#679 &#8211; Grief and Clutter &#8211; A Journey Through Loss and Letting Go

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Meet Our Guest

Lisa Woolery

After two decades as a public relations executive, Lisa was thrown into widowing without warning. Not ashamed of her many “hot messes,” she shares the challenges of rebuilding life after the desolation of losing her husband.

Lisa writes with grit, humor, and raw honesty so other widows know they don’t have to be perfect in the face of grief. In The Widow’s Comeback, she dives into money, abandonment, parenting tweens, dating, self-forgiveness, and faith—offering companionship and hope for the road ahead.

She lives in Kansas City, loving on her two teenagers while chasing after her three rapscallion dogs. For fun, she travels the world, plays pickleball, and reads in her cheetah-print recliner.

The Widow’s Comeback memoir and the companion 365-Day Grieving Calendar are her first books. Lisa is currently working on her first Widow’s Comeback comedic novel. Stay tuned.

Follow her journey at TheWidowsComeback.com or on Facebook and Instagram @TheWidowsComeback.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:08)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps every day to live with less clutter and more life. And I’m so excited to have one of my friends on the podcast. She’s never been here before, but we are talking about, it’s a hard topic, but it’s also gonna be a good topic today. ? the title that we’re working with is A Minimalist Journey Through Loss and Letting Go.

This is my friend Lisa Woolery. She recently wrote a book called The Widow’s Comeback. What if you knew you’d be okay? Lisa, welcome to the program.

Lisa Woolery (00:47)

Well, thanks for having me, Kathi. I’m really excited to be here. I just love your ministry and the work that you do.

Kathi Lipp (00:51)

Hmm

Well, and you’re part of that. You help, especially over on our writer’s side, and I’m so grateful for that. And we’ve already done some foreshadowing here about what this topic is going to be. ? You are widowed. And tell us just really briefly ? that portion of your story.

Lisa Woolery (01:14)

Yeah. Well, one day when I was 50, I was making dinner for my husband who was 53 and he died suddenly while I was chopping broccoli. I unsuccessfully gave him CPR and suddenly my life really was over because I had to figure out how to create a new life without him. And I had two tweens at the time.

Kathi Lipp (01:27)

Wow.

my goodness. It just unimaginable. And I will say that you do live with a lot of joy. I see that every single time I’m in a room with you, a zoom room or in a room physically with you, you do live with a lot of joy, which I’m sure at the time seemed impossible. And you had not only did you have grief, but you had a lot of really practical things to take care of.

And when we were talking about doing this podcast, you said that you’re more of a minimalist. I mean, I see in your house almost every single day. We’re on Zoom almost every single day. And I would never, ever think that you have a clutter problem. But maybe your husband was a little bit more on the cluttery side. Is that the impression I’m getting?

Lisa Woolery (02:35)

My husband was a beautiful, cluttery person. Yes.

Kathi Lipp (02:38)

Yes, they’re the best, right? This is why

we all marry them. And then we figure out, oh, no, oh, no, what have I done? But you guys were married for almost 30 years, you know, and very, very close. But your husband, you say was a little bit of a prepper. And you know, that’s close to my heart. I’ve written a book on prepping. But it sounds like maybe he was a little bit more extreme than I was.

Lisa Woolery (02:45)

Hahaha.

Hello.

Yeah, well, I think that, so my husband was a member of the NRA, lifelong gun owner, ? loved to shoot, hunt, these kinds of things. And then some new topic or hobby came about, which was called prepping. And it sort of…

Kathi Lipp (03:13)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Lisa Woolery (03:30)

it sort of fell into what my husband loved to do, which was to collect things and go like all out. Like I used to joke that Eric Woolery put in 100 % when he had a new hobby. And so when we were young in our marriage and had our first apartments, he immediately got the extra bedroom for his clutter. And then as our marriage grew and we became…

Kathi Lipp (03:41)

Right.

? got it.

Lisa Woolery (03:58)

better at our careers and made more money. We just bought bigger houses so he could have more space for his things. And ? I like to laugh and say that Eric Woolery died like eight months early because he missed COVID and all of the collecting of toilet paper and all of those things. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (04:15)

? He would have been proven right!

Yes. I, my big flex was when I went to Costco,

just as COVID was emerging, they’re like, you don’t need to buy toilet paper. I’m like, baby, I’m set. I’m good. Don’t you worry about Ms. Kathi. We’re good here. And yes, you know, I, first of all, I’m glad that you had whatever you needed in that time. ? you know, he probably would have looked at it like, Hey baby, look, I was taking good care of you.

Lisa Woolery (04:35)

Ha ha ha!

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (04:50)

I

made sure that you were prepared. So here’s my question. ? Was it a big point of contention? Was it a big point of frustration in your marriage? Tell me, unpack that for me.

Lisa Woolery (04:54)

You

Mm-hmm.

Well, we had two topics throughout our 28 year marriage that we never resolved. One was junk food. One was clutter. And so we, like I said, we managed it by having more rooms and, and we had an agreement that the house was mine to keep neat and tidy and his rooms were his to do what he wanted. And so, ?

Kathi Lipp (05:10)

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Woolery (05:32)

That’s kind of how we dealt with that.

Kathi Lipp (05:34)

You know, and it’s really interesting. ? That is pretty much the conclusion I’ve come to for a lot of people is that we may never resolve with our, it’s the people who have a lot of clutter and are not working on it that I know can be very, very frustrating. And so that clutter has to be contained behind the door or, you know, on shelves or something like that. So what you guys really did was,

You didn’t argue over stuff you agreed on space Yeah, and that is something that we really Preach here because you’re probably never going to change somebody else’s clutter personality But you can say hey, it’s important to me that I live in a house that I feel comfortable in and that means not having guns and ammo Because I we’ve talked a little bit about this

Lisa Woolery (06:08)

100%, yes.

you

Kathi Lipp (06:32)

He wasn’t just collecting toilet paper and food, right?

Lisa Woolery (06:35)

No,

When he died, we had in the basement of our 6,700 square foot house, he had these big rooms down there where he had his prepper things. And yeah, he liked guns. We had a joke. He never counted my shoes. I never counted his guns. And when he died, actually our estate was frozen for three months.

Kathi Lipp (06:46)

Wow.

Yes.

Lisa Woolery (07:04)

for an investigation and a delayed death certificate and some things. So luckily actually, because I sold his 74 guns and that allowed us to have food on the table and go on field trips with school, rent a violin and et cetera. So that was actually a little helpful. Yeah, yeah.

Kathi Lipp (07:04)

Hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, he was taking care of you from the beyond. He absolutely was. Yeah.

And guys, we know people have a lot of different feelings about guns. We’re just telling you what the actual story is. Yeah. I, I, have to understand, ? you know, a lot of people really draw a line in the sand and say, you know, I, I know what’s in these rooms. So you have to, you have to get rid of this stuff. And, but

That stuff made Eric very happy. ? I right? And it wasn’t a financial burden or was it? Okay.

Lisa Woolery (08:00)

Yeah.

It was not. And he

and he actually would invite the kids in he would take the kids to gun shows and they would buy MREs and all of these things and they would make bug out bags together. And he enjoyed it. It was his hobby. And that’s fine. I was fine with that.

Kathi Lipp (08:15)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

I wonder if he and I ever ran into each other at PrepperCon, because we did go one year in Utah. You know what, we’re going to take a little commercial break. And then when we come back, I want to talk about grieving, not just Eric, but the stuff and how you dealt with that, if there was resentment. And just giving us the non-cluttery person’s perspective about

you know, what we leave behind. And I think that that could be really helpful. We’re gonna take a quick break and we’ll come right back. Okay, friends, I am back with Lisa Woolery, The Widow’s Comeback, and we are talking, I’m sorry, I didn’t even get that into frame there. ? We are talking about the stuff that’s left behind when somebody you love is gone. And,

not only were you grieving, but you had a lot of practical things you had to take care of. And, you know, one of them was selling some of the things. Tell me some of the other things that, you know, you were left to deal with that some of us might not think of because I’ve never lost a spouse. I’ve lost my dad, but I haven’t. My mom is still with us. I’m so grateful. So I know that there are going to be big things I have to deal with that I didn’t have to deal with with the loss of my dad.

because, ? you know, and it’s a little bit different because than losing parents because that’s closing an entire estate, but you were still around. still had, you still had to live life even though your partner was gone.

Lisa Woolery (10:04)

Yeah. Well, I have a scene in my book where I wasn’t expecting this, but over the course of five days, five huge crates came from Southern California to my house in Kansas. We had lived in Kansas for nine months and he was ? working super commuting and his staff finally, a few months later, was probably six months later, packed up his stuff and sent it. And it was four very large crates.

Kathi Lipp (10:34)

my.

Lisa Woolery (10:34)

One day,

yeah, one day I looked out on to the front yard and my puppies were out there just tearing things up and there was just trash everywhere. And one of the crates had arrived and the puppies tore into it. And it was such a huge mess. I kenneled the dogs and I went outside and was just like the wind was blowing. I was trying to get a hold of all this stuff and I hadn’t yet been mad at Eric, but ?

Kathi Lipp (10:45)

Mm.

Lisa Woolery (11:03)

I was burning mad. Like I remember being out there just yelling you F F F. You leave me with this and I have to clean up more. When will it end? And I just had a horrendous meltdown in my front yard. I mean, I don’t know who saw or who heard or like I don’t even care. But ? so there was some anger.

Kathi Lipp (11:09)

Mmm.

Yeah.

Of course, of course.

Lisa Woolery (11:31)

in dealing with some of that stuff. And, you know, it was probably the resolution of all the fights that we had had about his stuff. But, you know, I cleaned it up, I dealt with it, and then I moved forward. And it was kind of empowering that I was allowed to choose what to do with this stuff. And I actually called my neighbor and said, all this stuff is here. I don’t want the kids to see it. And so she said,

Kathi Lipp (11:38)

Right.

Yeah.

Lisa Woolery (12:00)

put it all in your car, bring it down and I’ll put my trash cans up at the curb. And then I just threw it all out and I did that for four days. I did it for four days straight. The last day I took the last crate, I put it down in the basement in this kid room where they had their puzzles and sleeping bags and just put it in the back and thought, well, they can find that one day.

Kathi Lipp (12:07)

wow.

Okay, okay, so it was is a process of going through that I You know, I it’s such a weird question, but I’m gonna ask it anyway You know those of us who struggle with our clutter when we live with other people You know, they they get to share that burden What what do you wish Eric would have known? Maybe in the five years before he passed that would have helped you

it not only in the grieving process, but the going on process.

Lisa Woolery (12:57)

Well, I think that his prepper stuff is okay. Like it’s fine. I dealt with it. Like I loved the guy and I loved all of his silly, silly quirks. I mean, I would say that the things that I wish we would have prepared for better were ? like financial things. Like we never got around to finishing our ? estate because we couldn’t decide who the kids would go to. And he left a business loan.

Kathi Lipp (13:03)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Lisa Woolery (13:25)

? Just like some things like that. So I can’t even say it was clutter. Like I’m a good cleaner out or I’m not sentimental. I just threw it all away. Well, actually, I’ll say this. And for anybody who’s dealing with a cluttery prepper husband and gets to get rid of some of the stuff, I would like take pictures of these big barrels that you could put water in or just MREs. And I just put it up on Marketplace and I’d say,

Kathi Lipp (13:33)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Lisa Woolery (13:55)

prepper stuff, $100. And people would come to my house and they’d just take it away. And some of the guys would be like, are you sure I can take this? I feel like I’m leaving you in an unsafe position. And I would be like in my head, COVID happened. My husband died. What worse things am I going to have to live through where I’m going to need an MRE?

Kathi Lipp (13:56)

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, it’s so it’s so true you’ve already lived through the worst of it and Here we are and you know, I will always keep prepper stuff. Just I’m not an extensive prepper I’m a very practical prepper like I go through my stuff. We have lots of canned food. We’re good you know, we make sure that we have a ? Non-electric can opener so we can get into that food that kind of thing

Lisa Woolery (14:23)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:46)

? You say you’re not sentimental, but ? was there any struggle with getting rid of some of these things that Eric cared about? Or did you really from the start know this isn’t Eric, this is things he cared about. There are two different things. Like how did you rationalize all that?

Lisa Woolery (15:08)

Well, I didn’t feel sentimental about any of the prepper stuff. But when Eric first died, I took these two beautiful Tiffany boxes that we had that had had some large purchases that he had made for me. So like, I loved those boxes. And I took those boxes and I filled them with his personal items. ? And then I…

Kathi Lipp (15:28)

Mmm.

Lisa Woolery (15:31)

have them saved for my kids. They know when they graduate from college, they’re allowed to come in and choose. And occasionally, if they’re having a really hard time, I let them come in and choose things. But they’re like, so here’s, ? I’m holding up, I wear Eric’s watch every day. He had a lot of watches. He had a lot of, so many things. And so I was able to choose like some beautiful sentimental things. So I guess I am a little sentimental to keep. But then some of the other things like,

Kathi Lipp (15:41)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Lisa Woolery (16:01)

MREs were just junk to me. They weren’t, it wasn’t his beautiful watch or his personal things.

Kathi Lipp (16:07)

Guys,

MREs are like, ? no, that’s okay, packaged food that lasts a really long time, backpackers, preppers, know, astronauts, yes, yes, they all, MREs are something that they do. ? How did you decide what to keep and what to let go? I mean, okay, so the prepper stuff was easy, but then you get to his watches or…

Lisa Woolery (16:11)

? sorry.

Army guys.

Kathi Lipp (16:34)

You know some of the other thing and what did you how did you decide what I love that you created two boxes? For your kids for things that they could have I my kids are in their 30s and they still they still feel like mom I’m not settled enough to take Grandpa’s ring yet. Can you hold on to it? And I’m like, absolutely I’m not gonna hang on to a car for you, but I can hang on to grandpa’s ring. So how did you decide what to keep?

Was it about him? Was it about your relationship with him and the kids? Like, how did you go through that thought process?

Lisa Woolery (17:09)

Well, I went through when I was cleaning his things out and this was over some time. I would if I felt sentimental about it or I felt like, ? it’s Eric, then I would put it in the box. And that’s how I did it. But a year ago, we moved out of our six thousand seven square foot house with all of the things. And I took some time to get rid of things and.

Kathi Lipp (17:29)

Yeah.

Lisa Woolery (17:34)

I did what I told my kids was right sizing, like getting to the right size house for us. And I gave my kids each five boxes and I said, here is what you get to take to the new house. So when you’re packing, they were 15 and 16 at the time. Like here, you can put whatever you want in these boxes and that’s what we’re moving. Everything else.

Kathi Lipp (17:37)

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Woolery (18:02)

we’re throwing away or we’re going to give to people who need it like the goodwill. So and then I said, you know, if your five boxes fill and you still have some things, you know, come and talk to me and we’ll discuss it. And so my daughter did very well. My son, who is, I think, a little cluttery, ? had some trouble. So I went down and just had a session with him where I’m like, keep or throw out, keep or throw out, keep or throw out. And

Kathi Lipp (18:07)

Right, yeah.

Lisa Woolery (18:32)

that I could walk him through, why is this special? Do you feel something special about it? Or is this just something that’s been sitting around for a long time? Like, how do you feel dad in this? And so, yeah. So I feel like we did pretty well and there’s only been like maybe one or two things that the kids have asked about. Nothing. I haven’t missed anything.

Kathi Lipp (18:42)

Mm-hmm. What a great question. What a great question. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Woolery (19:01)

So

when they do say like, well, you didn’t bring that or something, then I’ll just say, I’m so sorry. Let’s just talk about it. And then we do. And then they can get mad at me if they want. And then we just move on.

Kathi Lipp (19:09)

Mm-hmm, yeah.

I love that. ? I love that you had them be part of the process. yeah, there are always going to be things, it’s never gonna go perfectly, right? It’s never going to be 100%, but we can say, we can gather these things and we can say, this is just a small representation of everything that he was to us. And these spark great memories. ?

I know you live in a pretty clutter free space. ? Does that make you miss Eric more Does it give you a sense of peace? how, how is it to not be surrounded by the stuff?

Lisa Woolery (20:00)

Well, I don’t do well with clutter. I can’t write if my space isn’t perfectly clear. So I feel very empowered in my new house. And I feel like it’s a fresh start. if, like right now, where I’m sitting in my living room in a chair, and I can just glance to my right a little bit and look at my bookshelves. I have these bookshelves.

Kathi Lipp (20:03)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Lisa Woolery (20:27)

Looking at the bookshelves on the very top shelf. I have five yearbooks Some of the yearbooks Eric and I shared because we were high school sweethearts. Some of them were his Before he knew me so I have those I look over on the shelf and I have his two pens sitting there and I have ? behind it like I have a beer stein with like pens in it and Behind it is the preppy handbook, which he loved in high school

Kathi Lipp (20:35)

Mmm.

Hahaha!

Lisa Woolery (20:57)

And so ? then I have like on the other side back here, I have a picture of us. And so I just have some little things around that I can look at or like my son signed some papers the other day and he used his dad’s pen. So ? he’s here. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (21:06)

Yeah.

? You’ve really curated it you’ve really

curated Eric around your house I love that for somebody who is going through a loss and They feel the need to keep everything because it feels like that’s how you honor the person What would be your advice? To somebody who is is really struggling with the the things left behind

Lisa Woolery (21:46)

Well, I can say for how I feel and everyone feels differently about clutter, but what I can say is you, like your loved one dies and then you have to start over. So how do you want to start over? What feels comfortable for you? Does it feel comfortable to have all this clutter around? Well, I don’t know what to say about that because I’m not a cluttery person, but for me having, and I love the word you used, having curated.

Kathi Lipp (22:09)

Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa Woolery (22:15)

the things that mean something to me about Eric and then moving forward feel really good. And ? I know that you talk a little bit about like making a video about something. I didn’t know that at the time, but I still like, this is going to make me like tear up a little bit. I remember when I got to Eric’s first briefcase because we like, he was so proud of that briefcase. He was the first person in his family to not be blue collar. And he was so proud of that.

Kathi Lipp (22:27)

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. ?

Lisa Woolery (22:44)

and he took it to his accounting job at Ernst & Winnie and like circa 1990 or something. And that was so hard for me to get rid of, but I knew that I had to, because it was old and janky and dust collecting. And so I took it to the trash can. It’s gonna make me cry a little bit. And I said to him, this was your beginning and we don’t need it anymore.

Kathi Lipp (22:48)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lisa Woolery (23:13)

And so I threw away a close to trash can and I went in and cried. But you know, like sometimes it’s hard, like it’s gonna make you cry and just, but kind of going through all of it helped my healing. And so now here I am in this new house, new neighborhood, new fresh start, some of Eric’s things and I can be happy.

Kathi Lipp (23:17)

Yeah.

Yeah. Right?

? What a great note to end on guys if you are interested in Lisa’s book it’s called the widow’s comeback. What if you knew you’d be okay? It’s Lisa Woolery Lisa. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today And thanks for letting us get to know Eric a little bit ? You know, they’re never truly gone as long as we keep their memories alive ? Friends

Lisa Woolery (23:55)

Well, thanks for inviting me.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (24:09)

? We’re gonna take a quick commercial break and we’re gonna come back and it is this week’s ? installment of things that have earned a place in my clutter free home. So stick with us and we’ll be right back.

Lisa Woolery (24:20)

You

Kathi Lipp (00:00)

Hey, welcome back. This is my favorite part of the show, the part where I talk about these clutter-free items that have earned a place in my home. And I’ve got Tonya Kubo on the line. And so Tonya, I’m very excited to talk to you about can openers. Yay!

Tonya Kubo (00:21)

Tell me more?

Kathi Lipp (00:23)

Okay, I’m sending you a link right now. It’s called the Kitchen Mama Auto Electric Can Opener. so I discovered this when I was going through some mobility issues. I overused my phone and my kids are all embarrassed. They’re like, mom, it’s too much TikTok. I’m like, I know, I know, babe. here’s the problem.

Tonya Kubo (00:27)

Kathi Lipp (00:50)

I had a real hard time with my right hand, which is not my dominant hand, but grasping things, holding things. And I saw this online. it’s a can opener that you put on top of the can and you hit a button and it spins around and does a clean cut of your can and without you even having to touch it.

Tonya Kubo (00:54)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:18)

It’s so great and can I tell you it’s not just a mobility thing but when I’m doing my chili which has a lot of cans in it I just sit that on top of the can push the button and it has to be seated properly it takes a second but it just spins around does it and I can open the can so if if a can opener is never anything you’ve thought about before

Tonya Kubo (01:27)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:46)

But I’ll tell you, there are more items in your kitchen that really take strong mobility than you might imagine. A salt grinder, a pepper grinder. And I bought one of these can operators for my mom and she’s like, Kathi, that seems a little ridiculous. And now if there was a fire, it would be one of the top five things she takes out.

Tonya Kubo (01:53)

Mm-hmm.

Well, you know, it’s funny is because I looked at I was like, that doesn’t look like anything. And they’re like, no, Tonya, really. But I mean, I’ve been a desk worker since college, which, you know, keyboards long before they ever knew what ergonomics was. So, yeah, my grip strength is terrible. So the idea. Yeah. But the idea that I could open cans.

Kathi Lipp (02:13)

Yeah.

Yes.

Right, so we have to work on our grip strength and do this. Yes. Yeah, this is

Tonya Kubo (02:35)

Cause my hand will cramp if I try to open three cans just to make chili, right? It’s like three cans of beans.

Kathi Lipp (02:39)

This is exactly where I’m

And I like this because one, a couple of things. It’s not electric. So in an emergency situation, you know, your power’s out, battery operated, you’re good to go. The other thing I like about it is, you know, we’ve all used or seen those electric can openers that sit on your counter. I don’t want an electric can opener on my counter. I just stick this in the drawer and I pull it back. It takes four batteries.

Tonya Kubo (02:52)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:09)

And it’s, I love it. I can’t even tell you, I love it so much. It can open any kind of can that you need it to. I have used it on soda cans that I lost a little tab on. So that was nice. And I just, yeah, so like I said, if it’s not a big deal for you, this may not be.

Tonya Kubo (03:27)

Ooh.

Kathi Lipp (03:35)

the things that have earned a place in my clutter free home, this may not be it for you. But if you have arthritis in your hands, ? if you’re careful with sharp edges. Now, one of the fun things was I was making chili when we had some friends over and their seven year old asked how they could help. And I’m like, you know, you can’t help fry the ground beef necessarily. Mom might not. And then I’m like,

Tonya Kubo (03:56)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (04:02)

you can open all the cans. And this was the most fun that seven year old had had in a really long time. And I wasn’t worried about it because all the edges are, they’re the non-sharp edges. And so that makes me super, yeah. So this is something that Abby would have no problem working with. regular can openers can be frustrating. And by the way, I know there’s a can opener where you lay it flat on top of the can.

Tonya Kubo (04:06)

Ha ha!

Mm-hmm.

Right, that’s so important.

Mm-hmm.

I have

Kathi Lipp (04:31)

And okay, can I, yes.

Tonya Kubo (04:31)

that. But my hand cramps because I just don’t have that dexterity and Abby has a hard time because her hands aren’t yet big enough.

Kathi Lipp (04:40)

Okay, see, and this would solve both of those. And can I tell you who this would make a great gift for? The lefty in your life. Because can, yeah, can openers are not designed for lefties. And as a lefty, yeah, yeah, exactly. So if anybody wants to buy a second one for me or Tonya, yeah, this is great. Go ahead, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (04:55)

No, no, fellow lefty here.

Yeah,

we’ll take it. I just have one very important question. What color do you have?

Kathi Lipp (05:09)

I have red because I live at the Red House, but ? mom has blue So that will never get them mixed up. There are different colors There’s just the plain white one if you’re more of a minimalist And there’s a green one now I am I am buying the turquoise one because the blue is kind of a turquoisey blue for our RV because everything in an RV is ? Is turquoise blue so that how what color would you order?

Tonya Kubo (05:10)

Okay, right.

Mmm.

Got it. Okay.

A blue. I was gonna order a blue. Cause it’ll stand out. I have a yellow kitchen and so I want to be able to like see it across the room.

Kathi Lipp (05:39)

Okay, yeah.

Yes, I love it. Okay, so by the way, if you’re into tinned fish, which everybody is these days, this also works on that. It opens like any weird can. So I love that for us. Yes. Okay, so the link will be in the show notes. Let me be honest, we get a little kickback. I think it’s probably gonna be a whole 40 cents from the $22 that you might spend.

Tonya Kubo (05:58)

Yay!

Ooh, I was gonna

say, I thought it would be like, you know, 2.8 cents. So, hey, 40 cents.

Kathi Lipp (06:17)

I don’t know,

I don’t know. Who knows, maybe this is the way I get rich, I don’t know. But I wanna be honest with you, but this is something that I personally use and love and wanted to share with you guys. So friends, thank you for listening to Clutter-Free Academy, I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter-free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#681 – Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

Aug 5, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and the creative genius, Tenille Register, as they explore the journey of embracing space over stuff to live a clutter-free life. In this episode, you'll discover Practical strategies for decluttering with purpose. How choosing space can lead to a...

#680 -From Overwhelmed to Organized: Transform Your Closet in 45 Minutes

Jul 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Is your closet causing you stress instead of bringing you joy? In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo share their proven system for creating a closet you'll actually love opening every day. What You'll Discover: How to set a clear vision...

#679 – Grief and Clutter – A Journey Through Loss and Letting Go

Jul 22, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Hard Stuff, Hope, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast, Relationships, Rest, Restore

Join Kathi as she has a conversation with Lisa Woolery who lost her husband Eric suddenly at age 50. Lisa faced an overwhelming reality: not only was she grieving the love of her life, but she also inherited his extensive collection that filled their 6,700 square foot...

#678 – The Great Laundry Debate: Sorting, Systems, and Space-Saving Secrets

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 15, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Podcast | 1 comment

#678 – The Great Laundry Debate: Sorting, Systems, and Space-Saving Secrets

Listen Now

Join Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo as they tackle the challenges and opportunities of laundry room organization. Explore the practical steps you can take to transform your laundry space from chaos to calm. In this episode, discover why your laundry room may be a hidden source of stress and how you can revamp it into a place of order and efficiency. Whether it’s optimal storage solutions, must-have products, or debunking the biggest laundry myths, Kathi and Tonya offer practical tips and insights to refresh your routine. This episode is your guide to a clutter-free laundry life, filled with humor, honesty, and hope. Don’t miss out on learning how to make laundry less of a chore and more of a breeze.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Meet Our Guest

Julie Ubbenga

Julia is a wife, a mom of five, and a minimalist-living coach. Julia is passionate about helping others live a more meaningful life with less stuff. See what she’s up to in her journey of simplifying and making space for what matters at her website.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:10)

Hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. I am here with Tonya Kubo and Tonya, we have a very deep topic today, one that people have big feelings about. We’ve recently done some laundry episodes, but I want to talk about the actual space ? where your laundry is. Now you and I have different spaces for our laundry.

? Yours is in the garage, right? Yeah, I lived for many, years with laundry in the garage. Can I just say it had some pros and cons. I wonder if it does for you as well. What are your feelings about laundry in the garage, your garage being your laundry room?

Tonya Kubo (00:42)

Correct.

? like this is the only time I’ve ever lived someplace where the laundry was in the garage. So ? I don’t have a lot of comparison. I don’t like it being outside of the house, but at the same time, it’s nice not to have the laundry pile inside the house.

Kathi Lipp (00:59)

Okay?

Yeah, I had it ? at one of my homes. Well, actually, growing up, it was outside in the garage. And then the first house I co-owned with my then husband, it was outside. And I liked it not being in the house, but I missed it being in the house. Yeah, OK. So that’s not helpful, I know. But ? yes, yes.

Tonya Kubo (01:40)

? I feel like that’s exactly how I feel.

Kathi Lipp (01:44)

It was just nice that, you know, we could put things out there. There was enough room for like a rolling rack so we could hang things. And my laundry room currently, which you have seen, is the smallest laundry room I’ve ever seen in my entire life. ? I think it was built for when laundry, when washing machines were much, they weren’t as deep. And so, ?

Tonya Kubo (01:50)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:09)

You have to kind of slide in there to do things, but you make what you make work, right? And so, yeah. So I recently, ? I like having my laundry space indoors now, especially since we live in such, it can be very, very cold here. And the laundry room can either be a stress zone or a streamlined system.

Tonya Kubo (02:15)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (02:36)

And so let’s spend some time to make it streamlined. Let’s make this happen. we just recently did a post over on my page about laundry where people had very strong opinions, very, very strong feelings. We will talk about that in this episode. So if you’re like, are they gonna talk about it? Yes, we are. But. ?

I want to talk about how we can make that space, no matter what your sorting system is, as streamlined as possible. So I think the most important thing, at least for me, that nothing that is, anything that has nothing to do with laundry has no place in the laundry room, unless you have one of those giant laundry rooms where you can also put in a StairMaster or something.

That has never been my situation. Mine has always been in closets or those kind of things. So you clear the clutter. You know what you need in there. You need things like your detergent, your fabric softener, your color catchers, which if you don’t know what a color catcher is, that’s part of the big discussion going on in Facebook. These are, I found out about these because my mom’s a quilter.

And before you use a fabric to quilt with, you need to wash it to get all the dyes out. But you don’t want that dark red going on to the white polka dot. So you put in, it’s a shout color catcher, and we’ll put that in here in the show notes. And that little piece of absorbs, or I guess it’s a piece of paper, absorbs all that dye. And so your things don’t get messed up.

If you like to wash dangerously like I do, which means mixing colors and things like that, that is a beautiful thing to have. You also want your dryer sheets, your stain removers. We use dryer balls, all that kind of stuff. ? Let go of old empty products. We just recently, okay, my mom said she told me about this like seven years ago and apparently I ignored her. We’re not supposed to use bleach in our septic system.

Tonya Kubo (04:56)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (04:56)

?

Because it eats the microbes and yeah, which totally makes sense So we don’t need bleach anymore. So I got that out of there now. I still have a bleach pen I will die with that bleach pen in my cold dead hand ? Because I love Yes, if you see me being buried without that bleach pen You go talk to Roger. Okay, cuz something so some something suspicious. All right and then

Tonya Kubo (04:59)

Mm-hmm.

Okay, good to know.

Kathi Lipp (05:26)

Also, I think it’s time, I’ll never forget this. When we first bought our first house and there was a coat closet, I thought, wait, I could have matching hangers in that coat closet? Because we had come from a tiny, tiny apartment. And I guess it wasn’t the first house I owned, but it was the first house that was kind of big and it was my first coat closet. And my mom’s like, yeah, go crazy. And I bought matching hangers. And there is just something.

about matching hangers for me. You too, Tonya, I can see you nodding.

Tonya Kubo (05:59)

Oh yeah,

no, think, well, maybe not everybody, but yes, matching hangers, I feel like everything just is so much easier to like fit when all, cause all the hangers are the same size, the same length, all of that, that’s part of the matching piece. I love

Kathi Lipp (06:09)

Yes.

Yes, so Roger has white plastic hangers and I have the black velvet covered hangers because those velvet ones skeeve him out and the white ones my clothes fall off on them because all of his shirts are the button-up collar so like we just know what works for us so get rid of anything that it that you don’t need in there hangers baskets

Tonya Kubo (06:27)

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:43)

Laundry gadgets that you thought were going to solve all your problems and they just took up space and then I want you to think about Zones, this is step two. So do you need ? if you’re a sorter? Do you need different bins for maybe whites darks delicates that kind of thing. We have cabinets over our washing machine and dryers so we have some things in there like our lingerie bags and the cleaning products and things like that.

? So you need a sorting zone or you know, I don’t really have space for that So our sorting zone is if we’re sort anything it’s gonna be up in Roger’s closet where we keep the dirty clothes ? Don’t worry. I store a lot of things for him ? the cleaning zone. So all the cleaning products together ? Folding zone again. Mine is too small. We don’t really have a space for folding out there. So this is our very sophisticated syndrome

system, we grab everything from the dryer that doesn’t need to be hung up and we put it on the couch for Moose to then lay in. Because this is one of her chief, chief ? gifts in life is being able to lay in warm clothes. Now, where do you fold?

Tonya Kubo (08:03)

On the bed, on our bed specifically.

Kathi Lipp (08:06)

Okay, okay. That’s a bit. Yes. And that works for you, right? Like what other space are you going to do?

Tonya Kubo (08:10)

Yeah,

yeah, we don’t have a lot of other space and Otto also appreciates a nice pile of clean laundry to lay in as well.

Kathi Lipp (08:17)

Mmm.

Okay,

so has is it Susu is that am I? The new kitten who’s by the way doing great, right? Yes Has Susu discovered the warm laundry pile yet?

Tonya Kubo (08:23)

Yeah, Susu’s the kitten.

Yes, yes, very, very healthy.

Yes, yes. you know, it’s funny is Otto even likes an empty laundry basket. Like they just like baskets. But yes, we we put the laundry on the bed and we just tip the basket over on the side. So it doesn’t topple off the bed because that is really upsetting. And then we came in and he was like tucked all the way in the back, just like perched like a king on top of the pile.

Kathi Lipp (08:40)

Yes, right.

Oh,

I love it. I love it so much. It makes me so happy. Also, you know, all of this may not be contained in your laundry room, but if you have a big laundry room, a hanging zone, so we do, we have little hooks all across and then we have another bar that has S hooks on it that we can use for drying things or hanging shirts, that kind of thing. So that’s been really, really helpful.

We also air dry a lot of our stuff. And so we have a bathroom right next to the laundry room. So I’ll often just hang things from hangers in that bathroom that works for us. And then an ironing zone. So we don’t iron a bunch of stuff. We have pretty much decided unless somebody is getting married or buried, we’re probably not wearing something that’s ironed. But we do have ? up in one of our

Tonya Kubo (09:47)

Hahaha

Kathi Lipp (09:53)

Extra bedrooms, we have an ironing board that kind of thing So I think the important thing is here It may not all be contained in your laundry room But you should have a system of where you are sorting your clothes where you’re keeping the cleaning supplies where you’re putting where you’re folding things Where you’re hanging things and where you’re ironing things if those are all part of your system ? Any any thoughts on that tonya anything that you would do differently or anything that you think about differently on that?

Tonya Kubo (10:23)

No, I think, you know, I mean, ultimately what you’re saying, Kathi is is it needs to function for you, for your family and for the space you have. Like you could never set up your laundry space like mine simply because you’ve got like this much space and like.

Kathi Lipp (10:42)

It’s a it’s

it’s the size of a half bathroom is our our whole laundry room.

Tonya Kubo (10:49)

? really? Is it that big? I feel like it’s much smaller than a half bathroom.

Kathi Lipp (10:51)

Okay, I was gonna say, I was gonna

say if that, yeah, yeah, it’s the size for a toilet in the sink. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (10:59)

Yeah, like, yeah, like

if you lived in Japan or in the downtown San Francisco. Yeah, super tiny, right? Whereas for, mean, like I don’t have a dedicated laundry room on one hand, but on the other hand, I have an entire garage and my washer and dryer set up against one wall. I could choose to make as much of that space my laundry room as I want.

Kathi Lipp (11:04)

Right, yes, it’s very tiny.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, absolutely. Just know what it is and make sure that everybody in the family knows what it is and then you can go. Okay, so number three, ? toss or store. So get rid of broken or mismatched laundry baskets. Store off-season items like heavy blankets or guest bedding in someplace else. know, make sure that…

Tonya Kubo (11:31)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:49)

You know, one of my fatal flaws is just leaving things on top of the dryer for way too long. I’ve been known to, I know, I’m the only one, right? And so just making sure that you’re making it as intentional and useful as possible. Don’t let things linger there. Okay, and then number four, make it manageable. ? you figure out how many loads you’re doing in a week and

Tonya Kubo (11:55)

What? What? No. Shh.

Yes!

Kathi Lipp (12:18)

Can you do one load a day? And I don’t sort my clothes, which is the big controversy. But one thing I do do, and it’s not sorting by colors, it’s sorting by textures, is I’ll do one load a week of things that I don’t wanna iron. Like all of Roger’s cotton shirts, my cotton shirts, cotton pants, that kind of thing. So. ?

Tonya Kubo (12:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:46)

But I will do that all at one space. So I will go and grab that out immediately. So there’s very little ironing to do. Now you have one person in your family who just does her own laundry. And so does she have a day of the week? What is that?

Tonya Kubo (12:59)

Mm-hmm.

Lily usually does her laundry on weekends, so either Saturday or Sunday, depending. But all of her clothes is like one load.

Kathi Lipp (13:12)

Right, right. And they’re mostly black, right? Yeah. Yes, I’ve met her. Yes. She’s a mini of my kids. Like, yeah, Kimberly ? and Amanda for a long time. Amanda, there was there used to be, I don’t know if there is anymore, a special detergent that’s just for black clothes. And yeah, so that was very important to Amanda for a very long time. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (13:15)

Yes, because you’ve met her.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:38)

We’re going to take a quick break and when we come back, we’re going to talk about organizing your laundry room and some ideas around that. So we’ll be right back.

Okay, friends, let’s talk about organizing this. Now, let me say between decluttering and organizing, let’s talk about a couple of things that maybe you should do. One thing is dust behind your dryer, especially. ? Get down there with a vacuum, really clean that out. Having a long, long reaching feather duster or ? one of those bristly brooms is a good thing.

And then also, if you haven’t done it in a while, cleaning out your dryer duct. So there are kits you can buy online or at Home Depot that is just a big snake to get down there because fires start this way and you should be cleaning that out either every six months or once a year, depending on how often you use it. But if your dryer is not functioning the way it should be, before you call a repairman,

Get that all cleaned out because you can have that so backed up that no air is flowing and it could be a real struggle and it causes a lot of dust in there. So give everything a good wipe down. Get a cleaner that you love. I have a combination of okay, I’m bougie. Let’s just be clear. I am super bougie. I love the smell of grapefruit. Don’t necessarily love the taste, love the smell. And so ?

I ordered Clorox wipes that are a grapefruit smell and I use the method cleaner that is that. So grabbing your roll of paper towels, giving everything a good wipe down, ? wiping the top of your washing machine. like the lid lifted but in there. And then also you should be washing the inside of your washing machine.

Tonya Kubo (15:19)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (15:44)

At least once every six months and so there’s a product for that. There’s a product for everything guys Of course there is I will put that in there, but you just want to clear that out now I’ve noticed also this may help one or two people out there ? When we back when we were using bleach like it wasn’t affecting anything ? It really damaged the top of our washing machine, and so I got some spray paint

that is for ? white enamel appliances. And I took some blue painter tape and I marked off all the things that I didn’t want that color and then laid an old towel across the tub so it didn’t get in there. And now you have to be willing to not use your washing machine for like a full day. But I sprayed that on there so it wouldn’t keep ? rusting and getting degraded. ?

? That’s something to think about with that, but clean that space really really well. You’re gonna feel so good ? And then this is the time to think about could I put some wall-mounted shelves or cabinets for storage in there if I need it a small rolling cart between the washer and dryer is a great like a slimline one ? Over-the-door racks for hanging items or storing cleaning supplies that those are some great ways to maximize space

I’ve also done, in one of my houses, we did an over the door shoe organizer for ? sorting. So we had some cleaning supplies in there, but I would also put things like single socks, that kind of thing. ? And then the next step, label everything. As I get older, I’m a bigger believer in…

marking it up like a kindergarten room and just labeling absolutely everything you need in there. ? And then installing hooks for things like if you’re keeping brooms or mops or reusable bags in there. And then I did something last year that ? I guess it’s been a couple of years now that I’m really glad I did. We’ve got those giant ? containers of laundry soap from Costco and they’re so

Tonya Kubo (18:06)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:08)

Heavy and for a while you knew that I had a problem with my thumb going all the way up to my shoulder and You trying to lift that thing was making me be in so much pain So I got these refillable jugs off of Amazon. I’ll put a link in there that are really cute and so I would put most of the soap in there and then I had a couple of leftover smaller containers soap containers and

and I would just fill that up. So it was like three containers, but I stored that, I could get rid of that giant container. None of these were super heavy and it just made everything look 10 % cuter and I’ll take 10%. So using clear jars or label container for things like detergent, dryer sheets, I have my dryer sheets in a little wooden crate. They’re not scented, so I’m not trying to keep the scent in them. They’re unscented.

Tonya Kubo (19:01)

Mm.

Kathi Lipp (19:04)

? has been really, really helpful. ? Anything you’ve done to make your space, I know probably in the garage you’re not so worried about cute, but anything you’ve done to make it more functional.

Tonya Kubo (19:14)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so we do have a hanging rack, right? Because certain things that we want to hang to dry. So we have a shelf that is over the washer and dryer. And so I like that a lot ? because it makes the laundry detergent, the dryer sheets and everything in easy access. And I keep a little tiny, it’s a very tiny trash can up there to put like the balls of lint.

Kathi Lipp (19:41)

Hmm,

guess.

Tonya Kubo (19:44)

I will share a cleaning tip. It’s a little weird, but I’m going to share it anyway. those of us like the one thing I will say that’s problematic about having your washer and dryer in the garage is you get a lot more dust than you would inside the house. But years ago, somebody had talked to me about taking the ball of lint out of the dryer trap and using that to clean off the top of the dryer because

Kathi Lipp (19:47)

Please.

yeah.

Interesting.

Tonya Kubo (20:08)

It takes

all the lint in the surface desk by static because there’s a bunch of static in there. And so I’ll do that to clean it off and then I wipe it down. But I don’t have like the balls of lint that collect once you get it wet. So that that’s my cleaning tip right there. That’s all I got for you folks. But it’s funny is it’s you know, it’s the only trash can in the whole house that actually doesn’t have trash. It’s just like very light because it just has lint balls in there.

Kathi Lipp (20:13)

Yeah!

Tonya Kubo (20:34)

But

it has been very helpful to us in terms of keeping the washer and the dryer a lot less dusty than they typically would be.

Kathi Lipp (20:42)

That’s nice.

I like that then you feel like you can actually use that surface. I love that so much Okay. Now let’s just talk about maintaining that area So you just got Tonya’s tip wipe down the washer and dryer regularly to prevent that dust buildup ? Clean out the lint trap after every load ? Kim had a roommate who didn’t know you were supposed to do that. She she went on vacation

Kim went on vacation and she comes back and she’s like, guys, this is a fire hazard. So I will tell you, if you take nothing else from this, clean out your vent, clean out your lint trap. Like, please, please, ? And regularly check behind the machines for stray socks or lint. ? We’ve gotten down there with like a flashlight just to see. And I will tell you, I…

Tonya Kubo (21:35)

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:42)

I’m not short, but I’m not tall. I’m a little bit taller than the average American woman. I’m 5’6″. And one of the things that’s really helped me is because washing machines now are built so they’re so, so deep. I keep a pair of barbecue tongs in the laundry room so I can reach that little tiny sock that’s all the way in the back. yeah, that’s…

I that has been very very helpful and I use that to grab things behind it and then Run that cleaning cycle on your washing machine with a wash cleaner. It really really does help Okay, so as we promised we’re talking about the link to the laundry post. So ? a few days ago I Admitted that I don’t sort my clothes and

People kept saying, can’t do that. They’re gonna become so dingy and so dark and your clothes are gonna be so gross. Okay, Tonya, have you ever seen me be dingy in my life? I am not a dingy person, okay? So I reject that in the name of Jesus Christ. now people have very, very big feelings. What were some of the reactions you saw, Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (22:43)

No. ?

Hahaha

you

But how I would sum it up is people have big feelings about laundry. And I think we see this a lot of times with our cluttery community, right? Is so many of us were raised in homes where there is a way, you know, there is the right way and then everything else is wrong and only idiots do it that way. And apparently like laundry brings that side out of everybody.

Kathi Lipp (23:17)

Yes.

It really does. It’s I hadn’t. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (23:24)

Because I have to,

I just want to tell you, Kathi like, I don’t actually care that much about what you do with your laundry, because you know what, I barely care about what I do with my laundry. But people, people are passionate about how other people do their laundry. That’s what I’m going to say.

Kathi Lipp (23:37)

Yes.

It’s really wild isn’t it? It’s very very wild. So here’s what I’ll say I’m gonna put a link to this in the show notes ? And I think I think you guys are going to enjoy reading that now right after I posted that because people were good I would say they’re getting heated but they were getting a little tiny some people were getting a little tiny judgy and Or they were saying, you know, could never do that. And so

Tonya Kubo (23:53)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (24:12)

This is how I’d like to reframe it for those of us who feel very religious about how we do laundry. If you are doing micro loads, like, you know, I my blues and my purples because, you know, that’s just that’s how I’ve always said and you are not overwhelmed by that. Go off you, you quiet queen. I love that for you. I love that you have so much calm in your life.

Tonya Kubo (24:28)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (24:41)

And I have never experienced that level of calm in my life. And so if you’re looking for ways to maybe change some things up, try washing dangerously. Like I have no problem. If I’ve got a new pair of jeans, I’m throwing a color catcher in there. And that color catcher is going to absorb that. Now, if you’re like, no, I’ve had these kinds of jeans before. They have such a dark dye.

They bleed for weeks. I don’t know why you would still buy those jeans, ? do what’s going to work for you. But that doesn’t mean just because it worked for your mom, it’s the best system. And so I want us to have laundry freedom, Tonya. This is really my siren call.

Tonya Kubo (25:25)

I’m just telling you, Kathi, we haven’t seen this level of controversy since I came out on this podcast about not using a top sheet in my bed. Do you remember that? Yeah, it’s okay.

Kathi Lipp (25:36)

Yeah, okay. I still have a little judgment for you. No, I know it’s very

European. I really do It’s okay. You know what? Here’s the thing Tonya, I never have to sleep in your bed Yeah, so it’s all good. It’s all good Yeah, when I did I will say when we were traveling to new york and we got an airbnb and there was no top sheet on it I I was like, yeah

Tonya Kubo (25:42)

Hahaha

You were like Tonya was

here first!

Kathi Lipp (26:06)

Yes, exactly. This is not for me. This is not for me. This is not for me. ? Okay, guys, we’re going to take a break and we’re going to come back and I’m going to talk about ? something that has earned a spot in my clutter free home. ? We are going to have such a great conversation with Julie Abenga. I never pronounce her name right. I never pronounce the same the twice.

But she said that that was fine. She has a new book called Declutter Your Heart and Your Home, How a Minimalist Life Yields Maximum Joy. And it’s such a great conversation. You’re gonna love it. Okay, so we will be right back.

Kathi Lipp (00:00)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life.

And guys, if you have been a listener to this podcast for any length of time, you know I am not a minimalist. You know that I might even be described by some people as a maximalist, but I’ve been able to take my maximalism, woo, if that’s even a word, and coexist with it in a joyful way. But I know some of you really desire to live a more minimalist life.

and have I got the guest for you. You guys, her name is Julia Ubbenga and she has this, you guys, it’s a fantastic new book, Declutter Your Heart and Your Home, How a Minimalist Life Yields Maximum Joy. guys, she is all about the joy. Julia, welcome to the podcast. We’re so grateful you’re here.

Julia Ubbenga (01:01)

Thank you, Kathi, It’s wonderful to be here talking with you today.

Kathi Lipp (01:04)

? Yeah, I, you know, like I told you before the show, we don’t have a lot of people on who are talking about decluttering because as a cluttering person, I love to collect other decluttering systems and things like that. But I could not get over your story. And so I’m just, I don’t know that I’ve ever just jumped in and said, hey, tell me your story. But that’s what I’m doing it today because your path to minimalism.

I feel like is really unique but also kind of universal in many ways in what you’ve gone through. So tell me more about that.

Julia Ubbenga (01:38)

Yeah, so I have not always been a minimalist. Pretty far from it actually. I’m an unlikely minimalist, you could say. And my story starts in childhood. I grew up close to my grandma and my grandma loved to shop. She would buy things whether she needed it or not. It was her love language to give people gifts, to give me gifts. And so we’d stroll the malls together and I I soon learned that shopping was fun. It was a way to feel good. It was a way not to feel bad to kind of cover up hard feelings.

And so I carried this mindset with me into my twenties. I started making money. I started spending money and pretty soon I had all this stuff and $40,000 worth of consumer debt. Yeah. So when I thought about this debt, I felt bad, but when I felt bad, I’d go buy something new because that’s what I thought would make me feel good and make me feel happy. And so this cycle, it continued up until the time our second daughter was born. And I was working outside the home as a speech language pathologist at the time.

Kathi Lipp (02:28)

You

Julia Ubbenga (02:37)

but I’d always wanted to stay home with our kids. So that was my dream to be a stay at home mom. And my husband got a promotion at the time and I could stay home. I was so excited, but I had this really idyllic vision of what stay at home mom life would be like. thought, yeah, I thought my daughters and I would be snuggled on the couch, reading Little House on the Prairie, would be giggling over tea parties. In my mind, it was just going to be great. Well, a couple of weeks into the stay at home mom gig, I would not even called myself a stay at home mom. I would have said,

Kathi Lipp (02:51)

right?

Julia Ubbenga (03:07)

A full-time stuff manager would have been a better title because Kathi, that is what I did. I was constantly looking for things and picking things up and cleaning things, tripping over things that I hadn’t picked up yet. It was just all consuming. was exhausted. I was stressed. I couldn’t really be present to the people around me. Like I was there, but I wasn’t really there as distracted and just, I was overwhelmed. So.

Kathi Lipp (03:13)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Julia Ubbenga (03:33)

A couple months into living this way, I was diagnosed with postpartum depression. And I remember this morning where I was up in the nursery in the recliner chair. I was feeding our baby and I was talking with God, really pleading with God. was like, God, what is going on here? This isn’t what I signed up for. Something needs to change. And I was reading the Bible and a couple of verses from Luke chapter 12. They just jumped off the page at me and they said, your life.

Kathi Lipp (03:39)

?

Julia Ubbenga (04:02)

does not consist of possessions, be rich in what matters. And so I paused right there and I asked myself, was I rich in what mattered? Was I rich in relationships, time for a faith life, time for hobbies that I loved? And no, the answer was absolutely not, I wasn’t. So that planted the seed that something in my life in the area of possessions needed to change. But I didn’t know what, I didn’t know where to go from there. And that same week, I had a therapy appointment.

And at the end of the session, just as I was leaving, the therapist said, Julia, have you ever heard of minimalism? I’m like, you mean houses with white walls and next to nothing in them. And she’s like, no, there’s more to it than that. Look into it. I think you might be interested. So I was curious and I did a Google search there in the car just right after the session and realized that there’s a lot of resources about minimalism. So I started reading books and blogs and listening to podcasts about it. And this idea.

that I didn’t need all this stuff to be happy. And in fact, I’d be a whole lot happier with less of it because then I’d have more time and energy to focus on who and what mattered. It was a mindset shift that was life-changing. And it finally gave me a vision of how to get out from under all this stress and anxiety that I was feeling at the time. So I went all in on minimalism. I started a blog at the time. I called it Rich in What Matters after the Bible verse that spoke to me.

And we let go of 75 % of our stuff over the course of the first year. And then we downsized to an apartment home and got rid of our consumer debt. We built our own intentionally smaller new home. And so yeah, we’ve been living as a minimalist family for six years now, and we have five kids ages 11, seven, four, three, and three months. And yeah, and now I have this book that I’ve written, Declutter Your Heart in Your Home, How a Minimalist Life Yields Maximum Joy.

Kathi Lipp (05:45)

Wow.

Julia Ubbenga (05:52)

Because I want to give other people the tools to live less stuff, to live a lighter life if they feel called to do that.

Kathi Lipp (06:00)

Okay, first of all, birthing a baby in a book at the same time, I give you major props, my friends. I think that there are a lot of people out there who say, this sounds amazing. To not be dealing with my stuff all the time, to not be shuffling it from one room to another, to not spend my entire life picking up and putting away and all of that.

Julia Ubbenga (06:06)

Thank you.

Kathi Lipp (06:26)

What does practical minimalism actually look like in everyday life? What can you give me like one or two practices or mindset shifts that have made the biggest impact for you?

Julia Ubbenga (06:39)

Yeah, that’s a great question. Well, I think that minimalism itself is misunderstood, that it’s about more than just your stuff. So if we’re talking mindset, minimalism is just a tool to live your life with intention. And so it’s about letting go of the things in your life that don’t matter, to make space in your life for the things that do matter. And that does apply to your possessions, but it also applies to your calendar commitments, to your self-talk thoughts, your thought patterns.

So it’s you’re constantly discerning what are you letting into your life? And then if it’s not supporting your life, it’s not aligned with your values, if it’s not serving you, you’re letting it go. And so practically this would look like keeping a calendar that doesn’t have half-hearted commitments on it. ? It would also just mean you’re constantly looking around at your things in your home wondering, this still serving me? Is this distracting me from my present life?

? you know, what matters to me from my kids, from my spouse, is it distracting me? Is it taking my time and my energy and attention? Or is it helping me better connect with them? So I think it’s really just you’re kind of the gatekeeper of your home and your world and just discerning what you let into it.

Kathi Lipp (07:49)

Yeah, I would say as I am on this journey, because it will always be a journey for me. I’m never going to be in a finished space, but this spot where I am more comfortable in my home than I’ve ever been before, but what I’m also noticing is, I don’t know that I’ll ever be a minimalist, but it’s the same questions. Is this still serving me? And I think we all have different levels of

Julia Ubbenga (07:56)

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (08:19)

the amount of stuff around us that makes us comfortable or more importantly uncomfortable at you know the the not disease like a sickness but the dis-ease in our lives because I feel like I’m being suffocated or I can’t find what I need. I would love to know from you what was the overwhelming feeling before you started on this minimalist path?

and contrast that with what does it feel like now. When you wake up in the morning and you look around, what was the feeling you had before and what is it now?

Julia Ubbenga (09:01)

That’s a great question. So I think that before minimalism when I’d wake up the more in the morning and look around I Felt like the home had the upper hand like I would look at a mess and I was like I have no idea when I am going to find the time to even start taking care of that and I would feel stressed and I would feel anxious even ? and So now when I look around and I see a mess definitely we have messes We have five kids, but I see the messes and they’re manageable. They’re easily tidied

Kathi Lipp (09:26)

Right.

Julia Ubbenga (09:30)

They don’t have the upper hand. don’t spark that same feeling of overwhelm in me. It’s more of a mindset shift of where, ? okay, there’s a mess there and I can take care of that in five minutes later when I’m done playing with my kids. And so, yeah, so it’s just this idea that you are feeling good in your home. You’re not overwhelmed by your home and that just helps you become more present to the people around you in your home.

Kathi Lipp (09:42)

Yeah.

Guys, even if your goal isn’t to be a minimalist, what I love about this book is it will help you develop a minimalist mindset that says, I don’t have to keep things out of fear, guilt, or shame. I don’t have to keep things because somebody gave them to me. And here’s what I love. You talk about your grandmother with such love and respect that you knew that that was her love language. And you can also say,

I received that from my grandmother, but I don’t have to carry it forward. And I love that. Julia, I would love, as we are wrapping up here, one or two practical things that somebody can do today to start developing this mindset. Is it a practice? ? What is it that would help somebody get started with this today?

Julia Ubbenga (10:49)

Well, a super practical thing that I love is just getting a quick decluttering win and going and clearing off the front of your fridge or maybe just keeping one or two of your favorite things on it. And the reason I say go tackle the front of your fridge is because there’s a study done at UCLA and in it they found that the average fridge in a home has 52 items on it. And there was a connection between the amount of stuff on a fridge and the amount of clutter in a home. So if your goal is to live a clutter free life,

then clear off that front of your fridge, something you see very often, and you’ll see that. And that can be a reminder that can help you shift your mindset that, hey, I am not gonna live in a cluttered home anymore. I see that clear fridge and I am going to live a clutter-free life.

Kathi Lipp (11:35)

Julia, I love that you and I referenced the same UCLA study. Have you read that book? I love that book so much. Guys, if you don’t know what we’re talking about, I can’t remember the name of the book. Maybe you do. ? If you don’t, it’s okay. I will put it in the show notes. But they went and lived basically with dozens and dozens of families to study clutter in homes around the LA area mostly.

Julia Ubbenga (11:40)

Yes, it’s a great one. Yes, I have it at home. Me too.

hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:06)

And ? first of all, if you read that book, you’re going to realize you are not weird, you are normal. I don’t care how much clutter you have in your home. If you are below hoarder, you are normal. But also talking about cortisone levels in women who live with a lot of stuff. And Julia, I know for me, and I can already tell from speaking with you that our cortisone levels changed as we decluttered.

I don’t have any scientific proof of that, but the feeling of not being on edge all the time is life changing, isn’t it?

Julia Ubbenga (12:40)

Yes.

It is life-changing. is. Yeah. I think the book is called life at home in the 21st century. Does that ring a bell? Yeah. It just came to me. Yeah. And it is such a life-changing experience to not being on, not to be on edge in your home all the time. And I think that actually makes your nervous system shift out of that fight or flight response that we get stuck in so much. And that has implications for our health, Kathi. mean, stress and nervous system dysregulation can lead to health problems. And so.

Kathi Lipp (12:49)

Yes, yes, yes, exactly. Yeah.

Julia Ubbenga (13:14)

It goes deeper than, yeah.

Kathi Lipp (13:14)

And

we discount those health dangers in women. We know about it for men, but heart disease and from stress is a huge factor for a lot of women. And so I love that we are having this conversation. And while you and I come at it from different levels, the heart is the same. We want you to be at peace in your home. And guys, ?

Julia Ubbenga (13:22)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:44)

? This is such a great read and it’s gonna be so if you found Julia inspirational and I know my listeners I know you found her inspirational today. You said I want a piece of that ? Guys, you know this segment things that have earned a space in my clutter free home And this book has declutter your heart and your home how to how a minimalist life yields maximum joy We’ll have a link in our show notes

Julia thanks for being on today. This this book is a treasure. I’m gonna read it again I’m gonna pass it along to a friend who I know also needs to hear your words. I’m so grateful for you today

Julia Ubbenga (14:23)

Thank you so much for having me on, Kathi. It was a fun conversation.

Kathi Lipp (14:26)

And friends, I’m just so grateful you’ve been here today. You’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter-free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#681 – Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

Aug 5, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and the creative genius, Tenille Register, as they explore the journey of embracing space over stuff to live a clutter-free life. In this episode, you'll discover Practical strategies for decluttering with purpose. How choosing space can lead to a...

#680 -From Overwhelmed to Organized: Transform Your Closet in 45 Minutes

Jul 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Is your closet causing you stress instead of bringing you joy? In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo share their proven system for creating a closet you'll actually love opening every day. What You'll Discover: How to set a clear vision...

#679 – Grief and Clutter – A Journey Through Loss and Letting Go

Jul 22, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Hard Stuff, Hope, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast, Relationships, Rest, Restore

Join Kathi as she has a conversation with Lisa Woolery who lost her husband Eric suddenly at age 50. Lisa faced an overwhelming reality: not only was she grieving the love of her life, but she also inherited his extensive collection that filled their 6,700 square foot...

#677 – The Secret to a Clutter-Free Laundry Routine

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 8, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Podcast, tips and ideas | 1 comment

#677 – The Secret to a Clutter-Free Laundry Routine

Listen Now

In this engaging episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and clutter comrade Tonya Kubo are back to tackle the ever-daunting task of laundry. For those feeling overwhelmed by never-ending laundry piles and chaos, this is your chance to reclaim a peaceful and organized home.

Kathi shares her newfound appreciation for a certain someone’s folding techniques and reveals how a few simple tools, like drawer dividers, can revolutionize your laundry routine. Plus, Tonya gives invaluable advice on managing allergy-friendly laundry needs and keeping the family clad and cheerful.

Listeners will come away with practical insights on evolving their laundry system, maintaining cleanliness, and battling tough stains with a magical secret weapon. Whether it’s finding joy in organizing or nurturing a household with faith, there’s something special for every laundry warrior ready for change.

Tune in and transform each laundry day from a dreaded chore to a manageable part of your daily rhythm!

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

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FYI: Some product links may be affiliate links. If you buy, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support!

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And we are back talking about that dirty business of laundry, and I am here with Tonya Kubo. ? Tonya, you’re gonna have some extra laundry because you just had a little adventure, didn’t you?

Tonya Kubo (00:31)

Yes,

I did, I did. We rescued a kitten and ? he is currently cuddled up in lot of dirty towels.

Kathi Lipp (00:39)

Well, you know what? And I bet he could not be happier. He has a safe place to rest and recover. Cause he was found in a couple of car engines. he is, he’s, I know it’s amazing. Well, you’ll have to keep us updated on this little bambino. So sweet. But let’s talk more about people laundry. So last time we talked about setting up a sustainable laundry routine.

Tonya Kubo (00:49)

Yes! I’m just so glad he didn’t get hurt!

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (01:06)

Today we’re focusing on keeping that system running smoothly with tips for folding sorting and keeping up when life gets chaotic. ? You know, when we had five adult bodies living at our house, ? the laundry was insane. It has died down a little bit. also don’t have people throwing clean clothes into the laundry. Also, I would say one of the things that has made the

biggest difference for us is on the back end, not having as many clothes. I don’t know why that happens. We’re not wearing less clothing. In fact, we insist on people wearing clothing here at the Red House. We’re big on that. But ? I know that we don’t let it get as piled up because we have our favorites. We like to wear them and we wear them over and over again. ?

Tonya Kubo (01:48)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:03)

How do you feel like laundry piles up at your house or is it pretty much is the dirty laundry contained in the the garage? Okay, hold on We’re gonna we’re gonna do some counseling here with Tonya. Like I just saw that look come over your face

Tonya Kubo (02:18)

Yeah,

well the thing is, is because I live with people, back to the past episode, they want to put all the dirty clothes on the floor. Like in their mind, clean clothes go in baskets, dirty clothes go on the floor. So the hallway tends to be where everybody wants to throw their dirty laundry. And I really don’t feel like it’s that much work to put it into a basket and walk it out to the garage. But I seem to be the only person who feels like that’s not a lot of work.

Kathi Lipp (02:44)

You

Tonya Kubo (02:47)

So yes, that is tough. Laundry does pile up. In fact, that is something we just had a conversation about that we’re solving this weekend. It’s you know, mom finally had to say this is not sustainable. If I have to take over laundry as I do everybody’s laundry, I will because this is very frustrating to me and I need a different system.

Kathi Lipp (02:48)

Yeah.

Hmm.

What the frustration is seeing all the dirty laundry everywhere or not having what you need or what?

Tonya Kubo (03:15)

Well, it’s the fact that I slip and fall on dirty laundry that’s left in the hallway, especially when I get up in the middle of the night. That’s okay. You know, Kathi, falling at 47 is a whole different ball game than falling when you’re like 11 years old.

Kathi Lipp (03:22)

No, not okay.

It’s a different thing.

my goodness. Yes. And you know what? We also want to be able to get back up. so, yes, absolutely. my goodness.

Tonya Kubo (03:33)

Mmm

Right. So that

that’s my main frustration. But the other thing is, and I think anybody who has kids understands, they get littler kids, right? They get very attached to a certain outfit. Like they get in their head, they’re going to wear this thing today and nothing else will do. And I’m like, well, then you really should have thought about that yesterday and made sure that thing was clean.

Kathi Lipp (03:42)

Yeah

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (04:07)

But I feel like if everything wasn’t on the floor, then it would be easier to establish a

Kathi Lipp (04:15)

Yeah, I agree. agree. you know, no, no, no, no, we’re a safe space here. And here’s the thing. We know that kids don’t think ahead. You know, most kids, there are some who do. There are some who plan their entire lives. Kimberly was one of those kids. But most kids are just living on a wing and a prayer. But it’s our goal to help raise them into good adults who can start to think ahead and can start to make these choices.

Tonya Kubo (04:18)

Thank you for letting me rant.

Kathi Lipp (04:44)

Especially you’re in such a busy time right now with your kids have a lot of extracurricular activities We don’t want to be fighting about Laundry. Okay, so I want to talk about folding and can I tell you why I resist folding I resist folding because then he comes the putting away and It’s just it’s it’s a hard thing and it’s gotten better since I have really organized my drawers But I also know ?

I’m going to say something that is going to shock and surprise you. ? Marie Kondo. I am adopting something that she talked about, which is not what I normally, not what you normally hear from me because I don’t really ? love her system for people who are cluttery. If you’re born organized, that system’s gonna work for you. But.

Tonya Kubo (05:22)

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

I would agree.

Kathi Lipp (05:41)

One thing that she advocated for, and I thought, well, that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. And I have now changed my ways. So I’m admitting I was wrong and I was judgy. And here we are. And we shall never speak of it again. But she has a folding technique where it’s not just like folding in half or folding into fourths. It’s folding so that you see kind of the, how do I want to describe this? The bump of the clothes is standing up. And so,

Tonya Kubo (06:09)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:11)

I have been using that for my sweatshirts and my sweats. I tried it one time, I don’t know, 15 years ago when all this was starting, I’m like, well, this is dumb. But what I’ve learned is my drawers needed dividers so that everything could kind of sit tight in there. And you know what? It really has made a difference. So.

Tonya Kubo (06:20)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (06:37)

? I needed more of an explanation back then for it to work. So I got these drawer dividers and I’ll put those in the show notes. But ? those have really made a difference in ? being able to ? pack things in there in a not overwhelming way, but in a tight way. I’m assuming that, well, you’ve told me your family doesn’t believe in folding clothes.

Tonya Kubo (07:01)

No, they don’t. only my stuff like my stuff. Brian, if he’s putting away clothes, he’ll just put it in the drawer. He doesn’t fold anything. ? I hang most of my things, though. Just we don’t have to argue about how it’s folded if I just hang it up.

Kathi Lipp (07:14)

Right, okay.

Yeah, ? if you resist folding like I do might I suggest pairing it with something that you love and let me tell you what I love I love crawling into bed with moose and watching something like Downton Abbey or something i’ve watched a hundred times and I fold but I don’t put away that night I fold and I stack everything and I put it back into the basket and then the next morning I’ll put it away and ?

Tonya Kubo (07:26)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:48)

But it’s getting done every single day and it makes me super super happy. I don’t have a I don’t have a laundry room that Allows for folding area like you kind of have to squeeze your way in there just to Do it so i’m either folding on my bed and putting it away Or I might be folding at lunchtime and then taking it upstairs and putting it away

Tonya Kubo (07:59)

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:16)

What is your folding method and area?

Tonya Kubo (08:18)

So

well Brian likes to dump the laundry on the bed and then fold from there right so that you have to put you have to fold and put away the clothes before you can go to sleep It’s not my favorite. I would rather do it in the living room, you know watching TV I do

Kathi Lipp (08:23)

Okay. ?

Yes.

No. Yeah, because you go to bed earlier than him, right?

Yeah, so that means you’re putting it away. That makes me sad for you.

Tonya Kubo (08:40)

I’m putting

it away or it’s getting shoved in a basket so I can go to bed. Neither of which actually makes me happy. But I would rather do it on the couch and just watch TV while I’m doing it. That would make me happy. But yeah, sometimes I’ll just play Spotify like podcast or music when I’m putting clothes away. You’re right though, it’s like pairing it with something fun makes a big difference.

Kathi Lipp (08:45)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm

and to come to find out that it really takes just about ten minutes to fold a load of laundry in my brain It takes 45 minutes, you know a business day, you know, like that’s what it takes. Yeah Okay, I want to talk about some realistic storage solutions. So we’ve talked about some of these in other ? Podcasts, but one thing for me that has been

Tonya Kubo (09:11)

It doesn’t feel like that.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:32)

Not life-changing, but laundry changing will say that are the honeycomb dividers that ? I keep my socks. So it looks like a honeycomb and it sits in your drawer ? and it’s just like little cubby holes for socks. And ? that has been, that has been really, really good for me. I mentioned the drawer dividers. Those have been, that’s been really helpful to really section off my drawers in a good way. And then, ?

Tonya Kubo (09:35)

Mm.

Kathi Lipp (10:02)

Something that’s been important for me, and I think it’s important for other people who live maybe more seasonally than you do in central California, is ? I have a winter wardrobe and I have a summer wardrobe. And yes, there’s some spring and fall that mixes over that, but we use clear ? storage boxes that we put up in our attic with things like ? heavy coats and winter boots and… ?

Pants tend to stay the same, but like big bulky sweaters. So not having everything in my closet all year round. When I lived in San Jose, I had everything in my closet all year round. And we had some snow stuff that we kept in the garage. But living so seasonally like we do, it’s just different here. Do you put anything away in a different area or is it pretty much everything altogether all the time?

Tonya Kubo (10:51)

Yeah.

Yeah, so I have under the bed storage and I put ? like formal wear, you know, because you use that once every other year. So that’s underneath the bed. And then I do put all the overcoats and ? big bulky sweaters. Those go underneath the bed during the summer months. And then that just frees up some more space in the closet.

Kathi Lipp (11:08)

Right?

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

I love it. Okay, we’re gonna take a quick commercial break and we’re gonna come back We’re gonna talk about maintaining your your system and troubleshooting But before we go to break, I just saw you check on the kitty everything good Okay, we’re all in this together Tonya I know you don’t have a name there are certain members of your household who don’t even know you have a new cat yet, but

Tonya Kubo (11:34)

Everything’s good.

Nobody

knows except for Brian.

Kathi Lipp (11:47)

This is amazing. I’m so excited. Okay, we’re gonna take a quick commercial break and we’ll be right back

Okay, guys, ? we want to talk about how do you maintain the system and maybe some troubleshooting along the way. ? One thing I like is I would say about once a month, I’m doing a laundry reset day. Like I am just gathering everything from everywhere. I’m also doing some of the things that maybe have been neglected. Right now, I am washing all the throw blankets in our house.

we have a lot of throw blankets. Roger’s like, do I smell? Why are you doing? I’m like, no, no, no, we’re gonna have company. I want everybody to have a fresh blankie, that kind of thing. So ? also that’s my day to match socks in case, you know, I just have a lingerie bag with ? extra socks and about every six months or so I just start over except for my Bamba socks. I’m still holding out hope that

Tonya Kubo (12:23)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

?

Kathi Lipp (12:51)

Someday we will find

those. ? And then something I do that I don’t know that other people do, but maybe they do, is I keep a stain treatment up in my bedroom. So yes, so if I’m getting undressed and there is spaghetti sauce on something, I’m spraying it then. So in case I forget to check everything as it’s going in, that has been.

Tonya Kubo (13:04)

Smart.

Kathi Lipp (13:17)

That’s been a game changer. What detergent do you use?

Tonya Kubo (13:21)

I use a super bougie powder detergent that I buy online. ? Both me and Lily are very allergic to anything you buy at the store. Even the Arm and Hammer Free and Clear, which they tell you you can wash cloth diapers in, we react to everything. So yeah, we spend a ridiculous amount of money on laundry detergent, but that’s what we do.

Kathi Lipp (13:28)

?

Really? Yeah. Yeah.

?

yeah,

that’s fascinating. Okay, I was gonna say we do tide free and clear because Roger also Roger is super sensitive to smell, especially it’s not so much the the rubbing up against him. It’s the smell that will make him sick. And so we just and ? it was really interesting. You know, I love the wire cutter podcast and that’s their number one recommendation.

Tonya Kubo (13:54)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:14)

I’m going to ask you after this podcast to go check the name of that because we’ll have other people here who can’t use detergents and are looking for something. ? So I want to, we’re going to take another quick commercial break. And when we come back, I’m going to give you a couple of recommendations of things that I use that are, I’m really, it’s one, but it’s changed my laundry life. So we’re going to take this quick commercial break and we’ll come right back.

Tonya Kubo (14:22)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:46)

Okay guys, this is the part of our podcast, things that have earned a place in my clutter free home. And so I’ve got it here on my desk and if you’re watching on video, you can see it here. It is called Miss Mouths, like mouth, messy eater stain treater. Okay, yes, Miss Mouths, messy eater stain treater. And this, I get it on Amazon, I’ll link it in there. ?

Tonya Kubo (15:04)

I’m writing that down.

Kathi Lipp (15:15)

This is it’s by the hate stains company. But this was developed for people to spray like on their child’s bib or when they got the baby food on there. You know what? It works for grown up food, too. And yeah. And so most of time I’m using just shout or something like that. But I’ve got this bottle of liquid gold that if I’ve got a stain either on something that’s really, really important to me.

Tonya Kubo (15:17)

Hahaha!

Mm-hmm.

I love that!

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (15:45)

Or something that’s been set in there like I forgot about it. I’m going to spray this on there and I’m going to let it Sit for at least 15 minutes, but this is the one I keep upstairs, too so if I need to ? if I need to treat it and let it set for a while and I have not thrown away a piece of clothing since owning this ? I am in deep mourning right now. You know, I I don’t know if you know this ?

I did my talk on the purple hoodie for day spring last year and they got us all purple hoodies. I got bleach on mine. Yeah, we are, and we’ve already tried to dye it once and there’s still a bleach stain on it. So I’m going and buying more. I’m very depressed about this. but it’s, I,

Tonya Kubo (16:16)

Mm-hmm.

Hmm

we try a purple Sharpie? Or is it not that

color purple?

Kathi Lipp (16:41)

It might be. I’ll try one on the inside and see how it looks. You know, at this point, it’s not going to get worse. It’s not going to get worse. So, yes.

Tonya Kubo (16:49)

Yeah. Can I ask a quick question? Would that get

would that stain remover get blood out? My poor girls, again, allergies, they get nosebleeds in the middle of the night, they will wake up and it looks like a murder scene.

Kathi Lipp (17:02)

Yes, so ? I know for blood you need an enzyme and I believe that this is an enzyme ? stain remover. So I would give it a try. You’re not going to waste your money if you buy this because it’s going to work for something else. ? Like I got it was on a white shirt and I got blueberry on it and I sprayed this on there and it got out.

Tonya Kubo (17:07)

Hmm.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:32)

So you will get your money’s worth. It’s not cheap, but it’s not crazy either. Okay, so this has been our two part series on laundry, because guys, we have to do it every single day, right? This is what we do. I mean, well, maybe we wear clothes every day. Hopefully we’re not doing laundry every day. But hopefully you’ve picked up at least one tip, because let’s be clear, clothing is expensive. Towels are expensive.

And so if we can save one item, that’s a beautiful thing. If you can have your favorite comfort shirt ready to wear when you need it. And guys, I’ve got a new favorite. I’ll take a picture of it. A new favorite comfort sweatshirt. It’s a squirrel rescue shirt from our friend Susie Flory. Her daughter designed it. And not only.

Does it have the best ? logo on the front? It has little squirrel paw prints on the back. It’s the cutest thing ever, Tonya. It’s the best shirt ever. And I need it to last for a million years. So laundry is very, very important to me because we’ve invested a lot in our clothes. We wanna keep them. ? this is gonna be my last suggestion. If you are feeling overrun by clothes, could you pack away half

Tonya Kubo (18:33)

? I want one!

Kathi Lipp (18:55)

quarter of the clothes in your closets in your drawers the ones you wear the least and see if you miss them and if you don’t that may be an idea to be able to say Donate some of those clothes so you don’t have because I just remember being overrun by clothes when my kids were younger and none of us

Tonya Kubo (19:18)

Thanks for having me, this was a great topic.

#681 – Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

Aug 5, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and the creative genius, Tenille Register, as they explore the journey of embracing space over stuff to live a clutter-free life. In this episode, you'll discover Practical strategies for decluttering with purpose. How choosing space can lead to a...

#680 -From Overwhelmed to Organized: Transform Your Closet in 45 Minutes

Jul 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Is your closet causing you stress instead of bringing you joy? In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo share their proven system for creating a closet you'll actually love opening every day. What You'll Discover: How to set a clear vision...

#679 – Grief and Clutter – A Journey Through Loss and Letting Go

Jul 22, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Hard Stuff, Hope, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast, Relationships, Rest, Restore

Join Kathi as she has a conversation with Lisa Woolery who lost her husband Eric suddenly at age 50. Lisa faced an overwhelming reality: not only was she grieving the love of her life, but she also inherited his extensive collection that filled their 6,700 square foot...

#676 – Laundry Trauma Therapy: Overcome the Never-Ending Chore

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 1, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Podcast, tips and ideas | 0 comments

#676 – Laundry Trauma Therapy: Overcome the Never-Ending Chore

Listen Now

Join Kathi Lipp and her clutter buddy, Tonya Kubo in a conversation focusing on practical steps to streamline laundry chaos for a clutter-free life. Listen in to the first of this two part series as Kathi dives into relatable laundry challenges and shares the systems that have transformed her household management. Whether you’re navigating mound-like heaps of clothing or finding yourself rewashing forgotten loads, this episode uncovers strategies to regain control over your laundry routine. Catch some tips for teaching kids to handle laundry, optimal sorting methods, and eco-friendly practices like drying clothes outdoors. A few handy laundry room accessories are highlighted, from shout color catchers to mesh bags, with essential tips like employing white vinegar to eliminate stale laundry odors. Tune in for a laugh, some encouragement, and solutions to make your laundry systems serve you, not the other way around.

Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:10)

Hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And guys, we are working on systems throughout this year. And one of the systems that has brought me the most red in my life is let’s all say it together, laundry. And I am so grateful to have Tonya Kubo here. Hey Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (00:34)

Hey, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (00:35)

Well, we are in very, because we’re in very different stages of the laundry life. ? You know, I, I’m in, I’m in delicate and you’re in heavy, you know, sleeping bag. Yes. Yes. And I remember those days well. And I think there are a couple of things that ? have given me laundry trauma in the past. ? A couple of things. One, it.

Tonya Kubo (00:41)

Yes.

Heavy duty.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:05)

It is such a stop and go kind of process. You wash, you dry, you fold, you put away, and it never ends. I’ll never forget, I know I’ve mentioned it on here before. One time, I think I was sick or something, and Roger took over laundry for like, I don’t know, like four or five days, and he was so excited that he got everything washed, folded, put away.

Tonya Kubo (01:23)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:32)

and then I took a shower and I put laundry in the hamper. He’s like, it’s not done anymore. I hate when people say welcome to my life, but if there was ever a time I was going to say it, that was going to be the day. Because yes, it’s thankless, it’s never ending. And ? you and I have talked about this before, the fact that my kids used to put folded clean laundry back into the dirty clothes.

Tonya Kubo (01:36)

Hmm. ?

Kathi Lipp (02:01)

made me understand why women go to jail. ? now you are not the main laundress in your house, correct?

Tonya Kubo (02:05)

Mm-hmm.

Correct, not at this time, right? We shift depending on work schedules and availability and all of that. But yeah, at this point in time, Brian is the main launderer of the home. ? He has very specific ideas of how clothes should be washed. ? Whereas I more have specific ideas of the whole process.

Kathi Lipp (02:35)

Yes. Yeah. So is he does he do smaller loads because all the the certain colors go together or something like that?

Tonya Kubo (02:44)

No, he doesn’t do smaller loads. ? It’s more about what outfits should be available on which days.

Kathi Lipp (02:52)

? interesting, okay.

Tonya Kubo (02:54)

Right?

So it’s like, you know, he knows what he wants to wear for work. And so he knows what day the work clothes need to get washed. He also has a better read on like when the towels need to get washed based on the certain people who take two showers a day, the people who take one shower every time they get forced to take a shower and everybody else who falls in between.

Kathi Lipp (03:16)

Yes. Okay. So according to you, not Brian, we’re leaving Brian out of this right now. But according to you, what is the most painful thing about laundry in your house?

Tonya Kubo (03:21)

Okay.

So the most painful thing about laundry in my house is that everybody aside from me likes to live out of baskets. And I get mixed up and I’ll own this, right? I can never tell the clean basket from the dirty basket. They all know the clean basket from the dirty basket, but I don’t. And so I end up putting dirty laundry on top of clean laundry. Now the rest of them will tell you dirty laundry belongs in a pile on the floor. Duh.

Kathi Lipp (03:45)

Right.

Mercy, have mercy.

Tonya Kubo (03:58)

Only clean

clothes belong in baskets.

Kathi Lipp (04:01)

Yes. And if this was a different podcast, what they’d say is, well, your dirty clothes go into a colored basket and your clean clothes go into a, but that’s not, that’s not the vibe here. Like I don’t want 75 different baskets for the different stages. We have, we have two baskets because we, well, and that’s not because we have two people. have the basket that the dirty clothes has gone down in and then

Tonya Kubo (04:14)

No!

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (04:29)

that next basket goes in there. One is always on a different floor. But they’re transporting clean and dirty clothes. Yeah, for me, is, ? I think historically, and I feel like I’m doing better with this now, but it’s taken more work than I feel like it deserved, is putting things away. Like,

Tonya Kubo (04:35)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (04:56)

I don’t like to put things away because if my drawers are too full, I feel like I have conquered that for the most part, okay, we never bag on Brian around here because we love Brian. Brian is one of our favorite people. Brian is up there in the Cannon Halls.

Tonya Kubo (05:03)

Mm-hmm.

No, we love Brian. He does so much.

Kathi Lipp (05:16)

of good husbands like Roger. But I’m going to give you a pass today and tell me why his laundry system is insane. Now, first of all, he gets to have his own laundry system because he does the laundry. And you and I agree on that. The person who does the chore gets to do it. But I also believe in a minimum standard of care. And maybe you guys disagree on what the minimum standard of care is. So.

Tonya Kubo (05:28)

Mm-hmm. Yup.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:43)

If you could boss Brian around, how would you tell him to do laundry?

Tonya Kubo (05:47)

Well, I would tell him not to put a load in the wash if he doesn’t have the time or the energy to see it all the way through to putting it away.

Kathi Lipp (05:57)

? okay. Does it sometimes get stuck in the wash and start to smell and have to be redone? Not that that’s ever happened at my house. I don’t even know. I’ve just heard tell tales.

Tonya Kubo (06:03)

frequently.

Right, well, we have like, it’s a twofold problem. It’s not just the forgetful part. It’s the fact that our washer and dryer is in the garage and we live in the central Valley of California, which gets hotter than Hades in the summer. So it’s like, if you in our warmer months, if you don’t switch over that laundry by the end of the day, it will have already soured because it’s just baking in the washer.

Kathi Lipp (06:16)

Mmm, hot, yes.

Tonya, I happen to know that in the winter, I can leave things in the washing machine for up to 26 hours and it’s gonna be fine. In the summer, I have about 12 hours and then it has to be done again. Like I know this down to a science, I understand this. But yeah, and I hate when we have to re-wash things because it’s a waste of water, it’s a waste of soap, it’s a waste of time, it’s a waste of energy, blah, blah, blah.

Tonya Kubo (06:45)

Yeah

Yeah. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, so for me, it’s, mean, things get stuck in the wash. They get stuck in, they get left in the dryer, right? If there’s not a load behind it, oftentimes that last load gets stuck in the dryer. But more than anything, it’s just that the clothes get carried into the house and just left. And I would rather say, you know what, we’re only washing one load of laundry today, but that laundry is gonna make it from the washer to the dryer and from the dryer to being put in drawers or in the closet.

Kathi Lipp (07:00)

It makes me crazy.

Yeah, I agree. And I know that can’t happen every day for every household. But I think it takes if we all take a moment and say, OK, what is the part of this that’s driving us nuts? I think that that is really helpful to get us to some solution. Hopefully we’ll have ? we’ll have some ideas. Now, I also I am I like to laundry dangerously. ? I I.

Tonya Kubo (07:53)

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:55)

I don’t sort it into a ton of different loads. Like I wash nice shirts in one loads, whites in another, and then it’s pretty much just survival of the fittest for everything else. And I know people that would make them crazy. ? And so if you’re doing a lot of little loads, that can be exhausting too. Okay, we’re gonna take a quick commercial break and we’re gonna come back.

Tonya Kubo (08:07)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:21)

and we’re gonna come up with some ideas that might be able to help you actually get through your laundry. So stay with us.

Okay, friends, I want to talk about maybe a little bit of a mind shift when it comes to laundry. And this has been really, this has been helpful to me that we can look at laundry as a chore. Or what I’ve said is this is part of managing my life. Like if I want to have the clothes available that I want to have, then I need to this is part of my system. And one thing that has helped me

Now I have the luxury of working from home. Not everybody does. want so you have to find your own timing on this. But one thing I have started to do is I go downstairs at about nine thirty every day and I’m like, what do we need to push forward? So that may be starting ? a load of laundry. That may be throwing some dishes in the dishwasher. That may be pulling something out to defrost for dinner.

Like that has been so helpful to me. And then if I get the laundry started, either I’m starting the laundry first thing in the morning or at that nine, nine 30 timing, then at lunchtime I can throw things into the dryer and I’m downstairs. I can grab the shirts out that I don’t want to be wrinkled, that kind of thing. How often are you guys doing laundry time?

Tonya Kubo (09:56)

like two, three days a week.

Kathi Lipp (10:01)

Okay. that’s I find that very impressive that that’s all you’re doing. Because I feel like we’re doing so I I feel like there’s always something going on here at the house. And maybe that’s just because we’re Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (10:13)

Yeah.

I mean, for us, it’s, you we have to do towels. We don’t have enough towels, right, to only do towels once a week. So towels have to be washed twice a week. ? Lily does her own laundry, but all of her clothes are one load. That’s it. And so she does that once a week. And then, you know, for me, Brian and Abby, Brian likes to do three loads on a Saturday. Like that’s his ideal. That’s not my ideal.

Kathi Lipp (10:19)

Okay. ?

Okay.

Yeah. Okay. I see. So you’re doing multiple loads in a day necessary, you know, so to necessitate all that.

Tonya Kubo (10:49)

Yeah, we’re three loads. Like, Brian likes to knock out three loads in one day on the weekend for the next week. And then it’s usually two loads midweek.

Kathi Lipp (10:59)

Okay, okay. Yeah, okay. That seems reasonable. ? And you’re out in the garage. So you’ve got all your laundry stuff out there. Are you sorting before it goes to the garage? Are you sorting in the garage?

Tonya Kubo (11:13)

I would sort before it goes to the garage. Like I sort in the basket, right, that I carry out. But when the next person just dumps the basket out into a pile on the floor, they like to just pick from the pile and decide what they’re gonna make into each load. Except for Lily, because again, Lily does her own stuff, so it’s all in one basket.

Kathi Lipp (11:15)

You

Mm-hmm.

I have-

Yeah, I have to admit I’m a pile picker. am. Now here’s the thing though, right next to our laundry room is a bathroom that doesn’t have to be used. So I can just, I’ve got all this space. So that actually works for us. ? Does each member of your family have its own laundry basket?

Tonya Kubo (11:43)

Mm-hmm.

No, Lily has her own because she does her own laundry, but because all the other laundry gets done communally, we all just, well, and I have all white baskets.

Kathi Lipp (12:00)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, okay, that makes sense. Yeah. So guys, I wanted to give you just a couple of ideas of things that worked for me when I had kids at home and some of the things I still do. So one thing that has been very helpful to us is we have all white towels. Like all the towels in the house are white no matter what room they go into. And so that’s been very useful so that we’re not having to do smaller loads of different colored towels, that kind of thing.

Another thing that has been very, very helpful is if you have, especially new items of clothing, instead of like separating those out and doing things, there are things called shout color catchers and I’ll put a link to those. love, do you use those Tonya? Okay. I love them. Okay. Especially like if you’ve got new jeans or something like that or anything red, a new t-shirt.

Tonya Kubo (12:46)

Mmm, yeah.

I’ve heard of them, but I have yet to try them.

Kathi Lipp (13:03)

Anything that can bleed and Yeah, here’s also a tip if you use a color catcher and No, dye goes on to that color catcher. I’ve been known to use that color catcher multiple times So just a little tip from my household to you yours now. This is the other thing that I will say ? In the spirit of Lily and all of my kids teach your kids young how to do laundry

Tonya Kubo (13:04)

Like bleed?

Huh?

Kathi Lipp (13:32)

? What we did was we had one day assigned to each kid that they could do laundry on that day. So they would have to get up before school, get it started. But I didn’t touch anything on that day. And so we had three kids living at home at the same time. So say like Justin had Monday, Jeremy had Wednesday, and Kimberly had Thursday. That gave me Tuesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday to do the rest of the household.

Tonya Kubo (13:37)

Mm.

Kathi Lipp (14:02)

But they had to be done with it. They had to be done. And if they weren’t, ? I will admit to one time putting wet clothes on Justin’s bed because this maybe was the fifth time it had happened. ? I’m a nicer mom than that now, but yes. But here’s what I want to say about that is when Kimberly, and I’m sure I’ve told this story too, when Kimberly went to college, ?

Tonya Kubo (14:04)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:28)

Nobody on her floor knew how to do laundry. I was shocked and people paid her to teach them her how to do laundry. That was her side hustle her freshman year of college. I just love it. It was it’s hilarious. So it the sooner you can make your kids responsible for laundry, the better it’s going to pay off. At what point do you think Abby will start to take over her laundry?

Tonya Kubo (14:31)

Mm-hmm.

I don’t know because Lily was the one who came to us wanting to know, right? It was, yeah, she was 10 and ? she was just like, ? so now she asked to know how to wash and dry her work and I showed her and she was like, so could I just wash my own clothes? And I said, well, you don’t have to like mom can do that. And she was like, but could I? And she loved the control. And so she’s been washing her clothes ever since she was 10. When Abby turned 10, we tried that.

Kathi Lipp (14:58)

That’s right!

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (15:25)

Abby respectfully declined.

Kathi Lipp (15:27)

Yes.

You know what? And kids to have different capabilities. Absolutely. so, yeah, it took my boys longer to figure it out than Kimberly, who I think was, I think she was probably around 12 when she started. But I also had the rule growing up that ? if you were sick enough to stay home, but you were well enough to watch TV, you could fold clothes. And so.

Tonya Kubo (15:39)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

?

Kathi Lipp (15:58)

That’s how they earned, it was mostly price is, right? And cartoons at that point. Yeah, so that, I felt like that that was, my goodness, right? It’s the best thing ever. Okay, so a couple of other things, ? a couple of items that I wanna talk about that we’re going to use. But I think the most important thing, and we’re gonna talk a little bit about this in the next episode too, is ? why do we all fall down when it comes to putting clothes away?

Tonya Kubo (16:04)

I used to love the price is right when I was sick.

you

Kathi Lipp (16:28)

And

I think it’s just we have too many clothes for the drawers and the closets that we have. So we’re gonna talk a little bit about that too. When we come back, I’m gonna mention a couple of things that I love that helped me do laundry. These are things that have earned a place in my clutter free home. So give us a second, we’ll be right back.

Okay, guys, we are back and I just want to talk about a couple of items that I love for doing laundry. We again, live out in the country and our PG &E, which is our energy company, our bill is insane. I don’t know why we have been trying to figure this out for a really long time. And so one of the things I do, especially in the summer months is everything gets dried outside. And so I have…

a folding drying rack that it looks like butterfly wings to assert, or maybe fly wings is more like it. But it opens up, you can hang things from it. I’ll add a picture to our notes, but that has been incredibly helpful to us to be able to cut down on drying, especially in the summer. I don’t mind so much in the winter just because we like the heat in the house.

Tonya Kubo (17:47)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (17:49)

That has been incredibly helpful to me. Also, ? teach your kids young to use lingerie bags. So if they have sweaters, if their socks keep getting lost ? for delicate things like bras or sports bras, those kind of things, we love a good ? sweater bag or lingerie bag. I like a sweater bag because it’s really big and you can throw a bunch of things in it.

and Tonya, I’m gonna ask you in a second. Is there anything that you use that has been really really helpful when it comes to laundry? I’m gonna mention my third thing which is a Clorox bleach pit ? This has been really helpful for ? Just like random spots on towels and things like that. I just dab it on there I let it set for a little bit and then Throw it in with my whites and it takes care of every single stain

anything that you use that you really love.

Tonya Kubo (18:48)

I love, so I’m just gonna second the mesh bag. ? I have two. I also have one for clothes that do not go into the dryer.

Kathi Lipp (18:51)

Yes.

? okay.

Tonya Kubo (18:59)

So that’s my pro tip

because I’m not the person who does all the laundry all the time.

Kathi Lipp (19:03)

Okay, so what you’re doing is you’re putting whatever you don’t want to go into a dryer into a different colored lingerie bag. And so that’s Brian’s indication. Do not put this in the dryer. Okay, I just have to know what color is it?

Tonya Kubo (19:16)

Yes.

it’s like pink. mean, it was I got it at the dollar store, right? So our regular one is. Yeah, so we’ve got a pink one, we got a white one. ? I think before I had the pink one, I had a blue one. But the main thing is just do not dry this respectfully, of course. So that’s a big one for me. White vinegar. I know it sounds basic.

Kathi Lipp (19:21)

Yeah, I know, but I just think it’s fun to picture it.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (19:41)

But if you have a historical problem of leaving laundry in a little longer than it should be, know, once it gets mixed in with everything else, like your whole closet smells sour. So just, you know, going like a cup of vinegar in the wash, that just kind of solves all of it for us.

Kathi Lipp (19:51)

It’s so bad.

So wait, wait,

wait, hold on, hold on. ? This is a new tip for me. So you’ve left some clothes in there a little too long. And instead of re-washing them with soap, ? whatever your soap is, you’re just throwing vinegar in there and rinsing them and.

Tonya Kubo (20:07)

Mm-hmm.

So I do vinegar with the soap, what they say is, what I’ve heard, I do not know if this is true, but they say a lot of times if you rewash it with soap, the soap, like whatever residual stuff from the soap will lock in that smell.

Kathi Lipp (20:22)

Got it, okay.

? interesting.

Tonya Kubo (20:36)

So we do the vinegar and the vinegar seems to pull it out.

Kathi Lipp (20:38)

?

okay, that’s really good to know. Okay guys learning new things here every single day at clutter free Academy Okay, come back next week because we’re gonna cover folding storing and Maintaining a laundry system that works you’ve been listening to clutter free Academy I’m Kathi Lipp now go create the clutter free life. You’ve always wanted to live

#681 – Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

Aug 5, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and the creative genius, Tenille Register, as they explore the journey of embracing space over stuff to live a clutter-free life. In this episode, you'll discover Practical strategies for decluttering with purpose. How choosing space can lead to a...

#680 -From Overwhelmed to Organized: Transform Your Closet in 45 Minutes

Jul 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Is your closet causing you stress instead of bringing you joy? In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo share their proven system for creating a closet you'll actually love opening every day. What You'll Discover: How to set a clear vision...

#679 – Grief and Clutter – A Journey Through Loss and Letting Go

Jul 22, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Hard Stuff, Hope, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast, Relationships, Rest, Restore

Join Kathi as she has a conversation with Lisa Woolery who lost her husband Eric suddenly at age 50. Lisa faced an overwhelming reality: not only was she grieving the love of her life, but she also inherited his extensive collection that filled their 6,700 square foot...

#675 – Why Summer is the Perfect Time to Declutter

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jun 24, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Overwhelmed, Podcast | 0 comments

#675 – Why Summer is the Perfect Time to Declutter

Listen Now

In this engaging episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and her clutter comrade, Tonya Kubo, dive into why summer is the ideal time to declutter. As the days get longer, tackle those overwhelming clutter issues that seem impossible during the rest of the year. They share personal insights, practical strategies for overcoming sentimental and overwhelming clutter, and success stories from the Clutter Free for Life community. Whether you’re struggling with where to start or how to ensure everyone in the household is on the same page, Kathi and Tonya provide a wealth of support and encouragement. Plus, hear how Clutter Free for Life can help keep you on track with ongoing support and resources. Listen in and start your decluttering journey today.

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

FYI: Some product links may be affiliate links. If you buy, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support!

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Meet Our Guest

Rachael Adams

Rachael was once a stay-at-home who struggled to believe that her life was truly significant. She was told her work was important, but in a sea of mundane tasks, it certainly didn’t feel true.

But then, God started to work in her life.

She began to find fulfillment, significance, and purpose. Not because her circumstances changed, but because her heart did.

Now every week on her podcast, she shares the encouraging and inspiring stories of other women who are dedicated to living out their faith in God and believing their offering matters.

Find Rachael and what’s shes up to here!

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)

Hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my clutter comrade. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (00:24)

Hey Kathi!

Kathi Lipp (00:26)

Guys I Okay. So let me ask you this Tonya When do you attack your clutter most deeply? ? I have noticed that for me. I I have a little bit more bandwidth in the summer and When it gets really hot here, I don’t want to go outside So I try to find indoor projects like my my garage never gets decluttered in the summer, but every other room does

Tonya Kubo (00:53)

Mm.

Kathi Lipp (00:56)

So, but I, you and I live very different lives. So how about you?

Tonya Kubo (01:01)

Well, it’s the same for me, but for different reasons, right? So my kids are home during the summer and Brian, he teaches in June, but he doesn’t teach in July. And so we really do a deep dive on our decluttering when we’re both home, because as you know, we both have cluttery issues or cluttery habits, but they’re different cluttery habits, which means that we have a much bigger clutter issue. So I find it’s easier.

Kathi Lipp (01:16)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (01:28)

take a deeper dive when we’re both here so that we can both address our individual perspectives on clutter.

Kathi Lipp (01:34)

You know, I don’t know that I know the answer to this question, even after we’ve probably done at least 100 episodes together. ? But I don’t think I know the answer to this question. ? Did Brian grow up in cluttery circumstances or very neat? Or is this not something we should talk about? I don’t know.

Tonya Kubo (01:55)

So I’m not sure that Brian’s memories or perspectives on his upbringing would match outside perspectives. So Brian would tell you, no, he did not grow up in a cluttery environment at all. However, when he points to an area and says, well, this is how my house was growing up, I would label that area as clutter.

Kathi Lipp (02:08)

Mm-hmm.

Interesting. So, okay, not to be like, I don’t mean to have you laying on the couch analyzing, but when you say that you guys have different cluttery issues, how would you summarize that?

Tonya Kubo (02:29)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so, well, he’s much more of a sentimental clutter person than I am. And part of that is access, right? Because my mother was a hoarder, I don’t have very much stuff from my childhood, right? It rotted in her house. So I don’t have stuff from childhood. I don’t have stuff from middle school, right? He does, because his stuff was all kept in much better condition.

Kathi Lipp (02:38)

Mmm.

Right. Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (02:58)

So, and he is very attached to a lot of that stuff. Like he still has, he is the kid who did want all of his awards from grade school. Like we hear from our members, know, they’ve saved all this stuff for their kids and their kids didn’t want it. No, he did want it. He does enjoy having it. So he has a greater volume of sentimental clutter, or sentimental items, I should say, than I do. And both of us, you know, come from that time when printing pictures was very expensive.

Kathi Lipp (03:19)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (03:27)

So both of us hesitate to throw away printed pictures, even if they’re bad printed pictures, but back to Access, he has a much larger storage of printed photos than I do just because I didn’t have any. So he’s more sentimental. For me, my clutter, what I have discovered is much more about overwhelm.

Kathi Lipp (03:34)

Yeah.

Mmm, okay. So, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, how does that manifest?

Tonya Kubo (03:53)

So

for me, things just get out of hand when I’m working long hours, when we’re out of the house a lot and I’m not doing the daily maintenance. I do a lot of, just put this here for now and it piles up. But when I go to address that area, it’s not like, the area is up to my nose and I wanna keep the stuff that’s up to my mouth.

Kathi Lipp (04:06)

Mm-hmm.

Mm, okay.

Tonya Kubo (04:20)

Right? It’s like

when I go through the area that’s up to my nose, it’s all trash or recycling.

Kathi Lipp (04:25)

Yeah.

Okay. So now who in the family, because there’s one of these people in every family, who is the one who’s like, okay, that’s it. We’re cleaning everything out. We’re taking, you know, all weekend. Like, this is it. We’re going to do it. Is that either of you? No. Interesting.

Tonya Kubo (04:45)

No. No. Maybe that’s the problem.

Maybe we need that person in our house.

Kathi Lipp (04:55)

Maybe maybe you need to invite somebody else into you need a great aunt who’s gonna boss you around But you guys have done big decluttering projects before

Tonya Kubo (05:00)

you

Same we don’t, but there’s not one of us who is, I guess it’s my perception of the question, right? So neither of us are the type of people who say, that’s it, tomorrow we’re clearing the calendar and nobody is going to do anything except for this one thing. We are both people who will say, okay, this is out of hand, let’s look at the calendar, when would be a good day to tackle this? Okay, so for instance, Abby had a birthday party last Saturday.

Kathi Lipp (05:12)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (05:34)

And

Brian was just like, just so you know, while you and Abby are gone, I am going to be doing these decluttering projects. So text me when you’re on your way home so that I can wrap that up.

Kathi Lipp (05:43)

?

Oh, nice. Because I, I know that one of the how do I know you’re a cluttery person? That I’m going to attack this, it’s going to happen. And that way, our lives are going to get better. And I think one of the things that are, you know, especially people in our free group who haven’t really been through, let’s just call it our indoctrination, that’s the nicest way of saying it.

Tonya Kubo (06:06)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:19)

? They think if I can clean this out once it’s going to stay that way I’m going to be naturally motivated to keep up on it and you know, it was Cheri Gregory who said clutter is never one and done and I love that quote because I this is back when we were writing when I was wearing clutter free we were writing overwhelm ? You know, it’s never one and done. You have to you have to keep

up on this. And I know that a lot of our listeners are waiting for the perfect time to declutter. And I am going to be 58 in two days. Never once in my entire life is like, ? this is the perfect time that I am motivated. There is time on the calendar. I have energy. I have a plan. I know what to do. Like that has never once happened. And so

If your clutter keeps coming back, it’s really important to me that you understand ? that one, you are not broken and you maybe haven’t either had the right system or the right support or either. I think that much of our clutter battle is we are working, we feel like

This should be easy. We should know what we’re doing. We should, we should, we should. Or ? everybody in my family should be pulling in the same direction. We all want the same thing. I don’t think our families want the same thing. Oftentimes they want to be left alone so that they can be on their phone watching YouTube videos. Like that, that doesn’t sound like a half bad way of spending 45 minutes to me either. And so

For the people who don’t know how to do this naturally, which I think is very few of us, studies show that 60 % of women in the United States say clutter is an issue for them. Like it’s a big issue for them. ? For those of you who need that accountability, support, training, ? we do have a ? sale coming up.

Tonya Kubo (08:29)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:42)

for clutter free for life. And this this sales a little different. I well, it’s the end of an era. Let me just say that it’s an end of the era. Can you explain that Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (08:53)

Yeah, and the sale is actually going on right now. But the end of the era. Clutterfree for Life started back in 2019. It’s hard to believe. I feel like I was not alive before the pandemic. That is how I truly feel. I feel like I was born. I was birthed in the middle of the pandemic and my memory doesn’t go much farther back. and in 2020, you know, is when we because we piloted it and then

Kathi Lipp (09:09)

I understand.

Tonya Kubo (09:22)

Everybody was like, oh my gosh, this is awesome. And we’re like, right? Right. This is awesome. And you were like, hey, like we know stuff. This is good stuff. So in 2020, you know, we kind of settled on our pricing. And so it’s $299 a year, $24.99 a month. And then once a year, we put it on sale for $118. And so it’s been the sale price has been $118 a year every December since 2020. And unfortunately, nothing.

Kathi Lipp (09:30)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (09:51)

has stayed the same price since 2020. So yeah, so we’re gonna have to raise the price this year. And you know, I was the person who did the math and said, Kathi, we gotta do this. And you said, no, we don’t. And I said, but no, really. And you said, but no, really. And so where we’ve landed is…

Kathi Lipp (09:53)

I know. I know.

I just say, Roger and Tenneil

here’s the thing I know yes they do they do I’m a nice person but I also don’t want to drop the quality of the program and so it had to be either we raised the price a little bit or we dropped the quality a lot and I just wasn’t comfortable with that so here we are

Tonya Kubo (10:19)

Nobody needs to know that!

be real, right? You have made some, like in our internal discussions, you’ve made some really good points, right? Which is $118 a year as a sale price when it’s $299 the rest of the year, feels really, really good to our community, right? It’s a 60 % discount. That feels really good. ? The fact that we’ve only put it on sale

Kathi Lipp (10:53)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:01)

that deeply once a year allows people to plan and to budget and to look forward to the sale break. They get to make a very strategic, thoughtful decision. ? And when you shared that, all of us went, you know what? mean, because ultimately what you said is that’s all fine and good, but we can’t just drop that on people when they’ve been expecting a big 60 % off sale in December. And so what we’re doing is we’re honoring one last hurrah.

at $118 a year on sale right now.

Kathi Lipp (11:30)

Mm-hmm.

And let me tell you why I’m excited about this for summer because I do feel like Summer gives us some options that the rest of the year doesn’t When it comes to decluttering so first of all the days are longer. I don’t know about you Tonya Well, I do know a little bit about you in the winter. I want to be in bed at 430 like I I As it gets darker and I know you’re in early to bed not

necessarily early to sleep all the time, but early to bed. I was just on a podcast with Valerie Burton, who’s the psychologist, and I said, I love sleep. I think about like at, at, you know, 430 in the afternoon, thinking I can crawl into bed in three hours. Like, nothing brings me such joy to know that I can get into the sheets. I can have moose with me, I can have my book or my phone or my tea.

Like it just makes me so happy. But in the summer, I stay up later. We eat dinner later because we’re trying to take advantage of all the sunshine. And so, and I feel a little ridiculous going, getting into bed when it’s still bright, shiny out. But so I think we have longer times we can work with that energy. And then ? unless it’s getting too hot, we have better weather for dump runs, donation drop-offs.

Even a yard sale or two you can start planning those for as the summer is winding down and getting a little cooler I didn’t know this but I was looking at some statistics real recently and ? Thrift stores I would think that they’d get the most of their traffic around Christmas because you know two things made me think that one was because You know more people are dropping off after Christmas

Tonya Kubo (13:16)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:27)

So there would be a lot, and I think also people, some people shop secondhand for Christmas. But it turns out thrift stores get their highest amount of traffic in the summer. So you know that if you’re dropping things off, can take advantage of it. ? Kids and clutter. Now I don’t have kids living at home. I do have kids coming this weekend and I am not making them go through their stuff while they’re here because.

Tonya Kubo (13:32)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:54)

if TikTok has taught me anything is that kids will make fun of you if you try to make them go through their stuff when they’re home. So I’m like, I’m just gonna pitch it all. But your kids are home. Does that help or hurt? Or yes? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (14:09)

Yes.

But here’s what I will tell you. What I have discovered is it hurts if you don’t have a plan. Right. So part of the thing that I do, right, because I’m on this mission to not raise hoarders because my mom was a hoarder. Right. And I just don’t want that generational curse to be repeated. So we spent the month of May really setting expectations of what summer was going to look like. And Brian ? has been

Kathi Lipp (14:25)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (14:39)

And this is something we haven’t talked about. We should actually have an episode on this. But Brian has been listening to a lot of podcasts that have talked about people who lost their homes in the LA fires. And one thing that has really hit him is when people talk about what they don’t miss. And so, you know, back to his connections with sentimental clutter, it’s really got him thinking about everything very differently.

Kathi Lipp (14:49)

yeah.

Mmm, it’s so true.

Tonya Kubo (15:05)

And so, you we set some expectations with the girls. It’s like, okay, so we’re the house is not working for us right now. And we’re in a difference in phases. And you know this, we talked about this around Christmas time. know, Abby is 11 or she’ll be 11. And this is the year where at school they transitioned to chapter books only.

Kathi Lipp (15:28)

Mm, okay.

Tonya Kubo (15:29)

which means

we have now reached the stage where we don’t need picture books at home. And we’re not the kind of people that are saving books for our grandchildren. Almost all of the books we have in this house were hand-me-downs from other people whose kids had graduated out of them. So we’re seeing that now as she’s shifting, she’ll be in fifth grade, there’s a lot of those childhood toys and things that we don’t need to have anymore. And so we just set the stage, this is gonna be a great time for us to sort of switch up the house

Kathi Lipp (15:33)

Mm-hmm.

No.

Hmm.

Tonya Kubo (15:58)

toward teenage years. And the girls were on board with that and they entered into summer knowing that they were going to have an active role.

Kathi Lipp (16:00)

Yeah.

love that reframing, giving them something to look forward to, to say, Hey, we’re growing out of this phase, let’s adjust our lives. Never really heard it talked about like that. And I think that’s really, really, that gives them something to look forward to, it helps them embrace a new phase in life. I love that. ? I think another thing is, you know, you may have some more time in summer, depending on what your family situation is.

but we also tend to have more time at home during the holidays. But holidays can be very triggering when it comes to clutter. It’s, don’t, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (16:42)

Can I talk about this, Kathi? Because I have been married to Mr. Kubo now for 16 years. And of those 16 years, he has been a teacher for roughly 13 of those years. And every year, the house, because the house gets kind of cuckoo in the fall, and it’s like November, it’s right after Thanksgiving break where he starts telling me how all we have to do is make it to winter break and he’s going to do all these things.

Kathi Lipp (16:45)

Of course you can!

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (17:11)

And let me just say that no teacher has any energy from winter break during winter break, right? Because that fall period is so insane for them. So I’ve spent a good 13 Christmases thinking that that was going to be a great time to get our house decluttered. It has never been a great time ever, ever.

Kathi Lipp (17:11)

Okay.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Right

and I think you know whether it’s a teacher or you’re just a civilian That it’s a tough time to try to think about that now I will say the one exception is I really do think after Christmas the idea of like a boxing day is a beautiful thing like Okay, I got you know these three new t-shirts are there six t-shirts I can get rid of now those kind of things. I think that’s wonderful, but

Tonya Kubo (17:41)

Mm-hmm.

yeah.

Kathi Lipp (18:00)

trying to create a deep declaim during the holidays just doesn’t seem very fabulous.

Tonya Kubo (18:05)

Mm-hmm.

Well, and that’s also part of it, Is going into the holidays, right? The days before Christmas kind of feels too late almost because you’ve got so much that’s coming into your home at that time, right? You’re bringing in more food for holiday prep. You’re buying decorations or gifts that you’re gonna give away. I mean, there’s just a lot of stuff that ends up piling up. ? So yeah, so I find that summer for us is just a little bit more relaxed.

Kathi Lipp (18:18)

Yes.

Yeah, I love that. Okay. And this is also a good chance to, I feel like, get prepped for fall. Fall feels like the beginning of the year to me, and then it’s just like vroom until, you know, after Christmas. And so if you can lay the foundation, I think that that’s really, really helpful. ? Okay, so we…

Tonya Kubo (18:53)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:02)

If you’re thinking about Clutter Free for Life, we have a couple of members who have made real changes. And Tonya, I’m going to ask you to talk about some of these people. Tell us a little bit about the journey of Jackie. ? You can either read or quote, or you can tell us what you know, but I would love to hear that.

Tonya Kubo (19:11)

Mm-hmm.

?

Oh, well, OK. So I will say this about everybody. So I will because I want to be like, oh, Jackie’s my favorite. But everybody is my favorite in one way or another way. But, you know, Jackie is somebody who believes very strongly in sustainability. And so because she believes so strongly in sustainability, she is one of those people who sees life in everything. And she hates seeing stuff go to landfills. And so that led her to sort of.

being this archivist of all things. And so, Jackie got to the point though where she did recognize she just didn’t have any more real estate. There was no more available space in her home. And she had been listening to the podcast for several years. And she admits that when she started listening to the podcast, she wasn’t so sure about the idea of just letting things land where they’re supposed to. That was something that you had mentioned years ago.

about you have to release things and just trust God will make sure that they get to the right place. She didn’t really have that level of trust. But then, after listening to the podcast for a while, she was just like, well, maybe, but she couldn’t quite figure out how. And so when she joined the program, she was pretty quiet. She didn’t really make herself known the first year or so, but a couple of years ago, we started talking and she really started decluttering in earnest. Now,

I will say when she started, she was so overwhelmed. She didn’t know where to start. Right. So part of it was just carving out a starting place. But, you know, just recently, I don’t have the exact number, but I want to say she got rid of like 1200 items in a week.

Kathi Lipp (20:59)

That’s incredible. It’s incredible. That’s amazing. And I know she is such a creative person. She does big, big projects, but still that, that is insane. I, I am so proud of the progress she went from not being able to have anybody over to her house now to being able to have people in her house without embarrassment. That that’s huge.

Tonya Kubo (21:01)

Like, weak, Kathi.

Well, she gets to have

her granddaughter there. That’s the big thing for her. That was her major motivation. That’s what pushed her over is wanting to be able to spend days with her granddaughter and feel like her granddaughter was safe.

Kathi Lipp (21:25)

Yes.

Yeah, because yeah, I mean, just as a potential grandparent at some point in my life, I know how unsafe my house is right now. My house is built for adults. So to get it over that threshold with the stuff and everything, that’s huge. Okay, tell me about Carrie.

Tonya Kubo (21:46)

Mm-hmm.

You should talk about Carrie. Carrie is delightful. Yes. So Carrie is somebody who, ? know, for them, they were living in kind of a smallish space, but they had storage units. And Carrie’s first step was to focus on the home, like on her actual home space where she lived. But then the monthly cost of the storage units started to eat at her.

Kathi Lipp (21:57)

I love Carrie. Yes, Carrie’s wonderful.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (22:22)

So last year, we worked together and she was able to release one of two storage units. Now the other storage unit, she’s discovered as a necessity. That’s housing some things that doesn’t make sense to have at the house, but they do need to keep. And so she released one whole storage unit, which was huge, but she has gotten, I think she is at 9,000 items in two years. And part of why we know this is because Carrie has such a heart.

Kathi Lipp (22:39)

Amazing.

That’s incredible.

Tonya Kubo (22:49)

for everybody and she’s so generous. She wants everybody to know the good, bad and ugly of her journey because she knows how helpful it was when people shared their struggles as well. And so part of why we have such a beautiful story with her is because she’s made it so transparent for us.

Kathi Lipp (22:55)

Mm hmm. Yeah.

She’s she’s so generous of heart. She really is and then Kathi not me But we have other good Kathi’s in our group We do have a lot of Kathi’s it’s a very 60s name. I’m assuming that’s where most of them come from. Yeah

Tonya Kubo (23:14)

Not you, Kathi ? we have actually a lot of Kathi’s in our group. It is a very, maybe,

maybe that’s it. So yeah, so, you know what I love about Kathi is she doesn’t quit. So Kathi is a founding member. So she’s been there for going on six years now. And…

She is the prime example of the person who’s like, this year is the year we’re gonna do it. And then life slaps her upside the head from every possible direction. And so she has been going like gangbusters and like, this is the year I’m finally making headway. And then something has happened and she has had to just change her focus for several months at a time. But the thing with Kathi is she never quits. She keeps moving forward. And what I love is she’ll reach out to me like, I won’t hear from her sometimes for six months, seven months.

Kathi Lipp (23:49)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (24:09)

And she’ll say, just want you to know I haven’t given up yet. And I just went through one box. It’s the only box I’ve been able to go through all month, but it’s a box that I’ve gone through. And for Kathi, you know, the big lesson that she has taught me, and I, you know, I don’t know what she would say that she has learned specifically, but the lesson that she has taught me is that community is everything.

Kathi Lipp (24:15)

Mmm.

Tonya Kubo (24:35)

because what has made an impact for her is initially after a period of not being able to focus on her clutter, she’s come back in and she’s just been very ashamed and apologetic with everybody. Like, I have no excuse. I’ve been part of this community since this long and why am I still dealing with this? And people would just be like, yeah, no, we get it. We have good days. We have bad days too, but we keep coming. And the fact that she would keep showing up. And so now she’s just like, you know what, what I love is I tell people,

Kathi Lipp (24:57)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (25:04)

that I’m embarrassed and all of them tell me all the reasons why I don’t need to be embarrassed and that automatically lifts me from the shame.

Kathi Lipp (25:12)

Mmm. Yeah, all three of these women and so many people in clutter free for life are just a gift and their encouragement and you know how I talk about Clutter free people are the meanest people in the world, but only to themselves ? We’re starting to lift some of that as well and people are being kinder to themselves, too Okay, so let me just tell you Clutter free for life is a very different group. It’s ongoing support ?

Tonya Kubo (25:28)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (25:39)

It is not a one and done, you take this one class and you’re done, no. And so every month we give you a monthly action plan that you can adapt to your season of life. We have weekly coaching calls. Now, ? let me just say, we have four a month. If it’s the fifth week of the month, there’s not a call. We just wanna give you that time back so you can go do something. But there are check-ins in this private community, so.

If this is a struggle for you to talk about, this is a really safe place. There’s a big library of resources. So if you’re struggling with something in particular, ? you can find the resource on that. And then every spring we have our Abundant Home Conference, which is amazing. And this year we’re offering something a little bit different. Some people are like, well, I need more one-on-one. So if you are interested in a…

coaching call with me. There’s an option for that. It’s an additional charge, but ? we want to help you if you need something that you need to talk over to break through. finally, the rate you join at, $118, is the rate you keep forever. So if you keep renewing, you’re going to be at $118 forever, even when we raise the price. ? We’re not going to offer this price again. And so if this is something you’re interested in, come check it out. ?

If you visit Kathi, so that’s k-a-t-h-i dot link slash c-f-l, and we’ll put that in the show notes. You can go sign up over there and ? we will be happy to answer all your questions. Tonya, did I miss anything?

Tonya Kubo (27:20)

No, you covered it all. ? and also, I mean, have awesome people. They’re just awesome. And you totally want to hang out with them.

Kathi Lipp (27:26)

The best the best the best the

best Okay, friends. We would love to see you in there It They’re favorite people in the world and they’ll be your favorite people in the world, too

Kathi Lipp (00:00)

Hey friends, welcome back to Clutterfree Academy and today I am thrilled to welcome a friend, fellow author, fellow podcaster. She’s all things amazing. Her name is Rachel Adams.

And we are welcoming her back to our things that have earned a place in my clutter free home segment. And let me tell you, this devotional has done it. ? This is her beautiful new book, Everyday Prayers for Love, learning to love God, others, and even yourself. Rachel, welcome to Clutter Free Academy.

Rachael Adams (00:33)

Well, Kathi, thank you. It’s an honor to be here. And I’m just thrilled that I’ve earned a spot in your clutter free home.

Kathi Lipp (00:39)

You know, so you guys let me tell you how what what my book like processes I was telling Rachel this earlier. Yes, I, I get sent a lot of books and a lot of them are not. I’m sure you do too as a podcaster and a lot of them are things that one I might not you know, I wouldn’t read and two, they’re not appropriate for the podcast. So I donate a lot of books.

Rachael Adams (00:56)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:06)

But when I find something I love, especially a devotional, and I’m pretty much a one-time devotional girl, that’s how I roll. And I don’t write in my books because, I don’t know, it’s something from being in fourth grade and getting yelled at for writing in a book. So I have my little journal, but I’m going through your devotional right now. And what I’m doing is I’m keeping notes in my journal. But then what I do is I either pass this on

Rachael Adams (01:21)

I’m

Kathi Lipp (01:36)

to somebody who comes to a retreat at our house. And I asked them, hey, if you like it, please share about it on social media because that’s the best way to say thank you to an author. Or I have a couple of friends who financially books are not, they’re a luxury, not a necessity. And so they are really grateful. So I’m excited to finish this up so I can give it on to somebody else. And you’re a tremendous writer. I just, I wanna.

talk to you about a moment that sparked this whole journey for you when you saw a love offering envelope at church. Can you talk a little bit about what that moment was and what it meant to you and how that kind of started you on this journey to this book?

Rachael Adams (02:21)

Well, thank you for spreading the love. So that’s what the whole message is about. So you’re doing it so well. So that really this happened about a decade ago. I attend a pretty traditional church and in front of me was a love offering envelope in the pew. And in that moment, I sense the Lord whispered to my heart, Rachel, you are my love offering. I’ve given you my love. And how are you going to give my love to the world around you?

Kathi Lipp (02:23)

Yes, exactly.

Hmm.

Rachael Adams (02:47)

And in essence, how are you going to live out the greatest commandment to love the Lord God with all of your heart, mind, soul, and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself? But I honestly struggle with some insecurity and inadequacy and endowed the gifts that God has given me and the talents that he’s given me. So in that moment, I thought, you know, I don’t know how I’m living out my faith in ordinary, everyday, practical ways. My life feels pretty insignificant, honestly. And am I doing this?

Kathi Lipp (02:53)

you

Rachael Adams (03:14)

And so I just started having conversations with family and friends and realized I wasn’t the only one struggling with this tension. And so one specific friend that I was having a conversation with, said, Rachel, it’d be neat to start to record these conversations. And so I thought, okay, so downloaded a free podcast app and seven years later, here I am. So there was no master plan. Well, the heavenly father’s master plan, maybe, but not mine, just one conversation at a time.

Kathi Lipp (03:20)

Yeah.

Bye.

Rachael Adams (03:42)

Gosh, it’s been a gift to get to have people like you on the show and ? just meet new friends and to be inspired by the ways that they’re living out their faith in their everyday lives.

Kathi Lipp (03:54)

There are a lot of devotionals on God’s love and I have read many of them. enjoy what why do you think this one is for right now? Because what one thing that you just said is you’re looking for ways to live out God’s love and I I’m sure there have been other times in my life in history but

I don’t know for something right now, it feels so critical. ? Not just because we want to show God’s love, but also because the world is in deep need. And so why this devotion? Why now? And how are some of the ways that you are seeing your readers live out that love?

Rachael Adams (04:43)

Yeah, for such a time as this, right? I really do believe it was timely when it released. We were right on the tails of the election. ? you know, just when the reality is we look around at our neighbors and we’re not going to always believe the same way or have the same morals or the same values or the same likes and preferences. And so, and to your point, the world needs God’s love. There are so many natural disasters. There are so many people far from Him.

Kathi Lipp (04:45)

Yeah

Rachael Adams (05:13)

And so I think every single person that we come into contact with has some kind of need. And we are God’s hands and feet. Some of Jesus’s last words were to love one another and that we would be known as His disciples by our love. So that should be our trait that people experience when they encounter us. And so I really do feel like this is a timely and a timeless message.

something that we want to live out. I pray that through these words, it just encourages people that not to overcomplicate what God intended to be simple. It really is just a smile, a hello, kind text, sharing a meal, an invitation. It’s in much smaller ways that we can make a significant impact than we think.

Kathi Lipp (05:54)

Yeah, you know, it’s so interesting. I am on the sermon team from my church that I went to several years ago. We’ve moved since then, but I zoom in as we do these days. And we were talking about a sermon about wise love and how do you love with wisdom. And I was talking about how I am frustrated with many of my neighbors right now.

Like my neighbors, not just the people who live close to me, but the people that I know I’m supposed to love. And I’ve, I have found the only antidote besides prayer is going out and serving. And I think you’re exactly right. Like going out and saying, how can I help my community? How can I reach out to my neighbor? How can I reach out to, you know, the, community around me? It’s, it’s the only thing.

that brings peace to my heart because my heart is not naturally peaceful and ? it is spending time with God in his word, talking with him, but then putting that into action. can’t just, and that’s what I love about your book. It’s not just theory. It’s deeply practical. Can you share a favorite example of how love moves from prayer into action?

one of your favorite examples in there.

Rachael Adams (07:21)

Well, I just want to echo what you were just saying that we want to be hearers, not just hearers of God’s Word, but doers of God’s Word. that James, like he talks about that faith without works is dead. And I think when you’re talking about even loving our enemies or those that feel unlovable, that’s what Jesus did. Think about how he had Judas as one of his disciples and he washed his feet. He was serving him right before he died on the cross for him too. That while we’re still sinners, Christ died for us.

Kathi Lipp (07:24)

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, right.

Rachael Adams (07:50)

So apart from prayer and the Holy Spirit residing in us as believers, there’s no way that we can live out this greatest commandment without Him. And so I think one of my favorite ways, it just comes honestly from 1 Corinthians 13, four through eight to love is patient, love is kind. doesn’t envy, it doesn’t boast, it doesn’t keep a record of wrongs, et cetera. And so I think that those little characteristics, it’s verb, it’s action, it’s not,

a feeling and so we’re not always going to feel loving towards the people around us, but we’re going to choose. And so to answer your question, not long ago, I had a lot of people in my home and tensions were high and I was just stressed out to be honest and I didn’t feel like serving in that moment and everybody else was just enjoying their time and I was kind of feeling just… ?

Kathi Lipp (08:33)

Yeah.

Rachael Adams (08:40)

grumpy for lack of a better word at my role that day. And so I ended up, I just felt like the Holy Spirit just was speaking to my heart. Rachel, how would love act in this situation? Love would be patient. Love would be kind. Love wouldn’t envy it, boast, it wouldn’t be easily angered, et cetera. And so I feel like that’s a way that we can kind of regroup ourselves and serve and love anyway, again, through the Holy Spirit and His empowerment.

Kathi Lipp (09:02)

Yeah.

Yeah, I yes like that attitude change because people can feel it in the room can’t they they can absolutely feel it in the room. Yeah, so ? When people come on and I say who the who is this book for and they say everybody I’m like, no, our books are not for everybody Who is the woman right now? Who who this book what like that it would meet them exactly where they are. What’s her?

Rachael Adams (09:12)

Yes. Yes.

Kathi Lipp (09:37)

What’s her struggle today?

Rachael Adams (09:40)

I think her struggle is that she feels unlovable. She needs to know that she’s beloved by the God of the universe, that he adores her and delights in her and treasures her apart from anything that she does. That’s the key. We first, we love because he first loved us. So we have to accept his love first before we have anything of value to give. So it’s the woman doubting her own lovability, if that’s even a word. And that’s me.

Kathi Lipp (10:06)

Yeah. ? I have been there.

Yes. Yeah. Okay. I have a really practical question. How do you find time to read? How do you find time in your daily life? Because I know we are all struggling and I can I just say I think I’ve gotten stupider. As we have done social media and I struggle with sitting down and finding time to read. So I always love to ask that it’s really practical. But how do you find that?

How do you carve it out and create a rhythm?

Rachael Adams (10:39)

So I actually don’t sit down to read. I walk and listen to books. I’ve been trying to, based on atomic habits, pair things that I love with things that I don’t necessarily love as much. And so I try to get in my 10,000 steps a day. And so to pass that time, I’m also listening to something that is filling my mind as I’m trying to move my body.

Kathi Lipp (10:42)

?

Yes. Okay, yes.

Rachael Adams (11:07)

Because in this season of my life, I don’t have much time to just sit and just savor a book. I’d love to, I love doing that, especially in the summer or on the beach or whatever, but ? it doesn’t, my life doesn’t always lend itself to that right now.

Kathi Lipp (11:07)

Okay, and.

Yeah. Yeah.

And guys, if you’re not familiar with the book, Atomic Habits, it’s about pairing, exactly what you said, pairing habits that come very naturally to you or very, so which is the one that you struggle with? Are you one of these people who’s like, I love my 10,000 steps a day, it makes me so happy? Or are you pairing the book that you love with the habit that’s hard? Which is the hard habit for you?

Rachael Adams (11:45)

The hard habit is the walk. I do enjoy it and I’m always glad that I did it, but an hour a day, if I’m not doing anything, if I’m not listening to anything or watching anything, it can feel, or if I’m not talking with a friend, it can feel long if I’m just in my own head for that long. And so I would say that the reading is the pleasure and the walk becomes a pleasure too, but I need the extra stimulation to make it the hour.

Kathi Lipp (11:47)

Okay, good. Yeah.

Yeah, my goodness, I can’t.

Right. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

It’s so hard.

Yeah, it’s so hard to get out there. Okay, guys, you can find everyday prayers for love. ? Everywhere. mean, everywhere books are sold. So your big retailers, your your Barnes and Noble, you can find it everywhere. ? Can you just sign us off with a word of encouragement for the woman listening today who is struggling to feel that love?

Rachael Adams (12:39)

Yeah, absolutely. I would say that God has always been in pursuit of mankind from the very beginning. When you think about Adam and Eve and when they sinned and fell short of the glory of God, what did he do? He said, where are you? And he pursued their hearts and pursued relationship with them. And so he’s done that from the very beginning. then he sent his son Jesus, then he sent the Holy Spirit, and he’s coming back again in pursuit.

Kathi Lipp (12:58)

Yeah.

Rachael Adams (13:06)

God is pursuing your heart and he wants to be pursued by you too. And so just be intentional with that. There is so much of his love that the world needs. And so the prayer for us is to help to introduce other people so that they can come to know the God who loves them and is pursuing them as well.

Kathi Lipp (13:27)

love it. Rachel Adams, Everyday Prayers for Love. Thank you so much for being here today, Rachel. I so appreciate you. ? you are love. You are love. And friends, you are loved. You know how much I love you. You have been listening to Clutterfree Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

Rachael Adams (13:35)

Thank you for making me feel loved, Kathi. I appreciate you having me on.

#681 – Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

Aug 5, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and the creative genius, Tenille Register, as they explore the journey of embracing space over stuff to live a clutter-free life. In this episode, you'll discover Practical strategies for decluttering with purpose. How choosing space can lead to a...

#680 -From Overwhelmed to Organized: Transform Your Closet in 45 Minutes

Jul 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Is your closet causing you stress instead of bringing you joy? In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo share their proven system for creating a closet you'll actually love opening every day. What You'll Discover: How to set a clear vision...

#679 – Grief and Clutter – A Journey Through Loss and Letting Go

Jul 22, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Hard Stuff, Hope, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast, Relationships, Rest, Restore

Join Kathi as she has a conversation with Lisa Woolery who lost her husband Eric suddenly at age 50. Lisa faced an overwhelming reality: not only was she grieving the love of her life, but she also inherited his extensive collection that filled their 6,700 square foot...

#674 – Low Buy July: 31 Days to Your Financial Reset

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jun 17, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Freedom, Low Buy July, Podcast | 0 comments

#674 – Low Buy July: 31 Days to Your Financial Reset

Listen Now

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo talk about why they’re moving from “No Buy July” to a gentler, grace-filled “Low Buy July.” If you’ve ever felt like buying toilet paper broke the rules or you’re just exhausted by all-or-nothing thinking, this conversation is for you.

They’ll cover:

The mindset behind Low Buy July and why it matters now more than ever

Four financial “levels” to help you decide what to do with the money you don’t spend

How a bug bite venom extractor earned its spot in Kathi’s house

What it means for something to truly earn a place in your life

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

FYI: Some product links may be affiliate links. If you buy, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support!

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:10)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with the queen of all things clutter. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (00:24)

Hey, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (00:26)

Okay, we, it’s my favorite holiday of the year that’s coming up. I’m so excited. I know for other people they’re looking forward to Independence Day or, know, I’m trying to think of other summery holidays, Memorial Day, those kind of things. But for me, it is a month long celebration of Low By July. It really is, it’s crazily one of my favorite times of year. ?

Tonya Kubo (00:32)

Yeah!

Kathi Lipp (00:55)

when we as a community over in Clutterfree Academy really look, now let’s be honest, for years it was called No by July. And that was a problem for people, wasn’t it, Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (01:06)

Mm-hmm.

Well, it was definitely, because our cluttery people, ? it’s really important to them that they do things right. And know by July felt really, really hard to get right.

Kathi Lipp (01:17)

Mm-hmm.

Yes, I’ll never forget. It must have been two years ago. One of our people on July 1st, they needed to repair their car and they like our whole month is gone now. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. You get to repair your car and you can still do low by. Well, at the time it was no by July, but it was it was stressful for them. You know, I ran out of milk. Well, we’d really like you to get milk.

Tonya Kubo (01:35)

No!

Kathi Lipp (01:50)

? You know, I know a lot of people there are a lot of boycotts going on right now and I was watching this ? one video where a guy was like I don’t know what to do because the only formula my baby likes the only place I can get it in my town is this certain store and I’m like go to the store go to the store, you know, yeah like

Tonya Kubo (02:09)

Well, exactly. ? my gosh, that’s

a whole different episode, but a good friend of mine and I, were having the same conversation because she was just like, you that’s easy for you to say when you live in certain areas, but it is difficult, right? Not everybody has the same choices. That’s just, it’s important to know that.

Kathi Lipp (02:25)

Exactly.

Right.

And I figure if I reduce things by 75 % and that’s still enough to make an impact and I feel the same thing for low by July. it’s real. OK, so this is not about restrictions. It’s about a reset. And I am the poster child for the reset because I

Tonya Kubo (02:38)

Mm-hmm.

definitely.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:58)

I get into bad habits during the year, you know, saving time. And it’s like, you know what? Time is not really my biggest constraint. Now, I would say time is a big constraint for you because you are running human beings all over the town. ? But you know, maybe energy is more of a constraint for me and less of a constraint for you. Like we all have our different constraints, but it’s very easy for me to fall into the habit of.

Tonya Kubo (02:59)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:24)

? This will take less time. So I’m just going to do something out of habit and I don’t want to live like that. I really don’t Yeah, I I want this is about a reset and do you approach it as a reset as well?

Tonya Kubo (03:30)

Mm-hmm.

yeah, mean, definitely. Even No-By-July was a reset for us. It was an opportunity to go, ? where has the spending incrementally, like little bits of overspending have become big bits of overspending. So for us, Low-By-July has always been the opportunity to eat out of the freezer to like minimize how much stuff we have in our outside freezer.

Kathi Lipp (03:57)

Right. Right.

Tonya Kubo (04:06)

It’s the opportunity to go, do we really need to go to the grocery store as often as we’re going? Because Kathi to your point, right, I’ve got kids in school. May and June is a gauntlet for us. And so it’s very easy, especially in the month of May, for us to go from eating out twice a month to suddenly eating out twice a week. And then by June, we are like overwhelmed by the amount of decisions we’ve had to make.

Kathi Lipp (04:13)

Right.

Ugh, yes.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (04:35)

And then it’s like, maybe we’ll just door dash. Like we don’t even have the energy to go to a restaurant. We’re just like, we’ll just have it come to us. And so in July, it’s a great opportunity to go, my gosh, we’ve got all this food in the freezer that we haven’t touched in a month or two. Let’s start going through all that. Let’s see what we can do. Let’s start reducing the spending. And it’s nice because we’re all home more. So it just makes sense for us.

Kathi Lipp (04:43)

Yes.

Yeah.

Well, and here’s something I’ve wondered, but I’ve never actually asked you about. I know with my kids, like when church would have a challenge or something, the kids would be on board. I could issue the same challenge as a parent and they’d be like, why do we need to do this? Like, is it easier for your kids to accept, we’re doing the clutter free thing, or does it make no difference to your children?

Tonya Kubo (05:06)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

You know, that’s funny is actually ? Lily used to get really upset over it. Like, why would you sign us up for this, mom? Like, that’s not nice. Why would you do this? And ? then Abby always struggled because her birthday is in July. So what I just make it about is we like look at like they’re old enough to though now they’re 10 and 15. So now it’s like we’ve got all this stuff at home.

Kathi Lipp (05:34)

? wow. Okay.

right.

Tonya Kubo (05:55)

And so what I do, there’s a big reward at the end. So we save like all the money that we save. We get to decide to do something fun with it. We’re not in that stage where we’re saving that money and we’re like, we have to pay off this big bill. We have to do this. We have to do that. We just get to do something fun. But then what they don’t realize is there’s things that I don’t start doing again in August and in September. And so while all my savings in July may go to some kind of reward,

Kathi Lipp (05:59)

Yeah.

Right. Yeah.

Hahaha

Tonya Kubo (06:24)

I’m still saving that amount in August and September and I get to use that to other things.

Kathi Lipp (06:27)

Yeah.

Yeah, you know, I love this because I what I feel like low by July does for me is Yes, it does save us money, but it just creates a breathing room You know in our house because there’s less stuff coming in our schedules and especially you know in those fine You know the day-to-day finances and Tonya I will say it is very comical when roger and I come home from town because we only go to town once a week, right and so

Tonya Kubo (06:57)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:59)

We unload the car. It looks like we’re going on a month vacation. I it does seem a little preposterous sometime Yeah Yeah, I

Tonya Kubo (07:05)

I get it though.

I used to live way out in

Boondockville at one point and yes, it is like that. It’s like you are moving is what it feels like.

Kathi Lipp (07:12)

? my goodness.

Yes, it really does. We have finally learned to get everything out of our car before we go to town because we’re going to fill up our, it’s a whole thing. Okay. So I think another thing that is going to be maybe a little different this year is I’m, I’m sure you feel the same, or at least you have people around you who feel the same. Finances feel different this year, at least for us. We are

Tonya Kubo (07:26)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:45)

We are looking at our 401k, there we go. And there’s been a lot going on in the market and stuff like that. If we were panicking, the thought that would be going through my mind is we have to delay retirement for three years now. Because that’s how much we’ve lost in our 401k. And I am not a reactionary, I know things are gonna go up again, but I think a lot of people…

Tonya Kubo (08:01)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:12)

who maybe don’t have a lot of cushion are feeling a lot of stress. Are you noticing that in your circles as well?

Tonya Kubo (08:17)

Mm-hmm.

Yes, I mean, it looks different in my circles, right? Like we all notice that things cost more right now. So in my circles, people aren’t bringing in less money necessarily. Like I know a few people who are public employees who, you know, downsized or whatever, but for the most part, they’re not bringing in less money, but the money isn’t going as far as it used to.

Kathi Lipp (08:28)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, we’ll just call it the egg index, right? It was ? our one of our neighbors brought us over a dozen eggs. Our chicken are not of laying age right now. ? They are up they are upstairs in the bathroom and they’re definitely of pooping age right now. And so ? we’ve yes, it’s not it’s not pleasant. But yes, the egg index, you know, not just because of the bird flu, but just you know, the cost of things are going up.

Tonya Kubo (08:48)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah

Mm-hmm.

Got it.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:13)

So I feel like this is coming at a great time. We’re putting this podcast out a couple of weeks early because we want you to be able to think through some of these things. Like Tonya was talking about plan to plan. Yeah, because your daughter has a birthday in July. So you do a lot of your planning in advance. And you know what? That’s really going to help out. So I want to come back and talk about how I think it’s so important to have a

Tonya Kubo (09:22)

It’s plan to plan. We want you to plan to plan.

Kathi Lipp (09:40)

goal for what you’re going to do with the money you save. And I’ve got some ideas for when we come back.

Tonya Kubo (09:41)

Mm-hmm.

Awesome.

Kathi Lipp (09:48)

Okay. Okay, friends, we are back. ? And I want to talk about you’re going to save some money in July because you’re not going to be buying extras. We will give you all the details in when you join us over at Clutterfree Academy in the Facebook in the Facebook, I was going to say the Facebook group, but it makes me sound like a 75 year no, let’s a 90 year old person when I say the Facebook. ?

Because I’ve got some very hip 75 year olds in my in my circle ? But I think it’s really important to go in with a goal and I know what you you just said that you’re you’re You’re talking to your family about saving for a treat, but Tonya that hasn’t always been your circumstance has it?

Tonya Kubo (10:29)

Mm-hmm.

No, no, there I mean there were circumstances. Well, I mean we were a single income household for quite a while and there’s just been times where we’ve had to do the cut back because we’ve had to do the cut

Kathi Lipp (10:47)

Yeah, so I want to talk about a few different ? areas that this could go to. Now for some people, it’s just going to be survival. Like I just need to make it through, you know, I’m just trying to get from paycheck to paycheck. I want you to consider this your learning lab month. This is your we’re going to all be there to support you.

We’re gonna be in the Facebook group talking about how we’re saving money, how to look at things differently. Maybe it’s time to cut out some subscriptions, but you’re gonna be there with people who are going to be able to cheer you on. Then there’s gonna be some people who are going to be like, we need to pay off a bill. Like there’s something that is hanging over our head. Maybe it’s a medical bill, maybe it’s a car loan. ? And if you have a few different things you’re paying off,

Maybe this is the month to start the snowball. I learned about the snowball from Amy Decision, the Tight Wad Gazette that back in the nineties, but I know a lot of people know about it because of Dave Ramsey. And that is just where you pay off one bill ? because you’re making the minimum payment on all these different bills. And you take what you were paying on that first bill. Once you get it paid off and you apply that to the second lowest bill and you do that until that’s paid off.

And I know that that has made a difference in my life and other people’s lives. So to think about that. Three could be an emergency fund. Maybe you need a little cushion for when a disaster happens. Tonya, as you know, Roger and I have had to start a protocol of rabies treatments. We’re fine. We’re 100 % fine.

Tonya Kubo (12:15)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:33)

But yeah, we had an encounter with a bat and it was the county recommendation was that we get this rabies protocol. And they called me yesterday and they said, your copay on this each is $2,100. How would you like to take care of that? And I’m like.

Tonya Kubo (12:55)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:56)

Do you really have a lot of people who are like, yes, here’s my $2,100. In our case, $4,200. Let’s just take after $1,000 at the ER. Like, I don’t know people, I don’t know a lot of people who can just whip that out. But even just having a small emergency fund, and this is what I’ve noticed with our kids, they keep a small emergency fund. So that extra copay at the dentist doesn’t become a crisis.

Tonya Kubo (13:24)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:27)

And so if you’re in that place where everything’s a crisis, because I have been there, a small emergency fund can be a great next step. And then the fourth thing is to start saving. Is there something that you’re saving for? Maybe it’s something fun. Maybe it’s something that you really need for your house. And then let’s put the fifth one in there with Tonya. It’s the party fund just for the month of July.

But

Tonya Kubo (13:50)

Yep.

Kathi Lipp (13:50)

you’re resetting those habits and those things. And I love that you’re doing that with your girls. I just love that. So what is your thing that you’re usually saving for that’s fun in the month of July?

Tonya Kubo (14:03)

?

Usually we take vacation and so we pre-save, but then we take the money that we save in July and we put that either toward like spending money for the vacation. ? Last year, just because of how things were working out, we actually put it toward our back to school shopping for the girls. Like it was their budget for back to school shopping. ? Because keep in mind, for you and me, Kathi, as moms,

Kathi Lipp (14:07)

? nice.

Mm, ? I love that.

Tonya Kubo (14:31)

That’s just stuff we have to pay for. But when you are 10 and 14, that is freedom you have never experienced in your life.

Kathi Lipp (14:34)

Right!

Well, am I remembering correctly that Abby was like weighing things back and forth like gold? that was it her or Lily when she had that cash that she was ? empowered with?

Tonya Kubo (14:53)

Yes, yes, that was Abby. Abby was really confused at how quarters could weigh more than dollars, but not be worth as much. That was a problem for her. It was very unfair, very unfair that she could have five pounds of small change and it was not worth the same amount as her dollars.

Kathi Lipp (15:04)

It was very unfair.

Yep. ? I totally get it, Abby. I am right there with you. OK, so Tonya, how do people join this challenge?

Tonya Kubo (15:20)

Yeah, so we’re going to do something that’s a little different is what we’re going to do. So what we are going to do this year is we are going to have it in the Clutterfree Academy Facebook group like we always do. Because in the month of July, this is a crossover with our private membership community Clutterfree for Life. But we are going to give folks an opportunity to sign up for Low By July emails.

Kathi Lipp (15:26)

Okay.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (15:48)

because what we have discovered is they forget to check in on the group, Kathi. And we’ve got some listeners who aren’t on Facebook, but they still wanna participate. And they’re not gonna get a ton of emails. It’s not like an email every day or anything. We’re just gonna give them like, you know, one, maybe two emails a week, just about the challenge. So this is gonna be different than the newsletter. We’re not gonna send it out to everybody, just the folks that appreciate that, but that’s what we’re gonna do.

Kathi Lipp (15:49)

?

yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I love that so much. Okay, and a couple of more practice and we’ll have that that link in the show notes. But if you just look for Kathi Lipp’s Clutterfree Academy and Facebook, you’ll find us. Don’t worry. You have to answer a couple of questions before you get into the group because we don’t want well, we like weird people, but we don’t like mean people. So no meanies.

Tonya Kubo (16:20)

Mm-hmm.

I don’t like spammy

weirdo bots in our group.

Kathi Lipp (16:37)

Nope, nope, we’re not doing that. So just a couple of practical things that might be helpful here. ? Inventory what you already have. Do I have enough deodorant to get me through July? That’s an important consideration. ? Do I need, you know, do I need to replace my toothbrush heads? Whatever it is, just take a little inventory. You don’t need to buy for the rest of your life. You just need to have enough to get you through July. that, and then, you know, if you’re like,

Tonya Kubo (16:49)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:06)

I don’t know that I wanna do everything. Maybe it’s just not buying clothes. Or maybe it’s just saying, okay, I’m going to eat through everything that I already have on hand. And then that way I don’t have to go to the grocery store as much. Or maybe say, I’m gonna just do $50 a week at the grocery store when you normally do 200. These are all things that you can do on your own. Any other last minute tips?

Tenneil (17:12)

the issues ?

Kathi Lipp (17:36)

Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (17:37)

I would just say if there, maybe just make a list of purchases you wanna think about whether you can get away with not doing in the month of July. So maybe there’s a subscription you have, maybe that you’re like, do I really need Audible or do I really need whatever? Just make a list and consider making July the month you try life out without.

Kathi Lipp (17:46)

you

I love it. Okay, guys, ? pop on over to the Facebook group. Join us before July because we’re going to be gearing up over there. And stay tuned because Tonya and I are going to talk about something that I have decided has earned a place in my house. And by the way, I love it so much. I forced it into Tonya’s house. Like I sent it to her because I knew she needed it so badly. Okay, we’ll be right back.

Kathi Lipp (00:01)

And we are back and this is one of my favorite parts of the podcast. We’re going to talk about things that have earned a place in my clutter free home. Now, some of you are going to be like, Kathi, we’re talking about low by July and why, why are we buying things? Okay. This is why guys, because my new favorite quote is cluttery people are the meanest people in the world, but only to themselves.

? I didn’t think you’d heard me say that yet, Tonya but isn’t it the truth, right?

friend, I’ve l-

Tonya Kubo (00:36)

Absolutely

so true, so true.

Kathi Lipp (00:39)

Yeah, it we are so hard on ourselves. So this is why we can no longer call it no by July because ? if you cracked a tooth, you wouldn’t go to the dentist or if you did go to the dentist, you would think you were a complete failure. So this is why it’s. Yeah, right.

Tonya Kubo (00:54)

No, that’s what it is. They think they’re

a complete failure for going to the dentist to fix their crack tooth.

Kathi Lipp (01:00)

Exactly during no by July. So that’s why we’re calling it low by July and Hey, you may not need this. So let me tell you don’t buy this but I need it and I I I forced my opinions on Tonya and Said you need this too. And so when I tell you you need something I’m not going to make you need it without getting it for you. So

But I was so convinced that this would change Tonya’s life that I sent her a couple ? post-haste. And it is called Bug Bite Thing. And if you’re watching online, I just held it up. And we’ll have, of course, a link in ? the podcast notes. But what this is, it’s like a plunger for Bug Bites. I don’t know how else to describe it.

Tonya Kubo (01:50)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:53)

So if you’re watching, just gonna, I’m gonna put this on here. Whoops, I’m doing it wrong. So say like I got a bug bite right here. This is great for people who are listening, by the way, as I’m describing this. But ? you’re gonna pull this up and it’s going to suck the saliva, the venom out of your bug bite. And I heard it explained, we just had a doctor here at the Red House.

And we were talking about bug bites and I’m like, okay, so is it true that everybody gets stung the same amount probably and some of us are just more allergic to it or are some of us sweeter? And she goes, it’s a combination of both. And I’m like, okay, well that was really interesting. And so I’ve got all the attractants and the allergies to it. Roger can get, I know that Roger gets bit so often because he’s outside way more than I am, but they don’t.

bug him as much as they do, but they bug me to death. And so you were even I think it was as early as April you were having mosquitoes.

Tonya Kubo (02:59)

Well,

and I had them on my face!

Kathi Lipp (03:02)

Right, which is not a cute look. You’re very cute, but that’s not a cute look. And so I’m like, I’ve got the thing. I’ve got the thing. Now I will tell you, Roger and I have had discussions about whether this is completely psychosomatic or not. And I was like, well, first of all, I don’t care because I’m still using it. And when I use it, it actually works. But I did a little research. ?

Tonya Kubo (03:18)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:30)

And the research shows that the body reacts to proteins or chemicals injected by insects like histamines or anti-collagra… wait.

Tonya Kubo (03:40)

Coagulants.

Kathi Lipp (03:42)

There we go. I’ll never be able to say that word. If you remove them early enough, you may interrupt the histamine, histamine, okay. Okay. Guys, these are words that I don’t use. C-A-S cascade, the histamine cascade. I know where the cascade is. Okay. Leading to less itching and swelling. When I read these notes, I’m like, I can say that. Apparently not. ? So suction devices have been used in wound care.

all sorts of things for a really, really long time. But there was a study in Germany that said, and I’m not even gonna try to pronounce the name of that newspaper, but it says that it’s tested a suction-based device for bug bites. It found that both reduced itch and swelling when used immediately. So take that, Roger Lipp.

Tonya Kubo (04:12)

Mm-hmm.

Well, I just feel like it’s a much more hygienic form of a leech.

Kathi Lipp (04:38)

Okay, wow, you just

Tonya Kubo (04:38)

We use leeches for a long time.

Kathi Lipp (04:44)

Leaches never even occurred to me Okay, but so here’s the thing if you’re hippie-dippy and you don’t like to use a lot of medicines This is probably really good for you ? and ? I will as soon as I notice that something is swelling on me. I go in with the bug bite Extractor it’s called the bug bite thing and I suck out the poison and guys I It works. It just works

Tonya Kubo (05:12)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:13)

And so, mean, your results may vary, but ? it only works if you use it pretty much immediately. Like you’re not gonna go to Target and buy one and then use it on the bug bite you got. ? But I love this thing. So if you live in a place with a lot of bug bites, have you actually tried it yet, Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (05:24)

Mm-hmm.

I was going to say like, but you by the time the one you sent to me arrived, obviously I could not use it on my face, but ? you know, they get trapped in our bedrooms. And so Abby woke up with one that was really bothering her on her ankle. And we, said, well, let me just open this up and let’s try it out. And she looked at me with all the skepticism of her 10 year old brain. Right. And, but you could see the like liquid on the surface of the skin afterwards.

Kathi Lipp (05:51)

Mm-hmm.

Of course.

Yes,

Tonya Kubo (06:06)

which she was really grossed out by. And

I was like, but it’s gross cool, right? She was like, no such thing as gross cool, mom. But it did not swell like typical. mean, cause you know how they swell up pretty big, at least on my body and on my girl’s body. I just say it’s worth buying. Buy it, try it. If you hate it, fine. But I don’t think you’ll hate it.

Kathi Lipp (06:14)

Yes, there is.

Yeah.

If you

react to mosquito bites like me, like you, like your girls, you want to do anything you can to make it lessen. And ? if it doesn’t work for you, I am sorry. But ? the anecdotal evidence is that this thing really, really works. And there’s some scientific backing to it. So.

Tonya Kubo (06:40)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:52)

I have not convinced Mr. Roger Lipp. He still thinks that I am, you know, I didn’t even think about using this on the tick that, you know, could I have sucked the tick out? I don’t know. ? That is not one of its indications because yeah, but hey.

Tonya Kubo (07:03)

Hell no.

I don’t think so. I’m just going to say no on

the tick thing. You have to actually remove the tick the old fashioned way.

Kathi Lipp (07:11)

Well, here’s the problem.

It did not remove it became one with my body. So I would have tried anything at that point. Yeah, I’ve still got little Herman riding along with me. We are one now. So sorry if that grosses you out. So guys, ? I love this thing. I think they’re probably around ? seven to nine dollars a piece. I think I bought a two pack. I would buy I would buy this again in a second. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (07:16)

Hahaha

Kathi Lipp (07:40)

So that’s my little things that have earned it. Let’s just say if this went missing, I would buy another one immediately because it really does make a difference. Okay, friends, you’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathy Lipp Now go create the clutter-free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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