#670 &#8211; Emotional Decluttering: A Journey Through Sentimental Keepsakes

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Meet Our Co-Host

Tenneil Register

Tenneil Register can be found creating, repurposing, decorating, gardening and welcoming guests to their reclaimed barn storefront. She and her husband, Cowboy, established rural roots for their blended family of 7 in their DIY ranch home in Iowa. Connect with her on Instagram for practical ideas to reclaim your home.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:08)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And we are back. We have a three-part series here on sentimental items, how hard they are to declutter, what do we do with them, and maybe just a couple of pieces of advice to say it’s okay to get rid of it and prove that you don’t hate.

the other person who gave it to you or your own life. And I’ve got two of my favorite cluttery experts here. We’ve got Tonya Kubo and Tenneil Register. Hey guys, welcome back to the program.

Tonya Kubo (00:48)

Hey, Kathi, .

Tenneil (00:49)

Hey there!

Kathi Lipp (00:51)

Okay, so Here’s what I want to talk about today Because you guys are such geniuses Tonya about making the hard decisions about getting rid of to Tenneil once you’ve made the decision to keep it What do you actually do with it? And Last week we talked about your kids stuff, which has so much emotional attachment next week We’re to talk about the stuff from people who have passed on

I mean, like we’re just bringing out all the hard hitting subjects right now. But today I want to talk about our own stuff. And I want to talk about why do we hang on to things that is that maybe we know we’re never going to use them. We know that we maybe we don’t even really love them, but we feel such an obligation to keep them.

I’ve had that for a couple of different items in my life I feel like Through a lot of growth and let me be honest from a couple of people passing on I’ve been able to get rid of some things But I just wonder do any either of you have any insight to this? Why do we hang on to stuff even? Sometimes I don’t even think it brings back great memories, but we just can’t seem to let it go

Tenneil (02:16)

Letting go is scary because we’re wondering what that means about us and what that means about that relationship.

Kathi Lipp (02:25)

Tell me more about that.

Tenneil (02:28)

So when we’re walking through it and we are still holding on to a physical object, we’re still giving ourselves time to figure it out, figure out the relationship, figure out what it meant, figure out how to grieve, figure out how to hold on. And we find something significant about doing the physical let go. And so we kind of want to know for sure that we’ve done the emotional part correctly if we do the

Kathi Lipp (02:42)

Yeah.

Tenneil (02:56)

physical part correctly. We’re like looking for affirmation.

Kathi Lipp (03:01)

Okay, okay, I totally get that. I have a question for both of you. Are you guys hanger on-ers to your own stuff? We’re not not stuff you’ve been given necessarily, or are you letter goers?

Tonya Kubo (03:14)

It takes me a while. Like I am in general, my cluttery problem is not that I acquire a lot. I am not a big shopper. I just don’t know what to do with stuff once I have it. So I tend to be a keeper. So like what we have been, you we talk about this all the time. It has taken Brian and I have been married now 16 years and it’s just this year that we’re getting rid of the wedding pictures from our first marriages.

Kathi Lipp (03:25)

? yeah.

Yeah, that’s a hard one. It’s a hard one.

Tonya Kubo (03:41)

Well, and it’s back to what Tenneil said, because I’m thinking like where I keep those photos is also where all of the prom stuff is. And I don’t know if so this is the thing is this does not hit home with current teens at all because this is not how they do prom. But prom in the 90s was a whole thing of a thing. You paid your money. You got your photo album with the theme on the cover. You got your champagne flutes. Why did they give us champagne flutes? It’s not like we could drink at that age, but they did.

Kathi Lipp (03:59)

Absolutely.

Tonya Kubo (04:10)

And we got a key chain, got all these things that matched the theme. And I remember thinking it was so important to have that stuff back then. And now I look at it and I’m like, what am I supposed to do with this? Like all I can think about is we had one year where the theme was from dusk till dawn. And that’s when the Quentin Tarantino movie came out. So every time I look at it, I go, I remember how excited I was to see that movie and how horrible that movie was.

Kathi Lipp (04:36)

Okay, there we go. I love that that’s the memory that pops up for you.

Tonya Kubo (04:38)

So as, right,

why am I still keeping that stuff if that’s the memory that pops up? I’m keeping that stuff because I go, well, when I go to my high school reunion, are other people gonna have it? Are other people gonna talk about keeping it? What does it say about me and my high school years and what I think about all the people I went into prom with if I get rid of this, which is what I really want to do?

Kathi Lipp (05:04)

Yeah, ? really interesting. How about you, Tenneil? Are you a hangar oner or a letter goer?

Tenneil (05:10)

So I’m somewhere in the middle. I’ve become much better letting it go. think transitions of life. I do still have first wedding pictures also because I thought that my child would want them, but he doesn’t. So I’m really close on that one too. Tonya, have to tell you though, let go of the prom stuff. I’ve had my reunion. There was one really great thing that somebody brought from the reunion.

Tonya Kubo (05:23)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:25)

Nope, they

don’t.

Tenneil (05:38)

It was the school handbook for our very conservative parochial school. And that makes for excellent conversation. So if your key chain’s not gonna make for good conversation, let it go.

Tonya Kubo (05:51)

Fair enough.

Kathi Lipp (05:51)

Hmm

really interesting. Yeah, I want to talk about the emotional drivers that sit behind our inability to let things go so Tonya you and I have talked about this for years fear what if I need it someday or the other version of that is what if I regret letting this go and Guilt this was from somebody that was important in my life whether I’m no longer in touch with them or maybe they’ve passed on something like that

And then I think there’s a third one here, identity. Guys, again, I’m bringing up old stories, but I only have one life to live. And so I only have so many stories. But I was a sales rep for years and years and years. And I invested in these leather cases for catalogs. And this was important in my job.

We did not have a laptop to bring around. These were leather cases that we put, you know, the A &A plush and the Carolina candles and all those catalogs in. I would take them into a store and somebody would order something and I’d go home and write up the order. It feels very archaic now. I could not get rid of those leather cases for the longest time because they were expensive. And you know, the year I bought them, I bought them because I was salesperson of the year.

And that was important to me. That meant something to me. And so that was, it was an identity. I didn’t recognize it at the time, but it was an identity thing saying, you know what, because then I went home and I was homeschooling my kids and then I went through a divorce and I was working at a job that wasn’t my favorite. And I could look at those cases and say, okay, but I had it going on

like and maybe I’ll have it going on again. You know, sometimes we keep things not out of love but out of guilt, fear or the need to remember who we were. And I just think it’s so important to really recognize why are we hanging on to things that make no sense. By the way, I no longer have those leather cases. It’s probably been 20 years now. I’m good. But at the time, and I think we all have those things like that.

Tonya Kubo (07:48)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:16)

We have somebody in our life who says or maybe it’s media. You’ll regret getting rid of that You’ll regret it. So One of the things that Tonya and I have talked about a lot in our group Clutter free for life that if you love it show it so if you if you say that you love this purse But you have it in a box in your garage. I question your love

And so I wanna talk about some ways that we can display things. And one of my favorites is I have a friend, Robin Neal, who we’ve been friends for a really long time. And her father-in-law had passed away earlier the year of this story. And he was famous for his chili recipe. And so she had a butcher block inscribed.

with her father-in-law’s handwriting with the chili recipe. And there’s a great picture that went around TikTok. And I think it had something like six million views. It was crazy. It went crazy of her husband opening up this package and seeing that and what it meant to him. But it wasn’t just keeping the recipe and even just framing a recipe could have been cool, but this took it a step beyond. And when we wanna talk about the step beyond

Tonya Kubo (09:24)

wow.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:42)

We come to Tenneil Register. We’d love some ideas for things that maybe they’re not super useful day to day, but can give us some ideas of, I don’t want to get rid of it because it’s important to me. I’ve discovered I’m not keeping out of fear or guilt or false sense of identity. No, it really brings back happy memories and I want it.

Tenneil (10:05)

Yeah, I want to share a recipe idea too, because it’s always such a favorite. And that is at Christmas time, have a small tree in your kitchen and hang the recipe cards for family recipes like this all over the tree. And if you have grandma’s old utensils or something like that, you can hang it on the tree. Then the rest of the year, you can pack that down into a small little tote and you have

Kathi Lipp (10:09)

Yeah.

Tenneil (10:34)

At the time of year that you’re gathering with your family in your kitchen, you can pull out these recipes and these little utensils and do a kitchen tree. It is usually everyone’s favorite idea of how to remember grandma.

Kathi Lipp (10:46)

Okay, I want to spin off on this for just a second because I think we think if we want to put something up it has to be up all year round and I am a very seasonal girl like every spring summer fall winter I’ve got a little tote where I’m pulling things out not just the fall decor. It’s not that it’s the Native American dolls that my friend Susie gave to me that I put in the fall decor. It’s the

Tonya Kubo (10:55)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:14)

picture that my grandmother passed down to me that I have out in the spring. But I don’t have it out year round because my house would be an antique store. But it’s I love the idea of switching things out. Okay, what are some other ideas to Tenneil?

Tenneil (11:30)

Yeah, so another one is make sure you’re using the things you can use. like sometimes, you know, that’s like a vase and we’re afraid to use it because it might get broken or something like that. If like you said, if we love it, use it. But also like maybe you don’t put fresh flowers in vases. I use a lot of like sentimental items. I think you might even be able to see one on the video behind me as bookends. So like a vase from China is

Kathi Lipp (11:36)

Mm.

Yes.

Tenneil (11:59)

holding up as a book in for my actual books that I need to use throughout the day. And so incorporating those so that if it’s functional, then we’re not setting up a museum, right? And that’s what we want to avoid is having a museum of things. We want to have a home that’s been built over time that’s functional. And so I think asking yourself, how can I use it is really, really the most important question if you

Kathi Lipp (12:04)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

? I love that so much. And I think that displaying something, being surrounded by things you love is such a gift to yourself. And it shows the life you have and the hopes and dreams you’ve had. know, Tonya, do you have any ideas that you could share with us on this topic?

Tonya Kubo (12:50)

Well, mean, I second what Tenneil says. It’s like, if you can create something functional out of it, I think that’s brilliant. know, the recipe cards. I knew a woman who had her mom’s recipes all framed in the kitchen. And it was such an easy way to decorate an apartment and make an apartment feel homey. And part of it was that her mom’s handwriting in and of itself was a beautiful decor in addition to the recipes.

And I think, you know, I think we need to give ourselves permission to not be connected to the items. Like it is okay that that meant a lot to you 15 years ago, and it can have meant a lot 15 years ago and not mean as much today. And that doesn’t make you a bad person.

Kathi Lipp (13:31)

Mm hmm. Right.

Mm-hmm.

I love it. Yeah, you know, what I’ve had to discover is that having, using what I can or have it when I can’t use something, but it’s still precious to me. I was just visiting my friend Sherry, our friend Sherry, and she gave me a little framed sunflower. And that was her daughter who had passed away, her favorite flower.

Like there’s no practical use for it, but I’m not getting rid of it because I love it. And so it has yellows in it. So I put it with some blue little vases that I really like. And sometimes the vases have flowers in them and sometimes they don’t, but a little vignette is, a fun thing. And you can, you can make a vignette out of the weirdest stuff. I, I came in second place in a baby contest when, you know,

56 years ago. I’ve got the little trophy. I it means nothing to anybody But I just like having it on display because I’m like what a weird thing and I love it so, know and sometimes we don’t want to use things because We don’t want them to get broken. We don’t want them to get chipped So we keep them away, but when something feels too precious to use or display I think we have to ask ourselves. Am I protecting it or

Tonya Kubo (14:44)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (15:00)

Is it protecting me from dealing with letting it go? Like, am I too afraid to unpack those emotions? And maybe you can’t unpack the emotions right now, but it’s okay. We’re gonna take a quick commercial break and then we’re gonna come back and we’re gonna talk about Tenneil’s favorite subject, repurposing. Okay, so we’re gonna, we’ll be right back. Okay, we are back with Tonya and Tenneil. Tenneil, how do you?

I want you to talk about more ideas for repurposing. Give us some more ideas because you’re such a genius at this. And I want you to give us your weirdest and wackiest ideas.

Tenneil (15:39)

Oh boy. Well, I was going to start with the plain ones, Kathi, , but we’ll start with the plain ones. So your plain ones is right, like a teacup. If you don’t drink tea from it, but it’s grandma’s teacup, can it hold your rings? Can it hold soap? Right? And even like your little sunflower picture, is it something that should be out all the time or should it come out just during the month of May that you get out the tea

Kathi Lipp (15:44)

Go f- start there and then build our way up, yes.

you

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tenneil (16:09)

for the soap, know, like that

Kathi Lipp (16:10)

Yeah.

Tenneil (16:10)

kind of thing, so that you’re going through a process. Wackier ideas is like the things you can hang on the wall. So when you were talking about your leather suitcases, I actually have a bag from my corporate days too that I still love, but I don’t carry it. So it hangs on the coat rack by my front door for like your everyday clutter that you need to hide in a hurry. And it’s just like a hiding place, right? It looks like a bag I carry in and out, but I actually…

don’t, right? And so, grandpa’s, you know, hand rake, if grandpa was a gardener, right, hang that on the wall and use that to hang your necklaces off next to your closet or hang the dog leash on next to the door where you head out, just to turn the object upside down, inside out, spin it round and round until you can find some other form.

Kathi Lipp (16:40)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

?

? I need to be thinking about this. Okay, so I’m gonna throw a couple objects at you. This is our game show. And I want you to tell me, okay, so not only do I have one spoon that is precious to me, I have two. One that we found buried on the property here, and it’s from a company called Rogers Brothers.

and we looked it up, it’s from the 1920s. And then I have one of my grandmother’s serving spoons. Like, what do I do with those?

Tenneil (17:41)

Well, I mean, first of all, are they usable? Like, can you stir your coffee with it? The rogers spoon?

Kathi Lipp (17:46)

just that

they’re giant and I’m worried would I get poisoning from them but maybe that could use them yeah yeah I would need to figure that out yes

Tonya Kubo (17:52)

I was gonna say, this lead poisoning? I don’t know.

Tenneil (17:58)

So a big spoon, one of the ideas we’ve done in the store and people usually love because they usually have one like an old spoon or ladle or something. If you’re able to hang it on the wall and it makes a cup, you can put like a little plant or succulent or something like that. Or you could have your kitchen keys, your keys or whatever, if you need it to be functional.

Kathi Lipp (18:09)

Mm-hmm.

I love that idea. And I love the idea what you were talking about the rake where you could put a dog leash or something like that. I love that idea. Okay, I’m trying to think. I have lots of cards that people have sent me and I get rid of most of them. But what’s an idea for the ones that you want to keep?

Tenneil (18:39)

Yeah, this one’s not overly creative, but it looks a little better than a bulletin board. I have a screen in my office. It’s like a wood frame that’s a screen. It’s industrial off the farm. And I have clothes pins on it where I can rotate out cards or inspirational sayings. I’ve got a couple of pictures of my grandparents. Just my own kind of teenager pin board in my office. But to keep up with looking bulletin board, it’s actually like an industrial primitive screen.

Kathi Lipp (18:43)

I’ll take it.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Tenneil (19:09)

you could do it with an old window screen too.

Kathi Lipp (19:09)

?

okay, I love that. Tonya, I’m gonna ask you for one in just a second. But, Tenneil, another thing I would be interesting to get some ideas from, if you have somebody in your family, they wore a uniform, you know, like I’m thinking like, you know, firefighter, police officer, they have a badge, they have a hat, like, what are your ideas for that?

Tenneil (19:34)

Yeah, so some people go full out, right? Like shadow box on the wall, it’s that important. You mentioned last time we were talking about kids, like sometimes it works to get it out seasonally, you know, for that moment of memorial. But I think it’s kind of choosing an item from it, right? The hat, can it be worked into your mantle decor, that kind of thing? Or like I think of a fireman’s jacket. I could see some semblance to leaving that on your coat rack next to the door.

Kathi Lipp (19:46)

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Right.

Tenneil (20:04)

just there as a statement kind of thing.

Kathi Lipp (20:07)

Yeah,

and guys don’t be afraid to look at something like Etsy if you’re not the crafty person because they can take grandma’s china that was broken and turn that into a necklace or something along those lines Tonya jump in here play the game. What’s something that you would throw it to Tenneil?

Tonya Kubo (20:26)

Something that I would throw at Tenneil, baby teeth.

Tenneil (20:29)

yeah.

Okay. I’m going to say first of all that I’m pro getting rid of the baby teeth. And I believe there should be a tradition when the truth comes out about the tooth fairy that we give those babies back and the kid can decide like, we want to bury them or what do we want to do?

one for you all that is still a thing in our house and that is a first pacifier. I think at 17 my kids still finds a little joy from knowing it’s in the top drawer of my jewelry.

Kathi Lipp (21:07)

Oh my gosh. You guys, anything that somebody has sucked on? I don’t know. I don’t know.

Tonya Kubo (21:15)

I didn’t

have a pacifier, my children never had pacifiers, so I have no pacifiers in my home.

Kathi Lipp (21:19)

? my-

Okay, we went to the hospital in the middle of the night to get Justin his pacifier that he was going to die without apparently. Like, because he didn’t know the difference between, you know, not having a pacifier and me dumping him off at the orphanage. Like they were on the same plane. Okay. Yeah, I love the idea of like,

Tonya Kubo (21:32)

?

Mm-hmm.

Tenneil (21:41)

Thank

Kathi Lipp (21:48)

burying the teeth for the tooth fairy to recycle or something. I love that idea. Guys, I love this so much because our memories shouldn’t live in an attic, they should be in our lives. They should be incorporated into our lives. And Tenneil is so good at this. Tenneil, would love, you you said at the store, what people may not know is you own a beautiful store. What’s it called?

Tenneil (21:52)

Right?

Yeah, R7 reclaimed and it’s a vintage barn and so we specialize in how to recycle and, you know, reclaim the unexpected.

Kathi Lipp (22:17)

Yeah.

Yeah, okay at some point what I’m gonna do if you’re a listener and you’re like I have this weird item that I would like to know how to incorporate I’m gonna book another show and what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna bring these ladies back and We’re gonna come up with those weird items. I’m gonna read them off. I’m not gonna give to Tenneil any prep Because she is so creative. She is seen and done everything No

Tonya Kubo (22:45)

Ooh.

Tenneil (22:49)

Are you gonna save me at all?

Tonya Kubo (22:53)

I will prep, I will do homework for you, Tenneil, because I’m the person who threw baby teeth at you, okay?

Kathi Lipp (22:59)

Yeah

my goodness, I love this so much. Okay, guys, just remember, you deserve to enjoy your sentimental items, not be overwhelmed by them. Okay, thank you ladies so much for being here. Guys, we’re gonna be back in just a moment with my new favorite segment, Stuff That Has Earned A Place In My House. We will be right back.

PART 2

Kathi Lipp (00:00)

Well, welcome back to ClutterFree Academy. ?

Today in our third segment is another episode of things that have earned a place in my clutter free home. And I’ve got my friend, Tenneil Register. Tenneil’s part of my team, but also my friend. And if you need your house redecorated, just invite her over and let her sit amongst your house and she will not be able to help herself. That’s just the kind, but she’ll only do it with your permission. Hey Tenneil.

Tenneil (00:27)

Yeah.

such

an accurate version of me. I’ll be switching, but I’ll wait for permission.

Kathi Lipp (00:36)

Well

You were you were not rooted at all. I’m like, please please please because here’s the thing I think other people can sometimes see things that you know, you just live with all the time, right? And you think you don’t think about things being in a different way and we were literally moving dressers upstairs from downstairs and You know when I bought this house man, you know things were where they were and I changed a ton of stuff

but some of the stuff I left just where it was because I thought it was cute. But then your house moves and things like that and you just have to figure out new solutions. And that’s one of the things we’re gonna talk about today is figuring out new solutions. there’s very little that I get to influence Tenneil about, but I influenced you and that makes me very happy. And it was so funny. I’ll tell you this Tenneil and then we’ll actually talk about the item.

You know Roger and I were going to a church and we have since left this church so I’m not telling any tales out of school but ? one of the pastors did a whole sermon on like the worst thing that your child could grow up to be is an influencer and I’m like well, okay, first of all, thanks ? But I also think isn’t that what everybody does? We’re trying if you’re a politician, you’re an influencer if you’re on TV, you’re an

Like we’re all influenced and I want to influence people one to not buy things that they don’t need but two if something works for me I want to share about it because it’s made my life better, right?

Tenneil (02:16)

Yes, and for most of us, at least listening to this podcast in America, we’re probably gonna spend our money on something. So if it’s something that makes your life easier and makes you happy, I love when people share what’s working for them. It just gives me new ideas.

Kathi Lipp (02:29)

Right. And that’s the thing. I don’t want to spend my money on stuff that doesn’t work. And so, so let me tell you how I influenced Tenneil. Now, some of you have listened to the podcast where I was talking about organizing your pots and pans and ? Tenneil I, the day that podcast came out, she’s like, I’m getting that pan organizer. And okay, so I’m going to tell you my experience with it. then

Tenneil (02:34)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (02:55)

I want to hear yours. And I don’t know what her experience is. I just told her, Hey, we’re recording this episode. I’ll find out if you liked it or not. But I’m going to tell you what my experience was. my, have a corner cabinet in the kitchen and pots and pans. They were such a pain that my husband who everybody I know, you know, I, everybody knows I, I, I don’t worship him. only worship God, but

Tenneil (03:24)

Admire.

Kathi Lipp (03:25)

I admire greatly, but it got to the point where he was setting out to dry the pots and pans on a pretty regular basis because there’s such a pain in the rear to put away. And so he also, he still does this with our, our, ? not Tupperware. I can you tell I’m a child of the eighties. I call it Tupperware, but, yeah, he doesn’t like that either, but that’s very easy to put away. So I bought,

this it’s called ? Muddella eight tier heavy duty adjustable pan organizing rack for kitchen cabinet storage and organization. So I mean, that is a mouthful. But what it does is it’s so you don’t put your pans or your pots inside of each other. They’re each on their own level. And I have to say the amount of people who now put away their pots and pans in my household.

or even people who are visiting ? without being harangued has gone up 100%. Including me, by the way, including me, because I used to avoid it too. Okay, so now I don’t know, this is honest reaction, not that we’re gonna ever lie to you guys, but ? Tenneil, what is your unbiased reaction about this pot and pan organizer?

Tenneil (04:49)

I love it. So I was so excited because our pot in pan one, I’m like the only one who can do it correctly, right?

Kathi Lipp (04:55)

Yes,

nobody can do it like mom does it.

Tenneil (05:00)

And similarly, we tend to leave them out like on the stove kind of ready to reuse because it’s irritating and we cook a lot. So I was super excited about this pot and pan holder and I ordered it and it was super late at night when it was delivered from Amazon. Everyone was like, who’s at the door? And so I start putting it together. So it was a whole family activity of watching me, you know, put this together. Me explaining that I’d ordered it off the podcast. I just, I don’t usually do that kind of

Kathi Lipp (05:04)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tenneil (05:29)

And so they were super intrigued. The guys in my house were really impressed with the design. And I got down on the floor to put it in my cabinet and it didn’t fit because I didn’t measure first. And I was like so bummed. But I was like, this thing though, it makes sense. This thing makes sense. And so I scooted my little rear over to the next cabinet, to my corner cabinet, where I also have like

Kathi Lipp (05:30)

Yeah, yeah.

Ooh!

? no.

Yes.

Yeah.

Tenneil (05:57)

piles of things, but they’re a little bit different. They’re like containers that I take cookies in, deviled eggs, tray, strainers stuff like that. And it worked brilliantly in there to stack all that stuff up and each have its own, it’s almost like a slot, its own shelf, right? And I ordered a second one to do under there. And then ? we’re still gonna order another one. We can make it fit our pan cabinet, but our pan cabinet has a

Kathi Lipp (05:58)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

Yes, right.

Tenneil (06:26)

like a top shelf in it, half shelf.

Kathi Lipp (06:29)

That’s mine does too. Yes.

Tenneil (06:30)

And so you

need to remove that for this to really do its job, which is okay. I would prefer it be gone in this baby work.

Kathi Lipp (06:38)

Yes.

So for some reason, this works with my half shelf. It just, mean, yeah, it’s a little, it loses a little space. But what I’ve done is I’ve put my turkey roasting pan behind that, which I only need to get to once a year. And I only need to get to it when my 30 year olds are in the house and one of them can do the crawling. So I’m fine with that. So yeah. So, ? okay. I, I’ve never given, you know, a

a ranking on this portion of the podcast. But for me, this is a 10 out of 10. It solves a huge problem. It isn’t crazy expensive. It’s not cheap, but I also don’t want cheap because I want this to last for a long time. It’s $31 and ? I just got it off of Amazon. We will put the link in the notes ? and you don’t have to give it a 10 out of 10, but what is your ranking for it?

Tenneil (07:32)

Yeah, for sure for what it did for me, I would give it a 9 out of 10 for the space that it fixed for me and I’d give it a 10 out of 10 if it measured correctly, but that’s on me, not on the product, right?

Kathi Lipp (07:37)

Yeah.

Okay,

but you know what this is really good to know that you should take that extra three minutes and Measure that space and guys, you know, I’ve talked about how I’ve ordered and I’ll put a link to these two I’ve ordered ? Those a dozen of the tiny measuring tape. So I have one in every room of the house because I That saves me a trip into town to return something

Tenneil (07:49)

Yeah!

Kathi Lipp (08:08)

And yeah, so many times I wish it worked better on clothes because like I still end up returning clothes because I don’t know what size I am anymore. But for things in your house, it’s always good to just take that extra second to measure. I bet nine times out of 10 Tenneil, you can eyeball stuff. I bet you.

Tenneil (08:29)

Yeah,

and when it comes to like furniture and other spaces, I pretty well have nailed that and I measure a lot of stuff. I just didn’t think through. I was so excited about it on the podcast. So, yeah.

Kathi Lipp (08:33)

Go.

No, of course not. Yeah, exactly.

Okay, friends. So this is called the Mudella eight tier heavy duty adjustable pan organizer rack for kitchen cabinet storage and organization. And so ? I, like I said, love this thing. If you are struggling with what to do with your pots and pans, this is worth trying. As you know, Amazon, you can always return things.

But yeah, this works for us. And I noticed like it’s saying free delivery today, 5 to 10 PM. Yeah, and here’s the thing guys, it doesn’t do free delivery to my house. It does free delivery to my mom’s house. But if I really needed it, we could do it. So I’ve ordered the second one.

Tenneil (09:19)

No.

Kathi Lipp (09:26)

And yeah, we’re gonna be so organized. It’s gonna make cooking a dream. I’m so excited. Tenneil thanks for sharing my love of pot and pan organization. It makes me super happy.

Tenneil (09:37)

Yes, it’s the little things.

Kathi Lipp (09:39)

It’s the little things, that’s true. Anytime you can remove an obstacle from something you have to do is huge. Well friends, you have been listening to ClutterFree Academy, I’m Kathi Lipp, now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#674 – Low Buy July: 31 Days to Your Financial Reset

Jun 17, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Freedom, Low Buy July, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo talk about why they're moving from “No Buy July” to a gentler, grace-filled “Low Buy July.” If you’ve ever felt like buying toilet paper broke the rules or you’re just exhausted by all-or-nothing...

#673 – The Dishwasher Dilemma: Secrets to a Clutter-Free Kitchen

Jun 10, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Kitchen, Organizing, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this engaging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive into the dynamic world of dishwashing, sharing secrets to establish a daily rhythm that keeps kitchen chaos at bay. Listen in as Kathi reveals her tried-and-true methods for...

#672 – From Pantry to Plate: The Secret to Smart Food Storage

Jun 3, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Foodie Friday, Home, Kitchen, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo in this episode of Clutter-Free Academy as they tackle the often overwhelming world of food storage. Whether you’re struggling with long-term pantry organization, fridge chaos, containers for on the go or finding the right containers for...

#669 – From Macaroni Necklaces to Masterpieces: A Guide to Decluttering and Organizing Kid Memorabilia

by Clutter Free Academy Team | May 13, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Podcast, tips and ideas | 0 comments

#669 – From Macaroni Necklaces to Masterpieces: A Guide to Decluttering and Organizing Kid Memorabilia

Listen Now

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp teams up with decluttering experts Tonya Kubo and Tenille Register to tackle one of the toughest challenges for parents—letting go of kids’ sentimental items. Whether it’s a macaroni necklace or a monumental art project, sentimental clutter can be overwhelming. This trio of brilliant ladies share personal stories and practical strategies for managing this emotional baggage. Learn how to curate your children’s treasures thoughtfully and set healthy boundaries with blended families’ keepsakes. Plus, discover special tools like the School Year’s Memory Kit! Tune in for relatable advice and humor-infused wisdom to clear cluttered spaces without guilt. As an added bonus, Kathi introduces us to her new segment: “Things That Have Earned A Place in My Clutter Free Home” where she chats with Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young about her new bible study on the book of Ruth!

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

School Years Memory Kit (use the code CLUTTERFREE10 for a discount!)
Redeemer: God’s Loving Kindness in the Book of Ruth (study by Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young!)

FYI: Some product links may be affiliate links. If you buy, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support!

Clutter Free Resources:

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Meet Our Co-Host

Tenneil Register

Tenneil Register can be found creating, repurposing, decorating, gardening and welcoming guests to their reclaimed barn storefront. She and her husband, Cowboy, established rural roots for their blended family of 7 in their DIY ranch home in Iowa. Connect with her on Instagram for practical ideas to reclaim your home.

Meet Our Guest

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young is an author, speaker, Bible teacher, and spoken word artist.

Her passion is helping people discover God’s glory in unexpected places and flourish in their God-given callings. She wants you to become a glory chaser with her, running after God’s glory rather than your own. This has made a world of difference in every facet of Dorina’s life.

Her happy place is near the ocean with her people or running on a trail in the mountains near her home. A foodie, Dorina loves trying new recipes and restaurants. Tears, laughter, and good food are always welcome at her table. Guests are invited to come as they are.

Dorina’s Website

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:10)

Hey friends, welcome to clutter free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life and I am here with the queen of decluttering Tonya Kubo and The queen of making things cute. I Tonya. I’m sorry. That does not feel fair like Okay, okay Yeah, you know, I I mean because if I had to choose one, I’m not gonna lie

Tonya Kubo (00:30)

It’s totally fair. It’s totally fair. I own it. I own my role.

Kathi Lipp (00:39)

Making things cute Feels like a bigger superpower But hey, we know why our people are here and they are here to be able to declutter But we’re gonna have some purpose with our declutter So it’s Tonya Kubo and Tenille Register and I I am going to start with the softest of softball questions for you Tenille how many kids do you have?

Tenneil (01:04)

Five? Not a small question for me.

Kathi Lipp (01:05)

Okay, Tonya. well,

Tonya Kubo (01:09)

was gonna say!

Kathi Lipp (01:11)

you know what? And here’s the thing, depending on who’s asking the question, it could mean two different things because people will ask Roger often how many kids he has and he says two. And it’s like, he goes, ? wait, no, I have four. And like, because blended families, right? So you have a blended family, I have a blended family. What are their ages, Tenille?

Tonya Kubo (01:17)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:35)

That’s the hard question.

Tenneil (01:36)

They are 17 to 28, so in some ways we like to pretend we have none now.

Kathi Lipp (01:42)

Right, exactly. Okay, and Tonya, how many kids? Okay. Okay, so for the purposes of this, I’m calling it a teen and a tween. Does that feel accurate? Okay, good, good, good. Okay, because what we are talking about today is kids’ sentimental items. Tonya, you’ve been leading our Clutterfree Bible study, and how big of a deal are sentimental items in

Tonya Kubo (01:46)

Two, 10 and 15.

It works for me. Totally feels accurate.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:11)

that Bible study. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (02:13)

Huge, huge.

mean, honestly, it’s because the emotions are so intertwined with the things. Like a candle is not just a candle. It’s a whole relationship.

Kathi Lipp (02:24)

Right.

Yeah. Can I tell you the most interesting thing that you guys know, I’ve been on the show, Dr. Nurse Mama, which is a nationally syndicated show. And they’ve had me come back in 2025 once a month to be on the program. And we were talking about Dr. Jessica’s, she has a stuff problem. Her husband does not have a stuff problem.

Tonya Kubo (02:34)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:52)

but they have a stuff problem together. And she said, and we were talking about why it’s hard for her to let go of her adult kids stuff and her kids are still living there. She goes, when I see all of the stuff, it proves to me I was a good mom. And I’m like, that is deep, right?

Tonya Kubo (02:54)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

That

is deep and I’ve never heard anybody say that before.

Kathi Lipp (03:19)

It’s so honest though. If you can look at your kids’ trophies and you say, was there for every practice, or you see, let’s be honest, in my kids’ cases, their participation certificates, okay? Because we were not a trophy family, but we were a, you know what, we were behind the scenes, we did all the things. But you showed up for all of that. And I know that there are a lot of parents who don’t feel

Tonya Kubo (03:21)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Hahaha!

Kathi Lipp (03:46)

super confident in their parenting because what works for one kid doesn’t work for another. But you can say, hey, look at this. I really tried. I really tried. And when Roger and I got married and we moved in together, we realized we both had a kid stuff problem because, you know, he wanted to be a good dad. I wanted to be a good mom. And I was drowning in all of the stuff.

Tonya Kubo (03:51)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (04:14)

And Tenille, I don’t know if this resonates with you at all, but I didn’t feel like I could get rid of any of my stepkids stuff. Like I would just, I would be a wicked stepmom. That like would be the official sticker that would be on my shirt. Does that resonate?

Tenneil (04:31)

Absolutely. Not only can you not get rid of it, but you probably didn’t form their thinking about stuff. And so like with my bio kid, we had these like little seasonal habits of decluttering some things and reviewing the wardrobe and I didn’t have that process. And so that means their stuff just like stays forever even after it doesn’t fit or how do I establish that with them?

Kathi Lipp (04:38)

Yeah.

Right.

Right and I remember going through stuff and trying to have conversations and I’m like Roger I just need you to be the bio parent we we had two different roles We had the bio parent or the parent in charge So like if I left the house, I would say hey Kimber Roger’s the parent in charge if you need something talk to him

And then bioparent, when it was emotional stuff, when it was the slamming the doors, I hate my life, that went to the bioparent. And Tonya, you are past the macaroni necklace stage, but you’re in the teen stage that brings a different kind of sentimental chaos. What are your kids bringing into the house right now?

Tonya Kubo (05:39)

Well, part of our challenge is different kids, different personalities. So for Lily, Lily has very few items, but everything she has is very, very precious. So the few things she has, she values a lot. Abby has a lot of stuff that is precious. And Abby is in an art phase. So I’ve got canvases and paintings and quite honestly paint everywhere in my house.

Kathi Lipp (05:43)

Mm-hmm.

Okay, now.

This

Okay.

you

Tonya Kubo (06:09)

and she wants it all displayed and she you know she wants to visit her artwork that she has given me regularly. It’s a thing.

Kathi Lipp (06:20)

Can we just say Abby is an intense human being? Yes.

Tonya Kubo (06:24)

She is, and she

is, she’s a big personality and she has so much joy. And also there is just a lot that goes on with the whirlwind that she is.

Kathi Lipp (06:28)

guess.

Yes. Okay. So I’m going to tell you guys one thing that helped me, but then I want to hear a lot of your different ideas. And when it, when we blended our families and we had this overabundance of stuff and we had, we had a lot of cardboard boxes, like the bankers boxes of art and stuff. And it wasn’t precious enough to be in their room, but it was too precious to get rid of. And so.

Tonya Kubo (06:51)

Mm.

you

Kathi Lipp (07:04)

I finally, we lived in a 1300 square foot townhouse. There was not enough room for that much precious. So finally I got it down, we did a one tub rule. Now I started this earlier with my kids where we had a tub and of course kindergarten, everything that came home was, this, I’m gonna frame this, we’re going to have a gallery wall. Everything was precious. And then you get to about fourth grade and you’re like, why do they send all this stuff home?

And it’s like, because the teachers don’t want that stuff. I get it. I get it now. I feel deeply for teacher. Tenneil’s a teacher. She gets it.

Tenneil (07:36)

you

They’re proving they’re good teacher just like we’re proving we’re a good mom.

Kathi Lipp (07:43)

That’s

right. my goodness. You are so correct the more stuff that comes home the more of a good teacher thing that’s deep insight. I love that Deep insight so we did a one-tub rule like we’ll keep one tub in the garage But then you have to decide what is precious and what is not precious And then we also had to have the when they move out. We finally Tonya knows this story

Tonya Kubo (07:48)

Mm-hmm.

Deep, deep.

Kathi Lipp (08:12)

I think it was July 30th one year. I said, if your stuff is not out of our garage, and by the way, we gave them like six weeks, but if you’re, they were in there, they were firmly in their twenties, not living at our house. And so Jeremy showed up at our house at 1130, the day of to get what he wanted. And I’m like, guys, I’ll,

Tonya Kubo (08:21)

And how old were they, Kathi? You have to include their ages.

Tenneil (08:35)

haha

Kathi Lipp (08:37)

This is the last time I’ll be happy to throw things away for you. I’ll be happy to recycle all those, but I cannot deal with this stuff anymore unless you want to start paying rent for your stuff. Well, that cleared it up real fast. So that one tub was super helpful. Tonya, how do you keep track of what is Abby’s and what is Lily’s?

Tonya Kubo (08:51)

Mm-hmm.

So I have a rainbow organizer and they get assigned colors. So there’s the drawers and I know, you know, this pink drawer is for Abby and the blue drawer is for Lily. And like, I love the one tub rule. That’s a good one. What we started early on is because when Lily was in kindergarten, because you’re right, it’s like, that’s when the stuff starts really coming in. In preschool, we didn’t get stuff all the time.

Kathi Lipp (09:06)

Mmm.

Tonya Kubo (09:28)

They would just give us like a packet during conference. And by the way, parent teacher conference for a three year old. That just blew my mind. I was not prepared for that.

Kathi Lipp (09:30)

Hmm.

There are lots of parents who they live or die by that conference.

Tonya Kubo (09:41)

Right, so we would have a conference twice a year. They would hand me a stack of stuff. So that felt very easy to manage compared to kindergarten when it’s all coming home every Friday. And at that time, the house we lived in, I just had a drawer for Lily in the laundry room and I would just shove everything in the drawer and then once a month go through it and decide what to keep.

Kathi Lipp (10:00)

Okay.

Nice. Yeah. I think that one of the things that we have to figure out is curation with our kids, right? Because they get to determine what is important, what is it. Tenille, do you have any tips for that?

Tonya Kubo (10:10)

Mm-hmm.

Tenneil (10:18)

Yes, I love the one tub kind of sets you up for that mindset. And I remember to Tonya that big packet from preschool appreciating it. And I would say, what is your favorite one and why, and then pick that one to hold on to. So I started with my bio kid at a very young age saying like, let’s pick our favorite thing that we want to remember and then have something really special that happens with that one.

Tonya Kubo (10:26)

Mm-hmm.

Tenneil (10:46)

So you’ve probably seen online like having a frame on the wall for each kid and you can rotate which one’s up front. As my number of kids multiplied, the idea of going over and changing the photo on the wall like was not happening, right? And so what I did is I put up, if you picture like a laundry rope, right? Like you were getting your clothes out to dry with little clips there.

Tonya Kubo (11:10)

Mm-hmm.

Tenneil (11:14)

and then they could switch out their art on their little segment. And for those who really loved art, they had one of those in their room that they could be in charge. And then I had one in the hallway that I could put their little prize picture on. So that was a great one for us. And then as we got into the digital world, I started saying, like, hey, tell me about it. And I would just video record them with their art and their little story behind it.

Kathi Lipp (11:15)

Yeah.

Tenneil (11:45)

And then I have that to put on their graduation video instead of this big stack of stuff. So by the time we got to kid number five who’s graduating in May, I have one basket of school artifacts. That’s it. And I’m really excited about that because I inherited from my parents like a dozen boxes. They kept all of it and it created stress for me as an adult. how many objects from those boxes

Tonya Kubo (11:57)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (12:00)

Nice.

Right.

Tenneil (12:14)

my five kids want.

Kathi Lipp (12:16)

How many? Yep, exactly.

Tenneil (12:18)

Zero, you guys. Zero.

Tonya Kubo (12:20)

Mm-hmm.

Tenneil (12:20)

There’s not one object from that box from all five kids that they’re interested in.

Kathi Lipp (12:26)

Yeah, it’s so true. You know, we have to understand these kids live lighter than the our generations before us. And, know, you mentioned the clothes line. One thing. So Kimberly’s first Christmas outfit, it was a little red and green checked dress and pantaloons. She’s never going to want that. You know, that’s not her thing. But what I did was I put it on a piece of rope with some clips and I pull that out every Christmas.

Tonya Kubo (12:31)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:55)

and I use it as a decoration and I just love it and she has no interest but she’s like, yeah, I wore that. But for me, it was like, ? my god, my mom made it, it has a little bit, the whole thing. So I did wanna mention Tonya has a relationship with this company that produces school years memory kits. Tonya, can you just tell us a little bit about them?

Tonya Kubo (13:00)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, well, it’s like perfect alignment with this one tub rule. And so the the owner, it’s owned by a husband and wife company, and they have an app that works for baby books. But what I love about the school year’s memory kit is it’s simple. It’s a box about and you can buy the box or not buy the box totally up to you. But it’s a box that’s about a foot wide, about 18 inches deep, and a little less than a foot tall.

So just think it’s like one nice sized tub fits in most closets. And it comes with 11 by 14 file folders. And it’s one folder for each grade, preschool all the way up to 12th grade. And it’s printed on the outside. And this is what I love about it. I mean, it’s one of those things, you could totally DIY this yourself. I’m just not crafty like Tenille, so I have to buy the craftiness.

But it’s printed so you can put their school, their teacher, and then what do they wanna be when they grow up? Who are their closest friends? What are they really good at? Paste a picture on the front, and then in that folder, you just put all the mementos from that school year.

Kathi Lipp (14:29)

I love it. And if you’ve been meaning to do something like that for seven years, buy the kit if you can. But if you can DIY it, that’s great. I know that Tenille would come up with cute fonts and everything. So we’ll have a link to that in our show notes. And we have a 10 % off because every little bit helps. love a mom and pop store. So the code is clutterfree10. And so we’ve got that for you.

Tonya Kubo (14:45)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:58)

Guys, we’re gonna take a quick commercial break and then we’re gonna be back and we’re gonna talk about when it’s time to transfer ownership. I cannot wait.

Okay guys, we are back. Okay, at some point some of this stuff needs to leave the house. Here’s the deal, if you, but here’s what I had to learn and it’s very hard for me. I’m not gonna lie. If you hand it over, it’s theirs and you no longer get a say about what they do with it. If they light it on fire, that’s okay because it’s theirs. I think that strikes people very differently.

Because I do have a relative who tries to give me stuff and then checks up on it at my house. And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. If it’s important to you, please keep it. But if you’re giving it to me, I get to decide what happens to it. And that’s a really hard, I don’t know. It feels very guilt inducing. And so here’s my question. Tonya, have you talked about this at all with your kids about like,

Tonya Kubo (15:59)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:05)

What will happen when they I I know you are it feels like a lifetime from now But have you had any conversations about what happens with their stuff?

Tonya Kubo (16:09)

Mm-hmm.

like what happens with their stuff later? No, because I don’t know that they ever will leave, honestly. mean, like Lily would have her own apartment right now. She would, but it would just be like her and her bed and a cat and nothing else. She would just wear the same thing every day that she thrifted, right? Because she’s the big thrifty person. But all…

Kathi Lipp (16:17)

Yeah, when they move out.

Ha

You’re right.

Right. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (16:39)

ever really talk about is just like what do we have space for right now because those girls share a room.

Kathi Lipp (16:43)

Yeah,

yeah, it’s so true.

Tonya Kubo (16:47)

So our

big conversation in the house right now is books. It’s like going to Abby going, you’re 10, you’re reading chapter books. I think we can get rid of the picture books now.

Kathi Lipp (16:57)

Mm, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (16:59)

And I will give you a little tip on what we’re doing. And Kathi you know that this is big for me. Listeners know that this is big for me. I agreed to a yard sale.

Because Abby is my collector, so we agreed to a yard sale and they get to split the money. Whatever we make, they’re gonna split it in half. And so Abby is very gung-ho about getting rid of those toys and the clothes and everything that she has outgrown. And we’re not having to fight about it. It’s beautiful.

Kathi Lipp (17:13)

Yeah.

Okay?

Yes!

Ooh,

ooh, could they still get like $1 if they give, if something’s given away for free? I’m just, thinking about you, Tonya. I’m thinking about you.

Tonya Kubo (17:38)

Right,

well, so the thing is, is they get half of even the stuff we’re putting out for sale. Like I am done pretending, so I’ve lived in this house since 2018, I am done pretending I’m gonna put the stuff on the walls that was on the walls at the last house. I keep thinking it’s gonna happen, it’s not gonna happen. The stuff’s gonna go to a different home. So we’re getting rid of a bunch of home decor stuff and they get to keep that too.

Kathi Lipp (17:43)

Okay, okay.

Yeah, yeah, it’s not gonna happen.

Yeah.

It makes the transition to adulthood so much easier if there’s not all that stuff. Tenille, how about in your house? How did that all work out for you? Or is it still?

Tonya Kubo (18:06)

Yeah.

Tenneil (18:09)

Yeah, so it’s something,

I love that we’re having this conversation, right? Because it’s something you don’t think about when your kids are growing up until that first one’s gone and you kind of like need the space and you’re not sure how to handle it, right? And so for me, it was, I’m going to keep this one chest of things for you because I know that you live in transition in a small space. And so I will keep this one box for you. And then there was a separate category of stuff. That’s like a bigger like,

Kathi Lipp (18:20)

Right. Mm-hmm.

Tenneil (18:39)

heirloom piece of furniture, right? Like a really nice dresser, like I love it better than my dresser. Am I willing, how long am I willing to hold on to that one, right? So for me, the valuable things like that, I said, I will hold on to until you own your own home. And that’s undated, right? 25 or 45 until you own your own home. Because I don’t want to pressure them into settling down if they’re content with like a little bit more nomad. But all the

Kathi Lipp (18:49)

Hmm.

Mm, okay. Yeah.

Tenneil (19:09)

stuff is like a one box rule and even that is like as they’re all getting older I need to adjust one more time and so I recently came across an idea and did it with my oldest daughter who’s not in her own home but she is in like she doesn’t own it but she’s there and she’s settling in and I did a kit for her house and I combined it with like new items that I knew she wanted to have right like some new kitchen linens and some things like that

one or two pieces of childhood that I knew she could put directly like onto her wall or on her bathroom counter and she would want and I said she was so excited to have them and I said Everything else it’s out there. Do you want me to just get rid of it? And she was like absolutely Right. I did the think work for her and that’s what she needed. So I think you have to play it kid by kid, but I

Kathi Lipp (19:57)

good.

Yeah.

Right.

Tenneil (20:05)

I definitely think you setting the boundary of how much you’re willing to hold on to and then partnering with their personality to navigate it is really great.

Kathi Lipp (20:15)

Tonya, what were you going to say? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (20:17)

Question so

because this comes up in clutter free Academy a lot what happens if they never buy a home?

Tenneil (20:26)

Yeah, so for me at that point, I would say like, do you want me to sell it and you can have the money or are you giving it to me? Right? Because my daughter’s sister, she would give it to me. I would use that dresser, right?

Tonya Kubo (20:35)

Yeah!

Kathi Lipp (20:38)

Right?

Tonya Kubo (20:39)

curious, at what age? Cause like we’ve got members that I have been walking this path with and one of them, it’s like the kid is 40. And she was like, and I didn’t realize this for a long time. I thought we were talking about 20 somethings, but it’s like, okay, well, if at 40, they don’t live in a home that can accommodate the big China cabinet or whatever it is, I think we have to make peace with the fact that they may not.

and come up with an alternative plan.

Tenneil (21:10)

And I should put a clarifier on it. Like this is only on furniture that I have a space and a use for in my home. This is a dresser that is in my guest room that she comes home to and it serves a purpose in our home. If that was in my living room or in my way or did not fit, then I, like Kathi, would put that expiration date on there. I might even offer like, you can pay for storage for it, right? Like I have a vehicle.

Tonya Kubo (21:17)

Mm-hmm. Mm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, okay.

Kathi Lipp (21:37)

Yeah.

Tenneil (21:39)

from my father that I pay storage on because someday I’m going to fix it up. That’s my choice, right? But nobody else is responsible for my hoarding that.

Tonya Kubo (21:39)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:48)

Right. Okay. I love all this you guys and you know, we’re we’re coming to the end here. Tenille, I would love just a couple of creative ideas from you of things for our kids, whether they are littles or they are grown adults. But you know, those things that we don’t want to get rid of, but they don’t necessarily have a purpose is do you have a couple of ideas for us?

Tenneil (22:17)

I do. So one of them is the box of like little trinkets is to have like a glass jar, right? You have their like matchbox or you know, their favorite little makeup purse or these little things. Create a glass jar. It’s got your movie tickets and your concert tickets from high school and let that just be a decorative jar that you give them as a Christmas gift. And they have that in their house and you’ve gone through and

Kathi Lipp (22:40)

?

Tenneil (22:44)

you’ve decluttered it and you’ve got these little objects. So I think that’s a super fun one. And it’s something that when you walk by it and you kind of see your first little magic matchbox car or your little things, it’s kind of fun collected memory. Another one, I think another great one is to take that like first piece of artwork and have it put up onto a canvas. You can do that so inexpensively now, like just through Walgreens photo or whatever.

Kathi Lipp (22:56)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (22:59)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (22:59)

I love that.

Tenneil (23:12)

for art for their apartment or their bathroom or something like that. I think that’s also like give a couple of meaningful pieces and let the rest.

Kathi Lipp (23:15)

Hmm.

Tonya Kubo (23:20)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (23:21)

It’s so much about the presentation, isn’t it? The curation and presentation. I’m not giving you every Sunday school paper that you scribbled on, but I understand that this was an important time in your life. Like, you know, I kept the pictures of Thomas the Tank Engine that were so important to my son.

Tonya Kubo (23:27)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (23:41)

But the where he was scribbled on Jesus, we didn’t keep those necessarily. But it’s okay. He loves Jesus in his heart. And so I think just recognizing that curation makes things more precious. It makes them be things that we care about and that we love. And then we say, even if you don’t remember this, this was important to you.

And here’s the story that goes with it. And I think that that is such a great encouragement. And it gives them context for their lives, which I absolutely love. So I’m just gonna encourage you listener, start small, one box, one folder, one school year. It’s not about getting it all done today. It’s about making intentional choices. Okay, hang out with us for just another moment.

We have a new segment I’m so excited about Stuff that has earned a place in my house and I’m gonna share some really fun and exciting Things that you might want to consider bringing into your house as well

SECOND AD BREAK HERE

Kathi Lipp (00:01)

Well, hey friends, welcome back and we are starting a new series here on the podcast, Clutterfree Academy. I tell you all the time to get stuff out of your home.

Get it out, you don’t need it. You don’t need those birthday napkins from six years ago. You don’t need the Dora the Explorer backpack that you’ve been hanging on to for just the right child. But I wanna tell you some of the things that have earned a place in my home. And sometimes it’s gonna be something that I found at the store. Sometimes it’s gonna be a book and today it’s actually gonna be a Bible study.

I am I’m just gonna admit it up front you guys. This is one of my friends I love her so much her name is Dorina Lazo Gilmore Young and She has a Bible study. It’s called Redeemer God’s Loving-Kindness in the Book of Ruth and Let me just tell you I’ve been obsessed with the book of Ruth ever since I started Like reading the Bible and so I am so excited to talk to her today Dorina welcome back to the podcast

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young (01:24)

Thanks, Kathi. I always feel so welcome at your table. So thanks for inviting me.

Kathi Lipp (01:27)

Oh,

thank you. Well, and we were just talking about you baking sourdough and I’m making soup and that’s how we’re getting through this winter and spring. And but you are also in, you know, as you spend your time lovingly watching your sourdough rise, you also have completed this book, Ruth. And I love what you say that sometimes Ruth is kind of put in a hallmark movie tinted lens.

And so what do you mean by that? If somebody’s not familiar with the book of Ruth and the story of Ruth and Naomi, can you give us the reader’s digest version?

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young (02:08)

Yeah, thanks for asking. Now, I just want to make clear that I do love my Hallmark movies and the predictability is something that is actually sometimes a balm to the soul.

Kathi Lipp (02:12)

? yes, there’s… Yeah.

And Dorina, should say that

we both work in some, we’re both contractors with Hallmark. So like we are not disparaging the Hallmark name. So please go ahead, yes.

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young (02:25)

Yeah.

Absolutely not. But when I say that the Book of Ruth is usually viewed through this kind of hallmark tinted lens, I say that because oftentimes people connect to this story with kind of a, you know, girl suffers hardship, girl overcomes the hardship, boy meets girl, they fall in love and then they live happily ever after. And what I have discovered through the Book of Ruth is that it is so much deeper than that.

And it’s not just this predictable kind of like romance story. It’s actually a description for us of a real life situation that was messy and unexpected and colored by grief. And so just to kind of quickly summarize, asked, you know,

Kathi Lipp (03:11)

Mm-hmm.

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young (03:18)

What’s the Reader’s Digest version or, you know, I think about Cliff Notes. We used to use Cliff Notes, right? So what’s the quick way to kind of talk about the Book of Ruth? I would say what it starts with actually is tragedy. So Ruth is a woman who was married and her husband actually dies. In fact, her brother-in-law and her father-in-law also passed away. And so here we have Ruth.

Naomi, her mother-in-law and her sister-in-law, Orpa, and they are in a dire situation where they are widows. They don’t have their providers. They don’t seem to have a way forward. And that’s where the book of Ruth starts. And then what we see is we see these women on this dusty road back to Bethlehem. And yes, we are supposed to recognize the name of that city. They are headed back to Naomi’s home where there’s a promise of provision.

And when they go there, they find God’s provision, but in a very unexpected way through a landowner named Boaz. And that’s kind of the gist of the story. And I don’t want us to hurry past all of that richness just to get to the happily ever after.

Kathi Lipp (04:24)

Right.

It you know, the happily ever after only comes after we recognize the pain in our lives. boy, you know, I didn’t really when you said that you had written this Bible study on Ruth and I thought, that’s so cool. I always love your takes on stuff. It didn’t occur to me later that this mirrors your own story so much.

And you don’t have to be a widow to appreciate the depth of this story, but this does mirror some of your own experience, doesn’t it?

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young (05:16)

Absolutely. This is a book that I was in love with for years before, like you said, since I fell in love with the Bible. You know, this has been a book that I’ve studied, that I’ve taught, that I’ve mulled over, but it completely changed when I was widowed 10 years ago. And here I was on the road to Bethlehem, so to speak, and trying to figure out what my life was. And God, the Redeemer met me on that dusty road. And so he used

reading and studying of this book actually to bring the real life redemption that he had in store for me and for my daughters.

Kathi Lipp (05:52)

And you know, you think about this, the book of Ruth is really about God’s love for the disenfranchised, isn’t it? For the widow, for the orphan, for the immigrant, for the refugee and the poor. What in your perspective has changed since you did this Bible study? Has your perspective on any of…

how we as Christians interact with widows or with orphans or with the poor. Has any of that changed for you through your lens of Ruth?

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young (06:34)

You know, I definitely feel like going through the process of creating this study and then even, you know, we did video teaching. So teaching this study, writing it, editing all of it, it has deepened my understanding that we serve a God who cares about the vulnerable. And so that is really actually the invitation here. Part of it is for us to understand that God cares about us.

in our unexpected circumstances, whether you’re a widow or not. But then part of it is an invitation for us to see that, hey, there are people all around us who are vulnerable, who are disenfranchised, who are grieving, that actually God the Redeemer calls us to reach out to, to feed, to come alongside. so for me, that’s where the story then became not just this description of what happened to this one woman,

Kathi Lipp (07:04)

Yeah.

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young (07:32)

but also a call to all of us as believers.

Kathi Lipp (07:37)

You know, one of the things that I found so fascinating about this is that you’ve really incorporated some artistic elements into this study. There are visual arts and journaling prompts. And I just thought I would so love to do this with a group of women where we can be sharing those experiences and seeing into each other’s study and their history.

because I think that that is something that sometimes we’re missing. I’ve been to Bible studies before where you are just filling in blanks and writing in answers. And that can be helpful, but it can be so much more. What caused you to take this really kind of multimedia approach to this Bible study?

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young (08:31)

Well, you I wanted to do something that was a little bit more creative and recognizing that a lot of people have studied the Book of Ruth. It’s popular for women’s studies. And so I thought to myself, well, what’s something I could do that’s unique, that’s experiential, that invites people to go a little bit deeper? And so we incorporated things like Vizio Divina, which is original art pieces that were created for my Bible study. And then

Kathi Lipp (08:40)

Yeah, right.

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young (08:57)

It allows people who are reading the study to look at that art piece, to be reflective, to pray, to contemplate, and then to enter in with the Holy Spirit to see, okay, well, what can I learn from this portion of scripture? And a lot of times, visual arts and different forms of art can help us to go there. And so that’s why I wanted to incorporate something a little bit different. I do believe in verse by verse exposition, and that’s there.

But I do want people to own this in their heart, to have a takeaway that this is a book that not just knowledge is gained, but actually that their lives are changed.

Kathi Lipp (09:39)

I love it. What group of women do you feel like would most benefit from going through this study? Do you think it would be better, you know, one-on-one with just a couple of people, a large group or I know we think every Bible study is for everybody, is, you know, but I also feel I love this. And like I said, I would want to do it with a group of my friends, even if we were online together, but

Who did you have in mind when you were creating this Bible study? I guess that’s the question.

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young (10:14)

Well, I’ll be honest and say kind of that bullseye target is for women who are suffering or who are grieving. And I’m having the privilege of actually going through the study right now with a small group of widow moms. And it is so rich to just see how this ministers to them. But I do believe that it can appeal to different groups. And so that’s why I would really encourage people to think about whether it’s through online Zoom or even in person in someone’s living room.

Kathi Lipp (10:41)

Mm-hmm.

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young (10:42)

that you go through it with a small group where you can process some of those things. some of the reflection questions that I have for people also are to look around and to see who’s in your community, who’s in your church or your circle, your neighborhood, who really needs that ministry of presence. And I think if we do it in a small group, we can even brainstorm some of those things together.

Kathi Lipp (10:59)

Yeah.

I love it. Yeah, because there’s a real practical element to all of this as well, which I absolutely love. Dorina, it is Redeemer, God’s loving kindness in the Book of Ruth. Guys, it’s available anywhere you love to buy books, but of course, we’ll have the link in there for you as well. And we’ll also have Dorina’s website so you can find out more about it. Thanks so much for being on with me today.

Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young (11:30)

Thanks for making my Bible study something that you keep in your home.

Kathi Lipp (11:33)

Yes, absolutely in a place of honor

friend in a place of honor. Well friends you’ve been listening to the writing. ? no, you haven’t Well friends, you’ve been listening to the clutter free academy podcast. I’m Kathi Lipp now go create the clutter free life You’ve always wanted to live

#674 – Low Buy July: 31 Days to Your Financial Reset

Jun 17, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Freedom, Low Buy July, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo talk about why they're moving from “No Buy July” to a gentler, grace-filled “Low Buy July.” If you’ve ever felt like buying toilet paper broke the rules or you’re just exhausted by all-or-nothing...

#673 – The Dishwasher Dilemma: Secrets to a Clutter-Free Kitchen

Jun 10, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Kitchen, Organizing, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this engaging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive into the dynamic world of dishwashing, sharing secrets to establish a daily rhythm that keeps kitchen chaos at bay. Listen in as Kathi reveals her tried-and-true methods for...

#672 – From Pantry to Plate: The Secret to Smart Food Storage

Jun 3, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Foodie Friday, Home, Kitchen, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo in this episode of Clutter-Free Academy as they tackle the often overwhelming world of food storage. Whether you’re struggling with long-term pantry organization, fridge chaos, containers for on the go or finding the right containers for...

#668 – Let’s Get Under the Sink

by Roger Lipp | May 6, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Podcast, tips and ideas | 0 comments

#668 – Let’s Get Under the Sink

Listen Now

In this episode of the Clutter Free Academy Podcast, host Kathi Lipp, joined by Tonya Kubo, demystifies one of the most daunting household areas: under the kitchen sink. The duo shares practical tips on decluttering, cleaning, and organizing this often-neglected space. Listeners will learn how to inspect for leaks, utilize vertical storage, and develop a system to avoid overstocking on cleaning products. With Kathi’s relatable anecdotes and step-by-step guidance, tackle your under-the-sink chaos and reclaim a clutter-free life. Tune in for a sprinkle of humor, insightful advice, and strategies for enjoying your home anew.

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

Products & Amazon Links

Below are suggested products for organizing under the sink,

2-Tier Sliding Drawer

Example: SimpleHouseware 2-Tier Under Sink Organizer

Link: https://amzn.to/4kQ0rdL

Stackable Bins

Example: Hudgan Set Of 8 Stackable Organizer Bins, Straight Sides Plastic Storage Containers?

https://amzn.to/3FtUDqd

Door-Mounted Rack or Hooks

Example: Command Wire Hooks 16-Pack

Link: https://amzn.to/4kP2PkX

(Great for hanging towels, brushes, or gloves on the inside of the cabinet door.)

Tension Rod for Spray Bottles

Example: AIZESI Spring Tension Rod 16-28 inch – 2Pcs

Link: https://amzn.to/3DGgDxA

(Pick a length that fits your cabinet width.)

Non-Slip Shelf Liner

Example: Gorilla Grip powerGRIP Drawer Shelf and CabinetLiner

Link: https://amzn.to/3FEt9y8

Moisture-Proof Bins for Towels/Rags

Example: IRIS USA WeatherPro 6 Qt Storage Bins with Lids, 6 Pack,

Link: https://amzn.to/41GHzoM

(Keeps moisture out and is easy to wipe clean.)

Label Maker (Optional)

Example: DYMO LabelManager 160 Portable Label Maker Bundle

Link: https://amzn.to/3Ra9FE4

General Tools MMD4E Digital Moisture Meter, Water Leak Detector, Moisture Tester,?

Link: https://amzn.to/4hA1ZWq

Clorox Free & Clear Disinfecting Mist, Household Essentials, 1 Spray Bottle and 1 Refill, 14 Fl Oz Each

Link: https://amzn.to/4bNEuba

FYI: Some product links may be affiliate links. If you buy, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support!

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:08)
Well, hey friend, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps every day to live with less clutter and more life. I’m Kathi Lipp. Today I am here with Tonya Kubo. Hey Tonya. And we are tackling another project. I think this may rank as one of my least favorite areas to declutter and clean. It is

Tonya Kubo (00:22)
Hey, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (00:38)
Under the kitchen sink. How do you feel about under? I anything where I have to squat down Is going to go pretty low on the list

Tonya Kubo (00:47)
Yeah,

and my house is old, so underneath the sink smells funny. Not gonna lie. Just smells weird. I just don’t want to go down there.

Kathi Lipp (00:52)
Yeah, okay.

Yeah, you know, several years ago, we we noticed that the outside of our house had a big spot on it. And we’re like, what is that? And it we had a leak under our sink we didn’t know about, and ended up replacing part of our house, you know, the side on the house having to

Tonya Kubo (01:04)
Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:19)
cut that all out, repaint it. Fortunately, we hired somebody who knew what they were doing because that’s not mine and Roger’s giftedness. But it’s important that you’re down there pretty regularly and inspecting things because…

Tonya Kubo (01:34)
for that

exact reason, which is also why I avoid it.

Kathi Lipp (01:38)
Yeah, I

know, right? There’s a show that Roger and I love, it’s called Mom, and somebody was at Bonnie’s house and they moved the bookcase and she says, you have mold, you you have a wet spot. And she goes, I know, and I paint it and it goes away for six months. And it’s like…

Why do you think we have the desk where we have it? It’s not because we want it there. Yeah, but you know, this stuff can be serious and it’s also annoying. Tonya, let’s talk under the sink.

Tonya Kubo (02:15)
All right, so it’s a catch-all, which you’ve established. We avoid it, which we’ve also established. So how do we get started if we want to doom clean under the sink?

Kathi Lipp (02:19)
Yeah, yes.

Hahaha

Yeah, so first of all, we have to declutter and it was so interesting just the other day. We had our windshield replaced on our car because Giant Boulder came at my face. I was like, it was was not fun, but we got it. And the people who replaced it, they had a big old can. They gave us a big old can of auto window cleaner. And I said, as I was.

Tonya Kubo (02:40)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:57)
Like, where do we put this? And I said, Roger, where would you first think to look when you needed auto window cleaner? And he said, under the sink. I’m like.

Tonya Kubo (03:06)
Hahaha!

Kathi Lipp (03:09)
Really?

Tonya Kubo (03:10)
But it’s true because you’re like, I mean, this was in my house two weeks ago. Lily was looking for something random and it’s like, it’s so random. Where would you put that? I bet I would put that under the sink. And she went and it was there.

Kathi Lipp (03:23)
Really?

My good. Okay. Well see I cannot argue when I say I’m going to ask you the question Where would you first look for this and I was thinking our auto supplies. nene It’s under the sink. Okay, apparently Roger has been affirmed in this so Yeah, we’re gonna pull everything out. We’re gonna empty that cabinet and You just need to see everything sponges have to empty cleaners

And there’s nothing wrong with a half empty cleaner, but if you have the half empty cleaner plus the full cleaner plus another half empty cleaner, et cetera, et cetera, you’re gonna have stuff down there you forgot and you have. So we’re gonna, yes please.

Tonya Kubo (04:08)
Yes. Do you want to hear my story? Six.

So I keep the white vinegar underneath the sink too in a big jug because old house stinky disposal. Right. So we had been buying a hand wash like dish, Dawn dish soap. I pulled out the vinegar. I had six dish soaps behind it, but they’re short. They’re short. The vinegar was tall.

Kathi Lipp (04:14)
Okay, uh-huh. Right, yeah.

Yeah.

I’m not gonna fault you. Yes, I know. And

right, I totally get that. Apparently I was deathly afraid that the world was gonna run out of Dawn Powerwash.

Tonya Kubo (04:45)
I’m definitely afraid of that. That has changed our life since we discovered it at your house.

Kathi Lipp (04:49)
Right? It’s so great. And so it feels like every time I went to Costco, I bought the three pack. We’re good. We are so good. Yeah, as one does. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (05:00)
as one does. All right.

So you pull everything out so that you can be like me and discover that you actually have six dishwashing detergent things.

Kathi Lipp (05:08)
Yeah,

so you’re gonna either put that all on your counter on the kitchen table whatever makes sense to you Yeah, you’re gonna keep the products you actually use I don’t care if it’s full full You know a quarter full if you use it and if you can combine things now be very careful with combining things You’re not gonna come buying Bleach and other things right? We’re not gonna be that’s I couldn’t think of the word. Yes We’re not gonna do that because we want everybody to stay alive

Tonya Kubo (05:31)
No bleach and ammonia. Please do not do that.

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (05:38)
So you’re only going to combine like with like. Donate or give away. If you have, you know, maybe 20 Dawn Power washes, maybe it’s time to donate a few of those to your local food pantry. But, you know, don’t, we’re never donating junk guys. And then we’re going to toss things like expired chemicals, moldy sponges, broken tools. Now, when I say we’re going to toss expired chemicals, you’re going to check

Tonya Kubo (05:56)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:08)
with your local municipality about how you get rid of chemicals. You know what, can I just say there have been hostage negotiations that take less back and forth than us getting rid of chemicals in the greater Sacramento area. But you know what, we’re gonna do it right. and you know, dried paint, things like that. We’re just, we’re gonna do all the right things. You’re going to…

Tonya Kubo (06:24)
Hahaha

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:35)
Check for duplicates and safety. So first you’re gonna pull everything out. Second, you’re gonna sort items. Check for duplicates and safety. So if you have three bottles, same cleaner, like we said, combine or let some go. There are some chemicals that can be hazardous, so we’re going to dispose of those properly. But also make sure, check expiration dates. If something is a chemical and it’s out of date,

It’s probably time to dispose of it properly. And then four, you’re gonna decide how many backups can I, six may be too much of maybe. how many backup cleaners do you realistically need? The more backups you hold, the more clutter you risk. So keep a small stash, not an entire store’s worth. So what I’ve done is I have put those Dawn containers

Tonya Kubo (07:11)
Maybe.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:32)
into we have a very high shelf in our garage, but I checked that before I go to Costco and I don’t think I’ve bought any Dawn Power Wash in the last year. So this is a victory. So you have to be able to see it friends.

Tonya Kubo (07:48)
I think that’s the big lesson through this whole series too, right? Is what you can’t see tends to pile up, right? No matter what your daily habits are. And you know, like before the dishwasher soap incident, I would have said that making me pull everything out of underneath my sink would have made me super nervous because honestly, I’m just afraid every time I pull stuff out that I’m gonna find a leak of some sort. That’s really my fear.

Kathi Lipp (07:55)
Great.

Yes, I get

it. Right.

Tonya Kubo (08:16)
is that I’m gonna go

push something through and my hand’s gonna go through the floor. I’ve seen that movie. That doesn’t work out, right? But to your point, it’s the only way to see what’s down there. It’s the only way to figure out if it makes sense. And it’s the only way to really get it clean, which brings me to the next segment of this particular episode.

Kathi Lipp (08:19)
Yes. Yes.

Yeah,

but Tonya, I’m also going to talk about the fear of the drip here for a second. We want a drip, not a demo. OK? I want you to catch the drip before we have to go to power tools, which is what Roger and I had to do. So I’m speaking out. I’m laying myself bare for this experience. So yes, let’s talk about cleaning.

Tonya Kubo (08:51)
Right.

Kathi Lipp (09:08)
Let’s get started with this is that you’re you’re gonna pull everything out and this is the time to disinfect Okay, so that’s before you do anything else and I know we’re gonna be talking a lot about how to clean all this but use I want you to use something that has a disinfecting spray because like you said water mold crusty residue soap

Tonya Kubo (09:23)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:37)
Leaked liquids. I I want you to wipe down and disavow. know this is such an exciting thing, right? I mean I see your face

Tonya Kubo (09:44)
Super exciting.

Yeah, I’m making my poo face as my kids call it. But the wiping down and disinfecting is really important and it is an important first step. I would love for us to tackle the rest of the steps after our commercial break. So we are gonna just take a quick break, pay a few bills, and then we’re gonna come back and talk more about what cleaning looks like underneath the sink.

Kathi Lipp (09:49)
Okay.

Tonya Kubo (10:14)
Welcome back, Kathi you have helped us declutter. You talked to us about wiping down, disinfecting, especially because there’s spills, there’s leaks. We talked about maybe some mildew and yucky stuff. Now take us to the rest of the steps.

Kathi Lipp (10:18)
Yes.

Okay, so one, wipe down the disinfect, two, address those leaks or dampness. Now, I will find this little tool. I didn’t think about it until we were talking right now, but one of my nephews is a building, like he knows everything. He’s a world expert on concrete, which is, know, but an interesting, and I learned from him that concrete,

Either has no Wait either has cracks or is going to crack so that’s good information to know I didn’t know that but also he told me about a tool that you can get on Amazon that Detects leaks and dampness so I yeah, so if that is something that is a problem for you I’ll find the one that he recommends

Because I think that that’s important for us to have but check things check to see if things are wet Check the garbage disposal and seals if you see moisture or mildew fix it before putting anything back Okay, and then I’m gonna ask you to vacuum and sweep you may want to do this before you wipe things down But you know there’s floor under the sink if you need to get under their crayon crumbs and dust pile up quick vacuum

Tonya Kubo (11:27)
Okay.

Kathi Lipp (11:55)
or sweep ensures a fresh start. We love a fresh start. We love a clean sleep. And then I want you to let it dry thoroughly. Leave the doors open. If you need to stick a fan there to let everything, you don’t want to put moisture on top of moisture. So we’re gonna spend a little time just letting everything dry out. Bone dry cabinets prevent further musty smells, mold issues.

Tonya Kubo (11:58)
We do.

Kathi Lipp (12:23)
And I’m also gonna come back and say, wipe down the sides of the walls, okay? And this is where, you know, I just, want you to have a fresh start in that space. I use, there is a great misting spray. It’s a Clorox disinfecting spray that I have that I really like for those kind of different areas that can tend to have.

Tonya Kubo (12:29)
Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:53)
You know, you can have some issues build up there. So we’ll be sure to put that in there as well. But I really want to spend the bulk of our time here today, Tonya, talking about how do you organize for longevity? How do you organize so that you can go to that space? And Tonya, I want to take away the fear of under the sink. So that’s where I want to spend most of our time.

Tonya Kubo (13:23)
Okay, okay. So I think we should just take a quick break so that you can have that uninterrupted at this point. So please just stick with us because Kathi’s gonna come back and walk us through quite a few steps and some detail when it comes to organizing the under the sink area because it is so problematic. We’ll be right back.

Kathi Lipp (13:30)
Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:46)
All right, Kathi, take us home. How do we organize under the sink so that it stays neat?

Kathi Lipp (13:49)
Yes.

Let me tell you my goal here. When it comes to the area under the sink, we’re aiming for solutions, not storage of unresolved stuff. Let’s reclaim that space, friend. Let’s reclaim that space, okay? Because it’s very easy to just shove things that you don’t know what to do with them under the sink and just say, okay, well, that’s the place I would look for them. No, I want better for you, my friend. Okay.

So here are a few options of things that have really helped me with some of my, and by the way, this could be under your bathroom sink, this could be your kitchen sink, this could be utility room, all these places. first thing I wanna talk about are these two-tiered sliding drawers or caddies. They are perfect, they’re two-tier, so you get double space because,

That under the sink area can be pretty tall. It’s gonna be, for most modern homes, about the height of your dishwasher. And our dishwashers have two to three tiers on them. So let’s use that vertical space as much as we can. Now you’re under the sink. It was built in the 1950s. What does yours look like?

Tonya Kubo (15:12)
Well, so our garbage disposal takes up most of the under the sink space. So we’ve just got the space on either side of it. It’s weird. Super weird. ?

Kathi Lipp (15:15)
Yeah, okay.

Yeah, okay. So I may have a solution for you though.

I may have something for you. There are these slide out caddies that fit around your pipes, including, it might be wide enough to fit around your garbage disposal and your pipe under the sink. so those, you build them in, you screw them into the floor and they can pull out and give you a lot more storage space. So I don’t know, you…

Here’s what I’m gonna say every single episode. You’re gonna get so sick of me saying this, Tonya, but you have to.

Tonya Kubo (15:54)
Wait, let me guess, let

me guess. Should I measure it first?

Kathi Lipp (15:57)
You should measure it which can I just guys I am the most unmeasured person like That looks like it would work No more. I am now a measuring tape full I want you you have to measure how deep it is how wide your stuff is and then we’ll put a link in there to see if that could fit another Solution might be stackable bits

So if your sink pipes are in the way using shorter bins that fit on either side, that may be have to, you know, what the most that you could do, Tonya. And then we talked about this last time and I know you haven’t had a chance to implement it yet, but I’m going to tempt you again with door mounted racks or hooks. Yes. You do. Okay. A strip.

Tonya Kubo (16:45)
I do have that underneath my sink. have, what do you call it? Like a, it’s a rod,

a rod, you know, to hang the towels or your rubber gloves or anything like that.

Kathi Lipp (16:52)
? okay. ? nice. Yes. Okay.

That I love that. Okay. My next thing I’m going to talk about is also rod related. And that is a tension rod. Now, why would you think why would you put a tension rod there for you can put spray bottles, you can hang those by their handles, or yes.

Tonya Kubo (17:05)
Mmm.

Yeah.

I could hang

spray bottles on mine. It is the perfect size because it’s not too thick. It’s not too thick.

Kathi Lipp (17:24)
Okay, so we’re gonna need to make sure that we see your you know You can give us a link to what you’ve used so I think this is such a small space But I want you to maximize it as much as possible because as we’ve determined It’s really really valuable, and I I’ll be honest with you. I have maximized many of my spaces

Tonya Kubo (17:38)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:47)
I haven’t maximized all of my, we have a weird bathroom upstairs that I need to, it needs to be more maximized. So we’ve got these ideas for you. gonna, we have a download with all of these links that you can use. But then I want you to think back to how can you group these by categories? So are there things you use every day? I remember when I had my apartment in Japan, I just had a little.

Tonya Kubo (17:55)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:14)
that I kept under the sink and I pulled it out every day and it had my washcloths, had my spray bottle, it had my sponges. That could be something you do. Backup items or less used products can go towards the back or the upper tiers, but you wanna keep those things that you’re using all the time. And then number three, label and limit. Label and limit how much you’re keeping of things.

Tonya Kubo (18:29)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:42)
Limit bins or baskets, for instance, cleaning cloths, trash bags, sponges. Also, if you bring in a new product, consider using up the old one. I don’t want you to hoard half-used containers, but I also don’t want you to throw away perfectly good products. So challenge yourself to use up what you have before buying something new. Or say, hey, I have a week left of this. I need to put it on my shopping list. And then…

Are there some additional items you need? If you’re storing any towels or rags, there are such things as moisture proof bins. So if you get a lot of moisture in your house, you may want to consider something like that. Or it might make sense to put a non-slip shelf liner to prevent bottles from sliding around. those are just, again, everybody’s under the sink area is so completely different.

There is no one size fits all, maybe a combination of some of these ideas could really help you out.

Tonya Kubo (19:45)
? gosh, I love that. tension rods, you that’s one of those things I see on TikTok a lot. Like you can do a lot of things with a tension rod. Who knew? And, but the hanging of the spray bottles, I don’t know why I’ve never thought about that. Mainly just because I moved in here and I use everything like the prior owners used it because I just don’t have energy for creativity.

Kathi Lipp (19:53)
You really can. Yes.

Yeah,

right, that’s okay. Your creativity is going to building a business. We use a lot of tension rods in our RV as well for storage and hanging and it’s made a big difference. So you’re right, there’s a lot of tension stuff. We’ll have to really explore tension rods in some of these upcoming episodes, because I think that could be a solution for a lot of people who are living in small spaces.

Tonya Kubo (20:16)
Mmm.

Yeah, okay, so tension rod and we’ve talked about labeling, which I love because I think if you live in a house where it’s more than just you, labeling is the secret to getting other people to help out because then they can’t tell you that they don’t know where things go.

Kathi Lipp (20:49)
Right, absolutely, absolutely. I think you’re exactly right there.

Tonya Kubo (20:53)
So Kathi, are there any final tips you want to tell us you want to add before we wrap up this particular episode on that under the sink area?

Kathi Lipp (21:03)
Yeah, this is the cave of the house, isn’t it? It is the dark, damp cave. But you can do most of this in under an hour if you declutter clean and then organize. First, organize with bins or caddies you have. And Tonya, let me just say, don’t sleep on Dollar Tree. I’m sending you links because

Tonya Kubo (21:06)
It really is.

Kathi Lipp (21:31)
There are not Dollar Tree links as far as I know. yeah, so, but there are caddies you can get at Dollar Tree. You can get tension rods at Dollar Tree. So, you know, one of the things I heard somebody say recently, I thought this was so brilliant. They said, you know, when they were buying tools for their first house, their grandfather said, buy the cheapest tools you can get. And then,

Tonya Kubo (21:34)
Not as far as I know either.

Kathi Lipp (22:00)
When those break, you know you use those enough to replace with something of quality. And I thought, that’s so smart. Instead of buying the best thing ever for every space, buy something, you know, for these solutions. I’ll just tell you, Tonya, I’m trying out all sorts of different organization solutions. I went and I dropped $40 at Dollar Tree.

Tonya Kubo (22:30)
?

Kathi Lipp (22:30)
You

can buy a lot of stuff at Dollar Tree. And so I’m trying to find out what’s the path of least resistance? Do I need the $25 Amazon thing or can I get away with the $1.25 version at Dollar Tree? And some of the things, let’s be honest, what you’re getting from Amazon or IKEA or, you know, there’s still Bed Bath and Beyond, you know, stuff you can buy.

Tonya Kubo (22:36)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (22:59)
Some of that it’s worth it to buy the solution that you need but some of it the dollar 25 version might be just fine. things like that for little storage under your sink. Don’t sleep on Dollar Tree. That’s what I would say.

Tonya Kubo (23:15)
my gosh, I think that’s a really good tip. And the big one there is just get the cheapest thing that makes sense. And when it breaks, when it wears out, then you know that it’s time to invest in something of a little higher quality versus buying top of the line because we’re buying to belong because we cluttery people do that thinking it’s going to make us more organized, more this, more that. And then finding out that we just don’t use it at all.

Kathi Lipp (23:31)
Exactly.

We love that.

Yeah, know, Tonya, we talked a little bit about this last time, sitting with our discomfort sometimes. And you said that, you you bought a pantry and you thought you needed more space, but what you really needed was to declutter and then put in a couple of organizational tools. And I love that example because that’s exactly it. Sit with your discomfort. Like, why does this area under the sink bother me? Well, I’m worried about…

Tonya Kubo (23:49)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (24:12)
the drips, I’m worried about whatever that is, I don’t feel like there’s enough space, we can address that. So sit with your discomfort for a little bit, buy the cheapest solution you can and then upgrade when you need to.

Tonya Kubo (24:18)
Mm-hmm.

my gosh, such juicy, juicy tidbits of wisdom. Thank you so much, Kathi. And thank you for addressing this, because I don’t think I’ve ever heard or saw anything in recent memory, at least that talks about the Under the Sink, but you’ve given me a whole new perspective on it. So I really appreciate that. And listeners, thank you for joining us today. Thank you for sticking it out, learning all about the dank dark underneath the sink area.

Kathi Lipp (24:45)
Yay!

Yeah

Tonya Kubo (24:54)
We appreciate it. You have been listening to Clutterfree Academy. Now go create the clutter free life you have always wanted to live.

#674 – Low Buy July: 31 Days to Your Financial Reset

Jun 17, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Freedom, Low Buy July, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo talk about why they're moving from “No Buy July” to a gentler, grace-filled “Low Buy July.” If you’ve ever felt like buying toilet paper broke the rules or you’re just exhausted by all-or-nothing...

#673 – The Dishwasher Dilemma: Secrets to a Clutter-Free Kitchen

Jun 10, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Kitchen, Organizing, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this engaging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive into the dynamic world of dishwashing, sharing secrets to establish a daily rhythm that keeps kitchen chaos at bay. Listen in as Kathi reveals her tried-and-true methods for...

#672 – From Pantry to Plate: The Secret to Smart Food Storage

Jun 3, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Foodie Friday, Home, Kitchen, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo in this episode of Clutter-Free Academy as they tackle the often overwhelming world of food storage. Whether you’re struggling with long-term pantry organization, fridge chaos, containers for on the go or finding the right containers for...

#666 – The Nightstand Reset: Creating a Launch Pad for Peace

by Roger Lipp | Apr 22, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast | 2 comments

#666 – The Nightstand Reset: Creating a Launch Pad for Peace

Listen Now

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo delve into the importance of a tidy nightstand for a better night’s sleep and a more organized life. They discuss Kathi’s recent purchase of new nightstands with built-in outlets, her nighttime routine essentials, and practical strategies for keeping your bedroom clutter-free. Whether it’s finding the right furniture, using drawer dividers, or setting up a night basket, Kathi and Tonya offer a step-by-step system to help listeners turn their nightstand into a launchpad for an organized day. And don’t miss the listener challenge that encourages you to declutter your own nightstand and reap the benefits.

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

Sand & Stable Scarlett 2 – Drawer End Table and Built-In Outlets & Reviews | Wayfair

Download the Free Guide:
The Nightstand Reset – your 10-minute guide to a more peaceful evening

FYI: Some product links may be affiliate links. If you buy, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support!

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)
Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with Tonya Kubo, leader of all things clutter free. Tonya, we are back into small spaces. We love a good small space. you know, our last podcast was our spiciest episode ever. And now it’s Tonya and Kathi after dark.

Tonya Kubo (00:40)
I you hide these from me just to get my reaction.

Kathi Lipp (00:44)
come on. actually that one that one I just came up with.

And let me tell you, on one of my favorite podcasts, Wirecutter. At the end of the podcast, they ask, what’s your favorite thing that you’ve bought recently? And so Tonya, want you to, I want to pretend I’m on Wirecutter and I want you to ask me that question. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (01:10)
Okay, so Kathi Lipp, what is your

favorite thing you have bought recently?

Kathi Lipp (01:14)
I’m so glad you asked. I’m so, so glad you asked because I’m so excited about this. And I bought it. I actually don’t have it. So maybe check with me in six months to see if I still love it. But can I tell you, you know, something I have discovered Tonya is I am really good at decluttering and I am a total cheapskate when it comes to organization. Like I’ve, I’ve thought for years, I don’t need to

Tonya Kubo (01:24)
Ha ha ha ha!

Ha!

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:44)
buy all these wacky organizational tools. don’t need, and then I’ve come to find out sometimes you do. You’re creating the system, but to keep the system going, sometimes you’re like, okay, I just need to do this. And so I have finally broken down and I have bought new nightstands. Now I haven’t bought a new nightstand. I’m not exaggerating. Since I was married the first time,

Tonya Kubo (01:47)
Mm-hmm.

I’m right.

Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

Kathi Lipp (02:14)
And that was in 1990. So I have not bought a nightstand for myself in 35 years. So I’m going to tell you about this nightstand. So the nightstands we have now, because they were passed down when we bought this house, so you could say we bought it since we bought a house and these came with it, but I digress. They’re very open. And so you see everything.

Tonya Kubo (02:17)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:43)
And

I don’t like that look. And no, I am not a Swedish girlie. I wish I could be, but that is just not how I live my life. And so I’m reverting back to the nightstand of my youth, which was two drawers. And one drawer was for everything you need every single night. And the other drawer is for things you may need less option, but you definitely want to have.

Tonya Kubo (02:45)
You don’t like the open concept nightstand, is that what you’re telling me?

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:12)
And now these new nightstands have in the top of the nightstand, they have built-in chargers.

Tonya Kubo (03:23)
What? Like, like chargers for a phone or like, like outlets for like a regular cord?

Kathi Lipp (03:24)
Yes. Yes.

Outlets

outlets so you can put your USB cords in them and Yes, and can I tell you how excited I am about this little update and the reviews on these are really good I’ll put them. It’s on Wayfair. I’ll put a link so you guys can see them, but That is what we’re talking about today is nightstands because we’re going through the house and we’re doing all these little micro spaces and

Tonya Kubo (03:36)
God

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (03:59)
These microspaces make the difference day to day of how we operate our life. So let me ask you about your nightstand situation, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (04:02)
Mm-hmm.

well, mean, my nightstand situation is not that exciting because the way our house is set up. So we have one nightstand and that’s on Brian’s side of the bed and it is one drawer and a shelf at the bottom. So it’s kind of a hybrid of what you have. And then on my side, because the bed has to be pushed so close to the dresser, I just use the top of the dresser as my nightstand, which is problematic because I don’t get the benefit of drawers because it’s our dresser drawers.

Kathi Lipp (04:16)
my goodness.

Yes. Yes, yes.

okay.

Right.

Yes. Yeah, that I think you got the short stick.

Tonya Kubo (04:40)
totally got the short end of the stick. And if you come into our bedroom, it makes him look like Brian is the organized person. And I am not because of course for him, he just tucks everything into the drawer before he like leaves in the morning. Meanwhile, everything, you know, like my eye drops and all of my stuff has to be on top of the dresser. So it’s just not an ideal situation. It’s one of those things where we’ve talked about like,

Kathi Lipp (04:50)
Okay.

Beautiful.

Mmm, yes.

Tonya Kubo (05:06)
Well, we should do it differently, we’re like, okay, well we have to wait till we buy a new dresser and then we can do this and then we can do that. And then suddenly I’m tired. I don’t want to change.

Kathi Lipp (05:10)
Yeah.

Right. It’s

the give a mouse a cookie of nightstands and nobody needs that, right? So I have found part of the reason that I’ve made this change is a couple of reasons. One, Roger has a CPAP and we need a place to put all of that nonsense, right? But the other thing is I have noticed when my nightstand gets too backed up,

Tonya Kubo (05:18)
Exactly!

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:42)
I

actually don’t sleep well because I’m afraid my phone’s going to fall off. I’m afraid about that glass of water. Like, and I at night, I don’t want to spend time cleaning all that nonsense up, but I really do feel. And this is this. If you listen to our podcast listeners from Dr. Vicky Casper, where she was talking about getting better sleep, she says a neat organized bedroom.

Tonya Kubo (05:48)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:12)
Impacts

your sleep in really really good ways And so I know that a neat surface actually helps me fall asleep faster It it feels more invite. I love walking into our room when the bed is made the nightstand is clear and it’s like, It’s just all waiting for me. Does that make sense? I don’t know Yeah

Tonya Kubo (06:29)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, it totally makes sense. And I also

think that, you know, I’m a big proponent of routines, like having a solid morning routine and an evening routine. And my thing is, your evening routine should be all about making your morning easier. And your morning routine is all about making the end of your day easier. And so I can imagine having a tidy nightstand really makes the mornings easier at your house.

Kathi Lipp (06:39)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely. And I just want to sink into bed. And, you know, I have a little routine that I do each night. And to have all of that there and then to have what I need in the morning, my phone, my glasses, all that kind of stuff. It just makes everything better. OK. go ahead.

Tonya Kubo (07:11)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so was going to say, so, so, you know, we’ve talked about the value of a tidy nightstand. We talked about a couple of different nightstand situations. So let’s just say our listeners not there yet, Kathi. Our listener doesn’t have the open concept nightstand that is soon to be replaced by a closed concept nightstand.

Kathi Lipp (07:28)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I get it.

I

am waiting for the FedEx guy right here. I am.

Tonya Kubo (07:44)
Yeah,

with power associated with it. Like that’s my favorite part of the whole thing. So walk us through how to get started. Okay, the nightstand is out of control. What do we do?

Kathi Lipp (07:48)
my goodness, right?

Yes, me too.

Yeah.

Okay. And by the way, I have been perfect. My nightstand that I’ve had has been perfectly serviceable. It’s just not my ideal situation. And right now I wanted to do something for me. So it doesn’t matter what your nightstand situation is. It all starts the same way. So first, again, as, as long time listeners, this podcast has been going for a decade now.

Tonya Kubo (08:17)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:26)
I’ve always said don’t pull everything out at once and put it in the middle of the room, but we’re talking about super small spaces here, tiny, tiny, tiny spaces. So I’m gonna tell you, pull everything out. I want you to pull out the books, the cords, the lotions, the random socks. I mean, we’ve all been there, right? Let me talk about other things I have in there, like the tweezers, the chapstick, and then you’re gonna sort this into a couple of different piles, so keep.

Tonya Kubo (08:26)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:55)
What truly belongs? So do you have medications that you need to take at night? That phone charger, your chapstick, maybe you have a little vase you want to keep on that nightstand. I like to a pin at my nightstand, my glasses. So I’m going to keep those. And then another pile is relocate. What has wandered there that does not need to be there?

Tonya Kubo (09:11)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:23)
I’m embarrassed. I don’t know. You I have weird stuff there. And also I have too many pairs of glasses. I don’t need like four pairs of glasses right there.

Tonya Kubo (09:33)
Okay, do you want to the weird stuff that’s in Brian’s drawer when I clean it out? Candy wrappers. He hides the candy wrappers because you know he’s like sneaking the candy so that one of the two children doesn’t see and then he stashes the wrappers in the drawer.

Kathi Lipp (09:36)
I don’t know, do I?

yes.

Well, you know what? Go off, King. That’s all I have to say. Brian has lost a ton of weight. He’s gotten so healthy. Whatever candy he wants, Brian gets. So…

Tonya Kubo (09:55)
Ha ha ha ha ha!

to say it’s so funny is I’ll go to his drawer to like look for something because that’s oftentimes where we have a backup charger. I’m like, of all, I didn’t know we had peeps and there were twicks in this house and nobody told me I am not okay with this.

Kathi Lipp (10:10)
Yeah.

Yeah, right. Okay,

can I just go a little off topic? I think what I need to put out into the universe, because I have dropped this hint too many times and have been ignored by Roger Lipp, the Japanese assortment of Twix. Have you guys, you seem like the household that would have had these at some point.

Tonya Kubo (10:24)
Sure.

Mm-hmm.

yes. Yeah,

well we’ve had the Japanese assortment of Kit Kats. There’s like 40 different versions. Yeah, 40 different versions. Yes. I’m just gonna tell you right now, strawberries and champagne, hard pass. It tastes like rotten grapes. Just gonna tell you right there. I did a whole like Instagram live on it because they were so bad. So bad.

Kathi Lipp (10:45)
That’s what I meant! I’m sorry KitKat, not Twix. Yes.

really? Okay. Eww!

I had no

idea. Okay, but I want to try the rest of them. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (11:05)
The rest of them are amazing, especially

the ones that they have that you’re supposed to broil. Yes, we can talk about this after the episode.

Kathi Lipp (11:10)
What? Okay, we have, we

have real, no, people will email me. Okay, just tell me, how do you broil a Kit Kat?

Tonya Kubo (11:20)
It is a regular KitKat, but you’re supposed to like broil it and they have these in-depth instructions about what the degrees are and how long because you have to be careful because it starts to melt. But it’s I think it’s toasted marshmallow flavor. And then so you broil it to like toast it. But it ends up just being a melty mess and it’s delicious. It’s worth the mess.

Kathi Lipp (11:27)
Okay. Okay.

Okay.

Okay,

so guys if you want to know how to do that I would say go on AI or google because I I don’t know but I We need to figure this out. Okay, so you have your keep pile things you want to keep in your nightstand You have your relocate? Apparently candy wrapper. Well the next the kitkat candy wrappers go into the next day discard recycle trash old receipts anything that’s expired etc, etc and

Tonya Kubo (11:45)
Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (12:08)
Before you reload this is the time to get out the handy vac you want to go deep in there you want to get all of that cleaned out give it a good wipe let it air out a little bit and a clean slate helps you see how much space you really have and then We’re gonna we we’re going to I want you to wipe down the top, too I want you to you know, just whether you use furniture polish a Clorox wipe, whatever it is

Tonya Kubo (12:33)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:38)
Just make sure you’re starting off with a clean slate.

Tonya Kubo (12:43)
That sounds good. you know what? It’s time for us to take a little break before we get to the rest of it. But when we come back from the break, stay listening because we’re going to talk about the right furniture, the right accessories, these important things that will help you maximize your space. We’ll be right back.

Kathi Lipp (12:47)
Okay.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:02)
All right, and we are back talking right furniture, accessories, and really getting to the practical. How do you do the thing? How do you have an effective nightstand? So Kathi okay, so you’ve upgraded to the two drawer nightstand with built-in outlets. I was hoping that you would talk to us a little bit more about.

Kathi Lipp (13:18)
Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (13:24)
why you felt like that was the right solution given your current circumstances, because you already told us what you have now is actually serviceable.

Kathi Lipp (13:27)
Yeah.

It’s totally fine, but I will say I did have to put like a basket on the second layer. know, so we have a drawer up top, which is a very thin drawer and then a, just a shelf at the bottom and I had to put a basket on that. So that would be the basket I pulled out at night with like my face cream, all that kind of stuff. So we’ll talk more about that in a second, but I just wanted, I wanted to be able to close things up at night and just be done, but also,

Tonya Kubo (14:01)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:02)
Be able to see what I have and what I need and so this little tiny drawer I have it’s fine But it means everything has to be stored laying down and it just it wasn’t smooth Let me just say that it wasn’t smooth and so I I do have a really lovely solution that my my lamp is built is attached on the wall

Tonya Kubo (14:31)
Mmm. That’s nice.

Kathi Lipp (14:31)
So it doesn’t take any space up.

that’s really nice because that can take a lot of your usable space top. I just, at 57, I wanted to walk into my room and not have it be so utilitarian, but just to be lovely. If I wanted to, you know, we have wildflowers here. I want a little vase of wildflowers. I want my book to be on my nightstand.

Tonya Kubo (14:40)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:58)
I don’t want a bunch of medications, know, tissues, that kind of stuff. I want it to look lovely. And I will say one other thing I’ve done that this would not work for my friend Brian Kubo, who is trying to sneak his candy. But we have put between our nightstand and our bed, just a thin, clear, waste paper basket that, you know, so for that occasional tissue, that occasional candy wrapper, like the things we can just throw them in there and

Tonya Kubo (15:09)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (15:26)
It does help keep that space a little bit neater and tidier.

Tonya Kubo (15:31)
Yeah, well, I can imagine, you know, I know for us we have blown through charging cables because of tripping, tripping over the cord. So this sounds to me like that would solve that problem as well.

Kathi Lipp (15:37)
Mmm. Yes. Yes.

Yes, I think, you know, and the chords make, we have so many chords in our life. And I get sick of looking at chords. I mean, it’s not, is it going to disrupt my whole day? But no, to have less chords is kind of a beautiful thing.

Tonya Kubo (15:49)
Mm-hmm.

you

Yeah, and then I just want to say like on the inside drawers, we’ve talked in prior episodes about the honeycomb or box dividers. So I just think it’s important to highlight the fact that if you have drawers, we’re not necessarily saying just dump everything in there equally. There are drawer solutions in terms of organizing as well.

Kathi Lipp (16:05)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

No, no.

Yeah, I’m gonna wait till I get these drawers in my house and then I’m going to Put the dividers in that we’ve talked about, you know, these are spring-loaded so that they’ll fit in almost any drawer and The honeycomb box so I can put little things in there. But yeah, that makes it so much Everything’s standing up. You can see everything at once

Tonya Kubo (16:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so what else do you have for us?

Kathi Lipp (16:45)
Well, you I’ve told you about my night basket before, in case nobody’s heard about this before. This is just a basket I use at night. So I have things in there like I’ve got a pill organizer that, you know, there are a couple of medications I take at night. So I put those in there. I have face wipes, the Neutrogena face wipes, because I’ll just be honest, when it gets past seven o’clock,

Tonya Kubo (16:49)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:12)
If it’s a choice between me getting out of bed to wash my face or laying in bed with my Neutrogena wipes or not getting out of bed at all and going to bed to sleep, Neutrogena wipes for the win. And then I have facial cream. have neck cream. Now I do get out of bed to brush my teeth, drink my water and stuff, but every once in a while, I’ll be honest. I would say, you know, maybe once a week, maybe once every other week.

Tonya Kubo (17:15)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:42)
I’m like, I can’t even, and I know that grosses some people out. So one of the things I’ve done is I keep dental wipes in there. So, you know, they’re loaded with toothpaste and I can just, and I’ve got little tiny toothbrush and I keep my dental floss in there and it just makes my life easier. I also will take some vitamins at night. So like I keep everything in that bag. I will, I don’t know what my bag is going to look like with this new setup.

Tonya Kubo (17:49)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:10)
but I will have some kind of little bag or tote that I can pull out and have everything that I need at night. And one thing I’ve just added to it is just a little Tupperware container that has a moose treat in it. And because she comes to bed with me and I just wanna have a little routine for her at night. So it corrals all my bedtime routine into, know, steps into one place. And I am 93 % more likely to do it because I have it all together.

Tonya Kubo (18:10)
Mm-hmm.

you

Yeah, I love that. And you know what? A little bit earlier you were just saying you get sick of looking at chords. Any tips in that front?

Kathi Lipp (18:46)
Yeah.

So I would say one of things that we’ve done is and I feel like this is absolute genius. I got a multi-pronged outlet and I put Velcro on the back of the outlet and then the other Velcro on the back of my nightstand. And so I can I can take that off. I can plug everything in and then I can slap it on the back.

Tonya Kubo (18:59)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:16)
and you don’t see all those chords going crazy. just, I feel like that was kind of a genius solution. makes me super, super happy.

Tonya Kubo (19:20)
Well…

Got it. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I’m visualizing, which is why I’m talking slowly. So what about emotions? Cause you know, Kathi over in Clairefree Academy and our Facebook group, you want to believe that there’s not like it, it’s just stuff or you want to believe that something in the house doesn’t have emotion, but there’s emotional connections to everything for someone, right? So how do you address that side when it comes to the nightstand?

Kathi Lipp (19:30)
Yes.

Yeah, everything. Yes.

Yeah, I think, you know, it’s a little bit, we talked about the underwear drawer the other day and how we keep sometimes sentimental things there. If you’re going to display something on your nightstand, I think it’s an excellent place to put it. But I think what we, know, Tonya, our grandmothers and great grandmothers had trousseaux. They had, you know, a keepsake chest where they could keep all those things. And we’ve gotten away from that. And I think that each of us,

Tonya Kubo (19:57)
Mm-hmm. Yeah!

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:24)
needs a box, a place to put those things that maybe are not going to be displayed, but are still precious to us. Because if they’re in our nightstand, I don’t know about you, but I just told you all the lotions and potions I keep in my nightstand. If I’ve got a love letter from Roger, do I really want that next to my bath and body works, you know, hibiscus? No, I don’t. Let me keep that in a special place. Let

Tonya Kubo (20:29)
Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

huh.

Kathi Lipp (20:51)
So let, if you wanna keep a framed photo or something like that, that’s lovely, go for it. But if you just don’t know where else to keep it, get a box that is just for things that are important to you because we all have memories that are important to us that maybe we don’t have to keep it, but you know what? We get to keep some silly stuff. We get to keep some emotional stuff. I think that that is okay. I just want you to also think about

Tonya Kubo (21:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:21)
We talked about this in our coat closet using that as a launch pad what if you thought of your nightstand as your you nighttime shutdown area and your morning launch area So i’m gonna keep my glasses here. I’m gonna keep my phone here. I’m gonna keep my e-reader here These are the things you know, i’m charging my watch i’m keeping everything here I have a little notepad here if I want to keep notes. This is where my book goes

Tonya Kubo (21:26)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

you

Kathi Lipp (21:50)
So you have all of that that you need when you wake up in the morning and you reset it at night and it’s good to go. You you have your bottle of water. Like I put a bottle of water next to my nightstand every night and I may take a sip, a couple of sips at night, but the first thing I do when I wake up in the morning is I chug that whole bottle of water because I forget to drink water during the day.

Tonya Kubo (22:12)
Mm.

Kathi Lipp (22:15)
But if it’s right there next to my nightstand, I’m gonna chug it as soon as I get up when I’m at my thirstiest. So think of it as your lunch.

Tonya Kubo (22:24)
I love that. I love that. Okay. So nightstand as a launch pad, which I think is a powerful reframe. And Kathi just want say thank you because you are the person who is designing these episodes for practical action for our listeners. just get to show up and ask questions and be curious. It’s like my favorite thing. And listeners, I’m just grateful to you.

Kathi Lipp (22:41)
You

Tonya Kubo (22:46)
for joining us, lending us your ears and taking advantage of all of these practical tips. So we’ve covered the why, the how and the emotional side of decluttering your nightstand. Your challenge this week is going to empty the nightstand. Try Kathi’s advice of setting up the night basket, maybe invest in a pillow organizer and see how it transforms your evenings. Make sure to check out the show notes though, cause we’ve got resources there for you to all different places and a handout that goes along with this episode.

Kathi Lipp (23:13)
Mmm, you got

go ahead Tonya. I was just gonna say one other thing is that make sure that you’re regularly cleaning it out It’s easy to let silly things like a lotion sample or you know, something along those lines just Don’t don’t get in your own way when it comes to the nightstand. You don’t need to keep all that stuff I’m sorry. I stepped on you, but it just occurred to me. Yeah

Tonya Kubo (23:18)
Mm-hmm.

no, you’re all good? Well,

because maintenance is so important, right? I think we’ve done a great job of talking about how to get it to a status. And what you did was remind us that it’s worth the time to keep it there. So thank you, friends. You’ve been listening to ClutterFree Academy. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

Kathi Lipp (23:42)
It really is. Yeah.

#674 – Low Buy July: 31 Days to Your Financial Reset

Jun 17, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Freedom, Low Buy July, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo talk about why they're moving from “No Buy July” to a gentler, grace-filled “Low Buy July.” If you’ve ever felt like buying toilet paper broke the rules or you’re just exhausted by all-or-nothing...

#673 – The Dishwasher Dilemma: Secrets to a Clutter-Free Kitchen

Jun 10, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Kitchen, Organizing, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this engaging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive into the dynamic world of dishwashing, sharing secrets to establish a daily rhythm that keeps kitchen chaos at bay. Listen in as Kathi reveals her tried-and-true methods for...

#672 – From Pantry to Plate: The Secret to Smart Food Storage

Jun 3, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Foodie Friday, Home, Kitchen, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo in this episode of Clutter-Free Academy as they tackle the often overwhelming world of food storage. Whether you’re struggling with long-term pantry organization, fridge chaos, containers for on the go or finding the right containers for...

#664 – Transform Your Underwear Drawer: Tips for a Peaceful Start to Your Day

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Apr 8, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast | 0 comments

#664 – Transform Your Underwear Drawer: Tips for a Peaceful Start to Your Day

Listen Now

In this laugh-out-loud and surprisingly transformational episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep—literally—into the drawer that gets no love but causes a whole lot of frustration: your sock and underwear drawer. From chicken footprints and Sharpies to mismatched socks and holy underwear, they uncover the oddities that sneak into this tiny space—and provide the simple steps you need to bring peace and order to your most intimate drawer.

In This Episode You’ll Learn:

Why worn-out socks and too-tight undies deserve a swift exit

The magic number of pairs you really need (based on your lifestyle!)

Kathi’s favorite affordable organizing tools (spoiler: cereal boxes included)

What to do with all the random stuff hiding in your drawer

Why your underwear drawer should be the least stressful part of your day

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

Download the Free Guide:
Declutter Your Sock & Underwear Drawer Cheat Sheet – A step-by-step plan to sort, toss, and organize.

FYI: Some product links are affiliate links. If you buy, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support!

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my Clutter co-creator. Yeah, we create clutter together, but we also clean it up together. It’s Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. Okay, this is Clutter After Dark.

Tonya Kubo (00:24)

Hey, Kathi!

Kathi Lipp (00:33)

This is our most intimate episode ever. Guys, we’re talking underwear here. Can I just say, before we talk about getting into discussing, we’re talking about decluttering your underwear and sock drawer. Now, first of all, Tonya, do your underwear and sock co-mingle? Like, how are you set up?

Tonya Kubo (00:38)

Can we have

Yeah, so my underwear, socks, co-mingle.

Kathi Lipp (01:04)

Okay, okay. And when I’m saying underwear, I’m meaning all the categories, okay? So like, okay. Yeah, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (01:09)

Yeah, yeah. So like for me, it’s like camis and

like long, like long johns and stuff for when I travel to cold areas. My slips, all of that. That’s all one drawer with the socks.

Kathi Lipp (01:17)

Okay.

Okay,

there are gonna be people who are like, what are slips? I mean there really will be. That’s okay. Hey, so, but you didn’t slip, okay, nevermind. We’re gonna stop with all the puns. Yeah, my underwear, sock drawer, it’s bras, sports bras, tights, all of that kind of stuff. And they’re all very individual. But I do wanna say this. If you have never tried…

Tonya Kubo (01:25)

I know. I know. But I have a slurp.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:49)

the sports bras and underwear from Costco, may I highly suggest like I I I’ve I have converted I have converted fully and I’ll put the links down there to they’re not affiliate links. A lot of the things we do in here are affiliate links, which means hey, the clutter free people make a little bit of money off of this. So but these are not Costco doesn’t do that kind of thing. But I just love them so much. And you know what?

Tonya Kubo (01:53)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:17)

I love that I can pick up some new underwear next to my rotisserie chicken. Just makes me super happy. Okay, so if you are tired of mismatched socks, holy underwear, or random junk in your drawers, today we have got a very quick plan to fix it. We are gonna talk about matching socks, we’re gonna talk about organizers, we’re gonna throw out.

what’s worn and unloved, we’re gonna get you into shape. Because I don’t know about you, Tonya, like my first thing I do in the morning is drink coffee, and the second thing I do in the morning is get ready. So gathering up what I’m going to wear is one of my first jobs, and I don’t wanna be mad first thing in the morning. So this feels like a good launching point for us.

Tonya Kubo (02:45)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no, I agree. And so, and this is timely for me because I just went through my socks and underwear drawer. We just did a deep laundry decluttering of everybody’s clothing and such. So, but I have a feeling that your situation’s a lot different than my situation because you have fewer people and you don’t have children in the house. So tell me what was your drawer situation before you tackled it.

Kathi Lipp (03:14)

Did you? Okay.

nice.

Yeah. Yes. Right.

Okay, so I have one big giant drawer and I was trying to kind of put things into piles. So like there was a sock pile and there was an underwear pile and a miscellaneous pile. And then also let’s talk about the nonsense that was in my drawer because that’s a running theme in this podcast. So I probably would win.

Tonya Kubo (03:38)

Mm-hmm.

You

Kathi Lipp (04:01)

the award for the strangest thing kept in my underwear drawer, which was a footprint of one of my chickens who has passed. I…

Tonya Kubo (04:16)

see why you would keep it in the underwear drawer though.

Kathi Lipp (04:18)

I didn’t know what else to do with it. And so like it was one of those things where I, yeah, I just didn’t know what, I think a lot of things that we don’t know what to do with end up in that kind of drawer. Okay, do tell me.

Tonya Kubo (04:33)

I’ll make you feel a little bit better, Kathi. So in mine,

baby teeth, because where are the kids guaranteed not to look, right? They’re not going to dig through mom’s underwear. The second thing is during the pandemic, right? I couldn’t go to a salon and get pedicure. So I bought like all the salon stuff and all the extra like foot files and that thing that looks like a bar of soap, but is actually like porous that they scrub your foot with. I have one of those in my underwear drawer. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (04:38)

Yes, yes, I… Right, exaca. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yes, right?

Okay,

yes, yes.

Tonya Kubo (05:03)

Yeah.

So and then I have like just random stuff. have markers, Sharpie markers that I didn’t want Abby to get into to draw on the walls. Put them in my underwear drawer, of course. So there you go.

Kathi Lipp (05:10)

Yes.

Look,

and why do receipts end up there? That’s a good question. Receipts, phone chargers, things like that, right?

Tonya Kubo (05:20)

Yeah. Right.

Totally. Totally true. Okay. So we got a picture of your drawer and all the randomness. What was that like during your day to day life? I imagine you weren’t having to take out the chicken foot imprint every single time to get ready, but still there was probably like, I don’t know, some wasted effort.

Kathi Lipp (05:36)

No,

Okay, well, I’m admitting all my foolishness in one place, okay? So why did I have socks in there that the elastic was blown out on? I think I was just so happy that I matched the sock that I didn’t care if I actually liked the sock.

Tonya Kubo (05:58)

Right?

My college roommate used to say, if it’s washed, it has to be worn before you can get rid of it. Otherwise you wasted the effort of washing. Yeah. So any things she would like come out with like, holey underwear. And she’s like, no, I have to wear these, but as soon as I wear them, I will throw them away. And I’m like, I would throw them away now actually.

Kathi Lipp (06:10)

I totally get that.

Okay. Yes.

my goodness. Yes. Because what if you end up at the hospital with holey underwear? I’m, you know, like this is deeply embedded in me, but here’s the thing, something that I haven’t really talked with you a bunch about, you know, I have, you know this, I have a bad back and I have done a lot of strength training and everything like that. And you know, they show all these commercials for people, for shoes to put on.

you know, when it’s hard for you to bend. And for me, it’s just one side of my body. What they don’t talk about is the socks. The socks, shoes are not a problem for me. It’s the socks. And so here’s the problem. If one of my, I tend to watch, wear those no-show socks because I’m a Gen Xer. That’s what we prefer. And if one of those socks slips down while I’m in the middle of Costco,

Tonya Kubo (06:53)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:20)

It’s not going back up. Yeah, and so like those need to be gone friend. Those need to be gone. Yeah, it’s my secret chain. Okay, so it was frustrating. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (07:20)

yeah, yeah.

Okay, it was frustrating.

But you’re on the other side, Kathi You are teaching us from the other side. So, and what I love about the series that we’ve been talking about, where we’re tackling these small spaces, is your solutions are just simple and yet with high impact. So tell me where you got started with your underwear and socks drawer.

Kathi Lipp (07:37)

I am.

Yes.

Okay, removing all the single socks. Like, okay, why are single socks there? I think what I thought was, well, when I find the other single sock, I will go back there. What I finally did is I just have a bag with single socks, and after a little while, like, I’ll gather all of them up, and I’ll say, these have been in here for three months. Now, if I don’t find them in the next go around, they need to be thrown away. But also, throwing away socks where

Tonya Kubo (08:16)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:26)

The elastic is blown out on them. They’re not the ones I like. They feel funny on my feet. Now, let me also say, when I was a single mom, it didn’t matter if they felt funny on my feet. I was keeping them because I was broke, right? But can we all agree if your underwear is falling down, it’s time to throw it away. If it’s cutting off your circulation or something like that.

Tonya Kubo (08:30)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Kathi Lipp (08:56)

I need you to throw those things away because that’s not how we should be living. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (09:00)

Exactly. Well, I would say if

anything that is supposed to be contained is falling out, you deserve to throw them away.

Kathi Lipp (09:07)

Exactly and let me also say with those single socks. I finally just realized I need to keep those in The laundry room so when I’m done folding laundry if there’s a sock left over I can put that where the other socks go instead of having to do a sock scavenger hunt before I try matching things up

Tonya Kubo (09:16)

Mmm.

Right?

Okay, so you had one spot for your random socks. You talked about getting rid of your worn out unwanted items, right? So the socks that slipped down, the undies that just have lost their containment factor. So once you get rid of all the bad stuff, then what?

Kathi Lipp (09:34)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

They’re not doing it anymore. Yes, exactly.

I’ll also say on the underwear anything you’d be embarrassed to show up at the hospital with you know let’s just go ahead and say you know Stains you know things like that whatever you need to do. Just be done with it. Okay, so now what I’ve done is I’ve used a couple of organizational solutions, so I Don’t know it’s called a honeycomb organizer and Okay, so it is

Tonya Kubo (10:02)

Mm-hmm.

I have no idea what that is. Talk to me, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (10:21)

You put it down in your and I’ll link all of this in our show notes so you can see what I’m talking about. But it’s got like a bunch of little squares. They’re more like trying like diamonds that when you undo this and you can put a pair of socks in there or you can put a pair of underwear in there. So it’s not just a giant pile, but you can see everything you have. And for me,

Tonya Kubo (10:35)

Got it.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:50)

And I think for a lot of people who struggle with clutter, when things are hidden, they’re no longer used. And so this says, no, this is what you have and you can go, I just love going to my drawer and plucking out that orange pair of no-show socks. Nobody’s gonna see them, but I know that they’re there and it makes me so happy. And I can see everything I have. And then I have some small fabric boxes for things like bras or sports bras.

Tonya Kubo (10:55)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (11:18)

tights, underwear, things like that. It just is a way of being able to see everything. Now, I’ve ordered those off of Amazon, but if you are, you know, if money is a struggle right now, which it is for a lot of people, could you use a shoe box? Could you use a tiny shoe box for little kids? At one point in my life, I use cereal boxes for organization. just…

Tonya Kubo (11:47)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:48)

I

had to because I had no money. So those are things you could use. So try using multiple smaller boxes with out lids and that can really help you keep organized in some of, it’s just a drawer divider that will get you to the next step.

Tonya Kubo (12:05)

Ooh, okay, well I am excited because we are going to go on a break, but when we come back, you’re actually going to answer probably one of the most often questions, often asked questions that we get in Clutterfree Academy, which is how many pairs do you actually need? Seriously, Kathi, that question comes up all the time. Plus you are going to tell us what to do with those items that don’t belong. We’ll be right back.

Kathi Lipp (12:08)

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:32)

All right, we are back Kathi and you are going to tell us the secrets of the universe as it relates to underwear and socks drawers. How do we figure out how many pairs of socks and underwear we really need?

Kathi Lipp (12:37)

Yeah

I think the first thing you have to figure out is how often do you do laundry? Because if you’re doing laundry just once a week, figure out how many pairs of underwear, how many pairs of socks you wear in a week. And I would say add two or three, right? Because you want to be able, but if you’re doing laundry multiple times a week, you probably don’t need as many. Maybe you just need divide by two, add three.

Tonya Kubo (12:52)

Hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:17)

So I think really using your scientific method here and saying, what do I actually use? And if you’re like, I don’t know, that doesn’t feel like enough, that feels weird, that feels scary, then what I’ll suggest you do is put in the amount that feels comfortable in that space. So maybe eight pairs of underwear feels good in that space. Do you ever run out?

Tonya Kubo (13:17)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:44)

That’s a great question. Do I ever run out of that space? I tried to dial back to eight. It didn’t really work for me because sometimes I’m wearing more than a pair in a day. know, sometimes when I’m changing for bed, like whatever, everybody has their own routine. So you have to figure out what actually works for you. And I think that that’s okay to do. I also have different kinds of socks. I have the no-show socks and then I have the socks I wear in the snow.

Tonya Kubo (13:45)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (14:12)

So eight pairs of socks is not going to be enough. When it’s cold outside, I need more heftier socks. So you just have to apply a little bit of the scientific method. One thing that really helped me figure this out though, Tonya, was when I, in addition to that honeycomb organizer I talked about and the different little boxes, I put drawer dividers in my drawers.

Tonya Kubo (14:20)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:41)

These are spring loaded so that they fit the short ways in your drawer. So I have now a section for underwear, a section for sports bras, a section for regular bras. It’s like putting drawer dividers in there so that you can section out your space. And that really said, this is how much space I actually have.

Tonya Kubo (14:41)

you

Okay.

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Kathi Lipp (15:07)

for my bras. This is actually how much space I have for my slips or tights or whatever it is. And that really helped me out.

Tonya Kubo (15:08)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

I love that. I love that. And I think that, you you brought up some good points about not just laundry schedule, but also habit. For instance, like when I used to, I used to work out six days a week, not the life I currently live, but I would like there was the workout underwear that served a certain purpose. There was the day to day underwear that served a certain purpose. So that was a time in my life when I needed a lot more than I need now. But I love that idea of combining

Kathi Lipp (15:26)

Yeah. Okay.

Yes, right, yes.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (15:43)

the physical space that you have to fit the things with the laundry schedule. I think that’s really powerful.

Kathi Lipp (15:46)

Yes.

And Tonya, we are not minimalists, but we are minimal-ish. We are always determining what is the least amount of an item that I could live with that still serves its purpose. Minimalists might say, no, I’m going to arrange my life around only having

Tonya Kubo (15:53)

No.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:16)

you know, five pairs of socks. No, we’re going to arrange our socks out of our minimal need that we actually have.

Tonya Kubo (16:17)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, like when we were just going through our stuff, you know, I settled on 13 pairs of underwear. Why? Because I just, because actually it was like, these are my favorite, like these are my favorites, right? And then I made an Amazon mistake, which I’m just sharing with our listeners in case they make the mistake. So sometimes on Amazon, you think you’re ordering one thing and it come to find out you are ordering a package of multiple things. And so I had wanted to get some of those long boxer shorts.

Kathi Lipp (16:31)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yes! Yes!

Yes. Right.

Tonya Kubo (16:55)

to wear underneath dresses. And I wanted a black pair and a white pair and I accidentally ordered packages of eight pairs each.

Kathi Lipp (17:04)

Wow, fancy you.

Tonya Kubo (17:07)

fancy me with my 16 pairs of long boxer shorts that roll all the way up to your hip if you try to wear them underneath jeans. So I just decided that, you know, the 10 or so pairs that did not get worn at all did not need to be with me at all. And Brian was very happy. I think I have my own section of the donation center at this point, but. Right.

Kathi Lipp (17:10)

Right.

that’s so funny.

Right?

I love that. I love that

so much. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (17:35)

So I just want

to share, since we are sharing some Amazon links in the show notes, I just want to let you all know that you should pay attention to both the quantity and also the unit items inside the quantity that you’re purchasing.

Kathi Lipp (17:43)

It’s so true. It’s so true,

absolutely.

Tonya Kubo (17:49)

Okay, so Kathi, talk to me about brands. Because you mentioned like there’s some no-show socks that you particularly like. You like the Costco underwear. But at some point, you were using something else. How do you fit like the whole brands I love versus maybe I spent good money on this? You know the thing.

Kathi Lipp (17:56)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Okay. So my whole life has been, I spent good money on this. I need to wear it as a punishment. One of my favorite discoveries this year is the Wirecutter show. I’ve talked to you about this before. It is the New York Times Wirecutter where they do their product recommendations and they do extensive testing. One of my favorite things that we just bought, Tonya, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (18:11)

Right.

Mmm, yes, yes.

Kathi Lipp (18:36)

My life has changed, we just got a new mattress. And which is a very expensive purchase, right? Now it’s not their most expensive purchase, which by the way, they don’t recommend because they’re not crazy, but it’s a $75,000 mattress that Martha Stewart, but their product tester did sleep on it for six months to say, is this really worth it? Just to make sure.

Tonya Kubo (18:40)

Whoa.

Yeah.

just to make sure it wasn’t worth $75,000,

I’m sure.

Kathi Lipp (19:03)

Right,

she sacrificed, she goes, if I could, I would buy it, but that’s not how I’m choosing to spend my money. So I really listened and that’s how I found out about the Costco underwear, you know, and they like to recommend, hey, if you’re a normal person, this is a decent price to spend to get this decent thing. Well, you know, I’ve owned two pairs of Bamba socks in my life and I love a Bamba sock.

Tonya Kubo (19:09)

Hahaha

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:31)

But you know what, I kept on thinking I could get the same effect with these Costco brands. Now in the Costco underwear, yes, I’m getting great results. The socks, maybe it’s because I have size 11 feet, I don’t know. They’re just not the same. Can I just tell you I doubled down and I got an eight pack of Bamba socks. And I need to wear those until Jesus comes back.

Tonya Kubo (19:46)

Mm-hmm.

Go you!

Kathi Lipp (20:00)

But you know what, here’s the thing. I have bought so many pairs of socks cheaping out and they’re the ones that, you know, when I talk about rolling down my feet, Bombas has never done that to me. They’ve always treated me right. So I think if there’s a brand you love and you’re going to invest in it, then follow the directions on how to wash and dry them.

Tonya Kubo (20:03)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:27)

You know, figure out what’s gonna keep them the brand you love and stick with those brands you love. And if you’ve never tried a bomba sock before, I’ll give you a link, because man, they are just the best. I love them so much, yeah. And you can get a discount code too. So we’ll share those.

Tonya Kubo (20:46)

Okay, well, so we talked a little bit earlier about the weird stuff in the drawers. What’d you do with your weird stuff and how do we prevent just wedging any old thing in our underwear and socks drawer?

Kathi Lipp (20:50)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

So like what I just talked about with the bombas, you want to go to your drawer and everything in there is something that you use and you love and would buy again. The chicken footprint, maybe not. Maybe not. So do you have a place that things that are meaningful to you, but they don’t really have a place in your life?

Tonya Kubo (21:07)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:23)

So one of the things I have committed to myself to do is I’m gonna display that footprint. I’m gonna find a place in the house for it. And it doesn’t have to be, it doesn’t have to be a big place on my wall. It could just be something that I love. Other things that I found in there. Sometimes I put things in there because I can’t decide. And if I can’t decide and I haven’t used it in this long, like I got these.

Tonya Kubo (21:29)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (21:52)

Like I don’t even know how to describe them. They’re like they smell good. They’re supposed to be atomizers, but I don’t really know how I don’t know. They’re weird. I have never used them. I’m just going to throw them away and it’s okay. So only keep things in there that are meant for that drawer. Do you have a box you could put things in? Like these are meaningful to me, but I don’t have a place for them right now. It’s okay to have some precious memory places in your life.

Tonya Kubo (22:03)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and you know, as we wrap up sort of this discussion on the underwear and sock drawer, you know, we’ve talked about in some cases, you’ve got like seasonality that you need to think about. I think for most of us, socks and underwear aren’t seasonal. I know for me, I do have four pairs of like really thick socks that I’ll wear with boots versus my thinner summer socks. But I think you can just honestly tuck them into the back corner of the drawer or just get a small bin if you need to. Would you do anything different?

Kathi Lipp (22:30)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, right.

Nope, you know, the only thing I do differently is I do have fall boxes that we put upstairs and sometimes I’ll put some of those things in there because I know I’m not going to need them before fall. But you know, we’ve got a weird situation here.

Tonya Kubo (23:03)

Yeah. So, okay. So this wraps up our steps that we have gone through socks and underwear drawer. I don’t think we’ve ever spent quite so much time discussing such tiny aspects of clothing, but hey, this is an important thing. I’m curious though, Kathi, socks and underwear, it feels like it can get out of hand easily. How do you keep it tidy once you’re happy with how it is?

Kathi Lipp (23:14)

Yes? Yeah.

Just keep going back to that drawer and saying, does this make me happy? And if you have kids that you’re working with them on that drawer, like are you actually wearing these things that are in the back corner? Look at the bottom of the drawer. Are the things that are never getting daylight? Not that your socks and underwear should get too much daylight. But if they’re not going through the laundry on a regular basis, it may be time to just say, you know what, we don’t need these anymore.

And that’s okay, that’s okay. That’s why I really suggest getting brands you love so that you’re not re-buying mistake after mistake, because I’ve done that. I’ve wasted a lot of money doing that instead of just buying what I love, because I want to go to that drawer and feel like everything in here is something that I’m happy to wear.

Tonya Kubo (24:16)

I love that. Okay. Absolute mic drop right there. Everything is something that you’re happy to wear. Now listeners, you want to check our show notes because we have a simple downloadable guide for transforming that old sock and underwear drawer into a tidy functional space, following the tips that Kathi shared today. And we’ve got links to all the cool stuff that she mentioned, the Bamba socks, the Costco undies. I don’t know what else, but I’m sure, the honeycomb organizer. I almost forgot about that, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (24:43)

Yes, yes,

very important.

Tonya Kubo (24:46)

And

we cannot wait to hear from you next time. Now, Kathi, thank you so much for breaking this down, spending the amount of time that you have in helping us really make sense of this small but important to function space. Any other things you want to add before we close off?

Kathi Lipp (25:02)

Yes.

And we have all been in that broke place where we’re just happy to have any underwear. And I also want you to curate your life. I want your underwear drawer to be the least stressful part of your day. That’s my goal with this podcast.

Tonya Kubo (25:26)

I love that. I love that. Okay. Well, you have been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I am Tonya Kubo with Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#674 – Low Buy July: 31 Days to Your Financial Reset

Jun 17, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Freedom, Low Buy July, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo talk about why they're moving from “No Buy July” to a gentler, grace-filled “Low Buy July.” If you’ve ever felt like buying toilet paper broke the rules or you’re just exhausted by all-or-nothing...

#673 – The Dishwasher Dilemma: Secrets to a Clutter-Free Kitchen

Jun 10, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Kitchen, Organizing, Podcast, tips and ideas

In this engaging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive into the dynamic world of dishwashing, sharing secrets to establish a daily rhythm that keeps kitchen chaos at bay. Listen in as Kathi reveals her tried-and-true methods for...

#672 – From Pantry to Plate: The Secret to Smart Food Storage

Jun 3, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Foodie Friday, Home, Kitchen, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo in this episode of Clutter-Free Academy as they tackle the often overwhelming world of food storage. Whether you’re struggling with long-term pantry organization, fridge chaos, containers for on the go or finding the right containers for...

#663 – Coat Closet Decluttering Secrets: A Step-by-Step Guide

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Apr 1, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast | 0 comments

#663 – Coat Closet Decluttering Secrets: A Step-by-Step Guide

Listen Now

In this Clutter-Free Academy episode, Kathi Lipp teams up with her favorite clutter co-conspirator, Tonya Kubo, to address a common household nemesis: the overflowing coat closet. Perfect for those with or without a traditional coat closet, Kathi and Tonya share innovative tips and strategies to transform any space into a functional launch pad for daily success.

Listeners will discover the surprising power of matching hangers and learn how to repurpose their coat closet space with hanging bins, command hooks, and even a USB rechargeable light for those darker nooks and crannies. In addition, Kathi and Tonya delve into the emotional connections tied to clothing and how to overcome them in order to achieve a streamlined, organized coat closet.

Whether you’re tackling seasonal rotations or maintaining a tidy launch pad, this episode is packed with actionable advice to help you maintain a clutter-free lifestyle all year round. Plus, be sure to check out the downloadable resource and join the conversation in our Clutter Free Academy and Clutter Free for Life communities!

Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps every day to live with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my favorite Clutter co-conspirator. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. okay. It’s time for us to come out of the closet on this one. Do you have a coat closet? Okay, see, easy. Your solution is here.

Tonya Kubo (00:23)

Hey, Kathi.

No.

My whole house

has two closets. That’s it.

Kathi Lipp (00:40)

I Tonya I don’t even know I can’t oh my goodness you know what you

Tonya Kubo (00:45)

It’s okay. It’s okay.

I wish I had a coat closet. Not gonna lie.

Kathi Lipp (00:51)

You’ve made your house work without a coat closet. Okay, so let’s talk about this in some generalities. We have a coat closet. I don’t know if you remember what that coat closet looks like, but it did not come with the house. It’s a built-in. So it’s very different kind of situation that doesn’t work for everybody, but it’s really helped us.

Tonya Kubo (00:59)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm. Yes!

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:20)

Can I just say our coat closet can become a catchall? And yeah, it’s not great. And so I want to talk coat closets today. I think a lot of listeners will identify this, that I have spent many years avoiding opening my coat closet, afraid that random stuff is going to fall out. But today we are going to share a game plan to fix that.

Tonya Kubo (01:49)

Oooooh! I like a good game plan even if it doesn’t apply to my specific situation.

Kathi Lipp (01:50)

Yes.

It’s a big promise, I’m not gonna lie. You know what, and if you don’t have a coat closet like Tonya, think of this maybe as what is your launch pad? What is the launch pad for getting out of the house? Because we all have to have that. So this is not going to directly impact you, but this may give you some ideas.

Tonya Kubo (02:05)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so you mentioned that your coat closet got a little scary. So why don’t you start us off with like, were the biggest challenges that you were facing before you got on top of it?

Kathi Lipp (02:29)

Okay, so can we, is there a word that’s multi-seasonality? okay, I just made, yeah, I get to make up words. I love that so much. So what the problem was is there were too many things living in that closet at the same time. You know, we had not only, granted, where we live, we need to keep some different things in our coat closet.

Tonya Kubo (02:36)

You just made it up, Kathi. That’s okay. You are an author. You are allowed to make up words as much as you want.

Hmm. Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:59)

Like a lot of our listeners do live in snow country, so they may need to keep a snow scraper in that coat closet. Most of our listeners don’t need to keep bear spray in there. But you know.

Tonya Kubo (03:08)

I was just gonna

say, but in your coat closet you have to keep bear spray and pain reliever.

Kathi Lipp (03:13)

We do.

And pain reliever, have some different drawers that we’ll talk about in a different episode. But the major coat area, you know, we were keeping our spring coats in there and, you know, that little summer jacket and the big heavy winter coat. There was just, there was a lot going on and it was just a great place to stash stuff. And yeah, it got a little…

Tonya Kubo (03:19)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (03:41)

It was out of control, we couldn’t find things. Things were not there when they needed to be and their coats sometimes got jammed in because we ran out of hangers. Random items on the base of it. Just, I mean, no real system, no real system.

Tonya Kubo (04:00)

Yeah, well, it sounds like it had quite the impact on just the day to day life, right? Like just it takes more time to do things when you have to like devote time to digging through.

Kathi Lipp (04:05)

Yeah.

Why do we own seven hats if we can’t find one when we need to leave the house? Like these are, yeah. Or why do we need six dog leashes if there’s never anywhere they’re supposed to be? And it wasn’t that it made me late for stuff, you know, because anywhere I’m going, it’s gonna take an hour and a half. So I left plenty of times. But we would forget stuff all the time because, you know, what was hidden was forgotten.

Tonya Kubo (04:15)

Or the right one.

Mm-hmm.

Right. So can you walk us through sort of what was the first move there?

Kathi Lipp (04:47)

Okay, so I’m not normally a big fan of this, especially for large areas, but for this coat closet, I will recommend pulling at least categories out at all at once. So things like pulling out all the coats, or maybe pulling out all the scarves, or hats, or things like that.

Tonya Kubo (04:56)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:15)

And then really deciding what did we actually need? Do I actually wear this coat? If not, it got donated. Donating good things, things in good condition. We didn’t have a lot of stuff that was in bad condition, but if it was rarely worn, one question was, okay, maybe I only wear this once a year. I have a fancy coat, okay? I have a.

Tonya Kubo (05:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:43)

It’s not fancy, but it’s a nice coat. got it for a business trip in Chicago. I rarely wear it. Does that need to be in the front hall closet? I consider that prime real estate. So I just decided to keep that in my bedroom closet and I could pull it out when I needed it. So it’s really curating what we needed in each category. Why do I have seven beanies?

Tonya Kubo (05:50)

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:13)

I don’t know, because they were, I don’t know. Yeah, maybe somebody gave me one. Let’s be honest, they were on sale at Costco. Let’s just be honest. So there were things like that, but I don’t need all of those. So the first thing really was removing those extra coats. You asked me what the first step was, it was removing extra coats and things that just didn’t need to be there.

Tonya Kubo (06:14)

I was gonna say, why did you have seven meetings? mean, no judgment, just curious.

Right.

Okay and then what came after that do you think?

Kathi Lipp (06:45)

So that’s when we, I don’t know about you, Tonya, but there was just so much nonsense, so much nonsense. Like why were tools in there? Explain to, why? I don’t know. I think, just for now, it’s so true, it’s so true. And then why was there mail in there? Like that’s not where the mail goes.

Tonya Kubo (06:58)

Well, cause you put it there just for now until you decide where you really want it, right?

no, no, I understand. I will explain why there was mail there. Because you came inside the house and you had the mail in your hand and you had your coat on. And so you put the mail down so that you can take off your coat. But while you’re taking off your coat, another idea entered your brain. And so you pivoted around and you went to go take action on that other idea, completely forgetting.

Kathi Lipp (07:13)

Okay, please tell me.

Yes, yes, yeah.

Yes.

Go.

Tonya Kubo (07:36)

that your mail is inside the coat closet. The same thing is also what happens to your remote control. Mine’s usually in the fridge.

Kathi Lipp (07:42)

my goodness. my goodness. Okay, I’ve never done that. That’s impressive. I have to say. Ours gets lost in the bed sheets all the time. And then in the middle of the night, we’re like, why? Why did friends just pop on? Because Moose was walking across the bed. Yes. Okay, we each house has its own problems, right? Yeah. So to really decide, like each space in your house has to have its own purpose. And so I need

Tonya Kubo (07:47)

all the time.

You

No.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:10)

It’s okay for me to put the mail on the front table as long as I’m putting the mail the same place each time and the coat closet is probably not it.

Tonya Kubo (08:15)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, the coat closet’s not it because a coat closet has a door. You will never see the mail again. That’s just what happens. Okay, so, you know, I hesitate to ask this question because I think some people are gonna roll their eyes and go, gee whiz, Tonya, it’s a coat closet. You can’t have emotional connections to your coats. But I happen to know that our listeners and our community members who are over in Clutterfree Academy and Clutterfree for Life struggle with emotional connections.

Kathi Lipp (08:25)

Yes, exactly. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (08:51)

to items that other people don’t understand. So I’m curious, was there any of that as you were going through your coat closet, anything where you felt emotionally connected to having it there or where you really felt strongly about needing it to be there just in case something were to happen?

Kathi Lipp (09:08)

Okay, so not this version of the coat closet, but I will talk about the version we had at our house in San Jose and That was the army green jacket that I had in Japan and You know what? Okay, so Some of the best memories I had in my life before I married Roger Happened in that army green jacket now. I will also say

Tonya Kubo (09:15)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:37)

I did not wear that same size army green jacket for a very long, pretty much my whole first marriage and much of my second marriage, but I couldn’t get rid of it. And so what finally made me get rid of it, this is so embarrassing. I had some dog treats in it apparently, and we had a little bit of an infestation at our house. And yeah.

Tonya Kubo (09:46)

Yeah.

Hmm.

yeah, that happens.

Kathi Lipp (10:05)

And so we had to get rid of the jacket. yeah, it hung in my house without being used for years and years and years. And what I wish I would have done was give it to somebody. Because there’s some kid, some emo kid would have loved that jacket. I could have given it to Lily at some point, right? Yes, yes.

Tonya Kubo (10:16)

Yeah.

Yes, yes!

You totally could have given it to Lilly. You totally could have.

Because she was definitely in an army green phase before she was in her black on black phase, which is where we’re at right now.

Kathi Lipp (10:33)

Yes, and

we all have some of those things that it’s like, okay, I’ll get back into it. Or you know what, maybe somebody will come visit me at the house and they need an army green jacket. know, like, these are all things. And when you have chaos like that, you don’t use the stuff that you have. It’s really, we stash things in there because we’re thinking we’ll deal with it later. Like you said earlier,

Tonya Kubo (10:46)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (11:01)

But today, let’s all handle that. Let’s handle our business, Tonya. Let’s, yeah, yes.

Tonya Kubo (11:05)

Yeah, let’s handle the business for the here and now as

it comes. So, okay, we’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, you are gonna talk to us about matching hangers. I’m very curious about hearing more of this. Hanging bins and more. All right, so we’ll see you after the break.

Kathi Lipp (11:18)

Yes, okay. Yes, yes.

Tonya Kubo (11:26)

All right, well, welcome back. So Kathi, I can’t remember if I heard this on a Facebook live you did or if it was something you did in our membership community, but I have heard you in the past say that matching hangers can transform the look of any space that has hangers instantly. I need you to tell me more about

Kathi Lipp (11:34)

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so you said in our last podcast episode that you think every space in our house could potentially be one that brings us joy when we go there. And can I tell you one of the cheat codes to joy is matching hangers. And here’s what I love about that. And it doesn’t have to be expensive hangers. I will tell you for my personal closet upstairs, I have those thin black.

Tonya Kubo (11:57)

Mm-hmm.

I believe that.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:16)

Velvet hangers the joy hangers Roger hates those with a fiery passion Okay, is it because they are Superman and they feel like they have to get dressed very quickly and the velvet slows them down Is it a textural issue? What is it for these guys? Okay, I Like them like that. Yes. Yes in our one of our guest rooms. We have matching

Tonya Kubo (12:17)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brian feels the same way. I love mine.

Brian says they’re too thin. That’s why I like them. I like them because they’re so thin.

Kathi Lipp (12:43)

red plastic hangers. They’re not fancy, but they get the job done. But in my coat closet, we have, and I’ve got a link to them. They’re just wood hangers. They’re not crazy expensive, but they look so nice. And here’s a couple of reasons why I like them. One, the hangers go back to the closet they’re supposed to go to. Can I say that again? The hangers go back to the closet they’re supposed to.

Tonya Kubo (12:44)

Mm-hmm.

you

Kathi Lipp (13:12)

So Roger doesn’t have wood hangers hanging out in his closet. I don’t have white plastic hangers from his closet hanging out in mine. And it curates your closet. If you have 12 hangers in your closet, maybe that’s eight for your coats and then four for guests. That’s plenty. That’s what we need. And there are only two people living in my house. Your house, but it also makes it look put together. It’s a very simple way.

Tonya Kubo (13:31)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (13:41)

for it to visually come together very, very quickly. I love them. And it prevents coat pileups, know, those hangers that, you know, they just make me want to keep the space looking good.

Tonya Kubo (13:54)

Yeah, yeah, I could see that. Well, and especially, like I can even see an application just household wide if everybody had their own like designated hanger, then you’re putting laundry away. It’s very easy to pick out whose stuff is whose. So I really like that idea. So, okay. So, but there’s some things I think that go in coat closets. I say I think because I currently don’t have one, but I used to have one.

Kathi Lipp (14:03)

Yeah. Right.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Yes. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (14:18)

that don’t go on hangers, hats,

gloves, grocery bags. I mean, it depends on what you do, right? What do you do about that stuff?

Kathi Lipp (14:23)

Yeah.

Yes. Okay,

I’m gonna give you the best solution. I got these hanging baskets. They’re three tiers of hanging baskets. They hook on just like a hanger. So it’s got two hooks and it takes up a little bit of space, but we have one for gloves. We have one for scarves. We’ve got one for those grocery bags. I want you to think about it like this.

Tonya Kubo (14:37)

Okay?

Kathi Lipp (14:51)

What do I need to launch when I go out of the house? And if I open that coat closet, mine has two doors. That’s why if you’re watching the video here on YouTube, you will see me opening with two doors. But if you have those spaces, you can just open up and say, here’s everything I need to leave the house. And so having those hanging bins,

Tonya Kubo (14:57)

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (15:17)

gives you things like, we have one for all of our moose supplies, know, so those, you know, poop bags and leashes and collars and things like that, reusable bags, bear spray, like there’s a space for everything. So nothing is on the bottom floor of that coat closet that you don’t want to be there.

Tonya Kubo (15:21)

Mm-hmm.

Great, okay, so you are always so good. This is the problem when we reverse roles is Kathi, you are always so good at counting us out and I have not been counting us out. So when it comes to decluttering the coat closet, so step one was you got rid of the coats you no longer wear. Step two was you don’t advocate this normally, but in the case of a small space like a coat closet, pulling everything out that doesn’t belong and then going through it and only putting the stuff back that makes sense. And then.

Kathi Lipp (15:50)

Yeah, that’s okay.

Yes.

Right. Right.

Tonya Kubo (16:09)

For step three, we talked about the matching hangers and just how that just feels good to look at. And then step four is hanging bins for the small items, the hats, the gloves, the grocery bags, bear spray in your case. All right, take me to step five.

Kathi Lipp (16:13)

Mm-hmm.

It feels great.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so we like to have in our coat closet our car keys wallets purses and Yeah, we’re putting a lot in that coat closet so I want to be able to see what I have and we we introduced the USB rechargeable light that you can put in by a magnet This is another great place for it if your coat closet doesn’t already have a light

Tonya Kubo (16:44)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:58)

Or maybe your coat closet is in a hall where there’s a light outside the hall, but there’s not one inside. May I highly suggest, and we’ll put it again in the show notes, this USB light that is just installed with a magnet. You don’t need to rewire anything. It will give you, you can see into every nook and cranny. But the other magical thing in here, the thing I cannot live without, command hooks. I love.

Tonya Kubo (17:24)

yes, we like those at our house

too.

Kathi Lipp (17:26)

Yes,

I love a good command hook. So I use a command hook. I personally, I do have a bunch of different purses for different activities. I like a good handbag, but my wallet is on a loop. And so I can just hang my wallet on a command hook. We can hang all of our keys on a command hook. You can also put, if you want to do,

Tonya Kubo (17:36)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:54)

like your grocery shopping bags. If you don’t wanna put them into one of those hanging bins, you could put those on a command hook. You can use those for a million different things and they just make your life so, so much better. Dog leash, other small items, you use accordingly.

Tonya Kubo (18:02)

Mmm.

Yeah, and so with the command hooks, you and we’ll link to those in the show notes as well. Those are nice because they attach with adhesive in most cases. And so you don’t have to worry about making holes anywhere or like, I don’t know, but if I have to put a screw or a nail in something suddenly that feels like home improvement and I’m not all about that life.

Kathi Lipp (18:23)

Yes.

Yes, right.

It’s a different level. What we’re talking about here, everything that we’ve shared about is A level. Or is it D, you know, is it F level? Let’s say it’s F level and A level is redoing your bathroom. No, we’re talking about stickers and hooks. That’s what we’re talking about here. Magnets, yes.

Tonya Kubo (18:37)

Yeah.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and so Kathi, you are the person who taught me about seasonal stuff, right? Because I grew up in a studio apartment with my mom, I’m used to everything being in one space all at the same time. But the last episode, we were talking a little bit about seasonal stuff, and we’re talking about seasonal stuff now with the coat closet especially. How do you rotate things or do you?

Kathi Lipp (19:05)

Right.

Right. Right.

Yeah.

And, Tonya, let’s also say you grew up in central California, where the seasons are not quite as different as they are in Minnesota. Right, exactly. And broiling hot, yes. So, yes, but living up here, I have definitely learned about seasonality. And so we just have a little space in our garage for out of season. So the same bin is either

Tonya Kubo (19:28)

Cold, not cold. That’s all we got.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:49)

summer or winter right now because we’re recording this in February, it’s going out in March. We have all of our bug spray, our sunscreen, all of that kind of stuff out in our garage in a bin and inside we have our scarves, our gloves, our ice scraper, that kind of thing. So think of your coat closet or your launch pad, whatever it is.

Tonya Kubo (20:11)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:16)

as one of the most valuable pieces of real estate in your house. And when you redo this, keep everything out of there that you are not potentially going to use in the next week or so. So like right now, I don’t have my summer jacket hanging in there. Yeah, and so just what I could open up and say, you know what? I have a purpose for almost everything in here in the next couple of weeks.

Tonya Kubo (20:30)

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay, one more question, Kathi. What about the floor? Because I know some people have a strict, like, nothing goes on the floor rule in a closet. I know that you happen to be a space maximizer, so I have a feeling that you’ve got some solutions there.

Kathi Lipp (20:47)

Yes. Yeah.

Right.

Guess.

So here’s what I would say with that is that, you know, if I leave room for things like when my kids had backpacks for school, or if you have a folding grocery cart, if you live in a really urban area, you probably have a folding grocery cart that needs to go somewhere. Or do you have a bag of library books that need to be returned? You know, what?

Tonya Kubo (21:12)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:30)

whatever I grab on my way out, I also, if I was going to work every day, I might have my computer backpack there. Right now, those things are probably existing in your living space because on the floor of your coat closet is nonsense because that’s what was on the floor of my coat closet. So, you know,

Tonya Kubo (21:39)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:59)

So what I personally have on the floor of my coat closet, and my coat closet isn’t like a full length thing, it’s a half length thing, but I have cooler bags because when we go to town, I’m going to use a Costco cooler, at least in the winter, to put in my fresh meat and stuff. In the summer, we’re bringing our Yeti. Like that’s a different thing. But…

Tonya Kubo (22:19)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (22:23)

What do you actually use and need to be there? It should not be long-term storage for things you don’t touch all year. It’s things that you actually use. And if your kids could put their backpacks there, if you could put your work backpack there, I think that’s a great use of space.

Tonya Kubo (22:30)

Yeah.

Okay, and so now we get to the part where we’ve got to talk about the nemesis of all of our cluttery peeps. We’ve got the coat closet all beautifully decluttered, organized. How do we keep it from getting junked up again?

Kathi Lipp (22:45)

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Yeah, so when you bring new items in, remove something old. You know, the one in, one out. You know, when you think about coats, we probably don’t need 40, okay? Roger and I both need a nice coat. Think church or going out to dinner. An everyday winter coat, an everyday lighter coat, and a raincoat. If I get a new coat, I get rid of an old one.

Tonya Kubo (23:11)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (23:23)

Now, you may have more coat needs, that’s okay. But do you have 20 coat needs? And do they all need to be in that coat closet space? What if you picked the three or four coats that you use most of the time and use that? And then also, as you’re changing things over from winter to summer, just clear it out.

Tonya Kubo (23:24)

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (23:52)

Do I need to get rid of more coats? Do I need to get rid of some of these scarves? The other thing is, do you need seven scarves? Do you need 12 beanies? Do you need all of those mittens and gloves? Think about what do you actually use and what do you actually need? That’s the maintenance you need to do. And can I tell you, once you get this set up, your maintenance is gonna be so minimal. It’s gonna take five minutes.

Tonya Kubo (24:18)

Well, I was gonna say like maximum would be about 20 minutes a week, right? Like five minutes a day. If you can just do a quick swipe through, especially during the times of year where your coat closet is in more heavy use.

Kathi Lipp (24:22)

Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

Right, absolutely.

Tonya Kubo (24:33)

my goodness, Kathi, thank you so much. These have been great tips. I especially appreciate all the resources that we’re going to have available in the show notes, mainly because that’s how I access them after the episodes as well. Like I probably use our website more often than anybody else around here. Any final thoughts, encouragement, tips that you would give to our listeners?

Kathi Lipp (24:40)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

I love it.

How do you want to start your day? If your coat closet could be your launch pad to say, this is where my keys are. This is where, maybe you keep your lunch bag there after work or something like that. But how do I want to approach my day each day? Do I want to be able to find things in there easily? Do I want to be able to know where my coat is?

I think the reason that we don’t use our coat closets so much is because they’re filled with nonsense. At least that’s why I wasn’t using it. Instead of thinking, you know what, this is a tucked away space for things that I use every single day. Your space should be stuff that you use at least five out of seven days a week. So if you think about it that way, it’s really going to curate what belongs in that space and what doesn’t.

Tonya Kubo (25:28)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

beautiful tips. So we’re gonna curate what belongs in the space and what doesn’t. And we’re doing that by, just to summarize the steps, removing the unwanted coats, unwanted stuff that’s extra in that space. We’re gonna pull out the items that don’t belong, get matching hangers. You’ll thank us later, cause they’re beautiful. Hanging bins are ideal for those things that don’t hang. And then of course, command hooks, get that rechargeable light. I don’t know about you, but I’m running out to get one today.

Kathi Lipp (26:05)

Mm-hmm.

They’re so great.

Tonya Kubo (26:16)

and

rotate things seasonally. Not everything needs to live in the same space, same time all year long. Now, I believe we’re going to have a download available with all these tips in our show notes, right? You’re so excited. This was all Kathi’s idea, guys. I would never think of this, so just know that. Kathi thought of this because she knows you well. And we want to hear, so we want you to download that resource from our show notes, but then we want to hear from you over in the free Facebook group and you can find

Kathi Lipp (26:22)

Mm.

We are! Yes!

Tonya Kubo (26:44)

all the links, all the information in the show notes. Kathi, thank you for letting me interview you. This has been so much fun.

Kathi Lipp (26:51)

my goodness.

You know what? And I love doing this because it inspires me in these spaces and I need the inspiration just like everybody else.

Tonya Kubo (27:00)

Oh, I feel the same way. listeners, I just want to say thank you for hanging out with us for this 25 minutes or so. You have been listening to Clutterfree Academy. I’m Tonya Kubo with Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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