629 How to Incorporate Vintage Finds Without the Clutter

What are some creative ways you display vintage collections without overwhelming a space?

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Meet Our Guest

Hilary Prall

Hilary Prall is the creative mind behind Hilary Prall Blog, an online destination for vibrant, eclectic interior design. Hilary’s passion is creating unique, beautiful spaces that work for real-life budgets. Through her website and digital channels, she shares her colorful home design, DIY ideas, and a penchant for repurposing thrifted items with inspo-seekers all over.

Hilary’s design brightens the feeds of almost 40k fans on Instagram and Facebook. She has been featured regularly on Des Moines NBC affiliate WHO-TV, home retailer blogs, and several online magazines. She offers an array of affordable digital products that provide design help with the click of a mouse.

Before starting Hilary Prall Blog in 2015, Hilary spent years at a job that wasn’t her true calling. That experience, though, is what drives her enthusiasm for encouraging others to pursue their dreams and supporting other entrepreneurs.

A life that blends work, creative interests, and family provides ongoing inspiration as Hilary and husband Jason (with support from Cooper the corgi and Sheldon + Howard the cats) turn the transformation of their builder-grade ranch home into endless sources of design ideas. When she’s not tinkering at home, the next best bets are thrifting, road-tripping, trying a locally-owned restaurant, or enjoying the outdoors.

Visit her at www.hilaryprall.com.

Transcript

Kathi (00:01.381)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy, where our heart is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And we are back. If you didn’t get to hear last week’s episode with designer Hilary Prall,

and content creator, and she’s just fabulous, you guys. You just need to go check her out. Go take a listen to that, because I think that that was a really rich and interesting conversation. Hilary is the daughter of a hoarder and has had to walk through that journey. And as many of you know, both Tonya and I have walked through that journey as well. And to get a little bit of an idea of what you can and cannot do in that journey.

Hilary Prall (00:32.557)

You

Kathi (01:00.549)

But today I want to tap into the other side of Hilary’s life and that is about the design side and You know Hilary I’m sure you said that you’re still going through some of your mom’s things like you’re still working on that situation in your life and That’s been kind of exhausting and I thought it was such an interesting point when we are surrounded by so much clutter

whether it’s ours or somebody else’s, it really can deplete you artistically, creatively, emotionally. Is that what you’ve been going through the past couple of years?

Hilary Prall (01:44.907)

Yeah, I think I just, I mean, aside from just, you know, the suddenness of losing my mom, but then knowing that I was gonna have to deal with all of this stuff. And it feels very lonely. I mean, people will offer to help you, but they have no idea. And we have had very helpful people in it. The sort of…

part of this is that my mom had gotten remarried and we love him and are very thankful to have him in our lives. We’re his only family. He’s our only family at this point. But it’s his house. And so, you know, whereas most people we would have sorted through everything and then had an auction or an estate sale, we have had to work around him and schlepping it and, you know,

Kathi (02:26.853)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hilary Prall (02:38.794)

my husband likes to be very efficient and not touch things three times or four times. And it was, you know, and we’ve sort of had to deal with him saying, it’s totally fine. And he has been very patient, but then he would get a wild hair and like clear out a whole section of stuff and shove it in a closet. And so it’s like, so now I have to re go through that closet. So just kind of, you know, that part of, and then she lived an hour away. So just a lot of things that made.

Kathi (02:42.853)

Right.

Kathi (03:00.261)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:07.977)

made it all just a little bit harder. It’s like, you know, couldn’t something be a little easier? So we have the bulk of it done now. The other thing is we had to go through every box because it was just, she did try to get organized several times. And so there would be stuff mixed in that shouldn’t have been and whatever. So we have the bulk of it done to the point that the rest can easily be.

Kathi (03:13.797)

Right.

Kathi (03:20.933)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:33.161)

donated or taken to auction in just one of our vehicles. We had to rent a moving truck for the big auction. And then she just had a lot of jewelry. So I have taken, I think, three loads now to a local jewelry store to have to sell the metal. She had a lot of costume, but also, I mean, it’s worth money, the gold. So I probably have one.

Kathi (03:39.429)

Yeah.

Kathi (03:44.549)

Hmm.

Kathi (03:52.869)

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (04:00.392)

maybe one more, two more loads to take of that. So just the time that it takes. So it takes all your free time. And so, you know, I would do whatever work I could during the week that I felt like doing for myself, for my own business, keeping our house running. And then, you know, we really tried on the weekends to get down there and do some work. So.

Kathi (04:08.677)

Yeah.

Kathi (04:15.973)

Yeah.

Kathi (04:23.205)

Hilary, let me ask you a question before we dive into the design and decorating side of things. I was just listening to a great person on TikTok whose mother suddenly passed away. And she said she was giving advice for any parents out there about wills and estates and trusts and things like that. It was great, really terrific advice. I would love to hear from you as somebody who is going through the thick of it.

What would your top piece of advice be for somebody like your mom? Like, is there a list she could have left? What could she have done to make this a little bit easier? We know she wasn’t gonna get herself organized, but is there something she could have done? And then what would be your top piece of advice for somebody who’s in your situation, who’s going into a hoarder’s house? Who, what?

Hilary Prall (05:10.631)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:20.677)

I would love those two pieces of advice.

Hilary Prall (05:24.966)

So I think both pieces of advice can work for both parties. So number one, we’ve talked about this a whole bunch. Thankfully, my mom left us some money to work with. There was money in the estate, but no matter what you’re doing to get rid of stuff, it costs money. Dumpsters cost money. You can take stuff to the Goodwill or whatever, but when you’re talking about a hoarder’s house,

Kathi (05:29.029)

Okay.

Kathi (05:37.765)

Okay.

Hilary Prall (05:52.485)

And I know people think about hoarders as being dirty. My mom wasn’t like that. I think she could have gone down that road had she not gotten remarried. It was just such tremendous volumes of stuff. Some of it, you know, there was mold involved and things like that. But you have to somehow get it to wherever it’s going. And you can’t. It’s not just going to be a, you know, a few loads to goodwill. Number one, they don’t want all that stuff in one trip.

Kathi (05:52.581)

Yeah.

Kathi (05:57.893)

Yeah.

Kathi (06:20.357)

Right.

Hilary Prall (06:21.509)

but you have to somehow get rid of it. Thankfully we lived close enough that it was reasonable, but if you lived out of state, I don’t know what people would do if you’re not close. I mean, so have some money set aside, I guess. If you are not the parent and you’re the person who you know you’re gonna have to deal with this, I would start maybe talking to figure out.

Kathi (06:30.021)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (06:37.029)

Yes.

Hilary Prall (06:47.492)

Where’s my local auction? Who does the state sales? Now, again, other situations, you might be able to have someone come in and do the auction there or whatever. And a lot of times with hoarders, if it’s bad, the stuff’s not salvageable. So you could call, like you can hire 1 -800 -GOT -JUNK, but maybe just come up with a game plan of some sort of how you are gonna liquidate it because it is a lot and it’s a lot of work and it’s, you know,

Kathi (07:01.125)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (07:14.373)

Mmm.

Hilary Prall (07:17.156)

Again, you don’t want to, I don’t like to ask for help. That’s my personality, but at some point we just needed some bodies to help us get stuff upstairs and not completely break our bodies and burn out. So just how you’re gonna deal with it, the finances, what that looks like. We’ve spent a lot of money just trying to get rid of stuff, which seems crazy.

Kathi (07:21.893)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:30.629)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:42.949)

It does.

Hilary Prall (07:44.611)

The other thing that I think would be helpful, luckily, like I have said, I love old stuff. I have always loved old stuff. A lot of the stuff I have now acquired that was family, I looked at at my grandma’s house when she had it. And so I would just pour through stuff. So I knew what was a lot of family stuff. My sister would have had no idea, because she doesn’t care about that stuff. I wish I would have asked or,

Kathi (07:59.973)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (08:13.282)

enforced a little bit more with my mom, please write down the history of this or who did this belong to. Because at a certain point, not that it matters, you know, like 50 years from now, I’m not going to care if my nieces keep everything that was mine. And I don’t think that our ancestors think that you should. But it is important to you know, if something’s really important or has provenance, you should

Kathi (08:18.085)

Hmm, yeah.

Kathi (08:30.597)

Right.

Kathi (08:34.405)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (08:40.546)

want to know those stories. And I did know some of it, but I wish either my mom had done more or I had asked more about it because she held on to those things so tightly that we didn’t know a lot of the stories behind them. There are things that I remember from my childhood, even from our own house that I wanted to hold on to, but I just wish I knew a little bit more of the history behind some of the stuff.

Kathi (09:02.565)

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, my mom is putting Post -it notes under things. And just to say a little bit about where she got that milk glass or whatever the thing is. And like, she is, you know, for a long time when I would go visit her, she would say, don’t throw away the milk glass. You can sell it, or you can keep it, but don’t throw it away. And I’m like, okay, mom.

Hilary Prall (09:10.241)

Okay, yeah.

Hilary Prall (09:15.905)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (09:27.36)

Yep. Yep.

Kathi (09:28.869)

I’m learning about milk glass. I promise but you know, I just want to hear I want I want everybody who is in our clutter free Listening audience to hear what Hilary has said that Your mom who I’m sure was a lovely but complicated person Left you with a task that has left you feeling alone and

Hilary Prall (09:31.904)

Yes.

Kathi (09:58.341)

I don’t think any of us would wish that upon our children. And so to hear what Hilary is saying, if there are things that you can do right now, if there are things you can get rid of right now, if there are the stories that you can tell about those items so that your child or whomever is, your nieces, your nephews, your grandkids, whomever it is, they don’t.

End up feeling alone. I think that would be list. That would be a great service that you have provided here Hilary Okay, I want to talk about more fun things. Let’s talk about fun Okay So I want you love vintage. I think a lot of our cluttery people do I think one of the things and when I say cluttery people I count myself as as one of those people so i’m not pointing any finger. Well, if i’m pointing fingers i’m pointing them back at me but

Hilary Prall (10:29.211)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:56.517)

I think we, a lot of cluttery people have a real deep appreciation for vintage. And that’s why it is hard for us to get rid of things. So how do you incorporate your love for vintage into your designs in a way that promotes a healthy clutter -free living space? Because it can be really easy to do too much or keep things just because they were old. But how do you incorporate it into a way,

that it’s not just lovable, but livable.

Hilary Prall (11:30.014)

I will say we don’t have children, so it makes it a lot easier. I think if you have little kids running around, you’re not gonna have all of this stuff. That’s just how it is. We do have three active pets, so I have to be okay if things get broken or whatever. I have a few things even right now that…

Kathi (11:32.997)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (11:38.725)

Right.

Kathi (11:46.437)

Yes.

Hilary Prall (11:53.79)

I know I need to change out just because of how we live and I’m tired of messing with it. I think that’s part of it is if you if it’s constantly bringing you angst or whatever, then reevaluate it. You know, I really try to keep our bedroom very calm, very clutter free. And sometimes it’s just the addition of one extra thing that can just that’s it. I need to I need to clear the decks. So.

Kathi (12:21.957)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (12:23.101)

I think for me, I don’t ever want people to feel like they have to be overly careful. Last week, we have a cleaning lady that comes every couple of weeks and she does a great job considering how much nonsense I have. And so just very absentmindedly, she was here and I was out talking while she was working and I was just going through and fluffing my stuff because I’m also a little OCD.

Kathi (12:28.741)

Hmm.

Kathi (12:32.773)

Yeah.

Kathi (12:37.797)

Hahaha!

Hilary Prall (12:50.076)

And she said, I’m sorry. She said, I can’t ever remember how your stuff goes back. I said, do not worry about that. That’s on me. That is for me to go through and be fidgety about. So I think just manage your expectations. I mean, do you want people to feel comfortable in your house? Then, you know, they have to be able to live with your stuff. Plenty of people. I have an Instagram friend that has the most incredible home.

Kathi (13:10.917)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (13:18.587)

and I was lucky enough to go and visit it and it is museum worthy. But also I think it’d be really hard to add anybody else to that house. So I think it does have to depend on what your, and he would say that, so I think it’s okay. But you have to be okay with whatever your situation is and what it can accommodate, I guess.

Kathi (13:23.365)

Hmm.

Kathi (13:32.357)

Mm -hmm. Yes.

Kathi (13:42.117)

I love that it’s being realistic about how you live so you can be realistic about how you design, how you bring things in and living with what you love. Guys, we’re gonna take a quick break and then when we come back, I wanna talk to Hilary about what advice she would give to somebody that she was helping with designs who struggles with clutter. We’re gonna take a quick break and then we’ll come back with that.

Hilary Prall (13:47.098)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:12.293)

Okay friends, we are back and Hilary knows our cluttery hearts. She knows our cluttery spaces. And so if you were working with a client, what advice would you give to somebody who tends towards clutter? Do you have any really practical ideas or solutions or maybe some inspiration for them?

Hilary Prall (14:27.962)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (14:33.689)

I think honestly the first thing is clear the decks a little bit. Take everything out if you’re redoing a space. If you’re unsure about something, put it in a tub and if you don’t care about it a month from now, three months from now, it can move on. It can find somewhere else to live. I also think same with clothing. If you’re tired of wearing something but you hold on to it because, I might use that, well, when you’re ready to use it,

maybe just go buy something new. Say I over the last three years have lost over 70 pounds. So I don’t need to hold on to those old clothes because I’m gonna buy something new. Life is very, very short. So I don’t think that you need to hold on to every last detail of everything. Keep the sentimental pieces. Part of…

Kathi (15:04.869)

Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (15:11.173)

Wow.

Mm -hmm. Right.

Hilary Prall (15:29.369)

Part of going through my mom’s stuff was I’ve really sifted through. So I’ve, you’ve touched every single thing. And I have an entire closet downstairs plus some overflow of family things that I’ve brought home. My sister needs to come through and go through them. And then the rest of it, I’m gonna pick the things that I really care about and the rest I’m gonna try to reach out to the historical society of where my grandma’s from and, you know, kind of liquidate some stuff that way. But, cause I…

Kathi (15:35.685)

Mmm.

Kathi (15:54.181)

yeah.

Hilary Prall (15:57.816)

They’re important things, but also I don’t need to keep them. So not everything has to be kept. Not everything in my house should be important to my nieces and nephews down the road. You know, it’s just not everything is sentimental.

Kathi (16:03.109)

Right.

Kathi (16:15.845)

Yes, and so I love that thought that yes, this is important history, but my house is not a museum. And, you know, we can take pictures. You’ve given me two ideas that I’ve never really considered auction houses and your grandmother’s local historical society. You know, is this something? Yeah. Tell me more about that.

Hilary Prall (16:38.839)

Yeah, they’re actually, yeah. So they’re, well, and this is just because I grew up going to this. There are a couple of, I think, there are always historical societies. So, I mean, they’re always looking for things. They want to have curated, you know, whatever. There’s a big event that we would go to every year. And I can specifically remember there is a whole little room or house devoted to scary old dolls, which I don’t want.

Kathi (16:47.173)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:07.173)

Mm -hmm, right.

Hilary Prall (17:07.958)

But I have two of my grandmas and I have her little baby buggy and that would be a great thing to give them. And, you know, my grandpa was a farmer down there and I mean, they, they want that stuff. They want ephemera and you know, all the things that for all intents and purposes, I will never really look at again, but I have all of this stuff. So unless I want to display it or really feel like I’m going to look at it again, I just, I don’t need that heaviness. But.

Kathi (17:19.205)

Yes.

Kathi (17:27.557)

Right.

Hilary Prall (17:37.973)

I didn’t want to make a rash decision while I was going through things and just pitch it. Because I did get rid of a few things that I kind of am like, shoot. But also, I’m not gonna let that, yeah.

Kathi (17:40.293)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:47.909)

Mm hmm. Well, that’s gonna happen with the amount of stuff you had to deal with. You’re gonna get you’re gonna get rid of a few things that, you know, maybe but we can’t let that keep us from getting rid of the things that are going to stop us from living. And, you know, when we bought this house, and you don’t know anything about my story, but we bought a house in the middle of the woods, like, and the people we bought it from,

Hilary Prall (17:54.293)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (18:06.196)

No.

Hilary Prall (18:14.58)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (18:17.893)

they left a lot of their stuff here, including an antique water stand that we love and they loved it, but they had no place for it. Their kids had no place for it. And so the agreement we left with was if I ever decide to get rid of it, I call them. And if they don’t want it, then it’s up to me to get rid of it. And I was fine with that. And another thing that they…

Hilary Prall (18:29.236)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (18:36.148)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (18:45.221)

They had this giant list of all these things that they were leaving with us, but one thing they were not leaving was an IKEA table. And we’re like, well, that’s odd. You left all this other stuff. Why are you taking the IKEA table? Come to find out this IKEA table was from the original IKEA in… Yes, it was the IKEA in Europe. And it was bought, I think, either in the 40s or 50s and shipped to the United States.

Hilary Prall (18:54.099)

Hilary Prall (19:04.339)

IKEA.

Hilary Prall (19:11.795)

Okay.

Kathi (19:14.085)

And so that’s a part of their family history. And we love that story so much, and they still sell that brand of table at IKEA. We bought that, we bought the 2019 version of it. And you can still have the story without having the object. And to be able to carry that on is great. When do you know that your passion,

Hilary Prall (19:22.322)

Okay, yeah. that’s awesome.

Hilary Prall (19:29.778)

Yeah, yeah.

Hilary Prall (19:35.09)

Absolutely.

Kathi (19:42.757)

for board games or paint by numbers has gotten out of control. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, guys, she mentioned these in the last episode. But how do you know when it’s enough?

Hilary Prall (19:55.634)

Well, I have stipulations so for the the paint by numbers I don’t want although I just bought one that doesn’t doesn’t align with this but it’s it’s so different that it’s okay, but I Don’t really like people in them. I don’t like eyes So they have to sort of fit my colors and I want them to be pretty well done You know the board games I don’t

Kathi (20:05.577)

We won’t judge you.

Kathi (20:13.125)

Mmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (20:22.417)

I have shelves that I could stack them on, but part of the display is that I’ve hung a lot of them on the wall as display. So I don’t know, is there an end to something? I would say as long as it’s not stressing you out, you’re not putting yourself in financial distress, you can still walk in your house, I suppose it’s okay.

Kathi (20:28.261)

yes.

Kathi (20:41.253)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (20:44.625)

But if you can no longer enjoy your stuff, that is for me genuinely it. I wanna look at it. I wanna look at it. I wanna enjoy it. I love my stuff, but I don’t wanna have to put it in a tote and think about it randomly. So for me, I don’t wanna store stuff. I want it out and about. And as far as like my family stuff, one thing I did wanna say is just because my mom had it or my grandma had it,

Kathi (20:44.805)

Yeah.

Kathi (20:55.461)

Yeah.

Kathi (21:00.677)

Right, right.

Hilary Prall (21:14.096)

I want to collect my own stuff. I have a whole life ahead of me. I very easily from the loss that has happened in my life could easily think, gosh, I don’t have a life left. But I have a lot of years left hopefully and I have a lot of collecting to do. So I want to have room to collect my own things. I don’t want to have to just have my mom’s stuff.

Kathi (21:16.389)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (21:28.997)

Guess.

Kathi (21:38.021)

I love that. And you said you want to enjoy your stuff, but you also want to enjoy your space. And I think that’s the perfect balance for what we’re talking about. To be able to enjoy your stuff and be able to put your, enjoy your space and to have some guidelines. I love your guidelines for your paint by numbers. It can’t have people, it can’t have I, and you said, but that you said there was an exception to that that you just bought.

Hilary Prall (21:44.431)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (21:48.399)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:54.639)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:59.759)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (22:03.695)

Yeah.

Kathi (22:04.709)

but you must have loved it so much that you were willing to break your own rule. And I think that’s the reason we have rules and guidelines to keep us kind of contained. But then we know when something is outside of that and that’s really special. Hilary, you’ve given us so much to think about. Where would you like people most to seek you out? Is it through your website, through Instagram? Where should people go find you?

Hilary Prall (22:09.295)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:14.415)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (22:29.807)

Instagram first, I hang out there a lot. I’m in stories a lot there, that’s what I love. I love to be able to connect with people that way. So I would say definitely Instagram. From there you can find me anywhere, but also if they go to my website, I have a pop -up to join my email list. I email once a week. I really try to share something there that I’m not sharing anywhere else, so it’s definitely bonus material, bonus content. And…

Kathi (22:33.797)

Yeah. Okay.

Kathi (22:42.181)

Okay.

Kathi (22:51.973)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:58.766)

Yeah, I just really, as I have walked through this, the people who have reached out to me saying, I had to go through this, I’m going through this, I’m going to have to go through this, you know, and I think just the self -realization that we can all kind of struggle with it. I’ve had a few messages that were kind of rude, you know, saying this is a mental illness, you know, but I understand. I 100 % understand and I watched my mom struggle with it.

Kathi (23:10.757)

Yeah.

Kathi (23:23.589)

Yeah. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (23:27.629)

overtly for 20 years. You know, so I would be the last person to judge anybody about it, but it would be wonderful if people could seek the help that they, that I’m assuming is out there. I know people specialize in it, but also, you know, if you’re going through it with a family member, I know that, you know, it genuinely is like drugs or alcohol. I mean, I would try to explain that to my husband. It was really hard for him to understand it.

Kathi (23:29.893)

Yeah.

Kathi (23:40.133)

Right.

Kathi (23:50.149)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (23:54.349)

And you know, I know people sometimes do have to just walk away from a situation. Luckily, I didn’t have to do that with my mom, but you have to have some boundaries and anyway, so.

Kathi (24:01.445)

Yeah.

100 % yeah, you know, lots of times with hoarders, they want you to hold on to their stuff. They want you to be a part of it. And just because one person suffers from hoarding doesn’t mean there aren’t other sufferers surrounding them. And, you know, can we acknowledge both as victims? I think that that’s a really important thing that you’re saying here. There’s more than one victim.

Hilary Prall (24:22.123)

Yes, absolutely.

Hilary Prall (24:30.123)

Absolutely.

Kathi (24:33.701)

Hilary, I love the compassion you have for your mom while also speaking the truth. Guys, she’s got tears in her eyes and as the fellow daughter of a hoarder, I feel those tears. I’m further removed than she is. She’s in the thick of it right now. So I wanna say an extra thank you for being here and sharing your story with us. Thank you so much. Okay.

Hilary Prall (24:58.475)

Absolutely, yeah. Thanks.

Kathi (25:01.637)

Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutterfree Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#647 The Shame-Free Path to Conquering Clutter

647 – The Shame-Free Path to Conquering ClutterHey friends! Have you ever felt so ashamed of your home that you would rather hide than invite anyone over? In this powerful episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep into the emotional...

#646 Why Your House Won’t Stay Clean: Breaking Free from the Clutter Cycle

646 – Why Your House Won't Stay Clean: Breaking Free from the Clutter CycleHey there, friend! You know that feeling when you've spent an entire weekend decluttering, only to find your house looking exactly the same three weeks later? You are definitely not alone! In...

#645 Reclaiming Your Space: Your First Steps to a Clutter-Free Life

645 – Reclaiming Your Space: Your First Steps to a Clutter-Free LifeHey there, friends! Have you ever struggled with an overwhelming burden of household clutter? There is hope! In this episode of the Clutter Free Academy podcast, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive...

www.instagram.com/hilaryprall

#628 How to Curate Your Life: The Way to Love Things Without Drowning in Them

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 30, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

628 How to Curate Your Life:

The Way to Love Things Without Drowning in Them

Hey there, friends! Have you ever struggled with finding the balance between loving vintage and clutter?

In this enlightening episode of Clutter Free Academy, host Kathi Lipp welcomes designer and content creator Hilary Prall. Kathi and Hilary explore the challenges of breaking free from generational clutter habits and finding a balance between loving vintage items and maintaining an organized home. As the daughter of a hoarder, Hilary offers valuable insights on curating spaces, letting go of sentimental items, and developing strategies to resist hoarding tendencies.

Listeners will discover:

How to set clear goals
How to understand personal limits when it comes to collecting
The importance of displaying and enjoying items rather than storing them away

This episode offers a unique perspective on the intersection of design, organization, and personal growth, making it a must-listen for anyone struggling with clutter or seeking to create a more intentional living space.

Click here to be notified when Part 2 of this interview with Hilary Prall is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.hilaryprall.com

www.hilaryprall.com/blog

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

How do you balance your love for vintage items with maintaining a clutter-free space?

Share in the comments!

Let’s stay connected

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Meet Our Guest

Hilary Prall

Hilary Prall is the creative mind behind Hilary Prall Blog, an online destination for vibrant, eclectic interior design. Hilary’s passion is creating unique, beautiful spaces that work for real-life budgets. Through her website and digital channels, she shares her colorful home design, DIY ideas, and a penchant for repurposing thrifted items with inspo-seekers all over.

Hilary’s design brightens the feeds of almost 40k fans on Instagram and Facebook. She has been featured regularly on Des Moines NBC affiliate WHO-TV, home retailer blogs, and several online magazines. She offers an array of affordable digital products that provide design help with the click of a mouse.

Before starting Hilary Prall Blog in 2015, Hilary spent years at a job that wasn’t her true calling. That experience, though, is what drives her enthusiasm for encouraging others to pursue their dreams and supporting other entrepreneurs.

A life that blends work, creative interests, and family provides ongoing inspiration as Hilary and husband Jason (with support from Cooper the corgi and Sheldon + Howard the cats) turn the transformation of their builder-grade ranch home into endless sources of design ideas. When she’s not tinkering at home, the next best bets are thrifting, road-tripping, trying a locally-owned restaurant, or enjoying the outdoors.

Visit her at www.hilaryprall.com.

Transcript

Kathi (00:01.669)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our heart is to help you live with less clutter and more life. And today, I think this is gonna be a turning point episode for some of you. If you live with a hoarder,

If you grew up with a hoarder, if you have a hoarder in your extended family, today’s episode is for you. As many of you know, I grew up with a hoarder. Tanya, who is our most frequent co -host on here, also grew up with a hoarder. And I’ve got a new friend, guys. This is Hilary Prall. She is the creative mind behind Hilary Prall Vlog. It’s an online play. By the way, the website is gorgeous.

She had it’s it’s a vibrant like eclectic vibe I don’t even know how else to put it and if you guys are not seeing if you’re if you’re not watching this you’re just hearing this if You could just see Hillary’s background, you’d know what I was talking about, but we’re gonna put all the links in there She has featured regularly on the Des Moines NBC affiliate who TV She she’s all over the place on home retail block. So like I

Guys, she’s a designer. She’s got incredible style, but she has this part of her story that we’re going to dive deep into today. Hillary, welcome to the podcast.

Hilary Prall (01:38.988)

Hello, thank you for having me.

Kathi (01:41.125)

Well, I’m so excited because to Neil who is on my team introduced us and she she’s like you have to have Hillary on your podcast and I said say less and then I started to dig into what you’re all about. So tell us tell us what you’re about your day job. Let’s just start there. What’s your day job?

Hilary Prall (01:58.603)

Okay, yeah. My day job is basically content creation, digital content creation. And I feel like sort of part of where I am with my business ties into what we’ll talk about today with my mom, Justin. Things have sort of come to a little bit of a stall over the last couple of years working through things with my mom’s estate. But looking really forward to getting back on track of…

creating content and building a brand of business. I started out, I worked in retail for 20 years and I loved that, but it was nothing that I intended to do for so long. And I got started working with real estate agents and just local people doing some decorating and staging. Finally left my nine to five and pursued that full time.

Kathi (02:34.341)

you

Kathi (02:38.565)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (02:53.386)

as well as creating content online. And a couple of years ago, I thought, I can’t do both of these things to their fullest capacity. That’s not my personality. Like we talked about to Neil being able to do all the things. I am not able to do all the things. So I sort of pulled back from the decorating end and I could always go back to that. Not that I think that I will, but I wanted to see if I could harness what the internet had to offer for creating content, encouraging people.

Kathi (02:59.621)

Right?

Kathi (03:06.437)

Hehehe.

Kathi (03:19.589)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:22.569)

inspiring them. That’s truly what I enjoy doing. I think we all have so many shared experiences that it’s hard to connect sometimes with the right people and find people who are like us, who share our stories. And so that is a big part of what I do in my space. I am very real. I do share all the good things and all the bad things. So.

Kathi (03:36.164)

Yeah.

Kathi (03:46.757)

Yeah, I started following her on Instagram and she’s a good follow you guys. She really is very down to earth and realistic but also inspirational which is kind of a hard line to walk but this is why I really wanted to talk to you was because I think you have the life that many of us who feel like we’re drowning in clutter. Your life online, while it looks real, it also looks beautiful.

Hilary Prall (03:51.049)

Hehehe.

Kathi (04:16.549)

And I think that’s what we want, but so many of us have the story of either we were raised by a hoarder or maybe we have those tendencies ourselves and we just feel like there is no hope for us. And when I heard about your journey with your mom, I wanted to dig a little deeper. So your mom would be considered a hoarder?

Hilary Prall (04:41.256)

Yes, I think for all intents and purposes she would. I mean, it’s not, I don’t know the legal definition of what a hoarder is. So some, she, I would say she always had the tendency. She grew up in a family that she never felt like they had anything nice. You know, her parents were raised during the depression. So, you know, you definitely may do and there’s nothing wrong with that. But along with that came some really,

Kathi (04:46.053)

Right.

Kathi (04:54.437)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:02.629)

Yeah.

Right.

Hilary Prall (05:09.671)

tough things as well. And I know that even people from that generation took that and just ran with it to the nth degree. So I think, I think, you know, even early in my parents’ marriage, they didn’t have the finances probably that she would have wanted. And so she couldn’t buy everything that she wanted. And my dad helped her to keep that in check to some degree. But when he passed away in 2004, it was just like, it,

Kathi (05:30.245)

Right?

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (05:39.622)

I just felt like it just happened instantly, but it definitely had different waves of how it happened. It looked like her going to Target and shopping the clearance end caps and then, you know, whatever was on clearance, it was always, it wasn’t having something nice. It wasn’t like she went and bought one diamond ring. It was, you know, a hundred junky things.

Kathi (05:52.005)

Right.

Kathi (06:04.933)

Right.

Hilary Prall (06:05.829)

it was just to fill that void. She got really into home shopping network. I think just finding that connection with somebody. And then she got into thrifting, which we had grown up going to garage sales, but we didn’t really go to the thrift store. That wasn’t something that was like normal to us, but she really got into that Facebook marketplace, you know, whatever it was, wherever she could get a deal and she would drag stuff home. So,

Kathi (06:10.245)

Hmm.

Kathi (06:17.701)

wow.

Kathi (06:22.341)

Yeah.

Kathi (06:31.429)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (06:34.949)

The first sort of round of it was she ended up selling our childhood home to my sister and my brother -in -law on contract. So she had to clear out to move and then she moved into a townhouse and…

Part of, she filled it, obviously. But also during that time she was doing a lot of hiding. So she had a couple of relationships that she wasn’t totally honest with us about and was just really in hiding. I can count on two hands the number of times I was in that house. And every time I went there it was fuller and fuller and…

Kathi (06:55.493)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:05.637)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (07:12.261)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (07:18.34)

you know, there would be things like my wanted my childhood bedroom set and she couldn’t let go of that. That was hers. And just, I mean, she so I mean, it definitely was. I think that is a part of being a hoarder is everything is yours. You’re just gripping onto it so tightly. So she she quite filled that house and it was just a really big source of contention. From there, she did meet someone and.

Kathi (07:25.765)

Hmm.

Kathi (07:31.813)

Yeah. Right.

Hilary Prall (07:46.883)

was getting remarried in 2013 and we’re very happy and we were very honest with him. This is, you’re getting yourself into something here, but I don’t think you couldn’t, unless you’ve seen it or been involved in it, you can’t wrap your head around it. So we were able to get her moved from that house finally. She kept the house even after she got married for a couple of years, but then it was like, this is silly.

Kathi (07:55.557)

Right.

Kathi (08:00.261)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (08:13.125)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (08:13.155)

But that meant she filled two storage units. She filled his giant Morton building. She, you know, started filling his basement and then just continued. So it was a big issue within their marriage as well.

Kathi (08:27.877)

So first of all, it is just so heartbreaking because hoarders and it does, I mean, again, I’m not a clinical psychologist, but it does sound like she has the classic symptoms of hoarding. Mom, why are you keeping this? And there’s not really a good explanation, but to take it from her would be devastating.

Hilary Prall (08:41.953)

absolutely.

Hilary Prall (08:53.633)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (08:53.989)

and the buying things that they don’t need and the hiding and the anger at anybody trying to change anything or judge anything. And so it does sound like she has some of the classic hallmarks of hoarding. And there’s not a lot that family can do. There just isn’t. So part of my question is,

Hilary Prall (09:18.177)

No.

Kathi (09:23.877)

Why do you think that you did not go in the same direction? Why do you think or did you did you like part of my story is my dad was a hoarder and I started to hang on to too much stuff. And then I got to a point where it’s like, no, I can’t live like this. I can’t be, you know, for me, it was clutter. It wasn’t hoarding, but I could definitely see the tendencies in my life. So where did you fall on that scale?

Hilary Prall (09:28.992)

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (09:37.248)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (09:51.072)

Sure, I mean I definitely have the tendencies. I mean, you know, and I love vintage, I love old things. So it’s been difficult going through my mom’s stuff because she kept, my grandma came out of, you know, the Victorian era where you did literally keep everything, you know, and then she was in the depression. And so she kept not only like sentimental things but,

Kathi (09:54.565)

Yeah.

Kathi (09:58.245)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:09.829)

Right.

Hilary Prall (10:19.935)

useful things. And so when she passed away, my mom, her siblings came and they took, you know, the few things that they wanted. And then literally, I think she hauled everything else home. So in having to go through all of my mom’s stuff, you know, there’s also a lot of family stuff and it’s hard to, it’s hard to decide because I love old things. It’s not just that it was family stuff, but it’s old stuff. So I feel like it has meaning. Like I don’t want to just see it.

Kathi (10:21.143)

Right.

Kathi (10:45.765)

Right.

Hilary Prall (10:49.151)

go in a dumpster somewhere or whatever. I think the difference comes in that because I’ve had to deal with this, a lot of things have lost sentimentality. Definitely for my sister. She couldn’t care less about most things. I go through seasons. I’ve been taking things to auction myself. So part of how my business started was buying and reselling vintage. So it’s definitely in my

Kathi (10:59.045)

Mmm.

Kathi (11:03.781)

Yeah.

Kathi (11:16.325)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (11:18.974)

in my DNA and I would say anybody who buys and sells vintage, it’s a really hard thing to stop. So it just is and you have to, there’s nothing wrong with it, but when it starts to cause you stress is when, that’s when it bothers my husband. Okay, it’s stressing you out, you’re causing yourself stress.

Kathi (11:20.293)

Right.

Kathi (11:26.373)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi (11:37.125)

Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (11:42.558)

I have one room in our basement left that I’m working through, but I like to think that I don’t cling to things like she did. I’m willing to get rid of them. I try to give things to people who would enjoy them. I can see that it’s just stuff. So…

Kathi (11:50.949)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:00.681)

So we’re gonna take a quick break and when we come back I want to know how did you get to that point of knowing I love I really you know, I enjoy this I can appreciate it I may even love it, but I can’t keep everything so I would love to hear some of your thought process behind that and how you got to that point in your journey because as a designer as a decorator I

I bet you could imagine a use for almost anything and I would love to hear how you’re able to curate what you’re deciding to keep and what you’re giving away. So we will take a quick break and come right back.

Hey guys, we are back with Hilary Prall, who is a designer, a decorator, an online content creator, influencer, and daughter of a hoarder. And so we were just discussing, Hilary, how are you able to keep from keeping all the things?

Hilary Prall (13:06.587)

Number one, I try to keep what my goals are in mind. We have a goal of moving from our house eventually and moving to a town that we really love. And so the thought of having to move all of this stuff, we moved from a house that was half the size of our house now when we bought this house in 2018. And at that time I got rid of a lot of stuff. I collected…

Kathi (13:12.901)

Hmm.

Kathi (13:23.397)

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (13:35.355)

vintage Pyrex and I had so much you couldn’t imagine it. But I got rid of a lot because I thought I’m gonna have nowhere to put it and I don’t want to move it. So I do have that goal of eventually you know us downsizing. I don’t want to take care of a big house. It’s just the two of us and I just don’t want that to fill my mind and my space. I have gotten better in creating content. I do

Kathi (13:51.269)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (14:04.346)

some DIYs and things like that. So I would accumulate things at the thrift store that I think, this would be a good project or whatever. I can go to the thrift store any day of the week and find a project to do. So I’ve tried to keep that in mind that I don’t need to keep a stash of, unless it’s something really unique and cool, I don’t need to have a stash of things like that. I’m constantly getting rid of. So I think that’s important. That is, it’s an ever evolving door here, whether I’m giving it to friends or,

Kathi (14:14.853)

Hmm.

Kathi (14:21.573)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (14:34.298)

giving it to the thrift store, selling it, whatever that looks like. I do think you have to get over the part that you spent money on it. You can nickel and dime yourself to death. If it’s a really something that’s valuable, sell it. I have discovered it’s really easy to take stuff to our local auction house. So I can set up an appointment and just take the load and then they, whatever’s left, they liquidate. I don’t have to worry about it.

Kathi (14:42.245)

Yes, yes.

Hilary Prall (15:03.577)

So for me, that has become the best option for getting rid of a lot of stuff that to me has value. It’s not just garbage.

Kathi (15:10.949)

I think it’s great that you have found your path of least resistance and for you it’s the auction house and I think we all need to figure that out. Is it straight donation? Is it selling it on Facebook or Marketplace? What is it for you? And get really good at that and rinse and repeat, absolutely.

Hilary Prall (15:20.097)

Yeah. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (15:33.98)

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s, you know, I understand the guilt is there. So, okay, what does that do for you? You know, I mean, learn from it is all you can do. You know, maybe set a financial goal of something else that you would really enjoy and then, you know, sell your stuff or don’t buy new stuff.

Kathi (15:44.613)

Right, yes.

Hilary Prall (15:56.248)

Unfortunately, I probably would make a lot of environmentalists cry because I’m not doing a lot of recycling or you know, whatever. It just has to go. I think if you get that into your head, get rid of it. Just get rid of it. Don’t, you know, you’re not saving the planet in this one in this one moment. So I don’t, you know, one thing that my mom had was she would save. She had tons of medical.

Kathi (16:03.205)

Yeah.

Kathi (16:17.157)

Right.

Hilary Prall (16:24.599)

stuff that would come, whether it was a bill or insurance or whatever, and they always have that blank sheet of paper on the front of the back, and she would save it as scratch paper. She had more scratch paper than any one person could ever use, and so going through her stuff, I was like, gosh, I’m just gonna throw away all this scratch paper. It’s like, yes, just get rid of it, burn it, whatever.

Kathi (16:25.957)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (16:36.933)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (16:44.045)

Yeah. You know, I think, and I really do believe this is true, the best way for us to make an environmental impact is to choose who we’re buying from and what we’re buying. And instead of on the back end, once we already have the stuff and having to make those decisions. And we recycle, we bring out a big tub of recycling every single.

Hilary Prall (17:00.85)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:12.805)

But our community is set up for it and not all communities are. And so do what you can, but really if your biggest concern is the environment, it’s the not purchasing in the first place.

Hilary Prall (17:16.47)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (17:27.765)

Absolutely, and I would I would go a little bit further and say, you know, there’s even a new trend to like

I would say almost glamorize the reusable or the whatever. And so it’s almost like there’s an encouragement to like, okay, I have this bottle, but here’s this other bottle that’s really biodegradable and whatever. So you better throw away this bottle and go buy the other bottle. No, that’s no, you know, so then, but probably what would happen is you’d end up with like five of the bottles or whatever.

Kathi (17:42.501)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:52.197)

Right.

Kathi (17:56.549)

Yeah, it makes no sense.

Hilary Prall (18:05.396)

One thing my husband and I have done is just tried to focus on buying the best of whatever we’re buying. Buy at your top dollar. So hopefully it lasts and hopefully you’re just getting what you want. I think a big part of how hoarding can come about is that you feel like you’re never actually getting what you want. It’s the same with food addiction or whatever. You’re just not feeling fulfilled in it. So.

Kathi (18:11.045)

Mm. Right.

Yes.

Kathi (18:26.533)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, yeah. Right. Because that target clearance purchase fills a need in the moment, but it doesn’t fill a long -term need. It fills that high of buying something. And by the way, I totally resonate with that high of buying something. But for me, it could be the high of buying a Costco chicken. Like, there, I…

Hilary Prall (18:40.468)

Mm -hmm. nope.

Kathi (18:58.213)

To me, it’s the same thing. And it’s like, okay, but also I’m learning to say, you know what, there’s also a thrill in using what I have. There’s also a thrill in feeling like I’m being wise and clever and smart with what I actually have. So how do you, what’s the thing that you say to yourself when you are purchasing something or when you’re considering purchasing something?

How what you know from vintage items to maybe you know craft supply whatever that is Do you have like? This is why i’m buying it. Do you have questions you ask yourself? Do you have something? What’s that thought process so that you are not acquiring and by the way? I love what you said about keeping the end goal in mind If the end goal is to move if the end goal is to enjoy your house

Hilary Prall (19:50.994)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (19:57.17)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (19:57.477)

and not feel overstuffed. If your end goal is to save up for a vacation, those end goals do not align with buying the clearance stuff at Target 99 % of the time. So I love that. So I would love to know, how do you keep that end goal in mind? What do you say to yourself when you’re considering a purchase?

Hilary Prall (20:10.641)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (20:19.249)

Well, I need to do better about it. I feel like I go in shifts. So one thing that I try…

Kathi (20:22.021)

We all do.

Hilary Prall (20:30.129)

I’ll phrase it this way. One thing that I do try to do is I am a very out of sight, out of mind person. So that means if my stuff isn’t out on display for me to enjoy, I don’t even care about it. So I think that is a little bit different than hoarders because they can pinpoint exactly where everything is and they’re very still concerned with it.

Kathi (20:47.205)

Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Hilary Prall (20:54.192)

That doesn’t mean I don’t have stuff still in my house that I’m not using or enjoying, but that’s out of laziness or whatever. But I try to keep that in focus. If I’m not using certain things, they can go by the wayside. So as I bring things in, can I take something out that is similar or that I’m not loving anymore? You know, I have a basement that I love very different styles of vintage. So our basement is like,

Kathi (21:14.853)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:24.016)

bright and colorful and has vintage board games and things like that. I’ve reached my capacity of vintage board games, I think, unless there’s just something that’s outstanding. So I think knowing, I mean, where’s the end? What’s your end? What’s the limit? Because I know that I want to be able to display these things. It’s not that I want to put them in a room for a later date.

Kathi (21:32.773)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (21:40.389)

Right.

Hilary Prall (21:49.807)

I have an entire wall filled with vintage paint by numbers. I don’t have any more room for paint by numbers. So unless one is just fabulous, there’s no reason for me to bring that home. So curation, I have a lot of stuff, but I think for the most part, I know when things are getting out of hand because stuff starts to feel wonky or off kilter or too crowded.

Kathi (22:01.605)

Mmm. I love that. It’s curation. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:17.871)

I think for the most part I still have visual space around everything. A lot of stacks and things like that, but I also know that I really don’t hold tightly to anything. If someone came in and said, Hillary, you need to sell all this stuff, great, that’s totally fine. But I know that telling that to my mom, that wouldn’t have mattered. Yeah.

Kathi (22:17.925)

Mm.

Kathi (22:22.213)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (22:42.725)

No, it would have been a very different thing. I love where you have come from in your journey to this because I think that one of the things that us cluttery people know, I think this is a really good sign of health, that we can be extremists sometimes. Either I’m a hoarder or a minimalist. And I think that there is a happy place. As a cluttery person, I enjoy stuff.

Hilary Prall (23:06.094)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:12.709)

I really do, but I also know that too much stuff will really weigh me down. So there’s a sweet spot and it sounds like in your business, in your personal kind of thinking around stuff, you have found that sweet spot of I’m not a hoarder, I’m not a minimalist, I’m Hillary, I have found.

Hilary Prall (23:12.878)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (23:40.589)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:41.765)

what works for me and I can feel when I want something new in my house, I can also feel when there’s too much in my house and to let that guide you. I think that that’s really, really amazing. Hillary, this has been such a great conversation. I would love to bring you back and talk a little bit more about as somebody who understands clutter, as somebody who has lived with a hoarder and doesn’t want to be on that end of it,

but also somebody who makes their living by creating spaces that they really, really love and other people love. How do we find that intersection? So if you’d be willing to come back, I would love to have that discussion with you. Okay, guys, I’m gonna put all of Hillary’s links and where to find her. Guys, go follow her on Instagram. She, just looking at her board, you’re…

Hilary Prall (24:25.259)

Absolutely.

Kathi (24:40.741)

You’re gonna be inspired, you’re gonna be encouraged, and you’re gonna know she’s one of us, so it’s okay. That she is not judging you for not having all of it together because we’re all works in progress. You guys have been listening to Clutter -Free Academy, I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter -free life you’ve always wanted to.

#647 The Shame-Free Path to Conquering Clutter

647 – The Shame-Free Path to Conquering ClutterHey friends! Have you ever felt so ashamed of your home that you would rather hide than invite anyone over? In this powerful episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep into the emotional...

#646 Why Your House Won’t Stay Clean: Breaking Free from the Clutter Cycle

646 – Why Your House Won't Stay Clean: Breaking Free from the Clutter CycleHey there, friend! You know that feeling when you've spent an entire weekend decluttering, only to find your house looking exactly the same three weeks later? You are definitely not alone! In...

#645 Reclaiming Your Space: Your First Steps to a Clutter-Free Life

645 – Reclaiming Your Space: Your First Steps to a Clutter-Free LifeHey there, friends! Have you ever struggled with an overwhelming burden of household clutter? There is hope! In this episode of the Clutter Free Academy podcast, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive...

www.facebook.com/donnajonesspeak

#627 Creating a Win-Win Approach to Decluttering Conflicts in Your Home

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 23, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

627 Creating a Win-Win Approach to Decluttering Conflicts in Your Home

Are you tired of the constant battles over stuff in your home?

Well, buckle up, because in this episode, we’re diving deep into the world of decluttering conflicts. In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, host Kathi Lipp welcomes guest Donna Jones, author of “Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life” and podcast host of “That’s Just What I Needed.” The discussion centers around the intersection of decluttering and conflict resolution within relationships. You’ll be encouraged to approach decluttering conflicts with empathy, clear communication, and a focus on mutual solutions.

Listeners will discover:

How possessions often become a source of conflict, especially between generations
How to start difficult conversations about possessions and space in a healthy way
The importance of finding win-win solutions in conflicts over clutter

Throughout the episode, Kathi and Donna emphasize that while conflict can’t be avoided, it can be handled in healthy ways that lead to more peaceful lives and homes.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.donnajones.org

Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life by Donna Jones

www.instagram.com/donnaajones

Find Donna Jones’s “That’s Just What I Needed Podcast” on Apple, Spotify, or here.

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

How does emotional attachment to possessions contribute to conflicts in your relationships?

Share in the comments!

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Meet Our Guest

Donna Jones

Donna is a national speaker, author, host of the “That’s Just What I Needed” podcast and self-described Bible explainer who loves her God, her family, a strong cup of coffee and really cute shoes. Her latest book is Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life. Visit her at www.donnajones.org.

Transcript

Well, hey, friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life.

And guys, I’ve got a new friend to introduce us to. I was just on her podcast. We had a blast and I knew when I heard the title of her new book, she needed to come be with our clutter free people. This is Donna Jones. She is a national speaker. She’s the podcast host of That’s Just What I Needed. And she is the author of Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life. Donna, welcome to the podcast.

Donna Jones (00:52.494)

thank you so much for having me, Kathi. This is fun.

Kathi (00:56.839)

Well, you know, it’s so interesting because I was just talking with my pastor the other day and we were talking about different stages in life and what I was telling him was for my listeners over 50, probably one of the most frequent questions I have is how do I pass this stuff on down to my kids?

And probably the most frequent question I get from people under the age of 40 is, how do I tell my parents I don’t want their stuff? And…

Donna Jones (01:30.318)

areas.

Kathi (01:31.335)

That is a situation that is ripe for conflict It’s so funny because I just had this conversation with my mom the other day We are going there and we’re sifting through some of her stuff and she said do you want to contact Kimberly? Who’s my daughter or do you want me to to ask her if she wants your wedding album and Let’s just be clear. This is the wedding album from me and her father not my current husband

because I am remarried. I’m like, mom, she doesn’t want it. And she goes, well, how do you know? And I said, because she doesn’t want anything. And she really doesn’t want the album. And by the way, I’ve asked her if she wanted any of the pictures. She’s like, no, I’m good. I would rather remember you guys separately than together. I’m like, fair enough. I agree with that. But there is so much drama over stuff. And.

Donna Jones (02:01.038)

No.

Donna Jones (02:27.502)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Kathi (02:30.343)

There are just, there’s so many scenarios where I believe you should want this stuff. And if you don’t want this stuff, what does that say about our relationship? Or you’re giving away the item that I gave you and what does that say about you and me? Or my kids thinking I should be able to hang on to their stuff for eternity. And there’s so much conflict.

over this stuff that is in our lives? And why do you think that possessions are such a hot topic? Or do you? Maybe you don’t agree with that.

Donna Jones (03:07.406)

no one. Yeah, no, no, no, I actually do. Well, to be honest with you, Kathi, almost anything can become a fair game for conflict. And so possessions fall into that category. And you know, it’s funny knowing I was going to come on your podcast, knowing that you’re clutter fleet, clutter free community here. I thought when we are embroiled in conflict, it clutters our mind.

Kathi (03:16.847)

Right.

Donna Jones (03:33.934)

It clutters our soul. I mean, the last thing we’re feeling is peaceful because we are replaying the conflict over and over and over. You know, we’re thinking about what he said, what she said, what we said, what we wish we said. You know, we’re going around, we’re talking about with our husband, with our girlfriend, with our mother. It’s just so consuming. Our brain is cluttered when we don’t know how to handle conflict well.

Kathi (03:34.311)

Yes. Yes.

Kathi (03:39.289)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (03:48.391)

Yes.

Kathi (03:55.815)

Yes.

Donna Jones (04:01.934)

So it’s just so, it’s so important.

Kathi (04:02.215)

100 % yes. I think of clutter as encumberment and conflict can often feel like encumberment but the commonality between stuff and conflict is both are necessary to a certain extent, aren’t they?

Donna Jones (04:08.192)

Yeah, I think perfect. Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (04:23.438)

Yes, yes. Okay, you’re exactly right because we have to have stuff, right, to live. And conflict is, if I could have written a book that was how to get rid of conflict from now into eternity, that’s time me up, right? But that’s not feasible. So thus, healthy conflict, peaceful life. We need to know how to deal with conflict in a healthy way, just like we need to know how to handle possessions.

Kathi (04:29.991)

Yes, right.

Kathi (04:37.671)

Girl, sign me up. Right.

Kathi (04:46.823)

Yes.

Donna Jones (04:52.782)

in a healthy way. And so we use our possessions, we don’t let our possessions use us. In the same way we use our conflict to work for us, we don’t let our conflict work against us, which is frankly what too many of us do. Because we just don’t know how, how do I handle this conflict? So to your point about the stuff and that people over 50,

Kathi (04:53.159)

Mmm, yes.

Kathi (05:13.959)

Yeah.

Donna Jones (05:19.342)

you know, how do I pass this down and the people under 50, how do I tell my parents I don’t want it? That goes to the way we view things. And Kathi, one of the things that I like to say that I really think is true is the way we view things determines the way we do things.

Kathi (05:28.551)

you

Kathi (05:38.823)

Okay, so unpack that for me.

Donna Jones (05:40.718)

Okay, so let me, I’m going to relate that to possessions first, then I’m going to relate that to conflict. So, because I know your audience is all about the possessions, the clutter. So the way you view a certain item, like let’s just go back to your mother and your wedding album. In her mind, she’s viewing it that way. That was a special moment. That was a milestone. So the way she viewed it is going to determine what she does with that. So how you view things determines how you do things.

Kathi (05:45.991)

Okay.

Kathi (05:51.207)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:57.671)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:02.055)

Right.

Kathi (06:09.271)

Yeah. Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (06:10.67)

right? Your daughter views that as like, that’s just a reminder of what I don’t want to remember. So then that determines what she does with it, right? So if we can understand in terms of conflict, that one of the reasons we have conflict is because we’re viewing things a little bit differently. And we tend to assume that people just view things the way we view things.

Kathi (06:16.711)

Right.

Yes. Mmm, yes.

Kathi (06:33.927)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (06:39.982)

that this particular possession is as important to me as it is to you. And that’s not always the case. Or the fact that the house is neat is as important to me as is important to you. Or the fact that there’s a lot of clutter that’s no big deal, it goes on and on and on and on and on, right? So, which is why we have conflict with our kids over a messy room. What we define as we view it is, we tell our teenager, clean up your room.

Kathi (06:40.071)

Right.

Kathi (06:46.279)

Yes.

Kathi (06:53.223)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:57.447)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (07:03.912)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (07:10.382)

And we walk in and we’re like, are you kidding me? Like, okay, yeah, they pulled up their duvet and it’s not on the floor anymore, but the trash is still overflowing in there. There’s water bottles sitting around on the counter or whatever. And we’re like, this is not clean to me. So because the way we view things is you determining the way we do things and they’re viewing it differently. So.

Kathi (07:14.247)

Right.

Kathi (07:20.359)

Mm -hmm Right

Kathi (07:34.567)

Right.

Donna Jones (07:39.982)

You gotta talk about the way you view things.

Kathi (07:42.535)

Yeah, so let’s talk about this in the area of people you actually live with. So for me, that’s my husband. And now part -time, we live with my mom because we’re helping her deal with some stuff. And so how do you deal with the fact that there’s an emotional attachment? Or in Clutterfree, we talk about fear, guilt, and shame. Fear.

but what if I need that item someday? Guilt, so -and -so gave it to me, so I need to keep it for the rest of my life, and shame, I spent so much money on it, and if I give it away or throw it away, it just means I’m a wasteful person. And so we have these hangups, but our roommate, whomever that is, a spouse, a child, a parent, an actual roommate that you’re,

Living in the same space with doesn’t have that same emotional attachment to it How do you come to a place where you can discuss that? Maybe there’s some conflict or you know, is there a way to avoid the conflict when you’re discussing it or how do you get to the other side?

Donna Jones (08:45.582)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (09:00.238)

Yeah, that’s such a good question. And first of all, your listeners are ahead of the game because they know the three root causes. So they can assess themselves, okay, why is this important to me? But because they know the three root causes, they also have insight into what’s going on in the brain of the other person. So they can go, you know, and you don’t even have to say this to the other person. I wonder if that’s fear. I wonder if that’s shame. I wonder, you know, you can kind of, which is helps you.

Kathi (09:05.927)

Mmm.

Yes.

Kathi (09:13.191)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (09:19.559)

Yes.

Kathi (09:25.607)

Mm, right.

Donna Jones (09:29.966)

understand and understanding is one of the biggest keys to being able to resolve conflict when you understand another person’s perspective. So your listeners are already, you know, three steps ahead of most people. You do, you do. So I would say as you know, as you are, let’s say, trying to declutter some things, really talk about it.

Kathi (09:33.959)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (09:41.191)

We’ve got some smarties. We really do. Yes.

Donna Jones (09:57.326)

and just talk about, hey, what do you think about this? One of the things that, it’s even on my website, actually, Kathi, because I get this question so often, how do you start a hard conversation in a healthy way? And so sometimes when you’re working through clutter, you’re working through stuff, you’re working through, you almost wanna avoid it because you think, I don’t want this to be a big blow up, right?

Kathi (10:10.695)

Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (10:26.215)

Right.

Donna Jones (10:27.118)

So you need to know, okay, how do I even start this so that this conversation goes well, so the other person doesn’t get defensive, I still feel heard, and it doesn’t become a big conflict. So one of the things that I like to say is so helpful is that you start with a question. So most of us tend to start with our perspective, right?

Kathi (10:37.959)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Kathi (10:56.199)

Right, okay?

Donna Jones (10:56.878)

However, if you start with a question and you let the other person go first, then you find information about the way the person is thinking, feeling, you know, processing that you wouldn’t know otherwise. And it helps you know what to say next. Because now you’ve got this piece of information about this person and their perspective that you didn’t have before. And then number two, when they go first,

Kathi (11:03.783)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:24.487)

Right.

Donna Jones (11:26.99)

they feel like you’re automatically on their side and the defenses go down. So it’s a win -win. So you might say some, you know, let’s just say you’re cleaning out the garage with your spouse and you hold up some item that you think, I cannot believe that my husband still has this ridiculous hobby thing that he hasn’t done in 15 years, right? And…

Kathi (11:30.439)

Hmm, okay.

Kathi (11:37.255)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (11:46.959)

Right.

Kathi (11:53.031)

Right. Hey, let’s just use, for example, a guitar, which is just coming off the top of my head that I’ve seen, not that I have any, yes, but if you were going to give somebody a script, what would that script be? Would you ask questions about like, why is this important to you? What are your future plans? Yeah.

Donna Jones (12:02.19)

you have any?

In association with them. What would that script look like?

Donna Jones (12:19.118)

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I would say, okay, here’s what you don’t do. And then here’s what you do do. So you don’t go, you don’t hold it up and go, are you kidding me? We still have this. I thought we got, you know, gave this away five years ago. You never use this. This is definitely going to goodwill, right? So you don’t say stuff like that. Because of course the other person is going to get defensive and honestly, Kathi, even if they didn’t really want it, just by the fact that we said it that way, now they’re going to want it.

Kathi (12:24.167)

Okay.

Kathi (12:28.295)

Right. Yeah.

Yes.

Kathi (12:44.455)

Yeah.

Kathi (12:48.743)

Right, dig their heels in. Yes.

Donna Jones (12:48.878)

So we shot ourselves in the foot, right? So instead you hold up the guitar and you go, I forgot we had this. What do you think about this item? Should we give this away? What do you think about this? And we let the other person say, and let’s just say they say, no, I want to keep that. Then the next question would be, okay, well, tell me why you want to keep that.

Well, you know, the sentimental value, you know, whatever. Okay. Well, where would, where do you think it would, we should keep that so that it doesn’t clutter up our garage. So we keep, you know, asking these questions and the other, you’ll either find a solution about where it goes or the other person may even come to the conclusion like, you know what? I don’t really need that after all. But it’s kind of.

Kathi (13:27.783)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (13:36.135)

Right.

Kathi (13:42.215)

Yeah.

Donna Jones (13:44.046)

become a win -win and you haven’t gotten to fight over your stuff.

Kathi (13:47.079)

Yeah, I also am a big believer in whatever space I’ve allotted to myself that I don’t have to explain this to you. I allot to my partner. And so, you know, whether it’s a gorilla rack or a shelf on a gorilla rack, there are just some things that are hard to get rid of. Like I have a dress in there that I’ve literally never worn and.

Donna Jones (14:00.878)

Okay, yeah.

Donna Jones (14:08.558)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:15.495)

Roger does not care about it by the way, but I feel stupid that I’m keeping it, because I keep on thinking there’s got to be a way, I love this dress, I love it, but it just is a funky dress, and I tried it on, and I tried it on, and I’m like, hey, that looks cute, and then I got home, and I’m like, what was I thinking? And I bought it out of state, and so if Roger’s not gonna give me,

You know push back on this ridiculous dress that I bought maybe I need to leave the guitar alone But I do think that we have to figure out. I like your your thought Where should we keep this so it does so we’re not tripping over it every time we’re going through the garage like there are other ways to Have a win -win without somebody getting rid of it. I want to talk further about this We do need to go take take a commercial break and when we come back

I want to go over those questions one more time to give us a little script. Like to say, if we’re looking at this guitar case and we’re like, are you kidding me? This is still here. Why does this thing haunt me in my dreams? And we want to have, the goal isn’t necessarily to get rid of it. The goal is to live with the mutual decision it sounds like. And.

Donna Jones (15:37.678)

Yeah. Well, if you’re living with someone, yeah, exactly. Because that’s part of it.

Kathi (15:41.447)

Yeah, okay. I wanna come back and come up with those questions so that we can have that script that we can enter and do. So we’re gonna take a quick break, get this podcast paid for, and we’ll be right back.

Okay, Donna, here’s my question. I would love to give our listeners a little script. So, you know, let’s go back to the guitar, because that’s not a big deal. It’s just something that, well, let’s just be clear, I’ve lived with for 18 years, but it’s okay. Yeah, do I sound okay? Maybe not. So the first…

I’m not gonna say, are you kidding? We still have this guitar. This guitar haunts my dreams. We’re not gonna say that. We’re gonna say something more along the lines of, tell me about why this guitar is important to you or has been. Is that something like that?

Donna Jones (20:20.206)

Yeah, well, actually, we’re going to start with, yeah, we’re going to start with, what do you think we should do with this? Okay. That and, and.

Kathi (20:27.079)

Okay, and I’m gonna say, go ahead, tell me more.

Donna Jones (20:31.566)

No, well, I think the person goes, give it away. You’re done. I mean, you’re golden, right? You’re golden. Yeah.

Kathi (20:35.143)

You’re done. And you’re like, this is amazing. But I’m going to come back and say, but I played this in youth group, and that was kind of an important part of my life. And who knows, maybe someday I’ll pick it up again. Like these are not things Roger has necessarily said, but things that I imagine he might say. And I’m like, OK, but we don’t have a lot of room in our house. So like, what’s my next question for him?

Donna Jones (20:54.67)

Okay.

Donna Jones (21:01.166)

Yeah, so start with like, what do you think we should do with this? Then if they want to keep it, okay, tell me why that this is important. You feel like this is important to you. And then if they give you a reason, then say, okay, well, where do you think we should keep it so that it’s not in our way? And then you put it on them and then you need one. Yeah, find that place.

Kathi (21:08.519)

Yeah.

Kathi (21:20.615)

Okay, okay, to find that place. Okay, great. Now, I’m gonna challenge you with something bigger, Donna. We have people in our group, especially our paid group, Clutter -Free for Life, that their husbands have had things like farm equipment that they haven’t used in a decade, or cars, or…

I don’t know, you know, whole rooms dedicated to a hobby. So big stuff. How do you go to the next place in the conversation in big stuff?

Donna Jones (21:51.342)

So big stuff, big stuff. Yeah.

Donna Jones (21:59.566)

Yeah, yes, such a great question. Well, there is a chapter in the book called big things, little things, and everything in between. So part of handling conflict well is discerning. And when I say big things, little things, we’re talking about physical big things or physical little things, right? But there are emotional big things and emotional little things. So, you know, this is broader than just possessions.

So we got to discern, is this a big deal or a big thing or is this just a little thing like the dress in your closet? That’s just a small thing. It’s not a big deal. It doesn’t really take up much space and Rogers not, it’s not causing angst in your marriage, right? Small thing, let it go. But there are big things, emotionally big things or things like cars on the driveway or cars on the front lawn.

Kathi (22:29.543)

Right.

Kathi (22:46.503)

Right. Right.

Kathi (22:55.655)

Mm -hmm. Yeah. It’s a big deal.

Donna Jones (22:56.846)

that that’s a big deal, right? So that’s got to be addressed. That’s got to be addressed. In the book, I actually talk very specifically about a couple who were vastly different in the way they viewed a big thing. And their big thing was finances. He was a spender, she was a saver. And they just, every single time they talked about finances, it was World War Three.

Kathi (23:14.535)

Mm -hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (23:26.503)

Donna Jones (23:26.798)

So it could be, you know, there’s somebody in your listening audience where their husband is kind of a hoarder, they’re trying to get it together and get clutter free, and it is just a constant conflict, right? So here’s what happens oftentimes is when we battle the same things over and over and over again, we tend to make the person the problem. Like if you weren’t such a hoarder, if you weren’t so invested in that darn car, you know, you see what I’m saying? So we make the person the…

Kathi (23:36.423)

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:49.031)

Mmm. Yeah.

Yeah, yes.

Donna Jones (23:56.397)

problem. But here’s why that doesn’t work. We can never solve a person. We can only solve a problem. So instead of making a person the problem, keep the problem the problem. So let’s just say you have, you know, you have a whole room that you can’t use because your husband’s taking it up.

Kathi (24:03.527)

Oof. Yes.

Kathi (24:12.967)

Okay.

Donna Jones (24:23.182)

And that’s, you need that room or you want that room or that bothers you for whatever reason. So what you’re gonna do is you’re gonna sit down and you’re gonna come up with, you’re gonna talk about something that could be like a win -win solution. So, and you’re gonna think about the other person’s interests, right? So this is called like,

Kathi (24:26.887)

Right.

Kathi (24:41.127)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (24:46.631)

Okay.

Donna Jones (24:50.318)

Well, I can’t even remember what it’s called. What else is going on? It’s going out of my brain. My brain is cluttered right now. Yeah, a little side note, Kathi. Yeah, you’re trying to get to a win -win. So you sit down and you write where you’re going with this. So let’s just say it’s both of us feel good about that extra room, right? That both of us feel good about that. The way that extra room is,

Kathi (24:53.095)

That’s okay.

But you’re trying to get to a win -win, is what you’re saying. Yeah.

Kathi (25:10.439)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (25:15.911)

Mm -hmm. Yes. Yes.

Donna Jones (25:20.27)

being used. Then that’s where you’re going. So you’re both going in the same direction on this problem. Then you start brainstorming and you make a commitment, we’re just going to brainstorm this as a brain dump. So no, this is not the point where you go, that’s not going to work. No, you just like throw it out. But if there’s something that it’s like, that’s just, that’s not going to work for either of us. You can dump that one.

Kathi (25:21.607)

Yes.

Kathi (25:28.775)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (25:33.543)

you

Right.

Kathi (25:48.103)

Yeah.

Donna Jones (25:48.11)

And then you just start kind of, you know, you start kind of winnowing them down, but you’re always keeping in mind, okay, what’s the end goal? So this works for you, this works for me. And, you know, you kind of work toward that. Now that might take several conversations.

Kathi (26:08.647)

Right, I think the problem we often have is we want to get to the solution in 15 minutes when the problem has taken a decade. And that’s painful. So, you know, if there is a, you know, when you’re brainstorming saying, you know, I’d really love for our kids to be able to stay in that room when they come to visit. And I know your hobby is really important to you.

Donna Jones (26:13.678)

Listen. Listen.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Kathi (26:36.519)

Could we divide the space? Could we think through, could we use, you know, you used to collect coins and stamps and now you’re just collecting stamps. Could we do something with the coin? Like, I love the idea of brainstorming together to a solution where a common win is. And that common win is we both love our kids and we’d love for them to be able to stay here. Or, yeah.

Donna Jones (26:52.846)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (26:57.038)

Yes.

Donna Jones (27:02.286)

Okay, you just, that I just want to point out what you said, that was really key. We both love our kids. So you’ve just now put yourself on the same side. You have the same interest. So at some point in all of this, you’re gonna have a common interest in some area. It might just be your kids or you might,

Kathi (27:08.199)

Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (27:15.079)

Mmm, yeah.

Kathi (27:23.047)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (27:28.295)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (27:31.158)

If you always are thinking about just your interests, I want that room back because I want to use it as a guest bedroom. That’s never going to convince someone because you’re only looking at what’s important to you. You have to remember how you view things determines how you do things. So you have to always be thinking, what’s a win for you? What would be helpful for you? So when you do that, it’s easier to resolve your conflict.

Kathi (27:38.151)

Right, right.

Yeah.

Kathi (27:52.551)

Yeah.

Kathi (27:59.143)

Let me ask you this question because we have some people in some of our groups who are in really hard circumstances. And I’m thinking of one friend in particular who, you know, we talk about.

Donna Jones (28:08.846)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (28:16.167)

in our group saying, it’s really important to me that when we have people over, I’m not embarrassed by the house. That, you know, the house doesn’t have to be perfect, but I want people to feel comfortable coming into my house. And this friend said, but what if my family doesn’t care if I’m comfortable or not? And in my estimation, that’s not a clutter problem.

Donna Jones (28:25.006)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (28:44.647)

That’s a relationship issue. What would you say to somebody who says, my family doesn’t care that I feel blank, blank, blank.

Donna Jones (28:44.846)

Yeah, that’s exactly right.

Donna Jones (28:56.782)

Yes. my goodness. It’s really interesting, Kathi, because in doing the interviews for the book and talking to people about the book, because the book is really a relational book, right? Because conflict is relational always. One of the biggest questions I get, it’s twofold really. One is what are the biggest mistakes that you can make in conflict? And

Kathi (29:08.551)

Yeah, yeah. Right, absolutely.

Kathi (29:22.439)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (29:24.686)

actually the biggest, well, I don’t know if this is the biggest, but one of the top three. I actually have a chapter in the book called the top 10 mistakes that people make in terms of conflict. But the top one of the top three would be being dismissive of another person’s concern, because that communicates disrespect, right? And it’s a very short walk from disrespect to the dissolution of a relationship.

Kathi (29:33.415)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:40.647)

Mmm, yeah. Yeah.

Right?

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:52.487)

Yeah, absolutely.

Donna Jones (29:52.59)

So that’s why being dismissive is a really big deal. So that your friend is feeling dismissed. That’s a big deal. That needs to be addressed on a deeper. Yeah, it is.

Kathi (30:00.231)

Yeah, it’s a huge deal. So is that something to take to a counselor at that point? Because that doesn’t feel like anything I can address about clutter. But I do feel like that’s not OK. Roger would never tell me, I don’t care how you feel. That would never come up. So.

Donna Jones (30:12.942)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Donna Jones (30:19.598)

Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (30:27.079)

Is that the next step or are there steps in between somebody saying that and going to a counselor?

Donna Jones (30:32.207)

Yeah, I think there are steps in between because sometimes we assume that, let’s just say your friend has communicated. See, that’s the other thing. Sometimes we assume that we’re communicating what’s important to us, but we’re actually not communicating it clearly. So one of the things that my husband would like to say is expectation without communication always leads to frustration.

Kathi (30:34.535)

Okay.

Kathi (30:58.279)

that is true, yes.

Donna Jones (31:00.334)

Yeah. So we have to make sure, wait, did I communicate this in a clear way? And if I didn’t, that’s maybe why I’m frustrated because the other person’s not clear on my expectation.

Kathi (31:04.743)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Okay. I’m expecting you to mind read and suddenly you’ve lost that power. Darn it. Okay.

Donna Jones (31:14.03)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So that’s the first step. Did I communicate this? My wants, my needs, my expectations, whatever. And then if, let’s just say you did, and the other person’s like, well, I don’t care. Why is that a big deal to you? Now that’s when you need to have a deeper conversation.

about and you need to really address some of these issues, right? Now, this may not be counseling level yet. This is where you make conflict work for you rather than against you. And one of the things that I talk about in the book is a conflict continuum that on either side of an unhealthy way of dealing with conflict is

Kathi (32:00.839)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (32:07.086)

On one side is avoidance, we’re the avoiders, and on the other side are the attackers. And probably all of your listeners know where they are, either more toward avoidance or more toward attacking, and they also probably know what their family members are, right?

Kathi (32:12.775)

Mm -hmm.

You’re right.

Kathi (32:23.431)

We’re two avoiders married to each other, so you know, nothing ever gets done. Yes.

Donna Jones (32:27.502)

basically you know you know right so here’s the thing Kathi neither of those is healthy or biblical so instead of being an avoider or an attacker the sweet spot in the middle is are the addressers and these are the people who have learned to address the issues so that the conflict ends up

Kathi (32:35.175)

Right.

Donna Jones (32:54.222)

being able to be resolved or worked through or at least managed in a healthy way. Okay? So, and a lot of the book is, okay, how do you do that? Because that’s the golden ticket. That’s the golden question, right?

Kathi (32:56.967)

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Kathi (33:05.671)

Right.

Yeah, so yeah, and I will correct myself and say with Roger and myself we are addressers to each other, but we were born both avoiders. So we are growing, we are growing, we’re still avoiders with some other people because my goodness, yeah. Okay, so just a final question here. If somebody, you know, and I definitely, guys, I recommend the book and we’ll put a link in there for,

Donna Jones (33:18.126)

that’s good.

Donna Jones (33:22.702)

Hahaha!

Kathi (33:38.119)

for all of you to check that out. If somebody is saying, you know what, this has been something, I’m tired of avoiding the conversation, or I’m tired of the fight level in my household, because I know that this is a short trigger for me.

I get very angry when I talk about that. What is one major step we can do to address the conflict in a healthy way that we haven’t talked about yet in the podcast? You say, my end goal is for both myself and this person I live with to have a good outcome. I want to address this in a healthy way and I don’t want to go back to my old patterns of attack or avoidance. What’s one thing I can do?

Donna Jones (34:36.014)

Okay, when most people think of how to handle conflict, they think of what action do I need to take? But the most important component of handling conflict well is not an action. It’s an attitude. And that attitude is humility. And here’s why.

Humility allows us to both see our perspective and the other person’s perspective. And humility is not the same thing as humiliation, right? Humility simply makes us a doorway for conversation, not a doormat for exploitation. So they’re really different. So if we’re humble, then that opens the door for further conversation.

Kathi (35:28.647)

No.

Kathi (35:38.279)

Mmm, yes.

Donna Jones (35:47.118)

So we really have to go back to this is you and me, not you versus me. So let me tell you, let me just close with this story that this was such a powerful but yet simple thing that my husband taught me really just by the way he responded to me. We were having a conflict early in our marriage.

Kathi (35:56.007)

Right.

Donna Jones (36:11.694)

And I really wanted him to see my perspective and he really wanted me to see his perspective. And we were going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And you know how that goes. Nobody’s really listening to each other and you’re interrupting each other and the conflict is escalating, escalating, escalating. And then we got to the point where JP just looked at me and he goes, Donna, Donna, I’m on your team. And Cathy, that phrase, I’m on your team, literally.

de -escalated that conflict in a nanosecond. Because what that did is it reminded me that, okay, we’re not adversaries here. And let’s try to work this out. But sometimes we just have to say that out loud. We have to verbally express our humility. Hey, I’m on your team. And we can do this. That takes humility.

Kathi (36:45.127)

Yes.

Kathi (36:53.159)

Right.

Kathi (37:05.275)

Yes. When it comes to decluttering, when it comes to decluttering, I think one of the humility stances we have to take is I, even though I belong to this group, I listen to this podcast, like I’m up in the clutter all the time, I don’t necessarily have the best answer. Like,

Maybe my spouse or my roommate or my child or my parent has a better idea how to handle this thing that we perceive as clutter. Maybe they have a better idea or maybe brainstorming together. We can because I think most of us know, well, that should be thrown away or that should be donated or that should be stored in this way. And to say humility says I want to win for both of us.

So let’s brainstorm together and be on the same team. Because our common enemy is the chaos in our lives. And being on the same team says, we don’t defeat each other, we defeat the chaos. And that’s what we’re going to do here. Donna, this is such a great perspective. Friends, the book is called Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life. And isn’t that?

Donna Jones (38:11.597)

Mmm, yes.

Kathi (38:30.887)

I know we all want to avoid the conflict. We can’t avoid the conflict. So let’s deal with it in a healthy way. We’re going to have notes and links in the podcast notes so that you can go find out more about Donna, more about the book, and more about her podcast. Donna, thanks so much for being on ClutterFree Academy.

Donna Jones (38:49.902)

thank you so much, Kathi. This was just a joy.

Kathi (38:52.807)

This is so much fun to talk about from all the different perspectives for me. I just love it and friends Thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to clutter free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp now go create the clutter free life You’ve always wanted to live

#647 The Shame-Free Path to Conquering Clutter

647 – The Shame-Free Path to Conquering ClutterHey friends! Have you ever felt so ashamed of your home that you would rather hide than invite anyone over? In this powerful episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive deep into the emotional...

#646 Why Your House Won’t Stay Clean: Breaking Free from the Clutter Cycle

646 – Why Your House Won't Stay Clean: Breaking Free from the Clutter CycleHey there, friend! You know that feeling when you've spent an entire weekend decluttering, only to find your house looking exactly the same three weeks later? You are definitely not alone! In...

#645 Reclaiming Your Space: Your First Steps to a Clutter-Free Life

645 – Reclaiming Your Space: Your First Steps to a Clutter-Free LifeHey there, friends! Have you ever struggled with an overwhelming burden of household clutter? There is hope! In this episode of the Clutter Free Academy podcast, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo dive...

#626 The Hidden Trauma Behind Clutter: How to Start Healing Your Relationship with Possessions

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 16, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

626 The Hidden Trauma Behind Clutter: How to Start Healing Your Relationship with Possessions

Have you ever struggled to give things away without feeling guilty, even when the items have only a slight chance of being useful in the future?

That very question came from our Clutter Free Academy listeners. In this CFA Mail Bag episode, Kathi Lipp and co-host Tonya Kubo answer that question and more. They dive deep into the emotional aspects of decluttering, focusing on the guilt that often accompanies getting rid of items.
Kathi and Tonya explore the roots of this guilt, discussing how childhood experiences and ingrained perfectionism can contribute to cluttering behaviors in adulthood. They share personal anecdotes and practical strategies for overcoming these emotional barriers to decluttering.

Listeners will discover:

Why it’s important to question why we’re not using certain items
How being intentional about what we bring into our homes is crucial
When considering environmental impact should happen

Throughout the episode, Kathi and Tonya offer encouragement and practical advice for breaking free from the cycle of clutter and creating a more peaceful, organized living space.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.Tonyakubo.com

Information from the National Recording Preservation Board on Fibber McGee and Molly

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

Have you taken the “Low Buy July” Challenge? How is that going?

Share in the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

Leave a note in the comment section below.
Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

Transcript

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with…

the co -host with the most, it is Tonya Kubo. Although, here’s the thing. It’s so funny. Somehow, people got onto a discussion about who their favorite guests were on Clutter free Academy. It is a horse race between Tonya Kubo and Roger Lipp. If I could pick two people for it to be a horse race in, yes.

Tonya Kubo (00:40.974)

Tonya Kubo (00:45.454)

It is.

Kathi (00:55.489)

If I had to, we could do this entire podcast with just the two of you and be just fine. Because I feel like you bring the heart of a cluttery person who has done some healing to this. And Roger brings the, I live with a cluttery person. And, but I, I, I learned an interesting fact about our friend Roger Lipp. So we were, I learned we were driving away from my mom’s house and

Tonya Kubo (00:59.854)

Hahaha

Tonya Kubo (01:18.926)

What did you learn?

Kathi (01:25.281)

know, when we leave town, it’s kind of hilarious, Tonya, because we’ve got our Yeti cooler and we’ve got a pretty small car. We’ve got, we just bring the Jeep usually back and forth. So we had the Yeti cooler, we had our Sam’s order, we had, you know, I bring food back and forth from my mom’s. And then we had some dog food, like all this stuff. And my mom said, it looks like Fibber McGee is pulling out.

Tonya Kubo (01:28.398)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (01:44.142)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (01:54.625)

which I guess was a radio show in the 1940s. Right. Yeah, a little cultural context from 80 years ago. And so Roger says, I’ve been called that all my life. And I’m like, wait, what?

Tonya Kubo (01:57.966)

I’ve heard the name but I had no idea what it meant. So thank you for explaining for me. I appreciate this. Thanks.

Tonya Kubo (02:13.774)

Okay, now we need to know why.

Kathi (02:16.289)

Okay, so, you know, Roger’s mom got remarried in like the the 70s. And his new father, which is kind of funny. His name was Dr. Dobson. Now, not the Dr. Dobson. Yeah, yes, exactly. But this was Dr. Dobson who was a pastor. And he’s very interesting. He actually shook the hand of Einstein because they were both at college at the same time. Right? Right? So interesting.

Tonya Kubo (02:28.526)

Okay, not the Dr. Dobson.

Kathi (02:46.177)

But I know. Roger didn’t know that. I asked him. I asked him because I knew that they were at, I think it was Princeton at the same time. I had done a little research. Yeah, anywho. Yeah. And let’s just say Roger’s stepdad, much older than Roger’s stepmom. Little bit of a scandal, but you know, kind of anyway. That’s what keeps things interesting. Anyway, so Dr. Dean was his name.

Tonya Kubo (02:46.414)

Why isn’t Roger pulling that out at pub trivia?

Tonya Kubo (02:58.67)

Huh, okay.

Kathi (03:15.425)

Never raised his kids. They were always raised in like a missionary school things like that so Roger was the first kid he had ever really lived with and He thought Roger was this wild child and I’m like, my goodness. Tell me all the good stories He goes, yeah, he’d be up really late at night and I’m like tell me tell me more cuz I have no scandal on Roger He goes yeah working on that photography equipment. I’m like

Tonya Kubo (03:21.518)

Mmm.

Tonya Kubo (03:44.238)

he was in the dark room late at night alone with negatives.

Kathi (03:44.865)

Okay. Develop developing things for the yearbook and the newspaper. Yeah. So anywho, all this to say, Fibber McGee, so apparently Roger has been called cluttery his whole life. I have seen no evidence of this really in his life, but I just I, I, it felt good.

to know, you know, maybe we have a common core. This is way off topic. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (04:18.958)

off topic because today is my favorite episode. Okay, I do. I was like…

Kathi (04:24.641)

You love these episodes. I love them too, but you get a little bit of sick joy, I would just say.

Tonya Kubo (04:30.862)

Well, here’s what I love. So we’re doing a mailbag episode, which, and the mailbag episodes are my favorite. And the reason they are my favorite is twofold. Number one, I love, love, love, love, love that we can take the real life current experiences of our Clear Free Academy members and bring them onto the show to help other people who aren’t on Facebook.

Kathi (04:35.201)

Yep.

Kathi (04:54.945)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (04:58.766)

didn’t know we have a Facebook group or any of that. Like I love that. I also love the message that we send to our Clutterfree Academy members who ask these questions that they’re really not alone. Because if they were the only person on the planet who had this problem, who had this question, we would not be devoting an entire episode to it.

Kathi (05:12.289)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:20.161)

Right. And I love what you’re saying there, to feel less alone. Because we all sit in our houses, we only get invited over to perfect houses. And so we assume that we’re the only one without a perfect house. And just by our Facebook group statistics alone, which is over 15 ,000 people, I would challenge you to sit, I would challenge your thinking on that, that you’re the only one, because you’re not.

Tonya Kubo (05:31.214)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (05:41.262)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (05:47.726)

Yeah, exactly. So today’s question, I feel like speaks to the heart of where many people are when they join Clutterfree Academy. So I find that we have a few composite new members. There is the person who is like me, feeling suffocated by their stuff to the point that actually being unhoused sounds liberating.

Kathi (06:02.465)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:15.502)

Like the idea of having nothing but a backpack sounds like the ultimate liberation, which, go ahead.

Kathi (06:22.977)

My mom, Tonya, has a button that says potential bag lady. Like, yeah, she just, I think especially having two teenagers, she was like, just go and, you know, and by the way, we’re not making fun of unhoused people at all, friends, please, please, please. But I think everybody’s had, I think that’s why we like hotels so much.

Tonya Kubo (06:29.71)

Yeah!

Tonya Kubo (06:37.262)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:44.27)

No.

Tonya Kubo (06:49.966)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:51.201)

I think that’s why we like the thought of doing an RV or something like that. I think a lot of Cloré people have those same ideals.

Tonya Kubo (06:54.798)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:58.574)

Right. And so to the point, right, because what I’m really getting at is so overwhelmed that you just want to escape. We have that person and they want to escape their living circumstances. And then we have the person who comes who actually has a moral struggle. Like they’re not sure. They know that other people have a problem with the condition of their house or other people have a problem with their cluttery ways, but they’re not actually sure that other people are right. Because

Kathi (07:05.921)

bright.

Yes.

Kathi (07:27.713)

What do you mean by that?

Tonya Kubo (07:28.745)

Because in their heart of hearts, they think they’re doing good in the world by keeping hold of things. And so that’s where this question comes from. Because I know, like the outsiders who are not cluttery assume that, you know, our group is full of people who just can’t keep house, which you know how I feel about that. And that’s an episode for another day. But this is the person who says, okay, I hear what you’re saying that

Kathi (07:34.913)

Mmm, yes.

Yes.

Kathi (07:48.481)

Yeah, right.

Tonya Kubo (07:57.006)

I, you know, that it makes sense and it’s a good idea to have a house that’s tidy, that’s peace -filled, that my family enjoys. And yet, I genuinely cannot give anything away if it has even a modicum, even like a little itty bitty hair’s breadth chance of being useful at some point in time to someone, even if that someone’s not me.

What do I do when I can’t give anything away without feeling guilty? That’s the question. And it’s a doozy, right, Kathi? Because there is the decluttering aspect. There is the internal emotional aspect of the guilt. And I would even argue the shame of releasing stuff.

Kathi (08:25.985)

Right.

Kathi (08:35.329)

Hmm.

Tonya Kubo (08:48.686)

And we’ve worked a lot of times with members who the shame and the guilt comes from they spent money on that thing, right? That they’re not using. But this is different. This is I can see that somewhere, somehow somebody might need an extra cord from a slow cooker and therefore I cannot get rid of the cord. So that’s the question that I’m bringing to you, OYZ1. Hit me with your knowledge now.

Kathi (08:56.577)

Right.

Kathi (09:08.481)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Well, this is going to be a mutual knowledge thing. Okay. So can I tell you, I’m just gonna throw up confessions here. Okay. So, okay, I am a kid from the 80s, right? You know, Brat Pack, all that kind of stuff, like hardcore 80s. Yes, I know. I love them. And

Tonya Kubo (09:21.326)

Yeah

Tonya Kubo (09:30.734)

Sure, I’m all up for confessions.

Kathi (09:44.929)

But I grew up in a very black and white time. Like, excuse me. Like, if you were really hungry, you would eat those green peppers.

Tonya Kubo (09:54.094)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (10:05.397)

I was like, and we all could finish your sentence for you. If you were really hungry, you would eat what I put in front of you.

Kathi (10:08.481)

Yes. Right, right. And, you know, if you if you, you know, you shouldn’t have to buy clothes, because you should be happy with what you have. It very black and white thinking. And, you know, to be grateful for everything you have, which I agree with, Tonya, I don’t actually know a lot of people. I feel like

that express their gratitude for what they have more than I do. And I’m not saying that I don’t think I’m a big bragger on here, but I just know like my intense gratitude for what I have. And that can also be a trap. Like,

Tonya Kubo (10:42.734)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (10:52.718)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (10:58.318)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:01.249)

If you know, here’s a shirt and it has a bunch of stains on it. Okay, so I’m going to work really hard to get those stains out and I got those stains out, but now it’s a little frayed. But you know what? I’m going to, I’m going to, I’m going to do this, this, this, this. And then finally it gets to the place where that shirt can’t be used anymore. Well, I should be able to use that as a rag, even though it’s an ineffective way of cleaning my house. And I hate cleaning my house.

Tonya Kubo (11:08.494)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:23.662)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:30.657)

But I should, I should, I should. The person who is struggling to give things away without guilt, who I contend towards that, is we have got a brain full of shoulds. And maybe we grew up in a house where we were being corrected a lot. Like, okay, can I give a silly example without throwing my mom under the bus?

Tonya Kubo (11:32.942)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:38.03)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:45.902)

Mmm.

Kathi (12:00.769)

So yesterday, I was helping her clean her living room and there was just a plastic water bottle there. And I said, are you using this to water plants? And she goes, no, I think, you know, it just got left there by somebody. And I said, okay. So I go to the sink to dump it out. She goes, but water a plant with it, Kathi. And like, there’s…

Tonya Kubo (12:00.814)

Sure.

Tonya Kubo (12:18.862)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:31.809)

So it’s just funny, it’s a funny example, right? But you may have grown up in a house that was like that about everything. Like, okay, when that shirt’s no longer good, then we’re gonna give it to goodwill, even if it has stains on it, because somebody should be grateful for it, and somebody should wear it. And…

Tonya Kubo (12:34.606)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (12:41.806)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:57.185)

I have always been under the impression, or not always, but definitely in the last 20 years, if I wouldn’t want to wear it, why should I expect somebody else to want to wear it? If I wouldn’t eat it, why should I expect somebody else to want to eat it? I’ve had to change my thinking on that and say, it’s not a bet. We can be in such a poverty mindset that it’s impossible for us to give things away or to

Tonya Kubo (13:21.23)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (13:26.177)

throw things away. And, you know, like, okay, maybe that, you know, it’s that toaster oven, that if somebody spent $30 repairing it, that it could be useful. But most people don’t know how to repair a toaster oven, don’t know where to start with that. And yes, there are things you could do. And if you’re one of those naturally handy people, yay, but most of us aren’t.

Tonya Kubo (13:28.846)

Yeah…

Tonya Kubo (13:35.79)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (13:56.321)

And we have to figure out where we’re going to put our time, effort, and energy. And all of this is trade -offs. There is no… So many of us, I struggle with this mightily, are closet perfectionists. We don’t look like we’re perfectionists because if you came into our house, you know I’m not a perfectionist, but I am. I’m trapped in the way I should be doing things and I’m not doing things.

Tonya Kubo (13:57.038)

right?

Tonya Kubo (14:01.55)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:23.777)

and I live with that guilt all the time. And Tony, I want to hear your response to this. We’re going to take a quick break. We’re going to go get some bills paid. We’re going to come right back. And I want to hear your response to that perfectionistic mindset and maybe the people we grew up with contributing to that.

Tonya Kubo (14:34.062)

Yeah

Tonya Kubo (14:38.638)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (14:44.046)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:46.561)

Okay friends, we are back. Tonya is going to give us all her wisdom about how perfectionism really can be one of the main reasons why it’s hard to give away clutter, items, et cetera, without guilt. Go Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (15:04.59)

Alrighty. So it’s interesting this perfectionist idea, because I definitely agree with it. And I, there’s so much wrapped up in there. And I think your point is, you know, so much of our adult cluttery ways are steeped in some form of childhood trauma. And I’m not saying like capital T front page headline trauma.

Kathi (15:30.625)

Goodbye.

No.

Tonya Kubo (15:33.998)

I am saying I’m really talking about the trauma that just builds up. It’s like the thing that hurts your feelings but maybe didn’t hurt your brother’s feelings. That sort of stuff, right? Like you just, you carried it differently.

Kathi (15:45.185)

It’s, you can be, yeah, you can be traumatized just by imperfect parenting. And that, it’s something you still have to work out. It’s okay, you know, because we were all raised by imperfect parents. That’s what happened.

Tonya Kubo (15:52.558)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (16:01.71)

Exactly. So with that, I think that we also have to come to some point where we say, who do I really want to be? Right? What like what’s mine to carry? What do I want to carry? And I know for me, that cluttering journey has really been about going, huh, I don’t have to own this, right? Like this wasn’t even my junk to own in the first place.

Kathi (16:14.881)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (16:18.849)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (16:31.809)

That’s right.

Tonya Kubo (16:32.101)

And so, yes, there’s the perfectionistic part of wanting to do things right that our Clegary folks really, really struggle with. But I think the point you’re actually making is sometimes it’s not our own perfectionism, but it’s perfectionism that was projected onto us.

Kathi (16:51.041)

Mm -hmm. If you’re going to do it the right way, if you’re going to do, you know, there’s a moral attachment to being thrifty and reusing banks and a moral attachment to spending less money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And some of those are good things. You know, I believe in those things, but also they can be guilt traps.

Tonya Kubo (17:04.462)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:19.521)

They can be deep traps. And also, lots of times, Tonya, you may be done with something, but like we were talking about earlier, you still see the value in it. So you want to give it to me so that I can get the value out of it. I one time had somebody at church who said, Kathi,

Tonya Kubo (17:31.278)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (17:39.726)

Right.

Kathi (17:47.041)

I can’t use these hundred baskets anymore. And I’m not even joking, a hundred different baskets. 100 baskets. There were more than that, but it was at a minimum of a hundred. But I’ve left them here for you because I know you could do something with them. And in my brain is like, do you just want me to take them to the dump? Like, what do you want me to do? And it was, she was putting,

Tonya Kubo (17:50.734)

Mm -hmm. 100 baskets.

Tonya Kubo (18:06.414)

Like what?

Kathi (18:15.649)

a judgment on me to say, basically, if you’re a good person, you would figure out how to let these not go to waste. In my thinking, it was like, lady, you should not have collected 100 baskets. And yeah, and this was a lovely lady and she has since passed. And I think sometimes, like I’ve had some relatives where I’ve had to say, hey, I can take that from you, but you have to give me

full autonomy to deal with it in the way I want. You’re never going to ask me, where is this? Do you display it? And those relatives couldn’t do it. They needed, it’s a control issue, right? And I struggle with control issues as well. And I’ve had to learn that if I’m going to give something away, I have to be okay with whatever happens to it. And that is a hard place for people to be.

Tonya Kubo (19:10.574)

Mm -hmm. That’s true.

Kathi (19:15.649)

But also I need to make sure that I am controlling my own environment and not letting things seep in that or not refusing to give things away because of this mindset. You know, I am very quick to say, hey, I’m not using this. I’m going to give it away. I now I am. But I used

Tonya Kubo (19:32.206)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (19:42.318)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (19:45.185)

I used to have this guilt of like, I have to get the value out of it. I have to get the money out of it. Like I have to hold onto that shirt because I haven’t worn it enough. Well, why haven’t I worn it enough? Because it actually, you know, maybe it was itchy. And if it’s, so I think that’s the next step when you’re like, why am I not using this item? Is it because I’ve

Tonya Kubo (19:50.286)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (19:56.206)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (20:03.566)

Mmm.

Kathi (20:13.153)

outgrown it, either physically or emotionally or mentally, well then it’s okay to give to somebody else or if it’s not usable, it’s okay for it to go into the landfill. Every human gets a certain amount of landfill stuff and I would challenge you to look at your landfill consumption on the

acquiring end instead of the getting rid of it. That’s where you can do the most impact. So thinking about something before you purchase it, asking yourself, why am I no longer using this? You know, I had some, some pants that I was like, I’m just not wearing them. I’m just not wearing them. And so I’m like, okay, I’m going to pick them up. Why am I not wearing them? Well, when I picked them up, I realized, Tonya, what I kept doing.

Tonya Kubo (20:43.437)

Mm -hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi (21:10.209)

was I kept pulling them out of the closet, seeing they had this weird stain on them, and putting them back in the closet. This was not a good system for me, right?

Tonya Kubo (21:16.654)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (21:21.582)

Can I just tell you I have lived that exact same system, Kathi? It is okay. I feel you right now.

Kathi (21:24.161)

Right? Right? Yes! And so, but these are good fitting pants and I like how they look on me. I just don’t like a giant stain. So what am I doing? I’m dyeing those pants tomorrow.

Tonya Kubo (21:32.27)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (21:40.286)

I was just gonna ask if dying fixes that.

Kathi (21:42.849)

It does. It does. You have to go with darker color. So for me, it’s navy blue. For Tonya Kubo, it’s black. But you know, if you go that darker color.

Tonya Kubo (21:46.766)

Okay.

Tonya Kubo (21:52.238)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (22:04.641)

I’ll just be honest, sometimes we’re trying too hard to save things that don’t need to be saved. Maybe the taco casserole that I made the other day that I was trying a new recipe on and Roger said, he’s very appreciative of my cooking, but he goes, it tastes like there’s a piece of Wonder Bread in the middle of it. And he was not down with that texture. And I tried to save it a couple of times. Yeah, sometimes you just need to give up and it’s okay to give up, try to fix something. But if you can’t,

Tonya Kubo (22:08.75)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:19.214)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:24.878)

Got it.

Tonya Kubo (22:29.262)

Yeah.

Kathi (22:33.729)

fix it, don’t keep it. I want you to hear me clearly. I’m not screaming at Tonya. I’m screaming at all of my friends who are like, well, at some point there’s magically going to need to be a use for that. You know, I don’t know why I have 300 solo cups, but there’s going to be a day where somebody is going to need those 300 solo cups or, you know, maybe it’s today. Maybe your kid’s school needs them. I don’t know what the

Tonya Kubo (22:39.758)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:49.87)

and

Kathi (23:03.713)

The rules are about red solo cups like at a kids school. Is it too evocative of a college party? Okay.

Tonya Kubo (23:09.454)

No, nobody knows, they’re just disposable cups that everybody uses.

Kathi (23:12.353)

Okay, good, good, good, good. But if you cannot figure out a use for that item, if you can’t figure out somebody who would gleefully receive that item, and here’s the test, Tonya. If you put it up on a buy nothing group and you get no takers, it’s probably junk.

Tonya Kubo (23:31.118)

Yep, that makes sense.

Kathi (23:32.641)

It’s a really quick test. I want us to think about, it’s not about I’ve wasted the money. I’ve gotten my money’s worth, if I wore it one time or 100 times. And now it’s time for somebody else. Cluttery people are so generous. So it’s time for somebody else to get the use out of it. If you’ve only worn it one time,

Tonya Kubo (23:44.814)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (23:56.75)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (24:02.337)

then it probably still has a lot of life left in it and somebody else will use it. But if you’ve worn it a hundred times, it may be time for it to go into clothing recycling. It’s okay, I promise.

Tonya Kubo (24:13.102)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (24:16.782)

That makes sense. And I think, you know, part of me feels like, well, we say that all the time. And then the other part of me feels like, you know what? I know early in my journey, I couldn’t hear it enough. I needed the constant reminder that it is not my job to single -handedly save the environment by never putting another thing in a landfill. It is not my job to be the example of stewardship.

Kathi (24:29.281)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Kathi (24:40.737)

Right, right.

Tonya Kubo (24:46.83)

for the entire planet by retaining everything I ever bought or ever received. So thank you. Thank you for that because even now so many years later, it’s still a helpful reminder.

Kathi (24:53.057)

Yeah.

Kathi (25:01.281)

Well, and I really want to challenge us to think, for some reason, us Cluttery people think about the environment after the purchase. And so to think about before we purchase what, you know, you know my favorite motto from World War I, use it up, wear it out, make do, do without.

Tonya Kubo (25:14.157)

Yes.

Kathi (25:29.313)

That is so much about not bringing new things into our home. And it’s okay. We need to buy things sometimes. I bought a tank top yesterday because right now it is a 110 in Sacramento and I needed a tank top. I’m fine with that. I felt like that was a good purchase, something I’ll be able to use for years to come. But

Tonya Kubo (25:35.31)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (25:51.438)

Yeah.

Kathi (25:58.657)

I thought about it before I bought it. This has been the biggest change I really do like in my clutter free journey after seriously decluttering my house is being so intentional and thoughtful about what I bring into the house. So if you’re feeling guilty about getting rid of things, I always think about it like this. It’s kind of a reset. So if you have a bunch of clothes in your closet that you’re not using,

Tonya Kubo (26:22.222)

Mm.

Kathi (26:26.785)

but you go to your closet every day and you’re like, there should be something here, but there’s nothing I want to wear. It is time to get rid of some of those things in your closet. So you actually have an accurate picture of what you have and can say, you know what? I don’t have a cream tank top. And that would actually go with a lot of things I have. Look at that. I don’t have a pair of jeans that I feel amazing in.

Everybody needs a pair of jeans that they just feel like is a banger. And so, but you’ll never know that when you have 75 things in there that you never wear. And that’s what I want for you. So get that accurate inventory of what you actually have. This could be for food. This could be for gardening equipment. This could be for your closet. This could be for your linens. Because otherwise what we end up doing, Tonya, is we go to the store and you’re like,

Tonya Kubo (26:57.55)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (27:06.414)

so true.

Tonya Kubo (27:21.678)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (27:23.809)

Yeah, I remember that the last time I went to my closet, there was nothing to wear. So I think I just need to buy some new clothes, some new clothes, right? And then what we end up doing is buying things that we don’t need. And then we hold on to things because, well, I spent so much money on it’s this vicious cycle. And we’re going to break the cycle by being intentional about what we bring into our home.

Tonya Kubo (27:28.782)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (27:32.558)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (27:37.806)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (27:48.814)

I love that. I love that.

Kathi (27:50.209)

Yeah. Okay. Well, Tonya, I love these mailbag issues because I feel like we get to go deeper. We get to go to the heart of it. We get to go to our own histories and our own coming up and thinking about this. And guys, when we talked about that trauma, I want you to hear me that you…

Tonya Kubo (28:03.214)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (28:13.537)

I love what you said, Tonya. It’s the lowercase t. It’s the things that make us act in ways that we wouldn’t want to act and make us use decisions. And guys, here’s the thing. I know that I have done this for my kids. If my kids have kids, they’ll do it for their kids. This is part of the cycle of life. But we also know that we can break those cycles.

Tonya Kubo (28:17.486)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (28:24.814)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (28:41.966)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (28:42.497)

And when I break a cycle, even as the adult parent of adults, it does trickle down. They can see changes in our lives and I think that’s beautiful. Tonya, thank you so much for being with me today.

Tonya Kubo (28:49.102)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (28:56.462)

Thanks for having me, Kathi.

Kathi (28:58.337)

And guys, thank you for being with us. If you are struggling in this and you are not part of our Facebook group, can I really encourage you to go over there and check it out? And I’ve heard from a couple of people recently, well, I tried to join and I was not let in. Let me tell you, you probably didn’t answer some questions and that’s okay. But just know that there are questions to ask and answer, there are questions to answer. And if you’re not crazy,

Tonya Kubo (29:19.438)

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (29:24.718)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:28.129)

We will let you in or if you’re all kind of crazy, we’ll let you in. It’s all good friends. Okay Yeah, so join us over at Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy where we talk about these kind of issues all the time and we can support each other because we love to hear what your answers to these questions are as well because we get more wisdom from everybody You’ve been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now go create the Clutter Free life. You were always designed to live

#647 The Shame-Free Path to Conquering Clutter

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#625 Meal Planning Made Easy with AI: Kathi’s Insider Tips

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 9, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, DIY, Getting Started, How to, Organizing, Podcast, Recipe, Recipes, tips and ideas | 0 comments

Listen Now

625 – Meal Planning Made Easy with AI: Kathi’s Insider Tips

Have you ever struggled with this age-old question?
“What’s for dinner?”

In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi and Roger Lipp take you on a journey through the incredible world of AI-driven meal planning. Say goodbye to dinner stress and discover how ethical, efficient AI tools can change your kitchen routine for the better. Join Kathi and Roger as they share their experiences with AI, making home management simpler and more effective than ever. with tips and ideas such as:

How to use AI to generate delicious, healthy, and budget-friendly recipes.
Tips for making AI your ultimate meal-planning assistant, especially for families with dietary restrictions.
The game-changing method to create categorized shopping lists through AI

As promised, here are the Meal Planning prompts that Kathi and Roger use to direct AI to plan their meals:

“Create a 7-day meal plan for a family of four, focusing on balanced nutrition and variety.”

“Suggest five quick and healthy weeknight dinner recipes using chicken breast.”

“Plan a vegetarian meal prep for the week, including breakfast, lunch, and dinner options.”

“Generate a grocery list for a week’s worth of Mediterranean-style meals.”

“Recommend three easy breakfast ideas for someone trying to increase their protein intake.”

“Design a meal plan for someone with diabetes, emphasizing low glycemic index foods.”

“Suggest ways to incorporate more leafy greens into my daily meals.”

“Create a budget-friendly meal plan for a college student, using simple ingredients.”

“Plan a week of meals that can be prepared in 30 minutes or less that my kids would like.”

“Suggest creative ways to use leftover chicken, carrots, onions and French bread to reduce food waste in my meal planning.”

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

Claude AI

ChatGPT

Dollar Tree Dinner ideas

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

What is holding you back from trying AI in meal planning?

Share them in the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

Leave a note in the comment section below.
Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

Meet Our Guest

Roger Lipp

Roger is a productivity and quality engineer for a Fortune 50 company.

Roger helps teams reach their full productivity potential by teaching them the practical and simple steps to reach their goals. Roger and his wife, author Kathi Lipp, teach communicators how to share their message through social media and email marketing.

He and Kathi coauthored Happy Habits for Every Couple with Harvest House Publishers.

Transcript

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy, where our goal is to help you live with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my AI expert. Okay, so he would not consider himself an AI expert. He is an AI practitioner, but in this household, he is the AI expert. It’s Roger Lipp. Hey, Rog. We do a lot.

Roger (00:33.652)

Hello.

Kathi (00:37.955)

We spend a lot of time thinking about AI in this house.

Roger (00:42.004)

Yeah, I’m thinking about getting business cards made up with AI expert or AI practitioner, yes.

Kathi (00:46.787)

AI practitioner. Yes, yes. Now, I know that there are going to be some people who are listening to this who are like freaked out that we’re talking about AI. I’m just going to give a quick disclaimer. If you are living in the modern world, you are already interacting with AI probably every single day, probably in a bunch of different ways. We just, we spend a lot of time, especially on the writing side of what we do.

talking about how to ethically use AI in our business, in our creativity, but that has leaked over into our personal life. Hasn’t it, Roger? I mean, we’re using it. Yeah. So.

Roger (01:26.964)

100 % we yeah, yeah, we use it all. I I used AI the other night to identify an animal that I wasn’t able to get a picture of, but I described it to the AI and told it where I lived and it identified it. It’s probably a marmot. OK. A marmot.

Kathi (01:39.235)

Right?

Kathi (01:47.651)

a marmot, which I knew that that was an animal or a Vegemite spread in, you know, something. But yeah, it’s fascinating, right? Where, where I, as I, you know, two years ago, when something came up, I would Google and I’d be like, you know, I describing it in Google, and then you kind of have to go read the stuff and everything. And what AI is doing is kind of gathering all of that for you. And with all the conditions you’ve put into that and said, here’s what it most likely is. Did it give you any second tertiary animals? Yeah, right. Yeah. It was pretty, it was pretty convinced that.

Roger (02:26.996)

I could have asked for some backup just in case. It was pretty convinced, but I may go back and see, all right, if it’s not a marmot, what might it be? Could it be a fox? Could it be this or that? I don’t know. It was pretty big.

Kathi (02:40.995)

Yeah.

So, you know, some of the ways that we’ve used AI have been in banking, in planning our garden, in household projects, Aaron’s List. I mean, the list goes on and on. But today I want to talk about meal planning. Because I just want to say, the longer I meal plan, the more I recognize that this is probably the most complex household chore that I have. And, you know, I don’t think we give meal planning and cooking the props that it deserves. I know that almost every woman I know struggles with it and some guys, but let’s just be honest, in the Lipp household, this pretty much falls to me. But you also have to capture the mice and take them out to the… nether regions of our property. So, you know, right, right. Yeah, the two do not cross over. So I’m, I’m fine with this, you know, we kind of said when we started this whole adventure, you’re kind of responsible for the outside, I’m kind of responsible for the inside, but we cross over all the time on this. But meal planning mostly falls to me. And the more I do it, the the more I realize what a complex set of

Roger (03:41.076)

Not to be confused with meal planning.

Kathi (04:08.259)

Actions this is and so I have used AI to really help in the meal planning So I wanted to give some examples, but I also wanted you to kind of describe how people can do this for themselves Now we use Claude for our meal for everything now Yeah, well almost everything it doesn’t matter Claude Claude. Let’s talk about Claude during this podcast

And do you want to give a reason why here in the year of our Lord, you know, the middle of 2024, why we’re using Claude as our AI buddy?

Roger (04:46.004)

Yeah, it may change. It may change in six months. It may change in three weeks. I don’t know. It’s a bit of a horse race. Who’s in the front and who is providing the best service for us? We use a paid version of Claude, Claude .ai. That’s C -L -A -U -D -E .ai. You’ve probably heard of ChatGPT. That’s awesome as well. You can go to Chat .OpenAI .com, I think.

Kathi (04:50.307)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:14.019)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Roger (05:14.836)

for ChatGPT, that’s great as well. We have switched over to Claude because it has more privacy, more security features, more features that are especially important for authors in the context of keeping their work private. But it’s also very good in terms of being able to go back and forth with a conversation for a long time. Chat GPT starts losing its way after a while, but Claude can keep in the conversation and keep going. So that’s two of the reasons why I think Claude is a good choice for folks.

Kathi (05:44.195)

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi (05:50.371)

Yeah.

Kathi (05:58.915)

It has the wisdom of an 80 year old and the sharp mind of a 35 year old. And so that’s the intersection we’re trying to work within. So I wanted to describe some of the ways that I am currently using Claude for meal planning and some of my favorite features. So let me talk about this and you can help us as we go along. Go ahead, Raj. Yeah. Yeah.

Roger (06:03.796)

Ha ha ha ha!

I’m sorry.

Roger (06:22.1)

Kathi, I wonder before we get into that, we could talk a little bit about some of the early stuff that happened with AI and cooking. We watched a YouTube channel for a while where there was an AI cooking challenge and they would take recipes straight off of AI and cook with them literally, you know, following to the T. And the results were not that impressive.

Kathi (06:47.491)

It was not good.

Roger (06:52.244)

So two things in that. One, AI has come a long way since then. And the second, since then, that was what, four months ago. But AI has come a long way since then. And then the other thing is to always take what you get from AI with a little bit of a grain of, a little bit of skepticism. And.

Kathi (06:57.251)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (07:02.851)

Mm. Right? Yeah.

Kathi (07:09.443)

Right.

Kathi (07:19.203)

No, you should have said grain of salt because this is a cooking episode.

Roger (07:22.324)

Yes, grain of salt. Yes. Exactly.

Kathi (07:27.331)

Yeah, so I would say if you get a recipe and it looks crazy, maybe go back, you know, try again. But I will say, so let’s talk about one of my first uses for this. Sometimes I have a mishmash of leftovers, ingredients, things in my refrigerator. And I’m like, I am all out of creativity. My job is a creative job. And it’s like sometimes I’m just tapped out when it’s five o ‘clock and it’s time to cook something for dinner. So explain what a prompt is, Roger.

Roger (08:04.404)

Yeah, a prompt is basically how we talk to the AI. You can think of a prompt as the thing that you type in to the Google search box when you’re looking for something, right? That’s you’re prompting Google to go out and find something on the Internet for you. That’s the same kind of thing that we’re talking about with Claude, except that the prompt can be much much more detailed. You can give it all kinds of parameters. You know, when you’re searching for Google, in Google if you get too wordy with your prompt, the results actually start getting worse. You know, you have to be careful to put the right word at the front and the back, you know, it becomes a whole thing. But with Claude and the AIs, the more you give it, the better the answer is.

Kathi (08:46.627)

Mm -hmm.

Roger (09:00.884)

So you can be as detailed as you want. So you could, when I was talking about, could you help me identify this animal? I was literally typing, hey, I live at 3 ,600 feet in the Sierra mountains and I just saw an animal that’s the shape of a jumbo size squirrel, but about three feet long and maybe 18 inches high. Any idea what this could be? And you know, that.

Kathi (09:27.875)

Mm -hmm.

Roger (09:30.26)

That’s the nature of a prompt.

Kathi (09:33.571)

Yeah, okay. So guys, what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna go listen to some of our fabulous sponsors who keep this podcast free for all. And when we come back, I’m gonna share some of my favorite prompts with you for getting the results I want to help me with all the things cooking. So we’ll be right back.

Kathi (10:05.315)

Okay friends, we are back and I just wanna share some of my favorite prompts that help me get my meal planning done. So if it’s five o ‘clock and I need to get something on the table and I have not planned, which happens sometimes, you know, we had leftovers, whatever. So I can go to Claude and say, hey, I’ve got chicken, spinach and sweet potatoes and a full pantry. Like so a full pantry, you know with spices and oils and things like that. Can you suggest a healthy dinner recipe and Or I could even say can you suggest three? delicious healthy dinner recipes now, why did I add the word delicious Roger?

Roger (10:54.74)

Claude and all the AI seem to do better when you give it some adjectives. It just puts it in the right frame of mind. I don’t know that I can even describe why it works, but it does. It also works if you sometimes stroke its ego. You know, if you are an expert chef, can you help me plan a recipe because, you know, I have chicken, spinach, and sweet potatoes.

Kathi (11:18.147)

Mm -hmm.

Roger (11:24.34)

Sometimes it gets better answers.

Kathi (11:24.451)

Yeah, so yes, so you know, our first category for prompts is recipe recommendations. So I have chicken, spinach, and sweet potatoes. Can you suggest a tasty, healthy dinner recipe? It would be a great prompt. I’m looking for a delicious vegetarian appetizer to bring to a party. Any ideas? And so both of those will give you some ideas.

With the vegetarian one, I would definitely say here are some ingredients I want to use you know Cabbage or you know cheese whatever it is. So that’s one way I would love to use it number two meal planning Can you create a balanced five -day dinner menu for a family of four? My son won’t eat green peppers or mushrooms and I’m allergic to dairy. Claude can handle all of that, which is amazing. I find this to be such a great gift for somebody who has dietary restrictions. If you’re vegan, vegetarian, lactose intolerant, gluten intolerant, this would be, now,

Again, check all your ingredients to make sure that they line up with what your diet actually is. I just learned the other day that Worcestershire sauce is not vegetarian. That it has, I think it’s fish in it? Yeah, I had no idea. Yeah.

Roger (13:04.98)

Like fish, yeah, I think it has fish, yeah. Yeah, so many things have fish. Hey, have you had a chance to use this for like party planning or retreat planning for meals?

Kathi (13:18.339)

I have not done, I have done party planning. So I’ll tell you one thing that I’ve done this week. We are, Roger doesn’t even know this. Our bake sale was just canceled like two minutes ago during, well, this podcast. Yeah. Breaking news. If you were planning to come to the Omo Ranch bake sale, it’s not this weekend. Yeah. Because it’s, it’s going to be the middle of May. And of course we’re, we’re predicted with snow. So, you know, that’s just where we live.

Roger (13:32.148)

okay. Good to know.

Kathi (13:47.875)

Anyway, but it helped me plan out the entire bake sale like here are all the things you need to bring with you here Like it can help with those kind of things which I think is fascinating But also when we have retreats here, we have people who are vegetarian. We have people who can’t eat gluten so I can start What I probably would do is say, here is what we normally would eat at a retreat. Can you give me some suggestions because of these modifications to the diet? And it would be a genius for that. So.

Roger (14:28.724)

Yeah, it’s part of our intake form for a retreat. Do you have any food allergies or other food restrictions? So we can just give those to Claude to create a plan for us. Or at least to start a plan for us. Yeah, we’re not just going to blindly trust. OK, rip it off the printer and give it to somebody. Here’s our shopping list. No, we don’t do that.

Kathi (14:33.347)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi (14:39.843)

It’s amazing. Right. No, no, no, we’re gonna verify, absolutely.

No, we don’t do that. But here’s what I love about it. It gets over the blank page. Because when I sit down to meal plan, Roger, I can’t remember anything I’ve ever cooked in my entire life. I cannot remember anything that you’ve ever liked to eat. Like I feel like I’m starting, go ahead.

Roger (15:10.676)

You sometimes ask me, what’s your favorite thing that I cook? And I always stare at you with a blank stare. It’s like, huh, I like it all. I know.

Kathi (15:21.923)

Yeah.

Which sounds fake, by the way. Okay, so here’s another way that I love to meal plan. I need to plan five days worth of packable work lunches. What do you suggest? So, you know, some of my favorite things are chicken salad, or you don’t like to give it some of your favorite things, but just, and here’s the beautiful thing. If it comes up with five days and the middle day is, well, Kathi, you could have a stuffed green pepper with, now, Roger, what would be my response to eating a stuffed green pepper for lunch?

Roger (16:04.82)

no.

Kathi (16:06.083)

No. I hate green peppers. I hate them so – Yes. So what what could I then do with Claude who’s suggesting green peppers on Wednesday and Friday?

Roger (16:09.012)

You loved me.

Roger (16:20.532)

So this is the beautiful thing about these AIs is that the chat inside of these means you can go back and forth. Thank you for that menu suggestion. I don’t really like green peppers. Can you suggest some alternatives? So it doesn’t lose track of what it’s already the conversation so far, but it can kind of pick up from there and modify things. Well, you know, you can omit the green pepper. You could substitute in a zucchini or whatever is appropriate. So it really does have that chat aspect. You’re going back and forth with the AI. That wasn’t quite right, and here’s a suggestion. It’s OK to tell it that it got it wrong. It will apologize. It’ll trip over its own feet to apologize for getting it wrong for you. And we tend to end with thank you.

Kathi (16:58.979)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:14.883)

It’s amazing.

Yes, we do because we’re people pleasers and polite. Yes But you know if the robots do rise up, I want them to think of me favorably. I’m just kidding you guys. Okay Okay, let’s talk about my absolute favorite way to use AI This this is the game changer you guys. This is the this is the everything so my prompt would be

Roger (17:19.7)

Wait.

Yes.

Roger (17:28.596)

Ha ha ha!

Kathi (17:45.219)

Here are the seven recipes I’m going to cook this week. And I would put those recipes in if I’m getting them from, you know, if I’m retyping them from a book, if I’m getting them off the internet, whatever it is. Now.

Roger (18:00.468)

So you would cut and paste the whole recipe, all seven of the recipes. OK.

Kathi (18:02.627)

I would cut and paste the whole recipe, all seven of the recipes. AI, Claude, please make me a shopping list categorized by the aisles in a grocery store. And so I’ve got my dairy, I’ve got my bakery, I’ve got my canned goods, I’ve got my produce, I’ve got my meat and seafood. Guys?

Roger (18:31.156)

and it’s all laid out for you to just pick it up while you’re shopping.

Kathi (18:35.395)

Yes, so I take that shopping list and I go through my kitchen and I’m like, okay, well, I’ve already got onions. I’ve already got canned broth. I’ve already got garlic. I’ve already got frozen chicken. And so here’s what’s left to purchase. And then I just go onto my little Sam’s Club app or I go on to Target or to Rayleigh’s, which is a local grocery store. I type it all in, I place my order and I just drive there on Wednesdays and pick up all my groceries and my life is the best it’s ever been. It makes me so happy, so, so, so happy. I can’t even stand it. Yeah.

Roger (19:11.86)

Wonder.

Roger (19:19.156)

Hey, Kathi, for folks on a super tight budget, I know you’ve also played with adding prices to that. How did that work out?

Kathi (19:23.267)

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Well, it added out really, really well. So if you want to keep like, so I would say if you’re on a super tight budget, here’s what I would say is don’t plan the recipes, plan the ingredients. So what do you already have? Maybe what’s on sale at your local grocery store or? You know, what’s in season right now if you have a garden and plant. So reverse engineer it. So this would be more like the recipe recommendations that we talked at top. And I would say, hey Claude, I’m on a super tight budget. I only have $25 for groceries this week. This is what I have in my freezer, my fridge and my pantry. Please suggest the most budget friendly but delicious recipes that I can come up with. And I also believe it’s a great idea to keep track of prices. Some people are able to keep track of prices in their head. I’m just not one of those people. But I do like to say, you know, here at Sam’s, you know, I can put my Sam’s receipt into Claude and say, can you give me the prices here for everything. So it’ll say chicken breasts are this much or garlic is this much. And I can start to keep track of those in one clod conversation. And I can say, hey, chicken at Safeway is 9 .99 for this frozen pack of breasts. Is that a better price than at Sam’s? And it will tell me.

It’s just genius. I love it so much. But figure out, tell Claude what your problem is. Is it that you don’t have enough time? You don’t have enough energy? You don’t have enough money? What is the resource that’s the most struggling for you? Here’s another thing. What if you’re in a situation where you’re living in a camper right now? Claude, I need meals that…

Kathi (21:44.003)

can be prepared in the microwave. Or, you know, like tell Claude your circumstance and Claude will help you figure it out. Claude, I live in a food desert and the only store I have near me is Dollar General. Here’s, you know, and there, you could go and either Claude will know what’s typically at Dollar General or there’s an article online that says here are the foods that are typically at Dollar General. And you can figure out what it is that you could prepare. And by the way, if you, I think it’s Dollar Tree Meals. Okay, so there’s a Instagram or Dollar Tree Meals. If you’re on a super tight budget, I would go follow her. Yeah.

Roger (22:21.78)

Thanks.

Roger (22:36.34)

It’s almost like you’re playing a guy’s grocery game with Claude, right?

Kathi (22:39.651)

It’s it’s so true because on guys grocery tape game. You’ve got a limitation of money time Energy and you know what’s available or and you’ve got this specific challenge. I mean women are okay I know some guys cook but guys it’s mostly falling to us. We are playing guys grocery game every single day We’re trying to stay in budget. We’re trying to get something on the table quickly all of that Okay, other things that you can do cooking questions. This recipe calls for buttermilk, but I don’t have any. What can I use instead? How long can I safely store cooked chicken legs in the fridge? Those are great things. So cooking questions. Nutritional analysts. If you’re trying to up your fiber or trying to lower your macros or up your macros, like whatever it is, Claude can help with that and makes meal suggestions. Batch cooking and freezer meals.

What are some good recipes for making a big batch and freezing portions for later? Or how should I prep and freeze the components for this casserole recipe so I can assemble and cook it later? I love these things. I love these things. And by the way, we’re going to put all these prompts into the into the show notes so that you can just go grab them and see what we’re working with. And finally, number seven, utilizing leftovers. I have leftover grilled vegetables and quinoa.

How can I turn them into a new meal? I think that’s such a great question. What’s a creative way to use up extra roast chicken from last night’s dinner? We’re gonna be using this a lot as our zucchinis come in. Like, we’re gonna have a million, Claude’s gonna be helping us with the zucchini and tomato question all summer long, and it’s gonna be great. Roger, did I miss anything?

Roger (24:31.956)

You know, I love the idea of using this for things like food allergies and food preferences and those kinds of things. If it’s super important to you, like it’s important for your health, Claude can certainly help, but always double check the results. Don’t ever trust it blindly. Yeah, exactly.

Kathi (24:52.099)

Trust but verify. Yeah, yeah. If you’re like, Claude said I could use Worcestershire sauce and I’m a vegetarian, that’s something new I didn’t know I could use. No, if you’re surprised by an answer, and I don’t see a lot of mistakes with Claude, but I’m always going to verify. Just like, you know, Roger, if you told me, Worcestershire sauce is vegetarian and being a vegetarian is important to me.

I love you, but I’m not gonna trust you all the time. I’m going to verify. And so we, yes. Absolutely, absolutely. Roger, this has been super fun. And I really think that this is gonna be life -changing for a lot of people who feel stressed by cooking dinner every night, because it is every night. And I think that it’s gonna be really, really important.

Roger (25:23.828)

The more important it is to you, the more important it is to check the output.

Kathi (25:45.763)

And it’s not just dinner, it’s three meals a day. And so if Claude can help, I know wanting to eat three times a day, it’s ridiculous. Thanks for hanging out with me, Raj. Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutter -Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go live the clutter -free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group

#615 Breaking Free from Decorating “Rules”: Creating a Home You Love Part 2

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Apr 30, 2024 | Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Decorating, Home, Perfectionism, Podcast, tips and ideas | 1 comment

Listen Now

615 – Breaking Free from Decorating “Rules”: Creating a Home You Love Part 2

Are you struggling with judgmental voices from your past that insist your home décor must be showroom perfect?

Shun the shamers in your head and learn how to break free of their nitpicky demands!

Join Kathi and bestselling author Myquillyn Smith, also known as “The Nester,” as they continue their discussion about Myquillyn’s new book, “House Rules: How to Decorate for Every Home, Style, and Budget.” They’ll delve into:

Why you don’t have to fill every empty space
Using the concepts of “house hushing” and “one sane space” to quiet your quarters
Getting past perfectionism to love your space your way

As Kathi says in today’s episode, “if you love your house enough, it doesn’t matter what other people think.” Tune in now to learn how to make this your motto!

Order a copy of Myquillyn Smith’s newest book House Rules here.

Sign up here to be notified when the next episode is released.

Would you like to receive Kathi’s Clutter Free Kit in your inbox? Sign up here.

The Clutter-Free Home: Making Room for Your Life

When it comes to your home, peace is possible…

Longing for a place of peace from which you can love others well? The Clutter-Free Home is your room-by-room guide to decluttering, reclaiming, and celebrating every space of your home.

Let author Kathi Lipp (who once lived a life buried in clutter) walk you through each room of your house to create organizational zones that are not only functional and practical but create places of peace that reflect your personality. Kathi will help you tackle the four-step process of dedicate, decide, declutter and “do-your-thing” to reveal the home you’ve always dreamed of, and then transform it into a haven that reflects who you truly are meant to be.

If you’re also feeling overwhelmed by the care and upkeep of all the stuff under your feet or sense that your home is running you, instead of the other way around, come discover how to create a space that doesn’t have to be showroom perfect to be perfect for you and the people you love.

Order your copy here!

Favorite Links:

Myquillyn Smith’s website TheNester.com.

Myquillyn Smith on Instagram @thenester

Order Myquillyn’s newest book HOUSE RULES: How to Decorate for Every Home, Style, and Budget here

Take Myquillyn’s decorating quiz here

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

Where is your “one sane space?” Share your answer in the comments.

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

Leave a note in the comment section below.
Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

Meet Our Guest

Myquillyn Smith

MYQUILLYN SMITH, also known as “The Nester,” is the New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Welcome Home and Cozy Minimalist Home. For the past 17 years, she’s been encouraging women to embrace their space—imperfections and all—and make it their own. Her previous homes have been featured in Better Homes & Gardens, Ladies’ Home Journal, and Cottages & Bungalows. She recently purchased and redecorated a1905 Queen Anne Victorian home in Morganton, North Carolina, the inspiration for her new book House Rules. She’s never met a home she didn’t love.

Find her online at TheNester.com and on Instagram @thenester.

Transcript

Kathi (00:00.174)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And guys, I just, yeah, if you heard last week, you know I’m gushing, I’m not gonna gush all this time, but it’s Myquillyn Smith. The book is House Rules. You guys, she is my favorite decorating guru.

And I know you shouldn’t have gurus. You shouldn’t because you gotta create your own style. But she has helped me figure out who I am and how to live in my house. And I want her to do the same for you. Plus, you guys, she gets people who maybe wanna keep too many things in their house. She is not, she’s not judgmental. She understands our people. Myquillyn welcome back to the podcast.

Myquillyn (00:57.51)

I’m so glad to be here. You are my people. I love it.

Kathi (01:01.722)

Yes, yes, we need to we have to have a lot of crossover in our communities. I’m 100% And guys if you haven’t listened to last week go back and listen to that that’ll give you a lot of context for this week But I uh, I may love this book as much as I loved your first book Again, it’s House Rules: How to Decorate for Every Home, Style, and Budget And the reason that I love your book so much is because well

This is called House Rules. You don’t have a lot of rules or you teach us how to break the rules that maybe, I don’t know if other people feel like this, that I’ve had some very judgmental voices, house decorating voices in my head from the past and maybe kind of kept myself a little trapped. Have you ever worked with anybody like that?

Myquillyn (01:55.125)

Yeah, I mean, I have myself, I have experienced that as well, thinking I am going to get shamed or I’m gonna get told off or someone comes in my house and says, we need to get those drapes hemmed and when are we going to do this, that and the other to finish the house? That’s the kind of, yeah, I’ve experienced that myself and had to pull up my big girl pants and say, this is it, this is what I’m choosing to do so that I can

Kathi (01:57.62)

Okay.

Myquillyn (02:24.897)

have the rest of my life be full and look the way I want it to look.

Kathi (02:29.822)

You know, I remember when we sold our last house, it was, I loved it, I loved it so much. But the one thing my husband and I just said, okay, you know what, it’s just not as important to us as it is to other people. And you guys are gonna, everybody’s gonna scream when they hear this. We had popcorn ceilings. And in California, they’re very expensive to get rid of. And it’s like

we had to make choices and people would come in and say, and what are we gonna do about those popcorn ceilings? I’m like, if that’s the first thing you notice in my beautiful home, then, you know, my decorating style is not for you. It just isn’t. And so I think it’s so interesting what some people fixate on when they’re in other people’s homes. And we think, oh, nobody’s gonna notice. And it’s just weird that some people do, isn’t it? That what…

What are we going to do about those drapes on the floor? I mean, we’re going to enjoy them and love them and see that they pool beautifully. Ha ha.

Myquillyn (03:34.362)

Feel free to do something with your own money and your time.

Kathi (03:40.198)

Yes, you have volunteered. Well, okay. So I think that if you love your house enough, it doesn’t matter what other people think. It really, really doesn’t. But you have to love it. You have to say, this is what I’m doing to make my house as loving and lovely as possible. I want to dig into your rules here, because we’ve already done seven and five, you can’t ruin something you already hate and resourcefulness is the ultimate resource. But let’s talk about

Okay, this is for my cluttery girls. Rule 11, luxury isn’t having more, it’s needing less. Talk to, okay, I’m not gonna say a word, just talk to us.

Myquillyn (04:21.693)

Okay, I was reluctant to learn this because all of my life I feel like luxury is having everything at your fingertips, no matter what you could possibly need. That is the very definition of luxury. So we moved into this house and it’s a 1905 Queen Anne Victorian. And I’m pointing out the master bedroom is like the largest master bedroom we’ve ever had. We’ve never had a big bedroom.

And when we moved here, we had a bed and like my nightstands were like this big because our last house, the room was this big. So they’re like, pip squeak. I mean, we had nothing. So our bed was in there. I purchased a little sofa from the previous owner. So I had a little sofa at the end of the bed. I ended up buying a pair of nightstands and I had a couple lamps. I put up drapes. There were shutters on the window.

And one day I walked up to the room, I had painted it a little darker, beautiful muddy blue, one of my personal neutrals. And I walked up to the room and it just felt just right. I couldn’t believe it because there was no gallery wall. There was no like 300 beautiful pillows. There wasn’t three layers of rugs. There wasn’t like layers of throws. It was like so simple. There was no vignette on both of the.

Like I nothing it was so quiet and I felt like rich I felt like I was staying in a high end hotel. It was like the lack of chaos and excess was luxurious. And I have heard that my whole life. But to experience it. I was like, Oh, I get that now I get like the almost the privilege of not having to fill up my space with all of this.

Kathi (05:48.612)

Oh.

Kathi (06:06.135)

Yeah.

Kathi (06:10.752)

Mmm.

Myquillyn (06:11.677)

just in case stuff was extremely peaceful and serene and welcoming and I love beautiful things I still have you know stuff in my home but that is one space in my house that I probably will continue to keep really sparse and it feels great.

Kathi (06:21.421)

Yes.

Kathi (06:32.234)

Okay, well, the conviction is here. I have, our bedroom is big. It’s the biggest bedroom we’ve ever owned. And I love our bed. I’ve got a Suzani print couch that is just, it’s everything I love. And then I have the gray chair. And the gray chair collects all the things and has no business being in there. But I had room.

And my cluttery brain says, but you have room for it. But it brings me no joy. Why do I still have it? Why did I need you to come on a podcast for me to say, okay, it’s time to get rid of it?

Myquillyn (07:11.349)

Because our default is that empty space is like incorrect and needs to be filled. Empty space is waiting to be, it’s unfinished, which is not true. We need margin in our lives, in our decor, in our schedule, in so many things, but like I’ve learned to, sometimes I can’t get it through my brain. Like actually I would enjoy having less in my family room. So I do a little practice, I call it house hushing, where I just tell myself, you know what?

Kathi (07:37.944)

Yes.

Myquillyn (07:39.605)

we’re gonna give it 24 hours. I’m gonna just take all my little cute tchotchkes and smalls and my clocks and my pillows and my plants. And I’m gonna take everything extraneous out, just have the furniture, and I just put it in another room like crazy in the dining room on the table for 24 hours. And it’s like zen and relaxing and without fail every time I choose out of my own free will.

Kathi (07:44.857)

Mm-hmm.

Myquillyn (08:04.981)

to not bring as much in. No one has to, I don’t have to like pick up everything and ask if I love it or if it brings me joy. I don’t have to like clear and make decision fatigue. I just experience the results first of like a quieted simple space. And then I can choose if I want to get rid of something. It’s like, to me, it’s backwards decluttering and it works.

Kathi (08:10.944)

Right?

Kathi (08:25.59)

Yes. It’s the creep. It’s the creep of life. Like, I love this little thing. I’m going to put it here. I love this little thing. I love this little thing, but I don’t love the 72 little things that end up in my kitchen in six months if I don’t do something about it. And I’m not talking about, you know, the bread tie. I’m talking about the little planter or, you know, the little thing that my friend gave me.

Myquillyn (08:41.761)

Yes.

Myquillyn (08:49.975)

Yes.

Kathi (08:53.214)

And it’s okay to enjoy things for a season and then release them. And I’ve also learned it’s okay to just have that thing that my friend gave me out in the fall. It’s not a fall decoration and I love it, but it doesn’t need to be out 365 days a year because I enjoy a quieter space. I really do. I love that. And if you live near me,

Myquillyn (08:57.762)

Yes.

Myquillyn (09:18.133)

Yep.

Kathi (09:22.23)

Check Freecycle for this really beautiful but unnecessary gray chair that needs to that needs to go Okay Again for my clutter free people you are in our brains friend rule a one sane space Talk about that

Myquillyn (09:40.693)

That came about when we were living in a fixer upper and every room was in chaos. We didn’t have a sink in the kitchen. We had like plastic sheets as walls, you know, a weird electrical thing. You could get electrocuted if you weren’t careful. And I just remember thinking, okay we got to have, we have to feel like a little bit normal. We can’t have every room be in chaos. So even with the plastic walls, I just got some paint and I painted over because it was like

Hunter green walls with the wallpaper. I pulled down the border real quick. Didn’t prep it perfectly, just thought, I gotta get something up and we’ll do it better in a few months. Threw a white paint on the wall, put a rug down, got our sectional in there, a couple pillows, a lamp, the television, the dog bed, like we can watch Andy Griffith, we can watch Survivor at night. A place for our family to feel relaxed and like.

sanity in the midst of living in a complete fixer upper. And even if you’re not in a fixer upper, if you’re, the relief of having one space that feels however you need it to feel, maybe it’s more minimal, maybe it’s more cozy at this stage in your life, while you do things in your other rooms is really powerful.

Kathi (10:57.986)

Not 20 minutes before we started these interviews, I was on a call with a nurse talking through her clutter situation. And she’s sneezing through the whole thing and is just sick and run down. And she goes, but I need to declutter, I need to declutter. And like, you cannot make any decisions right now. What I want you to do is just, where do you spend most of your time when you’re

as you’re recovering, she goes, in my living room. I said, I just need you to have a clear spot where your eye line isn’t seeing any clutter. And we can deal with this when you have more energy to make decisions and to do what you need to do, but you have to have a place to rest. And if your eyes are distracted by things, all these hanging chads, all these things that still need to be done.

You can never rest. Your brain is always flipping on, oh, it’s the hunter green paint. Oh, the dog’s bed isn’t in here because I don’t wanna get stuff on. You just have to have one place that you can open your eyes and rest. And this is, I love the name of it, One Sane Space. I’ve never thought of it. I always say you just have to have one place where you can escape, but Sane Space says,

No, I can rest and recover in this area. I love that so, so much. Okay, we’re going deeper into the rules, my friend. Number 98, make your own house rules. So explain this, and I wanna hear a few of yours, and I’ve got a couple of my own as well, because I have done this, but explain this concept.

Myquillyn (12:49.761)

Well, I give a book of 100 house rules and that’s one of them. I think that we should all come up with our own rules to live by. You know, about 10 years ago on Pinterest, it was a big thing. Everyone was making their own wooden sign with like house rules, you know, dogs on the sofa and whatever, no, whatever. It was like all fun things. I love that. Like that’s one of the reasons that I liked this name for the book because I think culturally it conjures up that memory of like the fun.

Kathi (12:53.292)

Right?

Kathi (13:04.212)

Yes.

Myquillyn (13:18.541)

house rules, the relaxed house rules. But one of my personal decorating house rules is that I like my life full of color, but I like my house full of neutrals. I am persnickety and I change my mind. In the spring, if I am furniture shopping, I will buy teal furniture and blue furniture. And in the summer, I want red and pink furniture. And in the fall, I want rusty colors and muddy. And in the winter, I want white. Like I have learned, I can tell when I buy a piece of furniture,

that’s a color based on this, because it was like the season, whatever season was, the color I’m craving. I cannot do that, because I can’t buy a new sofa every four months. So, I learned I am way too like finicky and wanting to change my colors. So I will get all of my base things neutral. And then if I want colored sheets, if I want colored pillows, if I want a colored sweater, I’ll put up books with colors and flowers with colors.

Kathi (13:51.788)

Oh, yeah.

Kathi (13:57.856)

Right.

Kathi (14:10.798)

Hmm

Myquillyn (14:15.585)

but I’m not gonna buy my main pieces in color because I wanna change my mind, I wanna change it up too much. That is not a rule for everyone. Someone else might have the opposite rule and they should. So that’s my example, what is yours?

Kathi (14:24.77)

Right.

Kathi (14:30.946)

So I’ve got a practical one and I have a fun one. So in our house, flooring needs to be functional, not fabulous. And I just needed to do it because, I mean, we live where there is a high chance that chicken poop will get in our house at one point or another. We’re just not precious about stuff. And we need stuff that is functional. And we can put the pretty stuff

at waist level or above. But yeah, the floors just have, and I would never have chosen the floors that we have downstairs, but they’re exactly the right floors. The previous owners knew what they were doing when if we needed to, we could take a hose to them. We don’t do that, but we could if we needed to. And then the other thing is, my style is things we love.

And that’s just, there is nothing in my house that I don’t love. I used to have things in my house that other people loved. Like we had, I bought a pillow one time for Christmas and in red letters it says Joy. And I was so sad to put it away after Christmas. I’m like, is Joy just reserved for December? And so now I have this Joy pillow out all year long.

And it makes me so happy all year long. And it’s like, we only have things in our house that we love. And if there’s something in our house that we don’t love, we have to question, you know, I don’t love our emergency kit. We have it in our house, but it’s not something I’m displaying. And so that’s our style is things we love. And it’s never going to fit into any genre, but I…

I wake up every day and I’m happy. So

Myquillyn (16:31.021)

That is perfect. The whole goal is for you to love your home. You have arrived. Like when we love our home, we use our home. So do not change any of that.

Kathi (16:34.71)

Yeah.

Kathi (16:39.34)

Yes.

Yeah, and I’m reluctant to leave, because the world is not suited for me in any way, shape, or form, but my house is. Okay, this one. You’re a genius, this is all I’m gonna say. Rule number 99, make a we did it list. This is genius, please expand upon what this concept is.

Myquillyn (16:50.605)

and I’ll see you next time.

Myquillyn (17:06.989)

Gosh, I think when it comes to home, we are so focused on all the stuff we have to do and all the undone decisions and all the ceiling fan that needs to be replaced and we haven’t gotten to the back porch yet and the flooring in there. If we can take a moment and take stock of all the things we have done, I do this at least every year and look back like everything in our house, we do it with our goals too, like what we did with our family, but.

Kathi (17:16.91)

Hehehehe

Myquillyn (17:34.561)

You and everything counts. If we made a chicken coop, if we replaced the faucet, if I’m like, and I dusted behind the sofa, write that down, you know, change the light fixture, whatever, it all counts. I think we would be shocked at what we accomplish in a year, in a month in our home. We need to give ourselves credit for all that we’ve done in caring for our home.

Kathi (17:59.246)

And do not discount making a chicken coop because let’s be clear the one we got was advertised as like a Michaels do-it-yourself project and it turned out to be a Home Depot expert pro project It I mean it is it is a fabulous chicken coop, but holy cow. Yes I think it’s we have such I do this with decorating I do this with God, but what have you done lately? What have you done lately like?

Myquillyn (18:12.301)

It’s true.

Kathi (18:28.074)

You know, yes, I have worked so hard on my house. I forget what it was like to move out of the upstairs of our house to put flooring down. You might as well burn the house down and start over again. It is so much work, but it’s done. And it’s done for the next hopefully 20 years. But it’s so easy to focus on, yeah, but the kitchen light fixture. Like I haven’t done the kitchen light fixture.

Myquillyn (18:43.894)

I’m dead.

Kathi (18:56.858)

And I love that you’re taking stock. And this is so true in our cluttery communities. We always talk about, we declutter and then it just gets to look like that again. But here’s the thing, once you get the stuff out of your house, you never ever have to deal with that book or piece of furniture or piece of clothing ever again for the rest of your life. You may have to deal on what you’re bringing into the house but look at what you’ve done.

And we’re so proud when our kids do something, we need to also recognize ourselves for the accomplishments we’re doing. Because let’s be honest, some of these projects are hard and they take big grownup decision making that is sometimes, and you’ve saved money to do things. And if you’ve brought in outside help, that doesn’t always go the way, and you have to negotiate with the people you live with. And so anytime you accomplish something, it is…

It is a win. And guys, if you are ready to, especially if you’ve done some decluttering, I really think one of the best things you can do for yourself, and I know I learned this term from you, after you’ve quieted your house, you can take a look around and say, is there something that I want to do? Because now that my house isn’t screaming clutter at me, it can reveal its personality. It can reveal who it is.

And guys, I’m just gonna really encourage you. Take a look at this book, House Rules, How to Decorate for Every Home, Style, and Budget. Myquillyn this is, I get so inspired when I spend time with you. Thank you so much for your time and your wisdom today.

Myquillyn (20:37.341)

Oh, Kathi, you are so dear. You could, you know all of this. You don’t even need me. Like you are beyond. So I just, so happy to know you and man, you are so wise.

Kathi (20:49.758)

Okay, even if that was true, here’s what you do. You help me be brave. You help me not get, I think so many of us who deal with clutter are such, we’re perfectionists in such hard ways. We don’t do anything until we know we can do it 100%. And you’ve given me permission to say, even if I think I can do it, I should try. I’m probably not gonna burn the house down. I probably am not going to have to repaint the whole room. And…

You know, maybe some $20 decisions are okay to take a flyer on. So I know a lot of what you teach, but you helped me be brave to enact it. And that’s what I want for everybody in my community. So thank you. Thank you, friend.

Myquillyn (21:36.749)

Oh, happy to be here. Thank you.

Kathi (21:39.69)

And friends, thank you for being here. You are the best part of us gathering each week. You’ve been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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