#626 The Hidden Trauma Behind Clutter: How to Start Healing Your Relationship with Possessions

#626 The Hidden Trauma Behind Clutter: How to Start Healing Your Relationship with Possessions

by | Jul 16, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

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626 The Hidden Trauma Behind Clutter: How to Start Healing Your Relationship with Possessions

Have you ever struggled to give things away without feeling guilty, even when the items have only a slight chance of being useful in the future?

That very question came from our Clutter Free Academy listeners. In this CFA Mail Bag episode, Kathi Lipp and co-host Tonya Kubo answer that question and more. They dive deep into the emotional aspects of decluttering, focusing on the guilt that often accompanies getting rid of items.
Kathi and Tonya explore the roots of this guilt, discussing how childhood experiences and ingrained perfectionism can contribute to cluttering behaviors in adulthood. They share personal anecdotes and practical strategies for overcoming these emotional barriers to decluttering.

Listeners will discover:

  • Why it’s important to question why we’re not using certain items
  • How being intentional about what we bring into our homes is crucial
  • When considering environmental impact should happen

Throughout the episode, Kathi and Tonya offer encouragement and practical advice for breaking free from the cycle of clutter and creating a more peaceful, organized living space.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.Tonyakubo.com

Information from the National Recording Preservation Board on Fibber McGee and Molly

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

Join our Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group

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To share your thoughts:

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Meet Our Guest 

 

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

 

Tonya Kubo Picture
Transcript

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with…

 

the co -host with the most, it is Tonya Kubo. Although, here’s the thing. It’s so funny. Somehow, people got onto a discussion about who their favorite guests were on Clutter free Academy. It is a horse race between Tonya Kubo and Roger Lipp. If I could pick two people for it to be a horse race in, yes.

 

Tonya Kubo (00:40.974)

Tonya Kubo (00:45.454)

It is.

 

Kathi (00:55.489)

If I had to, we could do this entire podcast with just the two of you and be just fine. Because I feel like you bring the heart of a cluttery person who has done some healing to this. And Roger brings the, I live with a cluttery person. And, but I, I, I learned an interesting fact about our friend Roger Lipp. So we were, I learned we were driving away from my mom’s house and

 

Tonya Kubo (00:59.854)

Hahaha

 

Tonya Kubo (01:18.926)

What did you learn?

 

Kathi (01:25.281)

know, when we leave town, it’s kind of hilarious, Tonya, because we’ve got our Yeti cooler and we’ve got a pretty small car. We’ve got, we just bring the Jeep usually back and forth. So we had the Yeti cooler, we had our Sam’s order, we had, you know, I bring food back and forth from my mom’s. And then we had some dog food, like all this stuff. And my mom said, it looks like Fibber McGee is pulling out.

 

Tonya Kubo (01:28.398)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (01:44.142)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (01:54.625)

which I guess was a radio show in the 1940s. Right. Yeah, a little cultural context from 80 years ago. And so Roger says, I’ve been called that all my life. And I’m like, wait, what?

 

Tonya Kubo (01:57.966)

I’ve heard the name but I had no idea what it meant. So thank you for explaining for me. I appreciate this. Thanks.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:13.774)

Okay, now we need to know why.

 

Kathi (02:16.289)

Okay, so, you know, Roger’s mom got remarried in like the the 70s. And his new father, which is kind of funny. His name was Dr. Dobson. Now, not the Dr. Dobson. Yeah, yes, exactly. But this was Dr. Dobson who was a pastor. And he’s very interesting. He actually shook the hand of Einstein because they were both at college at the same time. Right? Right? So interesting.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:28.526)

Okay, not the Dr. Dobson.

 

Kathi (02:46.177)

But I know. Roger didn’t know that. I asked him. I asked him because I knew that they were at, I think it was Princeton at the same time. I had done a little research. Yeah, anywho. Yeah. And let’s just say Roger’s stepdad, much older than Roger’s stepmom. Little bit of a scandal, but you know, kind of anyway. That’s what keeps things interesting. Anyway, so Dr. Dean was his name.

 

Tonya Kubo (02:46.414)

Why isn’t Roger pulling that out at pub trivia?

 

Tonya Kubo (02:58.67)

Huh, okay.

 

Kathi (03:15.425)

Never raised his kids. They were always raised in like a missionary school things like that so Roger was the first kid he had ever really lived with and He thought Roger was this wild child and I’m like, my goodness. Tell me all the good stories He goes, yeah, he’d be up really late at night and I’m like tell me tell me more cuz I have no scandal on Roger He goes yeah working on that photography equipment. I’m like

 

Tonya Kubo (03:21.518)

Mmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (03:44.238)

he was in the dark room late at night alone with negatives.

 

Kathi (03:44.865)

Okay. Develop developing things for the yearbook and the newspaper. Yeah. So anywho, all this to say, Fibber McGee, so apparently Roger has been called cluttery his whole life. I have seen no evidence of this really in his life, but I just I, I, it felt good.

 

to know, you know, maybe we have a common core. This is way off topic. Okay.

 

Tonya Kubo (04:18.958)

off topic because today is my favorite episode. Okay, I do. I was like…

 

Kathi (04:24.641)

You love these episodes. I love them too, but you get a little bit of sick joy, I would just say.

 

Tonya Kubo (04:30.862)

Well, here’s what I love. So we’re doing a mailbag episode, which, and the mailbag episodes are my favorite. And the reason they are my favorite is twofold. Number one, I love, love, love, love, love that we can take the real life current experiences of our Clear Free Academy members and bring them onto the show to help other people who aren’t on Facebook.

 

Kathi (04:35.201)

Yep.

 

Kathi (04:54.945)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (04:58.766)

didn’t know we have a Facebook group or any of that. Like I love that. I also love the message that we send to our Clutterfree Academy members who ask these questions that they’re really not alone. Because if they were the only person on the planet who had this problem, who had this question, we would not be devoting an entire episode to it.

 

Kathi (05:12.289)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (05:20.161)

Right. And I love what you’re saying there, to feel less alone. Because we all sit in our houses, we only get invited over to perfect houses. And so we assume that we’re the only one without a perfect house. And just by our Facebook group statistics alone, which is over 15 ,000 people, I would challenge you to sit, I would challenge your thinking on that, that you’re the only one, because you’re not.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:31.214)

Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:41.262)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (05:47.726)

Yeah, exactly. So today’s question, I feel like speaks to the heart of where many people are when they join Clutterfree Academy. So I find that we have a few composite new members. There is the person who is like me, feeling suffocated by their stuff to the point that actually being unhoused sounds liberating.

 

Kathi (06:02.465)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:15.502)

Like the idea of having nothing but a backpack sounds like the ultimate liberation, which, go ahead.

 

Kathi (06:22.977)

My mom, Tonya, has a button that says potential bag lady. Like, yeah, she just, I think especially having two teenagers, she was like, just go and, you know, and by the way, we’re not making fun of unhoused people at all, friends, please, please, please. But I think everybody’s had, I think that’s why we like hotels so much.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:29.71)

Yeah!

 

Tonya Kubo (06:37.262)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:44.27)

No.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:49.966)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (06:51.201)

I think that’s why we like the thought of doing an RV or something like that. I think a lot of Cloré people have those same ideals.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:54.798)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (06:58.574)

Right. And so to the point, right, because what I’m really getting at is so overwhelmed that you just want to escape. We have that person and they want to escape their living circumstances. And then we have the person who comes who actually has a moral struggle. Like they’re not sure. They know that other people have a problem with the condition of their house or other people have a problem with their cluttery ways, but they’re not actually sure that other people are right. Because

 

Kathi (07:05.921)

bright.

 

Yes.

 

Kathi (07:27.713)

What do you mean by that?

 

Tonya Kubo (07:28.745)

Because in their heart of hearts, they think they’re doing good in the world by keeping hold of things. And so that’s where this question comes from. Because I know, like the outsiders who are not cluttery assume that, you know, our group is full of people who just can’t keep house, which you know how I feel about that. And that’s an episode for another day. But this is the person who says, okay, I hear what you’re saying that

 

Kathi (07:34.913)

Mmm, yes.

 

Yes.

 

Kathi (07:48.481)

Yeah, right.

 

Tonya Kubo (07:57.006)

I, you know, that it makes sense and it’s a good idea to have a house that’s tidy, that’s peace -filled, that my family enjoys. And yet, I genuinely cannot give anything away if it has even a modicum, even like a little itty bitty hair’s breadth chance of being useful at some point in time to someone, even if that someone’s not me.

 

What do I do when I can’t give anything away without feeling guilty? That’s the question. And it’s a doozy, right, Kathi? Because there is the decluttering aspect. There is the internal emotional aspect of the guilt. And I would even argue the shame of releasing stuff.

 

Kathi (08:25.985)

Right.

 

Kathi (08:35.329)

Hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (08:48.686)

And we’ve worked a lot of times with members who the shame and the guilt comes from they spent money on that thing, right? That they’re not using. But this is different. This is I can see that somewhere, somehow somebody might need an extra cord from a slow cooker and therefore I cannot get rid of the cord. So that’s the question that I’m bringing to you, OYZ1. Hit me with your knowledge now.

 

Kathi (08:56.577)

Right.

 

Kathi (09:08.481)

Mm -hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Well, this is going to be a mutual knowledge thing. Okay. So can I tell you, I’m just gonna throw up confessions here. Okay. So, okay, I am a kid from the 80s, right? You know, Brat Pack, all that kind of stuff, like hardcore 80s. Yes, I know. I love them. And

 

Tonya Kubo (09:21.326)

Yeah

 

Tonya Kubo (09:30.734)

Sure, I’m all up for confessions.

 

Kathi (09:44.929)

But I grew up in a very black and white time. Like, excuse me. Like, if you were really hungry, you would eat those green peppers.

 

Tonya Kubo (09:54.094)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (10:05.397)

I was like, and we all could finish your sentence for you. If you were really hungry, you would eat what I put in front of you.

 

Kathi (10:08.481)

Yes. Right, right. And, you know, if you if you, you know, you shouldn’t have to buy clothes, because you should be happy with what you have. It very black and white thinking. And, you know, to be grateful for everything you have, which I agree with, Tonya, I don’t actually know a lot of people. I feel like

 

that express their gratitude for what they have more than I do. And I’m not saying that I don’t think I’m a big bragger on here, but I just know like my intense gratitude for what I have. And that can also be a trap. Like,

 

Tonya Kubo (10:42.734)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (10:52.718)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (10:58.318)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (11:01.249)

If you know, here’s a shirt and it has a bunch of stains on it. Okay, so I’m going to work really hard to get those stains out and I got those stains out, but now it’s a little frayed. But you know what? I’m going to, I’m going to, I’m going to do this, this, this, this. And then finally it gets to the place where that shirt can’t be used anymore. Well, I should be able to use that as a rag, even though it’s an ineffective way of cleaning my house. And I hate cleaning my house.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:08.494)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:23.662)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (11:30.657)

But I should, I should, I should. The person who is struggling to give things away without guilt, who I contend towards that, is we have got a brain full of shoulds. And maybe we grew up in a house where we were being corrected a lot. Like, okay, can I give a silly example without throwing my mom under the bus?

 

Tonya Kubo (11:32.942)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:38.03)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (11:45.902)

Mmm.

 

Kathi (12:00.769)

So yesterday, I was helping her clean her living room and there was just a plastic water bottle there. And I said, are you using this to water plants? And she goes, no, I think, you know, it just got left there by somebody. And I said, okay. So I go to the sink to dump it out. She goes, but water a plant with it, Kathi. And like, there’s…

 

Tonya Kubo (12:00.814)

Sure.

 

Tonya Kubo (12:18.862)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (12:31.809)

So it’s just funny, it’s a funny example, right? But you may have grown up in a house that was like that about everything. Like, okay, when that shirt’s no longer good, then we’re gonna give it to goodwill, even if it has stains on it, because somebody should be grateful for it, and somebody should wear it. And…

 

Tonya Kubo (12:34.606)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (12:41.806)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (12:57.185)

I have always been under the impression, or not always, but definitely in the last 20 years, if I wouldn’t want to wear it, why should I expect somebody else to want to wear it? If I wouldn’t eat it, why should I expect somebody else to want to eat it? I’ve had to change my thinking on that and say, it’s not a bet. We can be in such a poverty mindset that it’s impossible for us to give things away or to

 

Tonya Kubo (13:21.23)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (13:26.177)

throw things away. And, you know, like, okay, maybe that, you know, it’s that toaster oven, that if somebody spent $30 repairing it, that it could be useful. But most people don’t know how to repair a toaster oven, don’t know where to start with that. And yes, there are things you could do. And if you’re one of those naturally handy people, yay, but most of us aren’t.

 

Tonya Kubo (13:28.846)

Yeah…

 

Tonya Kubo (13:35.79)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (13:56.321)

And we have to figure out where we’re going to put our time, effort, and energy. And all of this is trade -offs. There is no… So many of us, I struggle with this mightily, are closet perfectionists. We don’t look like we’re perfectionists because if you came into our house, you know I’m not a perfectionist, but I am. I’m trapped in the way I should be doing things and I’m not doing things.

 

Tonya Kubo (13:57.038)

right?

 

Tonya Kubo (14:01.55)

Mm -hmm.

 

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (14:23.777)

and I live with that guilt all the time. And Tony, I want to hear your response to this. We’re going to take a quick break. We’re going to go get some bills paid. We’re going to come right back. And I want to hear your response to that perfectionistic mindset and maybe the people we grew up with contributing to that.

 

Tonya Kubo (14:34.062)

Yeah

 

Tonya Kubo (14:38.638)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (14:44.046)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (14:46.561)

Okay friends, we are back. Tonya is going to give us all her wisdom about how perfectionism really can be one of the main reasons why it’s hard to give away clutter, items, et cetera, without guilt. Go Tonya.

 

Tonya Kubo (15:04.59)

Alrighty. So it’s interesting this perfectionist idea, because I definitely agree with it. And I, there’s so much wrapped up in there. And I think your point is, you know, so much of our adult cluttery ways are steeped in some form of childhood trauma. And I’m not saying like capital T front page headline trauma.

 

Kathi (15:30.625)

Goodbye.

 

No.

 

Tonya Kubo (15:33.998)

I am saying I’m really talking about the trauma that just builds up. It’s like the thing that hurts your feelings but maybe didn’t hurt your brother’s feelings. That sort of stuff, right? Like you just, you carried it differently.

 

Kathi (15:45.185)

It’s, you can be, yeah, you can be traumatized just by imperfect parenting. And that, it’s something you still have to work out. It’s okay, you know, because we were all raised by imperfect parents. That’s what happened.

 

Tonya Kubo (15:52.558)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (16:01.71)

Exactly. So with that, I think that we also have to come to some point where we say, who do I really want to be? Right? What like what’s mine to carry? What do I want to carry? And I know for me, that cluttering journey has really been about going, huh, I don’t have to own this, right? Like this wasn’t even my junk to own in the first place.

 

Kathi (16:14.881)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (16:18.849)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (16:31.809)

That’s right.

 

Tonya Kubo (16:32.101)

And so, yes, there’s the perfectionistic part of wanting to do things right that our Clegary folks really, really struggle with. But I think the point you’re actually making is sometimes it’s not our own perfectionism, but it’s perfectionism that was projected onto us.

 

Kathi (16:51.041)

Mm -hmm. If you’re going to do it the right way, if you’re going to do, you know, there’s a moral attachment to being thrifty and reusing banks and a moral attachment to spending less money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And some of those are good things. You know, I believe in those things, but also they can be guilt traps.

 

Tonya Kubo (17:04.462)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (17:19.521)

They can be deep traps. And also, lots of times, Tonya, you may be done with something, but like we were talking about earlier, you still see the value in it. So you want to give it to me so that I can get the value out of it. I one time had somebody at church who said, Kathi,

 

Tonya Kubo (17:31.278)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (17:39.726)

Right.

 

Kathi (17:47.041)

I can’t use these hundred baskets anymore. And I’m not even joking, a hundred different baskets. 100 baskets. There were more than that, but it was at a minimum of a hundred. But I’ve left them here for you because I know you could do something with them. And in my brain is like, do you just want me to take them to the dump? Like, what do you want me to do? And it was, she was putting,

 

Tonya Kubo (17:50.734)

Mm -hmm. 100 baskets.

 

Tonya Kubo (18:06.414)

Like what?

 

Kathi (18:15.649)

a judgment on me to say, basically, if you’re a good person, you would figure out how to let these not go to waste. In my thinking, it was like, lady, you should not have collected 100 baskets. And yeah, and this was a lovely lady and she has since passed. And I think sometimes, like I’ve had some relatives where I’ve had to say, hey, I can take that from you, but you have to give me

 

full autonomy to deal with it in the way I want. You’re never going to ask me, where is this? Do you display it? And those relatives couldn’t do it. They needed, it’s a control issue, right? And I struggle with control issues as well. And I’ve had to learn that if I’m going to give something away, I have to be okay with whatever happens to it. And that is a hard place for people to be.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:10.574)

Mm -hmm. That’s true.

 

Kathi (19:15.649)

But also I need to make sure that I am controlling my own environment and not letting things seep in that or not refusing to give things away because of this mindset. You know, I am very quick to say, hey, I’m not using this. I’m going to give it away. I now I am. But I used

 

Tonya Kubo (19:32.206)

Mm -hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:42.318)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (19:45.185)

I used to have this guilt of like, I have to get the value out of it. I have to get the money out of it. Like I have to hold onto that shirt because I haven’t worn it enough. Well, why haven’t I worn it enough? Because it actually, you know, maybe it was itchy. And if it’s, so I think that’s the next step when you’re like, why am I not using this item? Is it because I’ve

 

Tonya Kubo (19:50.286)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (19:56.206)

Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (20:03.566)

Mmm.

 

Kathi (20:13.153)

outgrown it, either physically or emotionally or mentally, well then it’s okay to give to somebody else or if it’s not usable, it’s okay for it to go into the landfill. Every human gets a certain amount of landfill stuff and I would challenge you to look at your landfill consumption on the

 

acquiring end instead of the getting rid of it. That’s where you can do the most impact. So thinking about something before you purchase it, asking yourself, why am I no longer using this? You know, I had some, some pants that I was like, I’m just not wearing them. I’m just not wearing them. And so I’m like, okay, I’m going to pick them up. Why am I not wearing them? Well, when I picked them up, I realized, Tonya, what I kept doing.

 

Tonya Kubo (20:43.437)

Mm -hmm.

 

Mmm.

 

Kathi (21:10.209)

was I kept pulling them out of the closet, seeing they had this weird stain on them, and putting them back in the closet. This was not a good system for me, right?

 

Tonya Kubo (21:16.654)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:21.582)

Can I just tell you I have lived that exact same system, Kathi? It is okay. I feel you right now.

 

Kathi (21:24.161)

Right? Right? Yes! And so, but these are good fitting pants and I like how they look on me. I just don’t like a giant stain. So what am I doing? I’m dyeing those pants tomorrow.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:32.27)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:40.286)

I was just gonna ask if dying fixes that.

 

Kathi (21:42.849)

It does. It does. You have to go with darker color. So for me, it’s navy blue. For Tonya Kubo, it’s black. But you know, if you go that darker color.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:46.766)

Okay.

 

Tonya Kubo (21:52.238)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (22:04.641)

I’ll just be honest, sometimes we’re trying too hard to save things that don’t need to be saved. Maybe the taco casserole that I made the other day that I was trying a new recipe on and Roger said, he’s very appreciative of my cooking, but he goes, it tastes like there’s a piece of Wonder Bread in the middle of it. And he was not down with that texture. And I tried to save it a couple of times. Yeah, sometimes you just need to give up and it’s okay to give up, try to fix something. But if you can’t,

 

Tonya Kubo (22:08.75)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:19.214)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:24.878)

Got it.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:29.262)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (22:33.729)

fix it, don’t keep it. I want you to hear me clearly. I’m not screaming at Tonya. I’m screaming at all of my friends who are like, well, at some point there’s magically going to need to be a use for that. You know, I don’t know why I have 300 solo cups, but there’s going to be a day where somebody is going to need those 300 solo cups or, you know, maybe it’s today. Maybe your kid’s school needs them. I don’t know what the

 

Tonya Kubo (22:39.758)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (22:49.87)

and

 

Kathi (23:03.713)

The rules are about red solo cups like at a kids school. Is it too evocative of a college party? Okay.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:09.454)

No, nobody knows, they’re just disposable cups that everybody uses.

 

Kathi (23:12.353)

Okay, good, good, good, good. But if you cannot figure out a use for that item, if you can’t figure out somebody who would gleefully receive that item, and here’s the test, Tonya. If you put it up on a buy nothing group and you get no takers, it’s probably junk.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:31.118)

Yep, that makes sense.

 

Kathi (23:32.641)

It’s a really quick test. I want us to think about, it’s not about I’ve wasted the money. I’ve gotten my money’s worth, if I wore it one time or 100 times. And now it’s time for somebody else. Cluttery people are so generous. So it’s time for somebody else to get the use out of it. If you’ve only worn it one time,

 

Tonya Kubo (23:44.814)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (23:56.75)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (24:02.337)

then it probably still has a lot of life left in it and somebody else will use it. But if you’ve worn it a hundred times, it may be time for it to go into clothing recycling. It’s okay, I promise.

 

Tonya Kubo (24:13.102)

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (24:16.782)

That makes sense. And I think, you know, part of me feels like, well, we say that all the time. And then the other part of me feels like, you know what? I know early in my journey, I couldn’t hear it enough. I needed the constant reminder that it is not my job to single -handedly save the environment by never putting another thing in a landfill. It is not my job to be the example of stewardship.

 

Kathi (24:29.281)

Mm -hmm. Right.

 

Kathi (24:40.737)

Right, right.

 

Tonya Kubo (24:46.83)

for the entire planet by retaining everything I ever bought or ever received. So thank you. Thank you for that because even now so many years later, it’s still a helpful reminder.

 

Kathi (24:53.057)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (25:01.281)

Well, and I really want to challenge us to think, for some reason, us Cluttery people think about the environment after the purchase. And so to think about before we purchase what, you know, you know my favorite motto from World War I, use it up, wear it out, make do, do without.

 

Tonya Kubo (25:14.157)

Yes.

 

Kathi (25:29.313)

That is so much about not bringing new things into our home. And it’s okay. We need to buy things sometimes. I bought a tank top yesterday because right now it is a 110 in Sacramento and I needed a tank top. I’m fine with that. I felt like that was a good purchase, something I’ll be able to use for years to come. But

 

Tonya Kubo (25:35.31)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (25:51.438)

Yeah.

 

Kathi (25:58.657)

I thought about it before I bought it. This has been the biggest change I really do like in my clutter free journey after seriously decluttering my house is being so intentional and thoughtful about what I bring into the house. So if you’re feeling guilty about getting rid of things, I always think about it like this. It’s kind of a reset. So if you have a bunch of clothes in your closet that you’re not using,

 

Tonya Kubo (26:22.222)

Mm.

 

Kathi (26:26.785)

but you go to your closet every day and you’re like, there should be something here, but there’s nothing I want to wear. It is time to get rid of some of those things in your closet. So you actually have an accurate picture of what you have and can say, you know what? I don’t have a cream tank top. And that would actually go with a lot of things I have. Look at that. I don’t have a pair of jeans that I feel amazing in.

 

Everybody needs a pair of jeans that they just feel like is a banger. And so, but you’ll never know that when you have 75 things in there that you never wear. And that’s what I want for you. So get that accurate inventory of what you actually have. This could be for food. This could be for gardening equipment. This could be for your closet. This could be for your linens. Because otherwise what we end up doing, Tonya, is we go to the store and you’re like,

 

Tonya Kubo (26:57.55)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:06.414)

so true.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:21.678)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (27:23.809)

Yeah, I remember that the last time I went to my closet, there was nothing to wear. So I think I just need to buy some new clothes, some new clothes, right? And then what we end up doing is buying things that we don’t need. And then we hold on to things because, well, I spent so much money on it’s this vicious cycle. And we’re going to break the cycle by being intentional about what we bring into our home.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:28.782)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:32.558)

Yeah.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:37.806)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (27:48.814)

I love that. I love that.

 

Kathi (27:50.209)

Yeah. Okay. Well, Tonya, I love these mailbag issues because I feel like we get to go deeper. We get to go to the heart of it. We get to go to our own histories and our own coming up and thinking about this. And guys, when we talked about that trauma, I want you to hear me that you…

 

Tonya Kubo (28:03.214)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (28:13.537)

I love what you said, Tonya. It’s the lowercase t. It’s the things that make us act in ways that we wouldn’t want to act and make us use decisions. And guys, here’s the thing. I know that I have done this for my kids. If my kids have kids, they’ll do it for their kids. This is part of the cycle of life. But we also know that we can break those cycles.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:17.486)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:24.814)

Right.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:41.966)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (28:42.497)

And when I break a cycle, even as the adult parent of adults, it does trickle down. They can see changes in our lives and I think that’s beautiful. Tonya, thank you so much for being with me today.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:49.102)

Mm -hmm.

 

Tonya Kubo (28:56.462)

Thanks for having me, Kathi.

 

Kathi (28:58.337)

And guys, thank you for being with us. If you are struggling in this and you are not part of our Facebook group, can I really encourage you to go over there and check it out? And I’ve heard from a couple of people recently, well, I tried to join and I was not let in. Let me tell you, you probably didn’t answer some questions and that’s okay. But just know that there are questions to ask and answer, there are questions to answer. And if you’re not crazy,

 

Tonya Kubo (29:19.438)

Yes.

 

Tonya Kubo (29:24.718)

Mm -hmm.

 

Kathi (29:28.129)

We will let you in or if you’re all kind of crazy, we’ll let you in. It’s all good friends. Okay Yeah, so join us over at Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy where we talk about these kind of issues all the time and we can support each other because we love to hear what your answers to these questions are as well because we get more wisdom from everybody You’ve been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now go create the Clutter Free life. You were always designed to live

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by | Jul 9, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, DIY, Getting Started, How to, Organizing, Podcast, Recipe, Recipes, tips and ideas | 0 comments

Listen Now

625 – Meal Planning Made Easy with AI: Kathi’s Insider Tips

Have you ever struggled with this age-old question?
“What’s for dinner?”

In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi and Roger Lipp take you on a journey through the incredible world of AI-driven meal planning. Say goodbye to dinner stress and discover how ethical, efficient AI tools can change your kitchen routine for the better. Join Kathi and Roger as they share their experiences with AI, making home management simpler and more effective than ever. with tips and ideas such as:

  • How to use AI to generate delicious, healthy, and budget-friendly recipes.
  • Tips for making AI your ultimate meal-planning assistant, especially for families with dietary restrictions.
  • The game-changing method to create categorized shopping lists through AI

As promised, here are the Meal Planning prompts that Kathi and Roger use to direct AI to plan their meals:

  • “Create a 7-day meal plan for a family of four, focusing on balanced nutrition and variety.” 
  • “Suggest five quick and healthy weeknight dinner recipes using chicken breast.” 
  • “Plan a vegetarian meal prep for the week, including breakfast, lunch, and dinner options.” 
  • “Generate a grocery list for a week’s worth of Mediterranean-style meals.” 
  • “Recommend three easy breakfast ideas for someone trying to increase their protein intake.” 
  • “Design a meal plan for someone with diabetes, emphasizing low glycemic index foods.” 
  • “Suggest ways to incorporate more leafy greens into my daily meals.” 
  • “Create a budget-friendly meal plan for a college student, using simple ingredients.” 
  • “Plan a week of meals that can be prepared in 30 minutes or less that my kids would like.” 
  • “Suggest creative ways to use leftover chicken, carrots, onions and French bread to reduce food waste in my meal planning.” 

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

Claude AI

ChatGPT

Dollar Tree Dinner ideas

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

Join our Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group

What is holding you back from trying AI in meal planning?

Share them in the comments!

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To share your thoughts:

  • Leave a note in the comment section below.
  • Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

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Meet Our Guest 

 

Roger Lipp

Roger is a productivity and quality engineer for a Fortune 50 company.

Roger helps teams reach their full productivity potential by teaching them the practical and simple steps to reach their goals. Roger and his wife, author Kathi Lipp, teach communicators how to share their message through social media and email marketing.

He and Kathi coauthored Happy Habits for Every Couple with Harvest House Publishers.

Tonya Kubo Picture
Transcript

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy, where our goal is to help you live with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my AI expert. Okay, so he would not consider himself an AI expert. He is an AI practitioner, but in this household, he is the AI expert. It’s Roger Lipp. Hey, Rog. We do a lot.

Roger (00:33.652)

Hello.

Kathi (00:37.955)

We spend a lot of time thinking about AI in this house.

Roger (00:42.004)

Yeah, I’m thinking about getting business cards made up with AI expert or AI practitioner, yes.

Kathi (00:46.787)

AI practitioner. Yes, yes. Now, I know that there are going to be some people who are listening to this who are like freaked out that we’re talking about AI. I’m just going to give a quick disclaimer. If you are living in the modern world, you are already interacting with AI probably every single day, probably in a bunch of different ways. We just, we spend a lot of time, especially on the writing side of what we do.

talking about how to ethically use AI in our business, in our creativity, but that has leaked over into our personal life. Hasn’t it, Roger? I mean, we’re using it. Yeah. So.

Roger (01:26.964)

100 % we yeah, yeah, we use it all. I I used AI the other night to identify an animal that I wasn’t able to get a picture of, but I described it to the AI and told it where I lived and it identified it. It’s probably a marmot. OK. A marmot.

Kathi (01:39.235)

Right?

Kathi (01:47.651)

a marmot, which I knew that that was an animal or a Vegemite spread in, you know, something. But yeah, it’s fascinating, right? Where, where I, as I, you know, two years ago, when something came up, I would Google and I’d be like, you know, I describing it in Google, and then you kind of have to go read the stuff and everything. And what AI is doing is kind of gathering all of that for you.  And with all the conditions you’ve put into that and said, here’s what it most likely is. Did it give you any second tertiary animals? Yeah, right. Yeah. It was pretty, it was pretty convinced that.

Roger (02:26.996)

I could have asked for some backup just in case. It was pretty convinced, but I may go back and see, all right, if it’s not a marmot, what might it be? Could it be a fox? Could it be this or that? I don’t know. It was pretty big.

Kathi (02:40.995)

Yeah.

So, you know, some of the ways that we’ve used AI have been in banking, in planning our garden, in household projects, Aaron’s List. I mean, the list goes on and on. But today I want to talk about meal planning. Because I just want to say, the longer I meal plan, the more I recognize that this is probably the most complex household chore that I have. And, you know, I don’t think we give meal planning and cooking the props that it deserves. I know that almost every woman I know struggles with it and some guys, but let’s just be honest, in the Lipp household, this pretty much falls to me. But you also have to capture the mice and take them out to the… nether regions of our property. So, you know, right, right. Yeah, the two do not cross over. So I’m, I’m fine with this, you know, we kind of said when we started this whole adventure, you’re kind of responsible for the outside, I’m kind of responsible for the inside, but we cross over all the time on this. But meal planning mostly falls to me. And the more I do it, the the more I realize what a complex set of

Roger (03:41.076)

Not to be confused with meal planning.

Kathi (04:08.259)

Actions this is and so I have used AI to really help in the meal planning So I wanted to give some examples, but I also wanted you to kind of describe how people can do this for themselves Now we use Claude for our meal for everything now Yeah, well almost everything it doesn’t matter Claude Claude. Let’s talk about Claude during this podcast

And do you want to give a reason why here in the year of our Lord, you know, the middle of 2024, why we’re using Claude as our AI buddy?

Roger (04:46.004)

Yeah, it may change. It may change in six months. It may change in three weeks. I don’t know. It’s a bit of a horse race. Who’s in the front and who is providing the best service for us? We use a paid version of Claude, Claude .ai. That’s C -L -A -U -D -E .ai. You’ve probably heard of ChatGPT. That’s awesome as well. You can go to Chat .OpenAI .com, I think.

Kathi (04:50.307)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:14.019)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Roger (05:14.836)

for ChatGPT, that’s great as well. We have switched over to Claude because it has more privacy, more security features, more features that are especially important for authors in the context of keeping their work private. But it’s also very good in terms of being able to go back and forth with a conversation for a long time. Chat GPT starts losing its way after a while, but Claude can keep in the conversation and keep going. So that’s two of the reasons why I think Claude is a good choice for folks.

Kathi (05:44.195)

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi (05:50.371)

Yeah.

Kathi (05:58.915)

It has the wisdom of an 80 year old and the sharp mind of a 35 year old. And so that’s the intersection we’re trying to work within. So I wanted to describe some of the ways that I am currently using Claude for meal planning and some of my favorite features. So let me talk about this and you can help us as we go along. Go ahead, Raj. Yeah. Yeah.

Roger (06:03.796)

Ha ha ha ha!

I’m sorry.

Roger (06:22.1)

Kathi, I wonder before we get into that, we could talk a little bit about some of the early stuff that happened with AI and cooking. We watched a YouTube channel for a while where there was an AI cooking challenge and they would take recipes straight off of AI and cook with them literally, you know, following to the T. And the results were not that impressive.

Kathi (06:47.491)

It was not good.

Roger (06:52.244)

So two things in that. One, AI has come a long way since then. And the second, since then, that was what, four months ago. But AI has come a long way since then. And then the other thing is to always take what you get from AI with a little bit of a grain of, a little bit of skepticism. And.

Kathi (06:57.251)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (07:02.851)

Mm. Right? Yeah.

Kathi (07:09.443)

Right.

Kathi (07:19.203)

No, you should have said grain of salt because this is a cooking episode.

Roger (07:22.324)

Yes, grain of salt. Yes. Exactly.

Kathi (07:27.331)

Yeah, so I would say if you get a recipe and it looks crazy, maybe go back, you know, try again. But I will say, so let’s talk about one of my first uses for this. Sometimes I have a mishmash of leftovers, ingredients, things in my refrigerator. And I’m like, I am all out of creativity. My job is a creative job. And it’s like sometimes I’m just tapped out when it’s five o ‘clock and it’s time to cook something for dinner. So explain what a prompt is, Roger.

Roger (08:04.404)

Yeah, a prompt is basically how we talk to the AI. You can think of a prompt as the thing that you type in to the Google search box when you’re looking for something, right? That’s you’re prompting Google to go out and find something on the Internet for you. That’s the same kind of thing that we’re talking about with Claude, except that the prompt can be much much more detailed. You can give it all kinds of parameters. You know, when you’re searching for Google, in Google if you get too wordy with your prompt, the results actually start getting worse. You know, you have to be careful to put the right word at the front and the back, you know, it becomes a whole thing. But with Claude and the AIs, the more you give it, the better the answer is.

Kathi (08:46.627)

Mm -hmm.

Roger (09:00.884)

So you can be as detailed as you want. So you could, when I was talking about, could you help me identify this animal? I was literally typing, hey, I live at 3 ,600 feet in the Sierra mountains and I just saw an animal that’s the shape of a jumbo size squirrel, but about three feet long and maybe 18 inches high. Any idea what this could be? And you know, that.

Kathi (09:27.875)

Mm -hmm.

Roger (09:30.26)

That’s the nature of a prompt.

Kathi (09:33.571)

Yeah, okay. So guys, what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna go listen to some of our fabulous sponsors who keep this podcast free for all. And when we come back, I’m gonna share some of my favorite prompts with you for getting the results I want to help me with all the things cooking. So we’ll be right back.

Kathi (10:05.315)

Okay friends, we are back and I just wanna share some of my favorite prompts that help me get my meal planning done. So if it’s five o ‘clock and I need to get something on the table and I have not planned, which happens sometimes, you know, we had leftovers, whatever. So I can go to Claude and say, hey, I’ve got chicken, spinach and sweet potatoes and a full pantry. Like so a full pantry, you know with spices and oils and things like that. Can you suggest a healthy dinner recipe and Or I could even say can you suggest three? delicious healthy dinner recipes now, why did I add the word delicious Roger?

Roger (10:54.74)

Claude and all the AI seem to do better when you give it some adjectives. It just puts it in the right frame of mind. I don’t know that I can even describe why it works, but it does. It also works if you sometimes stroke its ego. You know, if you are an expert chef, can you help me plan a recipe because, you know, I have chicken, spinach, and sweet potatoes.

Kathi (11:18.147)

Mm -hmm.

Roger (11:24.34)

Sometimes it gets better answers.

Kathi (11:24.451)

Yeah, so yes, so you know, our first category for prompts is recipe recommendations. So I have chicken, spinach, and sweet potatoes. Can you suggest a tasty, healthy dinner recipe? It would be a great prompt. I’m looking for a delicious vegetarian appetizer to bring to a party. Any ideas? And so both of those will give you some ideas.

With the vegetarian one, I would definitely say here are some ingredients I want to use you know Cabbage or you know cheese whatever it is. So that’s one way I would love to use it number two meal planning Can you create a balanced five -day dinner menu for a family of four? My son won’t eat green peppers or mushrooms and I’m allergic to dairy. Claude can handle all of that, which is amazing. I find this to be such a great gift for somebody who has dietary restrictions. If you’re vegan, vegetarian, lactose intolerant, gluten intolerant, this would be, now,

Again, check all your ingredients to make sure that they line up with what your diet actually is. I just learned the other day that Worcestershire sauce is not vegetarian. That it has, I think it’s fish in it? Yeah, I had no idea. Yeah.

Roger (13:04.98)

Like fish, yeah, I think it has fish, yeah. Yeah, so many things have fish. Hey, have you had a chance to use this for like party planning or retreat planning for meals?

Kathi (13:18.339)

I have not done, I have done party planning. So I’ll tell you one thing that I’ve done this week. We are, Roger doesn’t even know this. Our bake sale was just canceled like two minutes ago during, well, this podcast. Yeah. Breaking news. If you were planning to come to the Omo Ranch bake sale, it’s not this weekend. Yeah. Because it’s, it’s going to be the middle of May. And of course we’re, we’re predicted with snow. So, you know, that’s just where we live.

Roger (13:32.148)

okay. Good to know.

Kathi (13:47.875)

Anyway, but it helped me plan out the entire bake sale like here are all the things you need to bring with you here Like it can help with those kind of things which I think is fascinating But also when we have retreats here, we have people who are vegetarian. We have people who can’t eat gluten so I can start What I probably would do is say, here is what we normally would eat at a retreat. Can you give me some suggestions because of these modifications to the diet? And it would be a genius for that. So.

Roger (14:28.724)

Yeah, it’s part of our intake form for a retreat. Do you have any food allergies or other food restrictions? So we can just give those to Claude to create a plan for us. Or at least to start a plan for us. Yeah, we’re not just going to blindly trust. OK, rip it off the printer and give it to somebody. Here’s our shopping list. No, we don’t do that.

Kathi (14:33.347)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi (14:39.843)

It’s amazing. Right. No, no, no, we’re gonna verify, absolutely.

No, we don’t do that. But here’s what I love about it. It gets over the blank page. Because when I sit down to meal plan, Roger, I can’t remember anything I’ve ever cooked in my entire life. I cannot remember anything that you’ve ever liked to eat. Like I feel like I’m starting, go ahead.

Roger (15:10.676)

You sometimes ask me, what’s your favorite thing that I cook? And I always stare at you with a blank stare. It’s like, huh, I like it all. I know.

Kathi (15:21.923)

Yeah.

Which sounds fake, by the way. Okay, so here’s another way that I love to meal plan. I need to plan five days worth of packable work lunches. What do you suggest? So, you know, some of my favorite things are chicken salad, or you don’t like to give it some of your favorite things, but just, and here’s the beautiful thing. If it comes up with five days and the middle day is, well, Kathi, you could have a stuffed green pepper with, now, Roger, what would be my response to eating a stuffed green pepper for lunch?

Roger (16:04.82)

no.

Kathi (16:06.083)

No. I hate green peppers. I hate them so – Yes. So what what could I then do with Claude who’s suggesting green peppers on Wednesday and Friday?

Roger (16:09.012)

You loved me.

Roger (16:20.532)

So this is the beautiful thing about these AIs is that the chat inside of these means you can go back and forth. Thank you for that menu suggestion. I don’t really like green peppers. Can you suggest some alternatives? So it doesn’t lose track of what it’s already the conversation so far, but it can kind of pick up from there and modify things. Well, you know, you can omit the green pepper. You could substitute in a zucchini or whatever is appropriate. So it really does have that chat aspect. You’re going back and forth with the AI. That wasn’t quite right, and here’s a suggestion. It’s OK to tell it that it got it wrong. It will apologize. It’ll trip over its own feet to apologize for getting it wrong for you. And we tend to end with thank you.

Kathi (16:58.979)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:14.883)

It’s amazing.

Yes, we do because we’re people pleasers and polite. Yes But you know if the robots do rise up, I want them to think of me favorably. I’m just kidding you guys. Okay Okay, let’s talk about my absolute favorite way to use AI This this is the game changer you guys. This is the this is the everything so my prompt would be

Roger (17:19.7)

Wait.

Yes.

Roger (17:28.596)

Ha ha ha!

Kathi (17:45.219)

Here are the seven recipes I’m going to cook this week. And I would put those recipes in if I’m getting them from, you know, if I’m retyping them from a book, if I’m getting them off the internet, whatever it is. Now.

Roger (18:00.468)

So you would cut and paste the whole recipe, all seven of the recipes. OK.

Kathi (18:02.627)

I would cut and paste the whole recipe, all seven of the recipes. AI, Claude, please make me a shopping list categorized by the aisles in a grocery store. And so I’ve got my dairy, I’ve got my bakery, I’ve got my canned goods, I’ve got my produce, I’ve got my meat and seafood. Guys?

Roger (18:31.156)

and it’s all laid out for you to just pick it up while you’re shopping.

Kathi (18:35.395)

Yes, so I take that shopping list and I go through my kitchen and I’m like, okay, well, I’ve already got onions. I’ve already got canned broth. I’ve already got garlic. I’ve already got frozen chicken. And so here’s what’s left to purchase. And then I just go onto my little Sam’s Club app or I go on to Target or to Rayleigh’s, which is a local grocery store. I type it all in, I place my order and I just drive there on Wednesdays and pick up all my groceries and my life is the best it’s ever been. It makes me so happy, so, so, so happy. I can’t even stand it. Yeah.

Roger (19:11.86)

Wonder.

Roger (19:19.156)

Hey, Kathi, for folks on a super tight budget, I know you’ve also played with adding prices to that. How did that work out?

Kathi (19:23.267)

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Well, it added out really, really well. So if you want to keep like, so I would say if you’re on a super tight budget, here’s what I would say is don’t plan the recipes, plan the ingredients. So what do you already have? Maybe what’s on sale at your local grocery store or? You know, what’s in season right now if you have a garden and plant. So reverse engineer it. So this would be more like the recipe recommendations that we talked at top. And I would say, hey Claude, I’m on a super tight budget. I only have $25 for groceries this week. This is what I have in my freezer, my fridge and my pantry. Please suggest the most budget friendly but delicious recipes that I can come up with. And I also believe it’s a great idea to keep track of prices. Some people are able to keep track of prices in their head. I’m just not one of those people. But I do like to say, you know, here at Sam’s, you know, I can put my Sam’s receipt into Claude and say, can you give me the prices here for everything. So it’ll say chicken breasts are this much or garlic is this much. And I can start to keep track of those in one clod conversation. And I can say, hey, chicken at Safeway is 9 .99 for this frozen pack of breasts. Is that a better price than at Sam’s? And it will tell me.

It’s just genius. I love it so much. But figure out, tell Claude what your problem is. Is it that you don’t have enough time? You don’t have enough energy? You don’t have enough money? What is the resource that’s the most struggling for you? Here’s another thing. What if you’re in a situation where you’re living in a camper right now? Claude, I need meals that…

Kathi (21:44.003)

can be prepared in the microwave. Or, you know, like tell Claude your circumstance and Claude will help you figure it out. Claude, I live in a food desert and the only store I have near me is Dollar General. Here’s, you know, and there, you could go and either Claude will know what’s typically at Dollar General or there’s an article online that says here are the foods that are typically at Dollar General. And you can figure out what it is that you could prepare. And by the way, if you, I think it’s Dollar Tree Meals. Okay, so there’s a Instagram or Dollar Tree Meals. If you’re on a super tight budget, I would go follow her. Yeah.

Roger (22:21.78)

Thanks.

Roger (22:36.34)

It’s almost like you’re playing a guy’s grocery game with Claude, right?

Kathi (22:39.651)

It’s it’s so true because on guys grocery tape game. You’ve got a limitation of money time Energy and you know what’s available or and you’ve got this specific challenge. I mean women are okay I know some guys cook but guys it’s mostly falling to us. We are playing guys grocery game every single day We’re trying to stay in budget. We’re trying to get something on the table quickly all of that Okay, other things that you can do cooking questions. This recipe calls for buttermilk, but I don’t have any. What can I use instead? How long can I safely store cooked chicken legs in the fridge? Those are great things. So cooking questions. Nutritional analysts. If you’re trying to up your fiber or trying to lower your macros or up your macros, like whatever it is, Claude can help with that and makes meal suggestions. Batch cooking and freezer meals.

What are some good recipes for making a big batch and freezing portions for later? Or how should I prep and freeze the components for this casserole recipe so I can assemble and cook it later? I love these things. I love these things. And by the way, we’re going to put all these prompts into the into the show notes so that you can just go grab them and see what we’re working with. And finally, number seven, utilizing leftovers. I have leftover grilled vegetables and quinoa.

How can I turn them into a new meal? I think that’s such a great question. What’s a creative way to use up extra roast chicken from last night’s dinner? We’re gonna be using this a lot as our zucchinis come in. Like, we’re gonna have a million, Claude’s gonna be helping us with the zucchini and tomato question all summer long, and it’s gonna be great. Roger, did I miss anything?

Roger (24:31.956)

You know, I love the idea of using this for things like food allergies and food preferences and those kinds of things. If it’s super important to you, like it’s important for your health, Claude can certainly help, but always double check the results. Don’t ever trust it blindly. Yeah, exactly.

Kathi (24:52.099)

Trust but verify. Yeah, yeah. If you’re like, Claude said I could use Worcestershire sauce and I’m a vegetarian, that’s something new I didn’t know I could use. No, if you’re surprised by an answer, and I don’t see a lot of mistakes with Claude, but I’m always going to verify. Just like, you know, Roger, if you told me, Worcestershire sauce is vegetarian and being a vegetarian is important to me.

I love you, but I’m not gonna trust you all the time. I’m going to verify. And so we, yes. Absolutely, absolutely. Roger, this has been super fun. And I really think that this is gonna be life -changing for a lot of people who feel stressed by cooking dinner every night, because it is every night. And I think that it’s gonna be really, really important.

Roger (25:23.828)

The more important it is to you, the more important it is to check the output.

Kathi (25:45.763)

And it’s not just dinner, it’s three meals a day. And so if Claude can help, I know wanting to eat three times a day, it’s ridiculous. Thanks for hanging out with me, Raj. Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutter -Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go live the clutter -free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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by | Apr 30, 2024 | Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Decorating, Home, Perfectionism, Podcast, tips and ideas | 1 comment

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615 – Breaking Free from Decorating “Rules”: Creating a Home You Love Part 2

Are you struggling with judgmental voices from your past that insist your home décor must be showroom perfect?

Shun the shamers in your head and learn how to break free of their nitpicky demands!

Join Kathi and bestselling author Myquillyn Smith, also known as “The Nester,” as they continue their discussion about Myquillyn’s new book, “House Rules: How to Decorate for Every Home, Style, and Budget.” They’ll delve into:

  • Why you don’t have to fill every empty space
  • Using the concepts of “house hushing” and “one sane space” to quiet your quarters
  • Getting past perfectionism to love your space your way

As Kathi says in today’s episode, “if you love your house enough, it doesn’t matter what other people think.” Tune in now to learn how to make this your motto!

Order a copy of Myquillyn Smith’s newest book House Rules here. 

Sign up here to be notified when the next episode is released.

Would you like to receive Kathi’s Clutter Free Kit in your inbox? Sign up here.

The Clutter-Free Home: Making Room for Your Life

When it comes to your home, peace is possible…

Longing for a place of peace from which you can love others well? The Clutter-Free Home is your room-by-room guide to decluttering, reclaiming, and celebrating every space of your home.

Let author Kathi Lipp (who once lived a life buried in clutter) walk you through each room of your house to create organizational zones that are not only functional and practical but create places of peace that reflect your personality. Kathi will help you tackle the four-step process of dedicate, decide, declutter and “do-your-thing” to reveal the home you’ve always dreamed of, and then transform it into a haven that reflects who you truly are meant to be.

If you’re also feeling overwhelmed by the care and upkeep of all the stuff under your feet or sense that your home is running you, instead of the other way around, come discover how to create a space that doesn’t have to be showroom perfect to be perfect for you and the people you love.

Order your copy here!

Favorite Links:

Myquillyn Smith’s website TheNester.com.

Myquillyn Smith on Instagram @thenester

Order Myquillyn’s newest book HOUSE RULES: How to Decorate for Every Home, Style, and Budget here

Take Myquillyn’s decorating quiz here

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group 

Where is your “one sane space?” Share your answer in the comments.

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

  • Leave a note in the comment section below.
  • Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

Meet Our Guest 

Myquillyn Smith

MYQUILLYN SMITH, also known as “The Nester,” is the New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Welcome Home and Cozy Minimalist Home. For the past 17 years, she’s been encouraging women to embrace their space—imperfections and all—and make it their own. Her previous homes have been featured in Better Homes & Gardens, Ladies’ Home Journal, and Cottages & Bungalows. She recently purchased and redecorated a1905 Queen Anne Victorian home in Morganton, North Carolina, the inspiration for her new book House Rules. She’s never met a home she didn’t love.

Find her online at TheNester.com and on Instagram @thenester.

Transcript

Kathi (00:00.174)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And guys, I just, yeah, if you heard last week, you know I’m gushing, I’m not gonna gush all this time, but it’s Myquillyn Smith. The book is House Rules. You guys, she is my favorite decorating guru.

And I know you shouldn’t have gurus. You shouldn’t because you gotta create your own style. But she has helped me figure out who I am and how to live in my house. And I want her to do the same for you. Plus, you guys, she gets people who maybe wanna keep too many things in their house. She is not, she’s not judgmental. She understands our people. Myquillyn welcome back to the podcast.

Myquillyn (00:57.51)

I’m so glad to be here. You are my people. I love it.

Kathi (01:01.722)

Yes, yes, we need to we have to have a lot of crossover in our communities. I’m 100% And guys if you haven’t listened to last week go back and listen to that that’ll give you a lot of context for this week But I uh, I may love this book as much as I loved your first book Again, it’s House Rules: How to Decorate for Every Home, Style, and Budget And the reason that I love your book so much is because well

This is called House Rules. You don’t have a lot of rules or you teach us how to break the rules that maybe, I don’t know if other people feel like this, that I’ve had some very judgmental voices, house decorating voices in my head from the past and maybe kind of kept myself a little trapped. Have you ever worked with anybody like that?

Myquillyn (01:55.125)

Yeah, I mean, I have myself, I have experienced that as well, thinking I am going to get shamed or I’m gonna get told off or someone comes in my house and says, we need to get those drapes hemmed and when are we going to do this, that and the other to finish the house? That’s the kind of, yeah, I’ve experienced that myself and had to pull up my big girl pants and say, this is it, this is what I’m choosing to do so that I can

Kathi (01:57.62)

Okay.

Myquillyn (02:24.897)

have the rest of my life be full and look the way I want it to look.

Kathi (02:29.822)

You know, I remember when we sold our last house, it was, I loved it, I loved it so much. But the one thing my husband and I just said, okay, you know what, it’s just not as important to us as it is to other people. And you guys are gonna, everybody’s gonna scream when they hear this. We had popcorn ceilings. And in California, they’re very expensive to get rid of. And it’s like

we had to make choices and people would come in and say, and what are we gonna do about those popcorn ceilings? I’m like, if that’s the first thing you notice in my beautiful home, then, you know, my decorating style is not for you. It just isn’t. And so I think it’s so interesting what some people fixate on when they’re in other people’s homes. And we think, oh, nobody’s gonna notice. And it’s just weird that some people do, isn’t it? That what…

What are we going to do about those drapes on the floor? I mean, we’re going to enjoy them and love them and see that they pool beautifully. Ha ha.

Myquillyn (03:34.362)

Feel free to do something with your own money and your time.

Kathi (03:40.198)

Yes, you have volunteered. Well, okay. So I think that if you love your house enough, it doesn’t matter what other people think. It really, really doesn’t. But you have to love it. You have to say, this is what I’m doing to make my house as loving and lovely as possible. I want to dig into your rules here, because we’ve already done seven and five, you can’t ruin something you already hate and resourcefulness is the ultimate resource. But let’s talk about

Okay, this is for my cluttery girls. Rule 11, luxury isn’t having more, it’s needing less. Talk to, okay, I’m not gonna say a word, just talk to us.

Myquillyn (04:21.693)

Okay, I was reluctant to learn this because all of my life I feel like luxury is having everything at your fingertips, no matter what you could possibly need. That is the very definition of luxury. So we moved into this house and it’s a 1905 Queen Anne Victorian. And I’m pointing out the master bedroom is like the largest master bedroom we’ve ever had. We’ve never had a big bedroom.

And when we moved here, we had a bed and like my nightstands were like this big because our last house, the room was this big. So they’re like, pip squeak. I mean, we had nothing. So our bed was in there. I purchased a little sofa from the previous owner. So I had a little sofa at the end of the bed. I ended up buying a pair of nightstands and I had a couple lamps. I put up drapes. There were shutters on the window.

And one day I walked up to the room, I had painted it a little darker, beautiful muddy blue, one of my personal neutrals. And I walked up to the room and it just felt just right. I couldn’t believe it because there was no gallery wall. There was no like 300 beautiful pillows. There wasn’t three layers of rugs. There wasn’t like layers of throws. It was like so simple. There was no vignette on both of the.

Like I nothing it was so quiet and I felt like rich I felt like I was staying in a high end hotel. It was like the lack of chaos and excess was luxurious. And I have heard that my whole life. But to experience it. I was like, Oh, I get that now I get like the almost the privilege of not having to fill up my space with all of this.

Kathi (05:48.612)

Oh.

Kathi (06:06.135)

Yeah.

Kathi (06:10.752)

Mmm.

Myquillyn (06:11.677)

just in case stuff was extremely peaceful and serene and welcoming and I love beautiful things I still have you know stuff in my home but that is one space in my house that I probably will continue to keep really sparse and it feels great.

Kathi (06:21.421)

Yes.

Kathi (06:32.234)

Okay, well, the conviction is here. I have, our bedroom is big. It’s the biggest bedroom we’ve ever owned. And I love our bed. I’ve got a Suzani print couch that is just, it’s everything I love. And then I have the gray chair. And the gray chair collects all the things and has no business being in there. But I had room.

And my cluttery brain says, but you have room for it. But it brings me no joy. Why do I still have it? Why did I need you to come on a podcast for me to say, okay, it’s time to get rid of it?

Myquillyn (07:11.349)

Because our default is that empty space is like incorrect and needs to be filled. Empty space is waiting to be, it’s unfinished, which is not true. We need margin in our lives, in our decor, in our schedule, in so many things, but like I’ve learned to, sometimes I can’t get it through my brain. Like actually I would enjoy having less in my family room. So I do a little practice, I call it house hushing, where I just tell myself, you know what?

Kathi (07:37.944)

Yes.

Myquillyn (07:39.605)

we’re gonna give it 24 hours. I’m gonna just take all my little cute tchotchkes and smalls and my clocks and my pillows and my plants. And I’m gonna take everything extraneous out, just have the furniture, and I just put it in another room like crazy in the dining room on the table for 24 hours. And it’s like zen and relaxing and without fail every time I choose out of my own free will.

Kathi (07:44.857)

Mm-hmm.

Myquillyn (08:04.981)

to not bring as much in. No one has to, I don’t have to like pick up everything and ask if I love it or if it brings me joy. I don’t have to like clear and make decision fatigue. I just experience the results first of like a quieted simple space. And then I can choose if I want to get rid of something. It’s like, to me, it’s backwards decluttering and it works.

Kathi (08:10.944)

Right?

Kathi (08:25.59)

Yes. It’s the creep. It’s the creep of life. Like, I love this little thing. I’m going to put it here. I love this little thing. I love this little thing, but I don’t love the 72 little things that end up in my kitchen in six months if I don’t do something about it. And I’m not talking about, you know, the bread tie. I’m talking about the little planter or, you know, the little thing that my friend gave me.

Myquillyn (08:41.761)

Yes.

Myquillyn (08:49.975)

Yes.

Kathi (08:53.214)

And it’s okay to enjoy things for a season and then release them. And I’ve also learned it’s okay to just have that thing that my friend gave me out in the fall. It’s not a fall decoration and I love it, but it doesn’t need to be out 365 days a year because I enjoy a quieter space. I really do. I love that. And if you live near me,

Myquillyn (08:57.762)

Yes.

Myquillyn (09:18.133)

Yep.

Kathi (09:22.23)

Check Freecycle for this really beautiful but unnecessary gray chair that needs to that needs to go Okay Again for my clutter free people you are in our brains friend rule a one sane space Talk about that

Myquillyn (09:40.693)

That came about when we were living in a fixer upper and every room was in chaos. We didn’t have a sink in the kitchen. We had like plastic sheets as walls, you know, a weird electrical thing. You could get electrocuted if you weren’t careful. And I just remember thinking, okay we got to have, we have to feel like a little bit normal. We can’t have every room be in chaos. So even with the plastic walls, I just got some paint and I painted over because it was like

Hunter green walls with the wallpaper. I pulled down the border real quick. Didn’t prep it perfectly, just thought, I gotta get something up and we’ll do it better in a few months. Threw a white paint on the wall, put a rug down, got our sectional in there, a couple pillows, a lamp, the television, the dog bed, like we can watch Andy Griffith, we can watch Survivor at night. A place for our family to feel relaxed and like.

sanity in the midst of living in a complete fixer upper. And even if you’re not in a fixer upper, if you’re, the relief of having one space that feels however you need it to feel, maybe it’s more minimal, maybe it’s more cozy at this stage in your life, while you do things in your other rooms is really powerful.

Kathi (10:57.986)

Not 20 minutes before we started these interviews, I was on a call with a nurse talking through her clutter situation. And she’s sneezing through the whole thing and is just sick and run down. And she goes, but I need to declutter, I need to declutter. And like, you cannot make any decisions right now. What I want you to do is just, where do you spend most of your time when you’re

as you’re recovering, she goes, in my living room. I said, I just need you to have a clear spot where your eye line isn’t seeing any clutter. And we can deal with this when you have more energy to make decisions and to do what you need to do, but you have to have a place to rest. And if your eyes are distracted by things, all these hanging chads, all these things that still need to be done.

You can never rest. Your brain is always flipping on, oh, it’s the hunter green paint. Oh, the dog’s bed isn’t in here because I don’t wanna get stuff on. You just have to have one place that you can open your eyes and rest. And this is, I love the name of it, One Sane Space. I’ve never thought of it. I always say you just have to have one place where you can escape, but Sane Space says,

No, I can rest and recover in this area. I love that so, so much. Okay, we’re going deeper into the rules, my friend. Number 98, make your own house rules. So explain this, and I wanna hear a few of yours, and I’ve got a couple of my own as well, because I have done this, but explain this concept.

Myquillyn (12:49.761)

Well, I give a book of 100 house rules and that’s one of them. I think that we should all come up with our own rules to live by. You know, about 10 years ago on Pinterest, it was a big thing. Everyone was making their own wooden sign with like house rules, you know, dogs on the sofa and whatever, no, whatever. It was like all fun things. I love that. Like that’s one of the reasons that I liked this name for the book because I think culturally it conjures up that memory of like the fun.

Kathi (12:53.292)

Right?

Kathi (13:04.212)

Yes.

Myquillyn (13:18.541)

house rules, the relaxed house rules. But one of my personal decorating house rules is that I like my life full of color, but I like my house full of neutrals. I am persnickety and I change my mind. In the spring, if I am furniture shopping, I will buy teal furniture and blue furniture. And in the summer, I want red and pink furniture. And in the fall, I want rusty colors and muddy. And in the winter, I want white. Like I have learned, I can tell when I buy a piece of furniture,

that’s a color based on this, because it was like the season, whatever season was, the color I’m craving. I cannot do that, because I can’t buy a new sofa every four months. So, I learned I am way too like finicky and wanting to change my colors. So I will get all of my base things neutral. And then if I want colored sheets, if I want colored pillows, if I want a colored sweater, I’ll put up books with colors and flowers with colors.

Kathi (13:51.788)

Oh, yeah.

Kathi (13:57.856)

Right.

Kathi (14:10.798)

Hmm

Myquillyn (14:15.585)

but I’m not gonna buy my main pieces in color because I wanna change my mind, I wanna change it up too much. That is not a rule for everyone. Someone else might have the opposite rule and they should. So that’s my example, what is yours?

Kathi (14:24.77)

Right.

Kathi (14:30.946)

So I’ve got a practical one and I have a fun one. So in our house, flooring needs to be functional, not fabulous. And I just needed to do it because, I mean, we live where there is a high chance that chicken poop will get in our house at one point or another. We’re just not precious about stuff. And we need stuff that is functional. And we can put the pretty stuff

at waist level or above. But yeah, the floors just have, and I would never have chosen the floors that we have downstairs, but they’re exactly the right floors. The previous owners knew what they were doing when if we needed to, we could take a hose to them. We don’t do that, but we could if we needed to. And then the other thing is, my style is things we love.

And that’s just, there is nothing in my house that I don’t love. I used to have things in my house that other people loved. Like we had, I bought a pillow one time for Christmas and in red letters it says Joy. And I was so sad to put it away after Christmas. I’m like, is Joy just reserved for December? And so now I have this Joy pillow out all year long.

And it makes me so happy all year long. And it’s like, we only have things in our house that we love. And if there’s something in our house that we don’t love, we have to question, you know, I don’t love our emergency kit. We have it in our house, but it’s not something I’m displaying. And so that’s our style is things we love. And it’s never going to fit into any genre, but I…

I wake up every day and I’m happy. So

Myquillyn (16:31.021)

That is perfect. The whole goal is for you to love your home. You have arrived. Like when we love our home, we use our home. So do not change any of that.

Kathi (16:34.71)

Yeah.

Kathi (16:39.34)

Yes.

Yeah, and I’m reluctant to leave, because the world is not suited for me in any way, shape, or form, but my house is. Okay, this one. You’re a genius, this is all I’m gonna say. Rule number 99, make a we did it list. This is genius, please expand upon what this concept is.

Myquillyn (16:50.605)

and I’ll see you next time.

Myquillyn (17:06.989)

Gosh, I think when it comes to home, we are so focused on all the stuff we have to do and all the undone decisions and all the ceiling fan that needs to be replaced and we haven’t gotten to the back porch yet and the flooring in there. If we can take a moment and take stock of all the things we have done, I do this at least every year and look back like everything in our house, we do it with our goals too, like what we did with our family, but.

Kathi (17:16.91)

Hehehehe

Myquillyn (17:34.561)

You and everything counts. If we made a chicken coop, if we replaced the faucet, if I’m like, and I dusted behind the sofa, write that down, you know, change the light fixture, whatever, it all counts. I think we would be shocked at what we accomplish in a year, in a month in our home. We need to give ourselves credit for all that we’ve done in caring for our home.

Kathi (17:59.246)

And do not discount making a chicken coop because let’s be clear the one we got was advertised as like a Michaels do-it-yourself project and it turned out to be a Home Depot expert pro project It I mean it is it is a fabulous chicken coop, but holy cow. Yes I think it’s we have such I do this with decorating I do this with God, but what have you done lately? What have you done lately like?

Myquillyn (18:12.301)

It’s true.

Kathi (18:28.074)

You know, yes, I have worked so hard on my house. I forget what it was like to move out of the upstairs of our house to put flooring down. You might as well burn the house down and start over again. It is so much work, but it’s done. And it’s done for the next hopefully 20 years. But it’s so easy to focus on, yeah, but the kitchen light fixture. Like I haven’t done the kitchen light fixture.

Myquillyn (18:43.894)

I’m dead.

Kathi (18:56.858)

And I love that you’re taking stock. And this is so true in our cluttery communities. We always talk about, we declutter and then it just gets to look like that again. But here’s the thing, once you get the stuff out of your house, you never ever have to deal with that book or piece of furniture or piece of clothing ever again for the rest of your life. You may have to deal on what you’re bringing into the house but look at what you’ve done.

And we’re so proud when our kids do something, we need to also recognize ourselves for the accomplishments we’re doing. Because let’s be honest, some of these projects are hard and they take big grownup decision making that is sometimes, and you’ve saved money to do things. And if you’ve brought in outside help, that doesn’t always go the way, and you have to negotiate with the people you live with. And so anytime you accomplish something, it is…

It is a win. And guys, if you are ready to, especially if you’ve done some decluttering, I really think one of the best things you can do for yourself, and I know I learned this term from you, after you’ve quieted your house, you can take a look around and say, is there something that I want to do? Because now that my house isn’t screaming clutter at me, it can reveal its personality. It can reveal who it is.

And guys, I’m just gonna really encourage you. Take a look at this book, House Rules, How to Decorate for Every Home, Style, and Budget. Myquillyn this is, I get so inspired when I spend time with you. Thank you so much for your time and your wisdom today.

Myquillyn (20:37.341)

Oh, Kathi, you are so dear. You could, you know all of this. You don’t even need me. Like you are beyond. So I just, so happy to know you and man, you are so wise.

Kathi (20:49.758)

Okay, even if that was true, here’s what you do. You help me be brave. You help me not get, I think so many of us who deal with clutter are such, we’re perfectionists in such hard ways. We don’t do anything until we know we can do it 100%. And you’ve given me permission to say, even if I think I can do it, I should try. I’m probably not gonna burn the house down. I probably am not going to have to repaint the whole room. And…

You know, maybe some $20 decisions are okay to take a flyer on. So I know a lot of what you teach, but you helped me be brave to enact it. And that’s what I want for everybody in my community. So thank you. Thank you, friend.

Myquillyn (21:36.749)

Oh, happy to be here. Thank you.

Kathi (21:39.69)

And friends, thank you for being here. You are the best part of us gathering each week. You’ve been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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by | Dec 5, 2023 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Podcast, Relationships | 0 comments

Listen Now

594 – What I Learned About Clutter in 2023 that Will Change My Relationship with Stuff in 2024: Part 2

Do you struggle with trusting yourself when it comes to living clutter-free?

Kathi Lipp and her cohost Tonya Kubo are here for you! In part 2 of “What I Learned About Clutter in 2023 that Will Change My Relationship with Stuff in 2024,” Kathi and Tonya give us tips #2 and #3 to know and trust yourself regarding your clutter-free journey.

Listen in and learn:

  • The importance of community
  • Kathi and Tonya’s personal challenges with clutter
  • Kathi’s solution to the problem that plagues so many of us!

Kathi mentions the virtual Abundant Home Conference that is a BONUS when you sign up for Clutter-Free for Life. You’ll find that information here.

Want to know tip #1 from Part 1 of today’s episode? Click here.

Be sure to sign up here and be notified when the next episode is released.

 

 

Join Clutter Free for Life Today! 

What if you were able to create a life where you not only got rid of the clutter in each room of your house but were able to stay on top of it?

What if you learned to organize in a way that made sense to you so that once you decluttered, you could find the things that were important enough to keep?

What if you could live in a house that was at peace?

You’ve been thinking about how this will be the year to finally declutter your house and create the home you’ve always dreamed of. One that is filled with peace instead of stuff.

Is the idea of changing your home something you’d like to start working on? Because, right now, I have a plan that will show you how: Clutter Free for Life

The Clutter Free for Life annual membership is on sale right now for $118 (regular price is $299 or $24.99 per month) from Nov. 28 to Dec. 8. It returns to its regular price on Dec. 9, so join today!

Links Mentioned:

Tonya Kubo

Clutter Free For Life

Clutter Free books and resources

Favorites:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

Do you have a wrapping paper solution? Share your answer in the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

  • Leave a note in the comment section below.
  • Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

Meet Our Guest 

 

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

 
Transcript

(time stamps reflect the recording being one recording edited into two pieces)
Kathi (14:50.978)
Okay, number two, the second thing I’ve learned, and I feel like you’ve been the main instructor to me on this, but I see it coming through in my own life. This is gonna be a mantra in Clutterfree forever, is trust your creativity. Okay, Tanya, I’ll share how it changed.

Tonya Kubo (15:09.708)
Ha ha

Kathi (15:17.507)
my thinking but I want to hear from you first because I really heard this from you.

Tonya Kubo (15:18.261)
Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (15:23.896)
It’s like…

We’re so afraid. So you have said before, clutter oftentimes is closeted perfectionism, right? We’re so afraid of doing things wrong, right? And so what ends up happening, and I’m just gonna speak from my own perspective, because growing up with a hoarder for a mom, it took a while, but at some point in my mid-20s, I realized I did not have a picture.

Kathi (15:34.41)
Yes, 100%.

Kathi (15:40.33)
Mm-hmm

Tonya Kubo (15:53.724)
of what like a normal house looked like and how that normal house looked normal, like day in day out, right? And so you’re, you know, I’m doing what everybody does. I’m subscribing to Martha Stewart magazine and real simple. And that was back in the days before Pinterest. But you know, once Pinterest came along, I’ve got the Pinterest boards and I’m constantly trying to make every space I live in look like these pictures when I don’t live in a space that looks like those pictures. I’ve lived in two houses now that don’t

Kathi (15:58.99)
Mm-hmm, right.

Kathi (16:17.514)
Yeah. No.

Tonya Kubo (16:22.252)
have like two closets in the whole house. And so the idea of trusting your own creativity came from when I hired a professional organizer at a real, to me, a very outrageous rate. And she came in and she was like, I can’t do anything, you don’t have storage. And so the whole appointment was spent with her and an Ikea catalog going through all the storage solutions I needed. And that was the first time I thought, oh.

Kathi (16:25.09)
Right.

Tonya Kubo (16:51.132)
It’s not me, it’s the space. And then I need to think about how I use this space, how I want to use this space. And you know what, how I use spaces, Kathy, doesn’t look like any Pinterest board I’ve ever seen. But it works for me. So that’s where I came up with the whole, like, okay, I just have to trust my own creativity. And if somebody else has a more creative solution, I am here for it, but I’m not gonna try to live my life according to magazines anymore.

Kathi (16:52.714)
Right. Yeah.

Kathi (16:57.838)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi (17:05.514)
No, no, yes.

Kathi (17:11.84)
Yes.

Kathi (17:15.789)
Yes.

Kathi (17:20.042)
Well, let me tell you how it has changed me is I don’t need to keep all the stuff I’m keeping just in case. I don’t know if this is a problem for anybody else or it’s just me, wrapping paper. Why is wrapping paper

Tonya Kubo (17:21.99)
Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (17:41.916)
No, that is a problem for everybody. Okay, I’m sure there’s like 200 people on the planet it’s not a problem for. But wrapping paper in the US, it’s a thing.

Kathi (17:49.044)
Yeah, okay.

It’s a real thing. And finally, I was like, okay, I feel dumb because I’ve had some of this wrapping paper for 10 years. What is going on? What is my damage? And then I get, that’s the Christmas wrapping paper and then it comes time to wrap a birthday present and I have no wrapping paper, none, none whatsoever. So like one of the things I have done now is I buy red and cream checked paper.

and that if it’s your birthday, you get red and cream checked paper. If it’s Christmas, if it’s Valentine’s, if it’s 4th of July, that is the paper you’re getting. And so I, but I was always afraid of using up the rest of my Christmas paper. And it’s like, no, Cathy, there’s an endless supply of Christmas paper that you will never be without. But also, if I needed to wrap something, I…

I could wrap it in a piece of fabric. I could hide it in a closet with a big bow on it. Like there are a thousand ways to give a gift. I don’t need to have, you know, there are people who have gift wrapping rooms. I don’t give that many gifts. I think I’m a generous person, but no, I do not give that many gifts. And right, right?

Tonya Kubo (18:52.322)
Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (19:09.27)
Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (19:15.592)
I don’t have that many rooms in my house.

Kathi (19:19.942)
And so, but I trust my own creativity. I don’t need to have every ingredient under the sun because I don’t have to make that kind of risotto. I can trust my creativity. If I’m making asparagus risotto and I don’t have asparagus, broccoli will work. Like I trust myself to figure these things out. I don’t need to have a hundred different options that I am.

Tonya Kubo (19:39.096)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi (19:48.746)
I’m a wise, creative, thinking person. And if I can’t think of another solution, you know what I can do? I can Google another solution. You know, I don’t have buttermilk. Well, I can pour some vinegar into real milk and we’re gonna be fine. Like I can trust myself that I can come, I can solve the issue at hand. And I don’t have to keep everything everywhere all the time.

And I think that that’s pretty genius. Okay, and this is number three. I have to know my challenges so I can adapt. This is kind of like your Ikea thing. The Ikea catalog. You didn’t realize the challenge that was before you was not that Tanya’s stupid, not that Tanya can’t figure it out, not that Tanya isn’t brilliant, it’s that Tanya has no storage.

Tonya Kubo (20:19.677)
Exactly.

Tonya Kubo (20:42.324)
I’m sorry.

Tonya Kubo (20:48.938)
Well, I really thought I was lazy, right? Like, and now organizers like, I don’t know how you’re so lazy, you’re not going to make storage. Like, that doesn’t even make sense.

Kathi (20:50.926)
Right? Yeah.

Kathi (20:56.99)
Yeah, right? So knowing that challenge, you know, right now, I’m going through a little back challenge. And it’s like, OK, you know what? So I’m going to have a really hard time bending over to grab things right now. Well, you know what? I just ordered like a, I did, like an octatigerian. And you know what? There are 80-year-olds who are way more limber than I am.

Tonya Kubo (21:16.845)
You ordered to grab her! You ordered to grab her!

Kathi (21:25.782)
But I ordered a grabber! Because…

Tonya Kubo (21:28.524)
I was gonna order one last year when I had surgery. And if I’d known I wasn’t gonna be able to sit up for two weeks, I totally would have done that. Yeah.

Kathi (21:31.719)
Yes!

Kathi (21:37.01)
Yeah, right. You know what? There will and as a vertically well, no, I’m not vertically challenged I am 5’6 and the national average for women is 5’5 But our homes are not built for the average height neither are women’s pants But that’s another rant that we will talk about another day Yeah, yes But you know what? There are sometimes things I need on the top shelf and right now i’m using extra long tongs

Tonya Kubo (21:56.824)
253, I get it, I get it.

Kathi (22:06.502)
Maybe I could upgrade just a little bit from there. Excuse me. Dude, I have the combo. I have the step stool and the extra long tongs. Like I’ve got it all over. Like to get into my bathtub, I’ve got a step stool. Okay, so recently we went on vacation with some friends, Susie and Robert, and they have a giant truck.

Tonya Kubo (22:06.787)
Hahaha

Tonya Kubo (22:11.42)
I use a step stool. Always have a step stool. I should just carry it with me, because I’m always…

Kathi (22:35.49)
And it’s, yes. So I had to carry around my little step stool all through, every time we stopped at Yosemite so that I could get out. And Moose is looking at like, come on, mom, let’s go. It’s just the stupidest thing, it really was. Okay, but know your challenges. So besides the lack of space, what would you say?

Tonya Kubo (22:35.776)
They do. I’ve seen that truck.

Tonya Kubo (22:41.211)
Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (22:47.032)
Ha ha ha!

Kathi (23:03.922)
I’ll tell you one of my challenges and I want to hear another one of yours, but one of mine Well, this is one we share we both had hoarders as parents And so, you know we had to we had to relearn what that looked like I will also say one of my challenges and I want to hear yours is That I am not very visual, you know There’s that test that’s been going around on social media when you close your eyes. Yeah, I can’t picture anything

Tonya Kubo (23:29.384)
Yeah, fail.

Kathi (23:33.618)
You know, one is like, I can imagine the whole scene and five is it’s all darkness. And I’m a, it’s all darkness girl. And so I really think that I cannot visualize what a space is going to look like. And that’s a challenge for me. So I have to ask my more talented friends. And I just wish I was hipper, but that’s not it. What do you feel like one of your challenges is?

Tonya Kubo (23:38.962)
Hahaha

Tonya Kubo (23:46.988)
Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (23:51.518)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (23:57.532)
Okay, so this is straight up child of a hoarder is I so I call it living small and I love the fact that I’m married to a man who I was able to explain it to him and he gets it. I there’s rooms I won’t go into for months or like if I go into the garage I will genuinely not see anything in the garage with the washer and dryer because that’s what I went in there for and then one day I go out there and where’d all this stuff come from Kathy lip.

Kathi (24:00.372)
Okay.

Kathi (24:26.338)
Right.

Tonya Kubo (24:26.756)
Why is it like this? And I’m losing my marbles. It had been there the whole time. I just didn’t see it. So like the other day, I go to open a window. I have a window by my bed, but it’s on the opposite side that I sleep on. And up until about, say the bottom of the mattress is just this big pile of clothes and toys. Abby had been over there. She like plays over there. Well, I never go over there. I had no idea.

Kathi (24:38.636)
Yeah.

Kathi (24:55.096)
Ah.

Tonya Kubo (24:57.868)
right? And Brian is just like, that has been a slow building pile for about three months now, Tonya. But it’s like it may as well be the end of the earth, Kathy. I just never go on the opposite side of the bed. And so it’s one of those things that I’ve been working on in 2023 is visiting every part of my- my house is small people, my house is two bedrooms, but making sure I visit every part of my house like at least every other day.

Kathi (25:08.471)
Right.

Kathi (25:18.839)
Right.

Kathi (25:26.398)
Yeah, this is not Wadsworth mansion, guys. This is.

Tonya Kubo (25:29.093)
No it’s not! The other side of the bed is like, you know, I never have to go there. Bray, it’s like, why do you think I like jump from the bottom of the bed? I’m like, I don’t know, I just thought that’s how you like to get in bed.

Kathi (25:46.158)
Oh my goodness. Okay, you’re killing me. You’re killing me. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (25:49.408)
So I just want to point out, I am not just the leader of Clutterfree Academy, I am still a card carrying member.

Kathi (25:56.734)
Yes, but you know what, but isn’t your life better than it was before? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (26:00.304)
Oh, it’s so much better. Well, you know what? It’s so much better because I’m not alone. I mean, I tell people that all the time when they join Calligraphy Academy because they’re like, you know, I am the only person who blah, blah. And like, no, you’re not. We got like 14,999 other people here just like you who thought they were the only person. I thought I was the only person for years. And yeah. And so I love our community because they remind me how far I’ve come, but they also remind me how far I have to go.

Kathi (26:18.09)
Right. Yeah.

Kathi (26:29.898)
Yes. Now earlier you mentioned that in Clutter Free for Life, which is our paid program, we get a little bit deeper, a little bit more intentional, there’s a little bit more accountability. What really is the difference between Clutter Free Academy, which is our free program, and Clutter Free for Life?

Tonya Kubo (26:36.553)
Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (26:51.588)
You know, Clutterfree Academy is come one, come all, right? You can be any stage of clutter. You can be on the hoarding spectrum, whatever. You say you have a clutter problem, we believe you. That’s fine. And you can focus on your clutter. You can not focus on your clutter. That’s fine too. In Clutterfree Academy, so that is for, you know, I always say it, I built, you built it too, but you know, I’ve always taken ownership over it. I’m like, I built the program I desperately needed.

Kathi (27:17.037)
Please.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (27:20.86)
Um, which is there’s not just a lot more accountability, but we’re pretty blunt about it. We get that life happens, but this is a program for people who are ready for clutter to be a today battle and not a someday battle. And I don’t say like, like we don’t kick somebody out because they broke their leg and can’t move around for six months. And we just had a member who isn’t allowed to put any weight on her leg. Right. That’s not what I mean, but it’s not a place where.

Kathi (27:34.925)
Right.

Tonya Kubo (27:48.204)
people aren’t actively pursuing a different relationship with their stuff. So that’s the first thing. So everybody in there is just as committed to you are. They’re just as focused on progress over perfection. There’s no armchair experts who want to tell everybody else how to live. I mean, we don’t really have that in Clutterfree Academy either, but… And there’s tools. I’m very protective of my cluttery people. You cannot be mean to my people.

Kathi (28:07.018)
We may, but we squash them down and kick them out.

Kathi (28:15.976)
Yes, you are

Tonya Kubo (28:18.624)
But in Clutterfree for life, you know, I get, I get it. I get that you wake up every day overwhelmed and feeling like you have lost before you ever started the race. And so we have a calendar that gives you a focus for every single day. We have tracking sheets for those who like to keep track. You know, one thing that came up in Clutterfree Academy recently, cause we shared one of the members only tracking sheets in there. People were like, oh my gosh, that’s so overwhelming. I don’t wanna count stuff. It’s like, if it doesn’t work for you, that’s fine.

Kathi (28:29.015)
Right.

Tonya Kubo (28:48.576)
But in Clutter Free for Life, we’ve developed these resources that kind of work with every sort of brain type. There’s the people that like to check boxes. There’s the people that don’t want to check boxes. There’s the people who need to be told, this is what you’re doing today. There’s the people who want more freedom. We’ve got something for all of them. And then the other thing that I feel like, so there’s two things, because I’m not a checklisty person. The two things that I think are most valuable is, first and foremost, it’s the community. It’s the other people.

Kathi (29:10.342)
Right.

Kathi (29:17.806)
Hmm

Tonya Kubo (29:18.016)
rolling up their sleeves, doing the same thing you’re doing in a different house, in a different town, in a different state, sometimes a different country at the same time. There is so much community. Like, I mean, it’s like we have men and women, so I don’t wanna say it’s a sisterhood or a brotherhood, but it’s a fraternal organization of cluttering people is what it is.

Kathi (29:25.119)
Right.

Kathi (29:38.142)
Right. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (29:40.72)
And then we have the coaching and see, and that’s where we go deep. Every week we do a coaching session and it’s not the kind of coaching that some people, it’s not like a Facebook Live. We do Facebook Lives a lot in Clutterfree Academy, but we actually all get together on Zoom. We see each other’s faces. We’re in our real life spaces. Some people don’t put their camera on because they’re not comfortable with people knowing how they live. That’s fine, we don’t judge them. But that’s where we talk about like, how do you apply what we’re trying to do here?

Kathi (29:58.99)
Mm-hmm, which is fine.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (30:10.504)
in clutter-free academy to the daily ups and downs of life. How do you have a clutter-free home when you have a medically fragile child and that child has more medical equipment than you have space in any room in your house? What does that look like? What does it look like when your water heater blows up and everything that was in your basement now needs to be moved somewhere else? Those are the kinds of problems we solve and they seem silly to some people, but they’re real.

Kathi (30:23.263)
Right?

Yeah.

Kathi (30:29.285)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi (30:33.037)
Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (30:39.676)
and they’re deep and I love the fact that it’s a small enough group that we can serve at that level.

Kathi (30:41.07)
video.

Kathi (30:46.49)
Yes. And so, you know, guys in clutter free for life, there is coaching every single week, you can take advantage of it, or you can do it when you need it. There is accountability. And there are people to cheer you on when you’re making progress and to help you up when you’ve fallen down because that happens too. But in clutter free for life, people are making a real difference, not just in their homes, but in their lives. And it’s incredibly cool to see.

Tonya Kubo (31:12.536)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi (31:15.782)
A year membership, well, year membership normally is, it’s normally month to month. The rest of the year it’s month to month, right? Oh, oh that’s right. Okay, so yes, but yes, I got a little confused there, but it’s going on sale. So Tanya, can you give us the deal on that?

Tonya Kubo (31:23.616)
Well, you can buy it, no, you can buy it annually for $299 a year.

Tonya Kubo (31:30.749)
Or $24.99 a month.

Tonya Kubo (31:39.943)
Yes. So from November 28th until December, I’m looking at my calendar right now, December 8th, so November 28th to December 8th, you can get the annual plan for $118. So that is $118 a year. The price.

of the membership when you enroll is the price that you were grandfathered in forever. So it will automatically renew every year at one 18 a year. It’s less than 10 bucks a month. And and I always because I like I’ll be honest, there’s no membership I’ve ever joined Kathy that I have done 11 out of 12 months. Right. So I love the fact that at under $10 a month, you get hurt, something happens and you need to take a few months off. You don’t feel like all is lost.

And we’re so nice. Like you just come back in and you say, hey, I’m restarting. And we’re like, okay, how can we help? Where can we jump in? Let’s do it. And you’ve got a great team there. You know, you’re coaching in person, like in person by Zoom twice a month. We’ve got Deanna, we’ve got Grace, you’ve got me. We’ve got like a whole off Facebook platform. It’s just an incredible time.

Kathi (32:48.45)
Yeah, it really is. And so guys, oh, and we have one other little fun bonus that if you wanna join us.

Tonya Kubo (32:56.504)
Oh yes, why do I always forget that? In March, so you join now, but in March, you get to go to the Abundant Home Conference for free. That is a virtual half-day conference. So about every hour on the hour, give or take, we have a new session that starts and we’re talking about gardening, we’re talking about home, we’re talking about like all sorts of things because the problem…

Kathi (33:01.28)
Yes.

Kathi (33:07.991)
guess.

Kathi (33:15.007)
Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (33:25.212)
that we discovered early on, right, Kathy, is everybody wants to delay living until their house looks a certain way. And so the Abundant Home Conference is really about appreciating and loving the space you live in during the journey.

Kathi (33:30.698)
Yeah. Right. And.

Kathi (33:40.534)
Yeah, we’re not about that life. We’re not waiting to live until you can eat off our floors. And who wants to eat off of floors anyway, guys? So yeah, not me. So here’s the deal, guys. The link is in the show notes. And you just click over there. You’ll get it for 118. There’s a 30 day, no questions asked, money back guarantee. And guys, it’s…

Tonya Kubo (33:43.208)
Yeah.

Kathi (34:10.438)
it’s changing lives. So we’re really going to encourage you to jump over there. Tanya, thanks so much for hanging out with me.

Tonya Kubo (34:17.085)
Thanks for having me and I’ll say one more thing, my contact information is also going to be in the show notes and if you have questions about the program, if you’re not sure if it’s for you, if you’re worried about anything, just drop me a line, I’d be happy to talk to you.

Kathi (34:30.07)
I love that. You know what, guys, I highly recommend. Talking to Tanya is awesome. So yeah, go and ask her any of the questions. Tanya, thanks so much for being here today.

Tonya Kubo (34:40.876)
Thanks for having me.

 

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#593 What I Learned About Clutter in 2023 that Will Change My Relationship with Stuff in 2024 Part 1

#593 What I Learned About Clutter in 2023 that Will Change My Relationship with Stuff in 2024 Part 1

by | Nov 28, 2023 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Podcast, Relationships | 0 comments

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593 – What I Learned About Clutter in 2023 that Will Change My Relationship with Stuff in 2024: Part 1

Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo have been decluttering their own homes and teaching others to do the same for many years. But there are always new things to learn! In this two-part series, this decluttering duo discusses what they have been learning this year about their clutter and about themselves. 

Listen in and learn:

  • What kind of language can we use to talk about clutter with those we live with?
  • How can we focus on our own stuff without building up resentment toward others?
  • Ways to discover if your stuff problem is really a relational or personal issue, and what to do about it.

Come back next week for the rest of the conversation, when Kathi and Tonya talk about how to trust yourself and how to know yourself when it comes to your clutter. Be sure to sign up here and be notified when the next episode is released.

 

 

Join Clutter Free for Life Today! 

What if you were able to create a life where you not only got rid of the clutter in each room of your house but were able to stay on top of it?

What if you learned to organize in a way that made sense to you so that once you decluttered, you could find the things that were important enough to keep?

What if you could live in a house that was at peace?

You’ve been thinking about how this will be the year to finally declutter your house and create the home you’ve always dreamed of. One that is filled with peace instead of stuff.

Is the idea of changing your home something you’d like to start working on? Because, right now, I have a plan that will show you how: Clutter Free for Life

The Clutter Free for Life annual membership is on sale right now for $118 (regular price is $299 or $24.99 per month) from Nov. 28 to Dec. 8. It returns to its regular price on Dec. 9, so join today!

Links Mentioned:

Tonya Kubo

Clutter Free For Life

Clutter Free books and resources

Favorites:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

How will you prepare to be clutter free in 2024? Share your answer in the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

  • Leave a note in the comment section below.
  • Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

Meet Our Guest 

 

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

 
Transcript

Kathi (00:02.262)
Tanya, it feels weird to say welcome to the program because Roger just said, just came into my office and said, do you talk to anybody but Tanya? And I’m like, we haven’t talked in weeks. We have not talked in weeks. We’re making up for all that lost time. But you know, you and I were recently teaching and I just thought, you know, I sometimes wonder, okay, Tanya, we’ve been talking about, I think we’ve been talking on this subject for eight years now.

Tonya Kubo (00:31.964)

Yeah, we have, we have. And there is! There is.

Kathi (00:32.382)
Is there anything left? And there is. You know what? I discover new things each year that are not just aha moments for our memberships, but are aha moments for us. And I just thought I would, you know, as we are leaving 2023 and ringing in 2024 and people are, I know what they’re saying.

Tonya Kubo (00:42.157)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi (01:02.094)
I just need to try harder in 2024. I just need to work harder. I just need to buckle down. I need to stop playing around. And that sounds terrible. And I don’t want you to live that way. And so I thought I would share some of the things that you and I have been talking about that made a difference for us in 2023. And maybe these will be, you know,

Tonya Kubo (01:05.1)
Right.

Kathi (01:29.554)
I don’t believe in light bulb moments. I believe in marquees. You know, it takes a thousand light bulb moments for us to make huge systemic change in our lives. But that’s what I want. I want that systemic change. And so I wanna share some of the light bulb moments that Tanya and I have been having this year. And…

Tonya Kubo (01:49.019)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi (01:57.422)
Let this be on the way to your marquee where you’re like, it’s going to light your path. Okay. I’ve taken this metaphor a little too far, but

Tonya Kubo (02:05.764)
I was there with you though every step of the way. It’s like when I try to use sports analogies and then I’m like, wait a minute, I don’t actually know anything about sports. Yeah.

Kathi (02:11.564)
Yeah.

Yeah, go sports. Yay Yes, and yesterday you said in the training we were doing you’re gonna give everybody a shot in the arm I’m like want walk cuz I just got my I’m just old enough for my shingles shot And can I tell you it is now two days later and I still can’t raise my arm above my head That is no joke that shot

Tonya Kubo (02:37.08)
I just want to say shingles went through my office space a few years ago, right? So like people like in their mid thirties to forties getting shingles, I can just tell you right now, whatever you’re experiencing, 10 times better than actually having shingles.

Kathi (02:41.047)
No.

Kathi (02:45.006)
Yeah.

Kathi (02:50.218)
This is true. This is what you’re no, and we have a rule in our house. You can’t whine unless you’ve taken your medicine. I’ve taken my medicine, so I’m whining, but you are correct. In the hierarchy of things that are terrible, actually getting shingles. Okay, so this has been a new way of thinking for me this year. You know, people are always saying, how do I get help from my family? How do I? And I,

Kathi (03:20.126)
I don’t want to ban the word help because we all need help. But help is not the word that I feel like we should be looking for, whether it’s with a partner, a spouse, a roommate, older kids. It’s not about help. It’s about we as a living together community agree on a standard of living. And

Tonya Kubo (03:22.604)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi (03:46.662)
I wanna know how that hits you, because this is the one we’ve probably talked about the least, but how does that idea hit you?

Tonya Kubo (03:57.708)
So it’s funny is because I get the question on a deep level because I’m still a mom in the active stage of parenting, right? And I understand how moms feel like everything is on their shoulders. And sometimes we get so sucked in to what I’m gonna call the murder feeling, right? That we forget that we can make some changes, right? And so when you were talking…

Kathi (04:03.794)
Yes. Right. 100%.

Kathi (04:11.404)
right.

Kathi (04:18.066)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (04:24.078)
Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (04:26.832)
recently about this agreement on the standard of living. It just reminded me of early in my clutter journey, just the importance of vocabulary, because I had just been, in my mind, we were living in a small space. It was one of those model homes, which you could tell they actually built for nobody to live in. So it just didn’t, like, everything about that house did not make sense. But it was one of those things where we had, it was such a small space, we had so much stuff.

Kathi (04:48.33)
Yeah. Hehehehe.

Tonya Kubo (04:56.488)
Like we needed to pull stuff out of the house in order to be able to do anything inside the house. And the only place we could put stuff is in the garage, but the garage was overfilled with all sorts of stuff. And for like, we lived there for a year and a half. And I was like, I, we need the garage cleaned up. We need the garage cleaned up. I want to park my car in the garage. And that’s what I kept saying, right? Cause I had this little girl dream of parking my car in the garage. I’ve mentioned on the podcast before Brian did not have the same little girl dream. And so,

Kathi (05:01.794)
Yeah.

Kathi (05:18.786)
Yep.

Tonya Kubo (05:26.096)
You know, he was just like, he was tone deaf. He wouldn’t do anything. And I was so frustrated. And if only he would help me clean the garage, then I could tackle the rest of the house. Right? And so we were at such a stalemate on this and I was getting really bitter, really resentful. And we were having a conversation. I don’t even, I can’t even tell you the whole conversation, but what came up in that conversation is he did not believe garages were for parking carts.

Kathi (05:53.115)
Oh, you guys systemically believe different things from your gut. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (05:57.972)
We had an yes, we had a different internalized use, ideal use for our garage. For him, garages were your storage space. And for me, they were where you parked your car. And so once I realized that, then I was able to change the conversation from you need to get all this done so I can park my car in the garage to, you know what, you’re right.

That is a great place for us to store stuff, especially since we live in this tiny house. However, the way that stuff is stored, boxes on top of boxes, they’ve fallen over, that we pick them back up, the stuff inside is getting damaged. It’s not a safe place to store our stuff anymore. And that resonated, because he knew he had valuable things in there. And so once I said that, he was like, oh.

Kathi (06:48.886)
Right.

Tonya Kubo (06:52.22)
Okay, you’re right. And then the next conversation, he was like, but when it gets to your stuff, like I don’t know what to do. Like it’s overwhelming. And so I said, well, I can, I, so I walked out with him into the garage and I, there was like 13 boxes that I have been moving since college, right? And I’m just like, I can tell you right now, based on what they look like, that box, that box, that box, they can go. I don’t want to know what’s inside of them. I haven’t looked inside of them since I left college. I’m good. If you find a way,

Kathi (06:58.571)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi (07:15.954)
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (07:21.536)
for them to leave the property, I promise you I will never say a single thing about it. And so that’s how we got the space, right? So we moved my 13 boxes, then we had the space to organize in the way that we needed to in order to do the rest of the house. Very long answer to your short question, Kathy.

Kathi (07:29.389)
Yeah.

Kathi (07:39.03)
No, no, but you know what? This is something that needs to be discussed because it is, you know, sometimes it’s a fundamental difference in language. Sometimes it’s, you know, somebody’s on the spectrum and they can’t make those kinds of decisions. But I think that it’s important to say, it’s to change our language from I need your help

to we have to figure this out together. And I think it’s also important to be able to say, the way we’re living right now is hard on me, emotionally, physically, whatever it is, mentally, and to be able to work towards that. So you did a couple of things. You said you…

Tonya Kubo (08:13.204)
Yes.

Kathi (08:35.002)
you know, when you were first having these discussions with Brian, that you had to focus on your own stuff. Uh, you had to, because I see oftentimes that people are frustrated with other people in their house, where, um, they could be making some room on their own. So how did, how did, how did you focus on your own stuff without resentment? Or maybe you had resentment, I don’t know.

Tonya Kubo (08:40.212)
Yes.

Tonya Kubo (09:02.2)
It’s funny. So, you know, it’s like, what’s your kryptonite? Right. That’s, that’s the start is you like, you got to know what your kryptonite is. And so in our early in our marriage, the kryptonite that we had was that we had both been married before. And oftentimes we did not have a Tonya and Brian conflict. We had a Brian and his ex-wife conflict. I was just the stand in, right. Or a Tonya and her ex-husband conflict, but Brian was the stand in. So and I

Kathi (09:05.326)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Kathi (09:14.861)
Right?

Kathi (09:20.619)
Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (09:30.204)
I used to call it ghosts of marriages past. And so one of the ghosts of marriages past that we had was that he had a house, like his ex-wife had a house that she let Brian live in. So Brian had none of his own stuff. He couldn’t make any decisions on what the house looked like. So anytime I said anything about his things, that’s what he heard.

Kathi (09:33.514)
Yeah.

Kathi (09:45.346)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (09:57.391)
Okay

Tonya Kubo (09:57.92)
And you know, like you’ve been in those situations where you’re like talking to somebody else, it doesn’t have to be a spouse, but you’re talking to somebody and you’re like, okay, I don’t know who they’re mad at, but it’s not me. Cause I’ve never said anything that warrants this reaction. And so as we were going through, so your book, Clutter Free, there’s a part in there that talks about negotiating space over stuff and how it’s easy to see clutter in somebody else’s stuff. And I was like, well, you know, I’m the daughter of a hoarder. I’ve got enough of my own stuff.

Kathi (10:06.964)
Right, I-

Kathi (10:10.402)
Yes.

Kathi (10:17.556)
Right.

Kathi (10:27.116)
Yes.

Tonya Kubo (10:27.38)
And so back to that garage example, what else was in that garage was his like ginormous Star Wars collection. I could have easily said, you need to take those 15 boxes because it’s 15 boxes and you need to put those against the wall and did it did it right. That would have been easy. But I was just like, no, if we’re going to make space in this garage, it’s going to be my stuff that goes first. Right. And, and then it was for him.

Kathi (10:34.507)
Yes.

Tonya Kubo (10:53.156)
It wasn’t conscious, but he was just like, oh, there’s all this space now that Tanya stuffs out of here. Because he has ADHD, he just got on a roll and he was like, let’s make more space. And then his stuff went.

Kathi (10:55.016)
Right.

Kathi (11:05.406)
Ooh, okay, yeah. Okay, you know, this is so interesting to me because I mean, this is probably one of the questions that comes up most in, you know, and I know you said one of the other trends is about not wanting to leave stuff behind for older kids, you know, because our stuff has to go somewhere. So a couple of points is that

Tonya Kubo (11:17.918)
Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:26.769)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi (11:33.422)
I think that one of the things that’s important is in our house, we need to agree on that standard of living. So if Tanya and I were living together and Tanya says, you know what, I just do so much better when the house is picked up, the counters are clear, that kind of thing. And I’m like, yeah, that doesn’t really affect me. Like I can be, I can live in my squalor and it’s just fine.

Tonya Kubo (11:40.524)
Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:57.696)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi (12:03.17)
But here’s the thing, I love Tanya. And so I need to figure out why I’m not willing to make my housemate happy. Why I’m not willing to, you know, now also, Tanya may be, her idea of neat and tidy, may be a disorder. Like it may be OCD or something like that.

Tonya Kubo (12:16.14)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi (12:30.226)
And so I think it’s really important to understand, is it, you know, we haven’t agreed on our standard of living? Is it a personal situation? Maybe there is a disorder, or maybe I need things really picked up because I have mobility issues. And if I trip over something, that’s really bad. You know, so is it a personal issue one way or another, or?

Tonya Kubo (12:36.884)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (12:59.314)
is it a relationship issue? Because if Roger said, I like things really nice and neat, and I’m like, well, then you do it. Oh, that’s not a healthy relationship. And so, you know, we don’t usually get super deep and clutter-free, but this is the language we have to start using because, go ahead, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:11.654)
I… write!

Tonya Kubo (13:18.526)
Eh.

Tonya Kubo (13:22.888)
Yeah, well, I was just going to say, we don’t get super deep in Clutterfree Academy, right? It’s a huge group. It’s like 15,000 people. Woohoo! It’s like 15,000 of my best cluttery friends. But you know, it’s a big group. You just don’t know each other really well enough to go very deep. But we do go this deep over in Clutterfree for Life, our paid membership program.

Kathi (13:32.158)
Yeah, yeah. We’re so happy with that number. Yeah, yes, absolutely.

Kathi (13:43.115)
Right.

Tonya Kubo (13:48.992)
You know, that’s a smaller group, it’s about 300 people or so. And I think this is where you and me have really had the opportunity to see the difference between the relationship issue versus the vocabulary issue versus the medical issue, right? Cause we’ve seen that play out with our members. Our members are always so open and honest with us because we’re open and honest with them.

Kathi (13:49.111)
guess.

Kathi (14:05.047)
Yes.

Kathi (14:08.728)
Yes.

Kathi (14:14.286)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Tonya Kubo (14:17.265)
But I would say like that’s that is a place where we go deep

Kathi (14:21.182)
Yeah, and so, you know, if it’s a personal issue, I need to get personal help. If it’s a relationship issue, you know, you may say it’s just clutter, nothing is just, no, it’s just the physical manifestation of something not working in your life. And so it might take marriage counseling or counseling with you and your kid, and that’s okay because we all have things.

Tonya Kubo (14:35.028)
Nothing is just clutter.

Kathi (14:50.978)
We all have issues, and relationships have issues, and it’s okay to say, hey, we need help to get over this.

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by | Nov 7, 2023 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, community, DIY, Freedom, Getting Started, Hoarding, Home, Hope, How to, Overwhelmed, Podcast | 0 comments

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590 – Thrifting with Purpose: Tips and Strategies for Finding Gems and Reducing Clutter – Part 2

You might have heard of the Circle of Life but how about the Circle of Thrift?

In this part 2 episode, Kathi interviews full-time Pinterest employee and thrifting enthusiast Erin Handley. Erin and Kathi both have a love for a great thrift find and share personal stories about how thrifting has been a real benefit to them and their families through the years. Listen in as she and Kathi laugh and discuss some tips and tricks they have learned about thrifting, such as:

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Bonus: Erin shares her super secret thrifting tip of where, when, and how to find those special items you’re looking for!

Haven’t listened to 589 Thrifting with Purpose: Tips and Strategies for Finding Gems and Reducing Clutter – Part 1? Click here.

Join the free Clutter Free Academy group on Facebook! 

Be sure to sign up here and be notified when the next episode is released.

 

 

The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home

Homesteading [hohm-sted-ing]
noun
1. an act or instance of establishing a homestead.
2. the act of loving where you live so much that you actively ignore the fact that your house is trying to kill you on a regular basis.

For Kathi Lipp and her husband, Roger, buying a house in one of the most remote parts of Northern California was never part of the plan; many of life’s biggest, most rewarding adventures rarely are.

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Order your copy of The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home here.

Links Mentioned:

Erin Handley on the Leading Bold Podcast

Erin Handley on Instagram

Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group

Kathi’s Favorites:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

How do feel about thrifting? Share your answer in the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

  • Leave a note in the comment section below.
  • Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

Meet Our Guest 

 

Erin Handley

Erin Handley is a passionate member of the Lead Bold Team and is fortunate to be their podcast coordinator! When she isn’t serving alongside awesome women ministry leaders, she works full-time at Pinterest and has been in Talent Acquisition and HR for over 10 years. She lives in the San Francisco Bay Area and can be found most weekends with her husband and pup at a thrift store, flea market, antique mall and more – no garage sale is safe. Visit her at leadingboldpodcast.org.

 
Transcript

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