#681 &#8211; Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

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Meet Our Guest

Tenneil Register

Tenneil Register can be found creating, repurposing, decorating, gardening and welcoming guests to their reclaimed barn storefront. She and her husband, Cowboy, established rural roots for their blended family of 7 in their DIY ranch home in Iowa. Connect with her on Instagram for practical ideas to reclaim your home.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:11)

Hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps every day to live with less clutter and more life. I’m back with one of my favorite human beings on the planet. It is Tenille Register. Hey, Tenille.

Tenneil Register (00:25)

Hey Kathi!

Kathi Lipp (00:28)

So here’s the thing I know about you I would not consider you one of the more naturally cluttery people in my life But I will say this I think you have just about more moving parts than anybody else That then I know I there are some people They you know, we talked about this with being overwhelmed. Some people have ? Demi toss cup size platters

Tenneil Register (00:44)

Yeah

Kathi Lipp (00:54)

And you have a turkey size platter about how much you do and how much you accomplish but all of that accomplishment leads to clutter and Here’s what I know about you. No, I don’t know this about you, but i’m going to posture this about you most people downsize because they have to But you have chosen to do it for peace. Does that make sense?

Tenneil Register (01:20)

It absolutely does because in these endeavors, we have access to a lot of square footage that we could continue to store and store. And because our businesses are things like Airbnb’s apartments, retail store, I could justify keeping almost anything because we will use it. So yeah, I would say I am very intentionally, actually it’s a July tradition for us.

Kathi Lipp (01:28)

Thank you.

Right.

Tenneil Register (01:50)

to get rid of things just for the sake of getting rid of them to make sure that we don’t kind of go over the threshold of how many things we can be responsible for.

Kathi Lipp (02:00)

Okay, so tell me about this July tradition because explain to me why we pick the hottest month of the year. Like that’s my favorite excuse. I can’t declutter out, you know, in the barn or the garage because it’s just too hot. Yeah, so tell me more about this. I love this.

Tenneil Register (02:22)

Because many people like you are celebrating Lowe by July, so it’s our slow season.

Kathi Lipp (02:29)

Nice! okay, that makes so much sense, yes!

Tenneil Register (02:34)

Truly it’s just our downtime. A lot of people are vacationing. There’s not a lot, ? July the yard work even kind of evens out. Like you have to mow but not pulling a ton of weeds. it’s just kind of a slow season. And so we just ? roll up our sleeves and do it. And we have done everything from like literally bringing in a roll off dumpster to our driveway so that there’s no ? like decision making involved. It just went in the dumpster.

Kathi Lipp (02:43)

Yes, for us too.

Yes.

Tenneil Register (03:03)

? And you guys, that’s not irresponsible. We are repurposers. So if we are not repurposing it, it is not repurposable and that’s why the dumpster. ? Or just like making frequent trips for ice cream and dropping off at the Goodwill. This year has not been a dumpster year, but I would say every three to four years we have a dumpster worthy purge.

Kathi Lipp (03:10)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Yeah.

Yes, and you know what? I think that that is one thing that as cluttery people You know, we’ve been told You know reuse re, you know reduce recycle and here’s what I know A lot of cluttery people tend to keep stuff because they don’t know what to do with it. They’re like, okay if I throw this away i’m a bad person and

Tenneil Register (03:48)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (03:54)

I think that there is no value, there is no virtue in keeping it in your house or in your space as opposed to the dump. ? I think the virtue comes when, if it can’t be donated, if it can’t be reused in some way, don’t bring it into your house again, but it’s okay to get rid of it. Does that make sense? Am I saying that correctly?

Tenille knows I’m recovering from COVID, so she’s gonna explain things that are jumbly out of my mouth, but she can make it make sense.

Tenneil Register (04:20)

It was.

just have a good example from my office closet clean out. I had these stacks that I bought on clearance of like little stickers that you mark your planner with or different little notepads and that kind of thing. And I bought them when I was coaching teachers because teachers like those kinds of things. And so I had this stack of them. I will…

Kathi Lipp (04:30)

Please.

Mmm. Yeah.

Tenneil Register (04:51)

I was about to like say, you know, I could take that out to California when I meet with the authors and give them a goodie bag. And then I thought to myself, me, why would you fly this stuff all the way across the country? That’s silly. And so I put it in the goodwill bag. But by the time I finished cleaning out the closet, the truth was the monetary value of what was in that goodwill bag is not worth what they’re going to pay somebody to sort through the bag.

Kathi Lipp (04:59)

Mm-hmm.

Tenneil Register (05:20)

And so I put it in my car intending to go to the Goodwill, but when I went to the trash can, I just put it in there. It’s a small sack. The energy used in gas, thought, then them sorting it. There wasn’t enough in there to be worth monetarily doing that. And for me, I think you said it right. I keep it out of guilt. So giving myself permission to almost like rebel against the system and just throw it away strengthens my decluttering skills.

Kathi Lipp (05:21)

Hmm.

Yes. ?

Right.

Yes, and it’s the resolve to you know, I threw this way do not bring it back into the house Do not bring similar things back into the house

Tenneil Register (05:59)

Right, because I threw it away, I’m not going to pick those up on clearance the next

Kathi Lipp (06:03)

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, here’s the thing. Why do we think we have to keep something just because we have the room? Like, why do we why are we afraid of that space? Do you think?

Tenneil Register (06:17)

I don’t know, when we bought our home to fight against that, I tried to keep an empty drawer in each room. As a way of saying, like, I don’t want to give into this ideal that because we have the space, we should fill it, or because we have the space, we should keep the items. And so I almost think…

Kathi Lipp (06:25)

Mmm, really?

Yeah.

Tenneil Register (06:41)

I think we probably have an idea that we’re not being a good steward of things or that we don’t have our adult self together if we have gaps, right? But the same way we’re learning gaps in our schedule allows us to love people, I’m learning that an empty drawer allows me to love someone too because I can tell the guests that drawer is empty, feel free to use it.

Kathi Lipp (06:46)

Mm-hmm.

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, I do have empty drawers in all of our guest rooms, but there are other spaces that are filled to the brim. so may I, you know, I am still deconstructing my cluttery ways and I want to live a life of peace. And when everything is filled, like if I bring something new into the house and I have to get rid of something in order to make room for it.

Tenneil Register (07:08)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (07:31)

That’s not a peaceful circumstance because that new thing has to sit out until I find the new place for it. And so as ? I am more of a maximalist than a minimalist, but I need to become less afraid of empty spaces. And that’s something I’m working on. Okay, friends, we’re going to take a little break and we’re going to come back and I want to talk about what happens when you choose space over stuff. What does that do to your brain?

What does that do to your heart and how can we actually do that? So we’re going to take a quick break and come right back. Okay, guys, we are back. I am here with Tenille Register, who is just, I think she’s probably mentally ill because she says she keeps an empty drawer in all of her rooms to remind herself. I don’t even know what that would feel like and I need to figure that out. So what happens?

What’s the feeling for you when you are choosing space? How does that feel for you?

Tenneil Register (08:35)

I feel like I’m leaving room for something else good to come into my life. I know that sounds kind of like spiritually strange, but I just feel a little woo woo. But if I’m overflowing with things, then literally if I bring a new thing home or if somebody gives me a gift, then I have this huge project of figuring out where to put it. Where if I have some space,

Kathi Lipp (08:41)

Mmm. ?

Woo woo, but I love woo woo, go for it.

Yeah.

Tenneil Register (09:03)

And I am not the master of this, it’s a work in progress. Like I said, the closets that I cleaned out yesterday, I actually called my husband and when I cleaned out these closets, I got rid of a filing cabinet and a dresser that were in these two closets. And I said, okay, but what are we gonna put in them? And then as we talked about it, what if it was just an empty closet with floor space?

Kathi Lipp (09:30)

I don’t even know how to think about that, be honest.

Tenneil Register (09:36)

Right, because I felt like I needed to add like a bookshelf for some bins of storage or a bench that we could put something under. Like naturally my brain tried to do that. And so I’m in this place where I’m like, what if there was just an empty closet so that if I got an Amazon box at the same time company was coming, I had an empty closet to go set the Amazon box in until I had time to open it. Like, I don’t know, I haven’t mastered it, but this is my what if that I’m in right now.

Kathi Lipp (09:42)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Okay, I have to tell you, I have done this in our front closet ? because that’s the place where, know, normally when you get an Amazon box or something like that, you would put it, but it’s always been packed to the gills. So instead, what I did was I bought ? some storage things for that, which I’ll talk about in our things that have earned a place in my clutter free home. And

? Now, if something comes into our house, that can be its temporary holding place. And it feels so good to say it doesn’t just have to get piled on top of something. And that makes it, yeah, it’s, you know, we don’t need more bins necessarily, we need breathing room. And sometimes the bins can help us with the breathing room. But sometimes it’s just organizing our clutter. And we need less of that.

Tenneil Register (11:06)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (11:07)

Yeah.

So, where do you start?

With this idea it because it feeling very radical and I’m sorry. My dog is now climbing on my desk right now Little distracting we’re gonna get her off. Yes. She she she does this with you and with Tonya she really likes She knows you guys. Yes. So yes, she she likes to come up and just check out if that’s her friend Okay, please continue

Tenneil Register (11:21)

?

She knows.

Yeah, so I mean, I think the one thing is just choosing the space that you’re going to have empty, right? Like, is it going to be the tiniest little drawer? Is it just going to be eight inches on the shelf, you know, in the pantry? Like, where is the empty place going to be? And then it’s almost like playing a game with yourself. How long can I leave this empty?

Kathi Lipp (11:48)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tenneil Register (12:05)

before you even know how you’re gonna use the empty space. I know this sounds like radically strange, ? but for example, like in our bathroom, the bottom drawer is what I decided to leave empty. So what that meant was like, actually we don’t need as many bath towels as we have, downsizing the number of bath towels that we have. No, the water pick, no one has pulled that out in three years to use the water pick. We might’ve paid a lot of

Kathi Lipp (12:18)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Right.

Tenneil Register (12:34)

it and been excited about it, but we’re going to get rid of that. And then we’re going to have this empty kind of holding space. So I think, I think it’s almost just like trying to set a rule for yourself and like looking at it as a challenge. And of course, there has to be room for grace and flexibility. If I find them overflowing, I may have to put some stuff in that drawer. The key is to come back to it and review it.

Kathi Lipp (12:58)

Exactly.

Right and to you know, all that back stock we have like in my bathroom i’m like Why am I keeping so many candles in my bathroom? Like that just doesn’t make sense It’s time to get rid of some of those so there can be that space because if I can’t put something down because that space is so crowded Then there there need to be some hard decisions and my tips would be start with the least emotional space I think when we go and we say we want to create space

The first thing we think about are grandma’s photo albums because it’s like there’s an emotional anchor to that. Don’t start there. Start with the bathroom towels. Like, do I really need eight towels in my bathroom? Or can two hanging in the bathroom and two back up be enough? What is enough for that? And then celebrate one win. Take a picture. If you’re in our free group.

Clutter-free Academy or our paid group clutter free for life take a picture because the rest of us get this right there may be people who don’t get how important this is but we all get it and creating this visual space like one of the things I’m really convicted about is not convicted but the place where I need to do this is there I I Have a couch table behind my couch in the living room

that kind of stays the same all year. And wouldn’t it be fun to put, ? Roger just gave me the most beautiful picture for Mother’s Day. It’s like hand painted, it has a rabbit on it. I love it so much. Why am I putting that in the kind of chaos of my kitchen instead of pulling that into the living room and putting some branches in it or something like that? So I’m gonna go do that today. I’m gonna clear off that place.

I think we just get comfortable with something that we’ve liked and it’s hard for us to imagine. It takes energy for us to imagine something else. But this is your challenge. So, you know, what would you downsize right now? Is it a drawer? Is it a closet? Is it a table? For me, it’s going to be a table. Anything come to mind for you Tenneil?

Tenneil Register (15:18)

? Yes, it’s going to be ? continuing here in the office, like how I store my office supplies, right? Like I have a cubby that I like, I have a tray that I don’t like, like downsize how I keep my office supplies.

Kathi Lipp (15:26)

you

Mmm. Yeah and think about this guys and Tenneil is the expert at this Do you have like I have a cake stand that I don’t need I’ve got three cake stands Do I need three cake stands? But could I use that in other parts of my house? Once I clear away the clutter give me some other ideas Tenneil because you’re so good at this stuff

Tenneil Register (15:55)

First of all, the cake stand has to be somewhere with the candle on it because it’s a beautiful way to keep your candle.

Kathi Lipp (16:01)

?

yeah, I love that. Okay, I can do that.

Tenneil Register (16:04)

?

Yeah, yeah. So ? I love crocks like bowl crocks. So like, I try to use them to store things, but then they end up with too much in them. And so ? using them for objects that make sense, like a crock bowl is perfect for paper plates, right? Or you regularly grab and go like that. And so what

Kathi Lipp (16:12)

Mm-hmm.

? yeah!

So smart.

Tenneil Register (16:33)

When I start to get bored with my house, it’s actually kind of looking like the size and shape of the objects. Like when I was little and I actually still get satisfaction out of it. You know the shape sorters, like the plastic little type toys shape sorter. If you can start to see your house like a shape sorter, which container is the right shape of item, that’s when you really take off your creativity ? in using.

Kathi Lipp (16:53)

Okay. Okay.

Okay.

Tenneil Register (17:02)

things like cake stands, crock bowls, baskets in an effective way.

Kathi Lipp (17:08)

Okay, give me a couple more ideas of shape sorter ideas, because I love this thought.

Tenneil Register (17:14)

So toolboxes, I love old toolboxes, like especially the little metal caddy kind. And then I put our tabletop games, right? Like our card games, Skip Bo, Uno, that kind of thing, because then it’s got a handle so you can carry it around. So I love that thing. ? And then let’s see.

Kathi Lipp (17:18)

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Tenneil Register (17:38)

I’m gonna go with like, some people would use big baskets. use like, they’re cement troughs. This is gonna sound so strange, but they’re basically like a big metal tub where somebody would mix cement in them in days gone by. And so the result is this big tub that’s the perfect size for like pillows and blankets. You can also do it with a big wooden dowel basket.

Kathi Lipp (18:02)

That’s amazing.

my goodness. ? I love that. And you know, just yesterday I saw somebody who had a magazine rack from probably the nineties or two thousands and they stored ? rolled up pillows or blankets in it and it was so cute. ? I love that.

Tenneil Register (18:23)

Yeah!

Yeah, and those are also great,

like those magazine racks are also good toilet paper holders if you need to store your toilet paper in plain sight or paper towels, that kind of

Kathi Lipp (18:37)

That’s so clever. I love that so much Okay, guys, we’re gonna take a quick break and when I come back We’re gonna talk about some clutter free things some things that have earned a place in my clutter free home. So stick around Okay friends, we are back with things that have earned a place in my clutter free home I don’t even know my own title. So I was telling you earlier in this episode

about a couple of things that I’ve put in my front closet. So one thing is we said, you don’t need more containers to contain your clutter, but we have a lot of things that are in our front hall, that our front hall closet that we need access to things like we have ? stuff for our dog there, stuff for like our keys, Roger’s wallet, those kinds of things. And so we’ve bought two things that have been really helpful.

One are these little, they’re like sorter baskets. They’re probably, for the people who are listening, they’re probably like eight inches by six inches for the big ones. And then there are smaller sizes. And we put things in there like we have a sunscreen basket. We have a bug spray basket. We have a mooses leash and treats basket. And then we have these

Hanging organizers so they hang off of a rod in that closet and they’re just these open baskets that we can put blankets in there or we can put ? All everything that Roger takes to the car. So we have a Roger basket in there. That is his hat He uses a baseball hat his his wallet ? His he uses sunscreen before he gets in the car. So that has made it so we don’t have to keep all that stuff

out all the time and it makes such a big difference. ? Tenneil I know that ? you love to have ways to hide things and so I’m going to send you a link and I’ll put a link in the show notes for you to see these because I think these would be great ways to think about, like you said, what would work in this space like the shape sorter that you were talking about.

Tenneil Register (20:53)

Yes, and I’m changing my mind. I’m not going to organize my office supplies. You’ve just inspired me to use our front hall closet. The front hall closet, we don’t use it for anything useful. So I’m going to look at these favorite things of yours and come up with a way to make that space useful.

Kathi Lipp (20:58)

Do tell. ?

Love it and friends. We love you. Thank you so much for being a part of the podcast You’ve been listening to clutter free Academy. I’m Kathy Lipp now go create the clutter free life. You’ve always wanted to live

Find this episodes full show notes and resources here.

#683 – Declutter Your Bathroom Sink Space (Even With Zero Storage!)

Aug 19, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast, tips and ideas

Tired of opening your bathroom cabinets only to find chaos staring back at you? You're not alone. In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi teams up with decluttering expert Tonya Kubo to tackle one of the most frustrating spaces in many homes: the bathroom sink...

#682 – Back-to-School Prep: Tips for a Smooth Transition

Aug 12, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Parenting, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by Tonya Kubo to tackle the often chaotic back-to-school season. They explore practical strategies to help families organize their homes and lives for a smoother transition into the school year such as ...

#681 – Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

Aug 5, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and the creative genius, Tenille Register, as they explore the journey of embracing space over stuff to live a clutter-free life. In this episode, you'll discover Practical strategies for decluttering with purpose. How choosing space can lead to a...

#670 – Emotional Decluttering: A Journey Through Sentimental Keepsakes

by Clutter Free Academy Team | May 20, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast, tips and ideas | 2 comments

#670 – Emotional Decluttering: A Journey Through Sentimental Keepsakes

Listen Now

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by clutter experts Tonya Kubo and Tenneil Register for the second part of their heartfelt discussion on sentimental items. Discover the emotions that often lead us to hold onto things we neither love nor use, and learn how to navigate these feelings with grace. Whether it’s figuring out what to do with your prom memorabilia or repurposing your grandmother’s teacup, our hosts share practical steps and innovative ideas to help you cherish the memories without clinging to items out of guilt or fear. Tune in to learn how to display the items you love and let go of those you don’t. Plus, dive into Tenneil’s incredible tips on repurposing for a clutter-free home filled with joyful memories. As an added bonus, Kathi cointinues her new segment: “Things That Have Earned A Place in My Clutter Free Home” where she chats with Tenneil about a simple gadget that made a huge difference in storage space in the kitchen!

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

MUDEELA Pot & Pan Organizer

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Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

Leave a note in the comment section below.
Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Meet Our Co-Host

Tenneil Register

Tenneil Register can be found creating, repurposing, decorating, gardening and welcoming guests to their reclaimed barn storefront. She and her husband, Cowboy, established rural roots for their blended family of 7 in their DIY ranch home in Iowa. Connect with her on Instagram for practical ideas to reclaim your home.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:08)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And we are back. We have a three-part series here on sentimental items, how hard they are to declutter, what do we do with them, and maybe just a couple of pieces of advice to say it’s okay to get rid of it and prove that you don’t hate.

the other person who gave it to you or your own life. And I’ve got two of my favorite cluttery experts here. We’ve got Tonya Kubo and Tenneil Register. Hey guys, welcome back to the program.

Tonya Kubo (00:48)

Hey, Kathi, .

Tenneil (00:49)

Hey there!

Kathi Lipp (00:51)

Okay, so Here’s what I want to talk about today Because you guys are such geniuses Tonya about making the hard decisions about getting rid of to Tenneil once you’ve made the decision to keep it What do you actually do with it? And Last week we talked about your kids stuff, which has so much emotional attachment next week We’re to talk about the stuff from people who have passed on

I mean, like we’re just bringing out all the hard hitting subjects right now. But today I want to talk about our own stuff. And I want to talk about why do we hang on to things that is that maybe we know we’re never going to use them. We know that we maybe we don’t even really love them, but we feel such an obligation to keep them.

I’ve had that for a couple of different items in my life I feel like Through a lot of growth and let me be honest from a couple of people passing on I’ve been able to get rid of some things But I just wonder do any either of you have any insight to this? Why do we hang on to stuff even? Sometimes I don’t even think it brings back great memories, but we just can’t seem to let it go

Tenneil (02:16)

Letting go is scary because we’re wondering what that means about us and what that means about that relationship.

Kathi Lipp (02:25)

Tell me more about that.

Tenneil (02:28)

So when we’re walking through it and we are still holding on to a physical object, we’re still giving ourselves time to figure it out, figure out the relationship, figure out what it meant, figure out how to grieve, figure out how to hold on. And we find something significant about doing the physical let go. And so we kind of want to know for sure that we’ve done the emotional part correctly if we do the

Kathi Lipp (02:42)

Yeah.

Tenneil (02:56)

physical part correctly. We’re like looking for affirmation.

Kathi Lipp (03:01)

Okay, okay, I totally get that. I have a question for both of you. Are you guys hanger on-ers to your own stuff? We’re not not stuff you’ve been given necessarily, or are you letter goers?

Tonya Kubo (03:14)

It takes me a while. Like I am in general, my cluttery problem is not that I acquire a lot. I am not a big shopper. I just don’t know what to do with stuff once I have it. So I tend to be a keeper. So like what we have been, you we talk about this all the time. It has taken Brian and I have been married now 16 years and it’s just this year that we’re getting rid of the wedding pictures from our first marriages.

Kathi Lipp (03:25)

? yeah.

Yeah, that’s a hard one. It’s a hard one.

Tonya Kubo (03:41)

Well, and it’s back to what Tenneil said, because I’m thinking like where I keep those photos is also where all of the prom stuff is. And I don’t know if so this is the thing is this does not hit home with current teens at all because this is not how they do prom. But prom in the 90s was a whole thing of a thing. You paid your money. You got your photo album with the theme on the cover. You got your champagne flutes. Why did they give us champagne flutes? It’s not like we could drink at that age, but they did.

Kathi Lipp (03:59)

Absolutely.

Tonya Kubo (04:10)

And we got a key chain, got all these things that matched the theme. And I remember thinking it was so important to have that stuff back then. And now I look at it and I’m like, what am I supposed to do with this? Like all I can think about is we had one year where the theme was from dusk till dawn. And that’s when the Quentin Tarantino movie came out. So every time I look at it, I go, I remember how excited I was to see that movie and how horrible that movie was.

Kathi Lipp (04:36)

Okay, there we go. I love that that’s the memory that pops up for you.

Tonya Kubo (04:38)

So as, right,

why am I still keeping that stuff if that’s the memory that pops up? I’m keeping that stuff because I go, well, when I go to my high school reunion, are other people gonna have it? Are other people gonna talk about keeping it? What does it say about me and my high school years and what I think about all the people I went into prom with if I get rid of this, which is what I really want to do?

Kathi Lipp (05:04)

Yeah, ? really interesting. How about you, Tenneil? Are you a hangar oner or a letter goer?

Tenneil (05:10)

So I’m somewhere in the middle. I’ve become much better letting it go. think transitions of life. I do still have first wedding pictures also because I thought that my child would want them, but he doesn’t. So I’m really close on that one too. Tonya, have to tell you though, let go of the prom stuff. I’ve had my reunion. There was one really great thing that somebody brought from the reunion.

Tonya Kubo (05:23)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:25)

Nope, they

don’t.

Tenneil (05:38)

It was the school handbook for our very conservative parochial school. And that makes for excellent conversation. So if your key chain’s not gonna make for good conversation, let it go.

Tonya Kubo (05:51)

Fair enough.

Kathi Lipp (05:51)

Hmm

really interesting. Yeah, I want to talk about the emotional drivers that sit behind our inability to let things go so Tonya you and I have talked about this for years fear what if I need it someday or the other version of that is what if I regret letting this go and Guilt this was from somebody that was important in my life whether I’m no longer in touch with them or maybe they’ve passed on something like that

And then I think there’s a third one here, identity. Guys, again, I’m bringing up old stories, but I only have one life to live. And so I only have so many stories. But I was a sales rep for years and years and years. And I invested in these leather cases for catalogs. And this was important in my job.

We did not have a laptop to bring around. These were leather cases that we put, you know, the A &A plush and the Carolina candles and all those catalogs in. I would take them into a store and somebody would order something and I’d go home and write up the order. It feels very archaic now. I could not get rid of those leather cases for the longest time because they were expensive. And you know, the year I bought them, I bought them because I was salesperson of the year.

And that was important to me. That meant something to me. And so that was, it was an identity. I didn’t recognize it at the time, but it was an identity thing saying, you know what, because then I went home and I was homeschooling my kids and then I went through a divorce and I was working at a job that wasn’t my favorite. And I could look at those cases and say, okay, but I had it going on

like and maybe I’ll have it going on again. You know, sometimes we keep things not out of love but out of guilt, fear or the need to remember who we were. And I just think it’s so important to really recognize why are we hanging on to things that make no sense. By the way, I no longer have those leather cases. It’s probably been 20 years now. I’m good. But at the time, and I think we all have those things like that.

Tonya Kubo (07:48)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:16)

We have somebody in our life who says or maybe it’s media. You’ll regret getting rid of that You’ll regret it. So One of the things that Tonya and I have talked about a lot in our group Clutter free for life that if you love it show it so if you if you say that you love this purse But you have it in a box in your garage. I question your love

And so I wanna talk about some ways that we can display things. And one of my favorites is I have a friend, Robin Neal, who we’ve been friends for a really long time. And her father-in-law had passed away earlier the year of this story. And he was famous for his chili recipe. And so she had a butcher block inscribed.

with her father-in-law’s handwriting with the chili recipe. And there’s a great picture that went around TikTok. And I think it had something like six million views. It was crazy. It went crazy of her husband opening up this package and seeing that and what it meant to him. But it wasn’t just keeping the recipe and even just framing a recipe could have been cool, but this took it a step beyond. And when we wanna talk about the step beyond

Tonya Kubo (09:24)

wow.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:42)

We come to Tenneil Register. We’d love some ideas for things that maybe they’re not super useful day to day, but can give us some ideas of, I don’t want to get rid of it because it’s important to me. I’ve discovered I’m not keeping out of fear or guilt or false sense of identity. No, it really brings back happy memories and I want it.

Tenneil (10:05)

Yeah, I want to share a recipe idea too, because it’s always such a favorite. And that is at Christmas time, have a small tree in your kitchen and hang the recipe cards for family recipes like this all over the tree. And if you have grandma’s old utensils or something like that, you can hang it on the tree. Then the rest of the year, you can pack that down into a small little tote and you have

Kathi Lipp (10:09)

Yeah.

Tenneil (10:34)

At the time of year that you’re gathering with your family in your kitchen, you can pull out these recipes and these little utensils and do a kitchen tree. It is usually everyone’s favorite idea of how to remember grandma.

Kathi Lipp (10:46)

Okay, I want to spin off on this for just a second because I think we think if we want to put something up it has to be up all year round and I am a very seasonal girl like every spring summer fall winter I’ve got a little tote where I’m pulling things out not just the fall decor. It’s not that it’s the Native American dolls that my friend Susie gave to me that I put in the fall decor. It’s the

Tonya Kubo (10:55)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:14)

picture that my grandmother passed down to me that I have out in the spring. But I don’t have it out year round because my house would be an antique store. But it’s I love the idea of switching things out. Okay, what are some other ideas to Tenneil?

Tenneil (11:30)

Yeah, so another one is make sure you’re using the things you can use. like sometimes, you know, that’s like a vase and we’re afraid to use it because it might get broken or something like that. If like you said, if we love it, use it. But also like maybe you don’t put fresh flowers in vases. I use a lot of like sentimental items. I think you might even be able to see one on the video behind me as bookends. So like a vase from China is

Kathi Lipp (11:36)

Mm.

Yes.

Tenneil (11:59)

holding up as a book in for my actual books that I need to use throughout the day. And so incorporating those so that if it’s functional, then we’re not setting up a museum, right? And that’s what we want to avoid is having a museum of things. We want to have a home that’s been built over time that’s functional. And so I think asking yourself, how can I use it is really, really the most important question if you

Kathi Lipp (12:04)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

? I love that so much. And I think that displaying something, being surrounded by things you love is such a gift to yourself. And it shows the life you have and the hopes and dreams you’ve had. know, Tonya, do you have any ideas that you could share with us on this topic?

Tonya Kubo (12:50)

Well, mean, I second what Tenneil says. It’s like, if you can create something functional out of it, I think that’s brilliant. know, the recipe cards. I knew a woman who had her mom’s recipes all framed in the kitchen. And it was such an easy way to decorate an apartment and make an apartment feel homey. And part of it was that her mom’s handwriting in and of itself was a beautiful decor in addition to the recipes.

And I think, you know, I think we need to give ourselves permission to not be connected to the items. Like it is okay that that meant a lot to you 15 years ago, and it can have meant a lot 15 years ago and not mean as much today. And that doesn’t make you a bad person.

Kathi Lipp (13:31)

Mm hmm. Right.

Mm-hmm.

I love it. Yeah, you know, what I’ve had to discover is that having, using what I can or have it when I can’t use something, but it’s still precious to me. I was just visiting my friend Sherry, our friend Sherry, and she gave me a little framed sunflower. And that was her daughter who had passed away, her favorite flower.

Like there’s no practical use for it, but I’m not getting rid of it because I love it. And so it has yellows in it. So I put it with some blue little vases that I really like. And sometimes the vases have flowers in them and sometimes they don’t, but a little vignette is, a fun thing. And you can, you can make a vignette out of the weirdest stuff. I, I came in second place in a baby contest when, you know,

56 years ago. I’ve got the little trophy. I it means nothing to anybody But I just like having it on display because I’m like what a weird thing and I love it so, know and sometimes we don’t want to use things because We don’t want them to get broken. We don’t want them to get chipped So we keep them away, but when something feels too precious to use or display I think we have to ask ourselves. Am I protecting it or

Tonya Kubo (14:44)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (15:00)

Is it protecting me from dealing with letting it go? Like, am I too afraid to unpack those emotions? And maybe you can’t unpack the emotions right now, but it’s okay. We’re gonna take a quick commercial break and then we’re gonna come back and we’re gonna talk about Tenneil’s favorite subject, repurposing. Okay, so we’re gonna, we’ll be right back. Okay, we are back with Tonya and Tenneil. Tenneil, how do you?

I want you to talk about more ideas for repurposing. Give us some more ideas because you’re such a genius at this. And I want you to give us your weirdest and wackiest ideas.

Tenneil (15:39)

Oh boy. Well, I was going to start with the plain ones, Kathi, , but we’ll start with the plain ones. So your plain ones is right, like a teacup. If you don’t drink tea from it, but it’s grandma’s teacup, can it hold your rings? Can it hold soap? Right? And even like your little sunflower picture, is it something that should be out all the time or should it come out just during the month of May that you get out the tea

Kathi Lipp (15:44)

Go f- start there and then build our way up, yes.

you

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tenneil (16:09)

for the soap, know, like that

Kathi Lipp (16:10)

Yeah.

Tenneil (16:10)

kind of thing, so that you’re going through a process. Wackier ideas is like the things you can hang on the wall. So when you were talking about your leather suitcases, I actually have a bag from my corporate days too that I still love, but I don’t carry it. So it hangs on the coat rack by my front door for like your everyday clutter that you need to hide in a hurry. And it’s just like a hiding place, right? It looks like a bag I carry in and out, but I actually…

don’t, right? And so, grandpa’s, you know, hand rake, if grandpa was a gardener, right, hang that on the wall and use that to hang your necklaces off next to your closet or hang the dog leash on next to the door where you head out, just to turn the object upside down, inside out, spin it round and round until you can find some other form.

Kathi Lipp (16:40)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

?

? I need to be thinking about this. Okay, so I’m gonna throw a couple objects at you. This is our game show. And I want you to tell me, okay, so not only do I have one spoon that is precious to me, I have two. One that we found buried on the property here, and it’s from a company called Rogers Brothers.

and we looked it up, it’s from the 1920s. And then I have one of my grandmother’s serving spoons. Like, what do I do with those?

Tenneil (17:41)

Well, I mean, first of all, are they usable? Like, can you stir your coffee with it? The rogers spoon?

Kathi Lipp (17:46)

just that

they’re giant and I’m worried would I get poisoning from them but maybe that could use them yeah yeah I would need to figure that out yes

Tonya Kubo (17:52)

I was gonna say, this lead poisoning? I don’t know.

Tenneil (17:58)

So a big spoon, one of the ideas we’ve done in the store and people usually love because they usually have one like an old spoon or ladle or something. If you’re able to hang it on the wall and it makes a cup, you can put like a little plant or succulent or something like that. Or you could have your kitchen keys, your keys or whatever, if you need it to be functional.

Kathi Lipp (18:09)

Mm-hmm.

I love that idea. And I love the idea what you were talking about the rake where you could put a dog leash or something like that. I love that idea. Okay, I’m trying to think. I have lots of cards that people have sent me and I get rid of most of them. But what’s an idea for the ones that you want to keep?

Tenneil (18:39)

Yeah, this one’s not overly creative, but it looks a little better than a bulletin board. I have a screen in my office. It’s like a wood frame that’s a screen. It’s industrial off the farm. And I have clothes pins on it where I can rotate out cards or inspirational sayings. I’ve got a couple of pictures of my grandparents. Just my own kind of teenager pin board in my office. But to keep up with looking bulletin board, it’s actually like an industrial primitive screen.

Kathi Lipp (18:43)

I’ll take it.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Tenneil (19:09)

you could do it with an old window screen too.

Kathi Lipp (19:09)

?

okay, I love that. Tonya, I’m gonna ask you for one in just a second. But, Tenneil, another thing I would be interesting to get some ideas from, if you have somebody in your family, they wore a uniform, you know, like I’m thinking like, you know, firefighter, police officer, they have a badge, they have a hat, like, what are your ideas for that?

Tenneil (19:34)

Yeah, so some people go full out, right? Like shadow box on the wall, it’s that important. You mentioned last time we were talking about kids, like sometimes it works to get it out seasonally, you know, for that moment of memorial. But I think it’s kind of choosing an item from it, right? The hat, can it be worked into your mantle decor, that kind of thing? Or like I think of a fireman’s jacket. I could see some semblance to leaving that on your coat rack next to the door.

Kathi Lipp (19:46)

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Right.

Tenneil (20:04)

just there as a statement kind of thing.

Kathi Lipp (20:07)

Yeah,

and guys don’t be afraid to look at something like Etsy if you’re not the crafty person because they can take grandma’s china that was broken and turn that into a necklace or something along those lines Tonya jump in here play the game. What’s something that you would throw it to Tenneil?

Tonya Kubo (20:26)

Something that I would throw at Tenneil, baby teeth.

Tenneil (20:29)

yeah.

Okay. I’m going to say first of all that I’m pro getting rid of the baby teeth. And I believe there should be a tradition when the truth comes out about the tooth fairy that we give those babies back and the kid can decide like, we want to bury them or what do we want to do?

one for you all that is still a thing in our house and that is a first pacifier. I think at 17 my kids still finds a little joy from knowing it’s in the top drawer of my jewelry.

Kathi Lipp (21:07)

Oh my gosh. You guys, anything that somebody has sucked on? I don’t know. I don’t know.

Tonya Kubo (21:15)

I didn’t

have a pacifier, my children never had pacifiers, so I have no pacifiers in my home.

Kathi Lipp (21:19)

? my-

Okay, we went to the hospital in the middle of the night to get Justin his pacifier that he was going to die without apparently. Like, because he didn’t know the difference between, you know, not having a pacifier and me dumping him off at the orphanage. Like they were on the same plane. Okay. Yeah, I love the idea of like,

Tonya Kubo (21:32)

?

Mm-hmm.

Tenneil (21:41)

Thank

Kathi Lipp (21:48)

burying the teeth for the tooth fairy to recycle or something. I love that idea. Guys, I love this so much because our memories shouldn’t live in an attic, they should be in our lives. They should be incorporated into our lives. And Tenneil is so good at this. Tenneil, would love, you you said at the store, what people may not know is you own a beautiful store. What’s it called?

Tenneil (21:52)

Right?

Yeah, R7 reclaimed and it’s a vintage barn and so we specialize in how to recycle and, you know, reclaim the unexpected.

Kathi Lipp (22:17)

Yeah.

Yeah, okay at some point what I’m gonna do if you’re a listener and you’re like I have this weird item that I would like to know how to incorporate I’m gonna book another show and what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna bring these ladies back and We’re gonna come up with those weird items. I’m gonna read them off. I’m not gonna give to Tenneil any prep Because she is so creative. She is seen and done everything No

Tonya Kubo (22:45)

Ooh.

Tenneil (22:49)

Are you gonna save me at all?

Tonya Kubo (22:53)

I will prep, I will do homework for you, Tenneil, because I’m the person who threw baby teeth at you, okay?

Kathi Lipp (22:59)

Yeah

my goodness, I love this so much. Okay, guys, just remember, you deserve to enjoy your sentimental items, not be overwhelmed by them. Okay, thank you ladies so much for being here. Guys, we’re gonna be back in just a moment with my new favorite segment, Stuff That Has Earned A Place In My House. We will be right back.

PART 2

Kathi Lipp (00:00)

Well, welcome back to ClutterFree Academy. ?

Today in our third segment is another episode of things that have earned a place in my clutter free home. And I’ve got my friend, Tenneil Register. Tenneil’s part of my team, but also my friend. And if you need your house redecorated, just invite her over and let her sit amongst your house and she will not be able to help herself. That’s just the kind, but she’ll only do it with your permission. Hey Tenneil.

Tenneil (00:27)

Yeah.

such

an accurate version of me. I’ll be switching, but I’ll wait for permission.

Kathi Lipp (00:36)

Well

You were you were not rooted at all. I’m like, please please please because here’s the thing I think other people can sometimes see things that you know, you just live with all the time, right? And you think you don’t think about things being in a different way and we were literally moving dressers upstairs from downstairs and You know when I bought this house man, you know things were where they were and I changed a ton of stuff

but some of the stuff I left just where it was because I thought it was cute. But then your house moves and things like that and you just have to figure out new solutions. And that’s one of the things we’re gonna talk about today is figuring out new solutions. there’s very little that I get to influence Tenneil about, but I influenced you and that makes me very happy. And it was so funny. I’ll tell you this Tenneil and then we’ll actually talk about the item.

You know Roger and I were going to a church and we have since left this church so I’m not telling any tales out of school but ? one of the pastors did a whole sermon on like the worst thing that your child could grow up to be is an influencer and I’m like well, okay, first of all, thanks ? But I also think isn’t that what everybody does? We’re trying if you’re a politician, you’re an influencer if you’re on TV, you’re an

Like we’re all influenced and I want to influence people one to not buy things that they don’t need but two if something works for me I want to share about it because it’s made my life better, right?

Tenneil (02:16)

Yes, and for most of us, at least listening to this podcast in America, we’re probably gonna spend our money on something. So if it’s something that makes your life easier and makes you happy, I love when people share what’s working for them. It just gives me new ideas.

Kathi Lipp (02:29)

Right. And that’s the thing. I don’t want to spend my money on stuff that doesn’t work. And so, so let me tell you how I influenced Tenneil. Now, some of you have listened to the podcast where I was talking about organizing your pots and pans and ? Tenneil I, the day that podcast came out, she’s like, I’m getting that pan organizer. And okay, so I’m going to tell you my experience with it. then

Tenneil (02:34)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (02:55)

I want to hear yours. And I don’t know what her experience is. I just told her, Hey, we’re recording this episode. I’ll find out if you liked it or not. But I’m going to tell you what my experience was. my, have a corner cabinet in the kitchen and pots and pans. They were such a pain that my husband who everybody I know, you know, I, everybody knows I, I, I don’t worship him. only worship God, but

Tenneil (03:24)

Admire.

Kathi Lipp (03:25)

I admire greatly, but it got to the point where he was setting out to dry the pots and pans on a pretty regular basis because there’s such a pain in the rear to put away. And so he also, he still does this with our, our, ? not Tupperware. I can you tell I’m a child of the eighties. I call it Tupperware, but, yeah, he doesn’t like that either, but that’s very easy to put away. So I bought,

this it’s called ? Muddella eight tier heavy duty adjustable pan organizing rack for kitchen cabinet storage and organization. So I mean, that is a mouthful. But what it does is it’s so you don’t put your pans or your pots inside of each other. They’re each on their own level. And I have to say the amount of people who now put away their pots and pans in my household.

or even people who are visiting ? without being harangued has gone up 100%. Including me, by the way, including me, because I used to avoid it too. Okay, so now I don’t know, this is honest reaction, not that we’re gonna ever lie to you guys, but ? Tenneil, what is your unbiased reaction about this pot and pan organizer?

Tenneil (04:49)

I love it. So I was so excited because our pot in pan one, I’m like the only one who can do it correctly, right?

Kathi Lipp (04:55)

Yes,

nobody can do it like mom does it.

Tenneil (05:00)

And similarly, we tend to leave them out like on the stove kind of ready to reuse because it’s irritating and we cook a lot. So I was super excited about this pot and pan holder and I ordered it and it was super late at night when it was delivered from Amazon. Everyone was like, who’s at the door? And so I start putting it together. So it was a whole family activity of watching me, you know, put this together. Me explaining that I’d ordered it off the podcast. I just, I don’t usually do that kind of

Kathi Lipp (05:04)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tenneil (05:29)

And so they were super intrigued. The guys in my house were really impressed with the design. And I got down on the floor to put it in my cabinet and it didn’t fit because I didn’t measure first. And I was like so bummed. But I was like, this thing though, it makes sense. This thing makes sense. And so I scooted my little rear over to the next cabinet, to my corner cabinet, where I also have like

Kathi Lipp (05:30)

Yeah, yeah.

Ooh!

? no.

Yes.

Yeah.

Tenneil (05:57)

piles of things, but they’re a little bit different. They’re like containers that I take cookies in, deviled eggs, tray, strainers stuff like that. And it worked brilliantly in there to stack all that stuff up and each have its own, it’s almost like a slot, its own shelf, right? And I ordered a second one to do under there. And then ? we’re still gonna order another one. We can make it fit our pan cabinet, but our pan cabinet has a

Kathi Lipp (05:58)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

Yes, right.

Tenneil (06:26)

like a top shelf in it, half shelf.

Kathi Lipp (06:29)

That’s mine does too. Yes.

Tenneil (06:30)

And so you

need to remove that for this to really do its job, which is okay. I would prefer it be gone in this baby work.

Kathi Lipp (06:38)

Yes.

So for some reason, this works with my half shelf. It just, mean, yeah, it’s a little, it loses a little space. But what I’ve done is I’ve put my turkey roasting pan behind that, which I only need to get to once a year. And I only need to get to it when my 30 year olds are in the house and one of them can do the crawling. So I’m fine with that. So yeah. So, ? okay. I, I’ve never given, you know, a

a ranking on this portion of the podcast. But for me, this is a 10 out of 10. It solves a huge problem. It isn’t crazy expensive. It’s not cheap, but I also don’t want cheap because I want this to last for a long time. It’s $31 and ? I just got it off of Amazon. We will put the link in the notes ? and you don’t have to give it a 10 out of 10, but what is your ranking for it?

Tenneil (07:32)

Yeah, for sure for what it did for me, I would give it a 9 out of 10 for the space that it fixed for me and I’d give it a 10 out of 10 if it measured correctly, but that’s on me, not on the product, right?

Kathi Lipp (07:37)

Yeah.

Okay,

but you know what this is really good to know that you should take that extra three minutes and Measure that space and guys, you know, I’ve talked about how I’ve ordered and I’ll put a link to these two I’ve ordered ? Those a dozen of the tiny measuring tape. So I have one in every room of the house because I That saves me a trip into town to return something

Tenneil (07:49)

Yeah!

Kathi Lipp (08:08)

And yeah, so many times I wish it worked better on clothes because like I still end up returning clothes because I don’t know what size I am anymore. But for things in your house, it’s always good to just take that extra second to measure. I bet nine times out of 10 Tenneil, you can eyeball stuff. I bet you.

Tenneil (08:29)

Yeah,

and when it comes to like furniture and other spaces, I pretty well have nailed that and I measure a lot of stuff. I just didn’t think through. I was so excited about it on the podcast. So, yeah.

Kathi Lipp (08:33)

Go.

No, of course not. Yeah, exactly.

Okay, friends. So this is called the Mudella eight tier heavy duty adjustable pan organizer rack for kitchen cabinet storage and organization. And so ? I, like I said, love this thing. If you are struggling with what to do with your pots and pans, this is worth trying. As you know, Amazon, you can always return things.

But yeah, this works for us. And I noticed like it’s saying free delivery today, 5 to 10 PM. Yeah, and here’s the thing guys, it doesn’t do free delivery to my house. It does free delivery to my mom’s house. But if I really needed it, we could do it. So I’ve ordered the second one.

Tenneil (09:19)

No.

Kathi Lipp (09:26)

And yeah, we’re gonna be so organized. It’s gonna make cooking a dream. I’m so excited. Tenneil thanks for sharing my love of pot and pan organization. It makes me super happy.

Tenneil (09:37)

Yes, it’s the little things.

Kathi Lipp (09:39)

It’s the little things, that’s true. Anytime you can remove an obstacle from something you have to do is huge. Well friends, you have been listening to ClutterFree Academy, I’m Kathi Lipp, now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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#667 – Clutter Free Finances: Taking Control of Subscriptions

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On this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep into the world of subscription services and the hidden costs they can incur over time. As many of us fall into the habit of acquiring more subscriptions than we need, our finances begin to clutter much like our living spaces. Kathi and Tonya share personal stories on saving thousands of dollars by auditing their monthly subscriptions, canceling those that went unused, and exploring alternative solutions. They’ll also introduce you to the idea of Low by July, a practical exercise in mindful spending. This episode is brimming with relatable anecdotes, actionable tips, and a call to reclaim the financial freedom many of us don’t realize we’ve lost.

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group (the Kindest Corner of the internet!)
Clutter Free For Life

FYI: Some product links may be affiliate links. If you buy, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support!

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Meet Our Co-Host

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And we are talking money today. We are talking money, money, money. And I am here talking money with my friend Tonya Kubo, who, you know, we just have so much of it. We don’t know what to do with it. That’s the problem, right Tonya? Yes.

Tonya Kubo (00:33)

Right, right. That money

tree in the backyard is like worse than a lemon tree.

Kathi Lipp (00:37)

It’s been so…

Now, okay, did watch, speaking of trees, I watched a video last night of somebody talking about, he’s in construction and somebody, they were working on their house and they said, ? you should probably tell your workers not to eat the apples off of that tree. And he said, my goodness, I’m so sorry.

Normally when we go and work on people’s houses, they have no problem with it. And she said, no, it’s no problem. It’s just that those have not been processed. And he said, well, what do you mean? She says, well, those are like backyard apples, but they’re not store apples. he’s like, so tell me what’s wrong with them? And well, they haven’t been processed like as if they were going through a store and we just don’t want any of your workers to get sick.

And so she honestly thought that the apples at the store were a different kind of apple, like a different variety than the one. And he’s like, well, why would you have an apple tree? And she says, it just looks pretty. And first of all, I’ve had apple trees before. Those are the messiest trees in the world if you’re not constantly eating them. OK, so that was a tangent that we didn’t need to go on. But you know,

Tonya Kubo (01:42)

Hmm.

They are super.

Kathi Lipp (02:04)

Because apple tree, well, don’t we all wish that we had an apple tree in our backyard now because we know some prices are gonna be going up here pretty soon if they haven’t already gone up for you. And we had a challenge in our Clutter Free for Life, which is our paid group. this was an impromptu challenge, but it was based on something I’ve been working on, I would say for the past five months. And.

Tonya Kubo (02:10)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:31)

I just realized it’s very easy for me. We have become the this is the decade of the subscription. I know there were subscriptions before. I know there will be subscriptions in the 2030s, but this is where people said you can’t start a business unless it’s subscription based. Maybe it’s been longer than this, but this is where like I can. I have noticed that subscriptions keep.

Tonya Kubo (02:41)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:02)

I anything I want to buy they want it. I was trying to buy socks the other day. They wanted me to buy a subscription to socks. I’m like, yeah, I’m not doing that. Like I’m not changing out my feet. I don’t wear that many socks. It’s nutso we want to be subscribed to our food. We want to be subscribed to delivery. We to be subscribed to our television. And that was not all the unnecessary expenses in my budget, but it was a lot of them.

Tonya Kubo (03:09)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:32)

And I don’t know about other people who are listening, but I do feel like I have some insight after doing this experiment in Clutter Free for Life. Because I challenge people, just for the moment, could you save $1,000 a year just by going through your budget and canceling subscriptions, canceling things that are coming up that you are no longer using? And while I feel like I crushed this,

You crushed it like a tin can. And I was able to eliminate about $2,500 worth of reoccurring expenses for the year of our Lord 2025. And some of it was through canceling things, some of it was renegotiate. There were so many different varieties. But Tonya, how much did you end up cutting?

Tonya Kubo (04:14)

Mm-hmm.

So by the 28th of February, we actually landed at just shy of 5,000. I think it’s like 4,994 or something or other. Like ridiculousness.

Kathi Lipp (04:37)

It’s crazy.

Oh my gosh, did you so, when I find

$6 more and just, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (04:46)

Well, was Brian and I was like, what if I cancel this? He’s like, Tonya doesn’t count if you cancel it this month and then live to regret it and restart it next month.

Kathi Lipp (04:54)

Right, right. Well, okay.

You know what? This may be my first time that I ever disagree with Brian Kubo because we all know that I’m a Brian Kubo fan. But if you cancel something to see if you can live without it and you realize, yeah, no, this is really important to me. I think that’s a victory, but I understand his premise. So I don’t disagree with him, but I do think that there

Tonya Kubo (05:10)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (05:23)

there is value in saying, I’m gonna pull back, nope, I’ve decided this is worth the $12 a month. So I wanna get into this because I think it’s really, I think it’s a great challenge to see, could you eliminate $1,000 of reoccurring expenses in your year? And you think, well, $1,000 over an entire year doesn’t feel like very much, but.

Tonya Kubo (05:26)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:51)

Could you use an extra $80 a month? I know I can. And maybe if you haven’t been paying attention to your budget, maybe you could eliminate $2,000. It’s not that you’re not paying attention, but at one point in your life, at least for me, at one point in my life, Brit Box was very important to me. And then it became not so important to me. At one point in my life, I was helping, I bought a subscription for my kids.

Tonya Kubo (06:03)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:20)

that

was very important to them. Well, they don’t use it anymore. So why am I paying for it? So these are some things. why, I really believe that clutter and finances go together. Okay, so tell me what you think about that because it’s important to me.

Tonya Kubo (06:24)

Right. Right.

they totally do. Totally do.

Well, feel

like clutter and finances go together for a few things, right? So we know that we cluttery people really struggle with overwhelm, we struggle with decision fatigue. you you sign up, subscriptions are the bane of our existence, because you sign up and then they’re just like out of sight, out of mind. And then you, you know, in some cases, and this was something that Brian had figured out a few months ago,

Kathi Lipp (06:53)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (07:10)

you’re subscribed to the same thing in three different ways. So that sort of stuff though, like the cluttery person’s overwhelming decision fatigue, I think leads to a lot of overspending, duplicate spending, also just unintentional spending. Like if you knew that was coming out of your account every single month, you would have canceled it long time ago, right? So there’s that piece, but then there’s the other piece where it just, I think it just weighs on our mind. I mean,

Kathi Lipp (07:27)

Great.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (07:39)

Ten charges coming out of your account every month are ten different things to keep track of.

Kathi Lipp (07:46)

It’s so true. this is why it’s so much like clutter, because it’s very easy to mindlessly have things come into the house and then they accumulate. You have to take care of them. instead of being intentional about what comes in, it’s very easy. Subscriptions are just habits that are unexamined habits sometimes.

Tonya Kubo (07:52)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (08:14)

I know, you know, when I was in my first marriage, when I first got married and we were paying bills, you you’d sit down with your checkbook and you had your stack of envelopes and you had your stamps. And I think it was 13 cents at one point. I mean, like, you know, we’re talking back in the olden days and you knew every dollar that was going out of your account. That’s just not the case anymore.

Tonya Kubo (08:23)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (08:40)

And

so it’s very easy to let those things build up without doing it. So Tonya, I told people was go through your bank account and see, you what are those reoccurring charges? What are those things that are coming out that maybe you’re not paying attention to? But you took it to a whole new level because you realize they’re getting money from us in ways that we may not even be aware of.

Tonya Kubo (08:50)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

yeah. Okay. So I feel like here’s what’s really important is to understand that I have my own business. So part of why I could save almost $5,000 a year is because I did this in my business account in addition to in my personal account. But what we’re, it’s all real money. It affects how much I get to pay myself. Right? So that, that counts too. But to your point, you know, on my business side, there’s only like

Kathi Lipp (09:17)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Witcher is all real money, by the way. It’s all real mo- Yeah.

Exactly. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (09:40)

one way things come in or two ways, right? I either use my business debit card or I use PayPal. That’s it. That’s how I get charged on things. But I was not prepared for this, Kathi, but you’re right. I figured it out really fast. On the personal side, there are the bank account charges, right? The things that use your debit card. But then if you have credit cards, there’s the things that you put on a credit card and forgot you put on the credit card.

Kathi Lipp (09:47)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (10:08)

And

if you don’t max out your credit cards, how would you really pay any attention? It’s like if your credit cards are always at zero, you’ll notice. And if your credit cards are always maxed out, you’ll notice. But if it’s anywhere in between, you wouldn’t. But then what we also discovered was PayPal subscriptions. So I had subscriptions hiding out in PayPal that I had no other record of that had to be canceled in PayPal, couldn’t be canceled anyplace else.

Kathi Lipp (10:16)

Mm-hmm.

Right. Hmm. Okay, yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah. Right.

Tonya Kubo (10:36)

which then led us on the trail of Google Pay or Apple Pay. Sometimes you have subscriptions directly through those. anybody who has done any of those, like if you do a lot of online shopping, right, you’ll notice that some, there’s shop accounts and they collect, they’re the ones who are facilitating your subscription service. There’s links.

Kathi Lipp (10:45)

Mm.

Guess.

my goodness.

Tonya Kubo (11:04)

So Kathi, I found subscriptions hiding in like six different locations just on my personal site.

Kathi Lipp (11:12)

It’s insane, right?

Tonya Kubo (11:13)

Right. And part of how I noticed was a couple hit that I wasn’t expecting. So the PayPal thing was I had an Evernote subscription. I started using Evernote in 2016 when my mom died. I’m like, no, no, it would have been 2015. So when my mom died, I needed a way for us to have all the information associated with her death and I needed to be able to access it at my computer.

Kathi Lipp (11:21)

Mm-hmm.

Mm, right.

Okay.

Tonya Kubo (11:41)

or on my phone and I needed Brian to be able to access it. And Evernote at that time was the easiest way to do that. So did you just hear me say my mom died in 2015? Yeah, so I haven’t actually accessed Evernote for anything else since then. And yet I got this notification from PayPal that they had processed a charge. And I’m thinking like, I don’t have anything coming out of PayPal. And it’s $120. And I go and look.

Kathi Lipp (11:47)

Mm-hmm.

Right? Ten years ago?

Tonya Kubo (12:11)

And it’s like, I’m still paying for Evernote?

Kathi Lipp (12:16)

Wow.

Tonya Kubo (12:17)

Why would I think about it? I haven’t touched it in years. But so that’s a charge that got canceled.

Kathi Lipp (12:20)

Right. That’s insane.

Yeah. it’s heartbreaking. It’s heartbreaking. And you think about the money that has been wasted. But here’s we’re going to reframe it. The money that will no longer be coming out of your account. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:28)

Mm-hmm.

Exactly. Exactly.

And you know what? I know that we have a lot more to talk about on the savings front, but we should probably take a break, pay some bills, and then we’ll come right back.

Kathi Lipp (12:43)

Yeah. Okay. Yep.

Tonya Kubo (12:51)

And we’re back and we are talking about how we are saving. So Kathi, I just shared how I cut expenses that I kind of didn’t even realize I was spending for maybe a decade or so. How about you?

Kathi Lipp (12:52)

Okay.

You know, so a lot of things I did I realized a lot of my things were hidden inside of Amazon So, you know like Brit box and thing Acorn TV, you know things that you’re like, I’m totally into this show Well, I’m into that show and then I never use it again. So that was a problem and I I had to

Tonya Kubo (13:14)

Mmm.

You

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:34)

I had to reframe some of my thinking from, know, when it’s clutter, it’s like, do I need this to with subscriptions? Do I use this? Not will I use this? Because and you know, they they really play with our mentality saying, well, if you cancel it now, if you resubscribe later, it’s going to be more expensive.

Tonya Kubo (13:43)

Mm-hmm.

was hoping you

would address this because I think that holds us, Cluttery people in bondage, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (13:59)

It’s so true because but I I had to think about okay, but if I cancel it and I resubscribe a year later That will cover me forever. That will cover me forever so and I am not paying for anything that I’m not using and so one of the things that I did was what are the alternatives so One thing that ended up being so interesting

Tonya Kubo (14:18)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:28)

was I was looking over all my subscriptions. This is something that’s really interesting. The subscriptions you actually use, are there other benefits that come with that subscription? So one of them for us was we were paying for Paramount Plus, which is like CBS. Because we use it all the time. Well, come to find out, our Walmart subscription had free Paramount Plus.

Tonya Kubo (14:37)

Mm-hmm.

includes it.

Kathi Lipp (14:57)

It included the one with the commercials, which Roger, every time we watch commercials says, we should pay for the, and I’m like, no, stop that, stop. You can sit through a commercial. Go to the bathroom, go put some more ice in your drink. that’s right, and I’ll scream, it’s coming back on! But what are the alternatives?

Tonya Kubo (15:05)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Go do what we did in the 80s, Roger.

Kathi Lipp (15:23)

we have become very impatient and I blame social media and I know you love social media, but I’m gonna blame social media here for something because it used to be a movie would come out and yeah, you talk about it with your friends, but you could see it. You could wait six months until it was out on VHS or on disc or whatever like that. But social media makes you feel like you are missing the most important thing in the world if you’re not at Wicked on opening night.

You know, it comes to find out you will live. You probably will live. Now there are things that will be exciting for you and you’ll want to go see, but you know what? It’s okay if you don’t do that. What are some alternatives? Can I wait to read that fiction book until it’s available at my library? Because there I can get it for free. What free apps could I use? Do I really need another subscription?

Tonya Kubo (15:58)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:22)

Or should I go investigate what’s actually on YouTube? Because there’s a lot of stuff on YouTube. Tubi, T-U-B-I, is a free streaming service. And if you’re like, yeah, but it doesn’t have this thing that I want to watch. One of the things that we are doing is we canceled our Apple subscription. We canceled a few other subscriptions, and we’re using the free versions, or we’re not using anything. But I will go back and subscribe.

Tonya Kubo (16:27)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:50)

You maybe every six months for a month and I’ll watch on Apple the morning show and Severance and like, you know, all the things I’ve been waiting for is going to be an awesome month. But, you know, for right now I can watch things on Paramount Plus. We do have Max, which has a lot of great shows. So we’re using that. But when it comes time for me to go to Apple, I’ll cancel my Max subscription for three to nine months.

Tonya Kubo (16:57)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:20)

and

wait till the things that I wanna watch are on there and it’s okay. I probably will not die. So I wanna let people know that every July we do something great in our Clutter Free Academy group and we do a Low by July. And so can you give us a little glimpse into what we do in our free group in the Low by July?

Tonya Kubo (17:24)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so Low By July is simply about paying attention to your spending. So it’s not a spending freeze. It’s not, my gosh, I can’t drive across town because I’m not allowed to fill up my gas tank. It’s simply trying to minimize the impulse purchases we make, right? So it’s really looking at, you know, do I need to go to Starbucks every day?

Kathi Lipp (18:05)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (18:17)

Do I need to go to Starbucks once a week? Are there alternatives that maybe I want to explore? And if ultimately you say, get so much joy out of going to Starbucks once a week compared to making coffee at home, then hey, that’s okay. So it’s really just figuring out how can you be more intentional with your spending and really focus on what makes sense for you and your family. And we do it in the free group because we know that the biggest…

Kathi Lipp (18:30)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (18:45)

contributor to clutter is what we bring in the house. So if we can minimize what comes in the house, then our in-home decluttering efforts have a greater impact.

Kathi Lipp (18:48)

Mm-hmm. Great.

Yeah, it’s so easy to just do the same things out of habit You know, this is gonna sound ridiculous But I have been buying too much asparagus. Let me just be honest. Let me let me confess here There has been too much asparagus buying in my life. I’ve been buying the Costco size asparagus it’s just me and Roger and while we enjoy asparagus we don’t enjoy it that much and

Tonya Kubo (19:16)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:24)

What I’ve also come to notice in my patterns is we tend to eat a ton of asparagus when we’re grilling. But we’re not grilling right now because it’s March. And so to just take a step back and look at some habits that maybe you have that has been causing you to spend money. And so Tonya today, I’m gonna throw away some asparagus and I’m gonna do it guilt free. But what I’m not gonna do is put it

Tonya Kubo (19:31)

Hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:53)

back on my Costco shopping list, I’m gonna put it back on there with a little parentheses that says May, because Mother’s Day is when we can pretty much guarantee we’re not gonna get more snow. And so this is the same thing. I’m gonna ask you to look at your habits. so a couple of things I wanna encourage you to do. Go over to the Facebook group, which is Clutterfree Academy, Kathi Lipps Clutterfree Academy.

Tonya Kubo (19:55)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:24)

and join us. So when July comes, you’ll know when we do our low by July, you’ll be you’ll already be a part of the group. You’ll already know. But I also want you to do something else. I would love this is my challenge to the people who are listening. Do a quick audit. What subscriptions or services are you paying for but not using? And we had somebody in our paid group, Clutter Free for Life, who said, I’m not doing this.

Tonya Kubo (20:41)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:53)

I’m not doing it because I grew up without a lot of money and I don’t want to be told what I can and cannot do and I want to enjoy these little luxuries in my life. Can I tell you that’s the exact opposite? I don’t want you, I don’t want you canceling things that bring you joy. I think many of us could eliminate a thousand dollars just by getting rid of the things that we are literally not using.

Tonya Kubo (21:11)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:24)

Or the next level is maybe we’re using it sometimes, but it’s not worth the amount of money we’re paying for it in proportion to the joy that we’re getting from it. And that’s what I want you to think about. if you’re willing to take the challenge, what I would encourage you to do is get into, just keep a little Excel spreadsheet or even on a notepad and go through your bank statement.

Tonya Kubo (21:36)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:53)

and figure out what those charges are because they do a really good job of calling them different things so you don’t know what you’re actually being charged for. So one of things I would encourage you to do is just take that name and put it into Google if you can, you know, if it’s, you know, Starbusters. Okay, what’s Starbusters? Is that a Starbucks, you know, sign off? Is it Starlink? I don’t know.

Tonya Kubo (22:15)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (22:22)

but find out what it is. Somebody else will have Googled that and they can tell you what you’re paying for. And get rid of the things that are not actively improving your life. I wonder if many of our people could be saving 200, 500, $1,000 a year. Guys, so do the quick audit, get rid of some of those big ticket items. Next time, what we’re gonna be talking about,

Tonya Kubo (22:29)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (22:51)

we’re gonna talk to Tonya about how she renegotiated some of her bills. And I did one too. Let me just tell you, my savings were less than yours, but they all count. then cutting down on some of those reoccurring charges that are not bringing joy to your life. This was a great episode. Thank you so much, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (22:55)

? yes I did do that.

Hahaha

? thank you for having me. This was great.

Kathi Lipp (23:16)

Okay, well.

Tonya Kubo (23:19)

And I think we are about at time, Kathi, but I want to say that I really hope that everybody listening takes that next step to do a quick audit. You are going to be amazed. And please make it judgment free. Don’t be like me. Don’t be all sad and feel like you have to go to confession in order to talk about the Evernote subscription that you had for a decade and you didn’t know about. Just judgment free, shame free. Just do that audit and see what you find.

Kathi Lipp (23:32)

Yeah, yeah, right.

You

Tonya Kubo (23:46)

And we will see you next time when we talk about those big ticket savings. So you have been listening to ClutterFree Academy. Now go create the ClutterFree life you have always wanted to live.

#683 – Declutter Your Bathroom Sink Space (Even With Zero Storage!)

Aug 19, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast, tips and ideas

Tired of opening your bathroom cabinets only to find chaos staring back at you? You're not alone. In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi teams up with decluttering expert Tonya Kubo to tackle one of the most frustrating spaces in many homes: the bathroom sink...

#682 – Back-to-School Prep: Tips for a Smooth Transition

Aug 12, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Parenting, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by Tonya Kubo to tackle the often chaotic back-to-school season. They explore practical strategies to help families organize their homes and lives for a smoother transition into the school year such as ...

#681 – Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

Aug 5, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and the creative genius, Tenille Register, as they explore the journey of embracing space over stuff to live a clutter-free life. In this episode, you'll discover Practical strategies for decluttering with purpose. How choosing space can lead to a...

#660 – Jesus Doesn’t Care About Your Messy House

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Mar 11, 2025 | Clutter Free, Home, Mental Load, Podcast, Shame | 0 comments

#660 – Jesus Doesn’t Care About Your Messy House

Listen Now

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp welcomes author Dana K. White for their first-ever conversation about the intersection of faith and decluttering.

Dana shares her personal journey from anonymous blogger to bestselling author, revealing how she discovered that creative, successful women often struggle the most with clutter. Together, they explore why shame is so deeply connected to our messy spaces and how understanding that “Jesus doesn’t care about your messy house” can be the key to making real progress.

If you’ve ever felt that your cluttered home somehow makes you a spiritual failure, this episode offers liberating insights. Dana debunks common misconceptions about biblical references to order and cleanliness, including a fresh perspective on the Proverbs 31 woman.

Listeners will discover:

Why traditional organizing advice often fails creative minds

How removing shame is the first step to making actual progress

Dana’s practical decluttering question: “If I needed this item, where would I look for it first?”

The freedom that comes from embracing the reality of your space

Whether you’re just starting your decluttering journey or have been struggling for years, this conversation offers both spiritual encouragement and practical strategies to help you create a functional home without shame.

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As mentioned by Kathi:

Dana K. White’s website – https://danakwhite.com/

Dana’s new book, Jesus Doesn’t Care About Your Messy House – https://www.aslobcomesclean.com/jesus/

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

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Meet Our Guest

Dana K White

Dana K. White is a Wall Street Journal bestselling author, speaker, and creator of the No Mess Decluttering Process. Through her podcast, YouTube channel, and three published books, she shares practical decluttering and organizing strategies that work for real people who don’t naturally love to clean. As the founder of DeclutteringCoaches.com, she now trains and certifies others in her unique approach to home management.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:19.694)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. Okay, you guys, you refer to her in so many emails to me, you quote her, you, I think you want me to be her, but you know what? I’ve got the next best thing. She is here on the podcast.

And this is our first time meeting, so I’m so glad we’re doing it with all of my friends listening. You guys, it is Dana K. White. Dana, welcome to Clutterfree Academy.

Dana K White (00:56.509)

Thank you so much for having me on. I have been hearing for years, you’ve got to meet Kathi. Like you just have to and I’m like, okay. So I’m excited that we’re getting to meet finally.

Kathi Lipp (01:01.518)

Well, you know, I have also heard that, but let me just tell you where I’ve encountered you the most when I’m going to Amazon to see how my books are doing and who’s outselling me. And it’s always you. Not that I’m bitter or anything, but you know what? Here’s what I love. The message about decluttering and about Jesus is getting out there. So if it’s you, I will cheer you on because now I’ve discovered you’re really nice. So, okay. Instead of

Dana K White (01:12.999)

Okay.

Dana K White (01:19.559)

Sorry.

Dana K White (01:28.475)

Yeah. Yeah.

Dana K White (01:35.365)

And I’m funny.

Kathi Lipp (01:36.43)

And you’re funny, I love a funny queen. I love this so much. Okay, we have so much to get into and I know we’re gonna get sidetracked. So I’m just gonna dive in. And by the way guys, if you’re one of the three people who doesn’t know who Dana K. White is, she’s written several books, three quarters of a million books sold. So like she knows what she is talking about.

Dana K White (01:41.715)

you

Kathi Lipp (02:00.18)

Also a YouTube star. for my, you know, millennials and, you know, Z listeners, you guys have seen her. I’m sure you have. But I, here’s what I want to discuss because when I first started in this decluttering game, I did not understand that I would be talking. I thought I was going to be talking about organizational systems. I thought I was going to be talking. What I end up talking about all the time.

is shame. And I, why do shame and clutter go hand in hand? Why are these two things like kissin’ cousins? Because I don’t know that a lot of people who are struggling with clutter think it’s shame based, but I would say when I’m talking to people, at least 75 % of the time it is.

Dana K White (02:54.695)

Well, think, so coming at it, not necessarily from the clutter being the result of the shame, but the shame being result of the clutter. what, okay, so my story is that I started this anonymous blog. I thought it was gonna be temporary. It was just gonna be practice because I was desperate to write, but my house had always been a disaster, like always, always, always. Every space I touched turned into a disaster, right? And so I,

Kathi Lipp (02:59.694)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (03:12.876)

Yeah.

Dana K White (03:20.723)

was writing about this, thinking it was a way to stay focused on my home and be able to figure that out so I could then start writing about other things that I actually had any desire whatsoever to write about, which was not this. And I was anonymous in the beginning because I didn’t tell anybody what I was doing. I didn’t even tell my husband. I was so, this was my shameful secret. Like my clutter was my shameful secret. And a lot of…

Kathi Lipp (03:30.538)

Right. Yes.

Kathi Lipp (03:44.556)

Yeah.

Dana K White (03:50.279)

my actual change came from the fact that people started reading what I was doing. And while I assumed that they were gonna say, well, get off the internet, you’re a horrible person, right? Instead, what they said was, these are my thoughts, these are my struggles, these are the same things that go through my head, the same things that I do. And so knowing I was not alone was actually the most powerful thing in being able to change.

Kathi Lipp (04:02.368)

Right?

Kathi Lipp (04:06.413)

Yeah.

Dana K White (04:17.809)

Because what I saw, like, so this was back in 2009, remember the blogging days, right? And when people would leave a comment, you would click on their name on Blogger and you could see a little profile about them, right? And I started to see that these were highly creative women, like artists and poets and lots of theater arts teachers. I was a theater arts teacher, right? Like before I had kids. so like I…

Kathi Lipp (04:23.704)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (04:38.23)

Yes.

Dana K White (04:47.867)

there was this common thread. They were also very highly successful women, right? And so I saw that, okay, so this creative side of me that I’ve always been like, thank you God for making me creative, right? Was directly related to my struggles with clutter. And when I saw that, it helped me accept that this struggle is part of how my brain works. And I like my brain, it’s a little weird, you know? I like it.

Kathi Lipp (05:01.44)

Right?

Kathi Lipp (05:13.112)

Yes. Right? Yes.

Dana K White (05:18.373)

except for this issue. And when I realized that, it gave me permission to say, okay, I don’t have to feel like a failure because traditional organizing advice doesn’t work for me, right? Because the people writing that have very different brains than mine, right? And so, exactly. So I think the shame issue often comes down to the disconnect between I am a successful, intelligent woman.

Kathi Lipp (05:28.876)

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (05:34.125)

Yes!

Kathi Lipp (05:47.224)

Mm-hmm.

Dana K White (05:48.765)

But if you look at my house, you’re gonna assume that I’m an idiot. I know that sounds awful and harsh, right? But that’s the way I felt like. Like you look at my house and you think, you would never assume that I was a successful, intelligent woman, right? And so this disconnect of like, but I can do things. I can figure things out. I am able to go out there and lead and do things. And people who knew me in the workplace,

Kathi Lipp (05:57.835)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (06:08.919)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (06:12.802)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dana K White (06:18.969)

never thought I was a horrible disorganized mess at home. people would tell me they were very surprised to find that out about me. And so it becomes this shameful secret that you wanna hide. And then also makes you feel bad about yourself. Because you’re like, this seems to be easy for everybody else in the world. This doesn’t make sense with who I am. Right, so anyway, I think that’s where a lot of that shame comes from is that disconnect.

Kathi Lipp (06:25.474)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (06:29.6)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (06:41.324)

Yes.

Dana K White (06:43.031)

of I can do things, but I for some reason cannot do this thing. Like of all things, this is the thing I can’t do. What? Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (06:50.122)

Right, and let me just affirm so much of what you’re saying. Cluttery people are the most creative people I have encountered. They are intelligent and they are incredibly kind. Like they would give you anything that they could find in their house if they could find it. And so, yeah, so.

Dana K White (07:06.247)

Yes.

Dana K White (07:13.23)

And they brought it into their house thinking of what your needs might be in the future. Right? Like, and I think that’s where so much of the disconnect comes in. You know, I mean, we’re gonna, you my new book is spiritually focused. My other books have no spiritual content in them, right? But this, the idea that,

Kathi Lipp (07:18.208)

It’s so true. It is so true.

Kathi Lipp (07:28.632)

Right.

Dana K White (07:35.741)

people are collecting that they have clutter because they’ve been collecting things out of greed or selfishness is just not true. And so when somebody’s coming at it from that angle of like, okay, well, you need to be less greedy and less selfish. Well, like you said, you know, in your experience working with people who struggle with clutter, they are not greedy or selfish. That is not the reason that this clutter is here. And so then if people are coming at it trying to be helpful from that angle, then I already feel misunderstood.

Kathi Lipp (07:41.868)

No, it’s not.

Kathi Lipp (07:53.75)

Mm-hmm. No, no.

Dana K White (08:05.243)

I already feel like you don’t get it, so therefore you’re not gonna be able to help me. And so then that’s where it becomes even more shameful when you feel like, okay, I think I’m doomed to this.

Kathi Lipp (08:05.303)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (08:16.566)

Yes, absolutely. There’s no way out. I’m going to be like this for the rest of my life because I’ve tried everything and it doesn’t work. And you know, when you I love what you were saying there because oftentimes I would bring things into my house and or I would ignore messes in my house because I was out there in the world doing so much and then my house would get the last bit of attention because I was

Dana K White (08:25.553)

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (08:46.87)

I was giving everything away out in the world. And I felt like I had to do that because of this shame. so it’s this, it’s this piling on top of each other, on top of each other. And it’s heartbreaking for so many people. And so, okay, I, here’s what I want to do. I want to take a quick break. And when we come back, I want to understand what, what does Jesus think about this? What does God think about this? Because

You know, I think about verses about put all things in order and things, you know, God is a God of order. We see that everywhere. But, and then when we try to reconcile that with who we are, man, the shame can just, it can even go deeper. So we’re gonna take a quick break, listen to a couple of commercials, pay a couple of bills, and then we’re gonna come back and Dana is going to lay it all out for us, friends. Okay, we’ll be right back.

Okay, I am back with Dana K. White. And first of all, I love the title of your new book, Jesus Doesn’t Care About Your Messy House. But Dana, my people are gonna say, yes, He does. Because God is a God of order. know, God wants us to be hospitable and bring people into our spaces. So like, Dana, you are telling us untruths.

Dana K White (10:07.859)

Okay, so yeah, but I mean it. Like I absolutely mean that, that Jesus doesn’t. No, I’m glad you brought up, because it is a reaction, right? Like it’s not what I thought, but I’m like, here’s what I, the title is not, Jesus Doesn’t Care About Your Messy House So Don’t Bother. Like that’s not at all the title, right? The title is meant.

Kathi Lipp (10:11.51)

Do you love that I called you a liar right here on the podcast?

It is, right?

Kathi Lipp (10:32.514)

Yeah.

Dana K White (10:35.275)

And I mean what I say because nothing I do gets me closer to God, right? Like I do not earn his love. He is looking at my heart. And when He’s looking at my heart, especially because He created my brain on purpose, it’s not defective, it was not a mistake.

that He made me in a way that physical stuff tends to get out of control more easily for me than for someone else, right? That’s not a mistake. So when He’s looking at me, He’s like, I know that, right? I know this is a struggle. It doesn’t mean that I don’t work on it, but it doesn’t mean that it has any effect whatsoever on my relationship with Jesus, right? Because when God looks at me, if I am a follower of Jesus, He’s seeing Jesus’ righteousness on me. And if I think that,

Kathi Lipp (11:23.862)

Right.

Dana K White (11:32.775)

that He’s seeing me and what I, you know, have accomplished and what I have done and that that’s getting me toward Him, then I don’t actually get what He’s looking for, right? And so then that’s actually what I wouldn’t say frustrates, but you know what I mean? Like that’s the thing that keeps me from God, is not understanding what it is that He’s actually asking of me. So it’s very important to understand that because so many times over the years, right?

Kathi Lipp (11:42.669)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (11:49.078)

Right.

Dana K White (12:01.768)

is people can say things like, but God is a God of order. But the Proverbs 31 woman, you know, she wasn’t lazy. And you’re like, okay, but

Kathi Lipp (12:08.024)

Yeah, gosh, yeah.

Dana K White (12:15.299)

let’s have the full conversation there. Let’s have the full conversation about Jesus doesn’t care about your messy house. It doesn’t mean that you don’t worry about it, but you don’t worry about it as a way to please God, right? And so when we take that shame away, because for me, I assumed when I started this whole deslobification process, I was like, I thought that at some point, God was going to show me the verse I had missed, or the spiritual concept that I had not understood, and I was going to go,

Kathi Lipp (12:17.196)

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (12:28.557)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (12:35.192)

Mm-hmm.

Dana K White (12:44.667)

Okay, now it’s all easy, right? Like I thought I was missing something spiritually. And instead He said, Dana, I have never been upset about your messy house. I want you to give Me your heart, like all of you to use as I see fit, right? And so give Me everything, but not as a way to earn Jesus’ love, right? And so it’s this thing of removing that shame.

Kathi Lipp (12:47.83)

Right. Yes.

Kathi Lipp (12:58.35)

Hmm.

Dana K White (13:13.115)

And removing the shame is actually the thing that allows me to move forward. Like we were talking about, like shame is such an issue. It’s so debilitating. Shame is not motivating at all. It is not. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (13:19.266)

Yes, it is not. And shame is not going to change you in the positive and it’s not gonna change anybody you love. Because I’m sure so many of us who are listening here were shamed about our messy rooms, were shamed about our backpacks in school. I remember, I haven’t remembered this in 40 years, but I remember a teacher bringing me to the front of class.

Dana K White (13:30.653)

Yes.

Dana K White (13:36.403)

Yep.

Kathi Lipp (13:48.16)

and making me unpack my backpack. Like I have repressed that, right? Right?

Dana K White (13:52.275)

makes me wanna cry because I, well, and here’s the thing. I understand that they think they’re being helpful, right? Like I understand that. And yet, and yet it backfires because you, I’m assuming, felt very misunderstood, right? Because if the teacher thought that was gonna help you, then they didn’t understand the problem. And it’s not like you loved having a messy backpack, right? I did not like any of my messy spaces.

Kathi Lipp (14:00.3)

Right. And yet.

Kathi Lipp (14:12.119)

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (14:16.766)

Right. No, no.

Dana K White (14:22.001)

but for you to come in and say, you know, this is, that God is a God of order. Well, that doesn’t actually give me anything to go on. Like it doesn’t help at all. Besides the fact, I’m just gonna say real quick that the God is a God of order.

Kathi Lipp (14:30.423)

Right.

Dana K White (14:37.209)

The actual context there of when that phrase is said in the Bible is talking about how to run a meeting at church. Right? And I just want to be clear, like, that’s actually my superpower. I am really good at running meetings. Like, like you could ask me to run a meeting of world leaders. And while I might be a little intimidated, I would absolutely be like, well, yeah.

Kathi Lipp (14:54.03)

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (15:03.619)

Mm-hmm.

Dana K White (15:05.843)

because guess what I’m really good at? I’m good at that. Well, here’s the problem. If I do understand that context and I go, I am really good at this thing and God is a God of order. this is my way to please God, right? I’m off track. I’m off track. And so either way that you go and you hear a lot of, I’ve heard the, you know, the message of this book from the other perspective of like, okay, I couldn’t stop cleaning.

Kathi Lipp (15:20.076)

Right? Yeah.

Dana K White (15:34.125)

And God finally showed me that I never cared about your messy house and so it’s okay to relax and let people see imperfection. And I’m like, that’s truth. However, that is not truth that is helpful for me. Because I would hear that story and I would think, well, I would sure love to have that problem. And so what about for me as the person who felt defective and, you know,…

Kathi Lipp (15:34.125)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (15:43.116)

Yeah. Yes.

Right?

Kathi Lipp (15:52.832)

Yes. Yes.

Dana K White (16:00.879)

had so much shame, like how does this apply to me? And that’s what this book is. It’s like, how do we apply that to this? As I was never looking at that, whether it’s you’re obsessed with a perfection or you’re, you know, feel completely overwhelmed and not able to do it. taking away that shame is the thing that allows us to move forward. I feel like I’ve been rambling. I’m sorry. You can stop me.

Kathi Lipp (16:21.12)

No, you are not rambling. You are spitting truth, my friend. You are spitting truth. And you know, I have a lot of people on this podcast and we can’t always talk this deeply about the concepts because either they have not experienced it like you and I have, or they’re still figuring it. But when we start to see, it’s two sides of the same problem.

when somebody has a house that is so clean that you don’t want to sit down because I just yesterday saw on TikTok a woman who said, yeah, we don’t sit on our couch with outside clothes. And I’m like, what’s outside clothes? And literally it was her husband’s jeans. He looked like he might be an engineer or something like that. So that’s one side of the issue. And then this other where,

Dana K White (17:09.489)

hilarious yeah

Kathi Lipp (17:17.504)

I think what people think is that people who struggle with clutter struggle with this mess are are lazy. And here’s the thing I don’t I have not met anybody with this problem who is lazy. I have met people who struggle they don’t know what the next step is. Maybe they’re on the spectrum with ADHD or they’re depressed like I’ve met a lot of people

who have these auxiliary situations, I’ve yet to meet the lazy person.

Dana K White (17:52.947)

Yeah, and that’s the thing is, when you Google, is cleanliness next to godliness in the Bible, right? There’s all these different blurbs and even if you don’t go and actually read any of them, the vast majority will say no, but the concept is true and then they will mention the Proverbs 31 woman. Well, guess what is not in Proverbs 31? What is never mentioned? Cleanliness, the state of her home,

Kathi Lipp (18:00.994)

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (18:13.486)

Mmm.

Dana K White (18:22.355)

clutter, nothing. Nothing is even mentioned. So I go through the whole Proverbs 31 verse by verse and I’m like, it’s not here, but…

Kathi Lipp (18:28.066)

Yeah. Yes.

Dana, are you telling me that the Proverbs 31 girl is our girl? Like, could she be our girl?

Dana K White (18:38.223)

I’m gonna tell you something. She reminds me of the people who have clutter, right? Like, because she is so focused on other people, she is so industrious, she works hard all the time. I’m like, you know, it’s like when people talk about, well, the Mary and Martha thing and blah, blah. And I’m like, guess who I relate more to? The busy one.

Kathi Lipp (18:44.524)

Yes! Yes!

Kathi Lipp (18:58.341)

mm-hmm. Right, absolutely.

Dana K White (19:01.841)

Right, like I relate more to her. The people I know who don’t have clutter issues tend to be able to relax in those situations a lot more than me. And so I’m like, it’s this thing where there’s assumptions that if your house is messy, it’s because you’re lazy. And then knowing that that’s not true and yet not being able to convince anyone that that’s not true because the state of your home makes everybody, so you know, it’s like this bad thing of like, we have to get in there and we have to speak the truth about this. And like, I really do like.

Kathi Lipp (19:08.983)

Yes!

Dana K White (19:29.849)

She reminds me of the women who I know and possibly myself even in certain situations, but like the women I know who are the go-to woman that everybody depends on, that everybody looks to to be able to organize any event and do anything. And yet you don’t know what her house actually looks like. And so I’m not saying she was messy. I’m just saying that’s not helpful because it’s not actually in there. Like don’t use her as this.

Kathi Lipp (19:32.174)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:45.792)

Yes.

Dana K White (19:57.085)

thing to aspire to, because anyway, again, shame is not motivating. It’s not helpful.

Kathi Lipp (20:01.228)

I love what you’re saying. And what you’re saying is all these things that we’ve heard before, what is actually helpful in that? That’s the question. And it’s also the question with my clutter oftentimes, what’s actually helpful in here? But with this truth, what is actually helpful? So tell me, what is actually helpful?

Dana K White (20:09.607)

Yes. Yes.

Dana K White (20:14.973)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (20:26.188)

when it comes to motivating me to get decluttered, motivating my listener to get decluttered.

Dana K White (20:26.556)

Yeah.

Dana K White (20:32.125)

So once the shame is gone, then we can actually do stuff, right? Like we can actually do the things. Although I’m a big fan of going ahead and doing the thing and that’s actually what helps the shame be gone, right? Is that. So like I have my no mess decluttering process and we start with trash, right? And that’s one of those things that sometimes, I mean, you’re an author so you know reviews can be wonderful and awful, right? I choose to view bad reviews as good as long as they actually like give some real information. Like if they say,

Kathi Lipp (20:34.798)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (20:42.455)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:54.286)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (21:01.217)

Guess.

Dana K White (21:01.861)

when people say stuff like, can’t believe people need to be told to start with trash, who has trash? And I’m like, well, guess what? Now the person who read that review knows that this book is actually what they need, right? So yeah, and so like starting with the trash, like this is the stuff that somebody who would never even think to just randomly set down, you know, a string cheese wrapper as opposed to putting it in the trash, like I have no idea that that thing left my hand, right?

Kathi Lipp (21:12.192)

It’s so true.

Kathi Lipp (21:31.36)

Right, absolutely.

Dana K White (21:31.439)

And so we start with the trash, we go through the process. How do we start? We start with the very, very easiest decision-free stuff, right? So like trash is actual trash. It’s not, I’m not gonna convince you that it’s trash. We’re not gonna call your mom and say, would you say this is trash? I’m not gonna analyze what my mom would say if she was here. It’s all just like the actual trash. And if I’m helping you and I’m like, how do they not see that’s trash?

Kathi Lipp (21:51.758)

Right.

Dana K White (22:01.437)

I’m not gonna say anything, because we will get to it over the course of the process, right? But it’s that how do we actually help? We give real actual strategies where I don’t consider, and I don’t know how you view this, but like for me, because I was doing figuring this out in my own home and what was helpful for me and what wasn’t, it is actually not helpful for me as a highly creative person to ask myself if I’ll ever use something. Like, because I can come up with a reason.

Kathi Lipp (22:05.442)

Right?

Kathi Lipp (22:26.029)

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (22:30.574)

goodness, I was just consulting with somebody today and she’s like, I don’t know why I keep this and I said, because your brain can come up with 700 possible uses, none of which you probably will ever do. But you could. Yeah.

Dana K White (22:38.429)

Yes, right, right.

Dana K White (22:43.899)

And if I focus on what, if I could ever use it, then all my mental energy is going toward all these possibilities. And that’s not actually helpful. Like nothing is happening here in this situation. So instead I start with trash and then I ask myself my real defining decluttering question is if I needed this item, where would I look for it first? Right? So there’s no, there’s no like, is it a good thing? That’s all good. Cause why would I have it in my house if it wasn’t right? So, you know, but if I needed this item, where would I look for it first?

Kathi Lipp (22:52.438)

Right. Yes.

Kathi Lipp (23:01.888)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (23:07.2)

Yeah, exactly.

Dana K White (23:14.131)

And that’s not where would it be? Like those are two different questions. Because if I already know where it would be, it left in step two, which is dealing with the stuff that I already know what to do with it, right? So by the time I’m asking myself the question, where would I look for this earring? Okay, cause I took them out cause they were banging on my headphone things. Yeah. But if I was asking myself, you know, where would I look first for these earrings? If I needed these earrings.

Kathi Lipp (23:24.098)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (23:29.836)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, thank you.

Dana K White (23:43.119)

It is literally an answer, an instinctual answer. I may not trust my instincts yet, but that’s how I’m gonna learn to trust them, right? If I needed my earrings, where would I look for them first? And it’s wherever I would picture myself going at the beginning of what I assume is gonna be a three hour search for my earrings, right? And so where’s the first, what’s the drawer that I would open? What’s the cabinet I would walk to?

Kathi Lipp (23:45.56)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (23:54.509)

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (24:04.065)

Mmm, where’s the first step?

Yeah, right.

Dana K White (24:11.879)

where is the first place where I look? And then I take them there right now. I don’t set them aside to do later or put it in a keep box that I’ll go put everything, because then I would have to go back through these questions again, right? So that’s, even though it feels less efficient to take it there now, that’s actually the transformational step, right? So I’m gonna take it there now and I’m gonna face the reality of that space. Is there any room for these?

Kathi Lipp (24:16.919)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (24:23.563)

Yeah, right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (24:33.848)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (24:38.294)

It’s a great question. Yeah.

Dana K White (24:38.331)

And if there’s not, if there’s not any room for them, then what am I willing to get rid of in order to make the room for these? And if I’m not willing to get rid of anything, then these actually aren’t as important to me and I can let them go, right? But I’m gonna face that reality when I get to that space because I took it there now and I acted on that and I’m gonna base everything in actual facts outside of the things I could come up with.

Kathi Lipp (24:46.573)

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (25:03.757)

Yes.

Dana K White (25:06.639)

Because the creativity, yes, it’s my superpower, it’s also my downfall, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (25:10.99)

It’s your kryptonite. It’s your superpower and your kryptonite and we don’t want to squash the creativity in these beautiful human beings who God created that way, but we also want you to be able to function in your house and

Dana K White (25:28.261)

Exactly. Well, and I hear from people all the time, because I say all the time, I’m like, you can keep anything, but you can’t keep everything. Right. And so, and people are like, okay, well, cause I thought you were going to come in here and you were going to tell me this was dumb and that was bad and this should go and you shouldn’t have this. And so I’m raring to go. Like I’ve got all these reasons, you know, why I should keep all this stuff. And when you tell me, you can keep anything. You just can’t keep everything. Then I’m like,

Kathi Lipp (25:33.654)

Mm-hmm. It’s so true.

Kathi Lipp (25:46.03)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (25:51.094)

Right? Mm-hmm.

Dana K White (25:58.885)

Okay, it’s just a shift in your brain that it makes a huge, huge difference.

Kathi Lipp (25:59.981)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (26:04.193)

The way I say it is there’s no morality in keeping or giving that thing away. These things are morally neutral, but what’s gonna serve your life? What’s going to bring you happiness? What’s gonna make you function better? Those are the things that we wanna keep in your house, but we also have to be able to find those things when we need them. And yeah.

Dana K White (26:11.027)

Mm-hmm.

Dana K White (26:26.919)

Right, which is what happens when you put it in the first place where you would look for it. Then you find it, right? Yeah, yeah.

Kathi Lipp (26:30.922)

It’s, which is brilliant. Yes. I love that so much. How has understanding this changed your life? mean, I know you have this big business, you’re on YouTube, you write the book, but like your life and your home, what is the biggest difference for you now that shame is not the go-to feeling with everything going on in your

Dana K White (26:57.651)

Yeah, so the shame went away as I was working on my house, but as I was working my house, I was realizing that Jesus didn’t care about my messy house, right? Like, there, you know, I always say that’s, I’ve kind of earned the right to write a book called Jesus Doesn’t Care About Your Messy House because I’ve written three books about how to keep, get your house under control, you know? So it’s like, I’m not, no, only people who don’t understand and who don’t pay attention can accuse me of saying that it doesn’t matter.

Kathi Lipp (27:09.548)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (27:14.573)

Guess.

Kathi Lipp (27:19.883)

Right?

Dana K White (27:27.217)

Right? I know it matters and I know it matters to the person who’s struggling. Right? What was the question? I don’t know. just… Welcome to my brain.

Kathi Lipp (27:27.714)

Right.

Absolutely. What, Dana, we are so, no wonder our friends keep saying you guys need to hang out together because we are exactly the same person in different fonts. What in your life, now that the shame is not the first thought, like what, what can either you see or the people who live with you see as the biggest difference?

Dana K White (27:41.938)

Right.

Dana K White (27:48.307)

Okay, yeah.

Dana K White (27:58.321)

We can function. So the stuff is not all gone, but it’s, I’ve embraced the reality of my space, right? Like that’s my big thing is like, just embrace the reality of your space. And if I try to keep more stuff than I have space for it, then there’s no hope of my house being under control, right? So the fact that our lives are not inhibited by the state of my home.

Kathi Lipp (27:59.778)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (28:03.959)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (28:07.65)

Nya.

Kathi Lipp (28:11.682)

Mm.

Kathi Lipp (28:15.757)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (28:20.59)

Hmm

Yes.

Dana K White (28:23.481)

That is the thing, like, cause you know, you said I write books, I do YouTube. That’s the kind of stuff I like doing. I thought when I started all this, that my goal was to have like a, of course, Pinterest didn’t exist, but you know, like a magazine picture home. Like I just assumed that’s what I want. I love those images. And yet in reality, what I really wanted to do was not be held back by my house. I wanted to be able to be the person who can

Kathi Lipp (28:28.397)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (28:36.428)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (28:48.045)

Yeah.

Dana K White (28:52.345)

volunteer at the actual last moment to host something in my home because somebody else’s power went out and there was a plan, you know, for the prom girls to get ready there. And I’m like, you can do it at my house. You know, like, that is something I never could do before, but it was the person I wanted to be. I wanted to be that kind of mom who was like, sure, yes, bring them bring everybody over here. And yet my house was in a state where I couldn’t do that. And to have people over was a two week ordeal.

Kathi Lipp (29:00.866)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (29:04.685)

Right?

Dana K White (29:22.175)

where I would shove everything into the room, the door would lock, and then I would actually clean because I couldn’t have, you know, I wasn’t able to clean with all the clutter everywhere. So yeah, just, lets me be who I wanna be.

Kathi Lipp (29:31.478)

Yeah. You know, and it’s so interesting because yeah, people push back on, you know, my ideas about decluttering all the time. But 20 years ago, I could not have been that person. And last week we had some clients show up and they said, we were so dumb. We booked our hotel room an hour and a half in the opposite direction. Like, well, just spend the night. And they’re like, what? I’m like, yeah, just spend the night. We’re fine. And like,

It didn’t until later that night. I didn’t realize the transformation and the girls coming over and getting ready for prom like to other people That would just be a Tuesday, but for us it says our whole lives have changed and It’s possible. That’s what I want people to hear One Jesus doesn’t care about your messy house. I love the the title of your book and guys we’ll have a link to that

Dana K White (30:17.405)

Exactly, Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (30:30.402)

where you can get it at, you know, Amazon or wherever you love to buy books. But also the thing I want you to hear from what Dana has said, what I am saying is this shame free life is possible. You can be the person that invites people into your home. You can be the person who has a last minute overnight guest. You can be the person who says I can volunteer for that.

because I’m not abandoning my home, my home functions, and that makes the rest of my life possible. And it’s how Jesus wants us to live. It’s not about the state of your home, it’s about how you can function in the world with the home you have. And Dana, I love this so much. I traditionally do not read other decluttering books because I…

Dana K White (31:24.359)

Me neither.

Kathi Lipp (31:25.366)

I don’t want to be accused of stealing Dana Kay or Fly Lady or anything like that. But this one I’m going to read because I came in with the questions about how are you going to support this thesis? And I love what you said here because there’s such freedom and it’s such practical freedom too. I love that so much. Dana, thank you so much for being here today.

Dana K White (31:27.591)

I am the exact same way, yes, yep.

Okay, thank you.

Dana K White (31:49.021)

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on and I’m just so honored and excited that we finally got to meet.

Kathi Lipp (31:54.342)

I love it. It’s the beginning of a beautiful clutter free relationship. And I love that so much with a little bit of sass, a little bit of mess, because you know what? That’s okay. That’s how I function best. And I know that’s how you function best too. We’re never going to be that Pinterest Martha Stewart. And you know what? God didn’t want us to be that way. And that’s why we are who we are. Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter free life.

Dana K White (31:58.674)

Ha ha!

Dana K White (32:06.428)

Yeah.

Dana K White (32:14.29)

No.

Kathi Lipp (32:24.14)

You’ve always wanted to live.

#683 – Declutter Your Bathroom Sink Space (Even With Zero Storage!)

Aug 19, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast, tips and ideas

Tired of opening your bathroom cabinets only to find chaos staring back at you? You're not alone. In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi teams up with decluttering expert Tonya Kubo to tackle one of the most frustrating spaces in many homes: the bathroom sink...

#682 – Back-to-School Prep: Tips for a Smooth Transition

Aug 12, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Parenting, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by Tonya Kubo to tackle the often chaotic back-to-school season. They explore practical strategies to help families organize their homes and lives for a smoother transition into the school year such as ...

#681 – Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

Aug 5, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and the creative genius, Tenille Register, as they explore the journey of embracing space over stuff to live a clutter-free life. In this episode, you'll discover Practical strategies for decluttering with purpose. How choosing space can lead to a...

#655 Finding Grace in Your Imperfect Space: A Conversation with Hilary Bernstein

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Feb 4, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Freedom, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast | 0 comments

#655 Finding Grace in Your Imperfect Space: A Conversation with Hilary Bernstein

Listen Now

Hey there, friend!

Are you caught in the tension between wanting a perfect home and feeling overwhelmed by the impossibility of achieving it? In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp sits down with Hilary Bernstein, author of “The Tension of Tidy,” to explore the connection between perfectionism and our struggle with clutter.

Learn why perfectionists often have the hardest time maintaining an organized home and discover practical strategies for breaking free from the paralysis of perfectionism. Hilary shares insights about finding God’s grace in our imperfect spaces and offers hope for those caught between Pinterest-perfect expectations and real-life limitations.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

– Why perfectionism often leads to cluttered spaces

– How to celebrate small wins in home management

– Practical first steps for overwhelmed perfectionists

– Biblical perspective on imperfect spaces

– Permission to invite people into your imperfect home

Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

Hilary Bernstein’s book “The Tension of Tidy“
Hilary Bernstein’s website

Clutter Free Resources:

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

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Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

Meet Our Guest

Hilary Bernstein

Hilary Bernstein is the women’s ministry director at The Chapel in Green, Ohio, where she brings a wealth of experience from her roles as a blogger, newspaper editor, and columnist. A prolific author, Bernstein, has recently published Prayerful Living and twelve other impactful devotional books. More information can be found at hilarybernstein.com.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:10)
Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with the Clutter-Free queen. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. Okay, we don’t often do top 10 lists, but we’re doing a top 10 list today. I, so this is a two-parter. The first part is 10 things I don’t do now that I live clutter-free.

Tonya Kubo (00:24)
Hey Kathi

Kathi Lipp (00:40)
And next week, we’re going to talk about 10 things I do now that I live clutter free. And so I want to talk to you about how your life has changed, the things that you have stopped. And I just realized I told you we were going to do exactly the opposite podcast, but you know what? We’re we’re just fine. We’re just rolling with it. You know, we’re going to live in the moment here. And so I’m going to get us kicked off because I I think

Tonya Kubo (00:53)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:10)
People would not recognize my life From before clutter free now clutter free has not always I did not say hey I’m gonna start something called clutter free and now I’m gonna change my life like I changed my life and Then I thought I’m not the only one like this I wrote a book called clutter free and then I met my friend Tonya Kubo who seemed like the most put-together human being on the planet, but told me no

Tonya Kubo (01:21)
No.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:39)
her life was a mess too, and we started to figure all this stuff out together. And what a gift that was because as much as the book helped people, I know that our Clutter-Free Academy, Clutter-Free for Life and this podcast have helped just exponentially more people. I really, people don’t believe that I was cluttery at one point. And I’m like, no, I’m still cluttery at some points, but.

Tonya Kubo (01:57)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

still cluttering. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (02:09)
I’m not afraid

to invite you into my house. So I wanted to talk about what are some key things that look different now than they did when I was clutter free. number one, I don’t save up decluttering for the weekends. And this has been a huge shift for me because I would always think as I’ve…

Tonya Kubo (02:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:32)
pretty much always been a Monday through Friday, nine to five kind of person and who actually works nine to five. Let’s be clear, it’s eight to six. But I’ve pretty much been that person my whole life and I was just so busy during the week that I’m like, I’m just gonna save all this up for the weekends. And I don’t live like that anymore. Like as I am leaving a room, I’m like, are there things I can grab to throw away, to put away, to declutter?

Tonya Kubo (02:39)
Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (03:00)
Is that similar for you?

Tonya Kubo (03:03)
Yeah, I mean, I still think, you know, because my kids are younger, right? Like our house is always in some state of shambles, but you know, little things that I used to on Fridays clean off my desk, for instance. And now it’s just at the end of the day, right? It just is so much easier to take like a handful of stuff at the end of each day than to have to make multiple trips every Friday.

Kathi Lipp (03:06)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

It makes such a difference, right? Because I don’t know, there’s just something about like, I’ve saved this up for an entire week. You know, instead of just saying, okay, a little bit of time, a little bit of time, my brain has shifted into small amounts of decluttering instead of huge mountains of decluttering. Okay, so that’s number one. Tonya, we’re going back and forth. Tonya, what’s number two?

Tonya Kubo (03:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Kathi Lipp (03:54)
something that you don’t do now that you live clutter-free.

Tonya Kubo (03:57)
Okay, so this might seem silly, but I genuinely used to think unloading the dishwasher took 30 minutes and now I realize it takes about three and a half. So I don’t put off unloading the dishwasher till the weekend. Like seriously, I made it into such a big job in my head and I don’t need more.

Kathi Lipp (04:11)
Right?

Yeah, yes,

I feel like doing the dishes could take a half hour if you’ve got a lot of dishes piled up if you have things that need to be soaked like, you know, deep, deep scrub. Right.

Tonya Kubo (04:24)
Right, but I didn’t say doing the dishes, Kathi. I just

said unload the dishwasher.

Kathi Lipp (04:30)
just thinking maybe that’s why your brain was playing tricks on you and here’s what I know is when you when you unload the dishes here’s the magical thing it’s easier to load the dishes I know that seems like it should be obvious but our cluttery people will get that

Tonya Kubo (04:42)
Right.

Yeah, no, exactly, exactly.

Kathi Lipp (04:49)
Yeah, okay. Number three, I don’t stand next to the gas pump while it’s filling up. I, okay, so I think a lot of our cluttering friends will get this. I went, those small moments, like just like you were talking about with the microwave, I unload the dishwasher in the two and a half minutes that my, or I at least get it started in the two and a half minutes that my oatmeal is cooking.

Tonya Kubo (05:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:18)
And

so now I am married to somebody who does quiet contemplation while his coffee is warming up. And I’m like, you know what, we just live different lives. while I’m pumping my gas, I clean out the car. I just grab a few things. I throw them into the garbage. I feel like that’s free garbage. Garbage is such a big deal up here.

Tonya Kubo (05:24)
Hahaha

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yes,

it is free garbage. I am right there with you.

Kathi Lipp (05:45)
It makes me so happy. I can’t even stand it. Yeah, I’m never somebody who would bring garbage from my house to throw away. I’ve heard of people doing that. I know. But if I’ve got a McDonald’s cup, that that’s going in the garbage while I’m pumping. It is I’m doing all the things and even like our truck takes a long time to fill up. I have been known to we have a like a hand vac in the truck.

Tonya Kubo (05:53)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yup.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:14)
and I’ve been known to like vacuum things out while I’m doing, yeah, it makes me so happy I can’t even stand it. Okay, but I’m doing, what the core concept behind that is it just takes a moment to make a small difference. And like you just said with the unloading dishwasher and even with the, I don’t save up decluttering for the weekends. If I can do a little bit each day, man, the weekends can be for.

Tonya Kubo (06:17)
Nice.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:42)
fun or bigger projects or things like that. Okay, number four, Tonya, what’s something that you don’t do now that you’re living clutter free?

Tonya Kubo (06:44)
Mm-hmm.

I don’t go shopping when I’m tired, hungry, or frustrated.

Kathi Lipp (06:56)
That’s my favorite time to go shopping. Okay, tell me more. Right.

Tonya Kubo (06:58)
It’s everybody’s favorite time to go shopping.

Right. But I mean, something that I learned early on in my clutter free journey is that when I’m tired, I’m hungry or I’m frustrated, my tolerance, like my my impulse control is lower and my desire to soothe is higher. And so I feel like everything I see at the store is going to make me feel better. And it is not.

Kathi Lipp (07:16)
Yeah.

Mmm, good.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (07:26)
to make me feel better. I am still going to leave the store tired, hungry, and frustrated so I may as well just solve those problems before I go.

Kathi Lipp (07:33)
Okay, can I tell you how I’m even worse at this and it’s something I need to correct in my own life. So I go to the store, which is a chore, right? That is an errand. Right. And I feel like because I have done that, even when I was living in San Jose and things were like five minutes, like, look at me checking things off of my list. I deserve a little treat, a little treaty treat. Can we just say that shopping and Target

Tonya Kubo (07:42)
Yeah, it’s a jaunt for you. It’s a jaunt.

Hahaha

Kathi Lipp (08:02)
It’s so much better when you have Starbucks. And so like this is the thinking I have to unpack all the time in my cluttery journey. it just, makes a difference. It makes a difference when you say, and I just, but I try not to go, I pack snacks now in our car so that we are not so tempted.

Tonya Kubo (08:05)
I’m sure it is, I’m sure it is.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:32)
Like it’s okay every once in a while to go to Starbucks, but you don’t get Starbucks every time you leave the house. Yes, okay. And so tired, hungry, frustrated will lead you to, and here’s the other part of that that I think is you’re so wise because I’ll just throw things in my cart and I’ll say I’ll return them later if I’m frustrated. Like, you know, don’t go shopping for jeans when you’re tired, frustrated or hungry. That’s just the meanest thing you could do to yourself.

Tonya Kubo (08:32)
Yeah.

Mmm.

No.

Kathi Lipp (09:00)
but then I’ll buy all the jeans and then I’m like, now I have to take them back. And then like, I already have a return right now of a shirt and it’s, we’re recording this around Christmas time. And I’m like, the last thing I want to do on earth is go into a store and return a shirt. Like I can’t think of anything I want to do less. Okay. Number five, I don’t leave a room without scanning the room. So.

Tonya Kubo (09:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm

Kathi Lipp (09:27)
What that means is I don’t, I don’t just walk into another room. I will walk into another room, but I will grab the dish that’s on my desk. I will grab the shirt that needs to be returned. Can you tell I’m going through stuff? I will grab the jacket that needs to be hung downstairs. And here’s why I think that this matters. Even if I’m just going into Roger’s office, which is still on the top of the floor.

I’ll move those things to the top of the stairs so that I used to think if I’m gonna do something, I need to do it all the way. And no, I just need to push it forward. I need to push that chore forward. And that makes a huge difference. It’s like, even if I can’t unload the entire dishwasher while my oatmeal is cooking, I’m pushing it forward enough and I’m yelling up to Roger,

Tonya Kubo (10:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:26)
The dishes are clean, I’m just not done yet. And so he knows not to put dirty dishes in there. But if you can push it forward, then the next time you’re reheating your coffee, you can push it forward another minute and you might get it done. And so scanning a room, seeing what can I push into place? Because here’s what I know, if I leave it all until I have time, then I’m gonna spend half a day going up and down the stairs. And that sounds like my worst nightmare, I hate that stuff.

Tonya Kubo (10:29)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (10:56)
Yeah, okay. So we have gone through our top five. We’re gonna take a quick break, pay some bills. We’re gonna come back and Tonya is gonna talk about how she doesn’t apologize. I can’t wait to hear about how you do this. Teach me, Obi-Wan. We’ll be right back. Okay, guys, we are back with 10 things I don’t do now that I live clutter free. So Tonya, you say you don’t apologize. For what?

Tonya Kubo (11:23)
I

apologize for the condition of my house.

Kathi Lipp (11:26)
So tell me more. Tell me how I can get brave and be really like, just come on in.

Tonya Kubo (11:33)
well, just stop doing it. I mean, that’s how I did it, right? It was like a cold turkey. Like, I think there was a bit of a transition of where I would say, I probably should apologize for the state of my house, but I won’t. But I just don’t. And, you know, some people come in and say stuff and some people don’t, and I don’t really care. Because what I realize is we all have a different standard. You know, I used to apologize. And I realized that a lot of people

Kathi Lipp (11:37)
wow.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:03)
Like, first of all, I would apologize after spending hours doing a crisis clean because I knew other people would come in and like, and feel like my house was in complete disarray. And I was like, why am I acting like I didn’t just kill myself to make this house look nicer? And then I got to where, you know what? What do I care? mean, people come in, sometimes people are like, wow, you must be really busy. I am. That’s not untrue. I am really busy.

Kathi Lipp (12:13)
Mmm.

Right, right.

It’s a great friend test, right? Can we hang? Can we hang? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:33)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I’m just

like, there’s nothing they could say that’s probably not true to some degree. And I’ve had like repair guys come in, it’s funny, is because the repair guys will come in and our front room doesn’t have flooring. We tore up the flooring and then building costs went up so we have not replaced the flooring. And they’ll go to put the booties on them like, yeah, that’s cute. You don’t have to do that here. And they’ll look around and they’re like, okay.

Kathi Lipp (12:49)
All right. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:01)
Every now and then they’ll say, are you sure? Like, yeah, no, we’re good here.

Kathi Lipp (13:06)
Yeah.

Well, it’s so true. Our lives are all in transition, right? And when you have kids, the amount of day-to-day clutter goes up exponentially. Or maybe you’re in the midst of a big project. You know, I’ll never forget during the launch of Clutter Free, book, the state my house was in. It was like, we can’t take any pictures. And just recently,

Tonya Kubo (13:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:35)
Tenneil who manages our social media said, Kathi, can we get a video of you pushing in a chair? And right now we’re in Christmas crazies. I’m like, it would take me 45 minutes to get to a place to push in a chair. Right, it’s, yeah, because there’s all the fudge making supplies right there, yeah. So are you really, are you using marshmallow fluff in it?

Tonya Kubo (13:45)
No. To push in the chair. You’re like, “‘Cause I can’t get to the chair to push it in.”

Yes, I’m making fudge this weekend too. Anyway, I am.

I am using marshmallow fluff in it. I took a whole class on how to make fudge using marshmallow fluff. It was fun.

Kathi Lipp (14:05)
I saw that I saw that well,

I saw the fudge class. I didn’t know that there was the marshmallow fluff. Yeah, I’m very excited I’m just using a recipe off the internet But as you know, we live next to not next to you know half I don’t know 20 minutes away from a gourmet chocolate shop, which is the only Yeah, they’re a whiner They ship they’re so good but also let’s just say their fudge has gourmet prices and I’m like

Tonya Kubo (14:16)
Mm-hmm.

Little John’s, they ship. Little John’s, you should order from Little John’s.

Yes

Kathi Lipp (14:35)
How much would it cost for me to do this? And Roger’s like, we can buy their other stuff. We never have to buy fudge again. And I was like, I’m an indentured fudge servant now. Got it. Okay. Okay. You know what? It’s good. Hey, speaking of fudge, number seven, I don’t buy all the gear for hobbies unless I have a pattern of doing the hobby. Because here’s what I’ve discovered, Tonya. You know what my hobby is? Buying the stuff for hobbies.

Tonya Kubo (14:44)
Yes, I am too.

Mmm.

I

was gonna say preparing to have a hobby.

Kathi Lipp (15:07)
So here’s what I said, know, like one of the recipes that I am preparing right now called for a candy thermometer. And I’m like, ugh.

Tonya Kubo (15:17)
I need that for the fudge recipe with the marshmallow fluff. You need a candy thermometer.

Kathi Lipp (15:20)
Okay, so here’s what I told

myself if I prepare three recipes right now that don’t require the the thermometer if I if I prepare these three Christmas gift II things then I am allowed to buy a Candy thermometer and I got one by the way Michaels has 30 % off coupons for a while now. So go check that out I got the I think it’s the Wilson one but

Tonya Kubo (15:34)
Mm-hmm.

Ew.

Kathi Lipp (15:49)
I cannot tell you how many hobbies I’ve invested in and had to keep that stuff because I invest I told myself I’ve invested so heavily I need to keep all this stuff. It just it doesn’t make sense and it’s not the right thing. So I no longer I need to have a pattern of Can I start this hobby with stuff I have or can I start this hobby for less than ten dollars? And if I find that I really enjoy it

Tonya Kubo (15:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:19)
Then I will keep going but I am NOT going to go I’ll just say my history is buying at a professional level and performing at an amateur level like it’s not good

Tonya Kubo (16:30)
I

know that feeling though. If I have the same paints and brushes that Bob Ross has, I will make the same pictures that Bob Ross made.

Kathi Lipp (16:37)
Right.

Right, right.

And you know, our friend Cheri Gregory, friend of the podcast, Cheri Gregory calls it buying to become and I have done that for years and years. Okay, Tonya, number eight.

Tonya Kubo (16:49)
Yeah.

Okay, I kind of stole from you because you said that you scan a room before you leave. Before I go to bed, I make a round through the house specifically for dirty dishes. And here’s my, if I made a round through my house for decluttering, I would never make it to bed. But I can make a pass through my teeny tiny house just for dirty dishes in about 25 minutes. And it makes my life so much easier that

Kathi Lipp (16:58)
Yeah. Yeah.

so smart.

No, of course not.

Hmm

Tonya Kubo (17:24)
Like, know, because all run into bulls, where are all the bulls? The bulls are in the kids’ room underneath the bed. Why are they underneath the bed? I actually can’t answer that question, but that is where I find them.

Kathi Lipp (17:33)
Okay, Tonya, we are missing a bowl right now. There are just two of us. There are just two of us. This giant glass bowl, we cannot find. Is it under Lily’s bed? That’s my question now.

Tonya Kubo (17:36)
Maybe it’s under my bed!

It’s probably under Lily’s bed, and this is the worst of it, right? Is the way that Abby’s bed works, it sits lower to the ground. So Abby shoves stuff underneath Lily’s bed too. It’s not even all Lily’s fault.

Kathi Lipp (17:52)
Ugh.

Poor Lily. I’m sorry Lily. I did not mean to throw you under the bus bus or the bed Okay, so you do so what 25 minutes that seems like a long time so break that down for me Really okay

Tonya Kubo (18:13)
It’s a lot of dishes in my kid’s room and a lot of

dishes by Mr. Kubo’s desk. So it’s two trips. Two to three trips from the girl’s room, two trips from Brian’s desk and then

Kathi Lipp (18:20)
Got it. So you’re having to make multiple trips. Got it. Okay. And then

And and you’re

loading you’re soaking all that. Okay, that makes more sense. Okay Okay, that makes total sense. And I think doing doing a round of dishes I really feel like when everything else in your life falls apart the two things that you need to stay on top of are dishes and laundry because Mm-hmm. Yeah

Tonya Kubo (18:49)
Yes and I will say just really quickly that 25 minutes

does include a good five minute temper tantrum of my gosh what is growing in this thing.

Kathi Lipp (19:00)
I love it. Yeah, the the the Dishes and laundry if you stay on top of those like I don’t care how crunchy your kitchen floor gets I don’t care, you know at the I would say the third thing but this doesn’t have to be done as Much is staying on top of bills. Those are the important things that if you fall behind on them It’s going to be super painful to recover from them

Tonya Kubo (19:01)
That’s in there too.

No.

Mm-hmm. yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:25)
But if you can stay on top of those three things, it takes almost the same amount of energy to mop the floor when it’s been a week or five weeks. Like, I don’t want you to have to go five weeks, but if you need to in a crisis, you can. And yeah, and also stay on top of your garbage and recycling. number nine. This is my last thing of things I don’t do now that I live clutter free.

Tonya Kubo (19:37)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:55)
Okay, I try not to I’m still working through this but I’m much better than I used to be I don’t compare my stuff to my friends stuff so Or stuff on social media. There is always a new thing That would make my life two percent easier or two percent better Not not my entire life if something made my entire life two percent better you bet I’m going to invest in that but like

Tonya Kubo (20:04)
Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:25)
Let’s say, know, my, my robot vacuum, there are now robot vacuums that you can control remotely. Like I could be at my mom’s house and now I could get that doesn’t make my life better enough to upgrade my robot. Like my robots fine. We get along. We, she does what she needs to do. I’m sorry. It’s normally a he. I don’t know why I said she, cause I like for all my domestic labor to be he’s.

Tonya Kubo (20:34)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:55)
Because I just think that’s fair But I Just because somebody else has something that has made their life Infamates Lee better. It doesn’t mean that I need to upgrade it. I I try when I see you wearing a cute sweater I’m not going to say you know what? need that cute sweater. I’m gonna I’m one of things I’m trying to do is go into my own closet

Tonya Kubo (21:09)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:22)
and see

my own cute sweaters and the things that make me happy. So I’m trying really hard to reframe what my friends have. And also that can be a form of jealousy. I can just say, you know what? I’m really happy that Tonya has that sweater. I think she looks great in it. She’s having fun with it. And it makes me happy to see her in it. And it doesn’t have to be, I don’t have to own it for it to bring me happiness. So trying to stay out of that comparison trap.

Tonya Kubo (21:33)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (21:52)
And I’m sure when you go into people’s houses that have floors, that can be hard.

Tonya Kubo (21:57)
I do have floor envy right now, I’m not gonna lie. If you’ve got luxury vinyl plank, I’m eyeballing your floors, let me tell ya.

Kathi Lipp (21:59)
I you do.

And I do have that upstairs and I wrestled over that decision for about two years And I’m so glad we pulled the trigger It’s so painful to get flooring done just because of all the moving and shifting and all that kind of stuff Okay, Tonya round out our list. Give us number ten. All right

Tonya Kubo (22:09)
Yeah, no.

It is.

My cluttery peeps will get this. I no longer gain comfort or security from having full shelves, full drawers, etc.

Kathi Lipp (22:33)
yeah, space scares us, doesn’t it? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (22:37)
Space is scary because space is scarcity and lack and my gosh what

if I don’t have enough. But if things are full even if they’re full of stuff that you haven’t worn in 22 years you believe you have enough clothes if for some reason they stopped making all clothing.

Kathi Lipp (22:48)
Right?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so Tonya, this is so interesting. A number of people on TikTok and other apps are doing a no buy 2025, right? And the conventional wisdom is declutter your closet so you can see what you have. And then, so you know what you have, because it is, it’s easier to see what you have when you have less stuff in your closet.

Tonya Kubo (23:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (23:22)
But I heard one woman, I thought this was so interesting. And I’m just gonna throw this out there for your reaction. She goes, I am not decluttering before my 2025. Because when I declutter, I feel like there is empty space. And I feel this urge to fill that space with shopping, with thrifting, with all these other things. So what she is doing is she is.

Tonya Kubo (23:39)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (23:50)
putting some of her clothes into another closet, including clothes she likes, so that she will, she remember, I’ve got more stuff. I don’t know, how does that hit you? I thought it was really interesting. Really.

Tonya Kubo (23:53)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I have a friend who does that actually. she has,

yeah, so she boxes up all of her extra stuff, even if it’s in the current season. And she has it all in like the rafters of her garage. But whenever she’s like, I wanna go shopping, she just goes and she takes a box down and she trades out pieces.

Kathi Lipp (24:10)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You know, I think it’s really interesting. And so I’m not saying one way is better than the other. I’m going to try the other closet boxing because yeah, when I pull out all my winter stuff, I’m so happy. I’m like, I never need to go shopping again. And then after about two weeks, I’m like, you know, people are really into these green grandpa sweaters and like, okay, Kathi, stop, stop, stop, stop.

Tonya Kubo (24:50)
Yeah,

see, and I’m the person, I want all of my clothing to be able to fit in this much of my closet. Like, I don’t wanna ever change anything out. I don’t wanna work that hard. I’m just so, like, I don’t wanna say lazy, but really it’s just like, that is just something that takes such a high level of perceived energy for me that I’m like, I’m good.

Kathi Lipp (24:56)
Yes, you.

Yeah.

Okay, see, even within our Cluttery community, we all have our own little quirks. And that’s why it’s okay for you to forge your own path, but think about the wisdom that will get you to the next space in your Clutter-free journey. I hope one of these has inspired you today. Tonya, thanks so much for hanging out with me.

Tonya Kubo (25:18)
We do.

Thanks for having me.

Kathi Lipp (25:37)
And friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter-free life you always wanted to live.

#683 – Declutter Your Bathroom Sink Space (Even With Zero Storage!)

Tired of opening your bathroom cabinets only to find chaos staring back at you? You're not alone. In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi teams up with decluttering expert Tonya Kubo to tackle one of the most frustrating spaces in many homes: the bathroom sink...

#682 – Back-to-School Prep: Tips for a Smooth Transition

In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by Tonya Kubo to tackle the often chaotic back-to-school season. They explore practical strategies to help families organize their homes and lives for a smoother transition into the school year such as ...

#681 – Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

Join Kathi Lipp and the creative genius, Tenille Register, as they explore the journey of embracing space over stuff to live a clutter-free life. In this episode, you'll discover Practical strategies for decluttering with purpose. How choosing space can lead to a...

#654 Declutter Your Life: 100 Spaces, 15 Minutes Each

by Roger Lipp | Jan 28, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Freedom, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast | 0 comments

#654 Declutter Your Life: 100 Spaces, 15 Minutes Each

Listen Now

Hey there, friend!

In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo help listeners kick off 2025 with a practical plan for a clutter-free home. Kathi shares her personal goal of decluttering 100 spaces in her house this year and how she’s breaking it down into manageable, 15-minute tasks.

Tonya adds her insights on avoiding overwhelm and tailoring the process to fit your unique spaces and needs. Whether you prefer a printable checklist or an editable spreadsheet, this episode provides actionable tools and encouragement to get started. Tune in to learn why small steps lead to big results and how to find hidden peace in your home.

Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

100 Spaces Checklist PDF

Editable Spreadsheet Version

Wallpaper Perforator
Disclosure: This link is an affiliate link, which means if you make a purchase through it, we may earn a small commission at no additional cost to you. Thank you for supporting our work!

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:10)
Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with the Clutter-Free queen. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. Okay, we don’t often do top 10 lists, but we’re doing a top 10 list today. I, so this is a two-parter. The first part is 10 things I don’t do now that I live clutter-free.

Tonya Kubo (00:24)
Hey Kathi

Kathi Lipp (00:40)
And next week, we’re going to talk about 10 things I do now that I live clutter free. And so I want to talk to you about how your life has changed, the things that you have stopped. And I just realized I told you we were going to do exactly the opposite podcast, but you know what? We’re we’re just fine. We’re just rolling with it. You know, we’re going to live in the moment here. And so I’m going to get us kicked off because I I think

Tonya Kubo (00:53)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:10)
People would not recognize my life From before clutter free now clutter free has not always I did not say hey I’m gonna start something called clutter free and now I’m gonna change my life like I changed my life and Then I thought I’m not the only one like this I wrote a book called clutter free and then I met my friend Tonya Kubo who seemed like the most put-together human being on the planet, but told me no

Tonya Kubo (01:21)
No.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:39)
her life was a mess too, and we started to figure all this stuff out together. And what a gift that was because as much as the book helped people, I know that our Clutter-Free Academy, Clutter-Free for Life and this podcast have helped just exponentially more people. I really, people don’t believe that I was cluttery at one point. And I’m like, no, I’m still cluttery at some points, but.

Tonya Kubo (01:57)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

still cluttering. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (02:09)
I’m not afraid

to invite you into my house. So I wanted to talk about what are some key things that look different now than they did when I was clutter free. number one, I don’t save up decluttering for the weekends. And this has been a huge shift for me because I would always think as I’ve…

Tonya Kubo (02:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:32)
pretty much always been a Monday through Friday, nine to five kind of person and who actually works nine to five. Let’s be clear, it’s eight to six. But I’ve pretty much been that person my whole life and I was just so busy during the week that I’m like, I’m just gonna save all this up for the weekends. And I don’t live like that anymore. Like as I am leaving a room, I’m like, are there things I can grab to throw away, to put away, to declutter?

Tonya Kubo (02:39)
Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (03:00)
Is that similar for you?

Tonya Kubo (03:03)
Yeah, I mean, I still think, you know, because my kids are younger, right? Like our house is always in some state of shambles, but you know, little things that I used to on Fridays clean off my desk, for instance. And now it’s just at the end of the day, right? It just is so much easier to take like a handful of stuff at the end of each day than to have to make multiple trips every Friday.

Kathi Lipp (03:06)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

It makes such a difference, right? Because I don’t know, there’s just something about like, I’ve saved this up for an entire week. You know, instead of just saying, okay, a little bit of time, a little bit of time, my brain has shifted into small amounts of decluttering instead of huge mountains of decluttering. Okay, so that’s number one. Tonya, we’re going back and forth. Tonya, what’s number two?

Tonya Kubo (03:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Kathi Lipp (03:54)
something that you don’t do now that you live clutter-free.

Tonya Kubo (03:57)
Okay, so this might seem silly, but I genuinely used to think unloading the dishwasher took 30 minutes and now I realize it takes about three and a half. So I don’t put off unloading the dishwasher till the weekend. Like seriously, I made it into such a big job in my head and I don’t need more.

Kathi Lipp (04:11)
Right?

Yeah, yes,

I feel like doing the dishes could take a half hour if you’ve got a lot of dishes piled up if you have things that need to be soaked like, you know, deep, deep scrub. Right.

Tonya Kubo (04:24)
Right, but I didn’t say doing the dishes, Kathi. I just

said unload the dishwasher.

Kathi Lipp (04:30)
just thinking maybe that’s why your brain was playing tricks on you and here’s what I know is when you when you unload the dishes here’s the magical thing it’s easier to load the dishes I know that seems like it should be obvious but our cluttery people will get that

Tonya Kubo (04:42)
Right.

Yeah, no, exactly, exactly.

Kathi Lipp (04:49)
Yeah, okay. Number three, I don’t stand next to the gas pump while it’s filling up. I, okay, so I think a lot of our cluttering friends will get this. I went, those small moments, like just like you were talking about with the microwave, I unload the dishwasher in the two and a half minutes that my, or I at least get it started in the two and a half minutes that my oatmeal is cooking.

Tonya Kubo (05:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:18)
And

so now I am married to somebody who does quiet contemplation while his coffee is warming up. And I’m like, you know what, we just live different lives. while I’m pumping my gas, I clean out the car. I just grab a few things. I throw them into the garbage. I feel like that’s free garbage. Garbage is such a big deal up here.

Tonya Kubo (05:24)
Hahaha

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yes,

it is free garbage. I am right there with you.

Kathi Lipp (05:45)
It makes me so happy. I can’t even stand it. Yeah, I’m never somebody who would bring garbage from my house to throw away. I’ve heard of people doing that. I know. But if I’ve got a McDonald’s cup, that that’s going in the garbage while I’m pumping. It is I’m doing all the things and even like our truck takes a long time to fill up. I have been known to we have a like a hand vac in the truck.

Tonya Kubo (05:53)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yup.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:14)
and I’ve been known to like vacuum things out while I’m doing, yeah, it makes me so happy I can’t even stand it. Okay, but I’m doing, what the core concept behind that is it just takes a moment to make a small difference. And like you just said with the unloading dishwasher and even with the, I don’t save up decluttering for the weekends. If I can do a little bit each day, man, the weekends can be for.

Tonya Kubo (06:17)
Nice.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:42)
fun or bigger projects or things like that. Okay, number four, Tonya, what’s something that you don’t do now that you’re living clutter free?

Tonya Kubo (06:44)
Mm-hmm.

I don’t go shopping when I’m tired, hungry, or frustrated.

Kathi Lipp (06:56)
That’s my favorite time to go shopping. Okay, tell me more. Right.

Tonya Kubo (06:58)
It’s everybody’s favorite time to go shopping.

Right. But I mean, something that I learned early on in my clutter free journey is that when I’m tired, I’m hungry or I’m frustrated, my tolerance, like my my impulse control is lower and my desire to soothe is higher. And so I feel like everything I see at the store is going to make me feel better. And it is not.

Kathi Lipp (07:16)
Yeah.

Mmm, good.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (07:26)
to make me feel better. I am still going to leave the store tired, hungry, and frustrated so I may as well just solve those problems before I go.

Kathi Lipp (07:33)
Okay, can I tell you how I’m even worse at this and it’s something I need to correct in my own life. So I go to the store, which is a chore, right? That is an errand. Right. And I feel like because I have done that, even when I was living in San Jose and things were like five minutes, like, look at me checking things off of my list. I deserve a little treat, a little treaty treat. Can we just say that shopping and Target

Tonya Kubo (07:42)
Yeah, it’s a jaunt for you. It’s a jaunt.

Hahaha

Kathi Lipp (08:02)
It’s so much better when you have Starbucks. And so like this is the thinking I have to unpack all the time in my cluttery journey. it just, makes a difference. It makes a difference when you say, and I just, but I try not to go, I pack snacks now in our car so that we are not so tempted.

Tonya Kubo (08:05)
I’m sure it is, I’m sure it is.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:32)
Like it’s okay every once in a while to go to Starbucks, but you don’t get Starbucks every time you leave the house. Yes, okay. And so tired, hungry, frustrated will lead you to, and here’s the other part of that that I think is you’re so wise because I’ll just throw things in my cart and I’ll say I’ll return them later if I’m frustrated. Like, you know, don’t go shopping for jeans when you’re tired, frustrated or hungry. That’s just the meanest thing you could do to yourself.

Tonya Kubo (08:32)
Yeah.

Mmm.

No.

Kathi Lipp (09:00)
but then I’ll buy all the jeans and then I’m like, now I have to take them back. And then like, I already have a return right now of a shirt and it’s, we’re recording this around Christmas time. And I’m like, the last thing I want to do on earth is go into a store and return a shirt. Like I can’t think of anything I want to do less. Okay. Number five, I don’t leave a room without scanning the room. So.

Tonya Kubo (09:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm

Kathi Lipp (09:27)
What that means is I don’t, I don’t just walk into another room. I will walk into another room, but I will grab the dish that’s on my desk. I will grab the shirt that needs to be returned. Can you tell I’m going through stuff? I will grab the jacket that needs to be hung downstairs. And here’s why I think that this matters. Even if I’m just going into Roger’s office, which is still on the top of the floor.

I’ll move those things to the top of the stairs so that I used to think if I’m gonna do something, I need to do it all the way. And no, I just need to push it forward. I need to push that chore forward. And that makes a huge difference. It’s like, even if I can’t unload the entire dishwasher while my oatmeal is cooking, I’m pushing it forward enough and I’m yelling up to Roger,

Tonya Kubo (10:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:26)
The dishes are clean, I’m just not done yet. And so he knows not to put dirty dishes in there. But if you can push it forward, then the next time you’re reheating your coffee, you can push it forward another minute and you might get it done. And so scanning a room, seeing what can I push into place? Because here’s what I know, if I leave it all until I have time, then I’m gonna spend half a day going up and down the stairs. And that sounds like my worst nightmare, I hate that stuff.

Tonya Kubo (10:29)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (10:56)
Yeah, okay. So we have gone through our top five. We’re gonna take a quick break, pay some bills. We’re gonna come back and Tonya is gonna talk about how she doesn’t apologize. I can’t wait to hear about how you do this. Teach me, Obi-Wan. We’ll be right back. Okay, guys, we are back with 10 things I don’t do now that I live clutter free. So Tonya, you say you don’t apologize. For what?

Tonya Kubo (11:23)
I

apologize for the condition of my house.

Kathi Lipp (11:26)
So tell me more. Tell me how I can get brave and be really like, just come on in.

Tonya Kubo (11:33)
well, just stop doing it. I mean, that’s how I did it, right? It was like a cold turkey. Like, I think there was a bit of a transition of where I would say, I probably should apologize for the state of my house, but I won’t. But I just don’t. And, you know, some people come in and say stuff and some people don’t, and I don’t really care. Because what I realize is we all have a different standard. You know, I used to apologize. And I realized that a lot of people

Kathi Lipp (11:37)
wow.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:03)
Like, first of all, I would apologize after spending hours doing a crisis clean because I knew other people would come in and like, and feel like my house was in complete disarray. And I was like, why am I acting like I didn’t just kill myself to make this house look nicer? And then I got to where, you know what? What do I care? mean, people come in, sometimes people are like, wow, you must be really busy. I am. That’s not untrue. I am really busy.

Kathi Lipp (12:13)
Mmm.

Right, right.

It’s a great friend test, right? Can we hang? Can we hang? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:33)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I’m just

like, there’s nothing they could say that’s probably not true to some degree. And I’ve had like repair guys come in, it’s funny, is because the repair guys will come in and our front room doesn’t have flooring. We tore up the flooring and then building costs went up so we have not replaced the flooring. And they’ll go to put the booties on them like, yeah, that’s cute. You don’t have to do that here. And they’ll look around and they’re like, okay.

Kathi Lipp (12:49)
All right. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:01)
Every now and then they’ll say, are you sure? Like, yeah, no, we’re good here.

Kathi Lipp (13:06)
Yeah.

Well, it’s so true. Our lives are all in transition, right? And when you have kids, the amount of day-to-day clutter goes up exponentially. Or maybe you’re in the midst of a big project. You know, I’ll never forget during the launch of Clutter Free, book, the state my house was in. It was like, we can’t take any pictures. And just recently,

Tonya Kubo (13:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:35)
Tenneil who manages our social media said, Kathi, can we get a video of you pushing in a chair? And right now we’re in Christmas crazies. I’m like, it would take me 45 minutes to get to a place to push in a chair. Right, it’s, yeah, because there’s all the fudge making supplies right there, yeah. So are you really, are you using marshmallow fluff in it?

Tonya Kubo (13:45)
No. To push in the chair. You’re like, “‘Cause I can’t get to the chair to push it in.”

Yes, I’m making fudge this weekend too. Anyway, I am.

I am using marshmallow fluff in it. I took a whole class on how to make fudge using marshmallow fluff. It was fun.

Kathi Lipp (14:05)
I saw that I saw that well,

I saw the fudge class. I didn’t know that there was the marshmallow fluff. Yeah, I’m very excited I’m just using a recipe off the internet But as you know, we live next to not next to you know half I don’t know 20 minutes away from a gourmet chocolate shop, which is the only Yeah, they’re a whiner They ship they’re so good but also let’s just say their fudge has gourmet prices and I’m like

Tonya Kubo (14:16)
Mm-hmm.

Little John’s, they ship. Little John’s, you should order from Little John’s.

Yes

Kathi Lipp (14:35)
How much would it cost for me to do this? And Roger’s like, we can buy their other stuff. We never have to buy fudge again. And I was like, I’m an indentured fudge servant now. Got it. Okay. Okay. You know what? It’s good. Hey, speaking of fudge, number seven, I don’t buy all the gear for hobbies unless I have a pattern of doing the hobby. Because here’s what I’ve discovered, Tonya. You know what my hobby is? Buying the stuff for hobbies.

Tonya Kubo (14:44)
Yes, I am too.

Mmm.

I

was gonna say preparing to have a hobby.

Kathi Lipp (15:07)
So here’s what I said, know, like one of the recipes that I am preparing right now called for a candy thermometer. And I’m like, ugh.

Tonya Kubo (15:17)
I need that for the fudge recipe with the marshmallow fluff. You need a candy thermometer.

Kathi Lipp (15:20)
Okay, so here’s what I told

myself if I prepare three recipes right now that don’t require the the thermometer if I if I prepare these three Christmas gift II things then I am allowed to buy a Candy thermometer and I got one by the way Michaels has 30 % off coupons for a while now. So go check that out I got the I think it’s the Wilson one but

Tonya Kubo (15:34)
Mm-hmm.

Ew.

Kathi Lipp (15:49)
I cannot tell you how many hobbies I’ve invested in and had to keep that stuff because I invest I told myself I’ve invested so heavily I need to keep all this stuff. It just it doesn’t make sense and it’s not the right thing. So I no longer I need to have a pattern of Can I start this hobby with stuff I have or can I start this hobby for less than ten dollars? And if I find that I really enjoy it

Tonya Kubo (15:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:19)
Then I will keep going but I am NOT going to go I’ll just say my history is buying at a professional level and performing at an amateur level like it’s not good

Tonya Kubo (16:30)
I

know that feeling though. If I have the same paints and brushes that Bob Ross has, I will make the same pictures that Bob Ross made.

Kathi Lipp (16:37)
Right.

Right, right.

And you know, our friend Cheri Gregory, friend of the podcast, Cheri Gregory calls it buying to become and I have done that for years and years. Okay, Tonya, number eight.

Tonya Kubo (16:49)
Yeah.

Okay, I kind of stole from you because you said that you scan a room before you leave. Before I go to bed, I make a round through the house specifically for dirty dishes. And here’s my, if I made a round through my house for decluttering, I would never make it to bed. But I can make a pass through my teeny tiny house just for dirty dishes in about 25 minutes. And it makes my life so much easier that

Kathi Lipp (16:58)
Yeah. Yeah.

so smart.

No, of course not.

Hmm

Tonya Kubo (17:24)
Like, know, because all run into bulls, where are all the bulls? The bulls are in the kids’ room underneath the bed. Why are they underneath the bed? I actually can’t answer that question, but that is where I find them.

Kathi Lipp (17:33)
Okay, Tonya, we are missing a bowl right now. There are just two of us. There are just two of us. This giant glass bowl, we cannot find. Is it under Lily’s bed? That’s my question now.

Tonya Kubo (17:36)
Maybe it’s under my bed!

It’s probably under Lily’s bed, and this is the worst of it, right? Is the way that Abby’s bed works, it sits lower to the ground. So Abby shoves stuff underneath Lily’s bed too. It’s not even all Lily’s fault.

Kathi Lipp (17:52)
Ugh.

Poor Lily. I’m sorry Lily. I did not mean to throw you under the bus bus or the bed Okay, so you do so what 25 minutes that seems like a long time so break that down for me Really okay

Tonya Kubo (18:13)
It’s a lot of dishes in my kid’s room and a lot of

dishes by Mr. Kubo’s desk. So it’s two trips. Two to three trips from the girl’s room, two trips from Brian’s desk and then

Kathi Lipp (18:20)
Got it. So you’re having to make multiple trips. Got it. Okay. And then

And and you’re

loading you’re soaking all that. Okay, that makes more sense. Okay Okay, that makes total sense. And I think doing doing a round of dishes I really feel like when everything else in your life falls apart the two things that you need to stay on top of are dishes and laundry because Mm-hmm. Yeah

Tonya Kubo (18:49)
Yes and I will say just really quickly that 25 minutes

does include a good five minute temper tantrum of my gosh what is growing in this thing.

Kathi Lipp (19:00)
I love it. Yeah, the the the Dishes and laundry if you stay on top of those like I don’t care how crunchy your kitchen floor gets I don’t care, you know at the I would say the third thing but this doesn’t have to be done as Much is staying on top of bills. Those are the important things that if you fall behind on them It’s going to be super painful to recover from them

Tonya Kubo (19:01)
That’s in there too.

No.

Mm-hmm. yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:25)
But if you can stay on top of those three things, it takes almost the same amount of energy to mop the floor when it’s been a week or five weeks. Like, I don’t want you to have to go five weeks, but if you need to in a crisis, you can. And yeah, and also stay on top of your garbage and recycling. number nine. This is my last thing of things I don’t do now that I live clutter free.

Tonya Kubo (19:37)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:55)
Okay, I try not to I’m still working through this but I’m much better than I used to be I don’t compare my stuff to my friends stuff so Or stuff on social media. There is always a new thing That would make my life two percent easier or two percent better Not not my entire life if something made my entire life two percent better you bet I’m going to invest in that but like

Tonya Kubo (20:04)
Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:25)
Let’s say, know, my, my robot vacuum, there are now robot vacuums that you can control remotely. Like I could be at my mom’s house and now I could get that doesn’t make my life better enough to upgrade my robot. Like my robots fine. We get along. We, she does what she needs to do. I’m sorry. It’s normally a he. I don’t know why I said she, cause I like for all my domestic labor to be he’s.

Tonya Kubo (20:34)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:55)
Because I just think that’s fair But I Just because somebody else has something that has made their life Infamates Lee better. It doesn’t mean that I need to upgrade it. I I try when I see you wearing a cute sweater I’m not going to say you know what? need that cute sweater. I’m gonna I’m one of things I’m trying to do is go into my own closet

Tonya Kubo (21:09)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:22)
and see

my own cute sweaters and the things that make me happy. So I’m trying really hard to reframe what my friends have. And also that can be a form of jealousy. I can just say, you know what? I’m really happy that Tonya has that sweater. I think she looks great in it. She’s having fun with it. And it makes me happy to see her in it. And it doesn’t have to be, I don’t have to own it for it to bring me happiness. So trying to stay out of that comparison trap.

Tonya Kubo (21:33)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (21:52)
And I’m sure when you go into people’s houses that have floors, that can be hard.

Tonya Kubo (21:57)
I do have floor envy right now, I’m not gonna lie. If you’ve got luxury vinyl plank, I’m eyeballing your floors, let me tell ya.

Kathi Lipp (21:59)
I you do.

And I do have that upstairs and I wrestled over that decision for about two years And I’m so glad we pulled the trigger It’s so painful to get flooring done just because of all the moving and shifting and all that kind of stuff Okay, Tonya round out our list. Give us number ten. All right

Tonya Kubo (22:09)
Yeah, no.

It is.

My cluttery peeps will get this. I no longer gain comfort or security from having full shelves, full drawers, etc.

Kathi Lipp (22:33)
yeah, space scares us, doesn’t it? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (22:37)
Space is scary because space is scarcity and lack and my gosh what

if I don’t have enough. But if things are full even if they’re full of stuff that you haven’t worn in 22 years you believe you have enough clothes if for some reason they stopped making all clothing.

Kathi Lipp (22:48)
Right?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so Tonya, this is so interesting. A number of people on TikTok and other apps are doing a no buy 2025, right? And the conventional wisdom is declutter your closet so you can see what you have. And then, so you know what you have, because it is, it’s easier to see what you have when you have less stuff in your closet.

Tonya Kubo (23:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (23:22)
But I heard one woman, I thought this was so interesting. And I’m just gonna throw this out there for your reaction. She goes, I am not decluttering before my 2025. Because when I declutter, I feel like there is empty space. And I feel this urge to fill that space with shopping, with thrifting, with all these other things. So what she is doing is she is.

Tonya Kubo (23:39)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (23:50)
putting some of her clothes into another closet, including clothes she likes, so that she will, she remember, I’ve got more stuff. I don’t know, how does that hit you? I thought it was really interesting. Really.

Tonya Kubo (23:53)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I have a friend who does that actually. she has,

yeah, so she boxes up all of her extra stuff, even if it’s in the current season. And she has it all in like the rafters of her garage. But whenever she’s like, I wanna go shopping, she just goes and she takes a box down and she trades out pieces.

Kathi Lipp (24:10)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You know, I think it’s really interesting. And so I’m not saying one way is better than the other. I’m going to try the other closet boxing because yeah, when I pull out all my winter stuff, I’m so happy. I’m like, I never need to go shopping again. And then after about two weeks, I’m like, you know, people are really into these green grandpa sweaters and like, okay, Kathi, stop, stop, stop, stop.

Tonya Kubo (24:50)
Yeah,

see, and I’m the person, I want all of my clothing to be able to fit in this much of my closet. Like, I don’t wanna ever change anything out. I don’t wanna work that hard. I’m just so, like, I don’t wanna say lazy, but really it’s just like, that is just something that takes such a high level of perceived energy for me that I’m like, I’m good.

Kathi Lipp (24:56)
Yes, you.

Yeah.

Okay, see, even within our Cluttery community, we all have our own little quirks. And that’s why it’s okay for you to forge your own path, but think about the wisdom that will get you to the next space in your Clutter-free journey. I hope one of these has inspired you today. Tonya, thanks so much for hanging out with me.

Tonya Kubo (25:18)
We do.

Thanks for having me.

Kathi Lipp (25:37)
And friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter-free life you always wanted to live.

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