#656 When Opposites Attract: Managing Different Clutter Levels in Marriage

#656 When Opposites Attract: Managing Different Clutter Levels in Marriage

#656 When Opposites Attract: Managing Different Clutter Levels in Marriage

In this enlightening episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp welcomes author Arlene Pellicane to discuss the delicate balance of managing different organizational styles within marriage. If you’re struggling with a spouse who has different standards of tidiness, this episode offers practical wisdom and hope. 

Arlene shares four key marriage decisions that can transform your relationship, with special focus on how managing “stuff” impacts marital harmony. You’ll discover how to have productive conversations about organization without creating winners and losers in your marriage. 

 

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

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Meet Our Guest 

 

Arlene Pellican

Arlene Pellicane is a speaker, author, and host of the Happy Home podcast, dedicated to helping families thrive in today’s digital age. Her books have been translated into more than ten languages, and she has appeared on numerous media outlets including the Today Show, Fox & Friends, and The 700 Club. As the spokesperson for National Marriage Week and a former features reporter, Arlene brings her expertise to audiences nationwide through keynotes and workshops for businesses, schools, churches, and ministries. She holds degrees from Biola University and Regent University, and lives in San Diego with her husband James of more than 25 years, their three children, and their Goldendoodle, Winston.

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Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:00)
Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And guys, we have a very special episode. It sounds like we’re doing an after-school special, but it is a very special episode of Clutter-Free Academy. You see, because, you know, it’s the stuff.

but oftentimes when we are struggling with this stuff, it’s not about the stuff. It’s about what the stuff represents. It’s about the relationships around the stuff. And today we’re gonna get a little help with that. This is my dear long, long friend. I don’t wanna say old friend because she’s younger than I am and has kids younger than I do, but we have been friends for a really long time. Her name is Arlene Pelican and guys,

Arlene Pellicane (00:39)
Long, I like that.

Kathi Lipp (00:49)
She is a phenomenal writer and speaker. And I wanna talk to her today. We’re talking about clutter, but we’re talking about it in the midst of relationship. And we’re focusing on her new book, Making Marriage Easier, How to Love and Like Your Spouse for Life. First of all, Arlene, welcome back to the program you’ve been on before. I’m so grateful to have you back. Thank you so much for coming down.

Arlene Pellicane (01:17)
I’m so happy to be with you, my long friend. I like that. I like this long friend. So much better than old friend.

Kathi Lipp (01:19)
Long friend Yes, we don’t want to say old or aged

yeah, so I just have to ask are you a parks and rec fan by any chance?

Arlene Pellicane (01:32)
Okay, well, this is embarrassing. I am not, which I’m sure now people, don’t, I’m sorry, I don’t watch it. It’s not that I don’t like it. I just don’t watch it. So then people will be like, well now we cannot listen to anything that she has to say.

Kathi Lipp (01:43)
No,

it’s okay. I just thought did she get the title? Her subtitle from parks and rec

Arlene Pellicane (01:50)
See? So now

we know for a fact that it came from my own brain.

Kathi Lipp (01:54)
Yes, okay, it did come from your own

brain, but I am really going to encourage you. Roger and I have a poster that we held up at a wedding and it says, I love you and I like you. And that’s the two main characters. It’s one of my top three favorite shows ever. Feel free to skip over the first, like, I don’t know, season. Okay, that’s terrible. Yeah, yeah, start in season two, it’s fine.

Arlene Pellicane (02:10)
Yes. Okay, I will need to do that. Yes.

Yeah, like tell me, which season should I start in?

But I love you and I like you.

Kathi Lipp (02:24)
But

I love you and I like you and it just makes me happy. So I just had to get that out of the way. here’s the thing, I would do anything to watch it again for the first time. So here’s my gift to you. You get to watch it for the first time. yeah, well, okay. So this is really interesting because you know me, you know Roger and I both love and really like him. But I would say, I would venture to say,

Arlene Pellicane (02:29)
I love that.

Yes, this is fantastic.

Kathi Lipp (02:54)
that for many people I know that that is not the case. that what you would say? You’ve been in this, okay, so tell me more about that. Is it that, do you think that’s changed over the years or do you think that it’s always been like that and sometimes we just had to put up with it? Like, what’s your take on that? And guys, we are gonna talk about clutter, but I think this is foundational to what we’re talking about.

Arlene Pellicane (03:02)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I think we hear it more often now than before because I think the emphasis now in marriage is more on like, do you please me? Do you, you know, what do you do for me? And then it’s like, well, you, I don’t really like you very much because you didn’t do very much for me. Where I think in years past, it wasn’t so much like, do you please me? It was more like, hey, we’re a team and we’re in it to win it let’s do this thing. You know, so it wasn’t so much this inspection of, do I like you still?

Kathi Lipp (03:32)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Arlene Pellicane (03:51)
You know, so I do think that is a more recent thing because we are just more self-centered as a society. We’re not as much like service oriented. Just think of, you know, volunteer organizations, for instance, that people used to go to things to whatever Lions Club, Kiwanis Club, whatever, to volunteer. You see a decline in that. And I think you can see that in marriages. Like we’re not so much there to serve one another, to be a team together. more like, well, as long as you’re good for me. Great.

Kathi Lipp (03:51)
Yeah.

Arlene Pellicane (04:21)
but when you stop being good for me, not so much. And I think that’s what kind of has introduced us to this language of like, well, I don’t like you very much. So having said that, it is this, the reason I use that phrasing is yes, when I married James, same like you and Roger, like of course I liked him. Like obviously you like him more than anyone else in the whole worldwide world. That’s why you got married in the first place. So you’re like crazy and like with this person and then you’re married, whether it’s a year or 50 years.

Kathi Lipp (04:38)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Arlene Pellicane (04:49)
And there are times where they do things that makes you think like, I do not like you very much. And I think that a lot of people that people can relate to, and I think that’s kind of normal. So one of the things that I have done is when I think to myself, well, you are being nitpicky, you know, to me, and I don’t like you very much, then I’ll think to myself, well, you probably don’t like me very much either in this moment, which is true, right? Like you’re both not liking each other at that exact moment. But to realize, you know what, we’re human.

Kathi Lipp (05:12)
Mm-hmm.

Arlene Pellicane (05:19)
And in any friendship, this happens too, where there’s just a moment where you’re like, hey, I didn’t really like that very much. But then you get over that and you just continue. And it’s the same thing in marriage that, hey, I’m not going to like you every minute of the day. I am going to love you. That’s my commitment. But what can I do in my marriage? How can I take out the emotional baggage, the clutter, the wrong things, the wrong soundtracks in my mind so that I can actually like you more than I can like you more often?

Kathi Lipp (05:34)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yes.

Arlene Pellicane (05:48)
And

much of that has to do with rhythms that you’re actually connecting that it’s like, I do like you. I have time and I’m realizing on this date that I actually do like you. You are actually still funny. So it’s trying to give you more opportunities to rediscover that you really do like each other.

Kathi Lipp (06:00)
Ehh

Well, and I think that there’s a difference between I didn’t like that and I do like you. You know, it’s like I didn’t like how that conversation went. I didn’t like and so it’s very easy to turn that that phrasing into I don’t like when you do that instead of I don’t like how that went or I, you know, so to take mutual ownership oftentimes. But I do think, you know,

Arlene Pellicane (06:09)
Yes. Yeah.

Yes.

Yes!

Kathi Lipp (06:35)
I grew up in a church where it was all about women pleasing men because the framework was men have it so hard. You have no idea how hard men have it being the leaders. And so it’s all up to us to make sure they’re happy. And I think some of it’s healthy to say, no, thank you. No, we’re not doing that anymore because what everybody is doing is hard.

Arlene Pellicane (06:49)
Yep.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (07:03)
and is beyond themselves. And we need for both sides to go beyond themselves, to not be selfish and to say, I’m going to love you. And what that requires is beyond what’s comfortable for me sometimes, but we’re gonna do it. yeah, yes.

Arlene Pellicane (07:19)
Isn’t it interesting how it like swings? Like it would swing

like, okay, I must serve you because you have such a hard life and it becomes like too heavy one way. But then now we swung it the other way where we’re like, we’re not going to support a man because a man, you know, he’s been, I’m going to fend for myself as a woman. And we swing the other way, like serve me because do you have no idea how hard it is to be working and to be a mom and to make this dinner and all these things. And it is kind of that in the middle, right? That’s serving one another where you realize, Hey, everyone.

Kathi Lipp (07:45)
Yeah.

Arlene Pellicane (07:48)
has like stuff to do and everyone needs that support.

Kathi Lipp (07:50)
Right.

And we need to be able to recognize that in each other. In your book, you talk about four key marriage decisions. Can you give me an overview of what they are? And then we’re going to dive deep. I want to talk about stuff because I, know, Jesus talks more about money and possessions than anything else in the New Testament. So he knew this was going to be a point of contention.

Arlene Pellicane (07:56)
Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Stuff.

Kathi Lipp (08:20)
So when we, we’ll get into the stuff of it, but let’s talk about these four key marriage decisions and why they’re so important.

Arlene Pellicane (08:20)
Yes.

Yeah.

The first decision, and these were, you James and I have been married for 25 years and we’ve been happily married and it was like, why is this working? Kind of this thought, like, what is it? We’re not superheroes. We’re human. We have fights. Like, why is this working? Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (08:36)
Yeah.

Okay, I want to say something to that because

I think it’s the exception. We were just at dinner with somebody on Saturday night and they said, we can’t believe your marriage. And I’m like, and here’s the thing, I think that they have a good marriage. I think that they have a happy marriage, but it really is the exception, isn’t it?

Arlene Pellicane (09:02)
You know, you can feel that way because you think like, no one’s talking like this. But my hope is, you know, with making marriage easier and with different things that more and more people will be able to say this. And hopefully there are more people who feel this way who we’re just not meeting. they’re out there. We just didn’t have dinner with them. That’s all.

Kathi Lipp (09:14)
Yeah, I hope so. Yes, let’s hope so.

So you’ve had 25 years of a happy marriage.

Arlene Pellicane (09:23)
Yeah. Yeah. So these

decisions, so it’s kind of like, like dissect this, like what have we done? So decision number one is play by the rules. And this is the idea of fighting fair, of not following your feelings, but following God’s commands. And you know, you think in Psalm one, it’s saying blessed is the man who delights in the law of the Lord. It’s kind of weird. It’s not like that they loved God. They love the law of the Lord. I love the rules of God. I love

Kathi Lipp (09:30)
Okay.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Arlene Pellicane (09:53)
the way God orders things. And that’s what, when you play by the rules and you say, I love how God has made marriage and I want to honor these rules, I’m going to play by them. So what does this look like? You know, it means I’m not going to have adultery. I’m not going to steal something from you. I’m not going to lie to you. You know, you’re playing by the rules. You know, one of our rules is we call the power hour and that’s simply the rule of having a meal every day together.

Kathi Lipp (10:01)
Mm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mmm.

Arlene Pellicane (10:18)
It’s not legalistic.

It’s not like, you’re not here, but I’m hungry, so I can’t eat. It’s not like that, but it’s just the rhythm. Like every day, unless someone’s traveling or someone has a weird appointment, we’re gonna eat together. So there are certain rules and rhythms that you’ll say, you know, something like, I’m not gonna eat, I’m not gonna be with someone of the opposite sex alone over coffee or dinner. You know, things like that, that these are, play by these rules. So that’s the first decision. The second one is, I will give thanks every day.

Kathi Lipp (10:23)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Arlene Pellicane (10:47)
So it’s making a home based on gratitude that that’s the stuff that’s important, right? To be thankful versus look what I don’t have. Look what I don’t have. I don’t have this marriage. I don’t have the good couch. Like this is ridiculous. So don’t that, that will tear down your home. So give thanks every day. The third thing decision is to serve your spouse. You know, people are, I don’t want to serve my spouse. They’re going to treat me like a doormat. That’s so outdated. But this is the idea of instead of a

Kathi Lipp (10:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Arlene Pellicane (11:15)
approaching your marriage like, well, what have you done for me lately? Because boy, that sounds like a lot of fun. Be like, do I have to like tap and do a tap dance to make you happy? know, what have you done for me lately? Instead of that, we say, how can I make your life easier? You know, how can, what can I do for you today? So that attitude of service, all of a sudden, now you’re empowered to serve your spouse and do something good versus just inspecting and being disappointed at what you didn’t get, right? And then the fourth,

Kathi Lipp (11:31)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Arlene Pellicane (11:44)
And final decision is to have, be serious about fun. Take fun seriously. So you had fun and that’s why you got married because even going to the grocery store or to the bank with your beloved when you were dating was fun because you were together, right? It was just like, yay, we’re together. We’re getting an oil change and this is so much fun because we’re in the car together, you know? So what happens when you’re married, you’re like, that’s extra. Like we can’t have fun. We don’t have money for that. We don’t have time for that.

Kathi Lipp (11:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Arlene Pellicane (12:14)
So forget it, we don’t have fun. And then what happens? It’s like, we don’t have anything in common anymore because we never have fun. So it’s very important to say, my goodness, I should save money for that little excursion. I should put aside time to have date night because I actually need to laugh with you. And that’s something you and Roger do so well and so often, right? Is you make each other laugh and that’s what makes marriage easier. So take your fun seriously.

Kathi Lipp (12:26)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I look forward, today we have to go to, our RV is stored in a nether city and we have to go and do some repairs. And I’m looking forward to it because I get to hang out with him and have conversations. And it’s the stupid stuff, but you’re right. know, anything can be fun when it’s approached in the right way. I do think it is, you know, it’s both people agreeing to meet in that space.

Arlene Pellicane (12:52)
See?

I love that. Yeah.

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (13:09)
And think that that’s where, you know, one person’s working on the marriage and the other one is not. And that’s where we can get into trouble and feel like we’re struggling. But it’s been interesting. One of these things I see now that is I really press against, I don’t like it, is, well, you should just do that without me having to say thank you. And I…

Arlene Pellicane (13:20)
Yes.

Kathi Lipp (13:37)
Here’s the thing. Yes, there are some things that roger does and I probably don’t notice and I probably don’t say thank you But if he does something and I do notice there’s going to be a thank you even if it seemed Yeah, like I know some people say I shouldn’t have to say thank you for unloading the dishwasher because that’s just part of Home maintenance and yes, it is just part of home maintenance and also i’m grateful

Arlene Pellicane (13:49)
Yes.

Kathi Lipp (14:06)
that he has taken that on as his mental load, I don’t ever have to worry about dishes. And I am so grateful for that. And there are things he never has to worry about, and he is grateful for that. And so I think showing up in those ways is really important, even though it goes against modern wisdom and modern convention.

Arlene Pellicane (14:09)
Yes.

Yeah.

I’m

with you on this. So think of a server in a restaurant. They are just doing what they’re supposed to be doing. They are literally paid to bring you a menu, bring you your food, be pleasant to you and refill your water. They are literally doing your duty, their duty. They owe it to you. That’s their job. So am I going to just sit there and not be grateful? Am I just going to sit there and be like, yeah, you’re just doing what you’re supposed to be doing. I’m going to say thank you. Like you brought me my meal. Thank you. And in fact, this

Kathi Lipp (14:30)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I… Yes.

Arlene Pellicane (14:56)
what you have said shines light on something that happened to me at a restaurant. I was eating with three of my girlfriends and we were very like nice to the server, like just normal. And she literally came up to us afterwards, almost like in tears. And she was like, she was like, you are the nicest people. You wouldn’t believe the people I serve here. They are so mean and demanding and like it’s so hard.

Kathi Lipp (15:12)
I knew exactly what you were going to say. Yep.

Arlene Pellicane (15:25)
you are really, really nice. And I couldn’t believe it. I was like, we were just acting like cordially, like it was just normal. So I think we’ve come to that place that, it’s a bad place. It’s an ugly place where we think you owe that to me. So I’m not going to give thanks for something you owe to me. And that’s like a very ugly place to be. So I think if we can do it, we see it with the server in the restaurant. So my goodness in your home, even though you’re supposed to.

Kathi Lipp (15:42)
Yeah.

Arlene Pellicane (15:52)
drive the kids to school, you’re supposed to bring home a paycheck, you’re supposed to do the dishwasher, please do say thank you, because that really does lend to that key decision, give thanks.

Kathi Lipp (16:03)
And especially if you’re going to a restaurant Sunday after church, because waiters hate Sunday after church. And it’s like, what a reputation. We need to be the most generous, the most kind, the most, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Okay, we’re gonna take a quick break. And then when we come back, we’re gonna talk about one of the most often marriage testing things, and that is stuff.

Arlene Pellicane (16:10)
Yeah.

Yes, the nicest, biggest tip. Yes, most patient, very kind, use their name.

Kathi Lipp (16:31)
So we’ll take a quick break and come right back with Arlene Pelleking. Okay, guys, we are back. in your book, you talk about stuff. And you talk about some of the materialistic traps in marriage. You were telling a story about your first apartment. I love, did you really have trash bag curtains?

Arlene Pellicane (16:59)
Yes,

we really did. We’re super classy. So our first apartment was on the fourth floor in Dallas, Texas. It was no elevator. we literally with the groceries when we packed in everything, four flights of stairs in hot Dallas, we got there, you know, I mean, it’s hot there. You get it. So anyway, we’re very poor, you know, we’re new newlyweds. The place is completely empty. It has like a card table and like a bed, you know, you get it. And all this stuff is going to be garage sale things. So we had no curtains.

Kathi Lipp (17:03)
Hahaha!

No.

Yeah.

Arlene Pellicane (17:29)
And we’re like, boy, it gets like really sunny in here. So we’re like, okay, we’re going to make curtains with these black hefty bags. So we took the black hefty bags, know, we slit them and we hung them and put little ties around them. And we’re like, wow, this really works really good to block the sun and to do the things and to give that extra shade. we’re like, this is awesome. So it was so funny because here we are with these black hefty bags and we didn’t care.

Kathi Lipp (17:33)
Mm-hmm.

Arlene Pellicane (17:56)
because it’s like we were so happy together, it didn’t matter. And then in fact, our first fight was over him inviting a neighbor to dinner. And I had told him specifically, he asked me, hey, I just met our new neighbor, can I invite him to dinner? And I was like, no, because I only had two chicken breasts, I didn’t know how to cook, I was using my George Foreman grill for the first time, like this was.

Kathi Lipp (17:57)
Mm-hmm.

Arlene Pellicane (18:22)
I didn’t know how to cook. I’m like, this is going to be magic. I’m going put the chicken in. It’s going to come out. It’s going be amazing. But I was so super nervous about it. So I was like, and then we have the trash bags on the wall and we eat at this card table. I’m like, no, you cannot have someone last minute for dinner. And guess who came to dinner? Walter. Yes, of course. Knocked. Came to dinner and I couldn’t believe it. So I’m just like, okay, Walter, sit here. I was super nice to Walter, of course. He ate my chicken with the black trash bags. I mean, it was great.

Kathi Lipp (18:23)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Of course.

Of course.

Arlene Pellicane (18:52)
And when Walter left, I was very mad at James and he was like, he bear hugged me and he’s like, I’m sorry. And like, are you sorry because I’m mad at you? Are you sorry for what you did? You know? And thankfully we have never had an unwelcome guest. We have had guests, but they’ve had more notice. So, and I’m getting a little bit looser and we do have real curtains, but you know what? It’s okay when people actually like Walter.

Kathi Lipp (19:03)
Right.

Yes.

Arlene Pellicane (19:16)
as he was eating my chicken. Like he doesn’t care really, he probably finds it amusing that we have that. So sometimes we think we’ve got to have this stuff to impress our friends. And I get it, there is a certain level of stuff that you do need. I think it was good that we went and we don’t have the curtains, right? We don’t have that anymore. So there is a certain level that you do need. But once you get to that level, you can kind of stop because sometimes we think, if I get that new thing,

Kathi Lipp (19:21)
Right. Right.

Mm-hmm. I’m glad you upgraded your curtains. Yes

Arlene Pellicane (19:45)
it’ll make me really happy. But then you get the new thing and you enjoy it for a month. But then it’s like, I am not that much happier. So I am not a very good like designer person. Like I love beautiful things and I like nice things, but I don’t know how to put things together, right? Like I don’t know how to make it all look like ta-da, like this. So basically our house has kind of looked the same for the last like, let’s say 20 years. It’s like all the same furniture, all the same things. Anything that’s new has come off of

Kathi Lipp (19:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Arlene Pellicane (20:15)
Craigslist or given away by someone who is moving, et cetera. And it’s fine and it looks fine. It’s great. But it’s like, I don’t have this, it has simplified life to not have to always upgrade the sofa, upgrade the table, upgrade the thing. Kind of like, hey, let’s buy this once, let’s buy quality and then let’s never buy it again.

Kathi Lipp (20:20)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Arlene Pellicane (20:35)
And that

really has helped us to kind of simplify. We don’t always have to be changing these things, buying new things. I don’t have to have a new look because now it’s gray, it’s not brown. It’s like, it’ll be brown again someday. So just kind of like have that mindset like, if I make all these changes, it really doesn’t change the quality of the relationships in the house.

Kathi Lipp (20:46)
Right?

Yeah,

you know there there’s a great reddit thread. It’s called buy it for life And you know what vacuum cleaner are you gonna buy that you just buy for life? What’s the couch that you’re gonna buy and some of them are really expensive? But some of them are not and a lot of them you can get secondhand and you’re right, you know, you may enjoy I I will admit it. I’m addicted to throw pillows. It’s a problem

Arlene Pellicane (21:04)
Yes.

Yes!

Kathi Lipp (21:25)
And I will say they bring me a lot of joy. And I’ve had to also say, I don’t think any new pillows will bring me any more joy. Because every day when I sit down in our living room, there are a few pillows, I’m like, they just make me happy. But yes, you know, there are not ones out there. I am not searching for happier pillows. you know, it’s like, don’t replace joy for joy. If you already have the joy,

Arlene Pellicane (21:42)
Yes!

Yes!

Yeah, yeah.

Kathi Lipp (21:55)
You don’t need

to be going and looking for other joy, you know, because yeah, it is often, I’m just trying to impress somebody or I want somebody to feel this way about me when they come through the door. Okay, go ahead.

Arlene Pellicane (22:06)
I have

to, I’m thinking of something that’s so funny. So I do want to have, I do want to say, like, I don’t get a lot of joy from decorating. So that makes it easy for me not to do it. So if you’re listening and this is something you super love, you know, then it may be something you really do do for the love of it. So I don’t want to discount that. With the throw pillows, it wouldn’t it be funny if there’s certain things in your house you love so much.

Kathi Lipp (22:15)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Yeah.

Arlene Pellicane (22:31)
but you like put them away for the day. Like if you put your throw pillows in your closet for a day and then you took them out the next day, you’d be like, my throw pillow is back. So we did this with our daughter Lucy when she was two years old. She had a favorite little doggie, Violet, the purple doggie, the leapfrog one that like talks and sings and stuff. And she loved Violet.

Kathi Lipp (22:39)
you’re back!

Mm-hmm.

Arlene Pellicane (22:53)
So what we did one year is we took Violet and we put a biking helmet on Violet and a little jacket on Violet and we made it biker Violet and we wrapped it for Christmas and she opened it as a two year old on Christmas day and saw biker Violet and you could not even believe the delight that that child had. She was like, Violet and Violet had the biking helmet on and this little jacket. It was like biker.

Kathi Lipp (23:02)
You

Arlene Pellicane (23:21)
And it was the cutest thing. And I thought to myself, I am such a smart mom. I took the same present and I dressed it up for this two year old and this two year old think it’s the best thing ever. And you know what? Maybe as adults, can like, how can you dress up what you already have? How can you like put it away and then take it out so that it’s the same stuff, but you get that little thrill of like, I’ve missed you Violet or you look different Violet. So it was so funny.

Kathi Lipp (23:37)
Yeah.

Okay, I love

the violet story so much. And we kind of do this, like we’ve been given little gifts before, and it’s like stuff I really like, but I don’t necessarily want stuff out all year round. And it’s very seasonal here. You know, in San Jose, I didn’t know, and where you live too. You don’t know the difference between March 30th and October 30th. Yeah, exactly. So we’ll…

Arlene Pellicane (24:10)
Right.

November 1st. Yes.

Kathi Lipp (24:19)
We do have like a summer box has like some flag stuff, because that’s I’m born on flag day. So I get flag stuff. And I’ll put things like the little donkey my friend, Susie gave me in that box. And when I open it, I’m like, I love the donkey. But then I put it away. It’s so true. So how do you feel that having less stuff in your life can contribute to

Arlene Pellicane (24:35)
All right. Right.

Kathi Lipp (24:49)
an easier time in your marriage because I believe it can but I don’t know that people see the through line for that.

Arlene Pellicane (24:50)
Yes. Yeah.

Yes. When you have a lot of stuff, you have to manage your stuff. You have to take care of your stuff. So whether it’s taking care like I have a friend who has a boat, he’s on the boat all the time. So you kind of like for his wife, it’s kind of like the boat is the other woman. So that’s a very extreme example, like how the stuff takes a lot of time. So you have to just take that to heart. So if you have

Kathi Lipp (25:00)
Exactly.

You

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Arlene Pellicane (25:24)
so much stuff and you have to organize it. Like right now, my laundry room, which has shelves, has so much stuff. So in my mind, when I go in there, it’s like, I’m so stressed out. It’s like half pantry, half like kid stuff, half activity stuff, games, it’s everything. So I know I need to take time, a good swath of time, and go through all of that. Now, if that is multiplied all throughout my house and I keep piling more on,

Kathi Lipp (25:29)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Arlene Pellicane (25:51)
then I have more and more time that I have to spend to organize it versus if I actually did think from here on out, and this is a work in progress, buy it once, keep it, buy quality, you and maybe when I look at a new thing to be like, do I really need that new clutter that’s gonna be like another thing for me to have to find a place for? And maybe then I say, no, I’m not gonna buy that, because I know my laundry room is packed and I don’t need that. So what does that do?

Well, it frees me up my headspace, frees my headspace from worrying about it. It frees me up two hours on a Saturday where I would have to like manage my things. Now I can go out and have ice cream with my husband or my kids. So I do think it is a time issue of the time that you spend buying it, figuring out where do I put it, and then figuring out where do I store it, then figuring out do I want it or not want it, all those things, you know, they take time. So the less…

Kathi Lipp (26:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Arlene Pellicane (26:47)
you have to do that, then the more time you have to spend, the less time you have to spend organizing your garage and the more time you can be riding bikes with your kids or doing whatever, you know. So it is a good concept. mean, please don’t hear me and think I’m like this minimalist guru. We have stuff coming out of our ears because I do, I like to keep things, you know, my middle daughter, she’s very minimalist. She can do it. She can look at something, she’ll get a trophy.

Kathi Lipp (26:49)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Arlene Pellicane (27:14)
tennis trophy on Tuesday, it’s in the trash on Friday. You know what I mean? Like she’ll be like, I got it. That was great. I don’t really need this. Where I’ll be like, well, I’m going to keep that for a few years, you know? So there, she’s very like, I don’t need that. Like she’s very minimalist. Like I enjoyed it and I’m going to get rid of it. And I’m more of the like, it’s a treasure. Like I will keep it. So, you know, we’re all across this, this spectrum of how we view our stuff.

Kathi Lipp (27:17)
Wow.

Wow.

Arlene Pellicane (27:43)
But I think when it comes acquiring right now more, that this is a good time where we can say, you know what, less is probably better. You know, I’ve read something from Mickalyn Smith, the nester, and she said that the most luxurious room in my home is my bedroom because it’s completely clutter free. It’s just like the bed and these like very minimalistic decor and my clothes. And she just talks about luxury is needing less.

Kathi Lipp (27:51)
Yeah.

You have.

Arlene Pellicane (28:12)
And I really like that thought like, it’s more luxurious not to have your

stuff packed everywhere with stuff. It’s more luxurious to be like, I just have a few things I really like.

Kathi Lipp (28:23)
Well, and also I just did an episode with a doctor who specializes in sleep and the less that’s in your best bedroom, the less it pings you and yeah, you sleep better, you know, and with our acquisition, people who have listened to this podcast know that we talk about STEM, space, time, energy and money and the less stuff, the less space it takes up. So the less pinged you are time you’re like you were saying you’re not

Arlene Pellicane (28:31)
Interesting. My goodness.

Hmm. Yep. Yes.

Kathi Lipp (28:53)
dealing with that energy. You know, we’re always so exhausted, but we’re managing so much stuff. And then money because money is one of the biggest stress points in most marriages. And if we can hold on to more of that not spending it, you know, there there are certain places, you know, Costco is a trap for me. Target can be a trap for me. I have never met something at Trader Joe’s that I didn’t like, you know.

Arlene Pellicane (28:57)
Yep.

Right, me too.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (29:22)
These

are traps for me, but the money gives me options. And that’s what I want in my marriage. What if somebody is struggling over the state of their house with their spouse, whether their husband is on the messier side or maybe, you know, for the people who are listening, maybe it’s us, maybe we’re the ones who are struggling on the messier side. What are some talking points?

that you could have for that discussion as we close up here. What is something, how can you open up that conversation, whether it’s you or the other person?

Arlene Pellicane (30:01)
Yeah. You know, I would say start not with the idea like, am going to convince this person to be less messy. Right? Start instead of just being curious of like, how might we fix this? Like, how might this be easier? And approach your spouse that way. Like, hey, you know what? You know, I’m always nagging you to pick up your stuff and you’re always leaving your stuff around. I don’t want to nag you.

I don’t want to do that. So let’s brainstorm together. How can we make this easier for both of us? And just be kind of curious about like, maybe the messy person will say, you know, I really like the house messy because I grew up in a messy house and it just makes me feel at home. And when the house is so neat and picked up, I feel like it’s sterile, like I feel like it’s hospital. And you know what? As a spouse, if you heard that,

Kathi Lipp (30:29)
Mm-hmm.

Nice.

Arlene Pellicane (30:53)
it would give you a new perspective of, you actually feel really comfortable right now. This feels good to you. But now you’re kind of curious, you know, about what my husband would say you’re crossing the street. Like you’re crossing the street to find out what does the other person say about this. And then you could tell them, well, okay, that helps me to understand that that’s where, but for me, it has the opposite effect. I come home and I’m all freaked out. So maybe you do zones.

Kathi Lipp (30:58)
This feels good to you, yeah.

Right.

Arlene Pellicane (31:21)
that you’re like, hey, we’re gonna keep the kitchen area really clean and we’re gonna keep the bedroom really clean. And then the other part, the little family room, if you wanna junk that up, that can be like our thing. But you have to promise when we have people over, you have to help me clean it up. But like, I love this conversation of like, how can we make this easier for both of us so that we both could enjoy this just a little more. So don’t try to go for the total win.

Kathi Lipp (31:27)
Right.

Yeah.

Right.

Arlene Pellicane (31:48)
Like we’re gonna completely clean the house, but just a little more, how could we make this a little better for both of us?

Kathi Lipp (31:54)
Yeah, because when there are winners and losers in a marriage, everybody loses. It’s just that it never works out. You never are going to win against your spouse because you’re never supposed to be set against your spouse. And so I love, I love, love, love this idea. Arlene, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much.

Arlene Pellicane (31:59)
Yes. Yeah.

Yep.

Thank you so much for having me. It’s been so, so much fun. And I want to encourage you, instead of spending your money on stuff, spend it, save it for experiences. Because the experiences, you enjoy it three times. And I talk about how you can enjoy experiences three times in the book.

Kathi Lipp (32:26)
Yeah.

I think I know what you’re talking about. But yes. OK. The book is called Making Marriage Easier. How to love and like your spouse for life. We’ll have notes. We’ll have an ordering link in the show notes so you can go there and order it at Amazon or any of your favorite retailer, wherever books are sold. Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutterfree Academy. I’m Cathy Lip. Now.

Go create the clutter-free life you’ve always wanted to live.

 

More Posts 

#656 When Opposites Attract: Managing Different Clutter Levels in Marriage

#653 Say Goodbye to Insomnia: How Decluttering Can Reboot Your Rest

#653 Say Goodbye to Insomnia: How Decluttering Can Reboot Your Rest

Hey there, friend!

In this eye opening episode of Clutter-Free Academy, join Kathi Lipp as she speaks with Dr. Vicki Kasper to explore the powerful and surprising link between clutter and sleep. They discuss the science behind rest, how a clutter-free environment contributes to restorative sleep, and actionable steps you can take today to declutter your way to peace and rest.

Dr. Vicki shares her expertise in lifestyle medicine with insights that could transform your bedtime routine and overall health. Listen along for the practical solutions offered in this episode, and be sure to follow up and get the free tip sheet designed to help you clear mental hurdles and sleep better. Everyone will benefit from the dynamic duo’s wisdom and be able to begin their journey to a clutter-free, restful life. 

Join the conversation and get ready to implement life-changing habits that will help you live every day with less clutter and more life.

Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

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Meet Our Guest 

 

Dr Vickie Kasper

A twenty-year career as an obstetrician/gynecologist, delivereing precious babies at all hours of the day and night,  doling out advice to women from all walks of life, treating illnesses, and giving doses of encouragement for living.
At the age of fifty, Dr Vickie was stronger and more fit than ever. Living her life in high gear, neglecting sleep and rest. Then, a rare neuromuscular disease called myasthenia gravis brought her life to a screeching halt.

Becoming a patient, Dr Vickie gained new insight, perspective, and tested her own advice. After surgery and intense medical treatment, she regained her health. Then came a borderline diabetes diagnosis, prompting lifestyle changes and igniting a passion for the power of lifestyle changes.

While Dr Vickie’s Christian faith was a solid foundation in her journey to health, she had a lot to learn about eating, sleeping, and managing stress. Now working in the field of lifestyle medicine, which emphasizes the importance of taking care of the whole body.

Now, as energized and healthy as ever before, Dr Vickie helps people adopt the six pillars of lifestyle medicine in their own lives. Whether you’re trying to prevent disease, treat a condition, or live with a chronic illness, lifestyle medicine can help you feel better.

You can find Dr Vickie on her Website here.

Tonya Kubo Picture
Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:10)
Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with the Clutter-Free queen. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. Okay, we don’t often do top 10 lists, but we’re doing a top 10 list today. I, so this is a two-parter. The first part is 10 things I don’t do now that I live clutter-free.

Tonya Kubo (00:24)
Hey Kathi

Kathi Lipp (00:40)
And next week, we’re going to talk about 10 things I do now that I live clutter free. And so I want to talk to you about how your life has changed, the things that you have stopped. And I just realized I told you we were going to do exactly the opposite podcast, but you know what? We’re we’re just fine. We’re just rolling with it. You know, we’re going to live in the moment here. And so I’m going to get us kicked off because I I think

Tonya Kubo (00:53)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:10)
People would not recognize my life From before clutter free now clutter free has not always I did not say hey I’m gonna start something called clutter free and now I’m gonna change my life like I changed my life and Then I thought I’m not the only one like this I wrote a book called clutter free and then I met my friend Tonya Kubo who seemed like the most put-together human being on the planet, but told me no

Tonya Kubo (01:21)
No.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:39)
her life was a mess too, and we started to figure all this stuff out together. And what a gift that was because as much as the book helped people, I know that our Clutter-Free Academy, Clutter-Free for Life and this podcast have helped just exponentially more people. I really, people don’t believe that I was cluttery at one point. And I’m like, no, I’m still cluttery at some points, but.

Tonya Kubo (01:57)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

still cluttering. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (02:09)
I’m not afraid

to invite you into my house. So I wanted to talk about what are some key things that look different now than they did when I was clutter free. number one, I don’t save up decluttering for the weekends. And this has been a huge shift for me because I would always think as I’ve…

Tonya Kubo (02:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:32)
pretty much always been a Monday through Friday, nine to five kind of person and who actually works nine to five. Let’s be clear, it’s eight to six. But I’ve pretty much been that person my whole life and I was just so busy during the week that I’m like, I’m just gonna save all this up for the weekends. And I don’t live like that anymore. Like as I am leaving a room, I’m like, are there things I can grab to throw away, to put away, to declutter?

Tonya Kubo (02:39)
Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (03:00)
Is that similar for you?

Tonya Kubo (03:03)
Yeah, I mean, I still think, you know, because my kids are younger, right? Like our house is always in some state of shambles, but you know, little things that I used to on Fridays clean off my desk, for instance. And now it’s just at the end of the day, right? It just is so much easier to take like a handful of stuff at the end of each day than to have to make multiple trips every Friday.

Kathi Lipp (03:06)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

It makes such a difference, right? Because I don’t know, there’s just something about like, I’ve saved this up for an entire week. You know, instead of just saying, okay, a little bit of time, a little bit of time, my brain has shifted into small amounts of decluttering instead of huge mountains of decluttering. Okay, so that’s number one. Tonya, we’re going back and forth. Tonya, what’s number two?

Tonya Kubo (03:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Kathi Lipp (03:54)
something that you don’t do now that you live clutter-free.

Tonya Kubo (03:57)
Okay, so this might seem silly, but I genuinely used to think unloading the dishwasher took 30 minutes and now I realize it takes about three and a half. So I don’t put off unloading the dishwasher till the weekend. Like seriously, I made it into such a big job in my head and I don’t need more.

Kathi Lipp (04:11)
Right?

Yeah, yes,

I feel like doing the dishes could take a half hour if you’ve got a lot of dishes piled up if you have things that need to be soaked like, you know, deep, deep scrub. Right.

Tonya Kubo (04:24)
Right, but I didn’t say doing the dishes, Kathi. I just

said unload the dishwasher.

Kathi Lipp (04:30)
just thinking maybe that’s why your brain was playing tricks on you and here’s what I know is when you when you unload the dishes here’s the magical thing it’s easier to load the dishes I know that seems like it should be obvious but our cluttery people will get that

Tonya Kubo (04:42)
Right.

Yeah, no, exactly, exactly.

Kathi Lipp (04:49)
Yeah, okay. Number three, I don’t stand next to the gas pump while it’s filling up. I, okay, so I think a lot of our cluttering friends will get this. I went, those small moments, like just like you were talking about with the microwave, I unload the dishwasher in the two and a half minutes that my, or I at least get it started in the two and a half minutes that my oatmeal is cooking.

Tonya Kubo (05:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:18)
And

so now I am married to somebody who does quiet contemplation while his coffee is warming up. And I’m like, you know what, we just live different lives. while I’m pumping my gas, I clean out the car. I just grab a few things. I throw them into the garbage. I feel like that’s free garbage. Garbage is such a big deal up here.

Tonya Kubo (05:24)
Hahaha

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes,

it is free garbage. I am right there with you.

Kathi Lipp (05:45)
It makes me so happy. I can’t even stand it. Yeah, I’m never somebody who would bring garbage from my house to throw away. I’ve heard of people doing that. I know. But if I’ve got a McDonald’s cup, that that’s going in the garbage while I’m pumping. It is I’m doing all the things and even like our truck takes a long time to fill up. I have been known to we have a like a hand vac in the truck.

Tonya Kubo (05:53)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yup.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:14)
and I’ve been known to like vacuum things out while I’m doing, yeah, it makes me so happy I can’t even stand it. Okay, but I’m doing, what the core concept behind that is it just takes a moment to make a small difference. And like you just said with the unloading dishwasher and even with the, I don’t save up decluttering for the weekends. If I can do a little bit each day, man, the weekends can be for.

Tonya Kubo (06:17)
Nice.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:42)
fun or bigger projects or things like that. Okay, number four, Tonya, what’s something that you don’t do now that you’re living clutter free?

Tonya Kubo (06:44)
Mm-hmm.

I don’t go shopping when I’m tired, hungry, or frustrated.

Kathi Lipp (06:56)
That’s my favorite time to go shopping. Okay, tell me more. Right.

Tonya Kubo (06:58)
It’s everybody’s favorite time to go shopping.

Right. But I mean, something that I learned early on in my clutter free journey is that when I’m tired, I’m hungry or I’m frustrated, my tolerance, like my my impulse control is lower and my desire to soothe is higher. And so I feel like everything I see at the store is going to make me feel better. And it is not.

Kathi Lipp (07:16)
Yeah.

Mmm, good.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (07:26)
to make me feel better. I am still going to leave the store tired, hungry, and frustrated so I may as well just solve those problems before I go.

Kathi Lipp (07:33)
Okay, can I tell you how I’m even worse at this and it’s something I need to correct in my own life. So I go to the store, which is a chore, right? That is an errand. Right. And I feel like because I have done that, even when I was living in San Jose and things were like five minutes, like, look at me checking things off of my list. I deserve a little treat, a little treaty treat. Can we just say that shopping and Target

Tonya Kubo (07:42)
Yeah, it’s a jaunt for you. It’s a jaunt.

Hahaha

Kathi Lipp (08:02)
It’s so much better when you have Starbucks. And so like this is the thinking I have to unpack all the time in my cluttery journey. it just, makes a difference. It makes a difference when you say, and I just, but I try not to go, I pack snacks now in our car so that we are not so tempted.

Tonya Kubo (08:05)
I’m sure it is, I’m sure it is.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:32)
Like it’s okay every once in a while to go to Starbucks, but you don’t get Starbucks every time you leave the house. Yes, okay. And so tired, hungry, frustrated will lead you to, and here’s the other part of that that I think is you’re so wise because I’ll just throw things in my cart and I’ll say I’ll return them later if I’m frustrated. Like, you know, don’t go shopping for jeans when you’re tired, frustrated or hungry. That’s just the meanest thing you could do to yourself.

Tonya Kubo (08:32)
Yeah.

Mmm.

No.

Kathi Lipp (09:00)
but then I’ll buy all the jeans and then I’m like, now I have to take them back. And then like, I already have a return right now of a shirt and it’s, we’re recording this around Christmas time. And I’m like, the last thing I want to do on earth is go into a store and return a shirt. Like I can’t think of anything I want to do less. Okay. Number five, I don’t leave a room without scanning the room. So.

Tonya Kubo (09:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm

Kathi Lipp (09:27)
What that means is I don’t, I don’t just walk into another room. I will walk into another room, but I will grab the dish that’s on my desk. I will grab the shirt that needs to be returned. Can you tell I’m going through stuff? I will grab the jacket that needs to be hung downstairs. And here’s why I think that this matters. Even if I’m just going into Roger’s office, which is still on the top of the floor.

I’ll move those things to the top of the stairs so that I used to think if I’m gonna do something, I need to do it all the way. And no, I just need to push it forward. I need to push that chore forward. And that makes a huge difference. It’s like, even if I can’t unload the entire dishwasher while my oatmeal is cooking, I’m pushing it forward enough and I’m yelling up to Roger,

Tonya Kubo (10:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:26)
The dishes are clean, I’m just not done yet. And so he knows not to put dirty dishes in there. But if you can push it forward, then the next time you’re reheating your coffee, you can push it forward another minute and you might get it done. And so scanning a room, seeing what can I push into place? Because here’s what I know, if I leave it all until I have time, then I’m gonna spend half a day going up and down the stairs. And that sounds like my worst nightmare, I hate that stuff.

Tonya Kubo (10:29)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (10:56)
Yeah, okay. So we have gone through our top five. We’re gonna take a quick break, pay some bills. We’re gonna come back and Tonya is gonna talk about how she doesn’t apologize. I can’t wait to hear about how you do this. Teach me, Obi-Wan. We’ll be right back. Okay, guys, we are back with 10 things I don’t do now that I live clutter free. So Tonya, you say you don’t apologize. For what?

Tonya Kubo (11:23)
I

apologize for the condition of my house.

Kathi Lipp (11:26)
So tell me more. Tell me how I can get brave and be really like, just come on in.

Tonya Kubo (11:33)
well, just stop doing it. I mean, that’s how I did it, right? It was like a cold turkey. Like, I think there was a bit of a transition of where I would say, I probably should apologize for the state of my house, but I won’t. But I just don’t. And, you know, some people come in and say stuff and some people don’t, and I don’t really care. Because what I realize is we all have a different standard. You know, I used to apologize. And I realized that a lot of people

Kathi Lipp (11:37)
wow.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:03)
Like, first of all, I would apologize after spending hours doing a crisis clean because I knew other people would come in and like, and feel like my house was in complete disarray. And I was like, why am I acting like I didn’t just kill myself to make this house look nicer? And then I got to where, you know what? What do I care? mean, people come in, sometimes people are like, wow, you must be really busy. I am. That’s not untrue. I am really busy.

Kathi Lipp (12:13)
Mmm.

Right, right.

It’s a great friend test, right? Can we hang? Can we hang? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:33)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I’m just

like, there’s nothing they could say that’s probably not true to some degree. And I’ve had like repair guys come in, it’s funny, is because the repair guys will come in and our front room doesn’t have flooring. We tore up the flooring and then building costs went up so we have not replaced the flooring. And they’ll go to put the booties on them like, yeah, that’s cute. You don’t have to do that here. And they’ll look around and they’re like, okay.

Kathi Lipp (12:49)
All right. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:01)
Every now and then they’ll say, are you sure? Like, yeah, no, we’re good here.

Kathi Lipp (13:06)
Yeah.

Well, it’s so true. Our lives are all in transition, right? And when you have kids, the amount of day-to-day clutter goes up exponentially. Or maybe you’re in the midst of a big project. You know, I’ll never forget during the launch of Clutter Free, book, the state my house was in. It was like, we can’t take any pictures. And just recently,

Tonya Kubo (13:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:35)
Tenneil who manages our social media said, Kathi, can we get a video of you pushing in a chair? And right now we’re in Christmas crazies. I’m like, it would take me 45 minutes to get to a place to push in a chair. Right, it’s, yeah, because there’s all the fudge making supplies right there, yeah. So are you really, are you using marshmallow fluff in it?

Tonya Kubo (13:45)
No. To push in the chair. You’re like, “‘Cause I can’t get to the chair to push it in.”

Yes, I’m making fudge this weekend too. Anyway, I am.

I am using marshmallow fluff in it. I took a whole class on how to make fudge using marshmallow fluff. It was fun.

Kathi Lipp (14:05)
I saw that I saw that well,

I saw the fudge class. I didn’t know that there was the marshmallow fluff. Yeah, I’m very excited I’m just using a recipe off the internet But as you know, we live next to not next to you know half I don’t know 20 minutes away from a gourmet chocolate shop, which is the only Yeah, they’re a whiner They ship they’re so good but also let’s just say their fudge has gourmet prices and I’m like

Tonya Kubo (14:16)
Mm-hmm.

Little John’s, they ship. Little John’s, you should order from Little John’s.

Yes

Kathi Lipp (14:35)
How much would it cost for me to do this? And Roger’s like, we can buy their other stuff. We never have to buy fudge again. And I was like, I’m an indentured fudge servant now. Got it. Okay. Okay. You know what? It’s good. Hey, speaking of fudge, number seven, I don’t buy all the gear for hobbies unless I have a pattern of doing the hobby. Because here’s what I’ve discovered, Tonya. You know what my hobby is? Buying the stuff for hobbies.

Tonya Kubo (14:44)
Yes, I am too.

Mmm.

I

was gonna say preparing to have a hobby.

Kathi Lipp (15:07)
So here’s what I said, know, like one of the recipes that I am preparing right now called for a candy thermometer. And I’m like, ugh.

Tonya Kubo (15:17)
I need that for the fudge recipe with the marshmallow fluff. You need a candy thermometer.

Kathi Lipp (15:20)
Okay, so here’s what I told

myself if I prepare three recipes right now that don’t require the the thermometer if I if I prepare these three Christmas gift II things then I am allowed to buy a Candy thermometer and I got one by the way Michaels has 30 % off coupons for a while now. So go check that out I got the I think it’s the Wilson one but

Tonya Kubo (15:34)
Mm-hmm.

Ew.

Kathi Lipp (15:49)
I cannot tell you how many hobbies I’ve invested in and had to keep that stuff because I invest I told myself I’ve invested so heavily I need to keep all this stuff. It just it doesn’t make sense and it’s not the right thing. So I no longer I need to have a pattern of Can I start this hobby with stuff I have or can I start this hobby for less than ten dollars? And if I find that I really enjoy it

Tonya Kubo (15:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:19)
Then I will keep going but I am NOT going to go I’ll just say my history is buying at a professional level and performing at an amateur level like it’s not good

Tonya Kubo (16:30)
I

know that feeling though. If I have the same paints and brushes that Bob Ross has, I will make the same pictures that Bob Ross made.

Kathi Lipp (16:37)
Right.

Right, right.

And you know, our friend Cheri Gregory, friend of the podcast, Cheri Gregory calls it buying to become and I have done that for years and years. Okay, Tonya, number eight.

Tonya Kubo (16:49)
Yeah.

Okay, I kind of stole from you because you said that you scan a room before you leave. Before I go to bed, I make a round through the house specifically for dirty dishes. And here’s my, if I made a round through my house for decluttering, I would never make it to bed. But I can make a pass through my teeny tiny house just for dirty dishes in about 25 minutes. And it makes my life so much easier that

Kathi Lipp (16:58)
Yeah. Yeah.

so smart.

No, of course not.

Hmm

Tonya Kubo (17:24)
Like, know, because all run into bulls, where are all the bulls? The bulls are in the kids’ room underneath the bed. Why are they underneath the bed? I actually can’t answer that question, but that is where I find them.

Kathi Lipp (17:33)
Okay, Tonya, we are missing a bowl right now. There are just two of us. There are just two of us. This giant glass bowl, we cannot find. Is it under Lily’s bed? That’s my question now.

Tonya Kubo (17:36)
Maybe it’s under my bed!

It’s probably under Lily’s bed, and this is the worst of it, right? Is the way that Abby’s bed works, it sits lower to the ground. So Abby shoves stuff underneath Lily’s bed too. It’s not even all Lily’s fault.

Kathi Lipp (17:52)
Ugh.

Poor Lily. I’m sorry Lily. I did not mean to throw you under the bus bus or the bed Okay, so you do so what 25 minutes that seems like a long time so break that down for me Really okay

Tonya Kubo (18:13)
It’s a lot of dishes in my kid’s room and a lot of

dishes by Mr. Kubo’s desk. So it’s two trips. Two to three trips from the girl’s room, two trips from Brian’s desk and then

Kathi Lipp (18:20)
Got it. So you’re having to make multiple trips. Got it. Okay. And then

And and you’re

loading you’re soaking all that. Okay, that makes more sense. Okay Okay, that makes total sense. And I think doing doing a round of dishes I really feel like when everything else in your life falls apart the two things that you need to stay on top of are dishes and laundry because Mm-hmm. Yeah

Tonya Kubo (18:49)
Yes and I will say just really quickly that 25 minutes

does include a good five minute temper tantrum of my gosh what is growing in this thing.

Kathi Lipp (19:00)
I love it. Yeah, the the the Dishes and laundry if you stay on top of those like I don’t care how crunchy your kitchen floor gets I don’t care, you know at the I would say the third thing but this doesn’t have to be done as Much is staying on top of bills. Those are the important things that if you fall behind on them It’s going to be super painful to recover from them

Tonya Kubo (19:01)
That’s in there too.

No.

Mm-hmm. yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:25)
But if you can stay on top of those three things, it takes almost the same amount of energy to mop the floor when it’s been a week or five weeks. Like, I don’t want you to have to go five weeks, but if you need to in a crisis, you can. And yeah, and also stay on top of your garbage and recycling. number nine. This is my last thing of things I don’t do now that I live clutter free.

Tonya Kubo (19:37)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:55)
Okay, I try not to I’m still working through this but I’m much better than I used to be I don’t compare my stuff to my friends stuff so Or stuff on social media. There is always a new thing That would make my life two percent easier or two percent better Not not my entire life if something made my entire life two percent better you bet I’m going to invest in that but like

Tonya Kubo (20:04)
Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:25)
Let’s say, know, my, my robot vacuum, there are now robot vacuums that you can control remotely. Like I could be at my mom’s house and now I could get that doesn’t make my life better enough to upgrade my robot. Like my robots fine. We get along. We, she does what she needs to do. I’m sorry. It’s normally a he. I don’t know why I said she, cause I like for all my domestic labor to be he’s.

Tonya Kubo (20:34)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:55)
Because I just think that’s fair But I Just because somebody else has something that has made their life Infamates Lee better. It doesn’t mean that I need to upgrade it. I I try when I see you wearing a cute sweater I’m not going to say you know what? need that cute sweater. I’m gonna I’m one of things I’m trying to do is go into my own closet

Tonya Kubo (21:09)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:22)
and see

my own cute sweaters and the things that make me happy. So I’m trying really hard to reframe what my friends have. And also that can be a form of jealousy. I can just say, you know what? I’m really happy that Tonya has that sweater. I think she looks great in it. She’s having fun with it. And it makes me happy to see her in it. And it doesn’t have to be, I don’t have to own it for it to bring me happiness. So trying to stay out of that comparison trap.

Tonya Kubo (21:33)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (21:52)
And I’m sure when you go into people’s houses that have floors, that can be hard.

Tonya Kubo (21:57)
I do have floor envy right now, I’m not gonna lie. If you’ve got luxury vinyl plank, I’m eyeballing your floors, let me tell ya.

Kathi Lipp (21:59)
I you do.

And I do have that upstairs and I wrestled over that decision for about two years And I’m so glad we pulled the trigger It’s so painful to get flooring done just because of all the moving and shifting and all that kind of stuff Okay, Tonya round out our list. Give us number ten. All right

Tonya Kubo (22:09)
Yeah, no.

It is.

My cluttery peeps will get this. I no longer gain comfort or security from having full shelves, full drawers, etc.

Kathi Lipp (22:33)
yeah, space scares us, doesn’t it? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (22:37)
Space is scary because space is scarcity and lack and my gosh what

if I don’t have enough. But if things are full even if they’re full of stuff that you haven’t worn in 22 years you believe you have enough clothes if for some reason they stopped making all clothing.

Kathi Lipp (22:48)
Right?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so Tonya, this is so interesting. A number of people on TikTok and other apps are doing a no buy 2025, right? And the conventional wisdom is declutter your closet so you can see what you have. And then, so you know what you have, because it is, it’s easier to see what you have when you have less stuff in your closet.

Tonya Kubo (23:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (23:22)
But I heard one woman, I thought this was so interesting. And I’m just gonna throw this out there for your reaction. She goes, I am not decluttering before my 2025. Because when I declutter, I feel like there is empty space. And I feel this urge to fill that space with shopping, with thrifting, with all these other things. So what she is doing is she is.

Tonya Kubo (23:39)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (23:50)
putting some of her clothes into another closet, including clothes she likes, so that she will, she remember, I’ve got more stuff. I don’t know, how does that hit you? I thought it was really interesting. Really.

Tonya Kubo (23:53)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I have a friend who does that actually. she has,

yeah, so she boxes up all of her extra stuff, even if it’s in the current season. And she has it all in like the rafters of her garage. But whenever she’s like, I wanna go shopping, she just goes and she takes a box down and she trades out pieces.

Kathi Lipp (24:10)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You know, I think it’s really interesting. And so I’m not saying one way is better than the other. I’m going to try the other closet boxing because yeah, when I pull out all my winter stuff, I’m so happy. I’m like, I never need to go shopping again. And then after about two weeks, I’m like, you know, people are really into these green grandpa sweaters and like, okay, Kathi, stop, stop, stop, stop.

Tonya Kubo (24:50)
Yeah,

see, and I’m the person, I want all of my clothing to be able to fit in this much of my closet. Like, I don’t wanna ever change anything out. I don’t wanna work that hard. I’m just so, like, I don’t wanna say lazy, but really it’s just like, that is just something that takes such a high level of perceived energy for me that I’m like, I’m good.

Kathi Lipp (24:56)
Yes, you.

Yeah.

Okay, see, even within our Cluttery community, we all have our own little quirks. And that’s why it’s okay for you to forge your own path, but think about the wisdom that will get you to the next space in your Clutter-free journey. I hope one of these has inspired you today. Tonya, thanks so much for hanging out with me.

Tonya Kubo (25:18)
We do.

Thanks for having me.

Kathi Lipp (25:37)
And friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter-free life you always wanted to live.

 

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Hey there, friend!

In this encouraging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo reveal the top 10 habits they’ve developed since embracing a clutter-free lifestyle. This candid conversation offers listeners practical insights into how living clutter-free transforms daily routines and decision-making. 

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Join the conversation and get ready to implement life-changing habits that will help you live every day with less clutter and more life.

Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

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Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

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Meet Our Guest 

 

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

 

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Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:10)
Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with the Clutter-Free queen. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. Okay, we don’t often do top 10 lists, but we’re doing a top 10 list today. I, so this is a two-parter. The first part is 10 things I don’t do now that I live clutter-free.

Tonya Kubo (00:24)
Hey Kathi

Kathi Lipp (00:40)
And next week, we’re going to talk about 10 things I do now that I live clutter free. And so I want to talk to you about how your life has changed, the things that you have stopped. And I just realized I told you we were going to do exactly the opposite podcast, but you know what? We’re we’re just fine. We’re just rolling with it. You know, we’re going to live in the moment here. And so I’m going to get us kicked off because I I think

Tonya Kubo (00:53)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:10)
People would not recognize my life From before clutter free now clutter free has not always I did not say hey I’m gonna start something called clutter free and now I’m gonna change my life like I changed my life and Then I thought I’m not the only one like this I wrote a book called clutter free and then I met my friend Tonya Kubo who seemed like the most put-together human being on the planet, but told me no

Tonya Kubo (01:21)
No.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:39)
her life was a mess too, and we started to figure all this stuff out together. And what a gift that was because as much as the book helped people, I know that our Clutter-Free Academy, Clutter-Free for Life and this podcast have helped just exponentially more people. I really, people don’t believe that I was cluttery at one point. And I’m like, no, I’m still cluttery at some points, but.

Tonya Kubo (01:57)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

still cluttering. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (02:09)
I’m not afraid

to invite you into my house. So I wanted to talk about what are some key things that look different now than they did when I was clutter free. number one, I don’t save up decluttering for the weekends. And this has been a huge shift for me because I would always think as I’ve…

Tonya Kubo (02:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:32)
pretty much always been a Monday through Friday, nine to five kind of person and who actually works nine to five. Let’s be clear, it’s eight to six. But I’ve pretty much been that person my whole life and I was just so busy during the week that I’m like, I’m just gonna save all this up for the weekends. And I don’t live like that anymore. Like as I am leaving a room, I’m like, are there things I can grab to throw away, to put away, to declutter?

Tonya Kubo (02:39)
Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (03:00)
Is that similar for you?

Tonya Kubo (03:03)
Yeah, I mean, I still think, you know, because my kids are younger, right? Like our house is always in some state of shambles, but you know, little things that I used to on Fridays clean off my desk, for instance. And now it’s just at the end of the day, right? It just is so much easier to take like a handful of stuff at the end of each day than to have to make multiple trips every Friday.

Kathi Lipp (03:06)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

It makes such a difference, right? Because I don’t know, there’s just something about like, I’ve saved this up for an entire week. You know, instead of just saying, okay, a little bit of time, a little bit of time, my brain has shifted into small amounts of decluttering instead of huge mountains of decluttering. Okay, so that’s number one. Tonya, we’re going back and forth. Tonya, what’s number two?

Tonya Kubo (03:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Kathi Lipp (03:54)
something that you don’t do now that you live clutter-free.

Tonya Kubo (03:57)
Okay, so this might seem silly, but I genuinely used to think unloading the dishwasher took 30 minutes and now I realize it takes about three and a half. So I don’t put off unloading the dishwasher till the weekend. Like seriously, I made it into such a big job in my head and I don’t need more.

Kathi Lipp (04:11)
Right?

Yeah, yes,

I feel like doing the dishes could take a half hour if you’ve got a lot of dishes piled up if you have things that need to be soaked like, you know, deep, deep scrub. Right.

Tonya Kubo (04:24)
Right, but I didn’t say doing the dishes, Kathi. I just

said unload the dishwasher.

Kathi Lipp (04:30)
just thinking maybe that’s why your brain was playing tricks on you and here’s what I know is when you when you unload the dishes here’s the magical thing it’s easier to load the dishes I know that seems like it should be obvious but our cluttery people will get that

Tonya Kubo (04:42)
Right.

Yeah, no, exactly, exactly.

Kathi Lipp (04:49)
Yeah, okay. Number three, I don’t stand next to the gas pump while it’s filling up. I, okay, so I think a lot of our cluttering friends will get this. I went, those small moments, like just like you were talking about with the microwave, I unload the dishwasher in the two and a half minutes that my, or I at least get it started in the two and a half minutes that my oatmeal is cooking.

Tonya Kubo (05:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:18)
And

so now I am married to somebody who does quiet contemplation while his coffee is warming up. And I’m like, you know what, we just live different lives. while I’m pumping my gas, I clean out the car. I just grab a few things. I throw them into the garbage. I feel like that’s free garbage. Garbage is such a big deal up here.

Tonya Kubo (05:24)
Hahaha

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes,

it is free garbage. I am right there with you.

Kathi Lipp (05:45)
It makes me so happy. I can’t even stand it. Yeah, I’m never somebody who would bring garbage from my house to throw away. I’ve heard of people doing that. I know. But if I’ve got a McDonald’s cup, that that’s going in the garbage while I’m pumping. It is I’m doing all the things and even like our truck takes a long time to fill up. I have been known to we have a like a hand vac in the truck.

Tonya Kubo (05:53)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yup.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:14)
and I’ve been known to like vacuum things out while I’m doing, yeah, it makes me so happy I can’t even stand it. Okay, but I’m doing, what the core concept behind that is it just takes a moment to make a small difference. And like you just said with the unloading dishwasher and even with the, I don’t save up decluttering for the weekends. If I can do a little bit each day, man, the weekends can be for.

Tonya Kubo (06:17)
Nice.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:42)
fun or bigger projects or things like that. Okay, number four, Tonya, what’s something that you don’t do now that you’re living clutter free?

Tonya Kubo (06:44)
Mm-hmm.

I don’t go shopping when I’m tired, hungry, or frustrated.

Kathi Lipp (06:56)
That’s my favorite time to go shopping. Okay, tell me more. Right.

Tonya Kubo (06:58)
It’s everybody’s favorite time to go shopping.

Right. But I mean, something that I learned early on in my clutter free journey is that when I’m tired, I’m hungry or I’m frustrated, my tolerance, like my my impulse control is lower and my desire to soothe is higher. And so I feel like everything I see at the store is going to make me feel better. And it is not.

Kathi Lipp (07:16)
Yeah.

Mmm, good.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (07:26)
to make me feel better. I am still going to leave the store tired, hungry, and frustrated so I may as well just solve those problems before I go.

Kathi Lipp (07:33)
Okay, can I tell you how I’m even worse at this and it’s something I need to correct in my own life. So I go to the store, which is a chore, right? That is an errand. Right. And I feel like because I have done that, even when I was living in San Jose and things were like five minutes, like, look at me checking things off of my list. I deserve a little treat, a little treaty treat. Can we just say that shopping and Target

Tonya Kubo (07:42)
Yeah, it’s a jaunt for you. It’s a jaunt.

Hahaha

Kathi Lipp (08:02)
It’s so much better when you have Starbucks. And so like this is the thinking I have to unpack all the time in my cluttery journey. it just, makes a difference. It makes a difference when you say, and I just, but I try not to go, I pack snacks now in our car so that we are not so tempted.

Tonya Kubo (08:05)
I’m sure it is, I’m sure it is.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:32)
Like it’s okay every once in a while to go to Starbucks, but you don’t get Starbucks every time you leave the house. Yes, okay. And so tired, hungry, frustrated will lead you to, and here’s the other part of that that I think is you’re so wise because I’ll just throw things in my cart and I’ll say I’ll return them later if I’m frustrated. Like, you know, don’t go shopping for jeans when you’re tired, frustrated or hungry. That’s just the meanest thing you could do to yourself.

Tonya Kubo (08:32)
Yeah.

Mmm.

No.

Kathi Lipp (09:00)
but then I’ll buy all the jeans and then I’m like, now I have to take them back. And then like, I already have a return right now of a shirt and it’s, we’re recording this around Christmas time. And I’m like, the last thing I want to do on earth is go into a store and return a shirt. Like I can’t think of anything I want to do less. Okay. Number five, I don’t leave a room without scanning the room. So.

Tonya Kubo (09:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm

Kathi Lipp (09:27)
What that means is I don’t, I don’t just walk into another room. I will walk into another room, but I will grab the dish that’s on my desk. I will grab the shirt that needs to be returned. Can you tell I’m going through stuff? I will grab the jacket that needs to be hung downstairs. And here’s why I think that this matters. Even if I’m just going into Roger’s office, which is still on the top of the floor.

I’ll move those things to the top of the stairs so that I used to think if I’m gonna do something, I need to do it all the way. And no, I just need to push it forward. I need to push that chore forward. And that makes a huge difference. It’s like, even if I can’t unload the entire dishwasher while my oatmeal is cooking, I’m pushing it forward enough and I’m yelling up to Roger,

Tonya Kubo (10:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:26)
The dishes are clean, I’m just not done yet. And so he knows not to put dirty dishes in there. But if you can push it forward, then the next time you’re reheating your coffee, you can push it forward another minute and you might get it done. And so scanning a room, seeing what can I push into place? Because here’s what I know, if I leave it all until I have time, then I’m gonna spend half a day going up and down the stairs. And that sounds like my worst nightmare, I hate that stuff.

Tonya Kubo (10:29)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (10:56)
Yeah, okay. So we have gone through our top five. We’re gonna take a quick break, pay some bills. We’re gonna come back and Tonya is gonna talk about how she doesn’t apologize. I can’t wait to hear about how you do this. Teach me, Obi-Wan. We’ll be right back. Okay, guys, we are back with 10 things I don’t do now that I live clutter free. So Tonya, you say you don’t apologize. For what?

Tonya Kubo (11:23)
I

apologize for the condition of my house.

Kathi Lipp (11:26)
So tell me more. Tell me how I can get brave and be really like, just come on in.

Tonya Kubo (11:33)
well, just stop doing it. I mean, that’s how I did it, right? It was like a cold turkey. Like, I think there was a bit of a transition of where I would say, I probably should apologize for the state of my house, but I won’t. But I just don’t. And, you know, some people come in and say stuff and some people don’t, and I don’t really care. Because what I realize is we all have a different standard. You know, I used to apologize. And I realized that a lot of people

Kathi Lipp (11:37)
wow.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:03)
Like, first of all, I would apologize after spending hours doing a crisis clean because I knew other people would come in and like, and feel like my house was in complete disarray. And I was like, why am I acting like I didn’t just kill myself to make this house look nicer? And then I got to where, you know what? What do I care? mean, people come in, sometimes people are like, wow, you must be really busy. I am. That’s not untrue. I am really busy.

Kathi Lipp (12:13)
Mmm.

Right, right.

It’s a great friend test, right? Can we hang? Can we hang? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:33)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I’m just

like, there’s nothing they could say that’s probably not true to some degree. And I’ve had like repair guys come in, it’s funny, is because the repair guys will come in and our front room doesn’t have flooring. We tore up the flooring and then building costs went up so we have not replaced the flooring. And they’ll go to put the booties on them like, yeah, that’s cute. You don’t have to do that here. And they’ll look around and they’re like, okay.

Kathi Lipp (12:49)
All right. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:01)
Every now and then they’ll say, are you sure? Like, yeah, no, we’re good here.

Kathi Lipp (13:06)
Yeah.

Well, it’s so true. Our lives are all in transition, right? And when you have kids, the amount of day-to-day clutter goes up exponentially. Or maybe you’re in the midst of a big project. You know, I’ll never forget during the launch of Clutter Free, book, the state my house was in. It was like, we can’t take any pictures. And just recently,

Tonya Kubo (13:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:35)
Tenneil who manages our social media said, Kathi, can we get a video of you pushing in a chair? And right now we’re in Christmas crazies. I’m like, it would take me 45 minutes to get to a place to push in a chair. Right, it’s, yeah, because there’s all the fudge making supplies right there, yeah. So are you really, are you using marshmallow fluff in it?

Tonya Kubo (13:45)
No. To push in the chair. You’re like, “‘Cause I can’t get to the chair to push it in.”

Yes, I’m making fudge this weekend too. Anyway, I am.

I am using marshmallow fluff in it. I took a whole class on how to make fudge using marshmallow fluff. It was fun.

Kathi Lipp (14:05)
I saw that I saw that well,

I saw the fudge class. I didn’t know that there was the marshmallow fluff. Yeah, I’m very excited I’m just using a recipe off the internet But as you know, we live next to not next to you know half I don’t know 20 minutes away from a gourmet chocolate shop, which is the only Yeah, they’re a whiner They ship they’re so good but also let’s just say their fudge has gourmet prices and I’m like

Tonya Kubo (14:16)
Mm-hmm.

Little John’s, they ship. Little John’s, you should order from Little John’s.

Yes

Kathi Lipp (14:35)
How much would it cost for me to do this? And Roger’s like, we can buy their other stuff. We never have to buy fudge again. And I was like, I’m an indentured fudge servant now. Got it. Okay. Okay. You know what? It’s good. Hey, speaking of fudge, number seven, I don’t buy all the gear for hobbies unless I have a pattern of doing the hobby. Because here’s what I’ve discovered, Tonya. You know what my hobby is? Buying the stuff for hobbies.

Tonya Kubo (14:44)
Yes, I am too.

Mmm.

I

was gonna say preparing to have a hobby.

Kathi Lipp (15:07)
So here’s what I said, know, like one of the recipes that I am preparing right now called for a candy thermometer. And I’m like, ugh.

Tonya Kubo (15:17)
I need that for the fudge recipe with the marshmallow fluff. You need a candy thermometer.

Kathi Lipp (15:20)
Okay, so here’s what I told

myself if I prepare three recipes right now that don’t require the the thermometer if I if I prepare these three Christmas gift II things then I am allowed to buy a Candy thermometer and I got one by the way Michaels has 30 % off coupons for a while now. So go check that out I got the I think it’s the Wilson one but

Tonya Kubo (15:34)
Mm-hmm.

Ew.

Kathi Lipp (15:49)
I cannot tell you how many hobbies I’ve invested in and had to keep that stuff because I invest I told myself I’ve invested so heavily I need to keep all this stuff. It just it doesn’t make sense and it’s not the right thing. So I no longer I need to have a pattern of Can I start this hobby with stuff I have or can I start this hobby for less than ten dollars? And if I find that I really enjoy it

Tonya Kubo (15:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:19)
Then I will keep going but I am NOT going to go I’ll just say my history is buying at a professional level and performing at an amateur level like it’s not good

Tonya Kubo (16:30)
I

know that feeling though. If I have the same paints and brushes that Bob Ross has, I will make the same pictures that Bob Ross made.

Kathi Lipp (16:37)
Right.

Right, right.

And you know, our friend Cheri Gregory, friend of the podcast, Cheri Gregory calls it buying to become and I have done that for years and years. Okay, Tonya, number eight.

Tonya Kubo (16:49)
Yeah.

Okay, I kind of stole from you because you said that you scan a room before you leave. Before I go to bed, I make a round through the house specifically for dirty dishes. And here’s my, if I made a round through my house for decluttering, I would never make it to bed. But I can make a pass through my teeny tiny house just for dirty dishes in about 25 minutes. And it makes my life so much easier that

Kathi Lipp (16:58)
Yeah. Yeah.

so smart.

No, of course not.

Hmm

Tonya Kubo (17:24)
Like, know, because all run into bulls, where are all the bulls? The bulls are in the kids’ room underneath the bed. Why are they underneath the bed? I actually can’t answer that question, but that is where I find them.

Kathi Lipp (17:33)
Okay, Tonya, we are missing a bowl right now. There are just two of us. There are just two of us. This giant glass bowl, we cannot find. Is it under Lily’s bed? That’s my question now.

Tonya Kubo (17:36)
Maybe it’s under my bed!

It’s probably under Lily’s bed, and this is the worst of it, right? Is the way that Abby’s bed works, it sits lower to the ground. So Abby shoves stuff underneath Lily’s bed too. It’s not even all Lily’s fault.

Kathi Lipp (17:52)
Ugh.

Poor Lily. I’m sorry Lily. I did not mean to throw you under the bus bus or the bed Okay, so you do so what 25 minutes that seems like a long time so break that down for me Really okay

Tonya Kubo (18:13)
It’s a lot of dishes in my kid’s room and a lot of

dishes by Mr. Kubo’s desk. So it’s two trips. Two to three trips from the girl’s room, two trips from Brian’s desk and then

Kathi Lipp (18:20)
Got it. So you’re having to make multiple trips. Got it. Okay. And then

And and you’re

loading you’re soaking all that. Okay, that makes more sense. Okay Okay, that makes total sense. And I think doing doing a round of dishes I really feel like when everything else in your life falls apart the two things that you need to stay on top of are dishes and laundry because Mm-hmm. Yeah

Tonya Kubo (18:49)
Yes and I will say just really quickly that 25 minutes

does include a good five minute temper tantrum of my gosh what is growing in this thing.

Kathi Lipp (19:00)
I love it. Yeah, the the the Dishes and laundry if you stay on top of those like I don’t care how crunchy your kitchen floor gets I don’t care, you know at the I would say the third thing but this doesn’t have to be done as Much is staying on top of bills. Those are the important things that if you fall behind on them It’s going to be super painful to recover from them

Tonya Kubo (19:01)
That’s in there too.

No.

Mm-hmm. yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:25)
But if you can stay on top of those three things, it takes almost the same amount of energy to mop the floor when it’s been a week or five weeks. Like, I don’t want you to have to go five weeks, but if you need to in a crisis, you can. And yeah, and also stay on top of your garbage and recycling. number nine. This is my last thing of things I don’t do now that I live clutter free.

Tonya Kubo (19:37)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:55)
Okay, I try not to I’m still working through this but I’m much better than I used to be I don’t compare my stuff to my friends stuff so Or stuff on social media. There is always a new thing That would make my life two percent easier or two percent better Not not my entire life if something made my entire life two percent better you bet I’m going to invest in that but like

Tonya Kubo (20:04)
Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:25)
Let’s say, know, my, my robot vacuum, there are now robot vacuums that you can control remotely. Like I could be at my mom’s house and now I could get that doesn’t make my life better enough to upgrade my robot. Like my robots fine. We get along. We, she does what she needs to do. I’m sorry. It’s normally a he. I don’t know why I said she, cause I like for all my domestic labor to be he’s.

Tonya Kubo (20:34)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:55)
Because I just think that’s fair But I Just because somebody else has something that has made their life Infamates Lee better. It doesn’t mean that I need to upgrade it. I I try when I see you wearing a cute sweater I’m not going to say you know what? need that cute sweater. I’m gonna I’m one of things I’m trying to do is go into my own closet

Tonya Kubo (21:09)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:22)
and see

my own cute sweaters and the things that make me happy. So I’m trying really hard to reframe what my friends have. And also that can be a form of jealousy. I can just say, you know what? I’m really happy that Tonya has that sweater. I think she looks great in it. She’s having fun with it. And it makes me happy to see her in it. And it doesn’t have to be, I don’t have to own it for it to bring me happiness. So trying to stay out of that comparison trap.

Tonya Kubo (21:33)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (21:52)
And I’m sure when you go into people’s houses that have floors, that can be hard.

Tonya Kubo (21:57)
I do have floor envy right now, I’m not gonna lie. If you’ve got luxury vinyl plank, I’m eyeballing your floors, let me tell ya.

Kathi Lipp (21:59)
I you do.

And I do have that upstairs and I wrestled over that decision for about two years And I’m so glad we pulled the trigger It’s so painful to get flooring done just because of all the moving and shifting and all that kind of stuff Okay, Tonya round out our list. Give us number ten. All right

Tonya Kubo (22:09)
Yeah, no.

It is.

My cluttery peeps will get this. I no longer gain comfort or security from having full shelves, full drawers, etc.

Kathi Lipp (22:33)
yeah, space scares us, doesn’t it? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (22:37)
Space is scary because space is scarcity and lack and my gosh what

if I don’t have enough. But if things are full even if they’re full of stuff that you haven’t worn in 22 years you believe you have enough clothes if for some reason they stopped making all clothing.

Kathi Lipp (22:48)
Right?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so Tonya, this is so interesting. A number of people on TikTok and other apps are doing a no buy 2025, right? And the conventional wisdom is declutter your closet so you can see what you have. And then, so you know what you have, because it is, it’s easier to see what you have when you have less stuff in your closet.

Tonya Kubo (23:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (23:22)
But I heard one woman, I thought this was so interesting. And I’m just gonna throw this out there for your reaction. She goes, I am not decluttering before my 2025. Because when I declutter, I feel like there is empty space. And I feel this urge to fill that space with shopping, with thrifting, with all these other things. So what she is doing is she is.

Tonya Kubo (23:39)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (23:50)
putting some of her clothes into another closet, including clothes she likes, so that she will, she remember, I’ve got more stuff. I don’t know, how does that hit you? I thought it was really interesting. Really.

Tonya Kubo (23:53)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I have a friend who does that actually. she has,

yeah, so she boxes up all of her extra stuff, even if it’s in the current season. And she has it all in like the rafters of her garage. But whenever she’s like, I wanna go shopping, she just goes and she takes a box down and she trades out pieces.

Kathi Lipp (24:10)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You know, I think it’s really interesting. And so I’m not saying one way is better than the other. I’m going to try the other closet boxing because yeah, when I pull out all my winter stuff, I’m so happy. I’m like, I never need to go shopping again. And then after about two weeks, I’m like, you know, people are really into these green grandpa sweaters and like, okay, Kathi, stop, stop, stop, stop.

Tonya Kubo (24:50)
Yeah,

see, and I’m the person, I want all of my clothing to be able to fit in this much of my closet. Like, I don’t wanna ever change anything out. I don’t wanna work that hard. I’m just so, like, I don’t wanna say lazy, but really it’s just like, that is just something that takes such a high level of perceived energy for me that I’m like, I’m good.

Kathi Lipp (24:56)
Yes, you.

Yeah.

Okay, see, even within our Cluttery community, we all have our own little quirks. And that’s why it’s okay for you to forge your own path, but think about the wisdom that will get you to the next space in your Clutter-free journey. I hope one of these has inspired you today. Tonya, thanks so much for hanging out with me.

Tonya Kubo (25:18)
We do.

Thanks for having me.

Kathi Lipp (25:37)
And friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter-free life you always wanted to live.

 

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    Tonya Kubo Picture
    Transcript

    Kathi Lipp (00:10)
    Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with the Clutter-Free queen. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. Okay, we don’t often do top 10 lists, but we’re doing a top 10 list today. I, so this is a two-parter. The first part is 10 things I don’t do now that I live clutter-free.

    Tonya Kubo (00:24)
    Hey Kathi

    Kathi Lipp (00:40)
    And next week, we’re going to talk about 10 things I do now that I live clutter free. And so I want to talk to you about how your life has changed, the things that you have stopped. And I just realized I told you we were going to do exactly the opposite podcast, but you know what? We’re we’re just fine. We’re just rolling with it. You know, we’re going to live in the moment here. And so I’m going to get us kicked off because I I think

    Tonya Kubo (00:53)
    Okay.

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (01:10)
    People would not recognize my life From before clutter free now clutter free has not always I did not say hey I’m gonna start something called clutter free and now I’m gonna change my life like I changed my life and Then I thought I’m not the only one like this I wrote a book called clutter free and then I met my friend Tonya Kubo who seemed like the most put-together human being on the planet, but told me no

    Tonya Kubo (01:21)
    No.

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (01:39)
    her life was a mess too, and we started to figure all this stuff out together. And what a gift that was because as much as the book helped people, I know that our Clutter-Free Academy, Clutter-Free for Life and this podcast have helped just exponentially more people. I really, people don’t believe that I was cluttery at one point. And I’m like, no, I’m still cluttery at some points, but.

    Tonya Kubo (01:57)
    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Yeah,

    still cluttering. Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (02:09)
    I’m not afraid

    to invite you into my house. So I wanted to talk about what are some key things that look different now than they did when I was clutter free. number one, I don’t save up decluttering for the weekends. And this has been a huge shift for me because I would always think as I’ve…

    Tonya Kubo (02:12)
    Mm-hmm.

    Mmm.

    Kathi Lipp (02:32)
    pretty much always been a Monday through Friday, nine to five kind of person and who actually works nine to five. Let’s be clear, it’s eight to six. But I’ve pretty much been that person my whole life and I was just so busy during the week that I’m like, I’m just gonna save all this up for the weekends. And I don’t live like that anymore. Like as I am leaving a room, I’m like, are there things I can grab to throw away, to put away, to declutter?

    Tonya Kubo (02:39)
    Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (03:00)
    Is that similar for you?

    Tonya Kubo (03:03)
    Yeah, I mean, I still think, you know, because my kids are younger, right? Like our house is always in some state of shambles, but you know, little things that I used to on Fridays clean off my desk, for instance. And now it’s just at the end of the day, right? It just is so much easier to take like a handful of stuff at the end of each day than to have to make multiple trips every Friday.

    Kathi Lipp (03:06)
    Yes.

    Mm-hmm.

    Right.

    It makes such a difference, right? Because I don’t know, there’s just something about like, I’ve saved this up for an entire week. You know, instead of just saying, okay, a little bit of time, a little bit of time, my brain has shifted into small amounts of decluttering instead of huge mountains of decluttering. Okay, so that’s number one. Tonya, we’re going back and forth. Tonya, what’s number two?

    Tonya Kubo (03:33)
    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Right?

    Kathi Lipp (03:54)
    something that you don’t do now that you live clutter-free.

    Tonya Kubo (03:57)
    Okay, so this might seem silly, but I genuinely used to think unloading the dishwasher took 30 minutes and now I realize it takes about three and a half. So I don’t put off unloading the dishwasher till the weekend. Like seriously, I made it into such a big job in my head and I don’t need more.

    Kathi Lipp (04:11)
    Right?

    Yeah, yes,

    I feel like doing the dishes could take a half hour if you’ve got a lot of dishes piled up if you have things that need to be soaked like, you know, deep, deep scrub. Right.

    Tonya Kubo (04:24)
    Right, but I didn’t say doing the dishes, Kathi. I just

    said unload the dishwasher.

    Kathi Lipp (04:30)
    just thinking maybe that’s why your brain was playing tricks on you and here’s what I know is when you when you unload the dishes here’s the magical thing it’s easier to load the dishes I know that seems like it should be obvious but our cluttery people will get that

    Tonya Kubo (04:42)
    Right.

    Yeah, no, exactly, exactly.

    Kathi Lipp (04:49)
    Yeah, okay. Number three, I don’t stand next to the gas pump while it’s filling up. I, okay, so I think a lot of our cluttering friends will get this. I went, those small moments, like just like you were talking about with the microwave, I unload the dishwasher in the two and a half minutes that my, or I at least get it started in the two and a half minutes that my oatmeal is cooking.

    Tonya Kubo (05:01)
    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (05:18)
    And

    so now I am married to somebody who does quiet contemplation while his coffee is warming up. And I’m like, you know what, we just live different lives. while I’m pumping my gas, I clean out the car. I just grab a few things. I throw them into the garbage. I feel like that’s free garbage. Garbage is such a big deal up here.

    Tonya Kubo (05:24)
    Hahaha

    Right.

    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Yes,

    it is free garbage. I am right there with you.

    Kathi Lipp (05:45)
    It makes me so happy. I can’t even stand it. Yeah, I’m never somebody who would bring garbage from my house to throw away. I’ve heard of people doing that. I know. But if I’ve got a McDonald’s cup, that that’s going in the garbage while I’m pumping. It is I’m doing all the things and even like our truck takes a long time to fill up. I have been known to we have a like a hand vac in the truck.

    Tonya Kubo (05:53)
    Right. Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Yup.

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (06:14)
    and I’ve been known to like vacuum things out while I’m doing, yeah, it makes me so happy I can’t even stand it. Okay, but I’m doing, what the core concept behind that is it just takes a moment to make a small difference. And like you just said with the unloading dishwasher and even with the, I don’t save up decluttering for the weekends. If I can do a little bit each day, man, the weekends can be for.

    Tonya Kubo (06:17)
    Nice.

    Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (06:42)
    fun or bigger projects or things like that. Okay, number four, Tonya, what’s something that you don’t do now that you’re living clutter free?

    Tonya Kubo (06:44)
    Mm-hmm.

    I don’t go shopping when I’m tired, hungry, or frustrated.

    Kathi Lipp (06:56)
    That’s my favorite time to go shopping. Okay, tell me more. Right.

    Tonya Kubo (06:58)
    It’s everybody’s favorite time to go shopping.

    Right. But I mean, something that I learned early on in my clutter free journey is that when I’m tired, I’m hungry or I’m frustrated, my tolerance, like my my impulse control is lower and my desire to soothe is higher. And so I feel like everything I see at the store is going to make me feel better. And it is not.

    Kathi Lipp (07:16)
    Yeah.

    Mmm, good.

    Right.

    Tonya Kubo (07:26)
    to make me feel better. I am still going to leave the store tired, hungry, and frustrated so I may as well just solve those problems before I go.

    Kathi Lipp (07:33)
    Okay, can I tell you how I’m even worse at this and it’s something I need to correct in my own life. So I go to the store, which is a chore, right? That is an errand. Right. And I feel like because I have done that, even when I was living in San Jose and things were like five minutes, like, look at me checking things off of my list. I deserve a little treat, a little treaty treat. Can we just say that shopping and Target

    Tonya Kubo (07:42)
    Yeah, it’s a jaunt for you. It’s a jaunt.

    Hahaha

    Kathi Lipp (08:02)
    It’s so much better when you have Starbucks. And so like this is the thinking I have to unpack all the time in my cluttery journey. it just, makes a difference. It makes a difference when you say, and I just, but I try not to go, I pack snacks now in our car so that we are not so tempted.

    Tonya Kubo (08:05)
    I’m sure it is, I’m sure it is.

    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (08:32)
    Like it’s okay every once in a while to go to Starbucks, but you don’t get Starbucks every time you leave the house. Yes, okay. And so tired, hungry, frustrated will lead you to, and here’s the other part of that that I think is you’re so wise because I’ll just throw things in my cart and I’ll say I’ll return them later if I’m frustrated. Like, you know, don’t go shopping for jeans when you’re tired, frustrated or hungry. That’s just the meanest thing you could do to yourself.

    Tonya Kubo (08:32)
    Yeah.

    Mmm.

    No.

    Kathi Lipp (09:00)
    but then I’ll buy all the jeans and then I’m like, now I have to take them back. And then like, I already have a return right now of a shirt and it’s, we’re recording this around Christmas time. And I’m like, the last thing I want to do on earth is go into a store and return a shirt. Like I can’t think of anything I want to do less. Okay. Number five, I don’t leave a room without scanning the room. So.

    Tonya Kubo (09:04)
    Mm-hmm.

    Yeah.

    Hmm

    Kathi Lipp (09:27)
    What that means is I don’t, I don’t just walk into another room. I will walk into another room, but I will grab the dish that’s on my desk. I will grab the shirt that needs to be returned. Can you tell I’m going through stuff? I will grab the jacket that needs to be hung downstairs. And here’s why I think that this matters. Even if I’m just going into Roger’s office, which is still on the top of the floor.

    I’ll move those things to the top of the stairs so that I used to think if I’m gonna do something, I need to do it all the way. And no, I just need to push it forward. I need to push that chore forward. And that makes a huge difference. It’s like, even if I can’t unload the entire dishwasher while my oatmeal is cooking, I’m pushing it forward enough and I’m yelling up to Roger,

    Tonya Kubo (10:00)
    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Right.

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (10:26)
    The dishes are clean, I’m just not done yet. And so he knows not to put dirty dishes in there. But if you can push it forward, then the next time you’re reheating your coffee, you can push it forward another minute and you might get it done. And so scanning a room, seeing what can I push into place? Because here’s what I know, if I leave it all until I have time, then I’m gonna spend half a day going up and down the stairs. And that sounds like my worst nightmare, I hate that stuff.

    Tonya Kubo (10:29)
    Mm-hmm.

    Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (10:56)
    Yeah, okay. So we have gone through our top five. We’re gonna take a quick break, pay some bills. We’re gonna come back and Tonya is gonna talk about how she doesn’t apologize. I can’t wait to hear about how you do this. Teach me, Obi-Wan. We’ll be right back. Okay, guys, we are back with 10 things I don’t do now that I live clutter free. So Tonya, you say you don’t apologize. For what?

    Tonya Kubo (11:23)
    I

    apologize for the condition of my house.

    Kathi Lipp (11:26)
    So tell me more. Tell me how I can get brave and be really like, just come on in.

    Tonya Kubo (11:33)
    well, just stop doing it. I mean, that’s how I did it, right? It was like a cold turkey. Like, I think there was a bit of a transition of where I would say, I probably should apologize for the state of my house, but I won’t. But I just don’t. And, you know, some people come in and say stuff and some people don’t, and I don’t really care. Because what I realize is we all have a different standard. You know, I used to apologize. And I realized that a lot of people

    Kathi Lipp (11:37)
    wow.

    Mm-hmm.

    Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (12:03)
    Like, first of all, I would apologize after spending hours doing a crisis clean because I knew other people would come in and like, and feel like my house was in complete disarray. And I was like, why am I acting like I didn’t just kill myself to make this house look nicer? And then I got to where, you know what? What do I care? mean, people come in, sometimes people are like, wow, you must be really busy. I am. That’s not untrue. I am really busy.

    Kathi Lipp (12:13)
    Mmm.

    Right, right.

    It’s a great friend test, right? Can we hang? Can we hang? Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (12:33)
    Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I’m just

    like, there’s nothing they could say that’s probably not true to some degree. And I’ve had like repair guys come in, it’s funny, is because the repair guys will come in and our front room doesn’t have flooring. We tore up the flooring and then building costs went up so we have not replaced the flooring. And they’ll go to put the booties on them like, yeah, that’s cute. You don’t have to do that here. And they’ll look around and they’re like, okay.

    Kathi Lipp (12:49)
    All right. Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (13:01)
    Every now and then they’ll say, are you sure? Like, yeah, no, we’re good here.

    Kathi Lipp (13:06)
    Yeah.

    Well, it’s so true. Our lives are all in transition, right? And when you have kids, the amount of day-to-day clutter goes up exponentially. Or maybe you’re in the midst of a big project. You know, I’ll never forget during the launch of Clutter Free, book, the state my house was in. It was like, we can’t take any pictures. And just recently,

    Tonya Kubo (13:12)
    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (13:35)
    Tenneil who manages our social media said, Kathi, can we get a video of you pushing in a chair? And right now we’re in Christmas crazies. I’m like, it would take me 45 minutes to get to a place to push in a chair. Right, it’s, yeah, because there’s all the fudge making supplies right there, yeah. So are you really, are you using marshmallow fluff in it?

    Tonya Kubo (13:45)
    No. To push in the chair. You’re like, “‘Cause I can’t get to the chair to push it in.”

    Yes, I’m making fudge this weekend too. Anyway, I am.

    I am using marshmallow fluff in it. I took a whole class on how to make fudge using marshmallow fluff. It was fun.

    Kathi Lipp (14:05)
    I saw that I saw that well,

    I saw the fudge class. I didn’t know that there was the marshmallow fluff. Yeah, I’m very excited I’m just using a recipe off the internet But as you know, we live next to not next to you know half I don’t know 20 minutes away from a gourmet chocolate shop, which is the only Yeah, they’re a whiner They ship they’re so good but also let’s just say their fudge has gourmet prices and I’m like

    Tonya Kubo (14:16)
    Mm-hmm.

    Little John’s, they ship. Little John’s, you should order from Little John’s.

    Yes

    Kathi Lipp (14:35)
    How much would it cost for me to do this? And Roger’s like, we can buy their other stuff. We never have to buy fudge again. And I was like, I’m an indentured fudge servant now. Got it. Okay. Okay. You know what? It’s good. Hey, speaking of fudge, number seven, I don’t buy all the gear for hobbies unless I have a pattern of doing the hobby. Because here’s what I’ve discovered, Tonya. You know what my hobby is? Buying the stuff for hobbies.

    Tonya Kubo (14:44)
    Yes, I am too.

    Mmm.

    I

    was gonna say preparing to have a hobby.

    Kathi Lipp (15:07)
    So here’s what I said, know, like one of the recipes that I am preparing right now called for a candy thermometer. And I’m like, ugh.

    Tonya Kubo (15:17)
    I need that for the fudge recipe with the marshmallow fluff. You need a candy thermometer.

    Kathi Lipp (15:20)
    Okay, so here’s what I told

    myself if I prepare three recipes right now that don’t require the the thermometer if I if I prepare these three Christmas gift II things then I am allowed to buy a Candy thermometer and I got one by the way Michaels has 30 % off coupons for a while now. So go check that out I got the I think it’s the Wilson one but

    Tonya Kubo (15:34)
    Mm-hmm.

    Ew.

    Kathi Lipp (15:49)
    I cannot tell you how many hobbies I’ve invested in and had to keep that stuff because I invest I told myself I’ve invested so heavily I need to keep all this stuff. It just it doesn’t make sense and it’s not the right thing. So I no longer I need to have a pattern of Can I start this hobby with stuff I have or can I start this hobby for less than ten dollars? And if I find that I really enjoy it

    Tonya Kubo (15:54)
    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (16:19)
    Then I will keep going but I am NOT going to go I’ll just say my history is buying at a professional level and performing at an amateur level like it’s not good

    Tonya Kubo (16:30)
    I

    know that feeling though. If I have the same paints and brushes that Bob Ross has, I will make the same pictures that Bob Ross made.

    Kathi Lipp (16:37)
    Right.

    Right, right.

    And you know, our friend Cheri Gregory, friend of the podcast, Cheri Gregory calls it buying to become and I have done that for years and years. Okay, Tonya, number eight.

    Tonya Kubo (16:49)
    Yeah.

    Okay, I kind of stole from you because you said that you scan a room before you leave. Before I go to bed, I make a round through the house specifically for dirty dishes. And here’s my, if I made a round through my house for decluttering, I would never make it to bed. But I can make a pass through my teeny tiny house just for dirty dishes in about 25 minutes. And it makes my life so much easier that

    Kathi Lipp (16:58)
    Yeah. Yeah.

    so smart.

    No, of course not.

    Hmm

    Tonya Kubo (17:24)
    Like, know, because all run into bulls, where are all the bulls? The bulls are in the kids’ room underneath the bed. Why are they underneath the bed? I actually can’t answer that question, but that is where I find them.

    Kathi Lipp (17:33)
    Okay, Tonya, we are missing a bowl right now. There are just two of us. There are just two of us. This giant glass bowl, we cannot find. Is it under Lily’s bed? That’s my question now.

    Tonya Kubo (17:36)
    Maybe it’s under my bed!

    It’s probably under Lily’s bed, and this is the worst of it, right? Is the way that Abby’s bed works, it sits lower to the ground. So Abby shoves stuff underneath Lily’s bed too. It’s not even all Lily’s fault.

    Kathi Lipp (17:52)
    Ugh.

    Poor Lily. I’m sorry Lily. I did not mean to throw you under the bus bus or the bed Okay, so you do so what 25 minutes that seems like a long time so break that down for me Really okay

    Tonya Kubo (18:13)
    It’s a lot of dishes in my kid’s room and a lot of

    dishes by Mr. Kubo’s desk. So it’s two trips. Two to three trips from the girl’s room, two trips from Brian’s desk and then

    Kathi Lipp (18:20)
    Got it. So you’re having to make multiple trips. Got it. Okay. And then

    And and you’re

    loading you’re soaking all that. Okay, that makes more sense. Okay Okay, that makes total sense. And I think doing doing a round of dishes I really feel like when everything else in your life falls apart the two things that you need to stay on top of are dishes and laundry because Mm-hmm. Yeah

    Tonya Kubo (18:49)
    Yes and I will say just really quickly that 25 minutes

    does include a good five minute temper tantrum of my gosh what is growing in this thing.

    Kathi Lipp (19:00)
    I love it. Yeah, the the the Dishes and laundry if you stay on top of those like I don’t care how crunchy your kitchen floor gets I don’t care, you know at the I would say the third thing but this doesn’t have to be done as Much is staying on top of bills. Those are the important things that if you fall behind on them It’s going to be super painful to recover from them

    Tonya Kubo (19:01)
    That’s in there too.

    No.

    Mm-hmm. yeah.

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (19:25)
    But if you can stay on top of those three things, it takes almost the same amount of energy to mop the floor when it’s been a week or five weeks. Like, I don’t want you to have to go five weeks, but if you need to in a crisis, you can. And yeah, and also stay on top of your garbage and recycling. number nine. This is my last thing of things I don’t do now that I live clutter free.

    Tonya Kubo (19:37)
    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (19:55)
    Okay, I try not to I’m still working through this but I’m much better than I used to be I don’t compare my stuff to my friends stuff so Or stuff on social media. There is always a new thing That would make my life two percent easier or two percent better Not not my entire life if something made my entire life two percent better you bet I’m going to invest in that but like

    Tonya Kubo (20:04)
    Mmm.

    Kathi Lipp (20:25)
    Let’s say, know, my, my robot vacuum, there are now robot vacuums that you can control remotely. Like I could be at my mom’s house and now I could get that doesn’t make my life better enough to upgrade my robot. Like my robots fine. We get along. We, she does what she needs to do. I’m sorry. It’s normally a he. I don’t know why I said she, cause I like for all my domestic labor to be he’s.

    Tonya Kubo (20:34)
    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (20:55)
    Because I just think that’s fair But I Just because somebody else has something that has made their life Infamates Lee better. It doesn’t mean that I need to upgrade it. I I try when I see you wearing a cute sweater I’m not going to say you know what? need that cute sweater. I’m gonna I’m one of things I’m trying to do is go into my own closet

    Tonya Kubo (21:09)
    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (21:22)
    and see

    my own cute sweaters and the things that make me happy. So I’m trying really hard to reframe what my friends have. And also that can be a form of jealousy. I can just say, you know what? I’m really happy that Tonya has that sweater. I think she looks great in it. She’s having fun with it. And it makes me happy to see her in it. And it doesn’t have to be, I don’t have to own it for it to bring me happiness. So trying to stay out of that comparison trap.

    Tonya Kubo (21:33)
    Mmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (21:52)
    And I’m sure when you go into people’s houses that have floors, that can be hard.

    Tonya Kubo (21:57)
    I do have floor envy right now, I’m not gonna lie. If you’ve got luxury vinyl plank, I’m eyeballing your floors, let me tell ya.

    Kathi Lipp (21:59)
    I you do.

    And I do have that upstairs and I wrestled over that decision for about two years And I’m so glad we pulled the trigger It’s so painful to get flooring done just because of all the moving and shifting and all that kind of stuff Okay, Tonya round out our list. Give us number ten. All right

    Tonya Kubo (22:09)
    Yeah, no.

    It is.

    My cluttery peeps will get this. I no longer gain comfort or security from having full shelves, full drawers, etc.

    Kathi Lipp (22:33)
    yeah, space scares us, doesn’t it? Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (22:37)
    Space is scary because space is scarcity and lack and my gosh what

    if I don’t have enough. But if things are full even if they’re full of stuff that you haven’t worn in 22 years you believe you have enough clothes if for some reason they stopped making all clothing.

    Kathi Lipp (22:48)
    Right?

    Mm-hmm.

    Okay, so Tonya, this is so interesting. A number of people on TikTok and other apps are doing a no buy 2025, right? And the conventional wisdom is declutter your closet so you can see what you have. And then, so you know what you have, because it is, it’s easier to see what you have when you have less stuff in your closet.

    Tonya Kubo (23:04)
    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (23:22)
    But I heard one woman, I thought this was so interesting. And I’m just gonna throw this out there for your reaction. She goes, I am not decluttering before my 2025. Because when I declutter, I feel like there is empty space. And I feel this urge to fill that space with shopping, with thrifting, with all these other things. So what she is doing is she is.

    Tonya Kubo (23:39)
    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (23:50)
    putting some of her clothes into another closet, including clothes she likes, so that she will, she remember, I’ve got more stuff. I don’t know, how does that hit you? I thought it was really interesting. Really.

    Tonya Kubo (23:53)
    Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    Mm-hmm.

    I have a friend who does that actually. she has,

    yeah, so she boxes up all of her extra stuff, even if it’s in the current season. And she has it all in like the rafters of her garage. But whenever she’s like, I wanna go shopping, she just goes and she takes a box down and she trades out pieces.

    Kathi Lipp (24:10)
    Mm-hmm.

    Yeah.

    You know, I think it’s really interesting. And so I’m not saying one way is better than the other. I’m going to try the other closet boxing because yeah, when I pull out all my winter stuff, I’m so happy. I’m like, I never need to go shopping again. And then after about two weeks, I’m like, you know, people are really into these green grandpa sweaters and like, okay, Kathi, stop, stop, stop, stop.

    Tonya Kubo (24:50)
    Yeah,

    see, and I’m the person, I want all of my clothing to be able to fit in this much of my closet. Like, I don’t wanna ever change anything out. I don’t wanna work that hard. I’m just so, like, I don’t wanna say lazy, but really it’s just like, that is just something that takes such a high level of perceived energy for me that I’m like, I’m good.

    Kathi Lipp (24:56)
    Yes, you.

    Yeah.

    Okay, see, even within our Cluttery community, we all have our own little quirks. And that’s why it’s okay for you to forge your own path, but think about the wisdom that will get you to the next space in your Clutter-free journey. I hope one of these has inspired you today. Tonya, thanks so much for hanging out with me.

    Tonya Kubo (25:18)
    We do.

    Thanks for having me.

    Kathi Lipp (25:37)
    And friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter-free life you always wanted to live.

     

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    Hey there, friend!

    If you’ve ever felt like your finances are a runaway train and you’re just hanging on for dear life, this episode is your lifeline.

    In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep into five transformative financial habits that can help listeners take control of their personal finances. The hosts discuss practical strategies for managing money, reducing unnecessary expenses, and creating a more intentional approach to spending.

    Listeners will discover:

    • How to implement a weekly budget check-in process
    • How to conduct a monthly subscription audit
    • The importance of creating a dedicated financial focus hour
    • Strategies for cutting unnecessary expenses

    This episode is about real, practical steps that actually work for us cluttery people who sometimes struggle to keep things together. Ready to take back control? Let’s go!

    Listen to these No/Low Buy July episodes to encourage you.

    Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

    Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

    Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

    Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

    Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

    Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

    Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

    Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

    Links Mentioned:

    Profit First by Mike Michalowicz

    Mike Michalowicz website

    Clutter Free Resources:

    How did you first realize you needed to change your approach to finances?

    Share in the comments!

    Let’s stay connected

    To share your thoughts:

    • Leave a note in the comment section below.
    • Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

    Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

    Meet Our Guest 

     

    Tonya Kubo

    Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

     

    Tonya Kubo Picture
    Transcript

    Kathi Lipp (00:18.316)

    Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. Tonya, we’re gonna talk about money.

    This is an area that I still struggle but feel like I’m doing better every day. What are your feelings towards money?

    Tonya Kubo (00:45.396)

    Well, I would like to have more of it always. like, you know, money is just numbers. It doesn’t really bother me to talk about money. I just would like more of it all the time. Right. Because there’s always something to buy, Kathi. I mean, hello, we are in clutter free Academy here.

    Kathi Lipp (00:48.468)

    Yes, of course.

    Kathi Lipp (00:55.48)

    Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    Yes. Right. Yes, yes. And I wonder, do you feel like cluttery people? You know, I always feel like I can’t remember what movie, you know, when will it be enough? Just a little bit more. I’m trying to remember. I can’t remember what movie it is, but, you know, when will it be enough? Just a little bit more. And I feel like I can feel that way about the stuff in my house.

    Tonya Kubo (01:14.896)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (01:26.82)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (01:27.064)

    course, I also want it to be less stuff in my house. I just want the right stuff, right? But also finances. you know, this year we’re kicking off, we’re talking about habits that we can develop in our lives in order to really approach the new year empowered. And I feel like especially with financial habits, that empowering is really, really important because we can feel like victims

    Tonya Kubo (01:31.919)

    Right.

    Kathi Lipp (01:55.624)

    Our not enough or we can feel like no, I’m super clever I can figure this out we can make this work and Roger and I have a ginormous bill to pay off like like ginormous like life-altering amount of money and You know, we knew what we were doing when we did that it was to make improvements to the home and things like that and worse we don’t regret doing it but

    It does feel overwhelming and we’ve had to have a lot of financial discussions about how are we going to take those numbers and aim point, point those dollar bills in a powerful way. And so I wanted to talk about five things that I feel like have been very, very helpful for us and habits that we are getting into in order to gain some of that power back.

    Tonya Kubo (02:27.706)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (02:36.772)

    Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (02:50.544)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (02:50.924)

    And the first thing I’m going to talk about is something that you and I both love. We are passionate about it. It’s the book Profit First. this, yes. Okay. Let me just start off by saying this is a business financial book. So if you’re not a business financial person, you might be like, but why? But Tonya, can you talk a little bit about the principles around Profit First and how they can apply to a home?

    Tonya Kubo (02:54.842)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (02:58.659)

    Yes!

    Tonya Kubo (03:18.788)

    Well, so for me, I mean, the biggest principle of Profit First that I think you can apply to a home is rather than taking what’s left for your family, take what you need for your family first and then alter the what’s left part. So for example, I think a lot of us are reactionary with our finances, right? Like, the power bill is twice what it was last month.

    Kathi Lipp (03:28.501)

    Right?

    Kathi Lipp (03:34.04)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (03:47.344)

    Okay, well, I guess I’m paying twice what it was. And then at the end, right, we say, I’ve got an extra $50 left over. I guess $50 goes in savings. Whereas, you know, with profit first, when you talk about, so you need to make sure that the very first cut you take is for yourself and then make sure everything else, all your expenses align. The first cut goes to savings because you’re never going to get off the financial hamster wheel.

    Kathi Lipp (03:47.629)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (03:56.024)

    Hmm

    Kathi Lipp (04:04.642)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (04:11.266)

    Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (04:14.672)

    if you don’t start to build that up. And I know, you there was a time in our life where all we could do was say five to $10 a month and that was a huge win. But, you know, at the end of a year, having 120 to $150 set aside was the difference between having to put something on a credit card and being able to pay cash for it.

    Kathi Lipp (04:14.7)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (04:22.968)

    bright.

    Kathi Lipp (04:38.028)

    Yeah, there were I when we first started this there were months where we put things into savings and later that month have to take it right out and It felt like okay. This is ridiculous. But you know what it made such a difference and Here’s the other thing. It’s so funny. We just did a podcast about hiding food from our family So that they didn’t plow through it. Can we take that same principle and talk about money with?

    Tonya Kubo (04:47.726)

    Right back out, yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (04:55.151)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (05:03.408)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (05:07.414)

    Miss Kathi Lipp because if I see that it’s available I feel like we that’s just my brain right and I don’t want to be the wee person but one of the things that we did as a family for our business was set up different accounts so that we never saw the money that the money wasn’t there because the money had been Allotted for something different and that’s what we had to do it

    Tonya Kubo (05:08.994)

    Tonya Kubo (05:15.408)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (05:24.399)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (05:34.916)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (05:37.142)

    So you guys the book profit first is on sale right now for like 11 bucks I don’t know what it will be when we you know broadcast this but It’s not a huge investment. It’s very easy and some people are like, well, isn’t this kind of like the envelope method? It is like the envelope method But it’s you we we’ve set up a number of different accounts and we could do that for free in our with our bank

    Tonya Kubo (05:46.405)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (06:04.96)

    And if we couldn’t, we might’ve switched banks. We’ve actually got some accounts that are at a totally different credit union, because that’s what makes sense for us. But you can absolutely transfer this. And guys, you’re recommending a finance book, Kathi. If finances are a struggle, I highly recommend this, because everybody I have recommended it to, they swear by it. They swear by it. It makes a lot of difference.

    Tonya Kubo (06:13.264)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (06:27.738)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (06:32.95)

    So yes, the savings first transfer. What are the other categories that you need to pay? Everybody has that weird category that other people don’t have, but you know, you can start to guess what your categories are gonna be. And Tonya, Roger and I, when we borrowed some money against our own house, I will say we were not as careful with that money as we needed to be.

    Tonya Kubo (06:50.032)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (07:02.57)

    Electric bill was insane insane and we were always too busy to figure out what was going on and We knew you know after doing that for too long We sat down and we had to figure out what is going on here and we did some investigation and not only Not only did we figure out turning the heater on for moose is costing us. I’m not even joking

    Tonya Kubo (07:05.818)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (07:11.472)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (07:20.346)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (07:31.266)

    hundreds of dollars a month. Like you guys, it was crazy. But also we found out that we qualified for a program through PG &E, our electric company, that drastically reduced our bill. And then we also qualified for another program where we’re going to get free Tesla backup batteries for our house because Roger’s on a CPAP.

    Tonya Kubo (07:32.56)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (07:41.465)

    Mmm.

    Tonya Kubo (07:55.13)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (07:57.634)

    Like until you start investigating these things, you don’t know. And when you’re not paying attention to your budget, it’s very easy to just keep paying, paying, paying and never get ahead. And guys, we want you to get ahead. We want this to be something that we want you to win. And so we want you to feel the squeeze. And when you start to say, okay, if I reduce this bill, I have a little bit more money to play with over here and making savings a priority.

    Tonya Kubo (08:00.698)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (08:06.672)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (08:16.016)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (08:27.552)

    Okay, number two, weekly budget check-in. Just are you somehow checking your budget to just see what is going on? Roger and I call this Monday Monies and Munchies, where we look forward to it because we’re gonna eat something amazing, but we also, know, money is a hard subject and…

    Tonya Kubo (08:44.985)

    Hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (08:51.055)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (08:56.386)

    You know, Roger and I don’t fight, but neither of us like dealing with the money. It’s not fun. So how do you check in on your budget, Tonya?

    Tonya Kubo (09:01.274)

    Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (09:05.74)

    Yeah, so I’m fully responsible for the finances in our house. So while I do try to sit down with Brian, because I think it’s important that he knows what we’re spending, how much we spend and what we spend it on, he has zero desire or interest in any of it. So I have to be really short, really to the point. I have a good friend though. She and her husband do a Costco date on Fridays.

    Kathi Lipp (09:09.729)

    Okay.

    Kathi Lipp (09:16.33)

    Mm-hmm. Right.

    Kathi Lipp (09:24.504)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (09:32.176)

    They just, don’t go to Costco to shop. They just go to the Costco food court. They each get hot dogs or a slice of pizza. And that’s when they do their finances. And I think that is brilliant at Costco.

    Kathi Lipp (09:36.79)

    Okay.

    Okay. Okay.

    Kathi Lipp (09:44.472)

    At Costco. That’s wild. They bring their laptops? Or phones? Okay. Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (09:50.616)

    No, she does everything in a notebook. And so she’s in charge of the family finances. They’re a single income household. Her job is being a good steward of his paycheck. Like that’s how they do it. And so she sits down and the way she looks at it is just like if she was a CFO and she’s meeting with the CEO, like this is what I’m doing with the money and this is what I think we should do. And these are some questions I have and that’s what they do. And it works really well for them. And she says, she’s like, don’t like, he doesn’t.

    Kathi Lipp (10:01.282)

    Got it, okay.

    Kathi Lipp (10:08.782)

    Okay.

    Tonya Kubo (10:20.496)

    really care what I do with his paycheck, as long as there are certain things that are important to him that he gets. She’s like, I could stockpile it all the way for Christmas and he’s not going to care. But I think it’s important to check in. Yeah. So I think it’s fascinating.

    Kathi Lipp (10:25.421)

    Right?

    Kathi Lipp (10:31.118)

    But he just wants, yeah. You know, as long as Roger has his favorite brand of salsa, we’re pretty much good to go, you know? But as soon as it dips below his favorite form of salsa, we’re gonna have a deep discussion, yeah. Okay.

    Tonya Kubo (10:39.748)

    Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (10:50.328)

    Right, right. If you’ve got to go to off-brand salsa, you might have to dig deeper.

    Kathi Lipp (10:54.158)

    Times are desperate, right? Okay, guys, we’re gonna take a quick break and we’re gonna come back and we’re gonna talk about something that both Tonya and I are super passionate about when it comes to finances. So you’re not gonna wanna miss this. We’ll be right back.

    Okay guys, we are back. We’ve talked about two financial habits. Read Profit First or listen to it on audio. I listen to it on audio about, I would say every 18 months and it gets me excited about it again. Number two, weekly budget check-in. Make sure that you know where that money is going. Number three, we both love this. You know it. It’s Low Buy July.

    Tonya Kubo (11:23.152)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (11:37.858)

    Tonya, talk a little bit about your passion behind Low by July.

    Tonya Kubo (11:42.778)

    Well, what I love about, I mean, for us, it started off like out of necessity, first of all, right? So I was going to, yeah. And I think what we can do is we can link a couple of episodes that are about Low Buy July in the show notes. But ultimately, the idea is to reduce your discretionary spending as much as possible. So we’re not talking about living in dark.

    Kathi Lipp (11:48.288)

    Right. Explain what it is. Explain what it… Okay. Okay, good. I want to make sure.

    Kathi Lipp (11:57.634)

    Yes. Right.

    Tonya Kubo (12:10.724)

    like and not turning on your lights because you’re not allowed to pay the power bill this month. We’re just talking about, can you minimize the impulse purchases? Can you spend an extra week before you go back to the grocery store? Can you fill up your tank one less time this month? you know, because you’re driving fewer places, that’s really what low by July is about. And what I, we initially started it out of necessity, like I said, because Brian didn’t used to get a paycheck in August.

    Kathi Lipp (12:11.437)

    Great.

    Kathi Lipp (12:40.162)

    Right.

    Tonya Kubo (12:40.3)

    And while I am an almost equal contributor to the household these days, there was a time where I was like, he was bringing in about three-fourths what I brought in, but we still needed his three-fourths a lot. So having that one check now come in was really tough. And so I needed to make July’s money stretch as long as possible. And that was how we did it. Now I like it cause it’s a reset because after Christmas,

    Kathi Lipp (12:54.09)

    Right? 100%. Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (13:02.017)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (13:07.021)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (13:07.972)

    For us at least, Christmas feels like an excess. We are doing a ton of traveling. We’re very busy, so there’s a lot of eating out. And that carries over into January. We’ve got birthdays in January and then all the things. And then it’s usually around May where I’m like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like there’s less going into savings than there used to be. Like all this stuff is happening. And so then in July, it’s an opportunity to reset. It’s an opportunity for us to go, okay, what do we really wanna be doing with our money?

    Kathi Lipp (13:25.804)

    Yes!

    Kathi Lipp (13:30.06)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (13:37.804)

    It’s an opportunity to be looking at where the money’s going. You know, are we spending more here than we used to? If that’s the case, where can we take that from? And what should be our financial priorities moving forward? I feel like in our household, it is hard to proactively talk about financial priorities in a month where it feels like we’re doing a lot of spending. So Low Buy July for us is a great time for that. How about you?

    Kathi Lipp (14:00.268)

    Right.

    And it may you know what I love is You know our budget has historically had enough a little bit of room that we don’t have to It we can’t we do but we don’t have to look at the sales flyers. We don’t have to plan our meals around what’s on sale and July resets that

    Tonya Kubo (14:22.01)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (14:27.888)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (14:31.384)

    for me, I get out of good habits. And you know, so in July, I take Amazon off my phone. take, you know, I’m trying to eat down what we have in our pantry, which is a really good time for us because we want to make sure that the things we stocked up on last year are not hanging around too long.

    Tonya Kubo (14:39.696)

    Mm.

    Tonya Kubo (14:57.741)

    Right.

    Kathi Lipp (14:58.81)

    So, you know, that’s what we want to be able to do. And I notice that we start to save a lot more money in the fall because I’m out of that impulse habit. And again, with cluttery people, impulsivity is something that we know, it’s our best asset. It also can be our biggest struggle. And so, you know, Roger loves when I say

    Tonya Kubo (15:20.91)

    Right?

    Kathi Lipp (15:24.344)

    Hey, let’s drive to town and get a Starbucks and I probably do that twice a year. So it’s fun to be impulsive, but also, you know, we need to tame that because that’s not a sustainable way of living. And at some point we’re going to retire. At some point, we’re not going to have the income that we do. And I want to be able to enjoy my life without regrets. Okay. Number four, monthly subscription audit. Okay, Tonya.

    Tonya Kubo (15:28.89)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (15:48.026)

    Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (15:53.7)

    Mm-hmm. Okay.

    Kathi Lipp (15:53.742)

    I’m very proud of myself. have gone, well, okay, I should be ashamed of how many monthly subscriptions I have let sneak into our house, our household budget, but I’m not gonna go with the shame. I’m gonna go with the victory that I, over the past two months, I’ve been auditing, like as things come up and I’m like, okay, we’re not watching Brit Box. Okay, we don’t need.

    Tonya Kubo (16:04.688)

    Mmm.

    Tonya Kubo (16:09.487)

    Right.

    Tonya Kubo (16:16.89)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (16:23.464)

    Apple we don’t need an Apple TV subscription year-round You know I ours so I have been canceling monthly subscriptions or yearly subscriptions But every month I’m doing an audit and seeing you know now a lot of companies are telling you hey this subscription is renewing in a week and So I’m being very proactive to go and cancel that I’m searching through

    Tonya Kubo (16:28.048)

    you

    Tonya Kubo (16:46.608)

    Mmm.

    Kathi Lipp (16:52.406)

    are Wells Fargo statements and saying, is there anything else? I’m looking in places like Google Play or PayPal and saying, what’s coming out that I don’t really need for it to come out anymore. And you know, I love when there are some subscriptions I have and I love and I use, and I’m great with that.

    But it’s the one that I’ve kind of fallen out of the habits on that is, it’s been great. And I just did a total. So I asked AI, here are all the subscriptions I have canceled. Tell me what my annual savings are. And for the subscriptions that I’ve canceled over the past several months, we are saving annually $670.

    Tonya Kubo (17:30.661)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (17:47.982)

    Nice.

    Kathi Lipp (17:49.058)

    That’s not a small, it’s not an insignificant amount of money. It’s a huge amount of money. And so, like I have a Costco membership, I have a Sam’s membership. I will always pay for the, well, don’t know if I’ll always, but for now, I have no problem paying for those, because I use them enough, it makes sense. But these little things that can creep in, they make a difference when they’re all adding up. Tonya, how do you,

    Tonya Kubo (18:15.822)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (18:17.579)

    Are you good about this stuff? Do you struggle? Do your kids have subscriptions?

    Tonya Kubo (18:21.136)

    Well, think, yeah, so I think for us, you know, as a household, like Brian is responsible for entertainment, right? So they’re like, oftentimes I’m just like, okay, so help me understand why we have Peacock and Apple and Hulu and blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, and he’ll say, well, know, Abby likes this show. It’s only on that channel. It’s only on that service, this service, that service.

    Kathi Lipp (18:33.486)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (18:42.456)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (18:48.868)

    But what I do find is the channels included with certain services change a lot. And so it’s worth always looking at that to say, hey, because I remember I cannot tell you what it is because it’s not a show I watch, but there was some show that we had a service and it was because that was the only way you could watch the show. But then that became available with like our cable subscription. And so we ended up knocking off like 30 bucks a month.

    Kathi Lipp (18:55.63)

    Hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (19:13.911)

    Right.

    Tonya Kubo (19:17.98)

    one year just by evaluating what services got access to which shows. And even if we decide, you know, we want to watch a show or pay to watch like a single show, it’s cheaper over the course of the year than it is to subscribe to these services. And I am, so I have to look quarterly because things sneak in. I’m like, I’m a big fan of,

    Kathi Lipp (19:35.565)

    Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (19:42.064)

    client or a friend launches some low cost thing and it’s nine dollars a month. And that’s all I’m like, yeah, I’ll support you. But, you know, nine dollars a month times five suddenly is a forty five dollar a month thing. So I have to do that. And then this year, I’ve really been looking at my business expenses and seeing where I can cut there, because the less business expenses I have, the more profit I can take that I then put into my family’s account.

    Kathi Lipp (19:52.961)

    It’s so true.

    Kathi Lipp (20:10.734)

    100 % and we have to keep on top of those things. So do that audit. Then number five, a financial focus hour. So this is something that Roger and I are doing. Now we’ve talked about body doubling that I am much more focused when I know Roger is focusing on something adjacent to what I’m focusing on. So one thing that we’re doing now,

    Tonya Kubo (20:15.62)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (20:37.103)

    Right.

    Kathi Lipp (20:40.366)

    is Roger is spending that hour looking at more of our high-level finances. Like, do we need to move something around? It makes it sound very, do we need to move money around? You know, we’re not that bougie, but would it make sense? He’s, you know, one of the things he’s doing this week is checking with a financial advisor through work to see what we should be doing. Well, I’m doing more of the low-level stuff, like,

    What’s a loss leader at Safeway this week? Yeah, but they’re both contributing to our financial future in our home. And so is there something that you could be doing? Now you say you are primarily responsible for finances in your house. How often do you check in on your finances?

    Tonya Kubo (21:11.792)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (21:30.256)

    So I check in twice a month. So I do a budget check weekly and then I’m checking in on other deeper dives about twice a month. Because there’s things that Brian subscribes to that I don’t know about and I have to ask questions and it’s just easier to ask questions when there’s two versus when there’s five.

    Kathi Lipp (21:40.75)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (21:44.692)

    Right. Yeah. Yes. Right. Absolutely. And now are when you are checking in on those things, is it because, you know, Brian gets paid twice a month or is it is there a reason behind it or it just works for you?

    Tonya Kubo (22:03.564)

    Yeah, so for us, so Brian only gets paid once a month. And I have to tell you, I miss my university days where we both got paid the same day. And then it was just a matter of making the money last. So part of why I check in is because it helps me understand how much I need to pay myself because I pay myself like every other week. That way that that’s like groceries and stuff like that. So it helps me go, OK, so, you know, where am I at? Because I do control

    Kathi Lipp (22:11.905)

    yeah.

    Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (22:21.955)

    Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (22:32.844)

    my own income so that I can save money so that I can offset lean times. But there’s sometimes, like for instance, we had a phone bill that was double what we usually spend. Actually, no, was three times what we usually spend. know, and Brian can’t just suddenly like make that up. That’s just not the nature of his line of work. So it was nice for me to be able to say, okay, well, I have that in my backup that I can then pull over.

    Kathi Lipp (22:34.904)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (22:39.137)

    Right.

    Kathi Lipp (22:46.85)

    Wow.

    Kathi Lipp (22:52.054)

    Right? Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (23:00.068)

    But if I wasn’t checking, if I was only checking once a month, that would have, I would not have recognized that.

    Kathi Lipp (23:00.206)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (23:06.668)

    Yeah. Okay, guys, we’re gonna go over these financial habits again. Don’t try to implement everything at once, but think about what could you easily put into your lifestyle? Put it on your calendar so that it comes up and helps you. I want your financial freedom to be at the forefront of your mind because this is something we all need to be paying attention to. And I’ll tell you,

    us cluttery people have a hard time with it. And I don’t want this to be a source of contention in your relationships or for you. I want you to take care of your future self. So number one, check out the book Profit First. We don’t earn commission from you doing this. We just want you to be financially healthy. Two, weekly budget check. This is to just check in, you know, do you…

    Check into your accounts. Make sure you know where your money is going. Number three, join us for Low Buy July. You can do this over at Clutterfree Academy, Kathi Lipp’s Clutterfree Academy on Facebook. We do it every year. We would love to have you over there. Four, monthly subscription audit. See what you’re actually paying for over and over on repeat. They make it very easy for you to not see that being on repeat. And we want you to make the…

    Tonya Kubo (24:25.232)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (24:27.946)

    Invisible visible and it will help you take care of your finances and then finally Financial focus hour is is there somebody else you’re sharing finances with where you can each take a piece of it and do a deeper dive Because it’s gonna help you save money Tonya. This has been great and it’s been very unscary, which I really like Yay And friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I’m Kathi lip now

    Tonya Kubo (24:48.482)

    Yay!

    Kathi Lipp (24:57.708)

    Go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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    Meet Our Guest 

     

    Tonya Kubo

    Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

     

    Tonya Kubo Picture
    Transcript
    Kathi Lipp (00:19.512)

    Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am back. We are with our five daily habits for 2025 and it’s with Tonya Kubo. Hey Tonya.

    Tonya Kubo (00:37.018)

    Hey there, Kathi.

    Kathi Lipp (00:38.638)

    I know you have a very, very, very businessy podcast. How does it feel to do a very business podcast? And then we’re talking about how to clean toilets and how to organize your sock drawer. Like, do you feel like you get whiplash between your podcasts?

    Tonya Kubo (00:56.859)

    especially since the recording days are the same usually. But yeah, it’s kind of fun. It’s kind of fun to have such a difference.

    Kathi Lipp (01:00.552)

    no, I didn’t know that.

    You get to use very, yeah, you get to use very different parts of your brain. Yeah. OK, well, we are back and we are talking about a subject that we don’t talk about very often, and that is cleaning. some people, people always tell me I have a cleaning podcast and I’m like, no, I do not have a cleaning podcast. That’s that’s not who I am. But I have a decluttering podcast and you have to get, you know.

    Tonya Kubo (01:10.714)

    That is true.

    Tonya Kubo (01:27.683)

    Ew.

    Tonya Kubo (01:32.057)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (01:34.164)

    It’s it’s great to declutter before you clean. So you actually have something to clean but I will be honest with you One i’m much better about cleaning than I used to be and two I do have somebody who comes twice a month that does like all the floors all the the you know, the big scrubs, you know, she’s the one who is Down on her hands and knees for the bathtub like that. That just is not my favorite thing. And so i’ve

    Tonya Kubo (02:02.97)

    Right.

    Kathi Lipp (02:04.072)

    I’ve decided to exchange a certain amount of money to not have to do that. And by the way, her name is Kelly and she is, she has become a wonderful friend and she loves to clean. Like she says, you know, every once in a while I just can’t sleep. So I get up and clean. I’m like, that has never ever happened to me. No, no. But here’s, here’s what I know. Two things. One.

    Tonya Kubo (02:22.566)

    Happened to me in my entire life, Kathi Lipp. Never.

    Kathi Lipp (02:32.942)

    Kelly is not here every day, which makes me very sad. I wish she was here every day. My life would be so much better if Kelly was here every day, but that is not our lives. Also, there are times when Kelly can’t come. We had a five month period this year where it was me and Roger, because she had some shoulder surgery, so it was up to us.

    Tonya Kubo (02:37.904)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (03:00.972)

    For most of my life, it’s been up to me. And so I’ve had to learn some things and I know that one of the things that really gets me, don’t, tell me if you play these mental games. First of all, one of my mental games when it comes to cleaning is, well, it’s not really dirty. I’m gonna wait till it’s really dirty, cause I’ll feel so much satisfaction when it’s clean. Has that, that, right? my goodness. my goodness. Then I also think,

    Tonya Kubo (03:22.981)

    Instant gratification!

    Kathi Lipp (03:31.246)

    it’s so dirty. It’s going to take so long. I don’t have enough time. And so I can’t do it. I swing wildly between those two things and have for years and am just now coming to terms with how to deal with it. And I feel like I had a massive breakthrough today that I I’m going to share with us on number two, but no, yes, number two. Yes. But let me do number one first.

    Tonya Kubo (03:35.76)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (03:44.326)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (03:57.45)

    I feel like this is the secret tip that we hear everybody talk about, but it really has made the biggest difference in my life. And that is making my bed. I know, okay, what’s your face, Tonya?

    Tonya Kubo (04:12.518)

    no, I’m sorry. Yes, making your bed is not something we do here in the Kubo household. It is not, yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (04:19.712)

    Okay, that’s okay. Maybe it has a different psychological effect on different people. Here’s how I think about making my bed. One, I have just made at least a quarter of my room, like decluttered and clean in two minutes. So that makes me super happy. Two, Roger loves getting into a made bed. I like it. He loves it. And he is, I will say,

    Tonya Kubo (04:26.533)

    Ha ha ha.

    Tonya Kubo (04:44.282)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (04:49.646)

    Probably 50 % of the time the bedmaker in our house and was not that way when we got married so and then Three it’s a surface that I can fold clothes on It is a surface that I can do projects on for some reason that helps me but that two-minute win Clicks off my day. Is there something like that? That is like, okay if I do this I feel better about the rest of my house

    Tonya Kubo (04:52.909)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (05:02.714)

    Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (05:18.632)

    yeah, for me it’s cleaning off the kitchen table. Like, Brian will tell you hands down, the state of the kitchen table has a direct correlation to my mental health.

    Kathi Lipp (05:21.29)

    Okay, yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (05:29.926)

    Interesting. Okay. Okay. It is the opposite for me. Like it has no correlation to my mental health. So that is fascinating. That is fascinating. So you know, whatever that is for you, that cleaning habit that feels like it kicks off all the other things. Make that happen. Okay, number two, this is where I feel like I had my big aha moment today.

    Tonya Kubo (05:37.845)

    Yeah, no, for me it’s the kitchen table.

    Tonya Kubo (05:54.85)

    Okay, we want to hear it, Kathi. We want to hear it.

    Kathi Lipp (05:58.146)

    patch at a time and Let me explain what that means because it means nothing to you right now So you’ve been in my upstairs bathroom. We did a beautiful remodel on that bathroom It makes me so happy every time I go in there the one thing that maybe if I could change on that remodel Would be the floor. I don’t know if you remember the floor it is it’s like

    Tonya Kubo (06:02.47)

    Hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (06:20.571)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (06:24.76)

    I just know it heats up and I love that about it.

    Kathi Lipp (06:27.402)

    Okay, yes, I’m sorry. I’m saying the wrong thing. That floor I love. It’s the shower floor that Yeah, so it is like a pebbly thing and it gets these spots on them and so I bought a tool that is basically a scrubber. It’s a it’s a scrubber that swirls around and it’s electric

    Tonya Kubo (06:34.642)

    okay.

    Kathi Lipp (06:57.046)

    So it’s almost like a mop, but it’s a scrubber. But I’m always telling myself I don’t have time to do the entire thing, right? So it just goes on with the spots and it just never looks exactly right. So this morning I’m like, I’m just gonna do six square inches. I’m just gonna do six square inches. And then tomorrow I can do another six square inches because I never seem to have a morning where it’s like,

    Tonya Kubo (06:59.546)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (07:19.846)

    you

    Kathi Lipp (07:26.54)

    wow, this is a morning where I have lots of time to clean. Like that morning has not materialized in my life. So I did the six square inches and I’m like, that was easier than I remember. So I did another six square inches and I did another and it took me about four whole minutes to clean the shower floor. But I was okay with just doing the six square inches today and then tomorrow doing another six square inches.

    Tonya Kubo (07:40.693)

    Mmm.

    Tonya Kubo (07:55.183)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (07:55.82)

    And we talked about this with decluttering on our last podcast that all or nothing feeling that all like I have to do the whole kitchen counter. Well, no, you don’t actually have to do the whole kitchen counter. You know, do you do you feel like you don’t clean because you feel like you have to do the kitchen sink, the kitchen counter, the stovetop? It all has to be done at once. And I have come more to a rotation theory like

    Tonya Kubo (08:01.84)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (08:08.325)

    No.

    Tonya Kubo (08:18.896)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (08:26.146)

    I can clean the sink after we do dishes at night and then that’ll be great. I can also do the counters after we do dishes, but maybe I’ll do the stovetop in the morning because I’ll have a little bit more time to do that. I think it’s okay. Not everything has to be clean all at the same time. You know, there are two days a year where that has to happen Christmas and Thanksgiving because you have people coming over. Everything else is optional.

    Tonya Kubo (08:39.354)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (08:55.883)

    Is there anything that you do by patches? know you do your kitchen counter decluttering by patches anything else like in the cleaning realm?

    Tonya Kubo (09:01.584)

    Mm-hmm.

    Well, like my bathroom is always done in patches. Like I focus on one aspect of the bathroom every day. So, so like the bathroom sink only gets like cleaned once a week. You know, that’s like one example, like do I clear it off? Do I take a baby wipe and wipe it down sometimes? Sure. But there’s like one day a week where it’s like, okay, like yesterday was the day, which is why it’s fresh in my mind. I clean that.

    Kathi Lipp (09:07.512)

    Mmm.

    Kathi Lipp (09:11.182)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (09:17.97)

    Mmm, okay, yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (09:26.562)

    Yeah. Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (09:32.3)

    Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (09:33.734)

    the bathtub about once a week, once every other week, because we don’t take a lot of baths. So over there, tends to be the dust. But it’s just every day I go, what needs to be done here?

    Kathi Lipp (09:38.179)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (09:41.9)

    Yes, absolutely.

    Kathi Lipp (09:46.838)

    Right and you know, I hear these people online who talk about I just have my routine every day and I do the exact same thing So that my kitchen is always in perfect order that will never be me. It will never ever be me That is not the life I live And so i’m okay with that

    Tonya Kubo (09:53.318)

    Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (10:03.62)

    Yeah, I think it just, it just depends. Like it depends on a lot, right? Like I know people who genuinely cannot fall asleep at night if they know there’s a dirty dish in their sink. There are a lot of things, Kathi, that keep me up at night. Dirty dishes in my sink is just not one of them.

    Kathi Lipp (10:13.591)

    Great.

    Kathi Lipp (10:17.878)

    Yes. Yes.

    Kathi Lipp (10:24.138)

    It’s not one of them. It is not one of them. so, and it’s okay if you’re that person like Kelly who cleans my house, that’s her. And she has skills that I do not have. I wish that I had been born with some of those skills. I just don’t have them. But you know, the reason you want to be clean, one is because yeah, we want it to look nice. We want it to feel nice. But two, we’re trying to keep people alive, you know? So like things that keep people alive.

    Tonya Kubo (10:29.53)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (10:48.944)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (10:52.014)

    You know, disinfecting the counters, disinfecting the sink. Like those things are important to me, but having a spotless refrigerator every day of the year is not as important to me. I do it on a, you know, at least once a month I’m going in there kind of cleaning things out. If there’s a spill, I’m cleaning it up. But I’m just trying to be realistic with the life I actually live and keeping on top of it. Okay. Number three.

    Tonya Kubo (10:58.0)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (11:09.733)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (11:19.754)

    A nightly kitchen reset. you know, we’ve talked about this before. Roger does the dishes. I, I clean the kitchen. And so I am just doing a spritz and swipe, you know, spritz, spritz, swipe it down spritz. It’s not like a deep cleaning on TikTok all the time. There are these videos of people going in with steam cleaners. like, what are you doing? Are you butchering in your kitchen? Like, why do you need that deep of a clean?

    Tonya Kubo (11:32.07)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (11:36.229)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (11:50.094)

    The other thing that I like to do is I am going back to number two patch at a time if there’s something on the floor I’m getting out the Swiffer mop and I’m just doing that spot and You know, it’s I’m not doing a full kitchen mop all the time. I we just don’t live that kind of life We did at one point, especially when we had two small kids in the golden retriever There was a lot of mopping going on. But now it’s more getting that

    Tonya Kubo (11:55.108)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (12:02.223)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (12:08.048)

    Mm-hmm.

    Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (12:14.703)

    Right.

    Kathi Lipp (12:19.086)

    But the nightly kitchen reset is just putting things away It’s wiping things down and then maybe one extra thing like yesterday I noticed that the inside of the microwave was not great So it was wiping that down or maybe the front of the refrigerator. I don’t know I don’t know how it happens, but it’s usually after I’ve been cooking for a while I go to Open up the refrigerator. I’m like, why does that handle?

    Tonya Kubo (12:33.712)

    Hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (12:48.61)

    Feel crumbly like that’s not a good feeling so i’m just gonna do that But i’m not gonna do usually all of that at the same time So there is a bit of a reset, but it’s not a full reset every night So for you, it’s the kitchen table Do you have in your perfect world? Is the kitchen table completely cleared off or is there something on it? It’s it’s a flat surface that makes you

    Tonya Kubo (12:50.406)

    Hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (13:00.846)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (13:05.007)

    Yes.

    Tonya Kubo (13:10.02)

    Yes.

    Tonya Kubo (13:13.59)

    It is naked! I want a naked kitchen table.

    Kathi Lipp (13:18.182)

    I love it so much. Okay, we’re gonna take a quick break. We’re gonna come back with our last two things like, is one of these a habit that you could pull out for 2025? Because even if you can incorporate one of these things into your routine, it’s gonna make your life so much better. Okay, we’ll be right back.

    Okay, we are back with our five habits for 2025. Okay, number four, a bathroom wipe down. So you said that you don’t like wipe down everything every night. I do tend to do that because we are dirty, filthy pigs, Tonya. I don’t know what it is, but the toothpaste, the grimy, I don’t know what it is. We’re just gross.

    Tonya Kubo (13:51.974)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (14:03.47)

    Yeah, so here’s my problem, right, with wiping things down is I’m the first person who goes to bed. I go to bed a good two hours before anybody else in my house. So I used to have a routine where I would wipe everything down. You know, I’d wipe down the kitchen, wipe down, because I don’t wash the dishes either. Let’s be very honest about this. Like that’s a Brian thing. But you know, I’d go in, wipe down the kitchen, wipe down the bathroom. But what would happen is I will wake up and there will be toothpaste

    Kathi Lipp (14:13.527)

    Wow.

    Kathi Lipp (14:17.74)

    Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (14:32.376)

    like hanging off the edges of the sink because three people brushed their teeth after I went to bed and I got very grumpy waking up in the morning to a sink that did not look like it did when I went to bed that night.

    Kathi Lipp (14:34.888)

    Hahaha!

    Kathi Lipp (14:41.342)

    Right, right.

    Kathi Lipp (14:50.208)

    Right, right, right, right. We also have another issue that you have experienced. If I don’t wipe down that sink on a regular basis, it turns blue. And that’s not the color I want for my sink. We have copper and yeah, we’ve got something, I don’t know. It’s.

    Tonya Kubo (15:07.876)

    I was like, I would describe it as a teal, but let’s not have the blush versus bashful argument on the show. But it is, yeah, it’s kind of a pretty blue-green, but not really what you’re looking for with the house.

    Kathi Lipp (15:11.085)

    Yes.

    Kathi Lipp (15:14.9)

    Right, yeah, it’s not the color.

    It’s beautiful. Not what I’m looking for. Yes, absolutely. So I do tend to wipe those things down and yeah, I do like to wake up to a clean sink too. Now it’s harder for you because you have four people in your bathroom. I just have Roger and Roger’s neater than me. Let’s just be honest.

    Tonya Kubo (15:25.861)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (15:34.882)

    Yes, four people, one bathroom.

    Tonya Kubo (15:39.662)

    And I will say one thing I do twice a day, right? Before I go to bed and then when I wake up in the morning is I pick up all the things that have been left on the floor in the bathroom and I put those in the dirty laundry. Cause most of it it’s like towels. Why can nobody put their pants and their underpants in the hamper? I don’t know, but I’m picking up everybody’s pants, putting them where they go.

    Kathi Lipp (15:49.056)

    Mm-hmm. Mm, yeah, smart.

    Kathi Lipp (16:07.027)

    bless their hearts, we love them. We love them so much.

    Tonya Kubo (16:08.677)

    We do love them. But, you know, I don’t want to trip over stuff.

    Kathi Lipp (16:14.063)

    Yep, I totally get it. Okay. Number five Is a room by room rotation So I don’t do this perfectly but I do it pretty much every day where i’m just going to go spend Five to 15 minutes cleaning something up now one thing I do have and some people might consider this a luxury. I consider it a necessity I have a set of cleaning supplies on each floor so

    Tonya Kubo (16:22.63)

    Mmm.

    Tonya Kubo (16:41.762)

    Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (16:43.686)

    In upstairs, have all the toilet cleaner. Well, let’s be honest, in each bathroom, I have toilet bowl cleaner. I have the wipe down stuff. I have the shower cleaner. I also have on each floor of the house, my handy vac and a vacuum. And that makes a huge difference because if I had to take a vacuum up and down the stairs, nothing would ever happen. It would never happen. It just would not happen.

    Tonya Kubo (16:51.354)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (17:07.568)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (17:11.872)

    And so I have those supplies on each floor and I have supplies like we have a set of supplies in our bathroom and then in our other bathroom. And that makes a difference. But I just spend five to 15 minutes in a different room. Now we have a couple of rooms that we don’t use pretty regularly and I’ve closed those off. So I don’t really count those, but we have the kitchen, the living room, the dining room, our bedroom, my office, Roger’s office and all the bathrooms.

    Tonya Kubo (17:21.274)

    Hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (17:41.71)

    You know every day I’ll just pick a room that’s like making me a little insane and just spend five to fifteen minutes like Roger’s Office bathroom I can clean that whole thing in about five minutes. It’s it’s the world’s smallest bathroom. It doesn’t have a shower or anything like that. But you know my bathroom that’s gonna take you know I’m not gonna spend a half hour 45 minutes on it

    Tonya Kubo (17:47.236)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (17:56.238)

    Right. Yes. Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (18:08.386)

    I’m just gonna do 15 minutes to get it back into fighting order. Now, if you’re cleaning your whole house and you have a huge house, you’re gonna need to dedicate more time to that. But Roger is very invested in the happy marriage and me and him, by the way, like every minute I’m cleaning, he would be cleaning too, because that’s just how our marriage works. And he doesn’t wanna spend all that time cleaning on Saturdays either.

    Tonya Kubo (18:12.367)

    Right.

    Tonya Kubo (18:18.926)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (18:28.368)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (18:34.394)

    Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (18:34.478)

    That’s not what he wants to be doing either. And so we’ve decided this investment for us. And by the way, it’s a lot less expensive here than it is other parts of the country. I’m not going to lie. We’re very grateful. And we forced her to take raises because we’re like, you’re actually worth more than you’re charging. So Tonya, any cleaning things that are a habit for you that I, I should have mentioned, but I didn’t because I don’t know the secret life of Tonya Kubo.

    Tonya Kubo (18:44.218)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (18:48.162)

    Yeah

    Tonya Kubo (19:01.99)

    Well, I think so for me a lot of it has to do with splitting up the labor, which I think we’ve covered but I would just like to Yeah Well because they’re splitting up the labor between people but also between sessions I think a lot of us claim the way that we were taught and some of us were never taught anything, right? So So it’s this hodgepodge of things, but you don’t actually

    Kathi Lipp (19:10.166)

    We can never talk about it enough. We can never talk about it enough.

    Kathi Lipp (19:22.688)

    Mmm. Right. Right.

    Tonya Kubo (19:30.874)

    have to mop right after you sweep. You could sweep before bed and mop first thing in the morning.

    Kathi Lipp (19:33.89)

    That’s true. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. You just want to do it before the grime builds up.

    Tonya Kubo (19:42.902)

    Right. But I mean, that’s a possibility. There have been asked there have been times in my life because there’s been times in my life, like when I was in grad school and working full time and Abby was too, we had a housekeeper. But there have been times in my life where I could I had time to fill the mop bucket and I had time to like mop. But if I had to sweep before I did it, it wasn’t going to happen. So I have mopped a gross, dirty floor that has not been swept and just said, you know what?

    Kathi Lipp (19:44.696)

    Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (20:07.138)

    Right.

    Yeah, right?

    Tonya Kubo (20:12.41)

    Whatever ends up in the mop water ends up in the mop water. I’ll dump it out. I’ll sweep afterward. Like, you know, you just have to decide what the priority is. There are days I would prefer personally that we clean the entire fridge, that we empty out the fridge, clean it, wipe down all the shelves prior to going grocery shopping. That would be my perfect scenario. Sometimes, however, all we have time to do is like clear out the leftover containers.

    Kathi Lipp (20:17.56)

    Yeah?

    Kathi Lipp (20:31.214)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (20:34.904)

    Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (20:42.316)

    Yeah, yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (20:43.398)

    And I only have time to wipe down the fridge maybe once a week, once a month, once every other month, who knows? So I think those are some things that we need to give ourselves grace to do what works for us right now. I know a lot of our Clutter Free for Life members, because we talk a little bit more about cleaning there, not because it’s a cleaning program, but just we just go deeper in that program. And I know a lot of members, hear like

    Kathi Lipp (21:06.979)

    Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (21:10.97)

    They hear a parent voice in their head scolding them for being lazy, for being a slob, know, all these ugly names. And so I just think we need to be kind to ourselves and understand that going back to the beginning, right, waiting until it gets super grimy and where we can feel that satisfaction, that actually isn’t kind to ourselves.

    Kathi Lipp (21:14.412)

    Right.

    Kathi Lipp (21:22.179)

    Yeah.

    Kathi Lipp (21:28.43)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (21:33.834)

    It’s not. And you know what? You should listen to those voices if they’re coming over to your house to clean. If they’re showing up with their mop and bucket, go off clean. You can clean however you want. But also, this is why I don’t micromanage how Roger cleans, which is different than how I clean, because different things are important to him. I’m just grateful it’s getting done. I’m grateful. And he’s grateful it’s getting done when I do it. And that’s a beautiful thing.

    Tonya Kubo (21:40.006)

    Amen.

    Tonya Kubo (21:46.548)

    Hahaha

    Tonya Kubo (21:53.232)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (22:03.266)

    The last thing I’m going to say is when you are feeling really stressed and really behind the two things I would really encourage you to stay on top of if at all possible, it’s laundry and dishes. Like those are the things that are harder. They’re harder if you let them go. And so I, I want you to be able to come downstairs if you live upstairs, you know, and there is room to put dishes in your sink.

    Tonya Kubo (22:10.618)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (22:16.261)

    Yeah.

    Tonya Kubo (22:21.008)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (22:28.208)

    Mm-hmm.

    Kathi Lipp (22:32.184)

    There is room to put dishes if you have a dishwasher. You don’t have to go hunting for clothes. So stay on top of those routines because a dirty floor takes kind of the same amount of time unless it’s really, really bad. But I just want you to be able to live in peace with the processes you have. Tonya, this has been so good. Thank you so much.

    Tonya Kubo (22:39.735)

    Mm-hmm.

    Tonya Kubo (22:56.934)

    Thanks for having this conversation. This is a good one.

    Kathi Lipp (23:00.074)

    Yeah, I needed to hear it today too. And friends, thank you for being here. And if you’re feeling behind on cleaning, just know that you are going to be okay. Start to put some little routines into your life that are going to take care of your future self, because that’s what we’re about. You’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter-free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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