#666 &#8211; The Nightstand Reset: Creating a Launch Pad for Peace

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)
Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with Tonya Kubo, leader of all things clutter free. Tonya, we are back into small spaces. We love a good small space. you know, our last podcast was our spiciest episode ever. And now it’s Tonya and Kathi after dark.

Tonya Kubo (00:40)
I you hide these from me just to get my reaction.

Kathi Lipp (00:44)
come on. actually that one that one I just came up with.

And let me tell you, on one of my favorite podcasts, Wirecutter. At the end of the podcast, they ask, what’s your favorite thing that you’ve bought recently? And so Tonya, want you to, I want to pretend I’m on Wirecutter and I want you to ask me that question. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (01:10)
Okay, so Kathi Lipp, what is your

favorite thing you have bought recently?

Kathi Lipp (01:14)
I’m so glad you asked. I’m so, so glad you asked because I’m so excited about this. And I bought it. I actually don’t have it. So maybe check with me in six months to see if I still love it. But can I tell you, you know, something I have discovered Tonya is I am really good at decluttering and I am a total cheapskate when it comes to organization. Like I’ve, I’ve thought for years, I don’t need to

Tonya Kubo (01:24)
Ha ha ha ha!

Ha!

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:44)
buy all these wacky organizational tools. don’t need, and then I’ve come to find out sometimes you do. You’re creating the system, but to keep the system going, sometimes you’re like, okay, I just need to do this. And so I have finally broken down and I have bought new nightstands. Now I haven’t bought a new nightstand. I’m not exaggerating. Since I was married the first time,

Tonya Kubo (01:47)
Mm-hmm.

I’m right.

Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

Kathi Lipp (02:14)
And that was in 1990. So I have not bought a nightstand for myself in 35 years. So I’m going to tell you about this nightstand. So the nightstands we have now, because they were passed down when we bought this house, so you could say we bought it since we bought a house and these came with it, but I digress. They’re very open. And so you see everything.

Tonya Kubo (02:17)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:43)
And

I don’t like that look. And no, I am not a Swedish girlie. I wish I could be, but that is just not how I live my life. And so I’m reverting back to the nightstand of my youth, which was two drawers. And one drawer was for everything you need every single night. And the other drawer is for things you may need less option, but you definitely want to have.

Tonya Kubo (02:45)
You don’t like the open concept nightstand, is that what you’re telling me?

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:12)
And now these new nightstands have in the top of the nightstand, they have built-in chargers.

Tonya Kubo (03:23)
What? Like, like chargers for a phone or like, like outlets for like a regular cord?

Kathi Lipp (03:24)
Yes. Yes.

Outlets

outlets so you can put your USB cords in them and Yes, and can I tell you how excited I am about this little update and the reviews on these are really good I’ll put them. It’s on Wayfair. I’ll put a link so you guys can see them, but That is what we’re talking about today is nightstands because we’re going through the house and we’re doing all these little micro spaces and

Tonya Kubo (03:36)
God

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (03:59)
These microspaces make the difference day to day of how we operate our life. So let me ask you about your nightstand situation, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (04:02)
Mm-hmm.

well, mean, my nightstand situation is not that exciting because the way our house is set up. So we have one nightstand and that’s on Brian’s side of the bed and it is one drawer and a shelf at the bottom. So it’s kind of a hybrid of what you have. And then on my side, because the bed has to be pushed so close to the dresser, I just use the top of the dresser as my nightstand, which is problematic because I don’t get the benefit of drawers because it’s our dresser drawers.

Kathi Lipp (04:16)
my goodness.

Yes. Yes, yes.

okay.

Right.

Yes. Yeah, that I think you got the short stick.

Tonya Kubo (04:40)
totally got the short end of the stick. And if you come into our bedroom, it makes him look like Brian is the organized person. And I am not because of course for him, he just tucks everything into the drawer before he like leaves in the morning. Meanwhile, everything, you know, like my eye drops and all of my stuff has to be on top of the dresser. So it’s just not an ideal situation. It’s one of those things where we’ve talked about like,

Kathi Lipp (04:50)
Okay.

Beautiful.

Mmm, yes.

Tonya Kubo (05:06)
Well, we should do it differently, we’re like, okay, well we have to wait till we buy a new dresser and then we can do this and then we can do that. And then suddenly I’m tired. I don’t want to change.

Kathi Lipp (05:10)
Yeah.

Right. It’s

the give a mouse a cookie of nightstands and nobody needs that, right? So I have found part of the reason that I’ve made this change is a couple of reasons. One, Roger has a CPAP and we need a place to put all of that nonsense, right? But the other thing is I have noticed when my nightstand gets too backed up,

Tonya Kubo (05:18)
Exactly!

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:42)
I

actually don’t sleep well because I’m afraid my phone’s going to fall off. I’m afraid about that glass of water. Like, and I at night, I don’t want to spend time cleaning all that nonsense up, but I really do feel. And this is this. If you listen to our podcast listeners from Dr. Vicky Casper, where she was talking about getting better sleep, she says a neat organized bedroom.

Tonya Kubo (05:48)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:12)
Impacts

your sleep in really really good ways And so I know that a neat surface actually helps me fall asleep faster It it feels more invite. I love walking into our room when the bed is made the nightstand is clear and it’s like, It’s just all waiting for me. Does that make sense? I don’t know Yeah

Tonya Kubo (06:29)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, it totally makes sense. And I also

think that, you know, I’m a big proponent of routines, like having a solid morning routine and an evening routine. And my thing is, your evening routine should be all about making your morning easier. And your morning routine is all about making the end of your day easier. And so I can imagine having a tidy nightstand really makes the mornings easier at your house.

Kathi Lipp (06:39)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely. And I just want to sink into bed. And, you know, I have a little routine that I do each night. And to have all of that there and then to have what I need in the morning, my phone, my glasses, all that kind of stuff. It just makes everything better. OK. go ahead.

Tonya Kubo (07:11)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so was going to say, so, so, you know, we’ve talked about the value of a tidy nightstand. We talked about a couple of different nightstand situations. So let’s just say our listeners not there yet, Kathi. Our listener doesn’t have the open concept nightstand that is soon to be replaced by a closed concept nightstand.

Kathi Lipp (07:28)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I get it.

I

am waiting for the FedEx guy right here. I am.

Tonya Kubo (07:44)
Yeah,

with power associated with it. Like that’s my favorite part of the whole thing. So walk us through how to get started. Okay, the nightstand is out of control. What do we do?

Kathi Lipp (07:48)
my goodness, right?

Yes, me too.

Yeah.

Okay. And by the way, I have been perfect. My nightstand that I’ve had has been perfectly serviceable. It’s just not my ideal situation. And right now I wanted to do something for me. So it doesn’t matter what your nightstand situation is. It all starts the same way. So first, again, as, as long time listeners, this podcast has been going for a decade now.

Tonya Kubo (08:17)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:26)
I’ve always said don’t pull everything out at once and put it in the middle of the room, but we’re talking about super small spaces here, tiny, tiny, tiny spaces. So I’m gonna tell you, pull everything out. I want you to pull out the books, the cords, the lotions, the random socks. I mean, we’ve all been there, right? Let me talk about other things I have in there, like the tweezers, the chapstick, and then you’re gonna sort this into a couple of different piles, so keep.

Tonya Kubo (08:26)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:55)
What truly belongs? So do you have medications that you need to take at night? That phone charger, your chapstick, maybe you have a little vase you want to keep on that nightstand. I like to a pin at my nightstand, my glasses. So I’m going to keep those. And then another pile is relocate. What has wandered there that does not need to be there?

Tonya Kubo (09:11)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:23)
I’m embarrassed. I don’t know. You I have weird stuff there. And also I have too many pairs of glasses. I don’t need like four pairs of glasses right there.

Tonya Kubo (09:33)
Okay, do you want to the weird stuff that’s in Brian’s drawer when I clean it out? Candy wrappers. He hides the candy wrappers because you know he’s like sneaking the candy so that one of the two children doesn’t see and then he stashes the wrappers in the drawer.

Kathi Lipp (09:36)
I don’t know, do I?

yes.

Well, you know what? Go off, King. That’s all I have to say. Brian has lost a ton of weight. He’s gotten so healthy. Whatever candy he wants, Brian gets. So…

Tonya Kubo (09:55)
Ha ha ha ha ha!

to say it’s so funny is I’ll go to his drawer to like look for something because that’s oftentimes where we have a backup charger. I’m like, of all, I didn’t know we had peeps and there were twicks in this house and nobody told me I am not okay with this.

Kathi Lipp (10:10)
Yeah.

Yeah, right. Okay,

can I just go a little off topic? I think what I need to put out into the universe, because I have dropped this hint too many times and have been ignored by Roger Lipp, the Japanese assortment of Twix. Have you guys, you seem like the household that would have had these at some point.

Tonya Kubo (10:24)
Sure.

Mm-hmm.

yes. Yeah,

well we’ve had the Japanese assortment of Kit Kats. There’s like 40 different versions. Yeah, 40 different versions. Yes. I’m just gonna tell you right now, strawberries and champagne, hard pass. It tastes like rotten grapes. Just gonna tell you right there. I did a whole like Instagram live on it because they were so bad. So bad.

Kathi Lipp (10:45)
That’s what I meant! I’m sorry KitKat, not Twix. Yes.

really? Okay. Eww!

I had no

idea. Okay, but I want to try the rest of them. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (11:05)
The rest of them are amazing, especially

the ones that they have that you’re supposed to broil. Yes, we can talk about this after the episode.

Kathi Lipp (11:10)
What? Okay, we have, we

have real, no, people will email me. Okay, just tell me, how do you broil a Kit Kat?

Tonya Kubo (11:20)
It is a regular KitKat, but you’re supposed to like broil it and they have these in-depth instructions about what the degrees are and how long because you have to be careful because it starts to melt. But it’s I think it’s toasted marshmallow flavor. And then so you broil it to like toast it. But it ends up just being a melty mess and it’s delicious. It’s worth the mess.

Kathi Lipp (11:27)
Okay. Okay.

Okay.

Okay,

so guys if you want to know how to do that I would say go on AI or google because I I don’t know but I We need to figure this out. Okay, so you have your keep pile things you want to keep in your nightstand You have your relocate? Apparently candy wrapper. Well the next the kitkat candy wrappers go into the next day discard recycle trash old receipts anything that’s expired etc, etc and

Tonya Kubo (11:45)
Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (12:08)
Before you reload this is the time to get out the handy vac you want to go deep in there you want to get all of that cleaned out give it a good wipe let it air out a little bit and a clean slate helps you see how much space you really have and then We’re gonna we we’re going to I want you to wipe down the top, too I want you to you know, just whether you use furniture polish a Clorox wipe, whatever it is

Tonya Kubo (12:33)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:38)
Just make sure you’re starting off with a clean slate.

Tonya Kubo (12:43)
That sounds good. you know what? It’s time for us to take a little break before we get to the rest of it. But when we come back from the break, stay listening because we’re going to talk about the right furniture, the right accessories, these important things that will help you maximize your space. We’ll be right back.

Kathi Lipp (12:47)
Okay.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:02)
All right, and we are back talking right furniture, accessories, and really getting to the practical. How do you do the thing? How do you have an effective nightstand? So Kathi okay, so you’ve upgraded to the two drawer nightstand with built-in outlets. I was hoping that you would talk to us a little bit more about.

Kathi Lipp (13:18)
Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (13:24)
why you felt like that was the right solution given your current circumstances, because you already told us what you have now is actually serviceable.

Kathi Lipp (13:27)
Yeah.

It’s totally fine, but I will say I did have to put like a basket on the second layer. know, so we have a drawer up top, which is a very thin drawer and then a, just a shelf at the bottom and I had to put a basket on that. So that would be the basket I pulled out at night with like my face cream, all that kind of stuff. So we’ll talk more about that in a second, but I just wanted, I wanted to be able to close things up at night and just be done, but also,

Tonya Kubo (14:01)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:02)
Be able to see what I have and what I need and so this little tiny drawer I have it’s fine But it means everything has to be stored laying down and it just it wasn’t smooth Let me just say that it wasn’t smooth and so I I do have a really lovely solution that my my lamp is built is attached on the wall

Tonya Kubo (14:31)
Mmm. That’s nice.

Kathi Lipp (14:31)
So it doesn’t take any space up.

that’s really nice because that can take a lot of your usable space top. I just, at 57, I wanted to walk into my room and not have it be so utilitarian, but just to be lovely. If I wanted to, you know, we have wildflowers here. I want a little vase of wildflowers. I want my book to be on my nightstand.

Tonya Kubo (14:40)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:58)
I don’t want a bunch of medications, know, tissues, that kind of stuff. I want it to look lovely. And I will say one other thing I’ve done that this would not work for my friend Brian Kubo, who is trying to sneak his candy. But we have put between our nightstand and our bed, just a thin, clear, waste paper basket that, you know, so for that occasional tissue, that occasional candy wrapper, like the things we can just throw them in there and

Tonya Kubo (15:09)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (15:26)
It does help keep that space a little bit neater and tidier.

Tonya Kubo (15:31)
Yeah, well, I can imagine, you know, I know for us we have blown through charging cables because of tripping, tripping over the cord. So this sounds to me like that would solve that problem as well.

Kathi Lipp (15:37)
Mmm. Yes. Yes.

Yes, I think, you know, and the chords make, we have so many chords in our life. And I get sick of looking at chords. I mean, it’s not, is it going to disrupt my whole day? But no, to have less chords is kind of a beautiful thing.

Tonya Kubo (15:49)
Mm-hmm.

you

Yeah, and then I just want to say like on the inside drawers, we’ve talked in prior episodes about the honeycomb or box dividers. So I just think it’s important to highlight the fact that if you have drawers, we’re not necessarily saying just dump everything in there equally. There are drawer solutions in terms of organizing as well.

Kathi Lipp (16:05)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

No, no.

Yeah, I’m gonna wait till I get these drawers in my house and then I’m going to Put the dividers in that we’ve talked about, you know, these are spring-loaded so that they’ll fit in almost any drawer and The honeycomb box so I can put little things in there. But yeah, that makes it so much Everything’s standing up. You can see everything at once

Tonya Kubo (16:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so what else do you have for us?

Kathi Lipp (16:45)
Well, you I’ve told you about my night basket before, in case nobody’s heard about this before. This is just a basket I use at night. So I have things in there like I’ve got a pill organizer that, you know, there are a couple of medications I take at night. So I put those in there. I have face wipes, the Neutrogena face wipes, because I’ll just be honest, when it gets past seven o’clock,

Tonya Kubo (16:49)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:12)
If it’s a choice between me getting out of bed to wash my face or laying in bed with my Neutrogena wipes or not getting out of bed at all and going to bed to sleep, Neutrogena wipes for the win. And then I have facial cream. have neck cream. Now I do get out of bed to brush my teeth, drink my water and stuff, but every once in a while, I’ll be honest. I would say, you know, maybe once a week, maybe once every other week.

Tonya Kubo (17:15)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:42)
I’m like, I can’t even, and I know that grosses some people out. So one of the things I’ve done is I keep dental wipes in there. So, you know, they’re loaded with toothpaste and I can just, and I’ve got little tiny toothbrush and I keep my dental floss in there and it just makes my life easier. I also will take some vitamins at night. So like I keep everything in that bag. I will, I don’t know what my bag is going to look like with this new setup.

Tonya Kubo (17:49)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:10)
but I will have some kind of little bag or tote that I can pull out and have everything that I need at night. And one thing I’ve just added to it is just a little Tupperware container that has a moose treat in it. And because she comes to bed with me and I just wanna have a little routine for her at night. So it corrals all my bedtime routine into, know, steps into one place. And I am 93 % more likely to do it because I have it all together.

Tonya Kubo (18:10)
Mm-hmm.

you

Yeah, I love that. And you know what? A little bit earlier you were just saying you get sick of looking at chords. Any tips in that front?

Kathi Lipp (18:46)
Yeah.

So I would say one of things that we’ve done is and I feel like this is absolute genius. I got a multi-pronged outlet and I put Velcro on the back of the outlet and then the other Velcro on the back of my nightstand. And so I can I can take that off. I can plug everything in and then I can slap it on the back.

Tonya Kubo (18:59)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:16)
and you don’t see all those chords going crazy. just, I feel like that was kind of a genius solution. makes me super, super happy.

Tonya Kubo (19:20)
Well…

Got it. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I’m visualizing, which is why I’m talking slowly. So what about emotions? Cause you know, Kathi over in Clairefree Academy and our Facebook group, you want to believe that there’s not like it, it’s just stuff or you want to believe that something in the house doesn’t have emotion, but there’s emotional connections to everything for someone, right? So how do you address that side when it comes to the nightstand?

Kathi Lipp (19:30)
Yes.

Yeah, everything. Yes.

Yeah, I think, you know, it’s a little bit, we talked about the underwear drawer the other day and how we keep sometimes sentimental things there. If you’re going to display something on your nightstand, I think it’s an excellent place to put it. But I think what we, know, Tonya, our grandmothers and great grandmothers had trousseaux. They had, you know, a keepsake chest where they could keep all those things. And we’ve gotten away from that. And I think that each of us,

Tonya Kubo (19:57)
Mm-hmm. Yeah!

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:24)
needs a box, a place to put those things that maybe are not going to be displayed, but are still precious to us. Because if they’re in our nightstand, I don’t know about you, but I just told you all the lotions and potions I keep in my nightstand. If I’ve got a love letter from Roger, do I really want that next to my bath and body works, you know, hibiscus? No, I don’t. Let me keep that in a special place. Let

Tonya Kubo (20:29)
Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

huh.

Kathi Lipp (20:51)
So let, if you wanna keep a framed photo or something like that, that’s lovely, go for it. But if you just don’t know where else to keep it, get a box that is just for things that are important to you because we all have memories that are important to us that maybe we don’t have to keep it, but you know what? We get to keep some silly stuff. We get to keep some emotional stuff. I think that that is okay. I just want you to also think about

Tonya Kubo (21:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:21)
We talked about this in our coat closet using that as a launch pad what if you thought of your nightstand as your you nighttime shutdown area and your morning launch area So i’m gonna keep my glasses here. I’m gonna keep my phone here. I’m gonna keep my e-reader here These are the things you know, i’m charging my watch i’m keeping everything here I have a little notepad here if I want to keep notes. This is where my book goes

Tonya Kubo (21:26)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

you

Kathi Lipp (21:50)
So you have all of that that you need when you wake up in the morning and you reset it at night and it’s good to go. You you have your bottle of water. Like I put a bottle of water next to my nightstand every night and I may take a sip, a couple of sips at night, but the first thing I do when I wake up in the morning is I chug that whole bottle of water because I forget to drink water during the day.

Tonya Kubo (22:12)
Mm.

Kathi Lipp (22:15)
But if it’s right there next to my nightstand, I’m gonna chug it as soon as I get up when I’m at my thirstiest. So think of it as your lunch.

Tonya Kubo (22:24)
I love that. I love that. Okay. So nightstand as a launch pad, which I think is a powerful reframe. And Kathi just want say thank you because you are the person who is designing these episodes for practical action for our listeners. just get to show up and ask questions and be curious. It’s like my favorite thing. And listeners, I’m just grateful to you.

Kathi Lipp (22:41)
You

Tonya Kubo (22:46)
for joining us, lending us your ears and taking advantage of all of these practical tips. So we’ve covered the why, the how and the emotional side of decluttering your nightstand. Your challenge this week is going to empty the nightstand. Try Kathi’s advice of setting up the night basket, maybe invest in a pillow organizer and see how it transforms your evenings. Make sure to check out the show notes though, cause we’ve got resources there for you to all different places and a handout that goes along with this episode.

Kathi Lipp (23:13)
Mmm, you got

go ahead Tonya. I was just gonna say one other thing is that make sure that you’re regularly cleaning it out It’s easy to let silly things like a lotion sample or you know, something along those lines just Don’t don’t get in your own way when it comes to the nightstand. You don’t need to keep all that stuff I’m sorry. I stepped on you, but it just occurred to me. Yeah

Tonya Kubo (23:18)
Mm-hmm.

no, you’re all good? Well,

because maintenance is so important, right? I think we’ve done a great job of talking about how to get it to a status. And what you did was remind us that it’s worth the time to keep it there. So thank you, friends. You’ve been listening to ClutterFree Academy. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

Kathi Lipp (23:42)
It really is. Yeah.

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#665 – Declutter Your Spice Cabinet: From Chaos to Cooking Bliss

Listen Now

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo tackle one of the most deceptively frustrating spots in your kitchen: the spice cabinet. If you’ve ever bought a second (or sixth) bottle of basil because you couldn’t find the first one, or had cumin avalanche onto your counter, this one’s for you. The duo shares budget-friendly, sanity-saving solutions to bring order and accessibility to your most flavorful clutter zone.

In This Episode You’ll Learn:

Why your spices should spark joy—and scent

Kathi’s five-tiered spice strategy (yes, really!)

Creative storage options for tiny kitchens, RVs, and big Costco-sized bottles

How to group spices for ease: singles vs. blends

The $13 Amazon tool that might change your dinner routine forever

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

Tiered Shelf
Expandable shelf
YouCopia Spice Organizer
Kathi’s Facebook Page (cooking lives are on Wednesdays!)

Download the Free Guide:
Spice Cabinet Makeover PDF– A step-by-step plan to sort, toss, and organize.

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:54)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And guys, just welcome to our spiciest episode ever.

Tonya Kubo (01:10)

the puns.

Kathi Lipp (01:12)

Well, okay, we should let you guys know you don’t have to hide your kids for this this isn’t spicy like book talk spicy this No, no, no and you guys We we are here to talk about your spice cabinet very exciting right Tonya

Tonya Kubo (01:19)

Yeah, there’s no chili pepper spiciness on this one.

Super exciting. I mean, if you like to cook, it’s definitely exciting.

Kathi Lipp (01:35)

Yes, and we are just going to take advantage of some of our experience with organizing our spices and how to get that from going from cluttered and chaos to cooking optimized. That’s exactly what we want.

Tonya Kubo (01:53)

Yeah. And so Kathi, I’m just curious. I first of all, I’m loving the series that we’re doing where we’re taking like these small sections of the house that plague all of us so much when it comes to clutter. They just get out of hand easily. And I know that I’m not alone because we have this episode. So I know that you have the same problem where the spice cabinet drawer, whatever you like to do with your spices, like goes cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. So

Kathi Lipp (02:04)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (02:23)

Talk to us about yours.

Kathi Lipp (02:25)

Well, okay, I can talk to you about before, before I found the solution that actually works for me, because I’m gonna save that till the end, as you know, Tonya, I’m very proud of my spice system. yes.

Tonya Kubo (02:34)

Okay.

I know you are. I know you are. And I

haven’t seen the latest one, I don’t think.

Kathi Lipp (02:44)

Okay,

so well, I think you’ve seen part of it, but yes well there are layers much like a spicy stew. There are layers to my spice cabinet. Well, okay. So for years I tried different things. I did your traditional spice rack where you know, it was hanging up in the kitchen, but I didn’t love that because I I’m never the only time I ever owned spices where their containers matched.

Tonya Kubo (02:47)

Okay.

Ha ha!

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:14)

was the

Tonya Kubo (03:14)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:14)

day after I got married. Like somebody gave us a spice container. So I’ve had the kind that spin on your cabinet. I have the kind on the wall. But I also, not every spice company is equal. And some of them have spices that I really like. And then there are others like, I’m not a fennel person. Like fennel, my mom apparently,

Tonya Kubo (03:16)

Got it.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:40)

was addicted to fennel and anise. So black, black licorice flavors when she was pregnant with me. I can’t stand either of those. So like, I don’t need any of those. But you know, they come in different sizes, different containers, like, and what is a spice? I mean, I know what a spice is. But also, we have other things like the baking soda, baking powder, vanilla paste, all that kind of stuff.

Tonya Kubo (03:45)

Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (04:07)

So mine was kind of a jumble some of it looks super organized, but I wouldn’t say it was super functional and I would just waste time You know because some of the spices were behind other spices And then I’d run low on the spice and I’d re buy that spice only to find out. I actually had that spice somewhere

Tonya Kubo (04:10)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (04:31)

Spices should not be this big of an issue in a human’s life. It just shouldn’t be. How’s your spice situation?

Tonya Kubo (04:40)

Yeah,

equally frustrating, but in different ways. Because for us, like before I even met Brian, so like we’re going back a lot of years, I always bought re refillable spice containers. So I had a selection of spice containers, and then I just buy like bulk spices in bags and go in like that, and I replace it, which is awesome.

Kathi Lipp (04:44)

Okay?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, okay.

Tonya Kubo (05:06)

They have a little label on them. They’re beautiful, except for the cumin, which somehow got too close to a burner is halfway melted. But aside from that one, right? It’s beautiful. But the problem is I don’t actually have enough. think I have 24, which works for like the main spices. But you know, Mr. Kubo is a big fan of the Trader Joe’s seasoning blends. And I am not devoting a label to

Kathi Lipp (05:08)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

yeah, I get it.

Tonya Kubo (05:34)

a seasoning blend that may or may not have a long time shelf life in our house. And I already have my other ones full.

Kathi Lipp (05:42)

Yes, and you know, I just saw a TikTok where a woman who’s neurodivergent has a Trader Joe’s spice. I think it was the pizza spice that they just discontinued and she was heartbroken. And yes, I can see not wanting to dedicate a whole label to something because you’re not, you’re not.

Tonya Kubo (05:47)

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (06:08)

discontinuing basil. Like, yes.

Tonya Kubo (06:11)

Right, well exactly.

And like a lot of mine are like single spices or single herbs, right? And so with the blends, it doesn’t make sense to put the blends in there, because we go through various blends. And then we’re back to the issue that I think you were alluding to, right? So I’ve got some that are like in the little tiny short containers, like the half an ounce or whatever. Then I’ve got some that are in that four ounce container.

Kathi Lipp (06:16)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Right.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:37)

Then I’ve

got some we’ve gotten from Costco, right? So they’re ginormous and they barely fit in the cabinet. And part of it is I have to rely on my memory to let me know like, okay, am I looking in my refillable spices? Do I look in the cabinet or do I look in the drawer? Three locations, Kathi, three. For spices.

Kathi Lipp (06:41)

Yeah.

Right. Right.

I get it

for spices. It should not be this much drama. But if you like to cook or you’re forced to cook, spices make everything better. And so we’re gonna need to figure out this spice situation, right?

Tonya Kubo (07:14)

Mm hmm. Yeah. We and well, we need to figure it out. And I think what, Kathi, we owe it to our listeners to give them a variety of options. Right. And so I think what we can do is I think we have enough time before we cut to commercial to go through a couple of options and then we’ll take our break. How does that sound?

Kathi Lipp (07:26)

Yes, absolutely.

Okay,

I think that sounds beautiful. Okay, so the first thing I think you need to do is we need to declutter your spices and people, know, declutter your spices. But I’m guessing if you do any amount of cooking, you have a couple of basils, you have a spice that you tried from Trader Joe’s and you realized it’s nobody’s favorite or

Tonya Kubo (07:45)

Mm-hmm.

Can I tell

you which one that is? Trader Joe’s seasoning salt. It is the worst thing I’ve ever tasted and I figured out why. It has a bunch of celery salt that, and in my mouth, celery salt tastes bitter. I like celery, but celery salt is very bitter to me, overpowers the whole thing. I hate it.

Kathi Lipp (08:04)

Yeah, do tell.

really?

Okay.

Yeah. Okay. and you,

yeah. Okay. See guys, if you don’t like celery salt, Tonya just saved you four bucks. And yes. So again, you guys know I’m not a huge fan of pull everything into the middle of the room and sort it out, but we are talking microspaces here. Your spices in most houses are microspaces.

Tonya Kubo (08:43)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:47)

So I am going to encourage you to take everything out of the cabinet and I want you to do some things like check for expiration dates. Now, I will say this. I’m not worried if your cilantro is expired. The only thing, you you’re not going to die of cilantro poisoning as far as I know, but your spices get less effective the older they are.

Tonya Kubo (09:14)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:16)

So if you can’t smell the spice, you need to toss it. If you have six basils, maybe take a couple of unopened ones to the food pantry or give them to a friend or something like that. And then one thing you can do, you can group them. Now, I’ll tell you how I group mine. I have a couple of different ways. So we have your basic set of spices and then I have my blends.

So I have two different areas for that. So my basil is not, my basil spice is not next to my bohemian spice because the bohemian is a blend, the basil is a regular. you know, so there’s herbs, ground spices, baking essential, and also let’s keep the things that we use the most towards the front. So if you have a cabinet or something like that, but,

Tonya Kubo (09:56)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:14)

Here’s why we’re gonna go through so many different iterations of space spice organization is because in every place I’ve lived I’ve had to organize differently because my kitchen layout has been different and you just have to work with what you have because none of us here are Remodeling our kitchen cabinets because of basil. We’re just not doing it so

Tonya Kubo (10:25)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (10:39)

The first thing I want to talk about is a tiered shelf or expandable rack. So this is very simple. This is part of my solution. This is part of the solution I have for things like my vanilla bean paste and my I have a cinnamon shaker and I have a powdered sugar shaker and I have baking soda and baking powder and all these different kinds of things.

Tonya Kubo (10:52)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:06)

And those are not going to fit into my spice rack situation, but they do fit on these tiered, think of them as stairs. And so if you were putting your humans on the stairs, you could put tall people in the back and then shorter people up front. But even if they were kind of the same height, you’d still be able to see the people in the back because they’re on a taller step. That’s the same thing I do.

Tonya Kubo (11:16)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, right. Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:34)

Some of my spice blends and things like that that they’re a little bit bigger a little bit more awkward You these come in bamboo and by the way, we’ll have links to all of these You know Amazon links to all of these in the back mine are white plastic and they expand so they fit into the space in your cabinet and Yeah, it makes it so you can see everything at a glance. So like I have some barbecue seasonings there

things like that that I don’t use all the time, but I want to know about. And so we’ll put those links in there.

Tonya Kubo (12:12)

Awesome. my gosh, this is so helpful, Kathi. And especially, I really liked the idea of keeping the, I’ll call them the single ingredient spices separate from the blends. Cause I think that is incredibly helpful. So, okay. So you’ve told us like we first got to declutter. We got to pair it down, consolidate, toss, whatever you need to do, but let’s pair it down so that we don’t have six basil. Cause that

Kathi Lipp (12:23)

He has.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (12:41)

would be a problem for most of us, maybe not all of us. Then you talked about the of the simplest storage solution it sounds to me is this expandable like shelf sort of stair step thing. Do you feel like it’s the most affordable solution too?

Kathi Lipp (12:48)

Yeah.

Right?

Oh yeah, by far the most affordable. You I think those things you can buy them for like 10 to $13 and that’s really gonna amp up your space. But I think the next most affordable one is, and here’s the thing, I would never personally use this solution. Cause I feel like a kitchen drawer is about the most valuable space in your entire house. But I know for some people, this is the magical solution. And this is, it’s a pullout spice drawer.

Tonya Kubo (13:12)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:25)

or you know, what it does is you can pull out the drawer, the spices are laying down in the drawer, but they are segmented out. so there are a couple of pullout drawers we can talk about. That’s one where you can pull out just one of your cabinet drawers or your kitchen drawers and those spices are laying down. There’s another one that I think is really interesting.

Tonya Kubo (13:35)

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:51)

that I have not tried, but I might at some point, especially in our RV where space is limited. And this is like, it’s a pull-out, and we’ll have pictures of all of these in the notes, but this is like a pull-out cabinet, pull-out rack where the spices are standing up. So you can, it’s both sides, it’s like toy soldier rows of spices where you can see them standing up.

Tonya Kubo (13:54)

Mm-hmm.

Okay,

so it goes in a cabinet, but it’s a drawer system that fits inside a cabinet versus having an organization system that fits inside of a drawer.

Kathi Lipp (14:22)

Yes.

Exactly. there I’ve I’ve confused us. I get it. I really have Yes

Tonya Kubo (14:32)

No, it’s okay. I summarized it. We’re good. This is the

beauty of having two of us here. Well, and the reason I wanted to pull that out and clarify is because I think there are a lot of people who do prefer some kind of drawer based system. So having a solution for the people who do want to use their own drawer, right? But make that work for them is helpful. And then also for somebody who

Kathi Lipp (14:50)

Yes.

Yes. Right.

Tonya Kubo (15:00)

maybe has a little extra cabinet space, but that doesn’t work for them because they don’t like the cabinet layout, then they can get a drawer system to insert. my gosh, this is really actually, it’s quite creative, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (15:06)

Right.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. I

I really I I think if you can solve this problem You can improve your nighttime cooking routine by a solid seven percent Yes, yes

Tonya Kubo (15:24)

Ooh, I like a solid 7%. Not too high,

not too low. This is good. Okay, let’s cut to commercial really quick. Pay some bills. We’ll be right back.

my gosh. So we are back talking about, think one of the most valuable pieces of real estate in your home, which is the space you allocate to spices. Cause it seems like a small space, but it can get out of hand really, really quickly. And Kathi is walking us through a variety of solutions on how to tame that incredibly chaotic area. So you heard us before the commercial break. Now we’re coming back. Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (15:48)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (16:05)

Talk to me about what I think is everybody’s practice when it comes to organizing. I think most of our listeners are probably already shocked that we haven’t brought it up.

Kathi Lipp (16:17)

Are you talking lazy Susans? Okay, and I will say this is part of my, I apparently, I don’t think I realized it until we did this episode that I have like a five, five layer solution to all of this, but it’s just, it’s where we’re at. It’s what works. And so I have a lazy Susan, very tall lazy Susan that I keep things like, you know, the Costco size,

Tonya Kubo (16:19)

I’m totally talking lazy Susans.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it’s what works.

Kathi Lipp (16:46)

containers of They’re the blends, you know, so the those kind of things. I keep them on the lazy Susan. I also keep some other You know like seasoning salts and things like that on there and that is just you know You turn around you’re doubling or tripling your space The problem is whatever on the inside of that lazy Susan will never be seen again Yeah, so you either you either have to not care about it

Tonya Kubo (16:59)

Mm-hmm.

I was gonna say it never sees the light of day.

Kathi Lipp (17:16)

or you just have to promise yourself that you’re not gonna fill up that space. But really, where is there a space in your kitchen that has not been filled?

Tonya Kubo (17:24)

Never. Now I have a question about the lazy Susan though. So my experience with lazy Susans, it doesn’t take long before eventually they don’t quite spin as smoothly as they used to. And so then that’s what drives me up a wall. Cause I’m like, I have what looks like a lazy Susan, but it is not lazying around for me.

Kathi Lipp (17:25)

Right. Yes.

Okay.

Mm-hmm Yes, okay

So you may have to turn that thing take everything off turn it upside down and see if there’s anything blocking the mechanism Or you mention may just have too much on it Yeah, and it’s well it’s probably too stuffed and it’s getting stuck in a corner or something and so maybe you just need a little TLC

Tonya Kubo (17:50)

Hmm.

it never occurred to me that that could be a problem, but that’s probably the problem.

Mm-hmm.

Alright, okay, so, lazy Susan, what else do we got?

Kathi Lipp (18:09)

Yeah,

okay, so if you are super super tight on space in your kitchen So these are some I’m gonna give you some rapid-fire solutions that I have used in spaces like Our RV where there there is no space the space doesn’t exist. So one of those things is There are under cabinet Storage for yeah, so you can see all that. I think that that is ideal for somebody who says

Tonya Kubo (18:15)

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:38)

here are the eight spices I’m going to use. I am not bringing blends into my kitchen. I will make the blend. So that’s an option for that. Another thing that you might want to consider is a holder for the side of your refrigerator. If many refrigerators are not magnetized on the front anymore,

Tonya Kubo (18:43)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (19:03)

but they are on the side. And so there are so many great storage solutions. So if you’re working in a tiny apartment or an RV, or maybe it’s a work kitchen cabinet, and you just have a little bit of space, one of those magnetized things will help it so you don’t lose that shelf in your kitchen that is so, so valuable. So something along those lines, thinking outside the box is really, really helpful in those situations.

Tonya Kubo (19:16)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

well, I mean, exactly, right? It’s like, you really just have to look at your kitchen and go, you know, what, what is my usable space and what makes the most sense to put here and be willing to be creative. Cause to your point, I’ve seen a lot of knife organizers, for instance, that could go on the side of the fridge, that are magnetized side of the fridge or side of the stove. And of course these are for people who do not have children. Cause I could just see how that would work.

Kathi Lipp (19:38)

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah.

Exactly.

Abby.

Tonya Kubo (20:02)

But just be exactly. But

you know what? Spices could be a safe thing to magnetize to the side of my fridge. So I love that creativity. But I hear a rumor that maybe Roger told me, maybe Roger didn’t tell me, who knows, that you have actually a super duper favorite solution to spice organization. Lay it on us.

Kathi Lipp (20:08)

Yeah. Right.

We’re

my goodness.

You know can spice organization actually be life-changing. I don’t know But if it could be this would be the one it’s from a brand called utopia and it’s not it’s y-o-u like you topia and It is I it’s so interesting. So it’s a plastic Set of shelves that when you pull it out when you pull out a shelf

Tonya Kubo (20:32)

You

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (20:56)

it drops down so you can see all of the spices on that shelf. And of course, I’ve labeled the edge of each shelf so I know what’s on there. But this, it lays it out so beautifully. You know I do a cooking show every Wednesday on Facebook. And I love it. Every time I need a spice, I can just go there and I know I have it. And so part of

Tonya Kubo (21:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:25)

keeping that system working. I have one for my basic like basil and then I have another set that is for my blends like Bohemian. And I love it so much because I can see at a glance what I have. I keep those at least two thirds full. I feel like that’s kind of the, that’s when I need, I know I need to get something else unless it’s a crazy expensive spice like saffron.

Tonya Kubo (21:31)

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (21:55)

Saffron,

you know, if we’re gonna wait till we get down to the bottom before we’re my goodness, right? Because yeah, that’s a different tax bracket if you are or you live in a different country where saffron is not quite that expensive Yeah that and vanilla holy cow, but I love this so much. It makes it so much It’s so easy. You can see what you have at a glance It doesn’t matter that I buy some of my spices from savory spice

Tonya Kubo (22:00)

The last thread!

is easier to get.

Kathi Lipp (22:24)

and some of them from Whole Foods and some of them from Safeway because nobody sees them but me. I just keep them all behind there and it fits most of your containers. So I do have a couple where I’ve doubled up on some of those little containers and it just looks it looks nice and it makes me it makes me smile every time I use it.

Tonya Kubo (22:31)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, well, and I think that’s important, right? Because if we have to eat, I mean, the truth is, is we have to eat, we don’t necessarily have to cook. But if we have to eat and we choose to cook, we should have a measure of enjoyment in the cooking experience. And to your earlier point, the frustration, having like the spices fall out on you or fall onto the cabinet when you’re trying to get to something that really can take, even if you enjoy cooking, that can rob the joy from.

Kathi Lipp (22:56)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes.

It really can.

Tonya Kubo (23:17)

So now I have a hard question, Kathi, because you know me, I like to throw you curve balls now and then. You have laid out a lot of solutions and you know, our listeners and our Facebook community members, we struggle a little bit with some decision fatigue. Notice how I put myself in that picture just now? Yeah, I said we, it wasn’t the royal we. And so with so many choices, how do you help us decide?

Kathi Lipp (23:20)

Okay, I love a good hard question. Let’s do it.

Mm-hmm.

Sure. Yes.

I can actually answer this pretty easily. You need a tape measure. You need a tape measure. Yes, but you know what? The tape measure helps you decide what actually is going to work for your space. And so you may think, youtopia that Kathi’s talking about, that will change my life. And then you go to measure your cabinet and you’re like, it would change my life if it fit, but it doesn’t.

Tonya Kubo (23:47)

Okay.

That was not what I saw coming, but okay.

Hmm.

Yeah

Kathi Lipp (24:13)

So

I’m not going, so you can do this through process of elimination. So get a tape measure out, check these links that we’re sharing with you on Amazon and see what will actually fit for your space. And I would just say, give yourself a half inch grace on most of these things because not that I think they’re lying to you, but just to make sure that it can fit well. And really consider a combination. What I’ve really used,

Tonya Kubo (24:17)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (24:43)

is the youtopia spice organizers, the lazy Susan, and the stair stepping shelves. And that fits all of my needs. And if I can’t fit it in one of those things, I probably don’t need it. It would be a very rare thing that I would need something outside of.

Tonya Kubo (24:50)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And I think that’s just a great thing to remember. It’s like, if this doesn’t work, like, first of all, how likely is it that the solution wouldn’t work? And if it didn’t work, what would be the circumstance that would make that the case? And then how do you work around it? my goodness, Kathi. Okay. So I feel like it is important to remind our listeners of all the resources that are available. We have mentioned a lot of things in this episode. Please do not walk, but run over to the show notes.

Kathi Lipp (25:17)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (25:32)

Click the link that’s in your player and you want to definitely pay attention to all the resources that we have for you there. So we will give you a link to the Clutterfree Academy Facebook group just in case you want to talk this through, share some before and after pictures, see other people’s before and after pictures. We will have a link to a downloadable PDF resource for you and a quick spice checklist. This whole series includes

resources that you can download and print out or use on your device, whatever makes you happy. And Kathi mentioned this, but she kind of snuck it under, so I want to reinforce it. You can catch her cooking live on Facebook. That is her author, Kathi Lipp page, every Wednesday. If you just go to the page, it’ll tell you what time the next one is. And you can see her kitchen live and in real time.

Kathi Lipp (26:22)

Yeah, and here, let me just give one more little piece of encouragement here. When you are looking at ordering these things, look on Amazon and oftentimes there will be a note that this item is often returned. Now, it always blew me away that the reviews are like a 4.7, but the item is often returned.

Tonya Kubo (26:41)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (26:49)

and

that’s because people ordered it and it didn’t fit in their kitchen. we, know, us cluttery girls, we love to take a flyer and just, you know, we want to order when the mood hits us and we can’t find the tape measure, so we’re not gonna worry about it. Take the extra five seconds to go find that tape, or five minutes, let’s be honest. Go find that tape measure, measure the space, so.

Tonya Kubo (26:53)

Yep.

Kathi Lipp (27:15)

because I want you to have wins. Tonya and I want you to have wins in every part of this. And I’m also gonna say one other thing. Tonya, you and I both do an extreme amount of cooking. Most of the food we eat, we cook. You and I both buy spices from Costco. Don’t buy spices from Costco if you’re not cooking on the regular. I will say, I guess there is another portion to my spice.

Tonya Kubo (27:26)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Kathi Lipp (27:43)

You know what I’m holding on to to those really big jars I keep those in my garage and when I’m refilling my spice containers one thing I’ve discovered I don’t know if this holds true for you. I’m never shaking spices into a soup or a casserole I’m always measuring them. So I take those stupid little shaker tabs off Because I don’t use them but when I refill I refill with a piece of paper that I’ve fashioned into a cone because

Tonya Kubo (27:58)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (28:11)

If I’m refilling spices, I’m refilling a lot at the same time. And I don’t want my basil to get into my cumin, or let’s be honest, more likely the other way around. And so I’m just using that paper to do it over and over and over again. So those are my last little hits.

Tonya Kubo (28:19)

Mm-hmm.

I love it. I

have a little itty bitty baby funnel. It is the tiniest cutest funnel you’ll ever see. Can’t tell you where I bought it, but it works really well. All right. Well, Kathi, thank you so much for sharing these tips with us, helping us to spice up our kitchens. And listeners, I just want to say thank you for hanging out with us. We appreciate the fact that you lend us your ears. You have been listening to Clutterfree Academy. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

Kathi Lipp (28:30)

do you? Yes. I love that.

I love it.

Woohoo!

#662 – How I Organized My Pots & Pans Cupboard: Simple Solutions for Kitchen Chaos

Mar 25, 2025 | Clutter Free, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive into one of the most dreaded and clutter-prone areas of the home: the kitchen cupboards. Whether you're struggling with chaos in your pots and pans cabinet or just need some fresh organization...

#661 – The Hidden Link Between Loneliness and Clutter

Mar 18, 2025 | Clutter Free, Overwhelmed, Podcast

In this enlightening episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp sits down with Kristin Strong, author of "Praying Through Loneliness: A 90 Day Devotional for Women." Together, they uncover the intertwined relationship between clutter and loneliness, offering...

#660 – Jesus Doesn’t Care About Your Messy House

Mar 11, 2025 | Clutter Free, Home, Mental Load, Podcast, Shame

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp welcomes author Dana K. White for their first-ever conversation about the intersection of faith and decluttering. Dana shares her personal journey from anonymous blogger to bestselling author, revealing how she...

#664 – Transform Your Underwear Drawer: Tips for a Peaceful Start to Your Day

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Apr 8, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast | 0 comments

#664 – Transform Your Underwear Drawer: Tips for a Peaceful Start to Your Day

Listen Now

In this laugh-out-loud and surprisingly transformational episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep—literally—into the drawer that gets no love but causes a whole lot of frustration: your sock and underwear drawer. From chicken footprints and Sharpies to mismatched socks and holy underwear, they uncover the oddities that sneak into this tiny space—and provide the simple steps you need to bring peace and order to your most intimate drawer.

In This Episode You’ll Learn:

Why worn-out socks and too-tight undies deserve a swift exit

The magic number of pairs you really need (based on your lifestyle!)

Kathi’s favorite affordable organizing tools (spoiler: cereal boxes included)

What to do with all the random stuff hiding in your drawer

Why your underwear drawer should be the least stressful part of your day

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

Download the Free Guide:
Declutter Your Sock & Underwear Drawer Cheat Sheet – A step-by-step plan to sort, toss, and organize.

FYI: Some product links are affiliate links. If you buy, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support!

Clutter Free Resources:

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my Clutter co-creator. Yeah, we create clutter together, but we also clean it up together. It’s Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. Okay, this is Clutter After Dark.

Tonya Kubo (00:24)

Hey, Kathi!

Kathi Lipp (00:33)

This is our most intimate episode ever. Guys, we’re talking underwear here. Can I just say, before we talk about getting into discussing, we’re talking about decluttering your underwear and sock drawer. Now, first of all, Tonya, do your underwear and sock co-mingle? Like, how are you set up?

Tonya Kubo (00:38)

Can we have

Yeah, so my underwear, socks, co-mingle.

Kathi Lipp (01:04)

Okay, okay. And when I’m saying underwear, I’m meaning all the categories, okay? So like, okay. Yeah, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (01:09)

Yeah, yeah. So like for me, it’s like camis and

like long, like long johns and stuff for when I travel to cold areas. My slips, all of that. That’s all one drawer with the socks.

Kathi Lipp (01:17)

Okay.

Okay,

there are gonna be people who are like, what are slips? I mean there really will be. That’s okay. Hey, so, but you didn’t slip, okay, nevermind. We’re gonna stop with all the puns. Yeah, my underwear, sock drawer, it’s bras, sports bras, tights, all of that kind of stuff. And they’re all very individual. But I do wanna say this. If you have never tried…

Tonya Kubo (01:25)

I know. I know. But I have a slurp.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:49)

the sports bras and underwear from Costco, may I highly suggest like I I I’ve I have converted I have converted fully and I’ll put the links down there to they’re not affiliate links. A lot of the things we do in here are affiliate links, which means hey, the clutter free people make a little bit of money off of this. So but these are not Costco doesn’t do that kind of thing. But I just love them so much. And you know what?

Tonya Kubo (01:53)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:17)

I love that I can pick up some new underwear next to my rotisserie chicken. Just makes me super happy. Okay, so if you are tired of mismatched socks, holy underwear, or random junk in your drawers, today we have got a very quick plan to fix it. We are gonna talk about matching socks, we’re gonna talk about organizers, we’re gonna throw out.

what’s worn and unloved, we’re gonna get you into shape. Because I don’t know about you, Tonya, like my first thing I do in the morning is drink coffee, and the second thing I do in the morning is get ready. So gathering up what I’m going to wear is one of my first jobs, and I don’t wanna be mad first thing in the morning. So this feels like a good launching point for us.

Tonya Kubo (02:45)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no, I agree. And so, and this is timely for me because I just went through my socks and underwear drawer. We just did a deep laundry decluttering of everybody’s clothing and such. So, but I have a feeling that your situation’s a lot different than my situation because you have fewer people and you don’t have children in the house. So tell me what was your drawer situation before you tackled it.

Kathi Lipp (03:14)

Did you? Okay.

nice.

Yeah. Yes. Right.

Okay, so I have one big giant drawer and I was trying to kind of put things into piles. So like there was a sock pile and there was an underwear pile and a miscellaneous pile. And then also let’s talk about the nonsense that was in my drawer because that’s a running theme in this podcast. So I probably would win.

Tonya Kubo (03:38)

Mm-hmm.

You

Kathi Lipp (04:01)

the award for the strangest thing kept in my underwear drawer, which was a footprint of one of my chickens who has passed. I…

Tonya Kubo (04:16)

see why you would keep it in the underwear drawer though.

Kathi Lipp (04:18)

I didn’t know what else to do with it. And so like it was one of those things where I, yeah, I just didn’t know what, I think a lot of things that we don’t know what to do with end up in that kind of drawer. Okay, do tell me.

Tonya Kubo (04:33)

I’ll make you feel a little bit better, Kathi. So in mine,

baby teeth, because where are the kids guaranteed not to look, right? They’re not going to dig through mom’s underwear. The second thing is during the pandemic, right? I couldn’t go to a salon and get pedicure. So I bought like all the salon stuff and all the extra like foot files and that thing that looks like a bar of soap, but is actually like porous that they scrub your foot with. I have one of those in my underwear drawer. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (04:38)

Yes, yes, I… Right, exaca. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yes, right?

Okay,

yes, yes.

Tonya Kubo (05:03)

Yeah.

So and then I have like just random stuff. have markers, Sharpie markers that I didn’t want Abby to get into to draw on the walls. Put them in my underwear drawer, of course. So there you go.

Kathi Lipp (05:10)

Yes.

Look,

and why do receipts end up there? That’s a good question. Receipts, phone chargers, things like that, right?

Tonya Kubo (05:20)

Yeah. Right.

Totally. Totally true. Okay. So we got a picture of your drawer and all the randomness. What was that like during your day to day life? I imagine you weren’t having to take out the chicken foot imprint every single time to get ready, but still there was probably like, I don’t know, some wasted effort.

Kathi Lipp (05:36)

No,

Okay, well, I’m admitting all my foolishness in one place, okay? So why did I have socks in there that the elastic was blown out on? I think I was just so happy that I matched the sock that I didn’t care if I actually liked the sock.

Tonya Kubo (05:58)

Right?

My college roommate used to say, if it’s washed, it has to be worn before you can get rid of it. Otherwise you wasted the effort of washing. Yeah. So any things she would like come out with like, holey underwear. And she’s like, no, I have to wear these, but as soon as I wear them, I will throw them away. And I’m like, I would throw them away now actually.

Kathi Lipp (06:10)

I totally get that.

Okay. Yes.

my goodness. Yes. Because what if you end up at the hospital with holey underwear? I’m, you know, like this is deeply embedded in me, but here’s the thing, something that I haven’t really talked with you a bunch about, you know, I have, you know this, I have a bad back and I have done a lot of strength training and everything like that. And you know, they show all these commercials for people, for shoes to put on.

you know, when it’s hard for you to bend. And for me, it’s just one side of my body. What they don’t talk about is the socks. The socks, shoes are not a problem for me. It’s the socks. And so here’s the problem. If one of my, I tend to watch, wear those no-show socks because I’m a Gen Xer. That’s what we prefer. And if one of those socks slips down while I’m in the middle of Costco,

Tonya Kubo (06:53)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:20)

It’s not going back up. Yeah, and so like those need to be gone friend. Those need to be gone. Yeah, it’s my secret chain. Okay, so it was frustrating. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (07:20)

yeah, yeah.

Okay, it was frustrating.

But you’re on the other side, Kathi You are teaching us from the other side. So, and what I love about the series that we’ve been talking about, where we’re tackling these small spaces, is your solutions are just simple and yet with high impact. So tell me where you got started with your underwear and socks drawer.

Kathi Lipp (07:37)

I am.

Yes.

Okay, removing all the single socks. Like, okay, why are single socks there? I think what I thought was, well, when I find the other single sock, I will go back there. What I finally did is I just have a bag with single socks, and after a little while, like, I’ll gather all of them up, and I’ll say, these have been in here for three months. Now, if I don’t find them in the next go around, they need to be thrown away. But also, throwing away socks where

Tonya Kubo (08:16)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:26)

The elastic is blown out on them. They’re not the ones I like. They feel funny on my feet. Now, let me also say, when I was a single mom, it didn’t matter if they felt funny on my feet. I was keeping them because I was broke, right? But can we all agree if your underwear is falling down, it’s time to throw it away. If it’s cutting off your circulation or something like that.

Tonya Kubo (08:30)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Kathi Lipp (08:56)

I need you to throw those things away because that’s not how we should be living. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (09:00)

Exactly. Well, I would say if

anything that is supposed to be contained is falling out, you deserve to throw them away.

Kathi Lipp (09:07)

Exactly and let me also say with those single socks. I finally just realized I need to keep those in The laundry room so when I’m done folding laundry if there’s a sock left over I can put that where the other socks go instead of having to do a sock scavenger hunt before I try matching things up

Tonya Kubo (09:16)

Mmm.

Right?

Okay, so you had one spot for your random socks. You talked about getting rid of your worn out unwanted items, right? So the socks that slipped down, the undies that just have lost their containment factor. So once you get rid of all the bad stuff, then what?

Kathi Lipp (09:34)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

They’re not doing it anymore. Yes, exactly.

I’ll also say on the underwear anything you’d be embarrassed to show up at the hospital with you know let’s just go ahead and say you know Stains you know things like that whatever you need to do. Just be done with it. Okay, so now what I’ve done is I’ve used a couple of organizational solutions, so I Don’t know it’s called a honeycomb organizer and Okay, so it is

Tonya Kubo (10:02)

Mm-hmm.

I have no idea what that is. Talk to me, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (10:21)

You put it down in your and I’ll link all of this in our show notes so you can see what I’m talking about. But it’s got like a bunch of little squares. They’re more like trying like diamonds that when you undo this and you can put a pair of socks in there or you can put a pair of underwear in there. So it’s not just a giant pile, but you can see everything you have. And for me,

Tonya Kubo (10:35)

Got it.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:50)

And I think for a lot of people who struggle with clutter, when things are hidden, they’re no longer used. And so this says, no, this is what you have and you can go, I just love going to my drawer and plucking out that orange pair of no-show socks. Nobody’s gonna see them, but I know that they’re there and it makes me so happy. And I can see everything I have. And then I have some small fabric boxes for things like bras or sports bras.

Tonya Kubo (10:55)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (11:18)

tights, underwear, things like that. It just is a way of being able to see everything. Now, I’ve ordered those off of Amazon, but if you are, you know, if money is a struggle right now, which it is for a lot of people, could you use a shoe box? Could you use a tiny shoe box for little kids? At one point in my life, I use cereal boxes for organization. just…

Tonya Kubo (11:47)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:48)

I

had to because I had no money. So those are things you could use. So try using multiple smaller boxes with out lids and that can really help you keep organized in some of, it’s just a drawer divider that will get you to the next step.

Tonya Kubo (12:05)

Ooh, okay, well I am excited because we are going to go on a break, but when we come back, you’re actually going to answer probably one of the most often questions, often asked questions that we get in Clutterfree Academy, which is how many pairs do you actually need? Seriously, Kathi, that question comes up all the time. Plus you are going to tell us what to do with those items that don’t belong. We’ll be right back.

Kathi Lipp (12:08)

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:32)

All right, we are back Kathi and you are going to tell us the secrets of the universe as it relates to underwear and socks drawers. How do we figure out how many pairs of socks and underwear we really need?

Kathi Lipp (12:37)

Yeah

I think the first thing you have to figure out is how often do you do laundry? Because if you’re doing laundry just once a week, figure out how many pairs of underwear, how many pairs of socks you wear in a week. And I would say add two or three, right? Because you want to be able, but if you’re doing laundry multiple times a week, you probably don’t need as many. Maybe you just need divide by two, add three.

Tonya Kubo (12:52)

Hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:17)

So I think really using your scientific method here and saying, what do I actually use? And if you’re like, I don’t know, that doesn’t feel like enough, that feels weird, that feels scary, then what I’ll suggest you do is put in the amount that feels comfortable in that space. So maybe eight pairs of underwear feels good in that space. Do you ever run out?

Tonya Kubo (13:17)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:44)

That’s a great question. Do I ever run out of that space? I tried to dial back to eight. It didn’t really work for me because sometimes I’m wearing more than a pair in a day. know, sometimes when I’m changing for bed, like whatever, everybody has their own routine. So you have to figure out what actually works for you. And I think that that’s okay to do. I also have different kinds of socks. I have the no-show socks and then I have the socks I wear in the snow.

Tonya Kubo (13:45)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (14:12)

So eight pairs of socks is not going to be enough. When it’s cold outside, I need more heftier socks. So you just have to apply a little bit of the scientific method. One thing that really helped me figure this out though, Tonya, was when I, in addition to that honeycomb organizer I talked about and the different little boxes, I put drawer dividers in my drawers.

Tonya Kubo (14:20)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:41)

These are spring loaded so that they fit the short ways in your drawer. So I have now a section for underwear, a section for sports bras, a section for regular bras. It’s like putting drawer dividers in there so that you can section out your space. And that really said, this is how much space I actually have.

Tonya Kubo (14:41)

you

Okay.

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Kathi Lipp (15:07)

for my bras. This is actually how much space I have for my slips or tights or whatever it is. And that really helped me out.

Tonya Kubo (15:08)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

I love that. I love that. And I think that, you you brought up some good points about not just laundry schedule, but also habit. For instance, like when I used to, I used to work out six days a week, not the life I currently live, but I would like there was the workout underwear that served a certain purpose. There was the day to day underwear that served a certain purpose. So that was a time in my life when I needed a lot more than I need now. But I love that idea of combining

Kathi Lipp (15:26)

Yeah. Okay.

Yes, right, yes.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (15:43)

the physical space that you have to fit the things with the laundry schedule. I think that’s really powerful.

Kathi Lipp (15:46)

Yes.

And Tonya, we are not minimalists, but we are minimal-ish. We are always determining what is the least amount of an item that I could live with that still serves its purpose. Minimalists might say, no, I’m going to arrange my life around only having

Tonya Kubo (15:53)

No.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:16)

you know, five pairs of socks. No, we’re going to arrange our socks out of our minimal need that we actually have.

Tonya Kubo (16:17)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, like when we were just going through our stuff, you know, I settled on 13 pairs of underwear. Why? Because I just, because actually it was like, these are my favorite, like these are my favorites, right? And then I made an Amazon mistake, which I’m just sharing with our listeners in case they make the mistake. So sometimes on Amazon, you think you’re ordering one thing and it come to find out you are ordering a package of multiple things. And so I had wanted to get some of those long boxer shorts.

Kathi Lipp (16:31)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yes! Yes!

Yes. Right.

Tonya Kubo (16:55)

to wear underneath dresses. And I wanted a black pair and a white pair and I accidentally ordered packages of eight pairs each.

Kathi Lipp (17:04)

Wow, fancy you.

Tonya Kubo (17:07)

fancy me with my 16 pairs of long boxer shorts that roll all the way up to your hip if you try to wear them underneath jeans. So I just decided that, you know, the 10 or so pairs that did not get worn at all did not need to be with me at all. And Brian was very happy. I think I have my own section of the donation center at this point, but. Right.

Kathi Lipp (17:10)

Right.

that’s so funny.

Right?

I love that. I love that

so much. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (17:35)

So I just want

to share, since we are sharing some Amazon links in the show notes, I just want to let you all know that you should pay attention to both the quantity and also the unit items inside the quantity that you’re purchasing.

Kathi Lipp (17:43)

It’s so true. It’s so true,

absolutely.

Tonya Kubo (17:49)

Okay, so Kathi, talk to me about brands. Because you mentioned like there’s some no-show socks that you particularly like. You like the Costco underwear. But at some point, you were using something else. How do you fit like the whole brands I love versus maybe I spent good money on this? You know the thing.

Kathi Lipp (17:56)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Okay. So my whole life has been, I spent good money on this. I need to wear it as a punishment. One of my favorite discoveries this year is the Wirecutter show. I’ve talked to you about this before. It is the New York Times Wirecutter where they do their product recommendations and they do extensive testing. One of my favorite things that we just bought, Tonya, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (18:11)

Right.

Mmm, yes, yes.

Kathi Lipp (18:36)

My life has changed, we just got a new mattress. And which is a very expensive purchase, right? Now it’s not their most expensive purchase, which by the way, they don’t recommend because they’re not crazy, but it’s a $75,000 mattress that Martha Stewart, but their product tester did sleep on it for six months to say, is this really worth it? Just to make sure.

Tonya Kubo (18:40)

Whoa.

Yeah.

just to make sure it wasn’t worth $75,000,

I’m sure.

Kathi Lipp (19:03)

Right,

she sacrificed, she goes, if I could, I would buy it, but that’s not how I’m choosing to spend my money. So I really listened and that’s how I found out about the Costco underwear, you know, and they like to recommend, hey, if you’re a normal person, this is a decent price to spend to get this decent thing. Well, you know, I’ve owned two pairs of Bamba socks in my life and I love a Bamba sock.

Tonya Kubo (19:09)

Hahaha

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:31)

But you know what, I kept on thinking I could get the same effect with these Costco brands. Now in the Costco underwear, yes, I’m getting great results. The socks, maybe it’s because I have size 11 feet, I don’t know. They’re just not the same. Can I just tell you I doubled down and I got an eight pack of Bamba socks. And I need to wear those until Jesus comes back.

Tonya Kubo (19:46)

Mm-hmm.

Go you!

Kathi Lipp (20:00)

But you know what, here’s the thing. I have bought so many pairs of socks cheaping out and they’re the ones that, you know, when I talk about rolling down my feet, Bombas has never done that to me. They’ve always treated me right. So I think if there’s a brand you love and you’re going to invest in it, then follow the directions on how to wash and dry them.

Tonya Kubo (20:03)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:27)

You know, figure out what’s gonna keep them the brand you love and stick with those brands you love. And if you’ve never tried a bomba sock before, I’ll give you a link, because man, they are just the best. I love them so much, yeah. And you can get a discount code too. So we’ll share those.

Tonya Kubo (20:46)

Okay, well, so we talked a little bit earlier about the weird stuff in the drawers. What’d you do with your weird stuff and how do we prevent just wedging any old thing in our underwear and socks drawer?

Kathi Lipp (20:50)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

So like what I just talked about with the bombas, you want to go to your drawer and everything in there is something that you use and you love and would buy again. The chicken footprint, maybe not. Maybe not. So do you have a place that things that are meaningful to you, but they don’t really have a place in your life?

Tonya Kubo (21:07)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:23)

So one of the things I have committed to myself to do is I’m gonna display that footprint. I’m gonna find a place in the house for it. And it doesn’t have to be, it doesn’t have to be a big place on my wall. It could just be something that I love. Other things that I found in there. Sometimes I put things in there because I can’t decide. And if I can’t decide and I haven’t used it in this long, like I got these.

Tonya Kubo (21:29)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (21:52)

Like I don’t even know how to describe them. They’re like they smell good. They’re supposed to be atomizers, but I don’t really know how I don’t know. They’re weird. I have never used them. I’m just going to throw them away and it’s okay. So only keep things in there that are meant for that drawer. Do you have a box you could put things in? Like these are meaningful to me, but I don’t have a place for them right now. It’s okay to have some precious memory places in your life.

Tonya Kubo (22:03)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and you know, as we wrap up sort of this discussion on the underwear and sock drawer, you know, we’ve talked about in some cases, you’ve got like seasonality that you need to think about. I think for most of us, socks and underwear aren’t seasonal. I know for me, I do have four pairs of like really thick socks that I’ll wear with boots versus my thinner summer socks. But I think you can just honestly tuck them into the back corner of the drawer or just get a small bin if you need to. Would you do anything different?

Kathi Lipp (22:30)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, right.

Nope, you know, the only thing I do differently is I do have fall boxes that we put upstairs and sometimes I’ll put some of those things in there because I know I’m not going to need them before fall. But you know, we’ve got a weird situation here.

Tonya Kubo (23:03)

Yeah. So, okay. So this wraps up our steps that we have gone through socks and underwear drawer. I don’t think we’ve ever spent quite so much time discussing such tiny aspects of clothing, but hey, this is an important thing. I’m curious though, Kathi, socks and underwear, it feels like it can get out of hand easily. How do you keep it tidy once you’re happy with how it is?

Kathi Lipp (23:14)

Yes? Yeah.

Just keep going back to that drawer and saying, does this make me happy? And if you have kids that you’re working with them on that drawer, like are you actually wearing these things that are in the back corner? Look at the bottom of the drawer. Are the things that are never getting daylight? Not that your socks and underwear should get too much daylight. But if they’re not going through the laundry on a regular basis, it may be time to just say, you know what, we don’t need these anymore.

And that’s okay, that’s okay. That’s why I really suggest getting brands you love so that you’re not re-buying mistake after mistake, because I’ve done that. I’ve wasted a lot of money doing that instead of just buying what I love, because I want to go to that drawer and feel like everything in here is something that I’m happy to wear.

Tonya Kubo (24:16)

I love that. Okay. Absolute mic drop right there. Everything is something that you’re happy to wear. Now listeners, you want to check our show notes because we have a simple downloadable guide for transforming that old sock and underwear drawer into a tidy functional space, following the tips that Kathi shared today. And we’ve got links to all the cool stuff that she mentioned, the Bamba socks, the Costco undies. I don’t know what else, but I’m sure, the honeycomb organizer. I almost forgot about that, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (24:43)

Yes, yes,

very important.

Tonya Kubo (24:46)

And

we cannot wait to hear from you next time. Now, Kathi, thank you so much for breaking this down, spending the amount of time that you have in helping us really make sense of this small but important to function space. Any other things you want to add before we close off?

Kathi Lipp (25:02)

Yes.

And we have all been in that broke place where we’re just happy to have any underwear. And I also want you to curate your life. I want your underwear drawer to be the least stressful part of your day. That’s my goal with this podcast.

Tonya Kubo (25:26)

I love that. I love that. Okay. Well, you have been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I am Tonya Kubo with Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#662 – How I Organized My Pots & Pans Cupboard: Simple Solutions for Kitchen Chaos

Mar 25, 2025 | Clutter Free, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive into one of the most dreaded and clutter-prone areas of the home: the kitchen cupboards. Whether you're struggling with chaos in your pots and pans cabinet or just need some fresh organization...

#661 – The Hidden Link Between Loneliness and Clutter

Mar 18, 2025 | Clutter Free, Overwhelmed, Podcast

In this enlightening episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp sits down with Kristin Strong, author of "Praying Through Loneliness: A 90 Day Devotional for Women." Together, they uncover the intertwined relationship between clutter and loneliness, offering...

#660 – Jesus Doesn’t Care About Your Messy House

Mar 11, 2025 | Clutter Free, Home, Mental Load, Podcast, Shame

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp welcomes author Dana K. White for their first-ever conversation about the intersection of faith and decluttering. Dana shares her personal journey from anonymous blogger to bestselling author, revealing how she...

#663 – Coat Closet Decluttering Secrets: A Step-by-Step Guide

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Apr 1, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast | 0 comments

#663 – Coat Closet Decluttering Secrets: A Step-by-Step Guide

Listen Now

In this Clutter-Free Academy episode, Kathi Lipp teams up with her favorite clutter co-conspirator, Tonya Kubo, to address a common household nemesis: the overflowing coat closet. Perfect for those with or without a traditional coat closet, Kathi and Tonya share innovative tips and strategies to transform any space into a functional launch pad for daily success.

Listeners will discover the surprising power of matching hangers and learn how to repurpose their coat closet space with hanging bins, command hooks, and even a USB rechargeable light for those darker nooks and crannies. In addition, Kathi and Tonya delve into the emotional connections tied to clothing and how to overcome them in order to achieve a streamlined, organized coat closet.

Whether you’re tackling seasonal rotations or maintaining a tidy launch pad, this episode is packed with actionable advice to help you maintain a clutter-free lifestyle all year round. Plus, be sure to check out the downloadable resource and join the conversation in our Clutter Free Academy and Clutter Free for Life communities!

Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps every day to live with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my favorite Clutter co-conspirator. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. okay. It’s time for us to come out of the closet on this one. Do you have a coat closet? Okay, see, easy. Your solution is here.

Tonya Kubo (00:23)

Hey, Kathi.

No.

My whole house

has two closets. That’s it.

Kathi Lipp (00:40)

I Tonya I don’t even know I can’t oh my goodness you know what you

Tonya Kubo (00:45)

It’s okay. It’s okay.

I wish I had a coat closet. Not gonna lie.

Kathi Lipp (00:51)

You’ve made your house work without a coat closet. Okay, so let’s talk about this in some generalities. We have a coat closet. I don’t know if you remember what that coat closet looks like, but it did not come with the house. It’s a built-in. So it’s very different kind of situation that doesn’t work for everybody, but it’s really helped us.

Tonya Kubo (00:59)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm. Yes!

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:20)

Can I just say our coat closet can become a catchall? And yeah, it’s not great. And so I want to talk coat closets today. I think a lot of listeners will identify this, that I have spent many years avoiding opening my coat closet, afraid that random stuff is going to fall out. But today we are going to share a game plan to fix that.

Tonya Kubo (01:49)

Oooooh! I like a good game plan even if it doesn’t apply to my specific situation.

Kathi Lipp (01:50)

Yes.

It’s a big promise, I’m not gonna lie. You know what, and if you don’t have a coat closet like Tonya, think of this maybe as what is your launch pad? What is the launch pad for getting out of the house? Because we all have to have that. So this is not going to directly impact you, but this may give you some ideas.

Tonya Kubo (02:05)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so you mentioned that your coat closet got a little scary. So why don’t you start us off with like, were the biggest challenges that you were facing before you got on top of it?

Kathi Lipp (02:29)

Okay, so can we, is there a word that’s multi-seasonality? okay, I just made, yeah, I get to make up words. I love that so much. So what the problem was is there were too many things living in that closet at the same time. You know, we had not only, granted, where we live, we need to keep some different things in our coat closet.

Tonya Kubo (02:36)

You just made it up, Kathi. That’s okay. You are an author. You are allowed to make up words as much as you want.

Hmm. Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:59)

Like a lot of our listeners do live in snow country, so they may need to keep a snow scraper in that coat closet. Most of our listeners don’t need to keep bear spray in there. But you know.

Tonya Kubo (03:08)

I was just gonna

say, but in your coat closet you have to keep bear spray and pain reliever.

Kathi Lipp (03:13)

We do.

And pain reliever, have some different drawers that we’ll talk about in a different episode. But the major coat area, you know, we were keeping our spring coats in there and, you know, that little summer jacket and the big heavy winter coat. There was just, there was a lot going on and it was just a great place to stash stuff. And yeah, it got a little…

Tonya Kubo (03:19)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (03:41)

It was out of control, we couldn’t find things. Things were not there when they needed to be and their coats sometimes got jammed in because we ran out of hangers. Random items on the base of it. Just, I mean, no real system, no real system.

Tonya Kubo (04:00)

Yeah, well, it sounds like it had quite the impact on just the day to day life, right? Like just it takes more time to do things when you have to like devote time to digging through.

Kathi Lipp (04:05)

Yeah.

Why do we own seven hats if we can’t find one when we need to leave the house? Like these are, yeah. Or why do we need six dog leashes if there’s never anywhere they’re supposed to be? And it wasn’t that it made me late for stuff, you know, because anywhere I’m going, it’s gonna take an hour and a half. So I left plenty of times. But we would forget stuff all the time because, you know, what was hidden was forgotten.

Tonya Kubo (04:15)

Or the right one.

Mm-hmm.

Right. So can you walk us through sort of what was the first move there?

Kathi Lipp (04:47)

Okay, so I’m not normally a big fan of this, especially for large areas, but for this coat closet, I will recommend pulling at least categories out at all at once. So things like pulling out all the coats, or maybe pulling out all the scarves, or hats, or things like that.

Tonya Kubo (04:56)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:15)

And then really deciding what did we actually need? Do I actually wear this coat? If not, it got donated. Donating good things, things in good condition. We didn’t have a lot of stuff that was in bad condition, but if it was rarely worn, one question was, okay, maybe I only wear this once a year. I have a fancy coat, okay? I have a.

Tonya Kubo (05:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:43)

It’s not fancy, but it’s a nice coat. got it for a business trip in Chicago. I rarely wear it. Does that need to be in the front hall closet? I consider that prime real estate. So I just decided to keep that in my bedroom closet and I could pull it out when I needed it. So it’s really curating what we needed in each category. Why do I have seven beanies?

Tonya Kubo (05:50)

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:13)

I don’t know, because they were, I don’t know. Yeah, maybe somebody gave me one. Let’s be honest, they were on sale at Costco. Let’s just be honest. So there were things like that, but I don’t need all of those. So the first thing really was removing those extra coats. You asked me what the first step was, it was removing extra coats and things that just didn’t need to be there.

Tonya Kubo (06:14)

I was gonna say, why did you have seven meetings? mean, no judgment, just curious.

Right.

Okay and then what came after that do you think?

Kathi Lipp (06:45)

So that’s when we, I don’t know about you, Tonya, but there was just so much nonsense, so much nonsense. Like why were tools in there? Explain to, why? I don’t know. I think, just for now, it’s so true, it’s so true. And then why was there mail in there? Like that’s not where the mail goes.

Tonya Kubo (06:58)

Well, cause you put it there just for now until you decide where you really want it, right?

no, no, I understand. I will explain why there was mail there. Because you came inside the house and you had the mail in your hand and you had your coat on. And so you put the mail down so that you can take off your coat. But while you’re taking off your coat, another idea entered your brain. And so you pivoted around and you went to go take action on that other idea, completely forgetting.

Kathi Lipp (07:13)

Okay, please tell me.

Yes, yes, yeah.

Yes.

Go.

Tonya Kubo (07:36)

that your mail is inside the coat closet. The same thing is also what happens to your remote control. Mine’s usually in the fridge.

Kathi Lipp (07:42)

my goodness. my goodness. Okay, I’ve never done that. That’s impressive. I have to say. Ours gets lost in the bed sheets all the time. And then in the middle of the night, we’re like, why? Why did friends just pop on? Because Moose was walking across the bed. Yes. Okay, we each house has its own problems, right? Yeah. So to really decide, like each space in your house has to have its own purpose. And so I need

Tonya Kubo (07:47)

all the time.

You

No.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:10)

It’s okay for me to put the mail on the front table as long as I’m putting the mail the same place each time and the coat closet is probably not it.

Tonya Kubo (08:15)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, the coat closet’s not it because a coat closet has a door. You will never see the mail again. That’s just what happens. Okay, so, you know, I hesitate to ask this question because I think some people are gonna roll their eyes and go, gee whiz, Tonya, it’s a coat closet. You can’t have emotional connections to your coats. But I happen to know that our listeners and our community members who are over in Clutterfree Academy and Clutterfree for Life struggle with emotional connections.

Kathi Lipp (08:25)

Yes, exactly. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (08:51)

to items that other people don’t understand. So I’m curious, was there any of that as you were going through your coat closet, anything where you felt emotionally connected to having it there or where you really felt strongly about needing it to be there just in case something were to happen?

Kathi Lipp (09:08)

Okay, so not this version of the coat closet, but I will talk about the version we had at our house in San Jose and That was the army green jacket that I had in Japan and You know what? Okay, so Some of the best memories I had in my life before I married Roger Happened in that army green jacket now. I will also say

Tonya Kubo (09:15)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:37)

I did not wear that same size army green jacket for a very long, pretty much my whole first marriage and much of my second marriage, but I couldn’t get rid of it. And so what finally made me get rid of it, this is so embarrassing. I had some dog treats in it apparently, and we had a little bit of an infestation at our house. And yeah.

Tonya Kubo (09:46)

Yeah.

Hmm.

yeah, that happens.

Kathi Lipp (10:05)

And so we had to get rid of the jacket. yeah, it hung in my house without being used for years and years and years. And what I wish I would have done was give it to somebody. Because there’s some kid, some emo kid would have loved that jacket. I could have given it to Lily at some point, right? Yes, yes.

Tonya Kubo (10:16)

Yeah.

Yes, yes!

You totally could have given it to Lilly. You totally could have.

Because she was definitely in an army green phase before she was in her black on black phase, which is where we’re at right now.

Kathi Lipp (10:33)

Yes, and

we all have some of those things that it’s like, okay, I’ll get back into it. Or you know what, maybe somebody will come visit me at the house and they need an army green jacket. know, like, these are all things. And when you have chaos like that, you don’t use the stuff that you have. It’s really, we stash things in there because we’re thinking we’ll deal with it later. Like you said earlier,

Tonya Kubo (10:46)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (11:01)

But today, let’s all handle that. Let’s handle our business, Tonya. Let’s, yeah, yes.

Tonya Kubo (11:05)

Yeah, let’s handle the business for the here and now as

it comes. So, okay, we’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, you are gonna talk to us about matching hangers. I’m very curious about hearing more of this. Hanging bins and more. All right, so we’ll see you after the break.

Kathi Lipp (11:18)

Yes, okay. Yes, yes.

Tonya Kubo (11:26)

All right, well, welcome back. So Kathi, I can’t remember if I heard this on a Facebook live you did or if it was something you did in our membership community, but I have heard you in the past say that matching hangers can transform the look of any space that has hangers instantly. I need you to tell me more about

Kathi Lipp (11:34)

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so you said in our last podcast episode that you think every space in our house could potentially be one that brings us joy when we go there. And can I tell you one of the cheat codes to joy is matching hangers. And here’s what I love about that. And it doesn’t have to be expensive hangers. I will tell you for my personal closet upstairs, I have those thin black.

Tonya Kubo (11:57)

Mm-hmm.

I believe that.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:16)

Velvet hangers the joy hangers Roger hates those with a fiery passion Okay, is it because they are Superman and they feel like they have to get dressed very quickly and the velvet slows them down Is it a textural issue? What is it for these guys? Okay, I Like them like that. Yes. Yes in our one of our guest rooms. We have matching

Tonya Kubo (12:17)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brian feels the same way. I love mine.

Brian says they’re too thin. That’s why I like them. I like them because they’re so thin.

Kathi Lipp (12:43)

red plastic hangers. They’re not fancy, but they get the job done. But in my coat closet, we have, and I’ve got a link to them. They’re just wood hangers. They’re not crazy expensive, but they look so nice. And here’s a couple of reasons why I like them. One, the hangers go back to the closet they’re supposed to go to. Can I say that again? The hangers go back to the closet they’re supposed to.

Tonya Kubo (12:44)

Mm-hmm.

you

Kathi Lipp (13:12)

So Roger doesn’t have wood hangers hanging out in his closet. I don’t have white plastic hangers from his closet hanging out in mine. And it curates your closet. If you have 12 hangers in your closet, maybe that’s eight for your coats and then four for guests. That’s plenty. That’s what we need. And there are only two people living in my house. Your house, but it also makes it look put together. It’s a very simple way.

Tonya Kubo (13:31)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (13:41)

for it to visually come together very, very quickly. I love them. And it prevents coat pileups, know, those hangers that, you know, they just make me want to keep the space looking good.

Tonya Kubo (13:54)

Yeah, yeah, I could see that. Well, and especially, like I can even see an application just household wide if everybody had their own like designated hanger, then you’re putting laundry away. It’s very easy to pick out whose stuff is whose. So I really like that idea. So, okay. So, but there’s some things I think that go in coat closets. I say I think because I currently don’t have one, but I used to have one.

Kathi Lipp (14:03)

Yeah. Right.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Yes. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (14:18)

that don’t go on hangers, hats,

gloves, grocery bags. I mean, it depends on what you do, right? What do you do about that stuff?

Kathi Lipp (14:23)

Yeah.

Yes. Okay,

I’m gonna give you the best solution. I got these hanging baskets. They’re three tiers of hanging baskets. They hook on just like a hanger. So it’s got two hooks and it takes up a little bit of space, but we have one for gloves. We have one for scarves. We’ve got one for those grocery bags. I want you to think about it like this.

Tonya Kubo (14:37)

Okay?

Kathi Lipp (14:51)

What do I need to launch when I go out of the house? And if I open that coat closet, mine has two doors. That’s why if you’re watching the video here on YouTube, you will see me opening with two doors. But if you have those spaces, you can just open up and say, here’s everything I need to leave the house. And so having those hanging bins,

Tonya Kubo (14:57)

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (15:17)

gives you things like, we have one for all of our moose supplies, know, so those, you know, poop bags and leashes and collars and things like that, reusable bags, bear spray, like there’s a space for everything. So nothing is on the bottom floor of that coat closet that you don’t want to be there.

Tonya Kubo (15:21)

Mm-hmm.

Great, okay, so you are always so good. This is the problem when we reverse roles is Kathi, you are always so good at counting us out and I have not been counting us out. So when it comes to decluttering the coat closet, so step one was you got rid of the coats you no longer wear. Step two was you don’t advocate this normally, but in the case of a small space like a coat closet, pulling everything out that doesn’t belong and then going through it and only putting the stuff back that makes sense. And then.

Kathi Lipp (15:50)

Yeah, that’s okay.

Yes.

Right. Right.

Tonya Kubo (16:09)

For step three, we talked about the matching hangers and just how that just feels good to look at. And then step four is hanging bins for the small items, the hats, the gloves, the grocery bags, bear spray in your case. All right, take me to step five.

Kathi Lipp (16:13)

Mm-hmm.

It feels great.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so we like to have in our coat closet our car keys wallets purses and Yeah, we’re putting a lot in that coat closet so I want to be able to see what I have and we we introduced the USB rechargeable light that you can put in by a magnet This is another great place for it if your coat closet doesn’t already have a light

Tonya Kubo (16:44)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:58)

Or maybe your coat closet is in a hall where there’s a light outside the hall, but there’s not one inside. May I highly suggest, and we’ll put it again in the show notes, this USB light that is just installed with a magnet. You don’t need to rewire anything. It will give you, you can see into every nook and cranny. But the other magical thing in here, the thing I cannot live without, command hooks. I love.

Tonya Kubo (17:24)

yes, we like those at our house

too.

Kathi Lipp (17:26)

Yes,

I love a good command hook. So I use a command hook. I personally, I do have a bunch of different purses for different activities. I like a good handbag, but my wallet is on a loop. And so I can just hang my wallet on a command hook. We can hang all of our keys on a command hook. You can also put, if you want to do,

Tonya Kubo (17:36)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:54)

like your grocery shopping bags. If you don’t wanna put them into one of those hanging bins, you could put those on a command hook. You can use those for a million different things and they just make your life so, so much better. Dog leash, other small items, you use accordingly.

Tonya Kubo (18:02)

Mmm.

Yeah, and so with the command hooks, you and we’ll link to those in the show notes as well. Those are nice because they attach with adhesive in most cases. And so you don’t have to worry about making holes anywhere or like, I don’t know, but if I have to put a screw or a nail in something suddenly that feels like home improvement and I’m not all about that life.

Kathi Lipp (18:23)

Yes.

Yes, right.

It’s a different level. What we’re talking about here, everything that we’ve shared about is A level. Or is it D, you know, is it F level? Let’s say it’s F level and A level is redoing your bathroom. No, we’re talking about stickers and hooks. That’s what we’re talking about here. Magnets, yes.

Tonya Kubo (18:37)

Yeah.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and so Kathi, you are the person who taught me about seasonal stuff, right? Because I grew up in a studio apartment with my mom, I’m used to everything being in one space all at the same time. But the last episode, we were talking a little bit about seasonal stuff, and we’re talking about seasonal stuff now with the coat closet especially. How do you rotate things or do you?

Kathi Lipp (19:05)

Right.

Right. Right.

Yeah.

And, Tonya, let’s also say you grew up in central California, where the seasons are not quite as different as they are in Minnesota. Right, exactly. And broiling hot, yes. So, yes, but living up here, I have definitely learned about seasonality. And so we just have a little space in our garage for out of season. So the same bin is either

Tonya Kubo (19:28)

Cold, not cold. That’s all we got.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:49)

summer or winter right now because we’re recording this in February, it’s going out in March. We have all of our bug spray, our sunscreen, all of that kind of stuff out in our garage in a bin and inside we have our scarves, our gloves, our ice scraper, that kind of thing. So think of your coat closet or your launch pad, whatever it is.

Tonya Kubo (20:11)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:16)

as one of the most valuable pieces of real estate in your house. And when you redo this, keep everything out of there that you are not potentially going to use in the next week or so. So like right now, I don’t have my summer jacket hanging in there. Yeah, and so just what I could open up and say, you know what? I have a purpose for almost everything in here in the next couple of weeks.

Tonya Kubo (20:30)

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay, one more question, Kathi. What about the floor? Because I know some people have a strict, like, nothing goes on the floor rule in a closet. I know that you happen to be a space maximizer, so I have a feeling that you’ve got some solutions there.

Kathi Lipp (20:47)

Yes. Yeah.

Right.

Guess.

So here’s what I would say with that is that, you know, if I leave room for things like when my kids had backpacks for school, or if you have a folding grocery cart, if you live in a really urban area, you probably have a folding grocery cart that needs to go somewhere. Or do you have a bag of library books that need to be returned? You know, what?

Tonya Kubo (21:12)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:30)

whatever I grab on my way out, I also, if I was going to work every day, I might have my computer backpack there. Right now, those things are probably existing in your living space because on the floor of your coat closet is nonsense because that’s what was on the floor of my coat closet. So, you know,

Tonya Kubo (21:39)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:59)

So what I personally have on the floor of my coat closet, and my coat closet isn’t like a full length thing, it’s a half length thing, but I have cooler bags because when we go to town, I’m going to use a Costco cooler, at least in the winter, to put in my fresh meat and stuff. In the summer, we’re bringing our Yeti. Like that’s a different thing. But…

Tonya Kubo (22:19)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (22:23)

What do you actually use and need to be there? It should not be long-term storage for things you don’t touch all year. It’s things that you actually use. And if your kids could put their backpacks there, if you could put your work backpack there, I think that’s a great use of space.

Tonya Kubo (22:30)

Yeah.

Okay, and so now we get to the part where we’ve got to talk about the nemesis of all of our cluttery peeps. We’ve got the coat closet all beautifully decluttered, organized. How do we keep it from getting junked up again?

Kathi Lipp (22:45)

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Yeah, so when you bring new items in, remove something old. You know, the one in, one out. You know, when you think about coats, we probably don’t need 40, okay? Roger and I both need a nice coat. Think church or going out to dinner. An everyday winter coat, an everyday lighter coat, and a raincoat. If I get a new coat, I get rid of an old one.

Tonya Kubo (23:11)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (23:23)

Now, you may have more coat needs, that’s okay. But do you have 20 coat needs? And do they all need to be in that coat closet space? What if you picked the three or four coats that you use most of the time and use that? And then also, as you’re changing things over from winter to summer, just clear it out.

Tonya Kubo (23:24)

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (23:52)

Do I need to get rid of more coats? Do I need to get rid of some of these scarves? The other thing is, do you need seven scarves? Do you need 12 beanies? Do you need all of those mittens and gloves? Think about what do you actually use and what do you actually need? That’s the maintenance you need to do. And can I tell you, once you get this set up, your maintenance is gonna be so minimal. It’s gonna take five minutes.

Tonya Kubo (24:18)

Well, I was gonna say like maximum would be about 20 minutes a week, right? Like five minutes a day. If you can just do a quick swipe through, especially during the times of year where your coat closet is in more heavy use.

Kathi Lipp (24:22)

Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

Right, absolutely.

Tonya Kubo (24:33)

my goodness, Kathi, thank you so much. These have been great tips. I especially appreciate all the resources that we’re going to have available in the show notes, mainly because that’s how I access them after the episodes as well. Like I probably use our website more often than anybody else around here. Any final thoughts, encouragement, tips that you would give to our listeners?

Kathi Lipp (24:40)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

I love it.

How do you want to start your day? If your coat closet could be your launch pad to say, this is where my keys are. This is where, maybe you keep your lunch bag there after work or something like that. But how do I want to approach my day each day? Do I want to be able to find things in there easily? Do I want to be able to know where my coat is?

I think the reason that we don’t use our coat closets so much is because they’re filled with nonsense. At least that’s why I wasn’t using it. Instead of thinking, you know what, this is a tucked away space for things that I use every single day. Your space should be stuff that you use at least five out of seven days a week. So if you think about it that way, it’s really going to curate what belongs in that space and what doesn’t.

Tonya Kubo (25:28)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

beautiful tips. So we’re gonna curate what belongs in the space and what doesn’t. And we’re doing that by, just to summarize the steps, removing the unwanted coats, unwanted stuff that’s extra in that space. We’re gonna pull out the items that don’t belong, get matching hangers. You’ll thank us later, cause they’re beautiful. Hanging bins are ideal for those things that don’t hang. And then of course, command hooks, get that rechargeable light. I don’t know about you, but I’m running out to get one today.

Kathi Lipp (26:05)

Mm-hmm.

They’re so great.

Tonya Kubo (26:16)

and

rotate things seasonally. Not everything needs to live in the same space, same time all year long. Now, I believe we’re going to have a download available with all these tips in our show notes, right? You’re so excited. This was all Kathi’s idea, guys. I would never think of this, so just know that. Kathi thought of this because she knows you well. And we want to hear, so we want you to download that resource from our show notes, but then we want to hear from you over in the free Facebook group and you can find

Kathi Lipp (26:22)

Mm.

We are! Yes!

Tonya Kubo (26:44)

all the links, all the information in the show notes. Kathi, thank you for letting me interview you. This has been so much fun.

Kathi Lipp (26:51)

my goodness.

You know what? And I love doing this because it inspires me in these spaces and I need the inspiration just like everybody else.

Tonya Kubo (27:00)

Oh, I feel the same way. listeners, I just want to say thank you for hanging out with us for this 25 minutes or so. You have been listening to Clutterfree Academy. I’m Tonya Kubo with Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#662 – How I Organized My Pots & Pans Cupboard: Simple Solutions for Kitchen Chaos

Mar 25, 2025 | Clutter Free, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive into one of the most dreaded and clutter-prone areas of the home: the kitchen cupboards. Whether you're struggling with chaos in your pots and pans cabinet or just need some fresh organization...

#661 – The Hidden Link Between Loneliness and Clutter

Mar 18, 2025 | Clutter Free, Overwhelmed, Podcast

In this enlightening episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp sits down with Kristin Strong, author of "Praying Through Loneliness: A 90 Day Devotional for Women." Together, they uncover the intertwined relationship between clutter and loneliness, offering...

#660 – Jesus Doesn’t Care About Your Messy House

Mar 11, 2025 | Clutter Free, Home, Mental Load, Podcast, Shame

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp welcomes author Dana K. White for their first-ever conversation about the intersection of faith and decluttering. Dana shares her personal journey from anonymous blogger to bestselling author, revealing how she...

#659 Simple Soups for a Meaningful Lent Season

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Mar 4, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Podcast, Spiritual Renewal | 0 comments

#659 Simple Soups for a Meaningful Lent Season

Listen Now

Are you looking for a simple way to bring more meaning to your Lenten season while also creating space for family connection? In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo share their love for soup and how it can become a meaningful Lenten practice for your family.

For many, Lent represents a time to simplify, focus on what matters most, and create space for spiritual growth. Kathi and Tonya explain how incorporating a weekly soup tradition can help achieve these goals while also solving the “what’s for dinner?” dilemma.

Listeners will discover:

Why soup is the perfect one-pot meal for busy families during Lent

How making soup can help reduce food waste and grocery bills

The spiritual connection between slowing down for soup and creating space for what matters

Six simple, delicious soup recipes that can be enjoyed throughout the Lenten season

Whether you’re new to Lenten traditions or looking to refresh your practice, this episode offers practical ideas to help you slow down, simplify, and savor both your meals and your time together as a family.

Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

As mentioned by Kathi: Broccoli Cheddar Soup

Ingredients:

4 tablespoons butter, divided

1/2 medium onion, chopped

3 cloves garlic, minced (from recipe 1)

1/4 cup flour

2 cups low sodium chicken stock

1 tsp kosher salt

1/2 tsp black pepper

1/4 tsp ground nutmeg, optional

3 cups broccoli florets, chopped into bite size pieces

1 large carrot, grated or julienned

1 stalk celery, thinly sliced

2 cups half & half or milk

2 1/2 cups grated sharp cheddar cheese

Instructions

Melt 1 tablespoon of butter in a large Dutch oven or pot over medium-high heat. Add the onion and cook for 3-4 minutes or until softened and lightly golden. Add the garlic and sauté for another minute.

Add the remaining 3 tablespoons of butter to the pot. Once melted, sprinkle the flour over the mixture and whisk for 1-2 minutes or until the flour begins to turn golden in color.

Gradually whisk in the half & half or milk, then pour in the chicken stock. Continue to whisk and cook, ensuring the mixture is well-blended.

Add the broccoli, carrots, and celery. Bring the mixture to a boil, then reduce the heat to medium-low and simmer for 20-25 minutes, or until the vegetables are tender.

Stir in the grated cheddar cheese, salt, pepper, and optional nutmeg. Continue to stir over low heat until the cheese has melted and the soup is well-mixed. Taste and adjust seasoning if needed before serving.

Soup Recipes from Sabbath Soup

1. Chili Recipe

Ingredients:

3/4 lb. ground beef
1 cup chopped onions
1 clove garlic, minced
1 (16 oz.) can stewed tomatoes
1 (16 oz.) can kidney beans, drained
1 (16 oz.) can tomato sauce
3 tsp. chili powder
1/2 tsp. basil
1 (6 oz.) can tomato paste
2 cups chicken broth

Instructions:

In a large saucepan, cook ground beef, onions, and garlic until the onions are translucent and the meat is brown. Drain.
Stir in un-drained tomatoes, drained kidney beans, tomato sauce, chili powder, basil, chicken broth and pepper.
Bring to a boil. Reduce heat and simmer, covered, for 30 minutes.

2. Cream of Mushroom Soup

Ingredients:

2 tablespoons butter
1/2 pound sliced fresh mushrooms (cremini recommended)
1/4 cup chopped onion
6 tablespoons all-purpose flour
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/8 teaspoon pepper
1-2 teaspoons Worcestershire sauce (to taste)
2 cans (14-1/2 ounces each) chicken broth
1 cup half-and-half cream

Directions:

In a large saucepan, heat butter over medium heat. Add mushrooms and onion; cook and stir until tender.
Stir in flour, salt, and pepper until blended; gradually whisk in broth. Bring to a boil, stirring constantly; cook and stir for 2 minutes or until thickened.
Reduce heat; stir in cream and Worcestershire sauce. Simmer, uncovered, for 15 minutes, stirring occasionally.
Taste and adjust seasoning with additional salt, pepper, or more Worcestershire sauce to taste.

3. Five Spoon Interpretive Vegetable Soup

This is a flexible recipe for using up vegetables in your crisper.

Non-negotiable ingredients:

Stock (chicken, vegetable, or beef), approximately 4-6 cups
Oil (olive oil and butter preferred)
Salt and pepper

Cooking process:

Cut up the aromatics — onions, garlic, and fresh herbs. If you have celery, add it at this point. Start sautéing in oil or butter until they get some color.
Add heartier vegetables first — carrots, potatoes, turnips, and other root vegetables. Give them a few minutes. This is also when to add canned beans if using.
Add other vegetables: squash, zucchini, tomatoes, green beans, asparagus, eggplant, and mushrooms. Let these get a little color.
Can add canned vegetables (tomatoes, corn, green beans) and leftover meat at this point. Add thin vegetables like spinach, cabbage here too.
Cover vegetables with broth.

Optional spice profiles:

Mexican: Cumin, chili powder, peppers, oregano, garlic
Italian: Basil, Italian herb blend, oregano
Indian: Tandoori spices, garam masala, curry, yogurt, coconut milk, tamarind, cardamom, cumin, coriander, cilantro, fennel, garlic, saffron

Taste and adjust as you go for the best flavor.

4. Minestrone Soup

Ingredients:

2 tablespoons olive oil
1 large onion, chopped
2 carrots, peeled and chopped
2 stalks celery, chopped
3 cloves garlic, minced
1 zucchini, chopped
1 medium potato, peeled and chopped
1 can (14.5 ounces) diced tomatoes
1 can (15 ounces) kidney beans, drained and rinsed
4 cups vegetable broth
2 teaspoons dried basil
1 teaspoon dried oregano
1 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon black pepper
1/2 cup small pasta (like ditalini or orzo)
2 cups chopped fresh spinach
1/4 cup freshly grated Parmesan cheese (optional)

Instructions:

In a large pot, heat the olive oil over medium heat. Add the onion, carrots, celery, and garlic. Cook until the vegetables are tender, about 5 minutes.
Add the zucchini, potato, diced tomatoes, kidney beans, vegetable broth, basil, oregano, salt, and black pepper. Stir until everything is well combined.
Bring the soup to a boil. Once boiling, reduce the heat to low, cover the pot, and let it simmer for about 15-20 minutes, or until the vegetables are soft.
Meanwhile, in a separate pot, cook the pasta according to the package instructions. Drain once cooked.
Add the cooked pasta and chopped spinach to the soup. Stir until the spinach has wilted and everything is well combined.
Serve hot, garnished with Parmesan cheese if desired.

5. White Bean Chicken Chili

Ingredients:

2 tablespoons vegetable oil
1 yellow onion, chopped
3 cloves garlic, minced
2 (14.5 oz.) cans chicken broth
4 cans Ro*Tel mild diced tomatoes and green chilies
1/2 teaspoon dried oregano
1/2 teaspoon ground coriander seed
1/4 teaspoon ground cumin
1 pound diced cooked chicken
1 (16 oz.) can cannellini beans
2 ears fresh corn cut from the cob, or 1 can drained corn, or 1½ cups frozen corn kernels
Salt and pepper, to taste

Directions:

In a soup pot, heat vegetable oil and sauté onion over medium heat until soft, about 5 to 7 minutes. Add in the garlic and continue to sauté for 1 additional minute.
Pour chicken broth into pan. Then add the tomatoes, oregano, coriander, and cumin. Bring to a boil and simmer for 10 minutes.
Add in chicken, beans, corn, and salt and pepper to taste. Simmer on low for 10 minutes.
Serve with tortilla chips, lime, and avocado slices.

6. Greek Lemon Soup

Ingredients:

4 cups chicken broth
1/2 cup uncooked orzo or rice
Salt and pepper to taste
3 eggs
Juice of 2 lemons (about 1/3 to 1/2 cup, depending on taste)
1 cup shredded cooked chicken (optional)
Fresh chopped parsley or dill for garnish

Instructions:

In a large pot, bring the chicken broth to a boil.
Add the orzo or rice, reduce heat and simmer until tender. For orzo, this will be about 10 minutes, for rice about 18 minutes.
Season with salt and pepper.
While the orzo or rice is cooking, in a separate bowl, whisk together the eggs until well beaten. Continue to whisk and gradually add in the lemon juice.
Once the orzo or rice is cooked, reduce the heat to low. Take a ladle full of hot broth and slowly add it to the egg-lemon mixture, whisking continuously. This process is called tempering and prevents the eggs from scrambling when added to the hot soup.
Continue to slowly add another 2-3 ladles of broth into the egg-lemon mixture, making sure to keep whisking.
Once the egg-lemon mixture is warmed, slowly pour it back into the soup pot, stirring the soup as you pour.
Add in the shredded chicken, if using.
Stir the soup over low heat for 2-3 minutes until heated through. Do not let it come to a boil.
Taste and adjust the seasoning if needed.
Ladle the soup into bowls, garnish with fresh chopped parsley or dill, and serve immediately.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small daily steps to help you live with less clutter and more life. And I am here with the goddess of all things clutter-free. And I mean that in a very non-religious way. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. You know what? Because you contain multitudes. You contain multitudes.

Tonya Kubo (00:28)

Hey, Kathi. I like that I get a new title every time. It’s fun.

Kathi Lipp (00:36)

and that reflects in our titling of you. We’re gonna talk about one of my favorite things. We’re gonna talk about a couple of my favorite things. We’re gonna talk about lent and we’re gonna talk about soup. Well, you know, we’ll talk about food, but we’re also gonna talk about soup. And so as you know, soup is one of my favorite things. It’s also one of your favorite things. We are both soup fanatics. Can I just tell you, we don’t have a recipe for broccoli cheddar soup in

Tonya Kubo (00:44)

Okay?

Okay.

Mm-hmm. yes.

Kathi Lipp (01:06)

in saba soup but i made a broccoli cheddar soup last night that almost made Roger weep it was

And I do have leftovers too bad you are several hours away from me. I will post the recipe I found it online. I tweaked it just ever so slightly but I think a part part of the reason that it was so good is I bought a bag of rolls from just a supermarket, but they were the Cheesecake Factory brown bread rolls

Tonya Kubo (01:44)

All of those are so good.

Kathi Lipp (01:46)

Right? And can I tell you, can I tell you what you have to look forward to in your older age? You start to become weird about things. Roger and I have become weird about butter.

Tonya Kubo (01:53)

Sure.

I love

how you said you start to as if I’m not already weird about things like butter.

Kathi Lipp (02:06)

Yes, this is true. As you know, I have a podcast I love called Wirecutter. And this is the New York Times and they do lots of blind taste tests and things like that. And they did the butter episode. And so this is what made us buy a butter bell. So we now have a butter bell and butter bells are a part of a life. We were already buying pretty much the right kind of unsalted butter, which is the Costco. It’s very highly rated.

Tonya Kubo (02:12)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:34)

lots of fat and everything. But now we are exploring all sorts of different kinds of salted butter. So the Costco New Zealand brand of salted butter is very highly rated. So we had the broccoli soup and we were a little under the weather. That’s why I made the soup. The brown bread and the New Zealand butter. And if I never have to have another meal again, it’s OK.

Tonya Kubo (03:04)

Yeah, yeah, I would die happy with that. That’s good.

Kathi Lipp (03:04)

Yeah,

it’s really good. I will put the link to that broccoli soup recipe in the notes because I think other people would enjoy that and it goes along with our theme here. Now you grew up Catholic, but you are in rubbing shoulders distance of a lot of Lutherans and I grew up Lutheran and one thing that we did growing up

Tonya Kubo (03:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:33)

as a church, not necessarily my family, but as a church, is soup and lent were closely tied. Now, how was it in the Catholic tradition?

Tonya Kubo (03:34)

Mm-hmm.

Well, so in the Catholic tradition, you know, there would be it was more at home because I grew up in a really small town. So we didn’t have a lot of like parish wide Lenten events, but we had a lot of soup on Fridays. It was that, you know, and fish because my family’s Portuguese. So we’re all about the fish.

Kathi Lipp (03:50)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah,

yeah. So, did you understand growing up with the comp? Because I never really understood the… I just thought people liked soup, but apparently… Did you understand it growing up?

Tonya Kubo (04:14)

Eh.

yeah, we had a wonderful nun who, you know, in second grade really explained Lent to us and Catechism. So, you know, understanding the idea of simplicity and kind of removing indulgence to really focus on the sacrifice that was, you know, Christ dying at the cross.

Kathi Lipp (04:24)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so we’re going to give you the second grade understanding. So Lent, as far as what my religious tradition is, is about what are you going to give up so you can decide what you’re going to fast so you can decide what to feast. And so the fast was, you know, I remember every year they wanted us to give up chocolate. And I just thought, you know, diving into the deep end of the pool, right?

Tonya Kubo (04:43)

You

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:07)

But a lot of things that we gave up were things like meat or sometimes it was dairy products. Like none of those are my favorites to give up. I’m not gonna lie. But as I’ve gotten older, I’ve just gone to eating more simply. like we may still have some chicken, but we’re not going to, and I’m not a hard and fast lenten person. I don’t feel like.

Tonya Kubo (05:19)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:36)

the more I give up the closer I am to God. But it’s for me it’s been planning simpler meals. So maybe instead of you know I love my chicken and wild rice cream of chicken and wild rice soup. That’s one of my favorites. But maybe during this time I’m going to you know our soup of the week is going to be a black bean soup. Or it’s going to be something simple like an onion soup or something. Something that doesn’t have

Tonya Kubo (05:56)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:05)

a lot of cost to it, doesn’t have a lot of ingredients, just trying to keep it really simple. And one of the things that we grew up being told is when we experience some physical hunger, can also, we can satisfy that with less so we can develop our spiritual hunger. And it’s just a time of 40 days to be able to concentrate.

Tonya Kubo (06:28)

Mm.

Kathi Lipp (06:34)

on the things that we would love for our lives to be more centered on. Is there something that you are trying to focus more on in 2025?

Tonya Kubo (06:45)

Well, I think for us, it’s now that, you know, I’ve got a high schooler, I’ve got an elementary schooler, the opportunities together around the table are so limited. And so I feel like, you know, I don’t want to spend an hour and a half prepping a meal and then not being able to get together around the table. Like I’d much rather something simple.

like soup and then we actually can just focus on our time together.

Kathi Lipp (07:16)

Yeah, and one of the reasons I love soup is because I can make a decent size batch of it and it’s prep once, eat twice, three times. know, for your family, it might be less because there are more people. But for Roger and I, that soup is not just going to be dinner that night. It’s going to be lunch another night and then maybe enough to take to my mom’s house or to feed our neighbor or something like that. And so it does

Tonya Kubo (07:28)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:47)

really help us be able to focus on some of those things. It’s a one-pot meal too. That’s why I love it. Less dishes.

Tonya Kubo (07:56)

Well, it’s a one pot

meal. I’ve said this before, right? It’s a great way to minimize food waste, take all the bits and stuff from the week and throw those into a pot with some broth and it almost always tastes delicious.

Kathi Lipp (08:04)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it’s so true. And I love that because, yeah, like you said, when the vegetables are getting a little squishier, when the onions are starting to sprout, don’t throw those out, turn them into soup. When the celery’s getting a little flabby, don’t throw it away, turn it into soup. So.

Tonya Kubo (08:25)

you

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:36)

Let me just give you my list of reasons. Well, we’re gonna take a quick break and we’re gonna come back and I’m gonna give you my list of reasons why I think you might want to consider a weekly soup tradition for lent. And I’m not the first to come up with this. We are not the first to talk about this. But if you can go into this season of simplicity with a focus already, and we’re also gonna share a couple of.

my favorite recipes and we’ll include those in the show notes so that you’re going to be able to Really take that soup to the next level and it’s not next level of making it fancy To really be able to focus on the things that you care about. Okay, we’re gonna take a quick break come right back

Okay, friends, we are back and we are talking lent and soup. Okay, so some reasons that we already love soup. One, it’s a one pot meal. Now I will say for that broccoli, there was a lot of chopping, there was a lot of shredding. So it was half a load of dishes, but it wasn’t cumbersome. And I was able to shred enough carrots, shred enough cheese that I was able to use that for other meals. Mostly,

Tonya Kubo (09:40)

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (09:53)

The the soups that we are focusing on during Lent are going to be meatless So I have some great meatless ideas of things that you are able to do I love soup because yes, you can make it once and you can eat it several times and that’s one of my As as the main cook in the house and you’re the main cook I you Brian cooks too, but you’re the main cook. Yeah

Tonya Kubo (10:02)

Hmm.

Yes.

Yeah

Kathi Lipp (10:22)

Any meal that will do double duty and will your family eat leftovers because lots of families won’t but mine definitely will Yeah, that’s a beautiful beautiful thing you’re using like Tonya said simple available ingredients and the thing that I love most is It gives us an opportunity to have some communal meals One of the fundraisers that we did up here in Omo Ranch

Tonya Kubo (10:30)

Yeah, mine will.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:51)

was a soup night where

everybody brought different soups. And I love what they did, Tonya. they took, everybody brought their own muffin tin and they put cups in the muffin tin and did different ladles of soup so you could try everybody’s soup. And then you had recipes you could take home. I love that idea. But I love also the spiritual side of this. Soup forces us to slow down.

Tonya Kubo (11:01)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:20)

You are not going to rush a pot of soup. And in fact, if you want to have soup on Sundays, which is a lot of people’s traditions, might I suggest you cook it on Friday so that you’re just reheating on Sunday and able to do that. Soup, you cannot rush eating soup. Soup is not something you can chow down on. It’s served hot. You have to slow down. You have to blow on it.

Tonya Kubo (11:44)

Mm-hmm

Kathi Lipp (11:48)

You have to be in the moment with it. And I think to me, soup is such a symbol of abundance that we have so much leftover from our week, that celery, that onion, that chicken, that rice, that we can create a whole nother meal out of it. Did you do the Stone Soup book when you were a kid?

Tonya Kubo (11:59)

Mm-hmm.

Yep, yep, and we made stone soup in school. It’s so yummy.

Kathi Lipp (12:18)

Yes,

I remember my contribution, because we also did stone salad, was mandarin oranges. that was super fun to be able to do that. If you’re not familiar with that, might I suggest, especially if you have younger kids, to do a reading of stone soup. And you can find that story online, but you could do that for part of your Lenten practice.

Tonya Kubo (12:24)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:45)

I just think soup helps us focus on gratitude. Look at all the abundance I have that I can make something out of this. And one of my favorite type of TikTokers, Instagrammers, YouTubers are the people who are using food banks to be able to create their meals, right? And

Tonya Kubo (12:49)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:12)

What I love about these there, and I’ll put a link into one of my favorite ones, is their creativity. Like they don’t go to the food bank saying I need this, this, this, this. They receive from the food bank and they create, and I think soup is one of the meals that you could absolutely do that with. And if you’re looking to have a little bit more focus, many of you have purchased Sabbath soup.

Tonya Kubo (13:24)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (13:39)

Go in there and look at the prayers. I will add a couple into our show notes here so that you can also have those. They were written by one of mine and Tonya’s friends, Bethany Howard. She did a beautiful job with a lot of these prayers. But Tonya, I wanna talk about what are some of your favorite soup memories. We may not have the recipes here, but what are some of the soups that you grew up on for Lent? And then I’m also going to suggest

Tonya Kubo (14:02)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (14:09)

Some soup recipes and we’re going to give you links to those in the show notes

Tonya Kubo (14:14)

Yeah, so in my family during Lent, the two main soups would be a watercress soup and watercress soup. Yeah, well, and so part of why the watercress soup is such a memory is we would have to go harvest our own watercress because at that time you couldn’t buy it at the store. You can get it at stores now.

Kathi Lipp (14:21)

A watercress soup, I have never heard of that. So tell me more about that.

my goodness.

Tonya Kubo (14:39)

But

Kathi Lipp (14:39)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (14:40)

so we would have to, I don’t know where it was, but we would go to this place. My grandfather would park on the side of the road and my mom and I would walk and it felt like forever. But like try to jump over rattlesnake holes and all of these things. Cause it grows as it sounds by water. And then so having to pick it up, we had to avoid the stinging nettle because stinging nettle also grew near it. So we would harvest the watercress and we would make watercress soup. And it’s usually a mix of

Kathi Lipp (14:57)

Yes?

Uh-oh.

Tonya Kubo (15:08)

It’s watercress, sometimes onion, potatoes, and then broth, but it’s very brothy. It’s not like a thick potato soup. And then you just sip it, or if you wanna use a spoon. My grandfather liked everything cut bigger. He liked it to be chunkier. I actually blend it all together, and I like it to be smooth.

Kathi Lipp (15:13)

Okay. Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm. Okay.

So you’re using the present tense. Do you still make it? okay. I’m gonna have to try some.

Tonya Kubo (15:34)

yeah, I love it. If I can see the grocery

store, I’m not going and harvesting my own too old for that. But if I can find it in the grocery store, cause it just takes three bunches and it’s a bitter green, but with

Kathi Lipp (15:39)

No, no, yeah.

So just gonna say,

tell me what watercress is because I’ve heard of watercress sandwiches, but I’ve always thought of those as like you cut the crusts off because they’re fancy.

Tonya Kubo (15:56)

Yeah, no, it’s a little bit bitter, but it’s so good with, I like mine. Like I said, potato, onion, good chicken broth is what I use. And then I like it with a lot of black pepper. So delicious. Yeah, it makes me very happy. I’m like, I’m going to go make that.

Kathi Lipp (16:10)

okay. you know what I got?

You know what I got for Christmas this year that I am absolutely loving and is upping our pepper consumption is a battery operated pepper grinder.

Tonya Kubo (16:19)

Hmm.

Ugh.

One day, one day. So it’s that soup and then kale soup. I love kale soup.

Kathi Lipp (16:28)

Yes. Yes.

Okay, kale

soup I have had before and it was delicious. okay, do you have recipes you could share with us? Okay.

Tonya Kubo (16:40)

I do. Yeah. have a great,

it’s funny as my watercress, my watercress soup recipe was like from Women’s World Magazine. Victoria Beckham, I think is who it was, but it was like, she swore by like watercress soup to get ready for award shows. And I’m just like, well, I just like to eat watercress soup. So I use that recipe still. And then I’ve got some great kale recipes.

Kathi Lipp (16:59)

interesting, okay.

Yeah, that just sounds good.

Okay, I can’t wait. Yeah, the kale soup I have is with bacon. So maybe that’s not the same kind of emphasis. Okay, so I’m going to give you guys a couple of my recipes. So I think chili is a great lenten soup because you can do it with beans, you don’t have to do it with any kind of meat or you can use up leftover meat. I’ve even done chili with ham, which sounds different.

Tonya Kubo (17:23)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:38)

But it’s really good, it’s a lot of, you’re using a lot of onions and beans and tomatoes, things that you have cans of. You can almost do the entire soup out of cans and there’s nothing fancy that anything has to go with that. I will say the cream of mushroom soup that I made last week, maybe my favorite soup I’ve had in the past six months. It was,

Tonya Kubo (17:52)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:08)

I don’t know that broccoli was pretty good too, but the cream of mushroom soup was a killer. has a lot, I like soups with a lot of onion in them. So that makes me super, super happy. And this is, this to me is the ultimate lenten soup. I call it the five spoon interpretive vegetable soup. So it’s basically cleaning out your crisper drawer and

Tonya Kubo (18:16)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:35)

You know, there’s kind of an order that things go into it with. You you start with the potatoes because you want to get those softer and you end up with things like kale or, you know, spinach because that’s the thing that needs the least amount of cooking. And then you keep tasting it to say, does it need more salt? Does it need more pepper? Could it use more garlic? That kind of thing. But that’s one of my favorites. There’s gosh, there are so many.

Tonya Kubo (18:44)

Mm-hmm.

Do you want to hear

Brian’s favorite from Sabbath Soup? The minestrone.

Kathi Lipp (19:06)

Yes, yes I

was just gonna talk about the minestrone. he likes it. I’m so glad Yeah, you guys it’s so simple, but it’s so good and

Tonya Kubo (19:17)

He loves minestrone

soup in general, but yeah, he was, that’s his favorite out of the whole cookbook.

Kathi Lipp (19:23)

my goodness, I’m so glad. I love that people have favorites. Okay, I’m going to give you one more because I want to make sure that we have six soups here so we can have it for the six weeks. I’m trying to think of like what would, you know, I’m trying to think of our meatless one. You could do the white bean. Now it’s chicken chili, but you don’t have to have the chicken in it. If you want to go meatless, the white bean chili.

Tonya Kubo (19:31)

Hmm

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:48)

Super simple super easy. You’ve got some sauteed onions in there that they’re just gonna put it over the top It’s gonna make you super happy. You could also do the lasagna soup without any Meat with it and yeah, let’s be honest sausage makes soup taste better. I’m not gonna lie, but

Tonya Kubo (20:08)

Yeah,

my traditional kale soup recipe uses sausage because it’s delicious. What about the lemon soup in there, the Greek lemon soup?

Kathi Lipp (20:12)

Yes. Okay.

Yeah, the Greek

lemon soup. now that sometimes you can have that with chicken or without, but that’s my son’s favorite soup. And so, yeah, and I, so everything I’m talking about, I suggest a lot of pepper with, I’m not gonna lie. I like a peppery oniony soup. It’s gonna make it all taste better. So we’re not saying you go without taste, but maybe just approach the meal differently. What do I already have?

Tonya Kubo (20:25)

So good

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:46)

What can I give flavor with spices instead of meat or high, you know, expensive ingredients? What can I do with things that I already have on hand to keep it simple? What does not require a lot of fussy cooking?

Tonya Kubo (20:52)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:08)

Like,

you I made that broccoli soup. It probably took me 25 minutes to put together, but none of it was fussy. It was a little bit more labor intensive because I used fresh broccoli, because I used a hunk of cheese instead of pre-grated cheese. But I also think that those two decisions gave it more flavor. So, you know, I’m willing to make those trade-offs because

Tonya Kubo (21:25)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:36)

the better the ingredients, the better the soup. But you don’t have to use expensive ingredients, just the best ingredients you have available. So we’re gonna put those six recipes in the show notes so that you don’t have to buy Sabbath soup in order to do all this. But guys, I’m just gonna say, what can you do to make your life simpler during Lent so that you can focus on the things that you

Tonya Kubo (21:45)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (22:06)

Focus on the attributes of God. Focus on the things that God wants for you during Lent to live a simpler life, to live a plainer life, but one that is not boring. It’s not flavorless, but you’re just creating space. And that’s what I want for you. And if you’re like, I don’t even know when Lent is, Kathi. I don’t even know what we’re talking about here. So it’s March 5th through April 17th.

Tonya Kubo (22:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (22:35)

So it’s coming early this year. Like it’s right around the corner, but you guys were gonna do this together. I’ll be posting some of those recipes. Tonya, thanks for talking about this with me. food is one of our favorites, not gonna lie. And friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter-free life you’ve always wanted to live.

Tonya Kubo (22:37)

Mm-hmm.

Thanks for having me. I love to talk about food anytime.

#662 – How I Organized My Pots & Pans Cupboard: Simple Solutions for Kitchen Chaos

Mar 25, 2025 | Clutter Free, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive into one of the most dreaded and clutter-prone areas of the home: the kitchen cupboards. Whether you're struggling with chaos in your pots and pans cabinet or just need some fresh organization...

#661 – The Hidden Link Between Loneliness and Clutter

Mar 18, 2025 | Clutter Free, Overwhelmed, Podcast

In this enlightening episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp sits down with Kristin Strong, author of "Praying Through Loneliness: A 90 Day Devotional for Women." Together, they uncover the intertwined relationship between clutter and loneliness, offering...

#660 – Jesus Doesn’t Care About Your Messy House

Mar 11, 2025 | Clutter Free, Home, Mental Load, Podcast, Shame

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp welcomes author Dana K. White for their first-ever conversation about the intersection of faith and decluttering. Dana shares her personal journey from anonymous blogger to bestselling author, revealing how she...

#658 The All or Nothing Trap: Why Good Enough is Good Enough

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Feb 25, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Podcast, Spiritual Renewal | 0 comments

#658 The All or Nothing Trap: Why Good Enough is Good Enough

Listen Now

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, host Kathi Lipp is joined by her clutter buddy, Tonya Kubo, to tackle the all-too-common mindset of “if you can’t do it right, don’t do it at all”. Together, they explore how this thinking impacts our homes and hearts, and share practical tips on shifting to a more grace-filled, progress-focused approach. Listeners will learn about the power of small steps in creating a tidier home and how to redefine the standards of a clutter-free living space. Tune in to hear a bit about Kathi’s strategy for managing clutter and hear about the upcoming Clutter Free Bible Study which offers insights on decluttering beyond just your physical space.

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:11)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my friend, my clutter buddy. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (00:26)

Hey Kathi!

Kathi Lipp (00:28)

So I want to talk about something that I know that has been brought up a lot recently, especially in our paid group, Clutterfree for Life. And I know it’s something I’ve struggled with. You’ve talked about struggling with it. is. It makes me angry almost. If it’s the if you can’t do something right, don’t do something at all. If you, you know, OK.

Tonya Kubo (00:47)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (00:56)

I will say, you know, we say around here every time, you can have it half donkeyed or you can do it full donkeyed. I’m trying to say it because I know we have a lot of people listening with little ears on. you know, around here, we’re full donkey people. so, but I will say, okay, can I call out a relative here just for a second?

Tonya Kubo (01:13)

Thank you.

Kathi Lipp (01:24)

So I was helping somebody at their house recently and I had spent, I don’t know, two hours working on cleaning and vacuuming and doing all the things, right? And then I get done and the sentence was, thank you, but there are still streaks on the window.

Tonya Kubo (01:36)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:52)

And like, okay. And my goodness, it was so defeating. I’m not going to lie. I’m still a little bitter about it. I am recovering though. And you know, it’s, it, it brings up so much from my childhood, not necessarily from my parents, but from teachers, from neighbors who were like, well, if you can’t do it right, why do it at all? And I have come to learn.

Tonya Kubo (01:57)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:22)

that that was probably the motto in every house that a cluttery person has ever grown up in. How did this manifest for you as you were a child going into adulthood? Is that something that you heard and who did you hear from?

Tonya Kubo (02:42)

No, so like never really heard those words specifically at home. I mean, I think very much if you’re a child of the eighties, that’s just what you were taught, right? Child of the seventies, child of the eighties. It’s like, you can’t do something right. Don’t do something at all. I know people who grew up in like evangelical circles. There was a lot of like, you’re supposed to do everything like you’re doing it for Jesus. Would you do it like that for Jesus? No. Or if you didn’t like that for Jesus, like really?

Kathi Lipp (02:46)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Right, yes.

Tonya Kubo (03:09)

What do you think? That’s disrespectful to Jesus. But at home, again, I grew up with a hoarder who had a very interesting perspective on how other people should live. So I remember having to clean the house, like I’d be home alone, I’m supposed to clean the whole house, cleaning the whole house, and then being told that nothing I did counted because I had one fork in the sink.

Kathi Lipp (03:12)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Mmm. Ugh.

Tonya Kubo (03:38)

Right? It’s like the one fork in the sink negated the seven hours I had spent as, you know, a 12 year old cleaning an entire house on my own. And it was just always like, and then I remember, you know, going through high school, like, why should I do anything?

Kathi Lipp (03:53)

Absolutely.

Tonya Kubo (03:55)

Like why do anything

if my best will never be good enough? And I remember my cousin who I’m very close with and we grew up, she would say, okay, here’s the deal, Tonya. We’re just gonna put the wind fork in the sink and we’re just gonna leave it there. And we will know between the two of us that when she comes home, she’s gonna complain about the fork in the sink, but see, we put it there on purpose. But it never mattered to me.

Kathi Lipp (04:14)

Mmm. That’s.

That’s so hard as a kid. It really is. So the thing I want to think about here is one, how do we not do that to people we are raising? We still want, I don’t know, you know, I’ve grown up my whole life thinking we want excellence, but excellence, you know, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (04:21)

Mm-hmm.

Well, this all goes back to like my mantra,

which I’ve said here on the podcast several times, which is if I don’t have to do it, I do not judge how it gets done. Because you know what the thing is, like, you know, my mom grew up in a household where there was one way that you folded things and that was the right way and everything else was wrong. So my mom grew up in an environment where if you didn’t fold a towel where it was perfect right angles and it had to be folded in thirds,

Kathi Lipp (04:47)

It’s so true, right?

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (05:08)

The laundry basket got dumped out and you had to refold the entire load, not just the towels that were folded incorrectly, the entire load over and over and over again until every single towel was folded perfectly. So can I blame her for how she raised me? No, I can’t.

Kathi Lipp (05:16)

Ugh.

I just gonna say,

we need to give a little bit of a break to our parents who hopefully did better than their parents and hopefully we are doing better than them and our kids will do better than us. May it be so.

Tonya Kubo (05:29)

Right.

Exactly!

Mm-hmm. And I remember,

yes, and I remember one time was when Brian and I were married and I was folding towels and my mom was over and she starts like in on me, right? About like, well, if your grandmother was alive, I’m like, well, number one, she’s not. And number two, why would you, I would tell her the same thing I’m gonna tell you. Why do you care you’re not folding my towels? They’re not going in your cabinet. It doesn’t matter. But I have carried that through, which means that Lily lives out of laundry baskets. I hate it with every fiber of my being, but you know what?

Kathi Lipp (05:48)

Right?

Right, it’s not… Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:04)

She’s not asking me to find her clothes in the morning to get ready. It doesn’t affect me. So I just move on.

Kathi Lipp (06:07)

Right.

Yes, it’s so true. And you know, I’ve had to fold my towels two different ways in my adulthood because in one cabinet they fit one way and in another cabinet they fit a different way. And now I live in a space where it doesn’t matter. So anybody can fold the towels. It’s okay. If you want to come fold towels at my house, I will give you the address that Google will send you to here. Yeah. So.

Tonya Kubo (06:22)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, exactly. You are happy to full-tell your way at my house,

I’ll let you.

Kathi Lipp (06:40)

Exactly.

So here’s something that’s so interesting though. Like what I finally had to figure out is if I wanted to live in a house that met my own very mediocre standards, I couldn’t wait till I had time so I could do everything at once. Nothing in my house will all be the right right quote unquote way at the same time.

Tonya Kubo (06:54)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:10)

Because even if I have people coming over, that probably means that my bedroom is the receiving end of some nonsense. I’m just gonna make do. And so some of the things I’ve learned and some of the things that have really helped me in getting the kind of house that I want are doing things in tiny sections. So.

Tonya Kubo (07:19)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:35)

Used to wait until I could wipe the whole counter down so I’d spray the whole counter and I’d wait five minutes and then I’d wipe it all down and How often do I have time for that? Not never but now I’ll just do hey I can do the counter above the sink. So I’m gonna squirt that down I’m gonna let wait for a couple of minutes and then I’m gonna wipe all that down and Does that mean it’s how I want it to be? No, but does that mean I am closer to how I want it to be?

Tonya Kubo (07:51)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:03)

And when I come to prepare lunch later on there’s going to be a clean place for me to be able to do it huzzah You know, i’ve talked about this plenty of times on the On the podcast that my oatmeal now cooks for two minutes and 33 seconds I don’t know why the time has changed it has changed that is plenty of time for me to get at least half the dishes unloaded And that makes me so happy and I know you you’ve

Tonya Kubo (08:09)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:32)

mentioned that you thought it took like 15 minutes 20 minutes to unload a dishwasher and When you heard me talking about oatmeal, you’re like, I can get that done in about four or five minutes. Yeah, you actually can Unless you have a much bigger dishwasher than I do but doing things in sections and by the way People will tell me all the time. Well, then how does the next person know whether those are clean or dirty? I’m like, well I tell them or they ask

Tonya Kubo (08:43)

Yup.

Kathi Lipp (09:01)

Like we have communication in our house, so it’s okay. And you know, he knows I am a serial half dishwasher emptier and it’s okay. That’s totally fine. But I have struck upon this, this idea for me, and this might be helpful to somebody else out there that I am working on my house two by two by one at a time. And what I mean by that is the space

Tonya Kubo (09:02)

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:30)

is not going to be bigger than two feet by two feet and it’s not going to be deeper than one foot. And that’s a drawer or half of a drawer or half of the kitchen table or half of the living room table or half of a shelf in the garage. And because my brain tells me I’m going to wait until I have three hours on Saturday to clean out the garage.

Tonya Kubo (09:36)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:59)

There is no three hours in my entire life where I want to spend it cleaning out the garage. But 30 minutes at a time, 20 minutes at a time, most of the time it’s just 15 minutes at a time, these little things. Now, there are things that you should be excellent at. If you are giving your child medication, be the best medication giver you can be. Do everything you can to make sure that that goes well.

Tonya Kubo (10:23)

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (10:27)

When it comes to wiping down your counter, I’m okay if you get a D plus at that. And I’m okay if I get a D plus at that as well. And so, you know, I feel like one of the things that we have to do is retrain our brains against this all or nothing thinking. Tonya, we’re gonna take a little break and we’re gonna talk about an opportunity that’s coming up. And this is gonna be an opportunity for you to get a D plus in decluttering.

Tonya Kubo (10:28)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:58)

We’re going to practice getting rid of all or nothing thinking. We’re going to take a break and we’ll be right back.

Okay, we are back and we are going to practice our eliminating our all or nothing thinking. And if you listened to the podcast last week, you heard us talking about the clutter free Bible study, what Jesus has to say about your stuff. And lots of times people want to do the Bible study, but they’re like, I don’t have the time. I, I, you know, I don’t want to show up less than for the Bible study.

Tonya Kubo (11:33)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:34)

I don’t know that I have time to do the homework. so Tonya you have three levels of Bible study participate, which I love by the way, because there I think I told you I did Beth Moore’s Breaking Free probably

Tonya Kubo (11:41)

I do?

yes, you and half the nation. Including me.

Kathi Lipp (11:54)

Right, like I probably did it, yeah, 10 times. I still have

the workbook because I’ve gone back and looked at it. But there were times where I was leading the study and there were times where I was just barely making it there in my pajama bottoms. And you know what the beautiful thing was? The pajama bottoms times, I had a leader who every time just said, I’m so happy to see your face.

Tonya Kubo (12:06)

you

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:23)

You know, it wasn’t I could never do bsf. I know that people love bsf and they are transformed people but the the kind of study where if you don’t do your homework basically I I think the premise is you’re not allowed to talk unless you’ve done all your homework and You know, hey that works for a lot of people. That is not my jam

Tonya Kubo (12:27)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:47)

And so this is leaning more towards my benevolent leader in Beth Moore’s Breaking Free, how Tonya runs the Bible study. So can you tell us a little bit about the Bible study and your three ways that you can participate?

Tonya Kubo (13:00)

Mm-hmm.

So the Clutter Free Bible study is It’s a series of videos. So you watch a video We have a downloadable workbook that you can print or you can fill it online. Whatever makes you happy So you watch a video you have your workbook reflection and then once a week we gather together in the Facebook group we do a Facebook live and We have our discussion so and that

for some of you, you’re a Beth Moore study person, that’s easy peasy, right? And if you’re not a Beth Moore study person, that already feels like a lot. So the small, medium, and large tiers that I have come up with is the small version is you know what, this is important, and yet I do not have time for one more thing in my life. So what I will do is I will mark the calendar for the weekly live discussions and I will show up to those.

Kathi Lipp (13:32)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (13:56)

I’m

just gonna show up, I’m gonna listen. you know, if Tonya asks a question that I feel like I can respond to, sure, I’ll answer that question, that’s fine. But I’m just gonna show up and I’m just gonna pay attention to the conversation. Medium is I own the study, so I either have bought it fresh or I bought it years ago and I’m pulling it out. I’m watching the e-course, so I’m watching the videos, I’m looking at the workbook, fill out the questions, don’t fill out the questions, totally up to you, right? But that is medium.

I’m watching the videos, I’m at least reading through the workbook questions, and maybe even digging out my Bible app to look at what scripture says to make sure that what Kathi says the scripture says is actually what my Bible says the scripture says. That’s very important to some people, by the way. And then large is I’m gonna do all of that, right? So I’m gonna watch the videos, work on the workbook, I’m gonna participate in the live discussion, and I’m gonna pull out my…

Kathi Lipp (14:27)

Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

Okay.

Tonya Kubo (14:54)

handy-dandy copy of Clutter Free and I’m gonna follow the reading plan, right? Because the Clutter Free book is a separate purchase from the Bible study, but some people love to go through the book in conjunction with the Bible study and that is going all out. That is whole donkey, as you like to describe it. That is going whole donkey and I think every year maybe about

Kathi Lipp (15:12)

Right.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (15:21)

15 % of our study participants do the whole thing. A lot of people will start in one level and life happens as we get closer to Easter and they drop down a level. But by being able to pick whether you’re going small, medium, and large, it completely eliminates the pass or fail that most of us tend to put ourselves under.

Kathi Lipp (15:29)

Right.

Yes.

You know, I think about it, it’s kind of like exercise for me because I get down on myself so much for missing exercise. But, know, really, if I’m showing up once a week, that’s more than I was showing up. That was once a week more than I was showing up a year ago. And we’re looking for trajectory, not perfection. And yeah, we want. And so if you pick up a couple of things during this Bible study,

Tonya Kubo (16:02)

Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Kathi Lipp (16:13)

That could change your life. It absolutely could. Okay, tell us a little bit about the weekly schedule just so people know what they’re getting into.

Tonya Kubo (16:14)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

so we’re gonna kick off February 28th. And that’s where I just, I’ll explain the small medium and large plan. I will answer any questions, but I’ll kind of talk about how we approach it, how it’s very easy and gentle. And that’s also where I explain to people, because a lot of people will enter into the Bible study assuming that their house is gonna be spick and span spotless by the end of it. I explained that the Bible study is not the kind of,

decluttering process where you’re gonna see it play out in your house. It’s really about decluttering your heart and your emotions around stuff. Then we, it’s a six week discussion. So that goes from March 7th to April 11th. So you watch the videos, you do the workbook, then we come together and discuss like I mentioned. And then on Good Friday, which is April 18th, we will get together for a celebration.

in advance of Easter and then on April 20th you get to have Easter with your family but you’re all done with the Bible study before Easter begins which I think is really important because we believe in holidays and rest over here in Clutter Free Academy and even when we lead a Bible study we want to build in periods of rest.

Kathi Lipp (17:24)

Guess.

Yes.

Absolutely. We love some good rest around here because we talked about guilt in our last podcast and the guilt keeps us from resting and until we have no choice but to rest. And that’s not how I want you to earn your rest friends. It’s really not. Okay. So what are people going to learn in this Bible study?

Tonya Kubo (17:46)

Mm-hmm.

No.

Yeah, so like I said, it’s not the kind of Bible study where you’re gonna clear out spaces in your home, but it digs deep into the heart of why you keep things, what the Bible says it means to be a good steward. Because again, so often in Clutter Free Academy, we assume being a good steward means we keep everything we’ve ever bought that could potentially be useful to somebody somewhere, even if not this century. And then we also kind of,

Kathi Lipp (18:23)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (18:27)

address the perspective of building new habits. Like one exercise that is a favorite that is part of the Bible study is going to a store like Target or Walmart, whatever you have in your area, and going into the store, walking around the store, and walking out without buying a single thing. Not because it makes you holier than anybody else to do that, but to prove to yourself that walking into a store does not obligate you to buy stuff.

Kathi Lipp (18:54)

Yes, it’s so true, right?

Tonya Kubo (18:57)

And

people really believe that they can’t do it. And then they’re so proud of themselves when they can. you know, every year, people have some amazing experiences and their perspective shifts in incredible ways. And we have people who’ve been doing this every year with us since 2016. Grace Church, who’s been on the podcast before, she is the community manager over in our paid membership program, Clutter Free for Life. She joined.

Kathi Lipp (19:00)

Yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (19:25)

Like that’s how I first met her was when she did the initial Bible study and it was about three years in. So her third or fourth round with the Bible study where her big aha was that clutter was a boundary issue and that she had come so far in her life in asserting and maintaining strong healthy boundaries with people but she had no boundaries when it came to stuff.

Kathi Lipp (19:39)

Mmm.

Interesting.

Tonya Kubo (19:53)

And so, and she wrote this beautiful thing, which I need to pull out of the archives because we have it still, about how once she was able to make that association, the clutter shows that I don’t have boundaries around stuff. She was able to draw a really strong boundary about what could come into the house. And by having a strong boundary of what it was allowed in, that automatically reduced the amount of time and energy she had to spend in decluttering.

Because if she could stop it at the front door, she never had to worry about when to get rid of it.

Kathi Lipp (20:27)

Yeah. it’s so interesting. Isn’t it interesting the folklore we have built up around our stuff and about keeping stuff. And I’m going to hurt Amazon’s feelings if I return this item. And, you know, it’s just all these things. It was very interesting to me, you know, because I’m I’m an over-politer and I don’t want to bother the person who’s waiting on us on the table and stuff like that.

Tonya Kubo (20:34)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:55)

And I just saw a TikTok recently where somebody said, you’ve got a normal request and you ask politely, you are doing better than 98 % of the people who come in. And it’s like, so me asking for more ranch or whatever it is, right? You’re not going to go back into the back kitchen and say, can you believe this woman? Can you?

Tonya Kubo (21:05)

Mm-hmm.

Yup.

Right.

Right?

Kathi Lipp (21:23)

And me returning things to an online retailer, that’s part of doing business. I am not offending somebody by doing that. But there is such folklore. If I go into a store, I need to buy something. Or if I use the bathroom, I need to buy something. You know what? I think I’ve paid for my bathroom trip about 1,000 times over. I think we’re good.

Tonya Kubo (21:30)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (21:50)

I’m you know, you said you’re not going to get rid of clutter, but we can see some of our members creating new habits. And so so tell me a little bit about that. What have you seen in the past in the Bible study?

Tonya Kubo (22:00)

yeah!

Yeah, so new habits. So a lot of the habits that our members have created, so like, you know, using Grace as an example is stopping clutter at the front door, whatever that looks like. So that could be, you know, at work, somebody says, hey, do you want to take this? No, I’m good. Right? Because if I don’t take it here, right, because once it goes into my car, now it’s my job to figure out what to do with it.

Kathi Lipp (22:17)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm, right.

Yeah,

it’s so true.

Tonya Kubo (22:29)

You know,

for me, it was during the first Bible study that I started going through my mail over the recycling bin rather than bringing it into the house. So the only stuff that comes into the house is stuff I actually need or have to take action on. But a lot of folks have experienced complete shifts in their habits around shopping. So for some people, they broke the habit and Lent is such a great time for breaking habits that don’t actually benefit you.

Kathi Lipp (22:37)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:57)

They broke their habit of automatically stopping at the grocery store or stopping at any store after work or shopping out of boredom. A lot of people recognize that they go, that Target, Walmart, those kind of super stores are an emotional coping mechanism. It’s where they go when they’re lonely. It’s where they go when they’re bored and they just kind of walk around the store and they tell themselves, well, it’s just free, right? Like it would cost me money to go to the movies. It would cost me money to take a friend out to lunch.

Kathi Lipp (23:24)

Hmm.

Tonya Kubo (23:26)

I go to Target and it’s free, but then they wouldn’t think about all the things that they would buy as part of their Target habit. We talk a lot about the dollar spot, right? Or the bargain bins at stores. well, it’s totally fine that I go to Target every single week. I know I’m picking on Target, but that’s just because that’s what we have where I live. But it’s fine that I go there because I only get stuff that’s at the dollar spot. Right, but five things from the dollar spot.

Kathi Lipp (23:31)

Right.

Yeah.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (23:53)

only cost you five dollars, but it takes up the space of five things. And it’s five things that at some point you’re going to have to get rid of. And did you need it to begin with?

Kathi Lipp (24:03)

And Tonya, the other thing I’m gonna say is stores are not dumb. They know that your house feels chaotic and their house feels bright and organized and it makes sense. And those mannequins give you ideas of how you could use those things. Those displays give you…

Tonya Kubo (24:10)

Mm-mm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (24:31)

And

if I just had this thing, then my life, I know nobody is saying this to themselves, but your amygdala is saying this to yourself. If only I had those plates, then the rest of my kitchen would come together. If only I had that mail organizer, I would never have clutter again. And so the displays, the advertisements are promising a life that feels like an escape from your house.

Tonya Kubo (24:46)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (25:01)

And what we want your house to be is to be that sanctuary that doesn’t mean you feel like you have to leave it all the time to get that peace. That’s what we want for you. Okay, guys, we are going to have all the information on how to join the Bible study in the show notes, all the links. Mark your calendars for February 28th for the kickoff.

Tonya Kubo (25:09)

Exactly.

Kathi Lipp (25:27)

You can invite some friends if you know that they also struggle with some of these things. It is so much more fun to do it together. If you don’t have a friend that you can invite, then you’re gonna make friends. That’s what we want you to do. We’re gonna make friends who understand your cluttering language. Tonya, this has been great. Thanks so much for being with us today and for leading this. I know how passionate you are about.

Tonya Kubo (25:50)

Yes, and I hope that everybody listening will join us because it really is a good time. It really is.

Kathi Lipp (25:55)

Yeah, it really is. And friends, you have been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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