Kathi Lipp (00:09) 

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my Clutter co-creator. Yeah, we create clutter together, but we also clean it up together. It’s Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. Okay, this is Clutter After Dark. 

  

Tonya Kubo (00:24) 

Hey, Kathi! 

  

Kathi Lipp (00:33) 

This is our most intimate episode ever. Guys, we’re talking underwear here. Can I just say, before we talk about getting into discussing, we’re talking about decluttering your underwear and sock drawer. Now, first of all, Tonya, do your underwear and sock co-mingle? Like, how are you set up? 

  

Tonya Kubo (00:38) 

Can we have 

  

Yeah, so my underwear, socks, co-mingle. 

  

Kathi Lipp (01:04) 

Okay, okay. And when I’m saying underwear, I’m meaning all the categories, okay? So like, okay. Yeah, yeah. 

  

Tonya Kubo (01:09) 

Yeah, yeah. So like for me, it’s like camis and 

  

like long, like long johns and stuff for when I travel to cold areas. My slips, all of that. That’s all one drawer with the socks. 

  

Kathi Lipp (01:17) 

Okay. 

  

Okay, 

  

there are gonna be people who are like, what are slips? I mean there really will be. That’s okay. Hey, so, but you didn’t slip, okay, nevermind. We’re gonna stop with all the puns. Yeah, my underwear, sock drawer, it’s bras, sports bras, tights, all of that kind of stuff. And they’re all very individual. But I do wanna say this. If you have never tried… 

  

Tonya Kubo (01:25) 

I know. I know. But I have a slurp. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (01:49) 

the sports bras and underwear from Costco, may I highly suggest like I I I’ve I have converted I have converted fully and I’ll put the links down there to they’re not affiliate links. A lot of the things we do in here are affiliate links, which means hey, the clutter free people make a little bit of money off of this. So but these are not Costco doesn’t do that kind of thing. But I just love them so much. And you know what? 

  

Tonya Kubo (01:53) 

Mmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (02:17) 

I love that I can pick up some new underwear next to my rotisserie chicken. Just makes me super happy. Okay, so if you are tired of mismatched socks, holy underwear, or random junk in your drawers, today we have got a very quick plan to fix it. We are gonna talk about matching socks, we’re gonna talk about organizers, we’re gonna throw out. 

  

what’s worn and unloved, we’re gonna get you into shape. Because I don’t know about you, Tonya, like my first thing I do in the morning is drink coffee, and the second thing I do in the morning is get ready. So gathering up what I’m going to wear is one of my first jobs, and I don’t wanna be mad first thing in the morning. So this feels like a good launching point for us. 

  

Tonya Kubo (02:45) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yeah, no, I agree. And so, and this is timely for me because I just went through my socks and underwear drawer. We just did a deep laundry decluttering of everybody’s clothing and such. So, but I have a feeling that your situation’s a lot different than my situation because you have fewer people and you don’t have children in the house. So tell me what was your drawer situation before you tackled it. 

  

Kathi Lipp (03:14) 

Did you? Okay. 

  

nice. 

  

Yeah. Yes. Right. 

  

Okay, so I have one big giant drawer and I was trying to kind of put things into piles. So like there was a sock pile and there was an underwear pile and a miscellaneous pile. And then also let’s talk about the nonsense that was in my drawer because that’s a running theme in this podcast. So I probably would win. 

  

Tonya Kubo (03:38) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

You 

  

Kathi Lipp (04:01) 

the award for the strangest thing kept in my underwear drawer, which was a footprint of one of my chickens who has passed. I… 

  

Tonya Kubo (04:16) 

see why you would keep it in the underwear drawer though. 

  

Kathi Lipp (04:18) 

I didn’t know what else to do with it. And so like it was one of those things where I, yeah, I just didn’t know what, I think a lot of things that we don’t know what to do with end up in that kind of drawer. Okay, do tell me. 

  

Tonya Kubo (04:33) 

I’ll make you feel a little bit better, Kathi. So in mine, 

  

baby teeth, because where are the kids guaranteed not to look, right? They’re not going to dig through mom’s underwear. The second thing is during the pandemic, right? I couldn’t go to a salon and get pedicure. So I bought like all the salon stuff and all the extra like foot files and that thing that looks like a bar of soap, but is actually like porous that they scrub your foot with. I have one of those in my underwear drawer. Yeah. 

  

Kathi Lipp (04:38) 

Yes, yes, I… Right, exaca. Right. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Yes, right? 

  

Okay, 

  

yes, yes. 

  

Tonya Kubo (05:03) 

Yeah. 

  

So and then I have like just random stuff. have markers, Sharpie markers that I didn’t want Abby to get into to draw on the walls. Put them in my underwear drawer, of course. So there you go. 

  

Kathi Lipp (05:10) 

Yes. 

  

Look, 

  

and why do receipts end up there? That’s a good question. Receipts, phone chargers, things like that, right? 

  

Tonya Kubo (05:20) 

Yeah. Right. 

  

Totally. Totally true. Okay. So we got a picture of your drawer and all the randomness. What was that like during your day to day life? I imagine you weren’t having to take out the chicken foot imprint every single time to get ready, but still there was probably like, I don’t know, some wasted effort. 

  

Kathi Lipp (05:36) 

No, 

  

Okay, well, I’m admitting all my foolishness in one place, okay? So why did I have socks in there that the elastic was blown out on? I think I was just so happy that I matched the sock that I didn’t care if I actually liked the sock. 

  

Tonya Kubo (05:58) 

Right? 

  

My college roommate used to say, if it’s washed, it has to be worn before you can get rid of it. Otherwise you wasted the effort of washing. Yeah. So any things she would like come out with like, holey underwear. And she’s like, no, I have to wear these, but as soon as I wear them, I will throw them away. And I’m like, I would throw them away now actually. 

  

Kathi Lipp (06:10) 

I totally get that. 

  

Okay. Yes. 

  

my goodness. Yes. Because what if you end up at the hospital with holey underwear? I’m, you know, like this is deeply embedded in me, but here’s the thing, something that I haven’t really talked with you a bunch about, you know, I have, you know this, I have a bad back and I have done a lot of strength training and everything like that. And you know, they show all these commercials for people, for shoes to put on. 

  

you know, when it’s hard for you to bend. And for me, it’s just one side of my body. What they don’t talk about is the socks. The socks, shoes are not a problem for me. It’s the socks. And so here’s the problem. If one of my, I tend to watch, wear those no-show socks because I’m a Gen Xer. That’s what we prefer. And if one of those socks slips down while I’m in the middle of Costco, 

  

Tonya Kubo (06:53) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (07:20) 

It’s not going back up. Yeah, and so like those need to be gone friend. Those need to be gone. Yeah, it’s my secret chain. Okay, so it was frustrating. Yeah. 

  

Tonya Kubo (07:20) 

yeah, yeah. 

  

Okay, it was frustrating. 

  

But you’re on the other side, Kathi You are teaching us from the other side. So, and what I love about the series that we’ve been talking about, where we’re tackling these small spaces, is your solutions are just simple and yet with high impact. So tell me where you got started with your underwear and socks drawer. 

  

Kathi Lipp (07:37) 

I am. 

  

Yes. 

  

Okay, removing all the single socks. Like, okay, why are single socks there? I think what I thought was, well, when I find the other single sock, I will go back there. What I finally did is I just have a bag with single socks, and after a little while, like, I’ll gather all of them up, and I’ll say, these have been in here for three months. Now, if I don’t find them in the next go around, they need to be thrown away. But also, throwing away socks where 

  

Tonya Kubo (08:16) 

Right. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (08:26) 

The elastic is blown out on them. They’re not the ones I like. They feel funny on my feet. Now, let me also say, when I was a single mom, it didn’t matter if they felt funny on my feet. I was keeping them because I was broke, right? But can we all agree if your underwear is falling down, it’s time to throw it away. If it’s cutting off your circulation or something like that. 

  

Tonya Kubo (08:30) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. Right. 

  

Kathi Lipp (08:56) 

I need you to throw those things away because that’s not how we should be living. Yeah. 

  

Tonya Kubo (09:00) 

Exactly. Well, I would say if 

  

anything that is supposed to be contained is falling out, you deserve to throw them away. 

  

Kathi Lipp (09:07) 

Exactly and let me also say with those single socks. I finally just realized I need to keep those in The laundry room so when I’m done folding laundry if there’s a sock left over I can put that where the other socks go instead of having to do a sock scavenger hunt before I try matching things up 

  

Tonya Kubo (09:16) 

Mmm. 

  

Right? 

  

Okay, so you had one spot for your random socks. You talked about getting rid of your worn out unwanted items, right? So the socks that slipped down, the undies that just have lost their containment factor. So once you get rid of all the bad stuff, then what? 

  

Kathi Lipp (09:34) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yes. 

  

They’re not doing it anymore. Yes, exactly. 

  

I’ll also say on the underwear anything you’d be embarrassed to show up at the hospital with you know let’s just go ahead and say you know Stains you know things like that whatever you need to do. Just be done with it. Okay, so now what I’ve done is I’ve used a couple of organizational solutions, so I Don’t know it’s called a honeycomb organizer and Okay, so it is 

  

Tonya Kubo (10:02) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

I have no idea what that is. Talk to me, Kathi. 

  

Kathi Lipp (10:21) 

You put it down in your and I’ll link all of this in our show notes so you can see what I’m talking about. But it’s got like a bunch of little squares. They’re more like trying like diamonds that when you undo this and you can put a pair of socks in there or you can put a pair of underwear in there. So it’s not just a giant pile, but you can see everything you have. And for me, 

  

Tonya Kubo (10:35) 

Got it. 

  

Hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (10:50) 

And I think for a lot of people who struggle with clutter, when things are hidden, they’re no longer used. And so this says, no, this is what you have and you can go, I just love going to my drawer and plucking out that orange pair of no-show socks. Nobody’s gonna see them, but I know that they’re there and it makes me so happy. And I can see everything I have. And then I have some small fabric boxes for things like bras or sports bras. 

  

Tonya Kubo (10:55) 

Mm-hmm. Right. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Kathi Lipp (11:18) 

tights, underwear, things like that. It just is a way of being able to see everything. Now, I’ve ordered those off of Amazon, but if you are, you know, if money is a struggle right now, which it is for a lot of people, could you use a shoe box? Could you use a tiny shoe box for little kids? At one point in my life, I use cereal boxes for organization. just… 

  

Tonya Kubo (11:47) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (11:48) 

I 

  

had to because I had no money. So those are things you could use. So try using multiple smaller boxes with out lids and that can really help you keep organized in some of, it’s just a drawer divider that will get you to the next step. 

  

Tonya Kubo (12:05) 

Ooh, okay, well I am excited because we are going to go on a break, but when we come back, you’re actually going to answer probably one of the most often questions, often asked questions that we get in Clutterfree Academy, which is how many pairs do you actually need? Seriously, Kathi, that question comes up all the time. Plus you are going to tell us what to do with those items that don’t belong. We’ll be right back. 

  

Kathi Lipp (12:08) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Right. Yeah. 

  

Tonya Kubo (12:32) 

All right, we are back Kathi and you are going to tell us the secrets of the universe as it relates to underwear and socks drawers. How do we figure out how many pairs of socks and underwear we really need? 

  

Kathi Lipp (12:37) 

Yeah 

  

I think the first thing you have to figure out is how often do you do laundry? Because if you’re doing laundry just once a week, figure out how many pairs of underwear, how many pairs of socks you wear in a week. And I would say add two or three, right? Because you want to be able, but if you’re doing laundry multiple times a week, you probably don’t need as many. Maybe you just need divide by two, add three. 

  

Tonya Kubo (12:52) 

Hmm. 

  

Right. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (13:17) 

So I think really using your scientific method here and saying, what do I actually use? And if you’re like, I don’t know, that doesn’t feel like enough, that feels weird, that feels scary, then what I’ll suggest you do is put in the amount that feels comfortable in that space. So maybe eight pairs of underwear feels good in that space. Do you ever run out? 

  

Tonya Kubo (13:17) 

Right. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (13:44) 

That’s a great question. Do I ever run out of that space? I tried to dial back to eight. It didn’t really work for me because sometimes I’m wearing more than a pair in a day. know, sometimes when I’m changing for bed, like whatever, everybody has their own routine. So you have to figure out what actually works for you. And I think that that’s okay to do. I also have different kinds of socks. I have the no-show socks and then I have the socks I wear in the snow. 

  

Tonya Kubo (13:45) 

Mm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Kathi Lipp (14:12) 

So eight pairs of socks is not going to be enough. When it’s cold outside, I need more heftier socks. So you just have to apply a little bit of the scientific method. One thing that really helped me figure this out though, Tonya, was when I, in addition to that honeycomb organizer I talked about and the different little boxes, I put drawer dividers in my drawers. 

  

Tonya Kubo (14:20) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (14:41) 

These are spring loaded so that they fit the short ways in your drawer. So I have now a section for underwear, a section for sports bras, a section for regular bras. It’s like putting drawer dividers in there so that you can section out your space. And that really said, this is how much space I actually have. 

  

Tonya Kubo (14:41) 

you 

  

Okay. 

  

Mm-hmm. Okay. 

  

Kathi Lipp (15:07) 

for my bras. This is actually how much space I have for my slips or tights or whatever it is. And that really helped me out. 

  

Tonya Kubo (15:08) 

Okay. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

I love that. I love that. And I think that, you you brought up some good points about not just laundry schedule, but also habit. For instance, like when I used to, I used to work out six days a week, not the life I currently live, but I would like there was the workout underwear that served a certain purpose. There was the day to day underwear that served a certain purpose. So that was a time in my life when I needed a lot more than I need now. But I love that idea of combining 

  

Kathi Lipp (15:26) 

Yeah. Okay. 

  

Yes, right, yes. 

  

Yes. 

  

Tonya Kubo (15:43) 

the physical space that you have to fit the things with the laundry schedule. I think that’s really powerful. 

  

Kathi Lipp (15:46) 

Yes. 

  

And Tonya, we are not minimalists, but we are minimal-ish. We are always determining what is the least amount of an item that I could live with that still serves its purpose. Minimalists might say, no, I’m going to arrange my life around only having 

  

Tonya Kubo (15:53) 

No. 

  

Right. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (16:16) 

you know, five pairs of socks. No, we’re going to arrange our socks out of our minimal need that we actually have. 

  

Tonya Kubo (16:17) 

Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

  

Yeah, like when we were just going through our stuff, you know, I settled on 13 pairs of underwear. Why? Because I just, because actually it was like, these are my favorite, like these are my favorites, right? And then I made an Amazon mistake, which I’m just sharing with our listeners in case they make the mistake. So sometimes on Amazon, you think you’re ordering one thing and it come to find out you are ordering a package of multiple things. And so I had wanted to get some of those long boxer shorts. 

  

Kathi Lipp (16:31) 

Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

  

Yes! Yes! 

  

Yes. Right. 

  

Tonya Kubo (16:55) 

to wear underneath dresses. And I wanted a black pair and a white pair and I accidentally ordered packages of eight pairs each. 

  

Kathi Lipp (17:04) 

Wow, fancy you. 

  

Tonya Kubo (17:07) 

fancy me with my 16 pairs of long boxer shorts that roll all the way up to your hip if you try to wear them underneath jeans. So I just decided that, you know, the 10 or so pairs that did not get worn at all did not need to be with me at all. And Brian was very happy. I think I have my own section of the donation center at this point, but. Right. 

  

Kathi Lipp (17:10) 

Right. 

  

that’s so funny. 

  

Right? 

  

I love that. I love that 

  

so much. Yes. 

  

Tonya Kubo (17:35) 

So I just want 

  

to share, since we are sharing some Amazon links in the show notes, I just want to let you all know that you should pay attention to both the quantity and also the unit items inside the quantity that you’re purchasing. 

  

Kathi Lipp (17:43) 

It’s so true. It’s so true, 

  

absolutely. 

  

Tonya Kubo (17:49) 

Okay, so Kathi, talk to me about brands. Because you mentioned like there’s some no-show socks that you particularly like. You like the Costco underwear. But at some point, you were using something else. How do you fit like the whole brands I love versus maybe I spent good money on this? You know the thing. 

  

Kathi Lipp (17:56) 

Yeah. Yeah. 

  

Yes. 

  

Okay. So my whole life has been, I spent good money on this. I need to wear it as a punishment. One of my favorite discoveries this year is the Wirecutter show. I’ve talked to you about this before. It is the New York Times Wirecutter where they do their product recommendations and they do extensive testing. One of my favorite things that we just bought, Tonya, Tonya. 

  

Tonya Kubo (18:11) 

Right. 

  

Mmm, yes, yes. 

  

Kathi Lipp (18:36) 

My life has changed, we just got a new mattress. And which is a very expensive purchase, right? Now it’s not their most expensive purchase, which by the way, they don’t recommend because they’re not crazy, but it’s a $75,000 mattress that Martha Stewart, but their product tester did sleep on it for six months to say, is this really worth it? Just to make sure. 

  

Tonya Kubo (18:40) 

Whoa. 

  

Yeah. 

  

just to make sure it wasn’t worth $75,000, 

  

I’m sure. 

  

Kathi Lipp (19:03) 

Right, 

  

she sacrificed, she goes, if I could, I would buy it, but that’s not how I’m choosing to spend my money. So I really listened and that’s how I found out about the Costco underwear, you know, and they like to recommend, hey, if you’re a normal person, this is a decent price to spend to get this decent thing. Well, you know, I’ve owned two pairs of Bamba socks in my life and I love a Bamba sock. 

  

Tonya Kubo (19:09) 

Hahaha 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Mmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (19:31) 

But you know what, I kept on thinking I could get the same effect with these Costco brands. Now in the Costco underwear, yes, I’m getting great results. The socks, maybe it’s because I have size 11 feet, I don’t know. They’re just not the same. Can I just tell you I doubled down and I got an eight pack of Bamba socks. And I need to wear those until Jesus comes back. 

  

Tonya Kubo (19:46) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Go you! 

  

Kathi Lipp (20:00) 

But you know what, here’s the thing. I have bought so many pairs of socks cheaping out and they’re the ones that, you know, when I talk about rolling down my feet, Bombas has never done that to me. They’ve always treated me right. So I think if there’s a brand you love and you’re going to invest in it, then follow the directions on how to wash and dry them. 

  

Tonya Kubo (20:03) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (20:27) 

You know, figure out what’s gonna keep them the brand you love and stick with those brands you love. And if you’ve never tried a bomba sock before, I’ll give you a link, because man, they are just the best. I love them so much, yeah. And you can get a discount code too. So we’ll share those. 

  

Tonya Kubo (20:46) 

Okay, well, so we talked a little bit earlier about the weird stuff in the drawers. What’d you do with your weird stuff and how do we prevent just wedging any old thing in our underwear and socks drawer? 

  

Kathi Lipp (20:50) 

Yeah. Yeah. 

  

Yeah. 

  

So like what I just talked about with the bombas, you want to go to your drawer and everything in there is something that you use and you love and would buy again. The chicken footprint, maybe not. Maybe not. So do you have a place that things that are meaningful to you, but they don’t really have a place in your life? 

  

Tonya Kubo (21:07) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (21:23) 

So one of the things I have committed to myself to do is I’m gonna display that footprint. I’m gonna find a place in the house for it. And it doesn’t have to be, it doesn’t have to be a big place on my wall. It could just be something that I love. Other things that I found in there. Sometimes I put things in there because I can’t decide. And if I can’t decide and I haven’t used it in this long, like I got these. 

  

Tonya Kubo (21:29) 

Hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Right. 

  

Kathi Lipp (21:52) 

Like I don’t even know how to describe them. They’re like they smell good. They’re supposed to be atomizers, but I don’t really know how I don’t know. They’re weird. I have never used them. I’m just going to throw them away and it’s okay. So only keep things in there that are meant for that drawer. Do you have a box you could put things in? Like these are meaningful to me, but I don’t have a place for them right now. It’s okay to have some precious memory places in your life. 

  

Tonya Kubo (22:03) 

Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yeah, and you know, as we wrap up sort of this discussion on the underwear and sock drawer, you know, we’ve talked about in some cases, you’ve got like seasonality that you need to think about. I think for most of us, socks and underwear aren’t seasonal. I know for me, I do have four pairs of like really thick socks that I’ll wear with boots versus my thinner summer socks. But I think you can just honestly tuck them into the back corner of the drawer or just get a small bin if you need to. Would you do anything different? 

  

Kathi Lipp (22:30) 

Yeah. 

  

Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

  

Yeah, right. 

  

Nope, you know, the only thing I do differently is I do have fall boxes that we put upstairs and sometimes I’ll put some of those things in there because I know I’m not going to need them before fall. But you know, we’ve got a weird situation here. 

  

Tonya Kubo (23:03) 

Yeah. So, okay. So this wraps up our steps that we have gone through socks and underwear drawer. I don’t think we’ve ever spent quite so much time discussing such tiny aspects of clothing, but hey, this is an important thing. I’m curious though, Kathi, socks and underwear, it feels like it can get out of hand easily. How do you keep it tidy once you’re happy with how it is? 

  

Kathi Lipp (23:14) 

Yes? Yeah. 

  

Just keep going back to that drawer and saying, does this make me happy? And if you have kids that you’re working with them on that drawer, like are you actually wearing these things that are in the back corner? Look at the bottom of the drawer. Are the things that are never getting daylight? Not that your socks and underwear should get too much daylight. But if they’re not going through the laundry on a regular basis, it may be time to just say, you know what, we don’t need these anymore. 

  

And that’s okay, that’s okay. That’s why I really suggest getting brands you love so that you’re not re-buying mistake after mistake, because I’ve done that. I’ve wasted a lot of money doing that instead of just buying what I love, because I want to go to that drawer and feel like everything in here is something that I’m happy to wear. 

  

Tonya Kubo (24:16) 

I love that. Okay. Absolute mic drop right there. Everything is something that you’re happy to wear. Now listeners, you want to check our show notes because we have a simple downloadable guide for transforming that old sock and underwear drawer into a tidy functional space, following the tips that Kathi shared today. And we’ve got links to all the cool stuff that she mentioned, the Bamba socks, the Costco undies. I don’t know what else, but I’m sure, the honeycomb organizer. I almost forgot about that, Kathi. 

  

Kathi Lipp (24:43) 

Yes, yes, 

  

very important. 

  

Tonya Kubo (24:46) 

And 

  

we cannot wait to hear from you next time. Now, Kathi, thank you so much for breaking this down, spending the amount of time that you have in helping us really make sense of this small but important to function space. Any other things you want to add before we close off? 

  

Kathi Lipp (25:02) 

Yes. 

  

And we have all been in that broke place where we’re just happy to have any underwear. And I also want you to curate your life. I want your underwear drawer to be the least stressful part of your day. That’s my goal with this podcast. 

  

Tonya Kubo (25:26) 

I love that. I love that. Okay. Well, you have been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I am Tonya Kubo with Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.