#668 &#8211; Let&#8217;s Get Under the Sink

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:08)
Well, hey friend, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps every day to live with less clutter and more life. I’m Kathi Lipp. Today I am here with Tonya Kubo. Hey Tonya. And we are tackling another project. I think this may rank as one of my least favorite areas to declutter and clean. It is

Tonya Kubo (00:22)
Hey, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (00:38)
Under the kitchen sink. How do you feel about under? I anything where I have to squat down Is going to go pretty low on the list

Tonya Kubo (00:47)
Yeah,

and my house is old, so underneath the sink smells funny. Not gonna lie. Just smells weird. I just don’t want to go down there.

Kathi Lipp (00:52)
Yeah, okay.

Yeah, you know, several years ago, we we noticed that the outside of our house had a big spot on it. And we’re like, what is that? And it we had a leak under our sink we didn’t know about, and ended up replacing part of our house, you know, the side on the house having to

Tonya Kubo (01:04)
Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:19)
cut that all out, repaint it. Fortunately, we hired somebody who knew what they were doing because that’s not mine and Roger’s giftedness. But it’s important that you’re down there pretty regularly and inspecting things because…

Tonya Kubo (01:34)
for that

exact reason, which is also why I avoid it.

Kathi Lipp (01:38)
Yeah, I

know, right? There’s a show that Roger and I love, it’s called Mom, and somebody was at Bonnie’s house and they moved the bookcase and she says, you have mold, you you have a wet spot. And she goes, I know, and I paint it and it goes away for six months. And it’s like…

Why do you think we have the desk where we have it? It’s not because we want it there. Yeah, but you know, this stuff can be serious and it’s also annoying. Tonya, let’s talk under the sink.

Tonya Kubo (02:15)
All right, so it’s a catch-all, which you’ve established. We avoid it, which we’ve also established. So how do we get started if we want to doom clean under the sink?

Kathi Lipp (02:19)
Yeah, yes.

Hahaha

Yeah, so first of all, we have to declutter and it was so interesting just the other day. We had our windshield replaced on our car because Giant Boulder came at my face. I was like, it was was not fun, but we got it. And the people who replaced it, they had a big old can. They gave us a big old can of auto window cleaner. And I said, as I was.

Tonya Kubo (02:40)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:57)
Like, where do we put this? And I said, Roger, where would you first think to look when you needed auto window cleaner? And he said, under the sink. I’m like.

Tonya Kubo (03:06)
Hahaha!

Kathi Lipp (03:09)
Really?

Tonya Kubo (03:10)
But it’s true because you’re like, I mean, this was in my house two weeks ago. Lily was looking for something random and it’s like, it’s so random. Where would you put that? I bet I would put that under the sink. And she went and it was there.

Kathi Lipp (03:23)
Really?

My good. Okay. Well see I cannot argue when I say I’m going to ask you the question Where would you first look for this and I was thinking our auto supplies. nene It’s under the sink. Okay, apparently Roger has been affirmed in this so Yeah, we’re gonna pull everything out. We’re gonna empty that cabinet and You just need to see everything sponges have to empty cleaners

And there’s nothing wrong with a half empty cleaner, but if you have the half empty cleaner plus the full cleaner plus another half empty cleaner, et cetera, et cetera, you’re gonna have stuff down there you forgot and you have. So we’re gonna, yes please.

Tonya Kubo (04:08)
Yes. Do you want to hear my story? Six.

So I keep the white vinegar underneath the sink too in a big jug because old house stinky disposal. Right. So we had been buying a hand wash like dish, Dawn dish soap. I pulled out the vinegar. I had six dish soaps behind it, but they’re short. They’re short. The vinegar was tall.

Kathi Lipp (04:14)
Okay, uh-huh. Right, yeah.

Yeah.

I’m not gonna fault you. Yes, I know. And

right, I totally get that. Apparently I was deathly afraid that the world was gonna run out of Dawn Powerwash.

Tonya Kubo (04:45)
I’m definitely afraid of that. That has changed our life since we discovered it at your house.

Kathi Lipp (04:49)
Right? It’s so great. And so it feels like every time I went to Costco, I bought the three pack. We’re good. We are so good. Yeah, as one does. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (05:00)
as one does. All right.

So you pull everything out so that you can be like me and discover that you actually have six dishwashing detergent things.

Kathi Lipp (05:08)
Yeah,

so you’re gonna either put that all on your counter on the kitchen table whatever makes sense to you Yeah, you’re gonna keep the products you actually use I don’t care if it’s full full You know a quarter full if you use it and if you can combine things now be very careful with combining things You’re not gonna come buying Bleach and other things right? We’re not gonna be that’s I couldn’t think of the word. Yes We’re not gonna do that because we want everybody to stay alive

Tonya Kubo (05:31)
No bleach and ammonia. Please do not do that.

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (05:38)
So you’re only going to combine like with like. Donate or give away. If you have, you know, maybe 20 Dawn Power washes, maybe it’s time to donate a few of those to your local food pantry. But, you know, don’t, we’re never donating junk guys. And then we’re going to toss things like expired chemicals, moldy sponges, broken tools. Now, when I say we’re going to toss expired chemicals, you’re going to check

Tonya Kubo (05:56)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:08)
with your local municipality about how you get rid of chemicals. You know what, can I just say there have been hostage negotiations that take less back and forth than us getting rid of chemicals in the greater Sacramento area. But you know what, we’re gonna do it right. and you know, dried paint, things like that. We’re just, we’re gonna do all the right things. You’re going to…

Tonya Kubo (06:24)
Hahaha

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:35)
Check for duplicates and safety. So first you’re gonna pull everything out. Second, you’re gonna sort items. Check for duplicates and safety. So if you have three bottles, same cleaner, like we said, combine or let some go. There are some chemicals that can be hazardous, so we’re going to dispose of those properly. But also make sure, check expiration dates. If something is a chemical and it’s out of date,

It’s probably time to dispose of it properly. And then four, you’re gonna decide how many backups can I, six may be too much of maybe. how many backup cleaners do you realistically need? The more backups you hold, the more clutter you risk. So keep a small stash, not an entire store’s worth. So what I’ve done is I have put those Dawn containers

Tonya Kubo (07:11)
Maybe.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:32)
into we have a very high shelf in our garage, but I checked that before I go to Costco and I don’t think I’ve bought any Dawn Power Wash in the last year. So this is a victory. So you have to be able to see it friends.

Tonya Kubo (07:48)
I think that’s the big lesson through this whole series too, right? Is what you can’t see tends to pile up, right? No matter what your daily habits are. And you know, like before the dishwasher soap incident, I would have said that making me pull everything out of underneath my sink would have made me super nervous because honestly, I’m just afraid every time I pull stuff out that I’m gonna find a leak of some sort. That’s really my fear.

Kathi Lipp (07:55)
Great.

Yes, I get

it. Right.

Tonya Kubo (08:16)
is that I’m gonna go

push something through and my hand’s gonna go through the floor. I’ve seen that movie. That doesn’t work out, right? But to your point, it’s the only way to see what’s down there. It’s the only way to figure out if it makes sense. And it’s the only way to really get it clean, which brings me to the next segment of this particular episode.

Kathi Lipp (08:19)
Yes. Yes.

Yeah,

but Tonya, I’m also going to talk about the fear of the drip here for a second. We want a drip, not a demo. OK? I want you to catch the drip before we have to go to power tools, which is what Roger and I had to do. So I’m speaking out. I’m laying myself bare for this experience. So yes, let’s talk about cleaning.

Tonya Kubo (08:51)
Right.

Kathi Lipp (09:08)
Let’s get started with this is that you’re you’re gonna pull everything out and this is the time to disinfect Okay, so that’s before you do anything else and I know we’re gonna be talking a lot about how to clean all this but use I want you to use something that has a disinfecting spray because like you said water mold crusty residue soap

Tonya Kubo (09:23)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:37)
Leaked liquids. I I want you to wipe down and disavow. know this is such an exciting thing, right? I mean I see your face

Tonya Kubo (09:44)
Super exciting.

Yeah, I’m making my poo face as my kids call it. But the wiping down and disinfecting is really important and it is an important first step. I would love for us to tackle the rest of the steps after our commercial break. So we are gonna just take a quick break, pay a few bills, and then we’re gonna come back and talk more about what cleaning looks like underneath the sink.

Kathi Lipp (09:49)
Okay.

Tonya Kubo (10:14)
Welcome back, Kathi you have helped us declutter. You talked to us about wiping down, disinfecting, especially because there’s spills, there’s leaks. We talked about maybe some mildew and yucky stuff. Now take us to the rest of the steps.

Kathi Lipp (10:18)
Yes.

Okay, so one, wipe down the disinfect, two, address those leaks or dampness. Now, I will find this little tool. I didn’t think about it until we were talking right now, but one of my nephews is a building, like he knows everything. He’s a world expert on concrete, which is, know, but an interesting, and I learned from him that concrete,

Either has no Wait either has cracks or is going to crack so that’s good information to know I didn’t know that but also he told me about a tool that you can get on Amazon that Detects leaks and dampness so I yeah, so if that is something that is a problem for you I’ll find the one that he recommends

Because I think that that’s important for us to have but check things check to see if things are wet Check the garbage disposal and seals if you see moisture or mildew fix it before putting anything back Okay, and then I’m gonna ask you to vacuum and sweep you may want to do this before you wipe things down But you know there’s floor under the sink if you need to get under their crayon crumbs and dust pile up quick vacuum

Tonya Kubo (11:27)
Okay.

Kathi Lipp (11:55)
or sweep ensures a fresh start. We love a fresh start. We love a clean sleep. And then I want you to let it dry thoroughly. Leave the doors open. If you need to stick a fan there to let everything, you don’t want to put moisture on top of moisture. So we’re gonna spend a little time just letting everything dry out. Bone dry cabinets prevent further musty smells, mold issues.

Tonya Kubo (11:58)
We do.

Kathi Lipp (12:23)
And I’m also gonna come back and say, wipe down the sides of the walls, okay? And this is where, you know, I just, want you to have a fresh start in that space. I use, there is a great misting spray. It’s a Clorox disinfecting spray that I have that I really like for those kind of different areas that can tend to have.

Tonya Kubo (12:29)
Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:53)
You know, you can have some issues build up there. So we’ll be sure to put that in there as well. But I really want to spend the bulk of our time here today, Tonya, talking about how do you organize for longevity? How do you organize so that you can go to that space? And Tonya, I want to take away the fear of under the sink. So that’s where I want to spend most of our time.

Tonya Kubo (13:23)
Okay, okay. So I think we should just take a quick break so that you can have that uninterrupted at this point. So please just stick with us because Kathi’s gonna come back and walk us through quite a few steps and some detail when it comes to organizing the under the sink area because it is so problematic. We’ll be right back.

Kathi Lipp (13:30)
Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:46)
All right, Kathi, take us home. How do we organize under the sink so that it stays neat?

Kathi Lipp (13:49)
Yes.

Let me tell you my goal here. When it comes to the area under the sink, we’re aiming for solutions, not storage of unresolved stuff. Let’s reclaim that space, friend. Let’s reclaim that space, okay? Because it’s very easy to just shove things that you don’t know what to do with them under the sink and just say, okay, well, that’s the place I would look for them. No, I want better for you, my friend. Okay.

So here are a few options of things that have really helped me with some of my, and by the way, this could be under your bathroom sink, this could be your kitchen sink, this could be utility room, all these places. first thing I wanna talk about are these two-tiered sliding drawers or caddies. They are perfect, they’re two-tier, so you get double space because,

That under the sink area can be pretty tall. It’s gonna be, for most modern homes, about the height of your dishwasher. And our dishwashers have two to three tiers on them. So let’s use that vertical space as much as we can. Now you’re under the sink. It was built in the 1950s. What does yours look like?

Tonya Kubo (15:12)
Well, so our garbage disposal takes up most of the under the sink space. So we’ve just got the space on either side of it. It’s weird. Super weird. ?

Kathi Lipp (15:15)
Yeah, okay.

Yeah, okay. So I may have a solution for you though.

I may have something for you. There are these slide out caddies that fit around your pipes, including, it might be wide enough to fit around your garbage disposal and your pipe under the sink. so those, you build them in, you screw them into the floor and they can pull out and give you a lot more storage space. So I don’t know, you…

Here’s what I’m gonna say every single episode. You’re gonna get so sick of me saying this, Tonya, but you have to.

Tonya Kubo (15:54)
Wait, let me guess, let

me guess. Should I measure it first?

Kathi Lipp (15:57)
You should measure it which can I just guys I am the most unmeasured person like That looks like it would work No more. I am now a measuring tape full I want you you have to measure how deep it is how wide your stuff is and then we’ll put a link in there to see if that could fit another Solution might be stackable bits

So if your sink pipes are in the way using shorter bins that fit on either side, that may be have to, you know, what the most that you could do, Tonya. And then we talked about this last time and I know you haven’t had a chance to implement it yet, but I’m going to tempt you again with door mounted racks or hooks. Yes. You do. Okay. A strip.

Tonya Kubo (16:45)
I do have that underneath my sink. have, what do you call it? Like a, it’s a rod,

a rod, you know, to hang the towels or your rubber gloves or anything like that.

Kathi Lipp (16:52)
? okay. ? nice. Yes. Okay.

That I love that. Okay. My next thing I’m going to talk about is also rod related. And that is a tension rod. Now, why would you think why would you put a tension rod there for you can put spray bottles, you can hang those by their handles, or yes.

Tonya Kubo (17:05)
Mmm.

Yeah.

I could hang

spray bottles on mine. It is the perfect size because it’s not too thick. It’s not too thick.

Kathi Lipp (17:24)
Okay, so we’re gonna need to make sure that we see your you know You can give us a link to what you’ve used so I think this is such a small space But I want you to maximize it as much as possible because as we’ve determined It’s really really valuable, and I I’ll be honest with you. I have maximized many of my spaces

Tonya Kubo (17:38)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:47)
I haven’t maximized all of my, we have a weird bathroom upstairs that I need to, it needs to be more maximized. So we’ve got these ideas for you. gonna, we have a download with all of these links that you can use. But then I want you to think back to how can you group these by categories? So are there things you use every day? I remember when I had my apartment in Japan, I just had a little.

Tonya Kubo (17:55)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:14)
that I kept under the sink and I pulled it out every day and it had my washcloths, had my spray bottle, it had my sponges. That could be something you do. Backup items or less used products can go towards the back or the upper tiers, but you wanna keep those things that you’re using all the time. And then number three, label and limit. Label and limit how much you’re keeping of things.

Tonya Kubo (18:29)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:42)
Limit bins or baskets, for instance, cleaning cloths, trash bags, sponges. Also, if you bring in a new product, consider using up the old one. I don’t want you to hoard half-used containers, but I also don’t want you to throw away perfectly good products. So challenge yourself to use up what you have before buying something new. Or say, hey, I have a week left of this. I need to put it on my shopping list. And then…

Are there some additional items you need? If you’re storing any towels or rags, there are such things as moisture proof bins. So if you get a lot of moisture in your house, you may want to consider something like that. Or it might make sense to put a non-slip shelf liner to prevent bottles from sliding around. those are just, again, everybody’s under the sink area is so completely different.

There is no one size fits all, maybe a combination of some of these ideas could really help you out.

Tonya Kubo (19:45)
? gosh, I love that. tension rods, you that’s one of those things I see on TikTok a lot. Like you can do a lot of things with a tension rod. Who knew? And, but the hanging of the spray bottles, I don’t know why I’ve never thought about that. Mainly just because I moved in here and I use everything like the prior owners used it because I just don’t have energy for creativity.

Kathi Lipp (19:53)
You really can. Yes.

Yeah,

right, that’s okay. Your creativity is going to building a business. We use a lot of tension rods in our RV as well for storage and hanging and it’s made a big difference. So you’re right, there’s a lot of tension stuff. We’ll have to really explore tension rods in some of these upcoming episodes, because I think that could be a solution for a lot of people who are living in small spaces.

Tonya Kubo (20:16)
Mmm.

Yeah, okay, so tension rod and we’ve talked about labeling, which I love because I think if you live in a house where it’s more than just you, labeling is the secret to getting other people to help out because then they can’t tell you that they don’t know where things go.

Kathi Lipp (20:49)
Right, absolutely, absolutely. I think you’re exactly right there.

Tonya Kubo (20:53)
So Kathi, are there any final tips you want to tell us you want to add before we wrap up this particular episode on that under the sink area?

Kathi Lipp (21:03)
Yeah, this is the cave of the house, isn’t it? It is the dark, damp cave. But you can do most of this in under an hour if you declutter clean and then organize. First, organize with bins or caddies you have. And Tonya, let me just say, don’t sleep on Dollar Tree. I’m sending you links because

Tonya Kubo (21:06)
It really is.

Kathi Lipp (21:31)
There are not Dollar Tree links as far as I know. yeah, so, but there are caddies you can get at Dollar Tree. You can get tension rods at Dollar Tree. So, you know, one of the things I heard somebody say recently, I thought this was so brilliant. They said, you know, when they were buying tools for their first house, their grandfather said, buy the cheapest tools you can get. And then,

Tonya Kubo (21:34)
Not as far as I know either.

Kathi Lipp (22:00)
When those break, you know you use those enough to replace with something of quality. And I thought, that’s so smart. Instead of buying the best thing ever for every space, buy something, you know, for these solutions. I’ll just tell you, Tonya, I’m trying out all sorts of different organization solutions. I went and I dropped $40 at Dollar Tree.

Tonya Kubo (22:30)
?

Kathi Lipp (22:30)
You

can buy a lot of stuff at Dollar Tree. And so I’m trying to find out what’s the path of least resistance? Do I need the $25 Amazon thing or can I get away with the $1.25 version at Dollar Tree? And some of the things, let’s be honest, what you’re getting from Amazon or IKEA or, you know, there’s still Bed Bath and Beyond, you know, stuff you can buy.

Tonya Kubo (22:36)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (22:59)
Some of that it’s worth it to buy the solution that you need but some of it the dollar 25 version might be just fine. things like that for little storage under your sink. Don’t sleep on Dollar Tree. That’s what I would say.

Tonya Kubo (23:15)
my gosh, I think that’s a really good tip. And the big one there is just get the cheapest thing that makes sense. And when it breaks, when it wears out, then you know that it’s time to invest in something of a little higher quality versus buying top of the line because we’re buying to belong because we cluttery people do that thinking it’s going to make us more organized, more this, more that. And then finding out that we just don’t use it at all.

Kathi Lipp (23:31)
Exactly.

We love that.

Yeah, know, Tonya, we talked a little bit about this last time, sitting with our discomfort sometimes. And you said that, you you bought a pantry and you thought you needed more space, but what you really needed was to declutter and then put in a couple of organizational tools. And I love that example because that’s exactly it. Sit with your discomfort. Like, why does this area under the sink bother me? Well, I’m worried about…

Tonya Kubo (23:49)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (24:12)
the drips, I’m worried about whatever that is, I don’t feel like there’s enough space, we can address that. So sit with your discomfort for a little bit, buy the cheapest solution you can and then upgrade when you need to.

Tonya Kubo (24:18)
Mm-hmm.

my gosh, such juicy, juicy tidbits of wisdom. Thank you so much, Kathi. And thank you for addressing this, because I don’t think I’ve ever heard or saw anything in recent memory, at least that talks about the Under the Sink, but you’ve given me a whole new perspective on it. So I really appreciate that. And listeners, thank you for joining us today. Thank you for sticking it out, learning all about the dank dark underneath the sink area.

Kathi Lipp (24:45)
Yay!

Yeah

Tonya Kubo (24:54)
We appreciate it. You have been listening to Clutterfree Academy. Now go create the clutter free life you have always wanted to live.

#667 – Clutter Free Finances: Taking Control of Subscriptions

Apr 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Mental Load, Overwhelmed, Podcast

On this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep into the world of subscription services and the hidden costs they can incur over time. As many of us fall into the habit of acquiring more subscriptions than we need, our finances begin to...

#666 – The Nightstand Reset: Creating a Launch Pad for Peace

Apr 22, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo delve into the importance of a tidy nightstand for a better night's sleep and a more organized life. They discuss Kathi's recent purchase of new nightstands with built-in outlets, her nighttime routine...

#665 – Declutter Your Spice Cabinet: From Chaos to Cooking Bliss

Apr 15, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo tackle one of the most deceptively frustrating spots in your kitchen: the spice cabinet. If you’ve ever bought a second (or sixth) bottle of basil because you couldn’t find the first one, or had cumin...

#667 – Clutter Free Finances: Taking Control of Subscriptions

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Apr 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Mental Load, Overwhelmed, Podcast | 0 comments

#667 – Clutter Free Finances: Taking Control of Subscriptions

Listen Now

On this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep into the world of subscription services and the hidden costs they can incur over time. As many of us fall into the habit of acquiring more subscriptions than we need, our finances begin to clutter much like our living spaces. Kathi and Tonya share personal stories on saving thousands of dollars by auditing their monthly subscriptions, canceling those that went unused, and exploring alternative solutions. They’ll also introduce you to the idea of Low by July, a practical exercise in mindful spending. This episode is brimming with relatable anecdotes, actionable tips, and a call to reclaim the financial freedom many of us don’t realize we’ve lost.

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group (the Kindest Corner of the internet!)
Clutter Free For Life

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And we are talking money today. We are talking money, money, money. And I am here talking money with my friend Tonya Kubo, who, you know, we just have so much of it. We don’t know what to do with it. That’s the problem, right Tonya? Yes.

Tonya Kubo (00:33)

Right, right. That money

tree in the backyard is like worse than a lemon tree.

Kathi Lipp (00:37)

It’s been so…

Now, okay, did watch, speaking of trees, I watched a video last night of somebody talking about, he’s in construction and somebody, they were working on their house and they said, ? you should probably tell your workers not to eat the apples off of that tree. And he said, my goodness, I’m so sorry.

Normally when we go and work on people’s houses, they have no problem with it. And she said, no, it’s no problem. It’s just that those have not been processed. And he said, well, what do you mean? She says, well, those are like backyard apples, but they’re not store apples. he’s like, so tell me what’s wrong with them? And well, they haven’t been processed like as if they were going through a store and we just don’t want any of your workers to get sick.

And so she honestly thought that the apples at the store were a different kind of apple, like a different variety than the one. And he’s like, well, why would you have an apple tree? And she says, it just looks pretty. And first of all, I’ve had apple trees before. Those are the messiest trees in the world if you’re not constantly eating them. OK, so that was a tangent that we didn’t need to go on. But you know,

Tonya Kubo (01:42)

Hmm.

They are super.

Kathi Lipp (02:04)

Because apple tree, well, don’t we all wish that we had an apple tree in our backyard now because we know some prices are gonna be going up here pretty soon if they haven’t already gone up for you. And we had a challenge in our Clutter Free for Life, which is our paid group. this was an impromptu challenge, but it was based on something I’ve been working on, I would say for the past five months. And.

Tonya Kubo (02:10)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:31)

I just realized it’s very easy for me. We have become the this is the decade of the subscription. I know there were subscriptions before. I know there will be subscriptions in the 2030s, but this is where people said you can’t start a business unless it’s subscription based. Maybe it’s been longer than this, but this is where like I can. I have noticed that subscriptions keep.

Tonya Kubo (02:41)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:02)

I anything I want to buy they want it. I was trying to buy socks the other day. They wanted me to buy a subscription to socks. I’m like, yeah, I’m not doing that. Like I’m not changing out my feet. I don’t wear that many socks. It’s nutso we want to be subscribed to our food. We want to be subscribed to delivery. We to be subscribed to our television. And that was not all the unnecessary expenses in my budget, but it was a lot of them.

Tonya Kubo (03:09)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:32)

And I don’t know about other people who are listening, but I do feel like I have some insight after doing this experiment in Clutter Free for Life. Because I challenge people, just for the moment, could you save $1,000 a year just by going through your budget and canceling subscriptions, canceling things that are coming up that you are no longer using? And while I feel like I crushed this,

You crushed it like a tin can. And I was able to eliminate about $2,500 worth of reoccurring expenses for the year of our Lord 2025. And some of it was through canceling things, some of it was renegotiate. There were so many different varieties. But Tonya, how much did you end up cutting?

Tonya Kubo (04:14)

Mm-hmm.

So by the 28th of February, we actually landed at just shy of 5,000. I think it’s like 4,994 or something or other. Like ridiculousness.

Kathi Lipp (04:37)

It’s crazy.

Oh my gosh, did you so, when I find

$6 more and just, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (04:46)

Well, was Brian and I was like, what if I cancel this? He’s like, Tonya doesn’t count if you cancel it this month and then live to regret it and restart it next month.

Kathi Lipp (04:54)

Right, right. Well, okay.

You know what? This may be my first time that I ever disagree with Brian Kubo because we all know that I’m a Brian Kubo fan. But if you cancel something to see if you can live without it and you realize, yeah, no, this is really important to me. I think that’s a victory, but I understand his premise. So I don’t disagree with him, but I do think that there

Tonya Kubo (05:10)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (05:23)

there is value in saying, I’m gonna pull back, nope, I’ve decided this is worth the $12 a month. So I wanna get into this because I think it’s really, I think it’s a great challenge to see, could you eliminate $1,000 of reoccurring expenses in your year? And you think, well, $1,000 over an entire year doesn’t feel like very much, but.

Tonya Kubo (05:26)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:51)

Could you use an extra $80 a month? I know I can. And maybe if you haven’t been paying attention to your budget, maybe you could eliminate $2,000. It’s not that you’re not paying attention, but at one point in your life, at least for me, at one point in my life, Brit Box was very important to me. And then it became not so important to me. At one point in my life, I was helping, I bought a subscription for my kids.

Tonya Kubo (06:03)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:20)

that

was very important to them. Well, they don’t use it anymore. So why am I paying for it? So these are some things. why, I really believe that clutter and finances go together. Okay, so tell me what you think about that because it’s important to me.

Tonya Kubo (06:24)

Right. Right.

they totally do. Totally do.

Well, feel

like clutter and finances go together for a few things, right? So we know that we cluttery people really struggle with overwhelm, we struggle with decision fatigue. you you sign up, subscriptions are the bane of our existence, because you sign up and then they’re just like out of sight, out of mind. And then you, you know, in some cases, and this was something that Brian had figured out a few months ago,

Kathi Lipp (06:53)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (07:10)

you’re subscribed to the same thing in three different ways. So that sort of stuff though, like the cluttery person’s overwhelming decision fatigue, I think leads to a lot of overspending, duplicate spending, also just unintentional spending. Like if you knew that was coming out of your account every single month, you would have canceled it long time ago, right? So there’s that piece, but then there’s the other piece where it just, I think it just weighs on our mind. I mean,

Kathi Lipp (07:27)

Great.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (07:39)

Ten charges coming out of your account every month are ten different things to keep track of.

Kathi Lipp (07:46)

It’s so true. this is why it’s so much like clutter, because it’s very easy to mindlessly have things come into the house and then they accumulate. You have to take care of them. instead of being intentional about what comes in, it’s very easy. Subscriptions are just habits that are unexamined habits sometimes.

Tonya Kubo (07:52)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (08:14)

I know, you know, when I was in my first marriage, when I first got married and we were paying bills, you you’d sit down with your checkbook and you had your stack of envelopes and you had your stamps. And I think it was 13 cents at one point. I mean, like, you know, we’re talking back in the olden days and you knew every dollar that was going out of your account. That’s just not the case anymore.

Tonya Kubo (08:23)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (08:40)

And

so it’s very easy to let those things build up without doing it. So Tonya, I told people was go through your bank account and see, you what are those reoccurring charges? What are those things that are coming out that maybe you’re not paying attention to? But you took it to a whole new level because you realize they’re getting money from us in ways that we may not even be aware of.

Tonya Kubo (08:50)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

yeah. Okay. So I feel like here’s what’s really important is to understand that I have my own business. So part of why I could save almost $5,000 a year is because I did this in my business account in addition to in my personal account. But what we’re, it’s all real money. It affects how much I get to pay myself. Right? So that, that counts too. But to your point, you know, on my business side, there’s only like

Kathi Lipp (09:17)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Witcher is all real money, by the way. It’s all real mo- Yeah.

Exactly. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (09:40)

one way things come in or two ways, right? I either use my business debit card or I use PayPal. That’s it. That’s how I get charged on things. But I was not prepared for this, Kathi, but you’re right. I figured it out really fast. On the personal side, there are the bank account charges, right? The things that use your debit card. But then if you have credit cards, there’s the things that you put on a credit card and forgot you put on the credit card.

Kathi Lipp (09:47)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (10:08)

And

if you don’t max out your credit cards, how would you really pay any attention? It’s like if your credit cards are always at zero, you’ll notice. And if your credit cards are always maxed out, you’ll notice. But if it’s anywhere in between, you wouldn’t. But then what we also discovered was PayPal subscriptions. So I had subscriptions hiding out in PayPal that I had no other record of that had to be canceled in PayPal, couldn’t be canceled anyplace else.

Kathi Lipp (10:16)

Mm-hmm.

Right. Hmm. Okay, yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah. Right.

Tonya Kubo (10:36)

which then led us on the trail of Google Pay or Apple Pay. Sometimes you have subscriptions directly through those. anybody who has done any of those, like if you do a lot of online shopping, right, you’ll notice that some, there’s shop accounts and they collect, they’re the ones who are facilitating your subscription service. There’s links.

Kathi Lipp (10:45)

Mm.

Guess.

my goodness.

Tonya Kubo (11:04)

So Kathi, I found subscriptions hiding in like six different locations just on my personal site.

Kathi Lipp (11:12)

It’s insane, right?

Tonya Kubo (11:13)

Right. And part of how I noticed was a couple hit that I wasn’t expecting. So the PayPal thing was I had an Evernote subscription. I started using Evernote in 2016 when my mom died. I’m like, no, no, it would have been 2015. So when my mom died, I needed a way for us to have all the information associated with her death and I needed to be able to access it at my computer.

Kathi Lipp (11:21)

Mm-hmm.

Mm, right.

Okay.

Tonya Kubo (11:41)

or on my phone and I needed Brian to be able to access it. And Evernote at that time was the easiest way to do that. So did you just hear me say my mom died in 2015? Yeah, so I haven’t actually accessed Evernote for anything else since then. And yet I got this notification from PayPal that they had processed a charge. And I’m thinking like, I don’t have anything coming out of PayPal. And it’s $120. And I go and look.

Kathi Lipp (11:47)

Mm-hmm.

Right? Ten years ago?

Tonya Kubo (12:11)

And it’s like, I’m still paying for Evernote?

Kathi Lipp (12:16)

Wow.

Tonya Kubo (12:17)

Why would I think about it? I haven’t touched it in years. But so that’s a charge that got canceled.

Kathi Lipp (12:20)

Right. That’s insane.

Yeah. it’s heartbreaking. It’s heartbreaking. And you think about the money that has been wasted. But here’s we’re going to reframe it. The money that will no longer be coming out of your account. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:28)

Mm-hmm.

Exactly. Exactly.

And you know what? I know that we have a lot more to talk about on the savings front, but we should probably take a break, pay some bills, and then we’ll come right back.

Kathi Lipp (12:43)

Yeah. Okay. Yep.

Tonya Kubo (12:51)

And we’re back and we are talking about how we are saving. So Kathi, I just shared how I cut expenses that I kind of didn’t even realize I was spending for maybe a decade or so. How about you?

Kathi Lipp (12:52)

Okay.

You know, so a lot of things I did I realized a lot of my things were hidden inside of Amazon So, you know like Brit box and thing Acorn TV, you know things that you’re like, I’m totally into this show Well, I’m into that show and then I never use it again. So that was a problem and I I had to

Tonya Kubo (13:14)

Mmm.

You

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:34)

I had to reframe some of my thinking from, know, when it’s clutter, it’s like, do I need this to with subscriptions? Do I use this? Not will I use this? Because and you know, they they really play with our mentality saying, well, if you cancel it now, if you resubscribe later, it’s going to be more expensive.

Tonya Kubo (13:43)

Mm-hmm.

was hoping you

would address this because I think that holds us, Cluttery people in bondage, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (13:59)

It’s so true because but I I had to think about okay, but if I cancel it and I resubscribe a year later That will cover me forever. That will cover me forever so and I am not paying for anything that I’m not using and so one of the things that I did was what are the alternatives so One thing that ended up being so interesting

Tonya Kubo (14:18)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:28)

was I was looking over all my subscriptions. This is something that’s really interesting. The subscriptions you actually use, are there other benefits that come with that subscription? So one of them for us was we were paying for Paramount Plus, which is like CBS. Because we use it all the time. Well, come to find out, our Walmart subscription had free Paramount Plus.

Tonya Kubo (14:37)

Mm-hmm.

includes it.

Kathi Lipp (14:57)

It included the one with the commercials, which Roger, every time we watch commercials says, we should pay for the, and I’m like, no, stop that, stop. You can sit through a commercial. Go to the bathroom, go put some more ice in your drink. that’s right, and I’ll scream, it’s coming back on! But what are the alternatives?

Tonya Kubo (15:05)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Go do what we did in the 80s, Roger.

Kathi Lipp (15:23)

we have become very impatient and I blame social media and I know you love social media, but I’m gonna blame social media here for something because it used to be a movie would come out and yeah, you talk about it with your friends, but you could see it. You could wait six months until it was out on VHS or on disc or whatever like that. But social media makes you feel like you are missing the most important thing in the world if you’re not at Wicked on opening night.

You know, it comes to find out you will live. You probably will live. Now there are things that will be exciting for you and you’ll want to go see, but you know what? It’s okay if you don’t do that. What are some alternatives? Can I wait to read that fiction book until it’s available at my library? Because there I can get it for free. What free apps could I use? Do I really need another subscription?

Tonya Kubo (15:58)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:22)

Or should I go investigate what’s actually on YouTube? Because there’s a lot of stuff on YouTube. Tubi, T-U-B-I, is a free streaming service. And if you’re like, yeah, but it doesn’t have this thing that I want to watch. One of the things that we are doing is we canceled our Apple subscription. We canceled a few other subscriptions, and we’re using the free versions, or we’re not using anything. But I will go back and subscribe.

Tonya Kubo (16:27)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:50)

You maybe every six months for a month and I’ll watch on Apple the morning show and Severance and like, you know, all the things I’ve been waiting for is going to be an awesome month. But, you know, for right now I can watch things on Paramount Plus. We do have Max, which has a lot of great shows. So we’re using that. But when it comes time for me to go to Apple, I’ll cancel my Max subscription for three to nine months.

Tonya Kubo (16:57)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:20)

and

wait till the things that I wanna watch are on there and it’s okay. I probably will not die. So I wanna let people know that every July we do something great in our Clutter Free Academy group and we do a Low by July. And so can you give us a little glimpse into what we do in our free group in the Low by July?

Tonya Kubo (17:24)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so Low By July is simply about paying attention to your spending. So it’s not a spending freeze. It’s not, my gosh, I can’t drive across town because I’m not allowed to fill up my gas tank. It’s simply trying to minimize the impulse purchases we make, right? So it’s really looking at, you know, do I need to go to Starbucks every day?

Kathi Lipp (18:05)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (18:17)

Do I need to go to Starbucks once a week? Are there alternatives that maybe I want to explore? And if ultimately you say, get so much joy out of going to Starbucks once a week compared to making coffee at home, then hey, that’s okay. So it’s really just figuring out how can you be more intentional with your spending and really focus on what makes sense for you and your family. And we do it in the free group because we know that the biggest…

Kathi Lipp (18:30)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (18:45)

contributor to clutter is what we bring in the house. So if we can minimize what comes in the house, then our in-home decluttering efforts have a greater impact.

Kathi Lipp (18:48)

Mm-hmm. Great.

Yeah, it’s so easy to just do the same things out of habit You know, this is gonna sound ridiculous But I have been buying too much asparagus. Let me just be honest. Let me let me confess here There has been too much asparagus buying in my life. I’ve been buying the Costco size asparagus it’s just me and Roger and while we enjoy asparagus we don’t enjoy it that much and

Tonya Kubo (19:16)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:24)

What I’ve also come to notice in my patterns is we tend to eat a ton of asparagus when we’re grilling. But we’re not grilling right now because it’s March. And so to just take a step back and look at some habits that maybe you have that has been causing you to spend money. And so Tonya today, I’m gonna throw away some asparagus and I’m gonna do it guilt free. But what I’m not gonna do is put it

Tonya Kubo (19:31)

Hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:53)

back on my Costco shopping list, I’m gonna put it back on there with a little parentheses that says May, because Mother’s Day is when we can pretty much guarantee we’re not gonna get more snow. And so this is the same thing. I’m gonna ask you to look at your habits. so a couple of things I wanna encourage you to do. Go over to the Facebook group, which is Clutterfree Academy, Kathi Lipps Clutterfree Academy.

Tonya Kubo (19:55)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:24)

and join us. So when July comes, you’ll know when we do our low by July, you’ll be you’ll already be a part of the group. You’ll already know. But I also want you to do something else. I would love this is my challenge to the people who are listening. Do a quick audit. What subscriptions or services are you paying for but not using? And we had somebody in our paid group, Clutter Free for Life, who said, I’m not doing this.

Tonya Kubo (20:41)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:53)

I’m not doing it because I grew up without a lot of money and I don’t want to be told what I can and cannot do and I want to enjoy these little luxuries in my life. Can I tell you that’s the exact opposite? I don’t want you, I don’t want you canceling things that bring you joy. I think many of us could eliminate a thousand dollars just by getting rid of the things that we are literally not using.

Tonya Kubo (21:11)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:24)

Or the next level is maybe we’re using it sometimes, but it’s not worth the amount of money we’re paying for it in proportion to the joy that we’re getting from it. And that’s what I want you to think about. if you’re willing to take the challenge, what I would encourage you to do is get into, just keep a little Excel spreadsheet or even on a notepad and go through your bank statement.

Tonya Kubo (21:36)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:53)

and figure out what those charges are because they do a really good job of calling them different things so you don’t know what you’re actually being charged for. So one of things I would encourage you to do is just take that name and put it into Google if you can, you know, if it’s, you know, Starbusters. Okay, what’s Starbusters? Is that a Starbucks, you know, sign off? Is it Starlink? I don’t know.

Tonya Kubo (22:15)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (22:22)

but find out what it is. Somebody else will have Googled that and they can tell you what you’re paying for. And get rid of the things that are not actively improving your life. I wonder if many of our people could be saving 200, 500, $1,000 a year. Guys, so do the quick audit, get rid of some of those big ticket items. Next time, what we’re gonna be talking about,

Tonya Kubo (22:29)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (22:51)

we’re gonna talk to Tonya about how she renegotiated some of her bills. And I did one too. Let me just tell you, my savings were less than yours, but they all count. then cutting down on some of those reoccurring charges that are not bringing joy to your life. This was a great episode. Thank you so much, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (22:55)

? yes I did do that.

Hahaha

? thank you for having me. This was great.

Kathi Lipp (23:16)

Okay, well.

Tonya Kubo (23:19)

And I think we are about at time, Kathi, but I want to say that I really hope that everybody listening takes that next step to do a quick audit. You are going to be amazed. And please make it judgment free. Don’t be like me. Don’t be all sad and feel like you have to go to confession in order to talk about the Evernote subscription that you had for a decade and you didn’t know about. Just judgment free, shame free. Just do that audit and see what you find.

Kathi Lipp (23:32)

Yeah, yeah, right.

You

Tonya Kubo (23:46)

And we will see you next time when we talk about those big ticket savings. So you have been listening to ClutterFree Academy. Now go create the ClutterFree life you have always wanted to live.

#667 – Clutter Free Finances: Taking Control of Subscriptions

Apr 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Mental Load, Overwhelmed, Podcast

On this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep into the world of subscription services and the hidden costs they can incur over time. As many of us fall into the habit of acquiring more subscriptions than we need, our finances begin to...

#666 – The Nightstand Reset: Creating a Launch Pad for Peace

Apr 22, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo delve into the importance of a tidy nightstand for a better night's sleep and a more organized life. They discuss Kathi's recent purchase of new nightstands with built-in outlets, her nighttime routine...

#665 – Declutter Your Spice Cabinet: From Chaos to Cooking Bliss

Apr 15, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo tackle one of the most deceptively frustrating spots in your kitchen: the spice cabinet. If you’ve ever bought a second (or sixth) bottle of basil because you couldn’t find the first one, or had cumin...

#666 – The Nightstand Reset: Creating a Launch Pad for Peace

by Roger Lipp | Apr 22, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast | 2 comments

#666 – The Nightstand Reset: Creating a Launch Pad for Peace

Listen Now

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo delve into the importance of a tidy nightstand for a better night’s sleep and a more organized life. They discuss Kathi’s recent purchase of new nightstands with built-in outlets, her nighttime routine essentials, and practical strategies for keeping your bedroom clutter-free. Whether it’s finding the right furniture, using drawer dividers, or setting up a night basket, Kathi and Tonya offer a step-by-step system to help listeners turn their nightstand into a launchpad for an organized day. And don’t miss the listener challenge that encourages you to declutter your own nightstand and reap the benefits.

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

Sand & Stable Scarlett 2 – Drawer End Table and Built-In Outlets & Reviews | Wayfair

Download the Free Guide:
The Nightstand Reset – your 10-minute guide to a more peaceful evening

FYI: Some product links may be affiliate links. If you buy, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support!

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)
Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with Tonya Kubo, leader of all things clutter free. Tonya, we are back into small spaces. We love a good small space. you know, our last podcast was our spiciest episode ever. And now it’s Tonya and Kathi after dark.

Tonya Kubo (00:40)
I you hide these from me just to get my reaction.

Kathi Lipp (00:44)
come on. actually that one that one I just came up with.

And let me tell you, on one of my favorite podcasts, Wirecutter. At the end of the podcast, they ask, what’s your favorite thing that you’ve bought recently? And so Tonya, want you to, I want to pretend I’m on Wirecutter and I want you to ask me that question. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (01:10)
Okay, so Kathi Lipp, what is your

favorite thing you have bought recently?

Kathi Lipp (01:14)
I’m so glad you asked. I’m so, so glad you asked because I’m so excited about this. And I bought it. I actually don’t have it. So maybe check with me in six months to see if I still love it. But can I tell you, you know, something I have discovered Tonya is I am really good at decluttering and I am a total cheapskate when it comes to organization. Like I’ve, I’ve thought for years, I don’t need to

Tonya Kubo (01:24)
Ha ha ha ha!

Ha!

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:44)
buy all these wacky organizational tools. don’t need, and then I’ve come to find out sometimes you do. You’re creating the system, but to keep the system going, sometimes you’re like, okay, I just need to do this. And so I have finally broken down and I have bought new nightstands. Now I haven’t bought a new nightstand. I’m not exaggerating. Since I was married the first time,

Tonya Kubo (01:47)
Mm-hmm.

I’m right.

Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

Kathi Lipp (02:14)
And that was in 1990. So I have not bought a nightstand for myself in 35 years. So I’m going to tell you about this nightstand. So the nightstands we have now, because they were passed down when we bought this house, so you could say we bought it since we bought a house and these came with it, but I digress. They’re very open. And so you see everything.

Tonya Kubo (02:17)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:43)
And

I don’t like that look. And no, I am not a Swedish girlie. I wish I could be, but that is just not how I live my life. And so I’m reverting back to the nightstand of my youth, which was two drawers. And one drawer was for everything you need every single night. And the other drawer is for things you may need less option, but you definitely want to have.

Tonya Kubo (02:45)
You don’t like the open concept nightstand, is that what you’re telling me?

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:12)
And now these new nightstands have in the top of the nightstand, they have built-in chargers.

Tonya Kubo (03:23)
What? Like, like chargers for a phone or like, like outlets for like a regular cord?

Kathi Lipp (03:24)
Yes. Yes.

Outlets

outlets so you can put your USB cords in them and Yes, and can I tell you how excited I am about this little update and the reviews on these are really good I’ll put them. It’s on Wayfair. I’ll put a link so you guys can see them, but That is what we’re talking about today is nightstands because we’re going through the house and we’re doing all these little micro spaces and

Tonya Kubo (03:36)
God

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (03:59)
These microspaces make the difference day to day of how we operate our life. So let me ask you about your nightstand situation, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (04:02)
Mm-hmm.

well, mean, my nightstand situation is not that exciting because the way our house is set up. So we have one nightstand and that’s on Brian’s side of the bed and it is one drawer and a shelf at the bottom. So it’s kind of a hybrid of what you have. And then on my side, because the bed has to be pushed so close to the dresser, I just use the top of the dresser as my nightstand, which is problematic because I don’t get the benefit of drawers because it’s our dresser drawers.

Kathi Lipp (04:16)
my goodness.

Yes. Yes, yes.

okay.

Right.

Yes. Yeah, that I think you got the short stick.

Tonya Kubo (04:40)
totally got the short end of the stick. And if you come into our bedroom, it makes him look like Brian is the organized person. And I am not because of course for him, he just tucks everything into the drawer before he like leaves in the morning. Meanwhile, everything, you know, like my eye drops and all of my stuff has to be on top of the dresser. So it’s just not an ideal situation. It’s one of those things where we’ve talked about like,

Kathi Lipp (04:50)
Okay.

Beautiful.

Mmm, yes.

Tonya Kubo (05:06)
Well, we should do it differently, we’re like, okay, well we have to wait till we buy a new dresser and then we can do this and then we can do that. And then suddenly I’m tired. I don’t want to change.

Kathi Lipp (05:10)
Yeah.

Right. It’s

the give a mouse a cookie of nightstands and nobody needs that, right? So I have found part of the reason that I’ve made this change is a couple of reasons. One, Roger has a CPAP and we need a place to put all of that nonsense, right? But the other thing is I have noticed when my nightstand gets too backed up,

Tonya Kubo (05:18)
Exactly!

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:42)
I

actually don’t sleep well because I’m afraid my phone’s going to fall off. I’m afraid about that glass of water. Like, and I at night, I don’t want to spend time cleaning all that nonsense up, but I really do feel. And this is this. If you listen to our podcast listeners from Dr. Vicky Casper, where she was talking about getting better sleep, she says a neat organized bedroom.

Tonya Kubo (05:48)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:12)
Impacts

your sleep in really really good ways And so I know that a neat surface actually helps me fall asleep faster It it feels more invite. I love walking into our room when the bed is made the nightstand is clear and it’s like, It’s just all waiting for me. Does that make sense? I don’t know Yeah

Tonya Kubo (06:29)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, it totally makes sense. And I also

think that, you know, I’m a big proponent of routines, like having a solid morning routine and an evening routine. And my thing is, your evening routine should be all about making your morning easier. And your morning routine is all about making the end of your day easier. And so I can imagine having a tidy nightstand really makes the mornings easier at your house.

Kathi Lipp (06:39)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely. And I just want to sink into bed. And, you know, I have a little routine that I do each night. And to have all of that there and then to have what I need in the morning, my phone, my glasses, all that kind of stuff. It just makes everything better. OK. go ahead.

Tonya Kubo (07:11)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so was going to say, so, so, you know, we’ve talked about the value of a tidy nightstand. We talked about a couple of different nightstand situations. So let’s just say our listeners not there yet, Kathi. Our listener doesn’t have the open concept nightstand that is soon to be replaced by a closed concept nightstand.

Kathi Lipp (07:28)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I get it.

I

am waiting for the FedEx guy right here. I am.

Tonya Kubo (07:44)
Yeah,

with power associated with it. Like that’s my favorite part of the whole thing. So walk us through how to get started. Okay, the nightstand is out of control. What do we do?

Kathi Lipp (07:48)
my goodness, right?

Yes, me too.

Yeah.

Okay. And by the way, I have been perfect. My nightstand that I’ve had has been perfectly serviceable. It’s just not my ideal situation. And right now I wanted to do something for me. So it doesn’t matter what your nightstand situation is. It all starts the same way. So first, again, as, as long time listeners, this podcast has been going for a decade now.

Tonya Kubo (08:17)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:26)
I’ve always said don’t pull everything out at once and put it in the middle of the room, but we’re talking about super small spaces here, tiny, tiny, tiny spaces. So I’m gonna tell you, pull everything out. I want you to pull out the books, the cords, the lotions, the random socks. I mean, we’ve all been there, right? Let me talk about other things I have in there, like the tweezers, the chapstick, and then you’re gonna sort this into a couple of different piles, so keep.

Tonya Kubo (08:26)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:55)
What truly belongs? So do you have medications that you need to take at night? That phone charger, your chapstick, maybe you have a little vase you want to keep on that nightstand. I like to a pin at my nightstand, my glasses. So I’m going to keep those. And then another pile is relocate. What has wandered there that does not need to be there?

Tonya Kubo (09:11)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:23)
I’m embarrassed. I don’t know. You I have weird stuff there. And also I have too many pairs of glasses. I don’t need like four pairs of glasses right there.

Tonya Kubo (09:33)
Okay, do you want to the weird stuff that’s in Brian’s drawer when I clean it out? Candy wrappers. He hides the candy wrappers because you know he’s like sneaking the candy so that one of the two children doesn’t see and then he stashes the wrappers in the drawer.

Kathi Lipp (09:36)
I don’t know, do I?

yes.

Well, you know what? Go off, King. That’s all I have to say. Brian has lost a ton of weight. He’s gotten so healthy. Whatever candy he wants, Brian gets. So…

Tonya Kubo (09:55)
Ha ha ha ha ha!

to say it’s so funny is I’ll go to his drawer to like look for something because that’s oftentimes where we have a backup charger. I’m like, of all, I didn’t know we had peeps and there were twicks in this house and nobody told me I am not okay with this.

Kathi Lipp (10:10)
Yeah.

Yeah, right. Okay,

can I just go a little off topic? I think what I need to put out into the universe, because I have dropped this hint too many times and have been ignored by Roger Lipp, the Japanese assortment of Twix. Have you guys, you seem like the household that would have had these at some point.

Tonya Kubo (10:24)
Sure.

Mm-hmm.

yes. Yeah,

well we’ve had the Japanese assortment of Kit Kats. There’s like 40 different versions. Yeah, 40 different versions. Yes. I’m just gonna tell you right now, strawberries and champagne, hard pass. It tastes like rotten grapes. Just gonna tell you right there. I did a whole like Instagram live on it because they were so bad. So bad.

Kathi Lipp (10:45)
That’s what I meant! I’m sorry KitKat, not Twix. Yes.

really? Okay. Eww!

I had no

idea. Okay, but I want to try the rest of them. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (11:05)
The rest of them are amazing, especially

the ones that they have that you’re supposed to broil. Yes, we can talk about this after the episode.

Kathi Lipp (11:10)
What? Okay, we have, we

have real, no, people will email me. Okay, just tell me, how do you broil a Kit Kat?

Tonya Kubo (11:20)
It is a regular KitKat, but you’re supposed to like broil it and they have these in-depth instructions about what the degrees are and how long because you have to be careful because it starts to melt. But it’s I think it’s toasted marshmallow flavor. And then so you broil it to like toast it. But it ends up just being a melty mess and it’s delicious. It’s worth the mess.

Kathi Lipp (11:27)
Okay. Okay.

Okay.

Okay,

so guys if you want to know how to do that I would say go on AI or google because I I don’t know but I We need to figure this out. Okay, so you have your keep pile things you want to keep in your nightstand You have your relocate? Apparently candy wrapper. Well the next the kitkat candy wrappers go into the next day discard recycle trash old receipts anything that’s expired etc, etc and

Tonya Kubo (11:45)
Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (12:08)
Before you reload this is the time to get out the handy vac you want to go deep in there you want to get all of that cleaned out give it a good wipe let it air out a little bit and a clean slate helps you see how much space you really have and then We’re gonna we we’re going to I want you to wipe down the top, too I want you to you know, just whether you use furniture polish a Clorox wipe, whatever it is

Tonya Kubo (12:33)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:38)
Just make sure you’re starting off with a clean slate.

Tonya Kubo (12:43)
That sounds good. you know what? It’s time for us to take a little break before we get to the rest of it. But when we come back from the break, stay listening because we’re going to talk about the right furniture, the right accessories, these important things that will help you maximize your space. We’ll be right back.

Kathi Lipp (12:47)
Okay.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:02)
All right, and we are back talking right furniture, accessories, and really getting to the practical. How do you do the thing? How do you have an effective nightstand? So Kathi okay, so you’ve upgraded to the two drawer nightstand with built-in outlets. I was hoping that you would talk to us a little bit more about.

Kathi Lipp (13:18)
Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (13:24)
why you felt like that was the right solution given your current circumstances, because you already told us what you have now is actually serviceable.

Kathi Lipp (13:27)
Yeah.

It’s totally fine, but I will say I did have to put like a basket on the second layer. know, so we have a drawer up top, which is a very thin drawer and then a, just a shelf at the bottom and I had to put a basket on that. So that would be the basket I pulled out at night with like my face cream, all that kind of stuff. So we’ll talk more about that in a second, but I just wanted, I wanted to be able to close things up at night and just be done, but also,

Tonya Kubo (14:01)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:02)
Be able to see what I have and what I need and so this little tiny drawer I have it’s fine But it means everything has to be stored laying down and it just it wasn’t smooth Let me just say that it wasn’t smooth and so I I do have a really lovely solution that my my lamp is built is attached on the wall

Tonya Kubo (14:31)
Mmm. That’s nice.

Kathi Lipp (14:31)
So it doesn’t take any space up.

that’s really nice because that can take a lot of your usable space top. I just, at 57, I wanted to walk into my room and not have it be so utilitarian, but just to be lovely. If I wanted to, you know, we have wildflowers here. I want a little vase of wildflowers. I want my book to be on my nightstand.

Tonya Kubo (14:40)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:58)
I don’t want a bunch of medications, know, tissues, that kind of stuff. I want it to look lovely. And I will say one other thing I’ve done that this would not work for my friend Brian Kubo, who is trying to sneak his candy. But we have put between our nightstand and our bed, just a thin, clear, waste paper basket that, you know, so for that occasional tissue, that occasional candy wrapper, like the things we can just throw them in there and

Tonya Kubo (15:09)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (15:26)
It does help keep that space a little bit neater and tidier.

Tonya Kubo (15:31)
Yeah, well, I can imagine, you know, I know for us we have blown through charging cables because of tripping, tripping over the cord. So this sounds to me like that would solve that problem as well.

Kathi Lipp (15:37)
Mmm. Yes. Yes.

Yes, I think, you know, and the chords make, we have so many chords in our life. And I get sick of looking at chords. I mean, it’s not, is it going to disrupt my whole day? But no, to have less chords is kind of a beautiful thing.

Tonya Kubo (15:49)
Mm-hmm.

you

Yeah, and then I just want to say like on the inside drawers, we’ve talked in prior episodes about the honeycomb or box dividers. So I just think it’s important to highlight the fact that if you have drawers, we’re not necessarily saying just dump everything in there equally. There are drawer solutions in terms of organizing as well.

Kathi Lipp (16:05)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

No, no.

Yeah, I’m gonna wait till I get these drawers in my house and then I’m going to Put the dividers in that we’ve talked about, you know, these are spring-loaded so that they’ll fit in almost any drawer and The honeycomb box so I can put little things in there. But yeah, that makes it so much Everything’s standing up. You can see everything at once

Tonya Kubo (16:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so what else do you have for us?

Kathi Lipp (16:45)
Well, you I’ve told you about my night basket before, in case nobody’s heard about this before. This is just a basket I use at night. So I have things in there like I’ve got a pill organizer that, you know, there are a couple of medications I take at night. So I put those in there. I have face wipes, the Neutrogena face wipes, because I’ll just be honest, when it gets past seven o’clock,

Tonya Kubo (16:49)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:12)
If it’s a choice between me getting out of bed to wash my face or laying in bed with my Neutrogena wipes or not getting out of bed at all and going to bed to sleep, Neutrogena wipes for the win. And then I have facial cream. have neck cream. Now I do get out of bed to brush my teeth, drink my water and stuff, but every once in a while, I’ll be honest. I would say, you know, maybe once a week, maybe once every other week.

Tonya Kubo (17:15)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:42)
I’m like, I can’t even, and I know that grosses some people out. So one of the things I’ve done is I keep dental wipes in there. So, you know, they’re loaded with toothpaste and I can just, and I’ve got little tiny toothbrush and I keep my dental floss in there and it just makes my life easier. I also will take some vitamins at night. So like I keep everything in that bag. I will, I don’t know what my bag is going to look like with this new setup.

Tonya Kubo (17:49)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:10)
but I will have some kind of little bag or tote that I can pull out and have everything that I need at night. And one thing I’ve just added to it is just a little Tupperware container that has a moose treat in it. And because she comes to bed with me and I just wanna have a little routine for her at night. So it corrals all my bedtime routine into, know, steps into one place. And I am 93 % more likely to do it because I have it all together.

Tonya Kubo (18:10)
Mm-hmm.

you

Yeah, I love that. And you know what? A little bit earlier you were just saying you get sick of looking at chords. Any tips in that front?

Kathi Lipp (18:46)
Yeah.

So I would say one of things that we’ve done is and I feel like this is absolute genius. I got a multi-pronged outlet and I put Velcro on the back of the outlet and then the other Velcro on the back of my nightstand. And so I can I can take that off. I can plug everything in and then I can slap it on the back.

Tonya Kubo (18:59)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:16)
and you don’t see all those chords going crazy. just, I feel like that was kind of a genius solution. makes me super, super happy.

Tonya Kubo (19:20)
Well…

Got it. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I’m visualizing, which is why I’m talking slowly. So what about emotions? Cause you know, Kathi over in Clairefree Academy and our Facebook group, you want to believe that there’s not like it, it’s just stuff or you want to believe that something in the house doesn’t have emotion, but there’s emotional connections to everything for someone, right? So how do you address that side when it comes to the nightstand?

Kathi Lipp (19:30)
Yes.

Yeah, everything. Yes.

Yeah, I think, you know, it’s a little bit, we talked about the underwear drawer the other day and how we keep sometimes sentimental things there. If you’re going to display something on your nightstand, I think it’s an excellent place to put it. But I think what we, know, Tonya, our grandmothers and great grandmothers had trousseaux. They had, you know, a keepsake chest where they could keep all those things. And we’ve gotten away from that. And I think that each of us,

Tonya Kubo (19:57)
Mm-hmm. Yeah!

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:24)
needs a box, a place to put those things that maybe are not going to be displayed, but are still precious to us. Because if they’re in our nightstand, I don’t know about you, but I just told you all the lotions and potions I keep in my nightstand. If I’ve got a love letter from Roger, do I really want that next to my bath and body works, you know, hibiscus? No, I don’t. Let me keep that in a special place. Let

Tonya Kubo (20:29)
Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

huh.

Kathi Lipp (20:51)
So let, if you wanna keep a framed photo or something like that, that’s lovely, go for it. But if you just don’t know where else to keep it, get a box that is just for things that are important to you because we all have memories that are important to us that maybe we don’t have to keep it, but you know what? We get to keep some silly stuff. We get to keep some emotional stuff. I think that that is okay. I just want you to also think about

Tonya Kubo (21:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:21)
We talked about this in our coat closet using that as a launch pad what if you thought of your nightstand as your you nighttime shutdown area and your morning launch area So i’m gonna keep my glasses here. I’m gonna keep my phone here. I’m gonna keep my e-reader here These are the things you know, i’m charging my watch i’m keeping everything here I have a little notepad here if I want to keep notes. This is where my book goes

Tonya Kubo (21:26)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

you

Kathi Lipp (21:50)
So you have all of that that you need when you wake up in the morning and you reset it at night and it’s good to go. You you have your bottle of water. Like I put a bottle of water next to my nightstand every night and I may take a sip, a couple of sips at night, but the first thing I do when I wake up in the morning is I chug that whole bottle of water because I forget to drink water during the day.

Tonya Kubo (22:12)
Mm.

Kathi Lipp (22:15)
But if it’s right there next to my nightstand, I’m gonna chug it as soon as I get up when I’m at my thirstiest. So think of it as your lunch.

Tonya Kubo (22:24)
I love that. I love that. Okay. So nightstand as a launch pad, which I think is a powerful reframe. And Kathi just want say thank you because you are the person who is designing these episodes for practical action for our listeners. just get to show up and ask questions and be curious. It’s like my favorite thing. And listeners, I’m just grateful to you.

Kathi Lipp (22:41)
You

Tonya Kubo (22:46)
for joining us, lending us your ears and taking advantage of all of these practical tips. So we’ve covered the why, the how and the emotional side of decluttering your nightstand. Your challenge this week is going to empty the nightstand. Try Kathi’s advice of setting up the night basket, maybe invest in a pillow organizer and see how it transforms your evenings. Make sure to check out the show notes though, cause we’ve got resources there for you to all different places and a handout that goes along with this episode.

Kathi Lipp (23:13)
Mmm, you got

go ahead Tonya. I was just gonna say one other thing is that make sure that you’re regularly cleaning it out It’s easy to let silly things like a lotion sample or you know, something along those lines just Don’t don’t get in your own way when it comes to the nightstand. You don’t need to keep all that stuff I’m sorry. I stepped on you, but it just occurred to me. Yeah

Tonya Kubo (23:18)
Mm-hmm.

no, you’re all good? Well,

because maintenance is so important, right? I think we’ve done a great job of talking about how to get it to a status. And what you did was remind us that it’s worth the time to keep it there. So thank you, friends. You’ve been listening to ClutterFree Academy. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

Kathi Lipp (23:42)
It really is. Yeah.

#667 – Clutter Free Finances: Taking Control of Subscriptions

Apr 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Mental Load, Overwhelmed, Podcast

On this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep into the world of subscription services and the hidden costs they can incur over time. As many of us fall into the habit of acquiring more subscriptions than we need, our finances begin to...

#666 – The Nightstand Reset: Creating a Launch Pad for Peace

Apr 22, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo delve into the importance of a tidy nightstand for a better night's sleep and a more organized life. They discuss Kathi's recent purchase of new nightstands with built-in outlets, her nighttime routine...

#665 – Declutter Your Spice Cabinet: From Chaos to Cooking Bliss

Apr 15, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo tackle one of the most deceptively frustrating spots in your kitchen: the spice cabinet. If you’ve ever bought a second (or sixth) bottle of basil because you couldn’t find the first one, or had cumin...

#665 – Declutter Your Spice Cabinet: From Chaos to Cooking Bliss

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Apr 15, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Podcast, tips and ideas | 0 comments

#665 – Declutter Your Spice Cabinet: From Chaos to Cooking Bliss

Listen Now

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo tackle one of the most deceptively frustrating spots in your kitchen: the spice cabinet. If you’ve ever bought a second (or sixth) bottle of basil because you couldn’t find the first one, or had cumin avalanche onto your counter, this one’s for you. The duo shares budget-friendly, sanity-saving solutions to bring order and accessibility to your most flavorful clutter zone.

In This Episode You’ll Learn:

Why your spices should spark joy—and scent

Kathi’s five-tiered spice strategy (yes, really!)

Creative storage options for tiny kitchens, RVs, and big Costco-sized bottles

How to group spices for ease: singles vs. blends

The $13 Amazon tool that might change your dinner routine forever

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

Tiered Shelf
Expandable shelf
YouCopia Spice Organizer
Kathi’s Facebook Page (cooking lives are on Wednesdays!)

Download the Free Guide:
Spice Cabinet Makeover PDF– A step-by-step plan to sort, toss, and organize.

FYI: Some product links are affiliate links. If you buy, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support!

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:54)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And guys, just welcome to our spiciest episode ever.

Tonya Kubo (01:10)

the puns.

Kathi Lipp (01:12)

Well, okay, we should let you guys know you don’t have to hide your kids for this this isn’t spicy like book talk spicy this No, no, no and you guys We we are here to talk about your spice cabinet very exciting right Tonya

Tonya Kubo (01:19)

Yeah, there’s no chili pepper spiciness on this one.

Super exciting. I mean, if you like to cook, it’s definitely exciting.

Kathi Lipp (01:35)

Yes, and we are just going to take advantage of some of our experience with organizing our spices and how to get that from going from cluttered and chaos to cooking optimized. That’s exactly what we want.

Tonya Kubo (01:53)

Yeah. And so Kathi, I’m just curious. I first of all, I’m loving the series that we’re doing where we’re taking like these small sections of the house that plague all of us so much when it comes to clutter. They just get out of hand easily. And I know that I’m not alone because we have this episode. So I know that you have the same problem where the spice cabinet drawer, whatever you like to do with your spices, like goes cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. So

Kathi Lipp (02:04)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (02:23)

Talk to us about yours.

Kathi Lipp (02:25)

Well, okay, I can talk to you about before, before I found the solution that actually works for me, because I’m gonna save that till the end, as you know, Tonya, I’m very proud of my spice system. yes.

Tonya Kubo (02:34)

Okay.

I know you are. I know you are. And I

haven’t seen the latest one, I don’t think.

Kathi Lipp (02:44)

Okay,

so well, I think you’ve seen part of it, but yes well there are layers much like a spicy stew. There are layers to my spice cabinet. Well, okay. So for years I tried different things. I did your traditional spice rack where you know, it was hanging up in the kitchen, but I didn’t love that because I I’m never the only time I ever owned spices where their containers matched.

Tonya Kubo (02:47)

Okay.

Ha ha!

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:14)

was the

Tonya Kubo (03:14)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:14)

day after I got married. Like somebody gave us a spice container. So I’ve had the kind that spin on your cabinet. I have the kind on the wall. But I also, not every spice company is equal. And some of them have spices that I really like. And then there are others like, I’m not a fennel person. Like fennel, my mom apparently,

Tonya Kubo (03:16)

Got it.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:40)

was addicted to fennel and anise. So black, black licorice flavors when she was pregnant with me. I can’t stand either of those. So like, I don’t need any of those. But you know, they come in different sizes, different containers, like, and what is a spice? I mean, I know what a spice is. But also, we have other things like the baking soda, baking powder, vanilla paste, all that kind of stuff.

Tonya Kubo (03:45)

Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (04:07)

So mine was kind of a jumble some of it looks super organized, but I wouldn’t say it was super functional and I would just waste time You know because some of the spices were behind other spices And then I’d run low on the spice and I’d re buy that spice only to find out. I actually had that spice somewhere

Tonya Kubo (04:10)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (04:31)

Spices should not be this big of an issue in a human’s life. It just shouldn’t be. How’s your spice situation?

Tonya Kubo (04:40)

Yeah,

equally frustrating, but in different ways. Because for us, like before I even met Brian, so like we’re going back a lot of years, I always bought re refillable spice containers. So I had a selection of spice containers, and then I just buy like bulk spices in bags and go in like that, and I replace it, which is awesome.

Kathi Lipp (04:44)

Okay?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, okay.

Tonya Kubo (05:06)

They have a little label on them. They’re beautiful, except for the cumin, which somehow got too close to a burner is halfway melted. But aside from that one, right? It’s beautiful. But the problem is I don’t actually have enough. think I have 24, which works for like the main spices. But you know, Mr. Kubo is a big fan of the Trader Joe’s seasoning blends. And I am not devoting a label to

Kathi Lipp (05:08)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

yeah, I get it.

Tonya Kubo (05:34)

a seasoning blend that may or may not have a long time shelf life in our house. And I already have my other ones full.

Kathi Lipp (05:42)

Yes, and you know, I just saw a TikTok where a woman who’s neurodivergent has a Trader Joe’s spice. I think it was the pizza spice that they just discontinued and she was heartbroken. And yes, I can see not wanting to dedicate a whole label to something because you’re not, you’re not.

Tonya Kubo (05:47)

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (06:08)

discontinuing basil. Like, yes.

Tonya Kubo (06:11)

Right, well exactly.

And like a lot of mine are like single spices or single herbs, right? And so with the blends, it doesn’t make sense to put the blends in there, because we go through various blends. And then we’re back to the issue that I think you were alluding to, right? So I’ve got some that are like in the little tiny short containers, like the half an ounce or whatever. Then I’ve got some that are in that four ounce container.

Kathi Lipp (06:16)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Right.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:37)

Then I’ve

got some we’ve gotten from Costco, right? So they’re ginormous and they barely fit in the cabinet. And part of it is I have to rely on my memory to let me know like, okay, am I looking in my refillable spices? Do I look in the cabinet or do I look in the drawer? Three locations, Kathi, three. For spices.

Kathi Lipp (06:41)

Yeah.

Right. Right.

I get it

for spices. It should not be this much drama. But if you like to cook or you’re forced to cook, spices make everything better. And so we’re gonna need to figure out this spice situation, right?

Tonya Kubo (07:14)

Mm hmm. Yeah. We and well, we need to figure it out. And I think what, Kathi, we owe it to our listeners to give them a variety of options. Right. And so I think what we can do is I think we have enough time before we cut to commercial to go through a couple of options and then we’ll take our break. How does that sound?

Kathi Lipp (07:26)

Yes, absolutely.

Okay,

I think that sounds beautiful. Okay, so the first thing I think you need to do is we need to declutter your spices and people, know, declutter your spices. But I’m guessing if you do any amount of cooking, you have a couple of basils, you have a spice that you tried from Trader Joe’s and you realized it’s nobody’s favorite or

Tonya Kubo (07:45)

Mm-hmm.

Can I tell

you which one that is? Trader Joe’s seasoning salt. It is the worst thing I’ve ever tasted and I figured out why. It has a bunch of celery salt that, and in my mouth, celery salt tastes bitter. I like celery, but celery salt is very bitter to me, overpowers the whole thing. I hate it.

Kathi Lipp (08:04)

Yeah, do tell.

really?

Okay.

Yeah. Okay. and you,

yeah. Okay. See guys, if you don’t like celery salt, Tonya just saved you four bucks. And yes. So again, you guys know I’m not a huge fan of pull everything into the middle of the room and sort it out, but we are talking microspaces here. Your spices in most houses are microspaces.

Tonya Kubo (08:43)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:47)

So I am going to encourage you to take everything out of the cabinet and I want you to do some things like check for expiration dates. Now, I will say this. I’m not worried if your cilantro is expired. The only thing, you you’re not going to die of cilantro poisoning as far as I know, but your spices get less effective the older they are.

Tonya Kubo (09:14)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:16)

So if you can’t smell the spice, you need to toss it. If you have six basils, maybe take a couple of unopened ones to the food pantry or give them to a friend or something like that. And then one thing you can do, you can group them. Now, I’ll tell you how I group mine. I have a couple of different ways. So we have your basic set of spices and then I have my blends.

So I have two different areas for that. So my basil is not, my basil spice is not next to my bohemian spice because the bohemian is a blend, the basil is a regular. you know, so there’s herbs, ground spices, baking essential, and also let’s keep the things that we use the most towards the front. So if you have a cabinet or something like that, but,

Tonya Kubo (09:56)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:14)

Here’s why we’re gonna go through so many different iterations of space spice organization is because in every place I’ve lived I’ve had to organize differently because my kitchen layout has been different and you just have to work with what you have because none of us here are Remodeling our kitchen cabinets because of basil. We’re just not doing it so

Tonya Kubo (10:25)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (10:39)

The first thing I want to talk about is a tiered shelf or expandable rack. So this is very simple. This is part of my solution. This is part of the solution I have for things like my vanilla bean paste and my I have a cinnamon shaker and I have a powdered sugar shaker and I have baking soda and baking powder and all these different kinds of things.

Tonya Kubo (10:52)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:06)

And those are not going to fit into my spice rack situation, but they do fit on these tiered, think of them as stairs. And so if you were putting your humans on the stairs, you could put tall people in the back and then shorter people up front. But even if they were kind of the same height, you’d still be able to see the people in the back because they’re on a taller step. That’s the same thing I do.

Tonya Kubo (11:16)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, right. Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:34)

Some of my spice blends and things like that that they’re a little bit bigger a little bit more awkward You these come in bamboo and by the way, we’ll have links to all of these You know Amazon links to all of these in the back mine are white plastic and they expand so they fit into the space in your cabinet and Yeah, it makes it so you can see everything at a glance. So like I have some barbecue seasonings there

things like that that I don’t use all the time, but I want to know about. And so we’ll put those links in there.

Tonya Kubo (12:12)

Awesome. my gosh, this is so helpful, Kathi. And especially, I really liked the idea of keeping the, I’ll call them the single ingredient spices separate from the blends. Cause I think that is incredibly helpful. So, okay. So you’ve told us like we first got to declutter. We got to pair it down, consolidate, toss, whatever you need to do, but let’s pair it down so that we don’t have six basil. Cause that

Kathi Lipp (12:23)

He has.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (12:41)

would be a problem for most of us, maybe not all of us. Then you talked about the of the simplest storage solution it sounds to me is this expandable like shelf sort of stair step thing. Do you feel like it’s the most affordable solution too?

Kathi Lipp (12:48)

Yeah.

Right?

Oh yeah, by far the most affordable. You I think those things you can buy them for like 10 to $13 and that’s really gonna amp up your space. But I think the next most affordable one is, and here’s the thing, I would never personally use this solution. Cause I feel like a kitchen drawer is about the most valuable space in your entire house. But I know for some people, this is the magical solution. And this is, it’s a pullout spice drawer.

Tonya Kubo (13:12)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:25)

or you know, what it does is you can pull out the drawer, the spices are laying down in the drawer, but they are segmented out. so there are a couple of pullout drawers we can talk about. That’s one where you can pull out just one of your cabinet drawers or your kitchen drawers and those spices are laying down. There’s another one that I think is really interesting.

Tonya Kubo (13:35)

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:51)

that I have not tried, but I might at some point, especially in our RV where space is limited. And this is like, it’s a pull-out, and we’ll have pictures of all of these in the notes, but this is like a pull-out cabinet, pull-out rack where the spices are standing up. So you can, it’s both sides, it’s like toy soldier rows of spices where you can see them standing up.

Tonya Kubo (13:54)

Mm-hmm.

Okay,

so it goes in a cabinet, but it’s a drawer system that fits inside a cabinet versus having an organization system that fits inside of a drawer.

Kathi Lipp (14:22)

Yes.

Exactly. there I’ve I’ve confused us. I get it. I really have Yes

Tonya Kubo (14:32)

No, it’s okay. I summarized it. We’re good. This is the

beauty of having two of us here. Well, and the reason I wanted to pull that out and clarify is because I think there are a lot of people who do prefer some kind of drawer based system. So having a solution for the people who do want to use their own drawer, right? But make that work for them is helpful. And then also for somebody who

Kathi Lipp (14:50)

Yes.

Yes. Right.

Tonya Kubo (15:00)

maybe has a little extra cabinet space, but that doesn’t work for them because they don’t like the cabinet layout, then they can get a drawer system to insert. my gosh, this is really actually, it’s quite creative, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (15:06)

Right.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. I

I really I I think if you can solve this problem You can improve your nighttime cooking routine by a solid seven percent Yes, yes

Tonya Kubo (15:24)

Ooh, I like a solid 7%. Not too high,

not too low. This is good. Okay, let’s cut to commercial really quick. Pay some bills. We’ll be right back.

my gosh. So we are back talking about, think one of the most valuable pieces of real estate in your home, which is the space you allocate to spices. Cause it seems like a small space, but it can get out of hand really, really quickly. And Kathi is walking us through a variety of solutions on how to tame that incredibly chaotic area. So you heard us before the commercial break. Now we’re coming back. Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (15:48)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (16:05)

Talk to me about what I think is everybody’s practice when it comes to organizing. I think most of our listeners are probably already shocked that we haven’t brought it up.

Kathi Lipp (16:17)

Are you talking lazy Susans? Okay, and I will say this is part of my, I apparently, I don’t think I realized it until we did this episode that I have like a five, five layer solution to all of this, but it’s just, it’s where we’re at. It’s what works. And so I have a lazy Susan, very tall lazy Susan that I keep things like, you know, the Costco size,

Tonya Kubo (16:19)

I’m totally talking lazy Susans.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it’s what works.

Kathi Lipp (16:46)

containers of They’re the blends, you know, so the those kind of things. I keep them on the lazy Susan. I also keep some other You know like seasoning salts and things like that on there and that is just you know You turn around you’re doubling or tripling your space The problem is whatever on the inside of that lazy Susan will never be seen again Yeah, so you either you either have to not care about it

Tonya Kubo (16:59)

Mm-hmm.

I was gonna say it never sees the light of day.

Kathi Lipp (17:16)

or you just have to promise yourself that you’re not gonna fill up that space. But really, where is there a space in your kitchen that has not been filled?

Tonya Kubo (17:24)

Never. Now I have a question about the lazy Susan though. So my experience with lazy Susans, it doesn’t take long before eventually they don’t quite spin as smoothly as they used to. And so then that’s what drives me up a wall. Cause I’m like, I have what looks like a lazy Susan, but it is not lazying around for me.

Kathi Lipp (17:25)

Right. Yes.

Okay.

Mm-hmm Yes, okay

So you may have to turn that thing take everything off turn it upside down and see if there’s anything blocking the mechanism Or you mention may just have too much on it Yeah, and it’s well it’s probably too stuffed and it’s getting stuck in a corner or something and so maybe you just need a little TLC

Tonya Kubo (17:50)

Hmm.

it never occurred to me that that could be a problem, but that’s probably the problem.

Mm-hmm.

Alright, okay, so, lazy Susan, what else do we got?

Kathi Lipp (18:09)

Yeah,

okay, so if you are super super tight on space in your kitchen So these are some I’m gonna give you some rapid-fire solutions that I have used in spaces like Our RV where there there is no space the space doesn’t exist. So one of those things is There are under cabinet Storage for yeah, so you can see all that. I think that that is ideal for somebody who says

Tonya Kubo (18:15)

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:38)

here are the eight spices I’m going to use. I am not bringing blends into my kitchen. I will make the blend. So that’s an option for that. Another thing that you might want to consider is a holder for the side of your refrigerator. If many refrigerators are not magnetized on the front anymore,

Tonya Kubo (18:43)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (19:03)

but they are on the side. And so there are so many great storage solutions. So if you’re working in a tiny apartment or an RV, or maybe it’s a work kitchen cabinet, and you just have a little bit of space, one of those magnetized things will help it so you don’t lose that shelf in your kitchen that is so, so valuable. So something along those lines, thinking outside the box is really, really helpful in those situations.

Tonya Kubo (19:16)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

well, I mean, exactly, right? It’s like, you really just have to look at your kitchen and go, you know, what, what is my usable space and what makes the most sense to put here and be willing to be creative. Cause to your point, I’ve seen a lot of knife organizers, for instance, that could go on the side of the fridge, that are magnetized side of the fridge or side of the stove. And of course these are for people who do not have children. Cause I could just see how that would work.

Kathi Lipp (19:38)

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah.

Exactly.

Abby.

Tonya Kubo (20:02)

But just be exactly. But

you know what? Spices could be a safe thing to magnetize to the side of my fridge. So I love that creativity. But I hear a rumor that maybe Roger told me, maybe Roger didn’t tell me, who knows, that you have actually a super duper favorite solution to spice organization. Lay it on us.

Kathi Lipp (20:08)

Yeah. Right.

We’re

my goodness.

You know can spice organization actually be life-changing. I don’t know But if it could be this would be the one it’s from a brand called utopia and it’s not it’s y-o-u like you topia and It is I it’s so interesting. So it’s a plastic Set of shelves that when you pull it out when you pull out a shelf

Tonya Kubo (20:32)

You

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (20:56)

it drops down so you can see all of the spices on that shelf. And of course, I’ve labeled the edge of each shelf so I know what’s on there. But this, it lays it out so beautifully. You know I do a cooking show every Wednesday on Facebook. And I love it. Every time I need a spice, I can just go there and I know I have it. And so part of

Tonya Kubo (21:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:25)

keeping that system working. I have one for my basic like basil and then I have another set that is for my blends like Bohemian. And I love it so much because I can see at a glance what I have. I keep those at least two thirds full. I feel like that’s kind of the, that’s when I need, I know I need to get something else unless it’s a crazy expensive spice like saffron.

Tonya Kubo (21:31)

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (21:55)

Saffron,

you know, if we’re gonna wait till we get down to the bottom before we’re my goodness, right? Because yeah, that’s a different tax bracket if you are or you live in a different country where saffron is not quite that expensive Yeah that and vanilla holy cow, but I love this so much. It makes it so much It’s so easy. You can see what you have at a glance It doesn’t matter that I buy some of my spices from savory spice

Tonya Kubo (22:00)

The last thread!

is easier to get.

Kathi Lipp (22:24)

and some of them from Whole Foods and some of them from Safeway because nobody sees them but me. I just keep them all behind there and it fits most of your containers. So I do have a couple where I’ve doubled up on some of those little containers and it just looks it looks nice and it makes me it makes me smile every time I use it.

Tonya Kubo (22:31)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, well, and I think that’s important, right? Because if we have to eat, I mean, the truth is, is we have to eat, we don’t necessarily have to cook. But if we have to eat and we choose to cook, we should have a measure of enjoyment in the cooking experience. And to your earlier point, the frustration, having like the spices fall out on you or fall onto the cabinet when you’re trying to get to something that really can take, even if you enjoy cooking, that can rob the joy from.

Kathi Lipp (22:56)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes.

It really can.

Tonya Kubo (23:17)

So now I have a hard question, Kathi, because you know me, I like to throw you curve balls now and then. You have laid out a lot of solutions and you know, our listeners and our Facebook community members, we struggle a little bit with some decision fatigue. Notice how I put myself in that picture just now? Yeah, I said we, it wasn’t the royal we. And so with so many choices, how do you help us decide?

Kathi Lipp (23:20)

Okay, I love a good hard question. Let’s do it.

Mm-hmm.

Sure. Yes.

I can actually answer this pretty easily. You need a tape measure. You need a tape measure. Yes, but you know what? The tape measure helps you decide what actually is going to work for your space. And so you may think, youtopia that Kathi’s talking about, that will change my life. And then you go to measure your cabinet and you’re like, it would change my life if it fit, but it doesn’t.

Tonya Kubo (23:47)

Okay.

That was not what I saw coming, but okay.

Hmm.

Yeah

Kathi Lipp (24:13)

So

I’m not going, so you can do this through process of elimination. So get a tape measure out, check these links that we’re sharing with you on Amazon and see what will actually fit for your space. And I would just say, give yourself a half inch grace on most of these things because not that I think they’re lying to you, but just to make sure that it can fit well. And really consider a combination. What I’ve really used,

Tonya Kubo (24:17)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (24:43)

is the youtopia spice organizers, the lazy Susan, and the stair stepping shelves. And that fits all of my needs. And if I can’t fit it in one of those things, I probably don’t need it. It would be a very rare thing that I would need something outside of.

Tonya Kubo (24:50)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And I think that’s just a great thing to remember. It’s like, if this doesn’t work, like, first of all, how likely is it that the solution wouldn’t work? And if it didn’t work, what would be the circumstance that would make that the case? And then how do you work around it? my goodness, Kathi. Okay. So I feel like it is important to remind our listeners of all the resources that are available. We have mentioned a lot of things in this episode. Please do not walk, but run over to the show notes.

Kathi Lipp (25:17)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (25:32)

Click the link that’s in your player and you want to definitely pay attention to all the resources that we have for you there. So we will give you a link to the Clutterfree Academy Facebook group just in case you want to talk this through, share some before and after pictures, see other people’s before and after pictures. We will have a link to a downloadable PDF resource for you and a quick spice checklist. This whole series includes

resources that you can download and print out or use on your device, whatever makes you happy. And Kathi mentioned this, but she kind of snuck it under, so I want to reinforce it. You can catch her cooking live on Facebook. That is her author, Kathi Lipp page, every Wednesday. If you just go to the page, it’ll tell you what time the next one is. And you can see her kitchen live and in real time.

Kathi Lipp (26:22)

Yeah, and here, let me just give one more little piece of encouragement here. When you are looking at ordering these things, look on Amazon and oftentimes there will be a note that this item is often returned. Now, it always blew me away that the reviews are like a 4.7, but the item is often returned.

Tonya Kubo (26:41)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (26:49)

and

that’s because people ordered it and it didn’t fit in their kitchen. we, know, us cluttery girls, we love to take a flyer and just, you know, we want to order when the mood hits us and we can’t find the tape measure, so we’re not gonna worry about it. Take the extra five seconds to go find that tape, or five minutes, let’s be honest. Go find that tape measure, measure the space, so.

Tonya Kubo (26:53)

Yep.

Kathi Lipp (27:15)

because I want you to have wins. Tonya and I want you to have wins in every part of this. And I’m also gonna say one other thing. Tonya, you and I both do an extreme amount of cooking. Most of the food we eat, we cook. You and I both buy spices from Costco. Don’t buy spices from Costco if you’re not cooking on the regular. I will say, I guess there is another portion to my spice.

Tonya Kubo (27:26)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Kathi Lipp (27:43)

You know what I’m holding on to to those really big jars I keep those in my garage and when I’m refilling my spice containers one thing I’ve discovered I don’t know if this holds true for you. I’m never shaking spices into a soup or a casserole I’m always measuring them. So I take those stupid little shaker tabs off Because I don’t use them but when I refill I refill with a piece of paper that I’ve fashioned into a cone because

Tonya Kubo (27:58)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (28:11)

If I’m refilling spices, I’m refilling a lot at the same time. And I don’t want my basil to get into my cumin, or let’s be honest, more likely the other way around. And so I’m just using that paper to do it over and over and over again. So those are my last little hits.

Tonya Kubo (28:19)

Mm-hmm.

I love it. I

have a little itty bitty baby funnel. It is the tiniest cutest funnel you’ll ever see. Can’t tell you where I bought it, but it works really well. All right. Well, Kathi, thank you so much for sharing these tips with us, helping us to spice up our kitchens. And listeners, I just want to say thank you for hanging out with us. We appreciate the fact that you lend us your ears. You have been listening to Clutterfree Academy. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

Kathi Lipp (28:30)

do you? Yes. I love that.

I love it.

Woohoo!

#667 – Clutter Free Finances: Taking Control of Subscriptions

Apr 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Mental Load, Overwhelmed, Podcast

On this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep into the world of subscription services and the hidden costs they can incur over time. As many of us fall into the habit of acquiring more subscriptions than we need, our finances begin to...

#666 – The Nightstand Reset: Creating a Launch Pad for Peace

Apr 22, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo delve into the importance of a tidy nightstand for a better night's sleep and a more organized life. They discuss Kathi's recent purchase of new nightstands with built-in outlets, her nighttime routine...

#665 – Declutter Your Spice Cabinet: From Chaos to Cooking Bliss

Apr 15, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo tackle one of the most deceptively frustrating spots in your kitchen: the spice cabinet. If you’ve ever bought a second (or sixth) bottle of basil because you couldn’t find the first one, or had cumin...

#664 – Transform Your Underwear Drawer: Tips for a Peaceful Start to Your Day

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Apr 8, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast | 0 comments

#664 – Transform Your Underwear Drawer: Tips for a Peaceful Start to Your Day

Listen Now

In this laugh-out-loud and surprisingly transformational episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep—literally—into the drawer that gets no love but causes a whole lot of frustration: your sock and underwear drawer. From chicken footprints and Sharpies to mismatched socks and holy underwear, they uncover the oddities that sneak into this tiny space—and provide the simple steps you need to bring peace and order to your most intimate drawer.

In This Episode You’ll Learn:

Why worn-out socks and too-tight undies deserve a swift exit

The magic number of pairs you really need (based on your lifestyle!)

Kathi’s favorite affordable organizing tools (spoiler: cereal boxes included)

What to do with all the random stuff hiding in your drawer

Why your underwear drawer should be the least stressful part of your day

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

Download the Free Guide:
Declutter Your Sock & Underwear Drawer Cheat Sheet – A step-by-step plan to sort, toss, and organize.

FYI: Some product links are affiliate links. If you buy, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support!

Clutter Free Resources:

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my Clutter co-creator. Yeah, we create clutter together, but we also clean it up together. It’s Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. Okay, this is Clutter After Dark.

Tonya Kubo (00:24)

Hey, Kathi!

Kathi Lipp (00:33)

This is our most intimate episode ever. Guys, we’re talking underwear here. Can I just say, before we talk about getting into discussing, we’re talking about decluttering your underwear and sock drawer. Now, first of all, Tonya, do your underwear and sock co-mingle? Like, how are you set up?

Tonya Kubo (00:38)

Can we have

Yeah, so my underwear, socks, co-mingle.

Kathi Lipp (01:04)

Okay, okay. And when I’m saying underwear, I’m meaning all the categories, okay? So like, okay. Yeah, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (01:09)

Yeah, yeah. So like for me, it’s like camis and

like long, like long johns and stuff for when I travel to cold areas. My slips, all of that. That’s all one drawer with the socks.

Kathi Lipp (01:17)

Okay.

Okay,

there are gonna be people who are like, what are slips? I mean there really will be. That’s okay. Hey, so, but you didn’t slip, okay, nevermind. We’re gonna stop with all the puns. Yeah, my underwear, sock drawer, it’s bras, sports bras, tights, all of that kind of stuff. And they’re all very individual. But I do wanna say this. If you have never tried…

Tonya Kubo (01:25)

I know. I know. But I have a slurp.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:49)

the sports bras and underwear from Costco, may I highly suggest like I I I’ve I have converted I have converted fully and I’ll put the links down there to they’re not affiliate links. A lot of the things we do in here are affiliate links, which means hey, the clutter free people make a little bit of money off of this. So but these are not Costco doesn’t do that kind of thing. But I just love them so much. And you know what?

Tonya Kubo (01:53)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:17)

I love that I can pick up some new underwear next to my rotisserie chicken. Just makes me super happy. Okay, so if you are tired of mismatched socks, holy underwear, or random junk in your drawers, today we have got a very quick plan to fix it. We are gonna talk about matching socks, we’re gonna talk about organizers, we’re gonna throw out.

what’s worn and unloved, we’re gonna get you into shape. Because I don’t know about you, Tonya, like my first thing I do in the morning is drink coffee, and the second thing I do in the morning is get ready. So gathering up what I’m going to wear is one of my first jobs, and I don’t wanna be mad first thing in the morning. So this feels like a good launching point for us.

Tonya Kubo (02:45)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no, I agree. And so, and this is timely for me because I just went through my socks and underwear drawer. We just did a deep laundry decluttering of everybody’s clothing and such. So, but I have a feeling that your situation’s a lot different than my situation because you have fewer people and you don’t have children in the house. So tell me what was your drawer situation before you tackled it.

Kathi Lipp (03:14)

Did you? Okay.

nice.

Yeah. Yes. Right.

Okay, so I have one big giant drawer and I was trying to kind of put things into piles. So like there was a sock pile and there was an underwear pile and a miscellaneous pile. And then also let’s talk about the nonsense that was in my drawer because that’s a running theme in this podcast. So I probably would win.

Tonya Kubo (03:38)

Mm-hmm.

You

Kathi Lipp (04:01)

the award for the strangest thing kept in my underwear drawer, which was a footprint of one of my chickens who has passed. I…

Tonya Kubo (04:16)

see why you would keep it in the underwear drawer though.

Kathi Lipp (04:18)

I didn’t know what else to do with it. And so like it was one of those things where I, yeah, I just didn’t know what, I think a lot of things that we don’t know what to do with end up in that kind of drawer. Okay, do tell me.

Tonya Kubo (04:33)

I’ll make you feel a little bit better, Kathi. So in mine,

baby teeth, because where are the kids guaranteed not to look, right? They’re not going to dig through mom’s underwear. The second thing is during the pandemic, right? I couldn’t go to a salon and get pedicure. So I bought like all the salon stuff and all the extra like foot files and that thing that looks like a bar of soap, but is actually like porous that they scrub your foot with. I have one of those in my underwear drawer. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (04:38)

Yes, yes, I… Right, exaca. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yes, right?

Okay,

yes, yes.

Tonya Kubo (05:03)

Yeah.

So and then I have like just random stuff. have markers, Sharpie markers that I didn’t want Abby to get into to draw on the walls. Put them in my underwear drawer, of course. So there you go.

Kathi Lipp (05:10)

Yes.

Look,

and why do receipts end up there? That’s a good question. Receipts, phone chargers, things like that, right?

Tonya Kubo (05:20)

Yeah. Right.

Totally. Totally true. Okay. So we got a picture of your drawer and all the randomness. What was that like during your day to day life? I imagine you weren’t having to take out the chicken foot imprint every single time to get ready, but still there was probably like, I don’t know, some wasted effort.

Kathi Lipp (05:36)

No,

Okay, well, I’m admitting all my foolishness in one place, okay? So why did I have socks in there that the elastic was blown out on? I think I was just so happy that I matched the sock that I didn’t care if I actually liked the sock.

Tonya Kubo (05:58)

Right?

My college roommate used to say, if it’s washed, it has to be worn before you can get rid of it. Otherwise you wasted the effort of washing. Yeah. So any things she would like come out with like, holey underwear. And she’s like, no, I have to wear these, but as soon as I wear them, I will throw them away. And I’m like, I would throw them away now actually.

Kathi Lipp (06:10)

I totally get that.

Okay. Yes.

my goodness. Yes. Because what if you end up at the hospital with holey underwear? I’m, you know, like this is deeply embedded in me, but here’s the thing, something that I haven’t really talked with you a bunch about, you know, I have, you know this, I have a bad back and I have done a lot of strength training and everything like that. And you know, they show all these commercials for people, for shoes to put on.

you know, when it’s hard for you to bend. And for me, it’s just one side of my body. What they don’t talk about is the socks. The socks, shoes are not a problem for me. It’s the socks. And so here’s the problem. If one of my, I tend to watch, wear those no-show socks because I’m a Gen Xer. That’s what we prefer. And if one of those socks slips down while I’m in the middle of Costco,

Tonya Kubo (06:53)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:20)

It’s not going back up. Yeah, and so like those need to be gone friend. Those need to be gone. Yeah, it’s my secret chain. Okay, so it was frustrating. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (07:20)

yeah, yeah.

Okay, it was frustrating.

But you’re on the other side, Kathi You are teaching us from the other side. So, and what I love about the series that we’ve been talking about, where we’re tackling these small spaces, is your solutions are just simple and yet with high impact. So tell me where you got started with your underwear and socks drawer.

Kathi Lipp (07:37)

I am.

Yes.

Okay, removing all the single socks. Like, okay, why are single socks there? I think what I thought was, well, when I find the other single sock, I will go back there. What I finally did is I just have a bag with single socks, and after a little while, like, I’ll gather all of them up, and I’ll say, these have been in here for three months. Now, if I don’t find them in the next go around, they need to be thrown away. But also, throwing away socks where

Tonya Kubo (08:16)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:26)

The elastic is blown out on them. They’re not the ones I like. They feel funny on my feet. Now, let me also say, when I was a single mom, it didn’t matter if they felt funny on my feet. I was keeping them because I was broke, right? But can we all agree if your underwear is falling down, it’s time to throw it away. If it’s cutting off your circulation or something like that.

Tonya Kubo (08:30)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Kathi Lipp (08:56)

I need you to throw those things away because that’s not how we should be living. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (09:00)

Exactly. Well, I would say if

anything that is supposed to be contained is falling out, you deserve to throw them away.

Kathi Lipp (09:07)

Exactly and let me also say with those single socks. I finally just realized I need to keep those in The laundry room so when I’m done folding laundry if there’s a sock left over I can put that where the other socks go instead of having to do a sock scavenger hunt before I try matching things up

Tonya Kubo (09:16)

Mmm.

Right?

Okay, so you had one spot for your random socks. You talked about getting rid of your worn out unwanted items, right? So the socks that slipped down, the undies that just have lost their containment factor. So once you get rid of all the bad stuff, then what?

Kathi Lipp (09:34)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

They’re not doing it anymore. Yes, exactly.

I’ll also say on the underwear anything you’d be embarrassed to show up at the hospital with you know let’s just go ahead and say you know Stains you know things like that whatever you need to do. Just be done with it. Okay, so now what I’ve done is I’ve used a couple of organizational solutions, so I Don’t know it’s called a honeycomb organizer and Okay, so it is

Tonya Kubo (10:02)

Mm-hmm.

I have no idea what that is. Talk to me, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (10:21)

You put it down in your and I’ll link all of this in our show notes so you can see what I’m talking about. But it’s got like a bunch of little squares. They’re more like trying like diamonds that when you undo this and you can put a pair of socks in there or you can put a pair of underwear in there. So it’s not just a giant pile, but you can see everything you have. And for me,

Tonya Kubo (10:35)

Got it.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:50)

And I think for a lot of people who struggle with clutter, when things are hidden, they’re no longer used. And so this says, no, this is what you have and you can go, I just love going to my drawer and plucking out that orange pair of no-show socks. Nobody’s gonna see them, but I know that they’re there and it makes me so happy. And I can see everything I have. And then I have some small fabric boxes for things like bras or sports bras.

Tonya Kubo (10:55)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (11:18)

tights, underwear, things like that. It just is a way of being able to see everything. Now, I’ve ordered those off of Amazon, but if you are, you know, if money is a struggle right now, which it is for a lot of people, could you use a shoe box? Could you use a tiny shoe box for little kids? At one point in my life, I use cereal boxes for organization. just…

Tonya Kubo (11:47)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:48)

I

had to because I had no money. So those are things you could use. So try using multiple smaller boxes with out lids and that can really help you keep organized in some of, it’s just a drawer divider that will get you to the next step.

Tonya Kubo (12:05)

Ooh, okay, well I am excited because we are going to go on a break, but when we come back, you’re actually going to answer probably one of the most often questions, often asked questions that we get in Clutterfree Academy, which is how many pairs do you actually need? Seriously, Kathi, that question comes up all the time. Plus you are going to tell us what to do with those items that don’t belong. We’ll be right back.

Kathi Lipp (12:08)

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:32)

All right, we are back Kathi and you are going to tell us the secrets of the universe as it relates to underwear and socks drawers. How do we figure out how many pairs of socks and underwear we really need?

Kathi Lipp (12:37)

Yeah

I think the first thing you have to figure out is how often do you do laundry? Because if you’re doing laundry just once a week, figure out how many pairs of underwear, how many pairs of socks you wear in a week. And I would say add two or three, right? Because you want to be able, but if you’re doing laundry multiple times a week, you probably don’t need as many. Maybe you just need divide by two, add three.

Tonya Kubo (12:52)

Hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:17)

So I think really using your scientific method here and saying, what do I actually use? And if you’re like, I don’t know, that doesn’t feel like enough, that feels weird, that feels scary, then what I’ll suggest you do is put in the amount that feels comfortable in that space. So maybe eight pairs of underwear feels good in that space. Do you ever run out?

Tonya Kubo (13:17)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:44)

That’s a great question. Do I ever run out of that space? I tried to dial back to eight. It didn’t really work for me because sometimes I’m wearing more than a pair in a day. know, sometimes when I’m changing for bed, like whatever, everybody has their own routine. So you have to figure out what actually works for you. And I think that that’s okay to do. I also have different kinds of socks. I have the no-show socks and then I have the socks I wear in the snow.

Tonya Kubo (13:45)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (14:12)

So eight pairs of socks is not going to be enough. When it’s cold outside, I need more heftier socks. So you just have to apply a little bit of the scientific method. One thing that really helped me figure this out though, Tonya, was when I, in addition to that honeycomb organizer I talked about and the different little boxes, I put drawer dividers in my drawers.

Tonya Kubo (14:20)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:41)

These are spring loaded so that they fit the short ways in your drawer. So I have now a section for underwear, a section for sports bras, a section for regular bras. It’s like putting drawer dividers in there so that you can section out your space. And that really said, this is how much space I actually have.

Tonya Kubo (14:41)

you

Okay.

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Kathi Lipp (15:07)

for my bras. This is actually how much space I have for my slips or tights or whatever it is. And that really helped me out.

Tonya Kubo (15:08)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

I love that. I love that. And I think that, you you brought up some good points about not just laundry schedule, but also habit. For instance, like when I used to, I used to work out six days a week, not the life I currently live, but I would like there was the workout underwear that served a certain purpose. There was the day to day underwear that served a certain purpose. So that was a time in my life when I needed a lot more than I need now. But I love that idea of combining

Kathi Lipp (15:26)

Yeah. Okay.

Yes, right, yes.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (15:43)

the physical space that you have to fit the things with the laundry schedule. I think that’s really powerful.

Kathi Lipp (15:46)

Yes.

And Tonya, we are not minimalists, but we are minimal-ish. We are always determining what is the least amount of an item that I could live with that still serves its purpose. Minimalists might say, no, I’m going to arrange my life around only having

Tonya Kubo (15:53)

No.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:16)

you know, five pairs of socks. No, we’re going to arrange our socks out of our minimal need that we actually have.

Tonya Kubo (16:17)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, like when we were just going through our stuff, you know, I settled on 13 pairs of underwear. Why? Because I just, because actually it was like, these are my favorite, like these are my favorites, right? And then I made an Amazon mistake, which I’m just sharing with our listeners in case they make the mistake. So sometimes on Amazon, you think you’re ordering one thing and it come to find out you are ordering a package of multiple things. And so I had wanted to get some of those long boxer shorts.

Kathi Lipp (16:31)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yes! Yes!

Yes. Right.

Tonya Kubo (16:55)

to wear underneath dresses. And I wanted a black pair and a white pair and I accidentally ordered packages of eight pairs each.

Kathi Lipp (17:04)

Wow, fancy you.

Tonya Kubo (17:07)

fancy me with my 16 pairs of long boxer shorts that roll all the way up to your hip if you try to wear them underneath jeans. So I just decided that, you know, the 10 or so pairs that did not get worn at all did not need to be with me at all. And Brian was very happy. I think I have my own section of the donation center at this point, but. Right.

Kathi Lipp (17:10)

Right.

that’s so funny.

Right?

I love that. I love that

so much. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (17:35)

So I just want

to share, since we are sharing some Amazon links in the show notes, I just want to let you all know that you should pay attention to both the quantity and also the unit items inside the quantity that you’re purchasing.

Kathi Lipp (17:43)

It’s so true. It’s so true,

absolutely.

Tonya Kubo (17:49)

Okay, so Kathi, talk to me about brands. Because you mentioned like there’s some no-show socks that you particularly like. You like the Costco underwear. But at some point, you were using something else. How do you fit like the whole brands I love versus maybe I spent good money on this? You know the thing.

Kathi Lipp (17:56)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Okay. So my whole life has been, I spent good money on this. I need to wear it as a punishment. One of my favorite discoveries this year is the Wirecutter show. I’ve talked to you about this before. It is the New York Times Wirecutter where they do their product recommendations and they do extensive testing. One of my favorite things that we just bought, Tonya, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (18:11)

Right.

Mmm, yes, yes.

Kathi Lipp (18:36)

My life has changed, we just got a new mattress. And which is a very expensive purchase, right? Now it’s not their most expensive purchase, which by the way, they don’t recommend because they’re not crazy, but it’s a $75,000 mattress that Martha Stewart, but their product tester did sleep on it for six months to say, is this really worth it? Just to make sure.

Tonya Kubo (18:40)

Whoa.

Yeah.

just to make sure it wasn’t worth $75,000,

I’m sure.

Kathi Lipp (19:03)

Right,

she sacrificed, she goes, if I could, I would buy it, but that’s not how I’m choosing to spend my money. So I really listened and that’s how I found out about the Costco underwear, you know, and they like to recommend, hey, if you’re a normal person, this is a decent price to spend to get this decent thing. Well, you know, I’ve owned two pairs of Bamba socks in my life and I love a Bamba sock.

Tonya Kubo (19:09)

Hahaha

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:31)

But you know what, I kept on thinking I could get the same effect with these Costco brands. Now in the Costco underwear, yes, I’m getting great results. The socks, maybe it’s because I have size 11 feet, I don’t know. They’re just not the same. Can I just tell you I doubled down and I got an eight pack of Bamba socks. And I need to wear those until Jesus comes back.

Tonya Kubo (19:46)

Mm-hmm.

Go you!

Kathi Lipp (20:00)

But you know what, here’s the thing. I have bought so many pairs of socks cheaping out and they’re the ones that, you know, when I talk about rolling down my feet, Bombas has never done that to me. They’ve always treated me right. So I think if there’s a brand you love and you’re going to invest in it, then follow the directions on how to wash and dry them.

Tonya Kubo (20:03)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:27)

You know, figure out what’s gonna keep them the brand you love and stick with those brands you love. And if you’ve never tried a bomba sock before, I’ll give you a link, because man, they are just the best. I love them so much, yeah. And you can get a discount code too. So we’ll share those.

Tonya Kubo (20:46)

Okay, well, so we talked a little bit earlier about the weird stuff in the drawers. What’d you do with your weird stuff and how do we prevent just wedging any old thing in our underwear and socks drawer?

Kathi Lipp (20:50)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

So like what I just talked about with the bombas, you want to go to your drawer and everything in there is something that you use and you love and would buy again. The chicken footprint, maybe not. Maybe not. So do you have a place that things that are meaningful to you, but they don’t really have a place in your life?

Tonya Kubo (21:07)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:23)

So one of the things I have committed to myself to do is I’m gonna display that footprint. I’m gonna find a place in the house for it. And it doesn’t have to be, it doesn’t have to be a big place on my wall. It could just be something that I love. Other things that I found in there. Sometimes I put things in there because I can’t decide. And if I can’t decide and I haven’t used it in this long, like I got these.

Tonya Kubo (21:29)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (21:52)

Like I don’t even know how to describe them. They’re like they smell good. They’re supposed to be atomizers, but I don’t really know how I don’t know. They’re weird. I have never used them. I’m just going to throw them away and it’s okay. So only keep things in there that are meant for that drawer. Do you have a box you could put things in? Like these are meaningful to me, but I don’t have a place for them right now. It’s okay to have some precious memory places in your life.

Tonya Kubo (22:03)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and you know, as we wrap up sort of this discussion on the underwear and sock drawer, you know, we’ve talked about in some cases, you’ve got like seasonality that you need to think about. I think for most of us, socks and underwear aren’t seasonal. I know for me, I do have four pairs of like really thick socks that I’ll wear with boots versus my thinner summer socks. But I think you can just honestly tuck them into the back corner of the drawer or just get a small bin if you need to. Would you do anything different?

Kathi Lipp (22:30)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, right.

Nope, you know, the only thing I do differently is I do have fall boxes that we put upstairs and sometimes I’ll put some of those things in there because I know I’m not going to need them before fall. But you know, we’ve got a weird situation here.

Tonya Kubo (23:03)

Yeah. So, okay. So this wraps up our steps that we have gone through socks and underwear drawer. I don’t think we’ve ever spent quite so much time discussing such tiny aspects of clothing, but hey, this is an important thing. I’m curious though, Kathi, socks and underwear, it feels like it can get out of hand easily. How do you keep it tidy once you’re happy with how it is?

Kathi Lipp (23:14)

Yes? Yeah.

Just keep going back to that drawer and saying, does this make me happy? And if you have kids that you’re working with them on that drawer, like are you actually wearing these things that are in the back corner? Look at the bottom of the drawer. Are the things that are never getting daylight? Not that your socks and underwear should get too much daylight. But if they’re not going through the laundry on a regular basis, it may be time to just say, you know what, we don’t need these anymore.

And that’s okay, that’s okay. That’s why I really suggest getting brands you love so that you’re not re-buying mistake after mistake, because I’ve done that. I’ve wasted a lot of money doing that instead of just buying what I love, because I want to go to that drawer and feel like everything in here is something that I’m happy to wear.

Tonya Kubo (24:16)

I love that. Okay. Absolute mic drop right there. Everything is something that you’re happy to wear. Now listeners, you want to check our show notes because we have a simple downloadable guide for transforming that old sock and underwear drawer into a tidy functional space, following the tips that Kathi shared today. And we’ve got links to all the cool stuff that she mentioned, the Bamba socks, the Costco undies. I don’t know what else, but I’m sure, the honeycomb organizer. I almost forgot about that, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (24:43)

Yes, yes,

very important.

Tonya Kubo (24:46)

And

we cannot wait to hear from you next time. Now, Kathi, thank you so much for breaking this down, spending the amount of time that you have in helping us really make sense of this small but important to function space. Any other things you want to add before we close off?

Kathi Lipp (25:02)

Yes.

And we have all been in that broke place where we’re just happy to have any underwear. And I also want you to curate your life. I want your underwear drawer to be the least stressful part of your day. That’s my goal with this podcast.

Tonya Kubo (25:26)

I love that. I love that. Okay. Well, you have been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I am Tonya Kubo with Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#667 – Clutter Free Finances: Taking Control of Subscriptions

Apr 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Mental Load, Overwhelmed, Podcast

On this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep into the world of subscription services and the hidden costs they can incur over time. As many of us fall into the habit of acquiring more subscriptions than we need, our finances begin to...

#666 – The Nightstand Reset: Creating a Launch Pad for Peace

Apr 22, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo delve into the importance of a tidy nightstand for a better night's sleep and a more organized life. They discuss Kathi's recent purchase of new nightstands with built-in outlets, her nighttime routine...

#665 – Declutter Your Spice Cabinet: From Chaos to Cooking Bliss

Apr 15, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo tackle one of the most deceptively frustrating spots in your kitchen: the spice cabinet. If you’ve ever bought a second (or sixth) bottle of basil because you couldn’t find the first one, or had cumin...