Kathi Lipp (00:08)
Well, hey friend, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps every day to live with less clutter and more life. I’m Kathi Lipp. Today I am here with Tonya Kubo. Hey Tonya. And we are tackling another project. I think this may rank as one of my least favorite areas to declutter and clean. It is

Tonya Kubo (00:22)
Hey, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (00:38)
Under the kitchen sink. How do you feel about under? I anything where I have to squat down Is going to go pretty low on the list

Tonya Kubo (00:47)
Yeah,

and my house is old, so underneath the sink smells funny. Not gonna lie. Just smells weird. I just don’t want to go down there.

Kathi Lipp (00:52)
Yeah, okay.

Yeah, you know, several years ago, we we noticed that the outside of our house had a big spot on it. And we’re like, what is that? And it we had a leak under our sink we didn’t know about, and ended up replacing part of our house, you know, the side on the house having to

Tonya Kubo (01:04)
Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:19)
cut that all out, repaint it. Fortunately, we hired somebody who knew what they were doing because that’s not mine and Roger’s giftedness. But it’s important that you’re down there pretty regularly and inspecting things because…

Tonya Kubo (01:34)
for that

exact reason, which is also why I avoid it.

Kathi Lipp (01:38)
Yeah, I

know, right? There’s a show that Roger and I love, it’s called Mom, and somebody was at Bonnie’s house and they moved the bookcase and she says, you have mold, you you have a wet spot. And she goes, I know, and I paint it and it goes away for six months. And it’s like…

Why do you think we have the desk where we have it? It’s not because we want it there. Yeah, but you know, this stuff can be serious and it’s also annoying. Tonya, let’s talk under the sink.

Tonya Kubo (02:15)
All right, so it’s a catch-all, which you’ve established. We avoid it, which we’ve also established. So how do we get started if we want to doom clean under the sink?

Kathi Lipp (02:19)
Yeah, yes.

Hahaha

Yeah, so first of all, we have to declutter and it was so interesting just the other day. We had our windshield replaced on our car because Giant Boulder came at my face. I was like, it was was not fun, but we got it. And the people who replaced it, they had a big old can. They gave us a big old can of auto window cleaner. And I said, as I was.

Tonya Kubo (02:40)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:57)
Like, where do we put this? And I said, Roger, where would you first think to look when you needed auto window cleaner? And he said, under the sink. I’m like.

Tonya Kubo (03:06)
Hahaha!

Kathi Lipp (03:09)
Really?

Tonya Kubo (03:10)
But it’s true because you’re like, I mean, this was in my house two weeks ago. Lily was looking for something random and it’s like, it’s so random. Where would you put that? I bet I would put that under the sink. And she went and it was there.

Kathi Lipp (03:23)
Really?

My good. Okay. Well see I cannot argue when I say I’m going to ask you the question Where would you first look for this and I was thinking our auto supplies. nene It’s under the sink. Okay, apparently Roger has been affirmed in this so Yeah, we’re gonna pull everything out. We’re gonna empty that cabinet and You just need to see everything sponges have to empty cleaners

And there’s nothing wrong with a half empty cleaner, but if you have the half empty cleaner plus the full cleaner plus another half empty cleaner, et cetera, et cetera, you’re gonna have stuff down there you forgot and you have. So we’re gonna, yes please.

Tonya Kubo (04:08)
Yes. Do you want to hear my story? Six.

So I keep the white vinegar underneath the sink too in a big jug because old house stinky disposal. Right. So we had been buying a hand wash like dish, Dawn dish soap. I pulled out the vinegar. I had six dish soaps behind it, but they’re short. They’re short. The vinegar was tall.

Kathi Lipp (04:14)
Okay, uh-huh. Right, yeah.

Yeah.

I’m not gonna fault you. Yes, I know. And

right, I totally get that. Apparently I was deathly afraid that the world was gonna run out of Dawn Powerwash.

Tonya Kubo (04:45)
I’m definitely afraid of that. That has changed our life since we discovered it at your house.

Kathi Lipp (04:49)
Right? It’s so great. And so it feels like every time I went to Costco, I bought the three pack. We’re good. We are so good. Yeah, as one does. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (05:00)
as one does. All right.

So you pull everything out so that you can be like me and discover that you actually have six dishwashing detergent things.

Kathi Lipp (05:08)
Yeah,

so you’re gonna either put that all on your counter on the kitchen table whatever makes sense to you Yeah, you’re gonna keep the products you actually use I don’t care if it’s full full You know a quarter full if you use it and if you can combine things now be very careful with combining things You’re not gonna come buying Bleach and other things right? We’re not gonna be that’s I couldn’t think of the word. Yes We’re not gonna do that because we want everybody to stay alive

Tonya Kubo (05:31)
No bleach and ammonia. Please do not do that.

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (05:38)
So you’re only going to combine like with like. Donate or give away. If you have, you know, maybe 20 Dawn Power washes, maybe it’s time to donate a few of those to your local food pantry. But, you know, don’t, we’re never donating junk guys. And then we’re going to toss things like expired chemicals, moldy sponges, broken tools. Now, when I say we’re going to toss expired chemicals, you’re going to check

Tonya Kubo (05:56)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:08)
with your local municipality about how you get rid of chemicals. You know what, can I just say there have been hostage negotiations that take less back and forth than us getting rid of chemicals in the greater Sacramento area. But you know what, we’re gonna do it right. and you know, dried paint, things like that. We’re just, we’re gonna do all the right things. You’re going to…

Tonya Kubo (06:24)
Hahaha

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:35)
Check for duplicates and safety. So first you’re gonna pull everything out. Second, you’re gonna sort items. Check for duplicates and safety. So if you have three bottles, same cleaner, like we said, combine or let some go. There are some chemicals that can be hazardous, so we’re going to dispose of those properly. But also make sure, check expiration dates. If something is a chemical and it’s out of date,

It’s probably time to dispose of it properly. And then four, you’re gonna decide how many backups can I, six may be too much of maybe. how many backup cleaners do you realistically need? The more backups you hold, the more clutter you risk. So keep a small stash, not an entire store’s worth. So what I’ve done is I have put those Dawn containers

Tonya Kubo (07:11)
Maybe.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:32)
into we have a very high shelf in our garage, but I checked that before I go to Costco and I don’t think I’ve bought any Dawn Power Wash in the last year. So this is a victory. So you have to be able to see it friends.

Tonya Kubo (07:48)
I think that’s the big lesson through this whole series too, right? Is what you can’t see tends to pile up, right? No matter what your daily habits are. And you know, like before the dishwasher soap incident, I would have said that making me pull everything out of underneath my sink would have made me super nervous because honestly, I’m just afraid every time I pull stuff out that I’m gonna find a leak of some sort. That’s really my fear.

Kathi Lipp (07:55)
Great.

Yes, I get

it. Right.

Tonya Kubo (08:16)
is that I’m gonna go

push something through and my hand’s gonna go through the floor. I’ve seen that movie. That doesn’t work out, right? But to your point, it’s the only way to see what’s down there. It’s the only way to figure out if it makes sense. And it’s the only way to really get it clean, which brings me to the next segment of this particular episode.

Kathi Lipp (08:19)
Yes. Yes.

Yeah,

but Tonya, I’m also going to talk about the fear of the drip here for a second. We want a drip, not a demo. OK? I want you to catch the drip before we have to go to power tools, which is what Roger and I had to do. So I’m speaking out. I’m laying myself bare for this experience. So yes, let’s talk about cleaning.

Tonya Kubo (08:51)
Right.

Kathi Lipp (09:08)
Let’s get started with this is that you’re you’re gonna pull everything out and this is the time to disinfect Okay, so that’s before you do anything else and I know we’re gonna be talking a lot about how to clean all this but use I want you to use something that has a disinfecting spray because like you said water mold crusty residue soap

Tonya Kubo (09:23)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:37)
Leaked liquids. I I want you to wipe down and disavow. know this is such an exciting thing, right? I mean I see your face

Tonya Kubo (09:44)
Super exciting.

Yeah, I’m making my poo face as my kids call it. But the wiping down and disinfecting is really important and it is an important first step. I would love for us to tackle the rest of the steps after our commercial break. So we are gonna just take a quick break, pay a few bills, and then we’re gonna come back and talk more about what cleaning looks like underneath the sink.

Kathi Lipp (09:49)
Okay.

Tonya Kubo (10:14)
Welcome back, Kathi you have helped us declutter. You talked to us about wiping down, disinfecting, especially because there’s spills, there’s leaks. We talked about maybe some mildew and yucky stuff. Now take us to the rest of the steps.

Kathi Lipp (10:18)
Yes.

Okay, so one, wipe down the disinfect, two, address those leaks or dampness. Now, I will find this little tool. I didn’t think about it until we were talking right now, but one of my nephews is a building, like he knows everything. He’s a world expert on concrete, which is, know, but an interesting, and I learned from him that concrete,

Either has no Wait either has cracks or is going to crack so that’s good information to know I didn’t know that but also he told me about a tool that you can get on Amazon that Detects leaks and dampness so I yeah, so if that is something that is a problem for you I’ll find the one that he recommends

Because I think that that’s important for us to have but check things check to see if things are wet Check the garbage disposal and seals if you see moisture or mildew fix it before putting anything back Okay, and then I’m gonna ask you to vacuum and sweep you may want to do this before you wipe things down But you know there’s floor under the sink if you need to get under their crayon crumbs and dust pile up quick vacuum

Tonya Kubo (11:27)
Okay.

Kathi Lipp (11:55)
or sweep ensures a fresh start. We love a fresh start. We love a clean sleep. And then I want you to let it dry thoroughly. Leave the doors open. If you need to stick a fan there to let everything, you don’t want to put moisture on top of moisture. So we’re gonna spend a little time just letting everything dry out. Bone dry cabinets prevent further musty smells, mold issues.

Tonya Kubo (11:58)
We do.

Kathi Lipp (12:23)
And I’m also gonna come back and say, wipe down the sides of the walls, okay? And this is where, you know, I just, want you to have a fresh start in that space. I use, there is a great misting spray. It’s a Clorox disinfecting spray that I have that I really like for those kind of different areas that can tend to have.

Tonya Kubo (12:29)
Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:53)
You know, you can have some issues build up there. So we’ll be sure to put that in there as well. But I really want to spend the bulk of our time here today, Tonya, talking about how do you organize for longevity? How do you organize so that you can go to that space? And Tonya, I want to take away the fear of under the sink. So that’s where I want to spend most of our time.

Tonya Kubo (13:23)
Okay, okay. So I think we should just take a quick break so that you can have that uninterrupted at this point. So please just stick with us because Kathi’s gonna come back and walk us through quite a few steps and some detail when it comes to organizing the under the sink area because it is so problematic. We’ll be right back.

Kathi Lipp (13:30)
Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:46)
All right, Kathi, take us home. How do we organize under the sink so that it stays neat?

Kathi Lipp (13:49)
Yes.

Let me tell you my goal here. When it comes to the area under the sink, we’re aiming for solutions, not storage of unresolved stuff. Let’s reclaim that space, friend. Let’s reclaim that space, okay? Because it’s very easy to just shove things that you don’t know what to do with them under the sink and just say, okay, well, that’s the place I would look for them. No, I want better for you, my friend. Okay.

So here are a few options of things that have really helped me with some of my, and by the way, this could be under your bathroom sink, this could be your kitchen sink, this could be utility room, all these places. first thing I wanna talk about are these two-tiered sliding drawers or caddies. They are perfect, they’re two-tier, so you get double space because,

That under the sink area can be pretty tall. It’s gonna be, for most modern homes, about the height of your dishwasher. And our dishwashers have two to three tiers on them. So let’s use that vertical space as much as we can. Now you’re under the sink. It was built in the 1950s. What does yours look like?

Tonya Kubo (15:12)
Well, so our garbage disposal takes up most of the under the sink space. So we’ve just got the space on either side of it. It’s weird. Super weird. ?

Kathi Lipp (15:15)
Yeah, okay.

Yeah, okay. So I may have a solution for you though.

I may have something for you. There are these slide out caddies that fit around your pipes, including, it might be wide enough to fit around your garbage disposal and your pipe under the sink. so those, you build them in, you screw them into the floor and they can pull out and give you a lot more storage space. So I don’t know, you…

Here’s what I’m gonna say every single episode. You’re gonna get so sick of me saying this, Tonya, but you have to.

Tonya Kubo (15:54)
Wait, let me guess, let

me guess. Should I measure it first?

Kathi Lipp (15:57)
You should measure it which can I just guys I am the most unmeasured person like That looks like it would work No more. I am now a measuring tape full I want you you have to measure how deep it is how wide your stuff is and then we’ll put a link in there to see if that could fit another Solution might be stackable bits

So if your sink pipes are in the way using shorter bins that fit on either side, that may be have to, you know, what the most that you could do, Tonya. And then we talked about this last time and I know you haven’t had a chance to implement it yet, but I’m going to tempt you again with door mounted racks or hooks. Yes. You do. Okay. A strip.

Tonya Kubo (16:45)
I do have that underneath my sink. have, what do you call it? Like a, it’s a rod,

a rod, you know, to hang the towels or your rubber gloves or anything like that.

Kathi Lipp (16:52)
? okay. ? nice. Yes. Okay.

That I love that. Okay. My next thing I’m going to talk about is also rod related. And that is a tension rod. Now, why would you think why would you put a tension rod there for you can put spray bottles, you can hang those by their handles, or yes.

Tonya Kubo (17:05)
Mmm.

Yeah.

I could hang

spray bottles on mine. It is the perfect size because it’s not too thick. It’s not too thick.

Kathi Lipp (17:24)
Okay, so we’re gonna need to make sure that we see your you know You can give us a link to what you’ve used so I think this is such a small space But I want you to maximize it as much as possible because as we’ve determined It’s really really valuable, and I I’ll be honest with you. I have maximized many of my spaces

Tonya Kubo (17:38)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:47)
I haven’t maximized all of my, we have a weird bathroom upstairs that I need to, it needs to be more maximized. So we’ve got these ideas for you. gonna, we have a download with all of these links that you can use. But then I want you to think back to how can you group these by categories? So are there things you use every day? I remember when I had my apartment in Japan, I just had a little.

Tonya Kubo (17:55)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:14)
that I kept under the sink and I pulled it out every day and it had my washcloths, had my spray bottle, it had my sponges. That could be something you do. Backup items or less used products can go towards the back or the upper tiers, but you wanna keep those things that you’re using all the time. And then number three, label and limit. Label and limit how much you’re keeping of things.

Tonya Kubo (18:29)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:42)
Limit bins or baskets, for instance, cleaning cloths, trash bags, sponges. Also, if you bring in a new product, consider using up the old one. I don’t want you to hoard half-used containers, but I also don’t want you to throw away perfectly good products. So challenge yourself to use up what you have before buying something new. Or say, hey, I have a week left of this. I need to put it on my shopping list. And then…

Are there some additional items you need? If you’re storing any towels or rags, there are such things as moisture proof bins. So if you get a lot of moisture in your house, you may want to consider something like that. Or it might make sense to put a non-slip shelf liner to prevent bottles from sliding around. those are just, again, everybody’s under the sink area is so completely different.

There is no one size fits all, maybe a combination of some of these ideas could really help you out.

Tonya Kubo (19:45)
? gosh, I love that. tension rods, you that’s one of those things I see on TikTok a lot. Like you can do a lot of things with a tension rod. Who knew? And, but the hanging of the spray bottles, I don’t know why I’ve never thought about that. Mainly just because I moved in here and I use everything like the prior owners used it because I just don’t have energy for creativity.

Kathi Lipp (19:53)
You really can. Yes.

Yeah,

right, that’s okay. Your creativity is going to building a business. We use a lot of tension rods in our RV as well for storage and hanging and it’s made a big difference. So you’re right, there’s a lot of tension stuff. We’ll have to really explore tension rods in some of these upcoming episodes, because I think that could be a solution for a lot of people who are living in small spaces.

Tonya Kubo (20:16)
Mmm.

Yeah, okay, so tension rod and we’ve talked about labeling, which I love because I think if you live in a house where it’s more than just you, labeling is the secret to getting other people to help out because then they can’t tell you that they don’t know where things go.

Kathi Lipp (20:49)
Right, absolutely, absolutely. I think you’re exactly right there.

Tonya Kubo (20:53)
So Kathi, are there any final tips you want to tell us you want to add before we wrap up this particular episode on that under the sink area?

Kathi Lipp (21:03)
Yeah, this is the cave of the house, isn’t it? It is the dark, damp cave. But you can do most of this in under an hour if you declutter clean and then organize. First, organize with bins or caddies you have. And Tonya, let me just say, don’t sleep on Dollar Tree. I’m sending you links because

Tonya Kubo (21:06)
It really is.

Kathi Lipp (21:31)
There are not Dollar Tree links as far as I know. yeah, so, but there are caddies you can get at Dollar Tree. You can get tension rods at Dollar Tree. So, you know, one of the things I heard somebody say recently, I thought this was so brilliant. They said, you know, when they were buying tools for their first house, their grandfather said, buy the cheapest tools you can get. And then,

Tonya Kubo (21:34)
Not as far as I know either.

Kathi Lipp (22:00)
When those break, you know you use those enough to replace with something of quality. And I thought, that’s so smart. Instead of buying the best thing ever for every space, buy something, you know, for these solutions. I’ll just tell you, Tonya, I’m trying out all sorts of different organization solutions. I went and I dropped $40 at Dollar Tree.

Tonya Kubo (22:30)
?

Kathi Lipp (22:30)
You

can buy a lot of stuff at Dollar Tree. And so I’m trying to find out what’s the path of least resistance? Do I need the $25 Amazon thing or can I get away with the $1.25 version at Dollar Tree? And some of the things, let’s be honest, what you’re getting from Amazon or IKEA or, you know, there’s still Bed Bath and Beyond, you know, stuff you can buy.

Tonya Kubo (22:36)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (22:59)
Some of that it’s worth it to buy the solution that you need but some of it the dollar 25 version might be just fine. things like that for little storage under your sink. Don’t sleep on Dollar Tree. That’s what I would say.

Tonya Kubo (23:15)
my gosh, I think that’s a really good tip. And the big one there is just get the cheapest thing that makes sense. And when it breaks, when it wears out, then you know that it’s time to invest in something of a little higher quality versus buying top of the line because we’re buying to belong because we cluttery people do that thinking it’s going to make us more organized, more this, more that. And then finding out that we just don’t use it at all.

Kathi Lipp (23:31)
Exactly.

We love that.

Yeah, know, Tonya, we talked a little bit about this last time, sitting with our discomfort sometimes. And you said that, you you bought a pantry and you thought you needed more space, but what you really needed was to declutter and then put in a couple of organizational tools. And I love that example because that’s exactly it. Sit with your discomfort. Like, why does this area under the sink bother me? Well, I’m worried about…

Tonya Kubo (23:49)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (24:12)
the drips, I’m worried about whatever that is, I don’t feel like there’s enough space, we can address that. So sit with your discomfort for a little bit, buy the cheapest solution you can and then upgrade when you need to.

Tonya Kubo (24:18)
Mm-hmm.

my gosh, such juicy, juicy tidbits of wisdom. Thank you so much, Kathi. And thank you for addressing this, because I don’t think I’ve ever heard or saw anything in recent memory, at least that talks about the Under the Sink, but you’ve given me a whole new perspective on it. So I really appreciate that. And listeners, thank you for joining us today. Thank you for sticking it out, learning all about the dank dark underneath the sink area.

Kathi Lipp (24:45)
Yay!

Yeah

Tonya Kubo (24:54)
We appreciate it. You have been listening to Clutterfree Academy. Now go create the clutter free life you have always wanted to live.