#664 &#8211; Transform Your Underwear Drawer: Tips for a Peaceful Start to Your Day

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my Clutter co-creator. Yeah, we create clutter together, but we also clean it up together. It’s Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. Okay, this is Clutter After Dark.

Tonya Kubo (00:24)

Hey, Kathi!

Kathi Lipp (00:33)

This is our most intimate episode ever. Guys, we’re talking underwear here. Can I just say, before we talk about getting into discussing, we’re talking about decluttering your underwear and sock drawer. Now, first of all, Tonya, do your underwear and sock co-mingle? Like, how are you set up?

Tonya Kubo (00:38)

Can we have

Yeah, so my underwear, socks, co-mingle.

Kathi Lipp (01:04)

Okay, okay. And when I’m saying underwear, I’m meaning all the categories, okay? So like, okay. Yeah, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (01:09)

Yeah, yeah. So like for me, it’s like camis and

like long, like long johns and stuff for when I travel to cold areas. My slips, all of that. That’s all one drawer with the socks.

Kathi Lipp (01:17)

Okay.

Okay,

there are gonna be people who are like, what are slips? I mean there really will be. That’s okay. Hey, so, but you didn’t slip, okay, nevermind. We’re gonna stop with all the puns. Yeah, my underwear, sock drawer, it’s bras, sports bras, tights, all of that kind of stuff. And they’re all very individual. But I do wanna say this. If you have never tried…

Tonya Kubo (01:25)

I know. I know. But I have a slurp.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:49)

the sports bras and underwear from Costco, may I highly suggest like I I I’ve I have converted I have converted fully and I’ll put the links down there to they’re not affiliate links. A lot of the things we do in here are affiliate links, which means hey, the clutter free people make a little bit of money off of this. So but these are not Costco doesn’t do that kind of thing. But I just love them so much. And you know what?

Tonya Kubo (01:53)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:17)

I love that I can pick up some new underwear next to my rotisserie chicken. Just makes me super happy. Okay, so if you are tired of mismatched socks, holy underwear, or random junk in your drawers, today we have got a very quick plan to fix it. We are gonna talk about matching socks, we’re gonna talk about organizers, we’re gonna throw out.

what’s worn and unloved, we’re gonna get you into shape. Because I don’t know about you, Tonya, like my first thing I do in the morning is drink coffee, and the second thing I do in the morning is get ready. So gathering up what I’m going to wear is one of my first jobs, and I don’t wanna be mad first thing in the morning. So this feels like a good launching point for us.

Tonya Kubo (02:45)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no, I agree. And so, and this is timely for me because I just went through my socks and underwear drawer. We just did a deep laundry decluttering of everybody’s clothing and such. So, but I have a feeling that your situation’s a lot different than my situation because you have fewer people and you don’t have children in the house. So tell me what was your drawer situation before you tackled it.

Kathi Lipp (03:14)

Did you? Okay.

nice.

Yeah. Yes. Right.

Okay, so I have one big giant drawer and I was trying to kind of put things into piles. So like there was a sock pile and there was an underwear pile and a miscellaneous pile. And then also let’s talk about the nonsense that was in my drawer because that’s a running theme in this podcast. So I probably would win.

Tonya Kubo (03:38)

Mm-hmm.

You

Kathi Lipp (04:01)

the award for the strangest thing kept in my underwear drawer, which was a footprint of one of my chickens who has passed. I…

Tonya Kubo (04:16)

see why you would keep it in the underwear drawer though.

Kathi Lipp (04:18)

I didn’t know what else to do with it. And so like it was one of those things where I, yeah, I just didn’t know what, I think a lot of things that we don’t know what to do with end up in that kind of drawer. Okay, do tell me.

Tonya Kubo (04:33)

I’ll make you feel a little bit better, Kathi. So in mine,

baby teeth, because where are the kids guaranteed not to look, right? They’re not going to dig through mom’s underwear. The second thing is during the pandemic, right? I couldn’t go to a salon and get pedicure. So I bought like all the salon stuff and all the extra like foot files and that thing that looks like a bar of soap, but is actually like porous that they scrub your foot with. I have one of those in my underwear drawer. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (04:38)

Yes, yes, I… Right, exaca. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yes, right?

Okay,

yes, yes.

Tonya Kubo (05:03)

Yeah.

So and then I have like just random stuff. have markers, Sharpie markers that I didn’t want Abby to get into to draw on the walls. Put them in my underwear drawer, of course. So there you go.

Kathi Lipp (05:10)

Yes.

Look,

and why do receipts end up there? That’s a good question. Receipts, phone chargers, things like that, right?

Tonya Kubo (05:20)

Yeah. Right.

Totally. Totally true. Okay. So we got a picture of your drawer and all the randomness. What was that like during your day to day life? I imagine you weren’t having to take out the chicken foot imprint every single time to get ready, but still there was probably like, I don’t know, some wasted effort.

Kathi Lipp (05:36)

No,

Okay, well, I’m admitting all my foolishness in one place, okay? So why did I have socks in there that the elastic was blown out on? I think I was just so happy that I matched the sock that I didn’t care if I actually liked the sock.

Tonya Kubo (05:58)

Right?

My college roommate used to say, if it’s washed, it has to be worn before you can get rid of it. Otherwise you wasted the effort of washing. Yeah. So any things she would like come out with like, holey underwear. And she’s like, no, I have to wear these, but as soon as I wear them, I will throw them away. And I’m like, I would throw them away now actually.

Kathi Lipp (06:10)

I totally get that.

Okay. Yes.

my goodness. Yes. Because what if you end up at the hospital with holey underwear? I’m, you know, like this is deeply embedded in me, but here’s the thing, something that I haven’t really talked with you a bunch about, you know, I have, you know this, I have a bad back and I have done a lot of strength training and everything like that. And you know, they show all these commercials for people, for shoes to put on.

you know, when it’s hard for you to bend. And for me, it’s just one side of my body. What they don’t talk about is the socks. The socks, shoes are not a problem for me. It’s the socks. And so here’s the problem. If one of my, I tend to watch, wear those no-show socks because I’m a Gen Xer. That’s what we prefer. And if one of those socks slips down while I’m in the middle of Costco,

Tonya Kubo (06:53)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:20)

It’s not going back up. Yeah, and so like those need to be gone friend. Those need to be gone. Yeah, it’s my secret chain. Okay, so it was frustrating. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (07:20)

yeah, yeah.

Okay, it was frustrating.

But you’re on the other side, Kathi You are teaching us from the other side. So, and what I love about the series that we’ve been talking about, where we’re tackling these small spaces, is your solutions are just simple and yet with high impact. So tell me where you got started with your underwear and socks drawer.

Kathi Lipp (07:37)

I am.

Yes.

Okay, removing all the single socks. Like, okay, why are single socks there? I think what I thought was, well, when I find the other single sock, I will go back there. What I finally did is I just have a bag with single socks, and after a little while, like, I’ll gather all of them up, and I’ll say, these have been in here for three months. Now, if I don’t find them in the next go around, they need to be thrown away. But also, throwing away socks where

Tonya Kubo (08:16)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:26)

The elastic is blown out on them. They’re not the ones I like. They feel funny on my feet. Now, let me also say, when I was a single mom, it didn’t matter if they felt funny on my feet. I was keeping them because I was broke, right? But can we all agree if your underwear is falling down, it’s time to throw it away. If it’s cutting off your circulation or something like that.

Tonya Kubo (08:30)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Kathi Lipp (08:56)

I need you to throw those things away because that’s not how we should be living. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (09:00)

Exactly. Well, I would say if

anything that is supposed to be contained is falling out, you deserve to throw them away.

Kathi Lipp (09:07)

Exactly and let me also say with those single socks. I finally just realized I need to keep those in The laundry room so when I’m done folding laundry if there’s a sock left over I can put that where the other socks go instead of having to do a sock scavenger hunt before I try matching things up

Tonya Kubo (09:16)

Mmm.

Right?

Okay, so you had one spot for your random socks. You talked about getting rid of your worn out unwanted items, right? So the socks that slipped down, the undies that just have lost their containment factor. So once you get rid of all the bad stuff, then what?

Kathi Lipp (09:34)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

They’re not doing it anymore. Yes, exactly.

I’ll also say on the underwear anything you’d be embarrassed to show up at the hospital with you know let’s just go ahead and say you know Stains you know things like that whatever you need to do. Just be done with it. Okay, so now what I’ve done is I’ve used a couple of organizational solutions, so I Don’t know it’s called a honeycomb organizer and Okay, so it is

Tonya Kubo (10:02)

Mm-hmm.

I have no idea what that is. Talk to me, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (10:21)

You put it down in your and I’ll link all of this in our show notes so you can see what I’m talking about. But it’s got like a bunch of little squares. They’re more like trying like diamonds that when you undo this and you can put a pair of socks in there or you can put a pair of underwear in there. So it’s not just a giant pile, but you can see everything you have. And for me,

Tonya Kubo (10:35)

Got it.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:50)

And I think for a lot of people who struggle with clutter, when things are hidden, they’re no longer used. And so this says, no, this is what you have and you can go, I just love going to my drawer and plucking out that orange pair of no-show socks. Nobody’s gonna see them, but I know that they’re there and it makes me so happy. And I can see everything I have. And then I have some small fabric boxes for things like bras or sports bras.

Tonya Kubo (10:55)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (11:18)

tights, underwear, things like that. It just is a way of being able to see everything. Now, I’ve ordered those off of Amazon, but if you are, you know, if money is a struggle right now, which it is for a lot of people, could you use a shoe box? Could you use a tiny shoe box for little kids? At one point in my life, I use cereal boxes for organization. just…

Tonya Kubo (11:47)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:48)

I

had to because I had no money. So those are things you could use. So try using multiple smaller boxes with out lids and that can really help you keep organized in some of, it’s just a drawer divider that will get you to the next step.

Tonya Kubo (12:05)

Ooh, okay, well I am excited because we are going to go on a break, but when we come back, you’re actually going to answer probably one of the most often questions, often asked questions that we get in Clutterfree Academy, which is how many pairs do you actually need? Seriously, Kathi, that question comes up all the time. Plus you are going to tell us what to do with those items that don’t belong. We’ll be right back.

Kathi Lipp (12:08)

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:32)

All right, we are back Kathi and you are going to tell us the secrets of the universe as it relates to underwear and socks drawers. How do we figure out how many pairs of socks and underwear we really need?

Kathi Lipp (12:37)

Yeah

I think the first thing you have to figure out is how often do you do laundry? Because if you’re doing laundry just once a week, figure out how many pairs of underwear, how many pairs of socks you wear in a week. And I would say add two or three, right? Because you want to be able, but if you’re doing laundry multiple times a week, you probably don’t need as many. Maybe you just need divide by two, add three.

Tonya Kubo (12:52)

Hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:17)

So I think really using your scientific method here and saying, what do I actually use? And if you’re like, I don’t know, that doesn’t feel like enough, that feels weird, that feels scary, then what I’ll suggest you do is put in the amount that feels comfortable in that space. So maybe eight pairs of underwear feels good in that space. Do you ever run out?

Tonya Kubo (13:17)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:44)

That’s a great question. Do I ever run out of that space? I tried to dial back to eight. It didn’t really work for me because sometimes I’m wearing more than a pair in a day. know, sometimes when I’m changing for bed, like whatever, everybody has their own routine. So you have to figure out what actually works for you. And I think that that’s okay to do. I also have different kinds of socks. I have the no-show socks and then I have the socks I wear in the snow.

Tonya Kubo (13:45)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (14:12)

So eight pairs of socks is not going to be enough. When it’s cold outside, I need more heftier socks. So you just have to apply a little bit of the scientific method. One thing that really helped me figure this out though, Tonya, was when I, in addition to that honeycomb organizer I talked about and the different little boxes, I put drawer dividers in my drawers.

Tonya Kubo (14:20)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (14:41)

These are spring loaded so that they fit the short ways in your drawer. So I have now a section for underwear, a section for sports bras, a section for regular bras. It’s like putting drawer dividers in there so that you can section out your space. And that really said, this is how much space I actually have.

Tonya Kubo (14:41)

you

Okay.

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Kathi Lipp (15:07)

for my bras. This is actually how much space I have for my slips or tights or whatever it is. And that really helped me out.

Tonya Kubo (15:08)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

I love that. I love that. And I think that, you you brought up some good points about not just laundry schedule, but also habit. For instance, like when I used to, I used to work out six days a week, not the life I currently live, but I would like there was the workout underwear that served a certain purpose. There was the day to day underwear that served a certain purpose. So that was a time in my life when I needed a lot more than I need now. But I love that idea of combining

Kathi Lipp (15:26)

Yeah. Okay.

Yes, right, yes.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (15:43)

the physical space that you have to fit the things with the laundry schedule. I think that’s really powerful.

Kathi Lipp (15:46)

Yes.

And Tonya, we are not minimalists, but we are minimal-ish. We are always determining what is the least amount of an item that I could live with that still serves its purpose. Minimalists might say, no, I’m going to arrange my life around only having

Tonya Kubo (15:53)

No.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:16)

you know, five pairs of socks. No, we’re going to arrange our socks out of our minimal need that we actually have.

Tonya Kubo (16:17)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, like when we were just going through our stuff, you know, I settled on 13 pairs of underwear. Why? Because I just, because actually it was like, these are my favorite, like these are my favorites, right? And then I made an Amazon mistake, which I’m just sharing with our listeners in case they make the mistake. So sometimes on Amazon, you think you’re ordering one thing and it come to find out you are ordering a package of multiple things. And so I had wanted to get some of those long boxer shorts.

Kathi Lipp (16:31)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yes! Yes!

Yes. Right.

Tonya Kubo (16:55)

to wear underneath dresses. And I wanted a black pair and a white pair and I accidentally ordered packages of eight pairs each.

Kathi Lipp (17:04)

Wow, fancy you.

Tonya Kubo (17:07)

fancy me with my 16 pairs of long boxer shorts that roll all the way up to your hip if you try to wear them underneath jeans. So I just decided that, you know, the 10 or so pairs that did not get worn at all did not need to be with me at all. And Brian was very happy. I think I have my own section of the donation center at this point, but. Right.

Kathi Lipp (17:10)

Right.

that’s so funny.

Right?

I love that. I love that

so much. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (17:35)

So I just want

to share, since we are sharing some Amazon links in the show notes, I just want to let you all know that you should pay attention to both the quantity and also the unit items inside the quantity that you’re purchasing.

Kathi Lipp (17:43)

It’s so true. It’s so true,

absolutely.

Tonya Kubo (17:49)

Okay, so Kathi, talk to me about brands. Because you mentioned like there’s some no-show socks that you particularly like. You like the Costco underwear. But at some point, you were using something else. How do you fit like the whole brands I love versus maybe I spent good money on this? You know the thing.

Kathi Lipp (17:56)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Okay. So my whole life has been, I spent good money on this. I need to wear it as a punishment. One of my favorite discoveries this year is the Wirecutter show. I’ve talked to you about this before. It is the New York Times Wirecutter where they do their product recommendations and they do extensive testing. One of my favorite things that we just bought, Tonya, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (18:11)

Right.

Mmm, yes, yes.

Kathi Lipp (18:36)

My life has changed, we just got a new mattress. And which is a very expensive purchase, right? Now it’s not their most expensive purchase, which by the way, they don’t recommend because they’re not crazy, but it’s a $75,000 mattress that Martha Stewart, but their product tester did sleep on it for six months to say, is this really worth it? Just to make sure.

Tonya Kubo (18:40)

Whoa.

Yeah.

just to make sure it wasn’t worth $75,000,

I’m sure.

Kathi Lipp (19:03)

Right,

she sacrificed, she goes, if I could, I would buy it, but that’s not how I’m choosing to spend my money. So I really listened and that’s how I found out about the Costco underwear, you know, and they like to recommend, hey, if you’re a normal person, this is a decent price to spend to get this decent thing. Well, you know, I’ve owned two pairs of Bamba socks in my life and I love a Bamba sock.

Tonya Kubo (19:09)

Hahaha

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:31)

But you know what, I kept on thinking I could get the same effect with these Costco brands. Now in the Costco underwear, yes, I’m getting great results. The socks, maybe it’s because I have size 11 feet, I don’t know. They’re just not the same. Can I just tell you I doubled down and I got an eight pack of Bamba socks. And I need to wear those until Jesus comes back.

Tonya Kubo (19:46)

Mm-hmm.

Go you!

Kathi Lipp (20:00)

But you know what, here’s the thing. I have bought so many pairs of socks cheaping out and they’re the ones that, you know, when I talk about rolling down my feet, Bombas has never done that to me. They’ve always treated me right. So I think if there’s a brand you love and you’re going to invest in it, then follow the directions on how to wash and dry them.

Tonya Kubo (20:03)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:27)

You know, figure out what’s gonna keep them the brand you love and stick with those brands you love. And if you’ve never tried a bomba sock before, I’ll give you a link, because man, they are just the best. I love them so much, yeah. And you can get a discount code too. So we’ll share those.

Tonya Kubo (20:46)

Okay, well, so we talked a little bit earlier about the weird stuff in the drawers. What’d you do with your weird stuff and how do we prevent just wedging any old thing in our underwear and socks drawer?

Kathi Lipp (20:50)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

So like what I just talked about with the bombas, you want to go to your drawer and everything in there is something that you use and you love and would buy again. The chicken footprint, maybe not. Maybe not. So do you have a place that things that are meaningful to you, but they don’t really have a place in your life?

Tonya Kubo (21:07)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:23)

So one of the things I have committed to myself to do is I’m gonna display that footprint. I’m gonna find a place in the house for it. And it doesn’t have to be, it doesn’t have to be a big place on my wall. It could just be something that I love. Other things that I found in there. Sometimes I put things in there because I can’t decide. And if I can’t decide and I haven’t used it in this long, like I got these.

Tonya Kubo (21:29)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (21:52)

Like I don’t even know how to describe them. They’re like they smell good. They’re supposed to be atomizers, but I don’t really know how I don’t know. They’re weird. I have never used them. I’m just going to throw them away and it’s okay. So only keep things in there that are meant for that drawer. Do you have a box you could put things in? Like these are meaningful to me, but I don’t have a place for them right now. It’s okay to have some precious memory places in your life.

Tonya Kubo (22:03)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and you know, as we wrap up sort of this discussion on the underwear and sock drawer, you know, we’ve talked about in some cases, you’ve got like seasonality that you need to think about. I think for most of us, socks and underwear aren’t seasonal. I know for me, I do have four pairs of like really thick socks that I’ll wear with boots versus my thinner summer socks. But I think you can just honestly tuck them into the back corner of the drawer or just get a small bin if you need to. Would you do anything different?

Kathi Lipp (22:30)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, right.

Nope, you know, the only thing I do differently is I do have fall boxes that we put upstairs and sometimes I’ll put some of those things in there because I know I’m not going to need them before fall. But you know, we’ve got a weird situation here.

Tonya Kubo (23:03)

Yeah. So, okay. So this wraps up our steps that we have gone through socks and underwear drawer. I don’t think we’ve ever spent quite so much time discussing such tiny aspects of clothing, but hey, this is an important thing. I’m curious though, Kathi, socks and underwear, it feels like it can get out of hand easily. How do you keep it tidy once you’re happy with how it is?

Kathi Lipp (23:14)

Yes? Yeah.

Just keep going back to that drawer and saying, does this make me happy? And if you have kids that you’re working with them on that drawer, like are you actually wearing these things that are in the back corner? Look at the bottom of the drawer. Are the things that are never getting daylight? Not that your socks and underwear should get too much daylight. But if they’re not going through the laundry on a regular basis, it may be time to just say, you know what, we don’t need these anymore.

And that’s okay, that’s okay. That’s why I really suggest getting brands you love so that you’re not re-buying mistake after mistake, because I’ve done that. I’ve wasted a lot of money doing that instead of just buying what I love, because I want to go to that drawer and feel like everything in here is something that I’m happy to wear.

Tonya Kubo (24:16)

I love that. Okay. Absolute mic drop right there. Everything is something that you’re happy to wear. Now listeners, you want to check our show notes because we have a simple downloadable guide for transforming that old sock and underwear drawer into a tidy functional space, following the tips that Kathi shared today. And we’ve got links to all the cool stuff that she mentioned, the Bamba socks, the Costco undies. I don’t know what else, but I’m sure, the honeycomb organizer. I almost forgot about that, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (24:43)

Yes, yes,

very important.

Tonya Kubo (24:46)

And

we cannot wait to hear from you next time. Now, Kathi, thank you so much for breaking this down, spending the amount of time that you have in helping us really make sense of this small but important to function space. Any other things you want to add before we close off?

Kathi Lipp (25:02)

Yes.

And we have all been in that broke place where we’re just happy to have any underwear. And I also want you to curate your life. I want your underwear drawer to be the least stressful part of your day. That’s my goal with this podcast.

Tonya Kubo (25:26)

I love that. I love that. Okay. Well, you have been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I am Tonya Kubo with Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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In this Clutter-Free Academy episode, Kathi Lipp teams up with her favorite clutter co-conspirator, Tonya Kubo, to address a common household nemesis: the overflowing coat closet. Perfect for those with or without a traditional coat closet, Kathi and Tonya share innovative tips and strategies to transform any space into a functional launch pad for daily success.

Listeners will discover the surprising power of matching hangers and learn how to repurpose their coat closet space with hanging bins, command hooks, and even a USB rechargeable light for those darker nooks and crannies. In addition, Kathi and Tonya delve into the emotional connections tied to clothing and how to overcome them in order to achieve a streamlined, organized coat closet.

Whether you’re tackling seasonal rotations or maintaining a tidy launch pad, this episode is packed with actionable advice to help you maintain a clutter-free lifestyle all year round. Plus, be sure to check out the downloadable resource and join the conversation in our Clutter Free Academy and Clutter Free for Life communities!

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps every day to live with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my favorite Clutter co-conspirator. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. okay. It’s time for us to come out of the closet on this one. Do you have a coat closet? Okay, see, easy. Your solution is here.

Tonya Kubo (00:23)

Hey, Kathi.

No.

My whole house

has two closets. That’s it.

Kathi Lipp (00:40)

I Tonya I don’t even know I can’t oh my goodness you know what you

Tonya Kubo (00:45)

It’s okay. It’s okay.

I wish I had a coat closet. Not gonna lie.

Kathi Lipp (00:51)

You’ve made your house work without a coat closet. Okay, so let’s talk about this in some generalities. We have a coat closet. I don’t know if you remember what that coat closet looks like, but it did not come with the house. It’s a built-in. So it’s very different kind of situation that doesn’t work for everybody, but it’s really helped us.

Tonya Kubo (00:59)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm. Yes!

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:20)

Can I just say our coat closet can become a catchall? And yeah, it’s not great. And so I want to talk coat closets today. I think a lot of listeners will identify this, that I have spent many years avoiding opening my coat closet, afraid that random stuff is going to fall out. But today we are going to share a game plan to fix that.

Tonya Kubo (01:49)

Oooooh! I like a good game plan even if it doesn’t apply to my specific situation.

Kathi Lipp (01:50)

Yes.

It’s a big promise, I’m not gonna lie. You know what, and if you don’t have a coat closet like Tonya, think of this maybe as what is your launch pad? What is the launch pad for getting out of the house? Because we all have to have that. So this is not going to directly impact you, but this may give you some ideas.

Tonya Kubo (02:05)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so you mentioned that your coat closet got a little scary. So why don’t you start us off with like, were the biggest challenges that you were facing before you got on top of it?

Kathi Lipp (02:29)

Okay, so can we, is there a word that’s multi-seasonality? okay, I just made, yeah, I get to make up words. I love that so much. So what the problem was is there were too many things living in that closet at the same time. You know, we had not only, granted, where we live, we need to keep some different things in our coat closet.

Tonya Kubo (02:36)

You just made it up, Kathi. That’s okay. You are an author. You are allowed to make up words as much as you want.

Hmm. Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:59)

Like a lot of our listeners do live in snow country, so they may need to keep a snow scraper in that coat closet. Most of our listeners don’t need to keep bear spray in there. But you know.

Tonya Kubo (03:08)

I was just gonna

say, but in your coat closet you have to keep bear spray and pain reliever.

Kathi Lipp (03:13)

We do.

And pain reliever, have some different drawers that we’ll talk about in a different episode. But the major coat area, you know, we were keeping our spring coats in there and, you know, that little summer jacket and the big heavy winter coat. There was just, there was a lot going on and it was just a great place to stash stuff. And yeah, it got a little…

Tonya Kubo (03:19)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (03:41)

It was out of control, we couldn’t find things. Things were not there when they needed to be and their coats sometimes got jammed in because we ran out of hangers. Random items on the base of it. Just, I mean, no real system, no real system.

Tonya Kubo (04:00)

Yeah, well, it sounds like it had quite the impact on just the day to day life, right? Like just it takes more time to do things when you have to like devote time to digging through.

Kathi Lipp (04:05)

Yeah.

Why do we own seven hats if we can’t find one when we need to leave the house? Like these are, yeah. Or why do we need six dog leashes if there’s never anywhere they’re supposed to be? And it wasn’t that it made me late for stuff, you know, because anywhere I’m going, it’s gonna take an hour and a half. So I left plenty of times. But we would forget stuff all the time because, you know, what was hidden was forgotten.

Tonya Kubo (04:15)

Or the right one.

Mm-hmm.

Right. So can you walk us through sort of what was the first move there?

Kathi Lipp (04:47)

Okay, so I’m not normally a big fan of this, especially for large areas, but for this coat closet, I will recommend pulling at least categories out at all at once. So things like pulling out all the coats, or maybe pulling out all the scarves, or hats, or things like that.

Tonya Kubo (04:56)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:15)

And then really deciding what did we actually need? Do I actually wear this coat? If not, it got donated. Donating good things, things in good condition. We didn’t have a lot of stuff that was in bad condition, but if it was rarely worn, one question was, okay, maybe I only wear this once a year. I have a fancy coat, okay? I have a.

Tonya Kubo (05:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:43)

It’s not fancy, but it’s a nice coat. got it for a business trip in Chicago. I rarely wear it. Does that need to be in the front hall closet? I consider that prime real estate. So I just decided to keep that in my bedroom closet and I could pull it out when I needed it. So it’s really curating what we needed in each category. Why do I have seven beanies?

Tonya Kubo (05:50)

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:13)

I don’t know, because they were, I don’t know. Yeah, maybe somebody gave me one. Let’s be honest, they were on sale at Costco. Let’s just be honest. So there were things like that, but I don’t need all of those. So the first thing really was removing those extra coats. You asked me what the first step was, it was removing extra coats and things that just didn’t need to be there.

Tonya Kubo (06:14)

I was gonna say, why did you have seven meetings? mean, no judgment, just curious.

Right.

Okay and then what came after that do you think?

Kathi Lipp (06:45)

So that’s when we, I don’t know about you, Tonya, but there was just so much nonsense, so much nonsense. Like why were tools in there? Explain to, why? I don’t know. I think, just for now, it’s so true, it’s so true. And then why was there mail in there? Like that’s not where the mail goes.

Tonya Kubo (06:58)

Well, cause you put it there just for now until you decide where you really want it, right?

no, no, I understand. I will explain why there was mail there. Because you came inside the house and you had the mail in your hand and you had your coat on. And so you put the mail down so that you can take off your coat. But while you’re taking off your coat, another idea entered your brain. And so you pivoted around and you went to go take action on that other idea, completely forgetting.

Kathi Lipp (07:13)

Okay, please tell me.

Yes, yes, yeah.

Yes.

Go.

Tonya Kubo (07:36)

that your mail is inside the coat closet. The same thing is also what happens to your remote control. Mine’s usually in the fridge.

Kathi Lipp (07:42)

my goodness. my goodness. Okay, I’ve never done that. That’s impressive. I have to say. Ours gets lost in the bed sheets all the time. And then in the middle of the night, we’re like, why? Why did friends just pop on? Because Moose was walking across the bed. Yes. Okay, we each house has its own problems, right? Yeah. So to really decide, like each space in your house has to have its own purpose. And so I need

Tonya Kubo (07:47)

all the time.

You

No.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:10)

It’s okay for me to put the mail on the front table as long as I’m putting the mail the same place each time and the coat closet is probably not it.

Tonya Kubo (08:15)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, the coat closet’s not it because a coat closet has a door. You will never see the mail again. That’s just what happens. Okay, so, you know, I hesitate to ask this question because I think some people are gonna roll their eyes and go, gee whiz, Tonya, it’s a coat closet. You can’t have emotional connections to your coats. But I happen to know that our listeners and our community members who are over in Clutterfree Academy and Clutterfree for Life struggle with emotional connections.

Kathi Lipp (08:25)

Yes, exactly. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (08:51)

to items that other people don’t understand. So I’m curious, was there any of that as you were going through your coat closet, anything where you felt emotionally connected to having it there or where you really felt strongly about needing it to be there just in case something were to happen?

Kathi Lipp (09:08)

Okay, so not this version of the coat closet, but I will talk about the version we had at our house in San Jose and That was the army green jacket that I had in Japan and You know what? Okay, so Some of the best memories I had in my life before I married Roger Happened in that army green jacket now. I will also say

Tonya Kubo (09:15)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:37)

I did not wear that same size army green jacket for a very long, pretty much my whole first marriage and much of my second marriage, but I couldn’t get rid of it. And so what finally made me get rid of it, this is so embarrassing. I had some dog treats in it apparently, and we had a little bit of an infestation at our house. And yeah.

Tonya Kubo (09:46)

Yeah.

Hmm.

yeah, that happens.

Kathi Lipp (10:05)

And so we had to get rid of the jacket. yeah, it hung in my house without being used for years and years and years. And what I wish I would have done was give it to somebody. Because there’s some kid, some emo kid would have loved that jacket. I could have given it to Lily at some point, right? Yes, yes.

Tonya Kubo (10:16)

Yeah.

Yes, yes!

You totally could have given it to Lilly. You totally could have.

Because she was definitely in an army green phase before she was in her black on black phase, which is where we’re at right now.

Kathi Lipp (10:33)

Yes, and

we all have some of those things that it’s like, okay, I’ll get back into it. Or you know what, maybe somebody will come visit me at the house and they need an army green jacket. know, like, these are all things. And when you have chaos like that, you don’t use the stuff that you have. It’s really, we stash things in there because we’re thinking we’ll deal with it later. Like you said earlier,

Tonya Kubo (10:46)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (11:01)

But today, let’s all handle that. Let’s handle our business, Tonya. Let’s, yeah, yes.

Tonya Kubo (11:05)

Yeah, let’s handle the business for the here and now as

it comes. So, okay, we’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, you are gonna talk to us about matching hangers. I’m very curious about hearing more of this. Hanging bins and more. All right, so we’ll see you after the break.

Kathi Lipp (11:18)

Yes, okay. Yes, yes.

Tonya Kubo (11:26)

All right, well, welcome back. So Kathi, I can’t remember if I heard this on a Facebook live you did or if it was something you did in our membership community, but I have heard you in the past say that matching hangers can transform the look of any space that has hangers instantly. I need you to tell me more about

Kathi Lipp (11:34)

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so you said in our last podcast episode that you think every space in our house could potentially be one that brings us joy when we go there. And can I tell you one of the cheat codes to joy is matching hangers. And here’s what I love about that. And it doesn’t have to be expensive hangers. I will tell you for my personal closet upstairs, I have those thin black.

Tonya Kubo (11:57)

Mm-hmm.

I believe that.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:16)

Velvet hangers the joy hangers Roger hates those with a fiery passion Okay, is it because they are Superman and they feel like they have to get dressed very quickly and the velvet slows them down Is it a textural issue? What is it for these guys? Okay, I Like them like that. Yes. Yes in our one of our guest rooms. We have matching

Tonya Kubo (12:17)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brian feels the same way. I love mine.

Brian says they’re too thin. That’s why I like them. I like them because they’re so thin.

Kathi Lipp (12:43)

red plastic hangers. They’re not fancy, but they get the job done. But in my coat closet, we have, and I’ve got a link to them. They’re just wood hangers. They’re not crazy expensive, but they look so nice. And here’s a couple of reasons why I like them. One, the hangers go back to the closet they’re supposed to go to. Can I say that again? The hangers go back to the closet they’re supposed to.

Tonya Kubo (12:44)

Mm-hmm.

you

Kathi Lipp (13:12)

So Roger doesn’t have wood hangers hanging out in his closet. I don’t have white plastic hangers from his closet hanging out in mine. And it curates your closet. If you have 12 hangers in your closet, maybe that’s eight for your coats and then four for guests. That’s plenty. That’s what we need. And there are only two people living in my house. Your house, but it also makes it look put together. It’s a very simple way.

Tonya Kubo (13:31)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (13:41)

for it to visually come together very, very quickly. I love them. And it prevents coat pileups, know, those hangers that, you know, they just make me want to keep the space looking good.

Tonya Kubo (13:54)

Yeah, yeah, I could see that. Well, and especially, like I can even see an application just household wide if everybody had their own like designated hanger, then you’re putting laundry away. It’s very easy to pick out whose stuff is whose. So I really like that idea. So, okay. So, but there’s some things I think that go in coat closets. I say I think because I currently don’t have one, but I used to have one.

Kathi Lipp (14:03)

Yeah. Right.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Yes. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (14:18)

that don’t go on hangers, hats,

gloves, grocery bags. I mean, it depends on what you do, right? What do you do about that stuff?

Kathi Lipp (14:23)

Yeah.

Yes. Okay,

I’m gonna give you the best solution. I got these hanging baskets. They’re three tiers of hanging baskets. They hook on just like a hanger. So it’s got two hooks and it takes up a little bit of space, but we have one for gloves. We have one for scarves. We’ve got one for those grocery bags. I want you to think about it like this.

Tonya Kubo (14:37)

Okay?

Kathi Lipp (14:51)

What do I need to launch when I go out of the house? And if I open that coat closet, mine has two doors. That’s why if you’re watching the video here on YouTube, you will see me opening with two doors. But if you have those spaces, you can just open up and say, here’s everything I need to leave the house. And so having those hanging bins,

Tonya Kubo (14:57)

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (15:17)

gives you things like, we have one for all of our moose supplies, know, so those, you know, poop bags and leashes and collars and things like that, reusable bags, bear spray, like there’s a space for everything. So nothing is on the bottom floor of that coat closet that you don’t want to be there.

Tonya Kubo (15:21)

Mm-hmm.

Great, okay, so you are always so good. This is the problem when we reverse roles is Kathi, you are always so good at counting us out and I have not been counting us out. So when it comes to decluttering the coat closet, so step one was you got rid of the coats you no longer wear. Step two was you don’t advocate this normally, but in the case of a small space like a coat closet, pulling everything out that doesn’t belong and then going through it and only putting the stuff back that makes sense. And then.

Kathi Lipp (15:50)

Yeah, that’s okay.

Yes.

Right. Right.

Tonya Kubo (16:09)

For step three, we talked about the matching hangers and just how that just feels good to look at. And then step four is hanging bins for the small items, the hats, the gloves, the grocery bags, bear spray in your case. All right, take me to step five.

Kathi Lipp (16:13)

Mm-hmm.

It feels great.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so we like to have in our coat closet our car keys wallets purses and Yeah, we’re putting a lot in that coat closet so I want to be able to see what I have and we we introduced the USB rechargeable light that you can put in by a magnet This is another great place for it if your coat closet doesn’t already have a light

Tonya Kubo (16:44)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:58)

Or maybe your coat closet is in a hall where there’s a light outside the hall, but there’s not one inside. May I highly suggest, and we’ll put it again in the show notes, this USB light that is just installed with a magnet. You don’t need to rewire anything. It will give you, you can see into every nook and cranny. But the other magical thing in here, the thing I cannot live without, command hooks. I love.

Tonya Kubo (17:24)

yes, we like those at our house

too.

Kathi Lipp (17:26)

Yes,

I love a good command hook. So I use a command hook. I personally, I do have a bunch of different purses for different activities. I like a good handbag, but my wallet is on a loop. And so I can just hang my wallet on a command hook. We can hang all of our keys on a command hook. You can also put, if you want to do,

Tonya Kubo (17:36)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:54)

like your grocery shopping bags. If you don’t wanna put them into one of those hanging bins, you could put those on a command hook. You can use those for a million different things and they just make your life so, so much better. Dog leash, other small items, you use accordingly.

Tonya Kubo (18:02)

Mmm.

Yeah, and so with the command hooks, you and we’ll link to those in the show notes as well. Those are nice because they attach with adhesive in most cases. And so you don’t have to worry about making holes anywhere or like, I don’t know, but if I have to put a screw or a nail in something suddenly that feels like home improvement and I’m not all about that life.

Kathi Lipp (18:23)

Yes.

Yes, right.

It’s a different level. What we’re talking about here, everything that we’ve shared about is A level. Or is it D, you know, is it F level? Let’s say it’s F level and A level is redoing your bathroom. No, we’re talking about stickers and hooks. That’s what we’re talking about here. Magnets, yes.

Tonya Kubo (18:37)

Yeah.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and so Kathi, you are the person who taught me about seasonal stuff, right? Because I grew up in a studio apartment with my mom, I’m used to everything being in one space all at the same time. But the last episode, we were talking a little bit about seasonal stuff, and we’re talking about seasonal stuff now with the coat closet especially. How do you rotate things or do you?

Kathi Lipp (19:05)

Right.

Right. Right.

Yeah.

And, Tonya, let’s also say you grew up in central California, where the seasons are not quite as different as they are in Minnesota. Right, exactly. And broiling hot, yes. So, yes, but living up here, I have definitely learned about seasonality. And so we just have a little space in our garage for out of season. So the same bin is either

Tonya Kubo (19:28)

Cold, not cold. That’s all we got.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:49)

summer or winter right now because we’re recording this in February, it’s going out in March. We have all of our bug spray, our sunscreen, all of that kind of stuff out in our garage in a bin and inside we have our scarves, our gloves, our ice scraper, that kind of thing. So think of your coat closet or your launch pad, whatever it is.

Tonya Kubo (20:11)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:16)

as one of the most valuable pieces of real estate in your house. And when you redo this, keep everything out of there that you are not potentially going to use in the next week or so. So like right now, I don’t have my summer jacket hanging in there. Yeah, and so just what I could open up and say, you know what? I have a purpose for almost everything in here in the next couple of weeks.

Tonya Kubo (20:30)

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay, one more question, Kathi. What about the floor? Because I know some people have a strict, like, nothing goes on the floor rule in a closet. I know that you happen to be a space maximizer, so I have a feeling that you’ve got some solutions there.

Kathi Lipp (20:47)

Yes. Yeah.

Right.

Guess.

So here’s what I would say with that is that, you know, if I leave room for things like when my kids had backpacks for school, or if you have a folding grocery cart, if you live in a really urban area, you probably have a folding grocery cart that needs to go somewhere. Or do you have a bag of library books that need to be returned? You know, what?

Tonya Kubo (21:12)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:30)

whatever I grab on my way out, I also, if I was going to work every day, I might have my computer backpack there. Right now, those things are probably existing in your living space because on the floor of your coat closet is nonsense because that’s what was on the floor of my coat closet. So, you know,

Tonya Kubo (21:39)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:59)

So what I personally have on the floor of my coat closet, and my coat closet isn’t like a full length thing, it’s a half length thing, but I have cooler bags because when we go to town, I’m going to use a Costco cooler, at least in the winter, to put in my fresh meat and stuff. In the summer, we’re bringing our Yeti. Like that’s a different thing. But…

Tonya Kubo (22:19)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (22:23)

What do you actually use and need to be there? It should not be long-term storage for things you don’t touch all year. It’s things that you actually use. And if your kids could put their backpacks there, if you could put your work backpack there, I think that’s a great use of space.

Tonya Kubo (22:30)

Yeah.

Okay, and so now we get to the part where we’ve got to talk about the nemesis of all of our cluttery peeps. We’ve got the coat closet all beautifully decluttered, organized. How do we keep it from getting junked up again?

Kathi Lipp (22:45)

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Yeah, so when you bring new items in, remove something old. You know, the one in, one out. You know, when you think about coats, we probably don’t need 40, okay? Roger and I both need a nice coat. Think church or going out to dinner. An everyday winter coat, an everyday lighter coat, and a raincoat. If I get a new coat, I get rid of an old one.

Tonya Kubo (23:11)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (23:23)

Now, you may have more coat needs, that’s okay. But do you have 20 coat needs? And do they all need to be in that coat closet space? What if you picked the three or four coats that you use most of the time and use that? And then also, as you’re changing things over from winter to summer, just clear it out.

Tonya Kubo (23:24)

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (23:52)

Do I need to get rid of more coats? Do I need to get rid of some of these scarves? The other thing is, do you need seven scarves? Do you need 12 beanies? Do you need all of those mittens and gloves? Think about what do you actually use and what do you actually need? That’s the maintenance you need to do. And can I tell you, once you get this set up, your maintenance is gonna be so minimal. It’s gonna take five minutes.

Tonya Kubo (24:18)

Well, I was gonna say like maximum would be about 20 minutes a week, right? Like five minutes a day. If you can just do a quick swipe through, especially during the times of year where your coat closet is in more heavy use.

Kathi Lipp (24:22)

Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

Right, absolutely.

Tonya Kubo (24:33)

my goodness, Kathi, thank you so much. These have been great tips. I especially appreciate all the resources that we’re going to have available in the show notes, mainly because that’s how I access them after the episodes as well. Like I probably use our website more often than anybody else around here. Any final thoughts, encouragement, tips that you would give to our listeners?

Kathi Lipp (24:40)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

I love it.

How do you want to start your day? If your coat closet could be your launch pad to say, this is where my keys are. This is where, maybe you keep your lunch bag there after work or something like that. But how do I want to approach my day each day? Do I want to be able to find things in there easily? Do I want to be able to know where my coat is?

I think the reason that we don’t use our coat closets so much is because they’re filled with nonsense. At least that’s why I wasn’t using it. Instead of thinking, you know what, this is a tucked away space for things that I use every single day. Your space should be stuff that you use at least five out of seven days a week. So if you think about it that way, it’s really going to curate what belongs in that space and what doesn’t.

Tonya Kubo (25:28)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

beautiful tips. So we’re gonna curate what belongs in the space and what doesn’t. And we’re doing that by, just to summarize the steps, removing the unwanted coats, unwanted stuff that’s extra in that space. We’re gonna pull out the items that don’t belong, get matching hangers. You’ll thank us later, cause they’re beautiful. Hanging bins are ideal for those things that don’t hang. And then of course, command hooks, get that rechargeable light. I don’t know about you, but I’m running out to get one today.

Kathi Lipp (26:05)

Mm-hmm.

They’re so great.

Tonya Kubo (26:16)

and

rotate things seasonally. Not everything needs to live in the same space, same time all year long. Now, I believe we’re going to have a download available with all these tips in our show notes, right? You’re so excited. This was all Kathi’s idea, guys. I would never think of this, so just know that. Kathi thought of this because she knows you well. And we want to hear, so we want you to download that resource from our show notes, but then we want to hear from you over in the free Facebook group and you can find

Kathi Lipp (26:22)

Mm.

We are! Yes!

Tonya Kubo (26:44)

all the links, all the information in the show notes. Kathi, thank you for letting me interview you. This has been so much fun.

Kathi Lipp (26:51)

my goodness.

You know what? And I love doing this because it inspires me in these spaces and I need the inspiration just like everybody else.

Tonya Kubo (27:00)

Oh, I feel the same way. listeners, I just want to say thank you for hanging out with us for this 25 minutes or so. You have been listening to Clutterfree Academy. I’m Tonya Kubo with Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#682 – Back-to-School Prep: Tips for a Smooth Transition

Aug 12, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Parenting, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by Tonya Kubo to tackle the often chaotic back-to-school season. They explore practical strategies to help families organize their homes and lives for a smoother transition into the school year such as ...

#681 – Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

Aug 5, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and the creative genius, Tenille Register, as they explore the journey of embracing space over stuff to live a clutter-free life. In this episode, you'll discover Practical strategies for decluttering with purpose. How choosing space can lead to a...

#680 -From Overwhelmed to Organized: Transform Your Closet in 45 Minutes

Jul 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Is your closet causing you stress instead of bringing you joy? In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo share their proven system for creating a closet you'll actually love opening every day. What You'll Discover: How to set a clear vision...

#659 Simple Soups for a Meaningful Lent Season

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Mar 4, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Podcast, Spiritual Renewal | 0 comments

#659 Simple Soups for a Meaningful Lent Season

Listen Now

Are you looking for a simple way to bring more meaning to your Lenten season while also creating space for family connection? In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo share their love for soup and how it can become a meaningful Lenten practice for your family.

For many, Lent represents a time to simplify, focus on what matters most, and create space for spiritual growth. Kathi and Tonya explain how incorporating a weekly soup tradition can help achieve these goals while also solving the “what’s for dinner?” dilemma.

Listeners will discover:

Why soup is the perfect one-pot meal for busy families during Lent

How making soup can help reduce food waste and grocery bills

The spiritual connection between slowing down for soup and creating space for what matters

Six simple, delicious soup recipes that can be enjoyed throughout the Lenten season

Whether you’re new to Lenten traditions or looking to refresh your practice, this episode offers practical ideas to help you slow down, simplify, and savor both your meals and your time together as a family.

Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

As mentioned by Kathi: Broccoli Cheddar Soup

Ingredients:

4 tablespoons butter, divided

1/2 medium onion, chopped

3 cloves garlic, minced (from recipe 1)

1/4 cup flour

2 cups low sodium chicken stock

1 tsp kosher salt

1/2 tsp black pepper

1/4 tsp ground nutmeg, optional

3 cups broccoli florets, chopped into bite size pieces

1 large carrot, grated or julienned

1 stalk celery, thinly sliced

2 cups half & half or milk

2 1/2 cups grated sharp cheddar cheese

Instructions

Melt 1 tablespoon of butter in a large Dutch oven or pot over medium-high heat. Add the onion and cook for 3-4 minutes or until softened and lightly golden. Add the garlic and sauté for another minute.

Add the remaining 3 tablespoons of butter to the pot. Once melted, sprinkle the flour over the mixture and whisk for 1-2 minutes or until the flour begins to turn golden in color.

Gradually whisk in the half & half or milk, then pour in the chicken stock. Continue to whisk and cook, ensuring the mixture is well-blended.

Add the broccoli, carrots, and celery. Bring the mixture to a boil, then reduce the heat to medium-low and simmer for 20-25 minutes, or until the vegetables are tender.

Stir in the grated cheddar cheese, salt, pepper, and optional nutmeg. Continue to stir over low heat until the cheese has melted and the soup is well-mixed. Taste and adjust seasoning if needed before serving.

Soup Recipes from Sabbath Soup

1. Chili Recipe

Ingredients:

3/4 lb. ground beef
1 cup chopped onions
1 clove garlic, minced
1 (16 oz.) can stewed tomatoes
1 (16 oz.) can kidney beans, drained
1 (16 oz.) can tomato sauce
3 tsp. chili powder
1/2 tsp. basil
1 (6 oz.) can tomato paste
2 cups chicken broth

Instructions:

In a large saucepan, cook ground beef, onions, and garlic until the onions are translucent and the meat is brown. Drain.
Stir in un-drained tomatoes, drained kidney beans, tomato sauce, chili powder, basil, chicken broth and pepper.
Bring to a boil. Reduce heat and simmer, covered, for 30 minutes.

2. Cream of Mushroom Soup

Ingredients:

2 tablespoons butter
1/2 pound sliced fresh mushrooms (cremini recommended)
1/4 cup chopped onion
6 tablespoons all-purpose flour
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/8 teaspoon pepper
1-2 teaspoons Worcestershire sauce (to taste)
2 cans (14-1/2 ounces each) chicken broth
1 cup half-and-half cream

Directions:

In a large saucepan, heat butter over medium heat. Add mushrooms and onion; cook and stir until tender.
Stir in flour, salt, and pepper until blended; gradually whisk in broth. Bring to a boil, stirring constantly; cook and stir for 2 minutes or until thickened.
Reduce heat; stir in cream and Worcestershire sauce. Simmer, uncovered, for 15 minutes, stirring occasionally.
Taste and adjust seasoning with additional salt, pepper, or more Worcestershire sauce to taste.

3. Five Spoon Interpretive Vegetable Soup

This is a flexible recipe for using up vegetables in your crisper.

Non-negotiable ingredients:

Stock (chicken, vegetable, or beef), approximately 4-6 cups
Oil (olive oil and butter preferred)
Salt and pepper

Cooking process:

Cut up the aromatics — onions, garlic, and fresh herbs. If you have celery, add it at this point. Start sautéing in oil or butter until they get some color.
Add heartier vegetables first — carrots, potatoes, turnips, and other root vegetables. Give them a few minutes. This is also when to add canned beans if using.
Add other vegetables: squash, zucchini, tomatoes, green beans, asparagus, eggplant, and mushrooms. Let these get a little color.
Can add canned vegetables (tomatoes, corn, green beans) and leftover meat at this point. Add thin vegetables like spinach, cabbage here too.
Cover vegetables with broth.

Optional spice profiles:

Mexican: Cumin, chili powder, peppers, oregano, garlic
Italian: Basil, Italian herb blend, oregano
Indian: Tandoori spices, garam masala, curry, yogurt, coconut milk, tamarind, cardamom, cumin, coriander, cilantro, fennel, garlic, saffron

Taste and adjust as you go for the best flavor.

4. Minestrone Soup

Ingredients:

2 tablespoons olive oil
1 large onion, chopped
2 carrots, peeled and chopped
2 stalks celery, chopped
3 cloves garlic, minced
1 zucchini, chopped
1 medium potato, peeled and chopped
1 can (14.5 ounces) diced tomatoes
1 can (15 ounces) kidney beans, drained and rinsed
4 cups vegetable broth
2 teaspoons dried basil
1 teaspoon dried oregano
1 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon black pepper
1/2 cup small pasta (like ditalini or orzo)
2 cups chopped fresh spinach
1/4 cup freshly grated Parmesan cheese (optional)

Instructions:

In a large pot, heat the olive oil over medium heat. Add the onion, carrots, celery, and garlic. Cook until the vegetables are tender, about 5 minutes.
Add the zucchini, potato, diced tomatoes, kidney beans, vegetable broth, basil, oregano, salt, and black pepper. Stir until everything is well combined.
Bring the soup to a boil. Once boiling, reduce the heat to low, cover the pot, and let it simmer for about 15-20 minutes, or until the vegetables are soft.
Meanwhile, in a separate pot, cook the pasta according to the package instructions. Drain once cooked.
Add the cooked pasta and chopped spinach to the soup. Stir until the spinach has wilted and everything is well combined.
Serve hot, garnished with Parmesan cheese if desired.

5. White Bean Chicken Chili

Ingredients:

2 tablespoons vegetable oil
1 yellow onion, chopped
3 cloves garlic, minced
2 (14.5 oz.) cans chicken broth
4 cans Ro*Tel mild diced tomatoes and green chilies
1/2 teaspoon dried oregano
1/2 teaspoon ground coriander seed
1/4 teaspoon ground cumin
1 pound diced cooked chicken
1 (16 oz.) can cannellini beans
2 ears fresh corn cut from the cob, or 1 can drained corn, or 1½ cups frozen corn kernels
Salt and pepper, to taste

Directions:

In a soup pot, heat vegetable oil and sauté onion over medium heat until soft, about 5 to 7 minutes. Add in the garlic and continue to sauté for 1 additional minute.
Pour chicken broth into pan. Then add the tomatoes, oregano, coriander, and cumin. Bring to a boil and simmer for 10 minutes.
Add in chicken, beans, corn, and salt and pepper to taste. Simmer on low for 10 minutes.
Serve with tortilla chips, lime, and avocado slices.

6. Greek Lemon Soup

Ingredients:

4 cups chicken broth
1/2 cup uncooked orzo or rice
Salt and pepper to taste
3 eggs
Juice of 2 lemons (about 1/3 to 1/2 cup, depending on taste)
1 cup shredded cooked chicken (optional)
Fresh chopped parsley or dill for garnish

Instructions:

In a large pot, bring the chicken broth to a boil.
Add the orzo or rice, reduce heat and simmer until tender. For orzo, this will be about 10 minutes, for rice about 18 minutes.
Season with salt and pepper.
While the orzo or rice is cooking, in a separate bowl, whisk together the eggs until well beaten. Continue to whisk and gradually add in the lemon juice.
Once the orzo or rice is cooked, reduce the heat to low. Take a ladle full of hot broth and slowly add it to the egg-lemon mixture, whisking continuously. This process is called tempering and prevents the eggs from scrambling when added to the hot soup.
Continue to slowly add another 2-3 ladles of broth into the egg-lemon mixture, making sure to keep whisking.
Once the egg-lemon mixture is warmed, slowly pour it back into the soup pot, stirring the soup as you pour.
Add in the shredded chicken, if using.
Stir the soup over low heat for 2-3 minutes until heated through. Do not let it come to a boil.
Taste and adjust the seasoning if needed.
Ladle the soup into bowls, garnish with fresh chopped parsley or dill, and serve immediately.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:09)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small daily steps to help you live with less clutter and more life. And I am here with the goddess of all things clutter-free. And I mean that in a very non-religious way. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. You know what? Because you contain multitudes. You contain multitudes.

Tonya Kubo (00:28)

Hey, Kathi. I like that I get a new title every time. It’s fun.

Kathi Lipp (00:36)

and that reflects in our titling of you. We’re gonna talk about one of my favorite things. We’re gonna talk about a couple of my favorite things. We’re gonna talk about lent and we’re gonna talk about soup. Well, you know, we’ll talk about food, but we’re also gonna talk about soup. And so as you know, soup is one of my favorite things. It’s also one of your favorite things. We are both soup fanatics. Can I just tell you, we don’t have a recipe for broccoli cheddar soup in

Tonya Kubo (00:44)

Okay?

Okay.

Mm-hmm. yes.

Kathi Lipp (01:06)

in saba soup but i made a broccoli cheddar soup last night that almost made Roger weep it was

And I do have leftovers too bad you are several hours away from me. I will post the recipe I found it online. I tweaked it just ever so slightly but I think a part part of the reason that it was so good is I bought a bag of rolls from just a supermarket, but they were the Cheesecake Factory brown bread rolls

Tonya Kubo (01:44)

All of those are so good.

Kathi Lipp (01:46)

Right? And can I tell you, can I tell you what you have to look forward to in your older age? You start to become weird about things. Roger and I have become weird about butter.

Tonya Kubo (01:53)

Sure.

I love

how you said you start to as if I’m not already weird about things like butter.

Kathi Lipp (02:06)

Yes, this is true. As you know, I have a podcast I love called Wirecutter. And this is the New York Times and they do lots of blind taste tests and things like that. And they did the butter episode. And so this is what made us buy a butter bell. So we now have a butter bell and butter bells are a part of a life. We were already buying pretty much the right kind of unsalted butter, which is the Costco. It’s very highly rated.

Tonya Kubo (02:12)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:34)

lots of fat and everything. But now we are exploring all sorts of different kinds of salted butter. So the Costco New Zealand brand of salted butter is very highly rated. So we had the broccoli soup and we were a little under the weather. That’s why I made the soup. The brown bread and the New Zealand butter. And if I never have to have another meal again, it’s OK.

Tonya Kubo (03:04)

Yeah, yeah, I would die happy with that. That’s good.

Kathi Lipp (03:04)

Yeah,

it’s really good. I will put the link to that broccoli soup recipe in the notes because I think other people would enjoy that and it goes along with our theme here. Now you grew up Catholic, but you are in rubbing shoulders distance of a lot of Lutherans and I grew up Lutheran and one thing that we did growing up

Tonya Kubo (03:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:33)

as a church, not necessarily my family, but as a church, is soup and lent were closely tied. Now, how was it in the Catholic tradition?

Tonya Kubo (03:34)

Mm-hmm.

Well, so in the Catholic tradition, you know, there would be it was more at home because I grew up in a really small town. So we didn’t have a lot of like parish wide Lenten events, but we had a lot of soup on Fridays. It was that, you know, and fish because my family’s Portuguese. So we’re all about the fish.

Kathi Lipp (03:50)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah,

yeah. So, did you understand growing up with the comp? Because I never really understood the… I just thought people liked soup, but apparently… Did you understand it growing up?

Tonya Kubo (04:14)

Eh.

yeah, we had a wonderful nun who, you know, in second grade really explained Lent to us and Catechism. So, you know, understanding the idea of simplicity and kind of removing indulgence to really focus on the sacrifice that was, you know, Christ dying at the cross.

Kathi Lipp (04:24)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so we’re going to give you the second grade understanding. So Lent, as far as what my religious tradition is, is about what are you going to give up so you can decide what you’re going to fast so you can decide what to feast. And so the fast was, you know, I remember every year they wanted us to give up chocolate. And I just thought, you know, diving into the deep end of the pool, right?

Tonya Kubo (04:43)

You

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:07)

But a lot of things that we gave up were things like meat or sometimes it was dairy products. Like none of those are my favorites to give up. I’m not gonna lie. But as I’ve gotten older, I’ve just gone to eating more simply. like we may still have some chicken, but we’re not going to, and I’m not a hard and fast lenten person. I don’t feel like.

Tonya Kubo (05:19)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:36)

the more I give up the closer I am to God. But it’s for me it’s been planning simpler meals. So maybe instead of you know I love my chicken and wild rice cream of chicken and wild rice soup. That’s one of my favorites. But maybe during this time I’m going to you know our soup of the week is going to be a black bean soup. Or it’s going to be something simple like an onion soup or something. Something that doesn’t have

Tonya Kubo (05:56)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:05)

a lot of cost to it, doesn’t have a lot of ingredients, just trying to keep it really simple. And one of the things that we grew up being told is when we experience some physical hunger, can also, we can satisfy that with less so we can develop our spiritual hunger. And it’s just a time of 40 days to be able to concentrate.

Tonya Kubo (06:28)

Mm.

Kathi Lipp (06:34)

on the things that we would love for our lives to be more centered on. Is there something that you are trying to focus more on in 2025?

Tonya Kubo (06:45)

Well, I think for us, it’s now that, you know, I’ve got a high schooler, I’ve got an elementary schooler, the opportunities together around the table are so limited. And so I feel like, you know, I don’t want to spend an hour and a half prepping a meal and then not being able to get together around the table. Like I’d much rather something simple.

like soup and then we actually can just focus on our time together.

Kathi Lipp (07:16)

Yeah, and one of the reasons I love soup is because I can make a decent size batch of it and it’s prep once, eat twice, three times. know, for your family, it might be less because there are more people. But for Roger and I, that soup is not just going to be dinner that night. It’s going to be lunch another night and then maybe enough to take to my mom’s house or to feed our neighbor or something like that. And so it does

Tonya Kubo (07:28)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:47)

really help us be able to focus on some of those things. It’s a one-pot meal too. That’s why I love it. Less dishes.

Tonya Kubo (07:56)

Well, it’s a one pot

meal. I’ve said this before, right? It’s a great way to minimize food waste, take all the bits and stuff from the week and throw those into a pot with some broth and it almost always tastes delicious.

Kathi Lipp (08:04)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it’s so true. And I love that because, yeah, like you said, when the vegetables are getting a little squishier, when the onions are starting to sprout, don’t throw those out, turn them into soup. When the celery’s getting a little flabby, don’t throw it away, turn it into soup. So.

Tonya Kubo (08:25)

you

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:36)

Let me just give you my list of reasons. Well, we’re gonna take a quick break and we’re gonna come back and I’m gonna give you my list of reasons why I think you might want to consider a weekly soup tradition for lent. And I’m not the first to come up with this. We are not the first to talk about this. But if you can go into this season of simplicity with a focus already, and we’re also gonna share a couple of.

my favorite recipes and we’ll include those in the show notes so that you’re going to be able to Really take that soup to the next level and it’s not next level of making it fancy To really be able to focus on the things that you care about. Okay, we’re gonna take a quick break come right back

Okay, friends, we are back and we are talking lent and soup. Okay, so some reasons that we already love soup. One, it’s a one pot meal. Now I will say for that broccoli, there was a lot of chopping, there was a lot of shredding. So it was half a load of dishes, but it wasn’t cumbersome. And I was able to shred enough carrots, shred enough cheese that I was able to use that for other meals. Mostly,

Tonya Kubo (09:40)

Okay.

Kathi Lipp (09:53)

The the soups that we are focusing on during Lent are going to be meatless So I have some great meatless ideas of things that you are able to do I love soup because yes, you can make it once and you can eat it several times and that’s one of my As as the main cook in the house and you’re the main cook I you Brian cooks too, but you’re the main cook. Yeah

Tonya Kubo (10:02)

Hmm.

Yes.

Yeah

Kathi Lipp (10:22)

Any meal that will do double duty and will your family eat leftovers because lots of families won’t but mine definitely will Yeah, that’s a beautiful beautiful thing you’re using like Tonya said simple available ingredients and the thing that I love most is It gives us an opportunity to have some communal meals One of the fundraisers that we did up here in Omo Ranch

Tonya Kubo (10:30)

Yeah, mine will.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:51)

was a soup night where

everybody brought different soups. And I love what they did, Tonya. they took, everybody brought their own muffin tin and they put cups in the muffin tin and did different ladles of soup so you could try everybody’s soup. And then you had recipes you could take home. I love that idea. But I love also the spiritual side of this. Soup forces us to slow down.

Tonya Kubo (11:01)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:20)

You are not going to rush a pot of soup. And in fact, if you want to have soup on Sundays, which is a lot of people’s traditions, might I suggest you cook it on Friday so that you’re just reheating on Sunday and able to do that. Soup, you cannot rush eating soup. Soup is not something you can chow down on. It’s served hot. You have to slow down. You have to blow on it.

Tonya Kubo (11:44)

Mm-hmm

Kathi Lipp (11:48)

You have to be in the moment with it. And I think to me, soup is such a symbol of abundance that we have so much leftover from our week, that celery, that onion, that chicken, that rice, that we can create a whole nother meal out of it. Did you do the Stone Soup book when you were a kid?

Tonya Kubo (11:59)

Mm-hmm.

Yep, yep, and we made stone soup in school. It’s so yummy.

Kathi Lipp (12:18)

Yes,

I remember my contribution, because we also did stone salad, was mandarin oranges. that was super fun to be able to do that. If you’re not familiar with that, might I suggest, especially if you have younger kids, to do a reading of stone soup. And you can find that story online, but you could do that for part of your Lenten practice.

Tonya Kubo (12:24)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:45)

I just think soup helps us focus on gratitude. Look at all the abundance I have that I can make something out of this. And one of my favorite type of TikTokers, Instagrammers, YouTubers are the people who are using food banks to be able to create their meals, right? And

Tonya Kubo (12:49)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:12)

What I love about these there, and I’ll put a link into one of my favorite ones, is their creativity. Like they don’t go to the food bank saying I need this, this, this, this. They receive from the food bank and they create, and I think soup is one of the meals that you could absolutely do that with. And if you’re looking to have a little bit more focus, many of you have purchased Sabbath soup.

Tonya Kubo (13:24)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (13:39)

Go in there and look at the prayers. I will add a couple into our show notes here so that you can also have those. They were written by one of mine and Tonya’s friends, Bethany Howard. She did a beautiful job with a lot of these prayers. But Tonya, I wanna talk about what are some of your favorite soup memories. We may not have the recipes here, but what are some of the soups that you grew up on for Lent? And then I’m also going to suggest

Tonya Kubo (14:02)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (14:09)

Some soup recipes and we’re going to give you links to those in the show notes

Tonya Kubo (14:14)

Yeah, so in my family during Lent, the two main soups would be a watercress soup and watercress soup. Yeah, well, and so part of why the watercress soup is such a memory is we would have to go harvest our own watercress because at that time you couldn’t buy it at the store. You can get it at stores now.

Kathi Lipp (14:21)

A watercress soup, I have never heard of that. So tell me more about that.

my goodness.

Tonya Kubo (14:39)

But

Kathi Lipp (14:39)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (14:40)

so we would have to, I don’t know where it was, but we would go to this place. My grandfather would park on the side of the road and my mom and I would walk and it felt like forever. But like try to jump over rattlesnake holes and all of these things. Cause it grows as it sounds by water. And then so having to pick it up, we had to avoid the stinging nettle because stinging nettle also grew near it. So we would harvest the watercress and we would make watercress soup. And it’s usually a mix of

Kathi Lipp (14:57)

Yes?

Uh-oh.

Tonya Kubo (15:08)

It’s watercress, sometimes onion, potatoes, and then broth, but it’s very brothy. It’s not like a thick potato soup. And then you just sip it, or if you wanna use a spoon. My grandfather liked everything cut bigger. He liked it to be chunkier. I actually blend it all together, and I like it to be smooth.

Kathi Lipp (15:13)

Okay. Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm. Okay.

So you’re using the present tense. Do you still make it? okay. I’m gonna have to try some.

Tonya Kubo (15:34)

yeah, I love it. If I can see the grocery

store, I’m not going and harvesting my own too old for that. But if I can find it in the grocery store, cause it just takes three bunches and it’s a bitter green, but with

Kathi Lipp (15:39)

No, no, yeah.

So just gonna say,

tell me what watercress is because I’ve heard of watercress sandwiches, but I’ve always thought of those as like you cut the crusts off because they’re fancy.

Tonya Kubo (15:56)

Yeah, no, it’s a little bit bitter, but it’s so good with, I like mine. Like I said, potato, onion, good chicken broth is what I use. And then I like it with a lot of black pepper. So delicious. Yeah, it makes me very happy. I’m like, I’m going to go make that.

Kathi Lipp (16:10)

okay. you know what I got?

You know what I got for Christmas this year that I am absolutely loving and is upping our pepper consumption is a battery operated pepper grinder.

Tonya Kubo (16:19)

Hmm.

Ugh.

One day, one day. So it’s that soup and then kale soup. I love kale soup.

Kathi Lipp (16:28)

Yes. Yes.

Okay, kale

soup I have had before and it was delicious. okay, do you have recipes you could share with us? Okay.

Tonya Kubo (16:40)

I do. Yeah. have a great,

it’s funny as my watercress, my watercress soup recipe was like from Women’s World Magazine. Victoria Beckham, I think is who it was, but it was like, she swore by like watercress soup to get ready for award shows. And I’m just like, well, I just like to eat watercress soup. So I use that recipe still. And then I’ve got some great kale recipes.

Kathi Lipp (16:59)

interesting, okay.

Yeah, that just sounds good.

Okay, I can’t wait. Yeah, the kale soup I have is with bacon. So maybe that’s not the same kind of emphasis. Okay, so I’m going to give you guys a couple of my recipes. So I think chili is a great lenten soup because you can do it with beans, you don’t have to do it with any kind of meat or you can use up leftover meat. I’ve even done chili with ham, which sounds different.

Tonya Kubo (17:23)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:38)

But it’s really good, it’s a lot of, you’re using a lot of onions and beans and tomatoes, things that you have cans of. You can almost do the entire soup out of cans and there’s nothing fancy that anything has to go with that. I will say the cream of mushroom soup that I made last week, maybe my favorite soup I’ve had in the past six months. It was,

Tonya Kubo (17:52)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:08)

I don’t know that broccoli was pretty good too, but the cream of mushroom soup was a killer. has a lot, I like soups with a lot of onion in them. So that makes me super, super happy. And this is, this to me is the ultimate lenten soup. I call it the five spoon interpretive vegetable soup. So it’s basically cleaning out your crisper drawer and

Tonya Kubo (18:16)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (18:35)

You know, there’s kind of an order that things go into it with. You you start with the potatoes because you want to get those softer and you end up with things like kale or, you know, spinach because that’s the thing that needs the least amount of cooking. And then you keep tasting it to say, does it need more salt? Does it need more pepper? Could it use more garlic? That kind of thing. But that’s one of my favorites. There’s gosh, there are so many.

Tonya Kubo (18:44)

Mm-hmm.

Do you want to hear

Brian’s favorite from Sabbath Soup? The minestrone.

Kathi Lipp (19:06)

Yes, yes I

was just gonna talk about the minestrone. he likes it. I’m so glad Yeah, you guys it’s so simple, but it’s so good and

Tonya Kubo (19:17)

He loves minestrone

soup in general, but yeah, he was, that’s his favorite out of the whole cookbook.

Kathi Lipp (19:23)

my goodness, I’m so glad. I love that people have favorites. Okay, I’m going to give you one more because I want to make sure that we have six soups here so we can have it for the six weeks. I’m trying to think of like what would, you know, I’m trying to think of our meatless one. You could do the white bean. Now it’s chicken chili, but you don’t have to have the chicken in it. If you want to go meatless, the white bean chili.

Tonya Kubo (19:31)

Hmm

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:48)

Super simple super easy. You’ve got some sauteed onions in there that they’re just gonna put it over the top It’s gonna make you super happy. You could also do the lasagna soup without any Meat with it and yeah, let’s be honest sausage makes soup taste better. I’m not gonna lie, but

Tonya Kubo (20:08)

Yeah,

my traditional kale soup recipe uses sausage because it’s delicious. What about the lemon soup in there, the Greek lemon soup?

Kathi Lipp (20:12)

Yes. Okay.

Yeah, the Greek

lemon soup. now that sometimes you can have that with chicken or without, but that’s my son’s favorite soup. And so, yeah, and I, so everything I’m talking about, I suggest a lot of pepper with, I’m not gonna lie. I like a peppery oniony soup. It’s gonna make it all taste better. So we’re not saying you go without taste, but maybe just approach the meal differently. What do I already have?

Tonya Kubo (20:25)

So good

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:46)

What can I give flavor with spices instead of meat or high, you know, expensive ingredients? What can I do with things that I already have on hand to keep it simple? What does not require a lot of fussy cooking?

Tonya Kubo (20:52)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:08)

Like,

you I made that broccoli soup. It probably took me 25 minutes to put together, but none of it was fussy. It was a little bit more labor intensive because I used fresh broccoli, because I used a hunk of cheese instead of pre-grated cheese. But I also think that those two decisions gave it more flavor. So, you know, I’m willing to make those trade-offs because

Tonya Kubo (21:25)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:36)

the better the ingredients, the better the soup. But you don’t have to use expensive ingredients, just the best ingredients you have available. So we’re gonna put those six recipes in the show notes so that you don’t have to buy Sabbath soup in order to do all this. But guys, I’m just gonna say, what can you do to make your life simpler during Lent so that you can focus on the things that you

Tonya Kubo (21:45)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (22:06)

Focus on the attributes of God. Focus on the things that God wants for you during Lent to live a simpler life, to live a plainer life, but one that is not boring. It’s not flavorless, but you’re just creating space. And that’s what I want for you. And if you’re like, I don’t even know when Lent is, Kathi. I don’t even know what we’re talking about here. So it’s March 5th through April 17th.

Tonya Kubo (22:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (22:35)

So it’s coming early this year. Like it’s right around the corner, but you guys were gonna do this together. I’ll be posting some of those recipes. Tonya, thanks for talking about this with me. food is one of our favorites, not gonna lie. And friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter-free life you’ve always wanted to live.

Tonya Kubo (22:37)

Mm-hmm.

Thanks for having me. I love to talk about food anytime.

#682 – Back-to-School Prep: Tips for a Smooth Transition

Aug 12, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Parenting, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by Tonya Kubo to tackle the often chaotic back-to-school season. They explore practical strategies to help families organize their homes and lives for a smoother transition into the school year such as ...

#681 – Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

Aug 5, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and the creative genius, Tenille Register, as they explore the journey of embracing space over stuff to live a clutter-free life. In this episode, you'll discover Practical strategies for decluttering with purpose. How choosing space can lead to a...

#680 -From Overwhelmed to Organized: Transform Your Closet in 45 Minutes

Jul 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Is your closet causing you stress instead of bringing you joy? In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo share their proven system for creating a closet you'll actually love opening every day. What You'll Discover: How to set a clear vision...

#658 The All or Nothing Trap: Why Good Enough is Good Enough

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Feb 25, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Podcast, Spiritual Renewal | 0 comments

#658 The All or Nothing Trap: Why Good Enough is Good Enough

Listen Now

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, host Kathi Lipp is joined by her clutter buddy, Tonya Kubo, to tackle the all-too-common mindset of “if you can’t do it right, don’t do it at all”. Together, they explore how this thinking impacts our homes and hearts, and share practical tips on shifting to a more grace-filled, progress-focused approach. Listeners will learn about the power of small steps in creating a tidier home and how to redefine the standards of a clutter-free living space. Tune in to hear a bit about Kathi’s strategy for managing clutter and hear about the upcoming Clutter Free Bible Study which offers insights on decluttering beyond just your physical space.

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:11)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my friend, my clutter buddy. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (00:26)

Hey Kathi!

Kathi Lipp (00:28)

So I want to talk about something that I know that has been brought up a lot recently, especially in our paid group, Clutterfree for Life. And I know it’s something I’ve struggled with. You’ve talked about struggling with it. is. It makes me angry almost. If it’s the if you can’t do something right, don’t do something at all. If you, you know, OK.

Tonya Kubo (00:47)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (00:56)

I will say, you know, we say around here every time, you can have it half donkeyed or you can do it full donkeyed. I’m trying to say it because I know we have a lot of people listening with little ears on. you know, around here, we’re full donkey people. so, but I will say, okay, can I call out a relative here just for a second?

Tonya Kubo (01:13)

Thank you.

Kathi Lipp (01:24)

So I was helping somebody at their house recently and I had spent, I don’t know, two hours working on cleaning and vacuuming and doing all the things, right? And then I get done and the sentence was, thank you, but there are still streaks on the window.

Tonya Kubo (01:36)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:52)

And like, okay. And my goodness, it was so defeating. I’m not going to lie. I’m still a little bitter about it. I am recovering though. And you know, it’s, it, it brings up so much from my childhood, not necessarily from my parents, but from teachers, from neighbors who were like, well, if you can’t do it right, why do it at all? And I have come to learn.

Tonya Kubo (01:57)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:22)

that that was probably the motto in every house that a cluttery person has ever grown up in. How did this manifest for you as you were a child going into adulthood? Is that something that you heard and who did you hear from?

Tonya Kubo (02:42)

No, so like never really heard those words specifically at home. I mean, I think very much if you’re a child of the eighties, that’s just what you were taught, right? Child of the seventies, child of the eighties. It’s like, you can’t do something right. Don’t do something at all. I know people who grew up in like evangelical circles. There was a lot of like, you’re supposed to do everything like you’re doing it for Jesus. Would you do it like that for Jesus? No. Or if you didn’t like that for Jesus, like really?

Kathi Lipp (02:46)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Right, yes.

Tonya Kubo (03:09)

What do you think? That’s disrespectful to Jesus. But at home, again, I grew up with a hoarder who had a very interesting perspective on how other people should live. So I remember having to clean the house, like I’d be home alone, I’m supposed to clean the whole house, cleaning the whole house, and then being told that nothing I did counted because I had one fork in the sink.

Kathi Lipp (03:12)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Mmm. Ugh.

Tonya Kubo (03:38)

Right? It’s like the one fork in the sink negated the seven hours I had spent as, you know, a 12 year old cleaning an entire house on my own. And it was just always like, and then I remember, you know, going through high school, like, why should I do anything?

Kathi Lipp (03:53)

Absolutely.

Tonya Kubo (03:55)

Like why do anything

if my best will never be good enough? And I remember my cousin who I’m very close with and we grew up, she would say, okay, here’s the deal, Tonya. We’re just gonna put the wind fork in the sink and we’re just gonna leave it there. And we will know between the two of us that when she comes home, she’s gonna complain about the fork in the sink, but see, we put it there on purpose. But it never mattered to me.

Kathi Lipp (04:14)

Mmm. That’s.

That’s so hard as a kid. It really is. So the thing I want to think about here is one, how do we not do that to people we are raising? We still want, I don’t know, you know, I’ve grown up my whole life thinking we want excellence, but excellence, you know, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (04:21)

Mm-hmm.

Well, this all goes back to like my mantra,

which I’ve said here on the podcast several times, which is if I don’t have to do it, I do not judge how it gets done. Because you know what the thing is, like, you know, my mom grew up in a household where there was one way that you folded things and that was the right way and everything else was wrong. So my mom grew up in an environment where if you didn’t fold a towel where it was perfect right angles and it had to be folded in thirds,

Kathi Lipp (04:47)

It’s so true, right?

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (05:08)

The laundry basket got dumped out and you had to refold the entire load, not just the towels that were folded incorrectly, the entire load over and over and over again until every single towel was folded perfectly. So can I blame her for how she raised me? No, I can’t.

Kathi Lipp (05:16)

Ugh.

I just gonna say,

we need to give a little bit of a break to our parents who hopefully did better than their parents and hopefully we are doing better than them and our kids will do better than us. May it be so.

Tonya Kubo (05:29)

Right.

Exactly!

Mm-hmm. And I remember,

yes, and I remember one time was when Brian and I were married and I was folding towels and my mom was over and she starts like in on me, right? About like, well, if your grandmother was alive, I’m like, well, number one, she’s not. And number two, why would you, I would tell her the same thing I’m gonna tell you. Why do you care you’re not folding my towels? They’re not going in your cabinet. It doesn’t matter. But I have carried that through, which means that Lily lives out of laundry baskets. I hate it with every fiber of my being, but you know what?

Kathi Lipp (05:48)

Right?

Right, it’s not… Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:04)

She’s not asking me to find her clothes in the morning to get ready. It doesn’t affect me. So I just move on.

Kathi Lipp (06:07)

Right.

Yes, it’s so true. And you know, I’ve had to fold my towels two different ways in my adulthood because in one cabinet they fit one way and in another cabinet they fit a different way. And now I live in a space where it doesn’t matter. So anybody can fold the towels. It’s okay. If you want to come fold towels at my house, I will give you the address that Google will send you to here. Yeah. So.

Tonya Kubo (06:22)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, exactly. You are happy to full-tell your way at my house,

I’ll let you.

Kathi Lipp (06:40)

Exactly.

So here’s something that’s so interesting though. Like what I finally had to figure out is if I wanted to live in a house that met my own very mediocre standards, I couldn’t wait till I had time so I could do everything at once. Nothing in my house will all be the right right quote unquote way at the same time.

Tonya Kubo (06:54)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:10)

Because even if I have people coming over, that probably means that my bedroom is the receiving end of some nonsense. I’m just gonna make do. And so some of the things I’ve learned and some of the things that have really helped me in getting the kind of house that I want are doing things in tiny sections. So.

Tonya Kubo (07:19)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:35)

Used to wait until I could wipe the whole counter down so I’d spray the whole counter and I’d wait five minutes and then I’d wipe it all down and How often do I have time for that? Not never but now I’ll just do hey I can do the counter above the sink. So I’m gonna squirt that down I’m gonna let wait for a couple of minutes and then I’m gonna wipe all that down and Does that mean it’s how I want it to be? No, but does that mean I am closer to how I want it to be?

Tonya Kubo (07:51)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:03)

And when I come to prepare lunch later on there’s going to be a clean place for me to be able to do it huzzah You know, i’ve talked about this plenty of times on the On the podcast that my oatmeal now cooks for two minutes and 33 seconds I don’t know why the time has changed it has changed that is plenty of time for me to get at least half the dishes unloaded And that makes me so happy and I know you you’ve

Tonya Kubo (08:09)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:32)

mentioned that you thought it took like 15 minutes 20 minutes to unload a dishwasher and When you heard me talking about oatmeal, you’re like, I can get that done in about four or five minutes. Yeah, you actually can Unless you have a much bigger dishwasher than I do but doing things in sections and by the way People will tell me all the time. Well, then how does the next person know whether those are clean or dirty? I’m like, well I tell them or they ask

Tonya Kubo (08:43)

Yup.

Kathi Lipp (09:01)

Like we have communication in our house, so it’s okay. And you know, he knows I am a serial half dishwasher emptier and it’s okay. That’s totally fine. But I have struck upon this, this idea for me, and this might be helpful to somebody else out there that I am working on my house two by two by one at a time. And what I mean by that is the space

Tonya Kubo (09:02)

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:30)

is not going to be bigger than two feet by two feet and it’s not going to be deeper than one foot. And that’s a drawer or half of a drawer or half of the kitchen table or half of the living room table or half of a shelf in the garage. And because my brain tells me I’m going to wait until I have three hours on Saturday to clean out the garage.

Tonya Kubo (09:36)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:59)

There is no three hours in my entire life where I want to spend it cleaning out the garage. But 30 minutes at a time, 20 minutes at a time, most of the time it’s just 15 minutes at a time, these little things. Now, there are things that you should be excellent at. If you are giving your child medication, be the best medication giver you can be. Do everything you can to make sure that that goes well.

Tonya Kubo (10:23)

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (10:27)

When it comes to wiping down your counter, I’m okay if you get a D plus at that. And I’m okay if I get a D plus at that as well. And so, you know, I feel like one of the things that we have to do is retrain our brains against this all or nothing thinking. Tonya, we’re gonna take a little break and we’re gonna talk about an opportunity that’s coming up. And this is gonna be an opportunity for you to get a D plus in decluttering.

Tonya Kubo (10:28)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:58)

We’re going to practice getting rid of all or nothing thinking. We’re going to take a break and we’ll be right back.

Okay, we are back and we are going to practice our eliminating our all or nothing thinking. And if you listened to the podcast last week, you heard us talking about the clutter free Bible study, what Jesus has to say about your stuff. And lots of times people want to do the Bible study, but they’re like, I don’t have the time. I, I, you know, I don’t want to show up less than for the Bible study.

Tonya Kubo (11:33)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:34)

I don’t know that I have time to do the homework. so Tonya you have three levels of Bible study participate, which I love by the way, because there I think I told you I did Beth Moore’s Breaking Free probably

Tonya Kubo (11:41)

I do?

yes, you and half the nation. Including me.

Kathi Lipp (11:54)

Right, like I probably did it, yeah, 10 times. I still have

the workbook because I’ve gone back and looked at it. But there were times where I was leading the study and there were times where I was just barely making it there in my pajama bottoms. And you know what the beautiful thing was? The pajama bottoms times, I had a leader who every time just said, I’m so happy to see your face.

Tonya Kubo (12:06)

you

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:23)

You know, it wasn’t I could never do bsf. I know that people love bsf and they are transformed people but the the kind of study where if you don’t do your homework basically I I think the premise is you’re not allowed to talk unless you’ve done all your homework and You know, hey that works for a lot of people. That is not my jam

Tonya Kubo (12:27)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:47)

And so this is leaning more towards my benevolent leader in Beth Moore’s Breaking Free, how Tonya runs the Bible study. So can you tell us a little bit about the Bible study and your three ways that you can participate?

Tonya Kubo (13:00)

Mm-hmm.

So the Clutter Free Bible study is It’s a series of videos. So you watch a video We have a downloadable workbook that you can print or you can fill it online. Whatever makes you happy So you watch a video you have your workbook reflection and then once a week we gather together in the Facebook group we do a Facebook live and We have our discussion so and that

for some of you, you’re a Beth Moore study person, that’s easy peasy, right? And if you’re not a Beth Moore study person, that already feels like a lot. So the small, medium, and large tiers that I have come up with is the small version is you know what, this is important, and yet I do not have time for one more thing in my life. So what I will do is I will mark the calendar for the weekly live discussions and I will show up to those.

Kathi Lipp (13:32)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (13:56)

I’m

just gonna show up, I’m gonna listen. you know, if Tonya asks a question that I feel like I can respond to, sure, I’ll answer that question, that’s fine. But I’m just gonna show up and I’m just gonna pay attention to the conversation. Medium is I own the study, so I either have bought it fresh or I bought it years ago and I’m pulling it out. I’m watching the e-course, so I’m watching the videos, I’m looking at the workbook, fill out the questions, don’t fill out the questions, totally up to you, right? But that is medium.

I’m watching the videos, I’m at least reading through the workbook questions, and maybe even digging out my Bible app to look at what scripture says to make sure that what Kathi says the scripture says is actually what my Bible says the scripture says. That’s very important to some people, by the way. And then large is I’m gonna do all of that, right? So I’m gonna watch the videos, work on the workbook, I’m gonna participate in the live discussion, and I’m gonna pull out my…

Kathi Lipp (14:27)

Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

Okay.

Tonya Kubo (14:54)

handy-dandy copy of Clutter Free and I’m gonna follow the reading plan, right? Because the Clutter Free book is a separate purchase from the Bible study, but some people love to go through the book in conjunction with the Bible study and that is going all out. That is whole donkey, as you like to describe it. That is going whole donkey and I think every year maybe about

Kathi Lipp (15:12)

Right.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (15:21)

15 % of our study participants do the whole thing. A lot of people will start in one level and life happens as we get closer to Easter and they drop down a level. But by being able to pick whether you’re going small, medium, and large, it completely eliminates the pass or fail that most of us tend to put ourselves under.

Kathi Lipp (15:29)

Right.

Yes.

You know, I think about it, it’s kind of like exercise for me because I get down on myself so much for missing exercise. But, know, really, if I’m showing up once a week, that’s more than I was showing up. That was once a week more than I was showing up a year ago. And we’re looking for trajectory, not perfection. And yeah, we want. And so if you pick up a couple of things during this Bible study,

Tonya Kubo (16:02)

Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Kathi Lipp (16:13)

That could change your life. It absolutely could. Okay, tell us a little bit about the weekly schedule just so people know what they’re getting into.

Tonya Kubo (16:14)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

so we’re gonna kick off February 28th. And that’s where I just, I’ll explain the small medium and large plan. I will answer any questions, but I’ll kind of talk about how we approach it, how it’s very easy and gentle. And that’s also where I explain to people, because a lot of people will enter into the Bible study assuming that their house is gonna be spick and span spotless by the end of it. I explained that the Bible study is not the kind of,

decluttering process where you’re gonna see it play out in your house. It’s really about decluttering your heart and your emotions around stuff. Then we, it’s a six week discussion. So that goes from March 7th to April 11th. So you watch the videos, you do the workbook, then we come together and discuss like I mentioned. And then on Good Friday, which is April 18th, we will get together for a celebration.

in advance of Easter and then on April 20th you get to have Easter with your family but you’re all done with the Bible study before Easter begins which I think is really important because we believe in holidays and rest over here in Clutter Free Academy and even when we lead a Bible study we want to build in periods of rest.

Kathi Lipp (17:24)

Guess.

Yes.

Absolutely. We love some good rest around here because we talked about guilt in our last podcast and the guilt keeps us from resting and until we have no choice but to rest. And that’s not how I want you to earn your rest friends. It’s really not. Okay. So what are people going to learn in this Bible study?

Tonya Kubo (17:46)

Mm-hmm.

No.

Yeah, so like I said, it’s not the kind of Bible study where you’re gonna clear out spaces in your home, but it digs deep into the heart of why you keep things, what the Bible says it means to be a good steward. Because again, so often in Clutter Free Academy, we assume being a good steward means we keep everything we’ve ever bought that could potentially be useful to somebody somewhere, even if not this century. And then we also kind of,

Kathi Lipp (18:23)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (18:27)

address the perspective of building new habits. Like one exercise that is a favorite that is part of the Bible study is going to a store like Target or Walmart, whatever you have in your area, and going into the store, walking around the store, and walking out without buying a single thing. Not because it makes you holier than anybody else to do that, but to prove to yourself that walking into a store does not obligate you to buy stuff.

Kathi Lipp (18:54)

Yes, it’s so true, right?

Tonya Kubo (18:57)

And

people really believe that they can’t do it. And then they’re so proud of themselves when they can. you know, every year, people have some amazing experiences and their perspective shifts in incredible ways. And we have people who’ve been doing this every year with us since 2016. Grace Church, who’s been on the podcast before, she is the community manager over in our paid membership program, Clutter Free for Life. She joined.

Kathi Lipp (19:00)

Yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (19:25)

Like that’s how I first met her was when she did the initial Bible study and it was about three years in. So her third or fourth round with the Bible study where her big aha was that clutter was a boundary issue and that she had come so far in her life in asserting and maintaining strong healthy boundaries with people but she had no boundaries when it came to stuff.

Kathi Lipp (19:39)

Mmm.

Interesting.

Tonya Kubo (19:53)

And so, and she wrote this beautiful thing, which I need to pull out of the archives because we have it still, about how once she was able to make that association, the clutter shows that I don’t have boundaries around stuff. She was able to draw a really strong boundary about what could come into the house. And by having a strong boundary of what it was allowed in, that automatically reduced the amount of time and energy she had to spend in decluttering.

Because if she could stop it at the front door, she never had to worry about when to get rid of it.

Kathi Lipp (20:27)

Yeah. it’s so interesting. Isn’t it interesting the folklore we have built up around our stuff and about keeping stuff. And I’m going to hurt Amazon’s feelings if I return this item. And, you know, it’s just all these things. It was very interesting to me, you know, because I’m I’m an over-politer and I don’t want to bother the person who’s waiting on us on the table and stuff like that.

Tonya Kubo (20:34)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:55)

And I just saw a TikTok recently where somebody said, you’ve got a normal request and you ask politely, you are doing better than 98 % of the people who come in. And it’s like, so me asking for more ranch or whatever it is, right? You’re not going to go back into the back kitchen and say, can you believe this woman? Can you?

Tonya Kubo (21:05)

Mm-hmm.

Yup.

Right.

Right?

Kathi Lipp (21:23)

And me returning things to an online retailer, that’s part of doing business. I am not offending somebody by doing that. But there is such folklore. If I go into a store, I need to buy something. Or if I use the bathroom, I need to buy something. You know what? I think I’ve paid for my bathroom trip about 1,000 times over. I think we’re good.

Tonya Kubo (21:30)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (21:50)

I’m you know, you said you’re not going to get rid of clutter, but we can see some of our members creating new habits. And so so tell me a little bit about that. What have you seen in the past in the Bible study?

Tonya Kubo (22:00)

yeah!

Yeah, so new habits. So a lot of the habits that our members have created, so like, you know, using Grace as an example is stopping clutter at the front door, whatever that looks like. So that could be, you know, at work, somebody says, hey, do you want to take this? No, I’m good. Right? Because if I don’t take it here, right, because once it goes into my car, now it’s my job to figure out what to do with it.

Kathi Lipp (22:17)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm, right.

Yeah,

it’s so true.

Tonya Kubo (22:29)

You know,

for me, it was during the first Bible study that I started going through my mail over the recycling bin rather than bringing it into the house. So the only stuff that comes into the house is stuff I actually need or have to take action on. But a lot of folks have experienced complete shifts in their habits around shopping. So for some people, they broke the habit and Lent is such a great time for breaking habits that don’t actually benefit you.

Kathi Lipp (22:37)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:57)

They broke their habit of automatically stopping at the grocery store or stopping at any store after work or shopping out of boredom. A lot of people recognize that they go, that Target, Walmart, those kind of super stores are an emotional coping mechanism. It’s where they go when they’re lonely. It’s where they go when they’re bored and they just kind of walk around the store and they tell themselves, well, it’s just free, right? Like it would cost me money to go to the movies. It would cost me money to take a friend out to lunch.

Kathi Lipp (23:24)

Hmm.

Tonya Kubo (23:26)

I go to Target and it’s free, but then they wouldn’t think about all the things that they would buy as part of their Target habit. We talk a lot about the dollar spot, right? Or the bargain bins at stores. well, it’s totally fine that I go to Target every single week. I know I’m picking on Target, but that’s just because that’s what we have where I live. But it’s fine that I go there because I only get stuff that’s at the dollar spot. Right, but five things from the dollar spot.

Kathi Lipp (23:31)

Right.

Yeah.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (23:53)

only cost you five dollars, but it takes up the space of five things. And it’s five things that at some point you’re going to have to get rid of. And did you need it to begin with?

Kathi Lipp (24:03)

And Tonya, the other thing I’m gonna say is stores are not dumb. They know that your house feels chaotic and their house feels bright and organized and it makes sense. And those mannequins give you ideas of how you could use those things. Those displays give you…

Tonya Kubo (24:10)

Mm-mm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (24:31)

And

if I just had this thing, then my life, I know nobody is saying this to themselves, but your amygdala is saying this to yourself. If only I had those plates, then the rest of my kitchen would come together. If only I had that mail organizer, I would never have clutter again. And so the displays, the advertisements are promising a life that feels like an escape from your house.

Tonya Kubo (24:46)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (25:01)

And what we want your house to be is to be that sanctuary that doesn’t mean you feel like you have to leave it all the time to get that peace. That’s what we want for you. Okay, guys, we are going to have all the information on how to join the Bible study in the show notes, all the links. Mark your calendars for February 28th for the kickoff.

Tonya Kubo (25:09)

Exactly.

Kathi Lipp (25:27)

You can invite some friends if you know that they also struggle with some of these things. It is so much more fun to do it together. If you don’t have a friend that you can invite, then you’re gonna make friends. That’s what we want you to do. We’re gonna make friends who understand your cluttering language. Tonya, this has been great. Thanks so much for being with us today and for leading this. I know how passionate you are about.

Tonya Kubo (25:50)

Yes, and I hope that everybody listening will join us because it really is a good time. It really is.

Kathi Lipp (25:55)

Yeah, it really is. And friends, you have been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#682 – Back-to-School Prep: Tips for a Smooth Transition

Aug 12, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Parenting, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by Tonya Kubo to tackle the often chaotic back-to-school season. They explore practical strategies to help families organize their homes and lives for a smoother transition into the school year such as ...

#681 – Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

Aug 5, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and the creative genius, Tenille Register, as they explore the journey of embracing space over stuff to live a clutter-free life. In this episode, you'll discover Practical strategies for decluttering with purpose. How choosing space can lead to a...

#680 -From Overwhelmed to Organized: Transform Your Closet in 45 Minutes

Jul 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Is your closet causing you stress instead of bringing you joy? In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo share their proven system for creating a closet you'll actually love opening every day. What You'll Discover: How to set a clear vision...

#657 Rediscover Peace: The Psychological Benefits of Decluttering

by Roger Lipp | Feb 18, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Podcast, Spiritual Renewal | 0 comments

#657 Rediscover Peace: The Psychological Benefits of Decluttering

Listen Now

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, host Kathi Lipp is joined by Tonya Kubo to delve into the hidden costs of clutter and how it impacts our lives beyond the physical. They explore the emotional, spiritual, and financial toll that clutter can take and discuss practical steps to reclaim space and peace of mind. Tonya shares her personal journey from cluttered chaos to organized serenity, offering inspiration and insights for listeners. They also introduce the Clutter Free Bible study—an online program designed to help you tackle the root causes of clutter through a spiritual lens. Tune in to learn how decluttering can lead to emotional freedom and spiritual renewal just in time for Lent.

Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

The Clutter Free Bible Study

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A professional community strategist, she believes everyone deserves to have a place online where they feel like they belong. Raised by a hoarder, Tonya knows firsthand the pain and isolation that comes from living in conditions others don’t understand. She wants better for her family and her cluttery peeps, which is why she is passionate about the compassionate slow-and-steady approach that makes Clutter Free unique. She lives in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit tonyakubo.com to find out more about her community work, or email her at tonya@kathilipp.org to discuss the Clutter Free Academy podcast and programs.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:10)
Hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps every day to live with less clutter But more life and I am back here with the reigning queen of all things clutter. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey Tonya You know what we are diving into a season in Clutter Free Academy that really is all about Tonya and her people

Tonya Kubo (00:25)
Hey, Kathi

haha

Kathi Lipp (00:37)
And it’s it because we are coming up on link now. I’m doing some linty things Which sounds like I need to get one of those picker uppers to get stuff off my clothes. You’re right exactly Because I’m gonna be talking a lot about soup around lent because soup and lent go together really really really well Especially with the weather we’re having here in California today is is it crazy where you are to yes?

Tonya Kubo (00:43)
You are?

I was gonna say you need a roller. We need a roller.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

…Currential

Downpour.

Kathi Lipp (01:05)
Okay, totally off topic. Can I tell you how excited Roger is because we bought these giant backup batteries that for when you know, the power goes out, he wanted his computer and my computer to keep going. Sadly, the weather has been beautiful here. We have barely had a dusting of snow.

Tonya Kubo (01:14)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

And Roger did not get to play with his new toys.

Kathi Lipp (01:30)
Exactly until yesterday and then yesterday we still had beautiful weather But they had to turn our power off in order to do you know things and we got to use all of our giant batteries and Roger Lipp has never been happier, but this has nothing to do with what we’re talking about We are talking about as we go into lint I think you and I you know, we’re both looking at

Tonya Kubo (01:33)
Yeah

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (02:00)
We just cut off of a conversation where there’s a lot going on in Tonya’s life like right now like Tonya I hate to say this this has been like the most chill week I’ve had and it feels like five years

Tonya Kubo (02:11)
Yay! I was gonna

say because you haven’t had a chill week in five years, Kathi you deserve a chill week.

Kathi Lipp (02:19)
I am absorbing it and I’m doing some deep thinking and things like that. And on the opposite end of the spectrum is Tonya’s life. And it’s interesting, I’m gonna ask you a question that we did not prepare for. With everything going on in your life, there’s been some relationship stuff, emotional stuff, work stuff, kid stuff.

Tonya Kubo (02:33)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:44)
If you were still where you were 10 years ago with clutter, how would this week have looked different for you? Because I know it’s been a very stressful week, but I also know you’ve made great progress in your life.

Tonya Kubo (02:49)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so the thing is, is when in my life, right, when I was early in my clutter journey, because I think like we have a lot of listeners who are like eons beyond where I started off with, right? Like they are just so much, their starting point is so much higher than where my starting point was. But I wouldn’t have been able to function. I mean, I think I would have had to take like a week off of work.

Kathi Lipp (03:14)
All right.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (03:26)
I’d probably have a really hard time. I definitely would have a hard time eating. That’s always one of the things is when I am overwhelmed and life is difficult, I really struggle to feed myself. I feed the people around me, but I don’t do well feeding myself. And then I just fall into like very base level survival habits. So I wouldn’t have slept. You know, my old life, I would frequently be up 18 to 20 hours a day.

Kathi Lipp (03:31)
you

Yeah.

my goodness. I can’t even imagine.

Tonya Kubo (03:56)
Because

I just didn’t feel like I had the luxury of sleep. And so…

Kathi Lipp (03:59)
And it

can I also point something else out that I I just want to say, you know, this is again, rough couple of weeks, lots of things going on. And not only clutter wise, are you so much further behind? And, know, if somebody says that, oh, I lost $50,000 in the stock market, that’s a lot of money. But depending on where you started from, that could be life changing.

Tonya Kubo (04:03)
Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Kathi Lipp (04:28)
Or

I have to put off retirement for another three months. know, like for different people, yeah. So that you didn’t have to start with such a deficit because of this, but you have also done some big stuff for your health over the past couple of years that, you know, where, you know, 10 years ago, your health also would have taken. I’m just saying you have done so much progress in so many ways.

Tonya Kubo (04:32)
Right. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (04:58)
That while this has been an incredibly hard couple of weeks You have done it with you know, you’ve kept your nose above water

Tonya Kubo (05:06)
Right, well, it’s been very easy to figure out what to do and not do, right? So it’s one of those things where, you know, it’s like the, we’re kind of at the beginning of the month and we do a lot of our grocery shopping at the beginning of the month. But like my shelves weren’t bare. It was no hardship to put off grocery shopping for a week. You know, some people had offered to bring us meals and I just said yes. And it was very easy to say yes to that because I didn’t have food rotting in the fridge.

Kathi Lipp (05:10)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Right.

Good for you.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (05:35)
because we

have a great system for eating all the food that we cook. So it was like, yeah, actually, my leftovers will be tapped out on Wednesday. So if you want to bring dinner over for us on Wednesday, that will be awesome. And then somebody else was like, well, can I just send you Uber Eats gift card? You are welcome to send us that. That would be great. I have a great use for that. So I could, when people offered help, I knew exactly what kind of help I needed. But the main thing, Kathi, is I was in bed by eight o’clock every single night.

Kathi Lipp (05:38)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (06:04)
Now the one hard thing for me, right, is because again, when I get stressed out, like my body just does different things. I have not been able to get out of bed before 5 a.m., which you me, I’m a 4 a.m. person.

Kathi Lipp (06:15)
I’m sorry. Yeah, for the rest of the world, yes, but for Tonya, I know that’s sleeping in.

Tonya Kubo (06:21)
But being able to sleep for that kind of stretch would not have been possible before.

Kathi Lipp (06:26)
Yeah, and you know what I’m going to attribute a lot of this to not everything but a lot of it too is that you really are our champion when it comes to the hidden cost of clutter You’re the one who’s constantly pointing out No, it’s not just that you have to move stuff over if you want to sit down on your couch You you are the one who keeps bringing up in conversation the emotional drain

Tonya Kubo (06:41)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:55)
the spiritual drain. And so that’s what I want to talk to you about today is, is it possible, all these places where we just, we are feeling so incredibly tapped out, is it possible to make changes like that in your life? And I, you know, I’m just going to say yes, because I’ve seen it in your life. I’ve seen it in my own life.

Tonya Kubo (06:58)
Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:22)
I’ve seen it in the lives of some of, you know, many of our members where, and I think we sometimes forget to do that because we see how much further we have to go. I’m doing this with my clutter right now. Like, can you believe how out of control my t-shirt drawer is? Like, why am I even teaching anything in Clutter Free? Because if you saw my t-shirt drawer, you’d be like, she has nothing to say. And, but before,

Tonya Kubo (07:33)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi Lipp (07:51)
I was paying late charges on every bill we had. I couldn’t find, I remember the day I couldn’t find my toothbrush. Like Tonya, what happened to my toothbrush? Like where was I taking my toothbrush?

Tonya Kubo (07:55)
Right.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (08:09)
And if you came to my house right now, would I like five minutes heads up? Yeah. Do I need it? I don’t. so I, yes, that change is possible. I want to know for you, where have you seen the biggest difference in emotions from the time? And both of us are coming from guys, our houses are not perfect. And Tonya would be the first to say, cause she’s been to my house. You know, she is

Tonya Kubo (08:16)
Right.

Kathi Lipp (08:38)
Let’s just say she has a lot of life going on at her house. know, Roger and I, we could say, I could say I’m not cooking today, and it would just be fine. That would not go over so well at your house. You know, people…

Tonya Kubo (08:47)
Mm-hmm.

No. Well Abby would

love that because then Abby would be like, well, can we go to Olive Garden? answer is no, child. No, cannot. No.

Kathi Lipp (08:55)
Hahaha!

Abby and Roger are just two people separated by 50 years. That’s all there is to it.

I just want to know what, where have you seen the biggest emotional difference for you?

Tonya Kubo (09:13)
So this is, hard to articulate, but I’ll try and then you’ll make it sound like it makes sense. Before, there was always a level of chaos. So if you picture like, okay, my brain is cluttered and there’s a scale of one to 10. On a good day, my brain was already at level seven. So there was never much more space for things, right?

Kathi Lipp (09:40)
Right.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (09:41)
So

like prioritizing the simplest, I just couldn’t do it. By the end of the workday, I’d already made so many decisions. I couldn’t tell you what to have for dinner unless I’d planned that four days ago. Now, I would say my average level of like capacity of my brain taken up is like two. So like a lot of life can actually get thrown at me before I’m at that level of paralyzed that I was every single day.

Kathi Lipp (09:44)
Mm-hmm.

Right. Yes.

Mmm.

That’s such a gift. is. When you’re not having to spend, you know, your levels on finding the car keys, figuring out where that permission slip is that your kid brought home three days ago. When you are not having to, you know, when dishes are not a crisis. Because I remember thinking dishes are a crisis, not this is just a part of what we do every day. I know.

Tonya Kubo (10:13)
It really is.

Mm-hmm.

Uh-huh.

Right?

Kathi Lipp (10:40)
I know that sounds dramatic, but it was amazing how long I could let the dishes go before I actually did something about them and how bad I felt about that.

Tonya Kubo (10:51)
Right. Well, so here’s the other thing, right? Is when you’re like underwater, literally underwater because life is that unmanageable because I’m sorry, but I know very few people who just have a cluttered home, right? Usually it’s a cluttered home, it’s a cluttered head, it’s a cluttered heart, it’s a cluttered schedule. And all of those things contribute to the cluttered home. So when you’re not…

Kathi Lipp (11:07)
Right.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (11:20)
that far underwater and life throws you a curve ball, it’s very easy to shift things around. You know, like you’re talking about dishes. So in our house, certain people have designated chores. It was a simple conversation of, with everything going on, Lily, I need you to be in charge of washing the dishes every day this week. Abby, I know that you’re used to three reminders to empty the dishwasher. I really need us to have a day where

Kathi Lipp (11:28)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:50)
I tell you something once and it gets done. Can you do that for me? Right? And I mean, she’s 10. Does she want to do it? No. She’s like, yeah, mommy, okay, I can do that. I see everything is going cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs around here. No problem. I got that. But 10 years ago, well, let’s see, Clutter, yeah, 10, it’s been 10 years since Clutter Free came out. 10 years ago, I couldn’t have even been able to tell you what to show.

Kathi Lipp (11:52)
Mm-hmm.

Of course not.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

It’s been 10 years.

Okay.

Tonya Kubo (12:18)
You would

have come to me and you would have said, Tonya, what’s not getting done this week because of all this stuff going on? I’d be like, I don’t know.

Kathi Lipp (12:24)
Yeah. And I think you made a really good point a bit ago when you are so underwater and somebody wants to throw you a rope and you’re like, I don’t even have a hand to catch that with. Like I can’t tell you how to help me. And I love that you were so specific in asking for help. We’re going to take a quick break. We’re going to come right back and I want to talk about a little bit more of the impact and then an opportunity for

Tonya Kubo (12:36)
Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:51)
everybody who’s listening, because I think we have some really cool stuff up coming up that I think will help you if you’re relating at all to this conversation. Okay, we’ll take a quick break and come right back.

Okay, I am back with Tonya, we’re just talking about what is the hidden cost of clutter. And you know, one of the things that we talk a lot about in the group is spiritual disconnection. And people, you know, I’ll never forget. I can quote you almost every bad review I’ve ever had on the book. By the way, I just got a one-star review on Sabbath Soup.

And she didn’t like that I said, you know, there are different days you can have your Sabbath. And her username is picky mommy. And I’m like, okay, if you see that, yeah, if she calls herself that it’s okay. But one of the bad reviews I got on Clutter Free back when it came out was that clutter isn’t a fight between good and evil. Clutter is not from the devil. Okay, fine. You know what?

Whatever you want to say, but here’s what I know. My clutter, so much of it has been rooted in fear, guilt, and shame. And those are things that leave me spiritually disconnected. Especially, I would say, especially shame. Shame is a big thing for me. I want to know from you in these past 10 years, was shame a part of your decluttering journey?

Tonya Kubo (14:03)
That’s fine.

Kathi Lipp (14:31)
Was it fear? Was it guilt? Or was that not really it? What would you say was your disconnect?

Tonya Kubo (14:39)
Well, for me, it was all three to different degrees. mean, definitely fear drove my Claire in a big way. The shame piece was… So I probably had less guilt than I had shame. I probably had more shame. For me, the shame was I really thought everybody else got this and I didn’t. Right. So I was ashamed of the fact that there was like some missing piece that I couldn’t figure out. And

Kathi Lipp (14:46)
Okay, yeah.

right.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (15:09)
You know, because of course so many people think clutter is a housekeeping issue. We know it’s not, you know, so it’s like, you know, a shame that I couldn’t keep a house. Well, then once I understood the emotional drivers of clutter, then it’s like, well, no, it’s like, I didn’t understand how to manage the ebb and flow of stuff. I was overwhelmed. I had an unrealistic attachment to items. I really had deep, deep fear of scarcity.

Kathi Lipp (15:14)
It’s not.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (15:36)
You know, I still struggle with that. I talked to a lot of our members about that, right? Like, I feel like that will always be my albatross, like until the day I die. I will always default to this fear. But the shame piece has been gone for years. I think actually shame left first. I think guilt hung on a little bit longer, but shame left first simply because it’s like, you know what? Why is irrelevant? It just is. And this is who I am.

Kathi Lipp (15:37)
Yeah. Right.

Yes. Yeah.

Mmm, that’s so exciting.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (16:05)
and

I’m just, I’m working to get better each day.

Kathi Lipp (16:09)
Do you think the fear, I know for me, it came from parental underemployment? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (16:15)
It’s poverty. Yeah, my fear

is 100 % poverty driven.

Kathi Lipp (16:19)
Yeah. And it’s a killer. part of our psyche now. It’s part of our DNA. so, you know, when you see people gathering too much or doing too much, just realize, you know, that’s probably based in real fear for them. And it’s good to have an understanding while still, you know, in ourselves trying to work on it. You know, I think about all of this, the fear, guilt and shame. It has an impact on our relationships.

Tonya Kubo (16:26)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:50)
financially, I think about this that I tend to buy things, you know, my my impulse is to buy things to have a backup of a backup of a backup because of some of that childhood stuff that is still going on. And I love that you have taken up the mantle in our group for not just Clutter Free, but for Clutter Free.

Tonya Kubo (17:01)
Mm-hmm.

Right?

Kathi Lipp (17:18)
We have a Bible study and the subtitle is, it’s Clutter Free Bible study, what Jesus has to say about your stuff. And because we know the number one topic in the New Testament isn’t anything that we are currently fighting about in the United States. It is money and stuff. Jesus knew that this was, you know, talk about an albatross around your neck. Jesus knew that this was going to be our biggest hang up.

Tonya Kubo (17:20)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:47)
in everything that we do. And so every year you lead a Bible study that I wrote 10 years ago. But it is, I would say, in many ways, it’s more relevant today in 2025 than it was in 2015. And can you tell me a little bit about why you’re so passionate about this Bible study for people who struggle with clutter?

Tonya Kubo (18:05)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, well, I mean, I’m passionate about it because this is how our Facebook group got started. I like, I’m just a little bit nostalgic about that. We got started as a Bible study. But see the thing with the Bible study, again, we have a tendency to think symptoms are the problem, right? And very rarely are symptoms and the problem the same. So where symptoms of a problem emerge oftentimes is very far from where the problem actually is rooted.

Kathi Lipp (18:16)
Guess. Mm-hmm. Guess.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (18:42)
And

clutter, this physical clutter, the stuff in our home is actually a symptom. The real problem, as you’ve pointed out, is fear, guilt, and shame. But the real problem, I think, especially for believers, is there’s this contradiction, right? We’re supposed to have this neat and tidy house, but then we have internalized this message that we’re supposed to keep every single thing we’ve bought because that’s the only way we can prove we’re a good steward of the money that we’ve been given.

Kathi Lipp (19:09)
Right.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (19:10)
And there’s

this battle that our cluttery people fight all the time between I want a tidy house. I have too much stuff in this house. I need less stuff, but I don’t want to be wasteful. And so what I love about the Bible study is it breaks it down scripture by scripture at what Jesus really says about stuff and

Kathi Lipp (19:24)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (19:34)
I think for most of us, because it’s a very internal process for the Bible city, this is not the sort of thing you can take before and after pictures of. This is you, your walk with clutter, you, your walk with Christ. But people kind of go internally and then they recognize, the stuff. For some people, they view the stuff as an idol. They recognize like, I’ve been idolizing these things. I think, I’m so safe and so secure because I’ve got

Kathi Lipp (19:41)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (20:03)
15 bags of flour in my pantry, but really the flour is an idol, right? I’m telling myself that I am better than the average person because I have 15 sacks of flour in my pantry. And if I stop and think about it, I don’t bake. So those 15 sacks of flour are actually the biggest waste. I’m better off giving it to a food bank. I’m better off giving it to somebody else. And so I just feel like

Kathi Lipp (20:08)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (20:32)
It drives home how, well, clutter can be a unifying problem, how individual the root cause of each of our clutter issue is.

Kathi Lipp (20:45)
And this Bible study helps people get to the root of it. And the Bible study doesn’t clean your house, but it starts to affect your thinking when you start to have those aha moments and start to see that, this is why I’m doing this. Or here’s the truth behind why I don’t need to do this anymore.

Tonya Kubo (20:49)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Right?

Kathi Lipp (21:12)
And it’s amazing what God can reveal in those times. Tonya, can you give us some details about the study of people are like, you know what, a Linton study is just what I need. And I don’t necessarily want to do the one at church because this one affects my life. I need this in my life.

Tonya Kubo (21:35)
Right, well, and the other thing is because we do it online, you don’t have to worry about walking into a building like with a big scarlet letter across your chest that says, hey, I have Claudia at my house. But the Bible says so Lent, know, Ash Wednesday is March 7th and Easter, I think if I’m not wrong, is like April 20th. So how we do the studies to the actual like core curriculum of the study is from March 7th to April 11th.

Kathi Lipp (21:45)
Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:04)
But I love to have a good kickoff call where I kind of lay out, I always have a small, medium and large plan for the study because I understand this time of year is very busy for some people and for other people it isn’t. And so you get to decide how deep you want to go. So on the kickoff call, we talk about, you know, sort of what your choices are with that. And then we’ll do a celebration to just kind of mark what we’ve done, the realizations that we’ve come to on April 18th.

Kathi Lipp (22:11)
Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:32)
and then you have completed it before Easter starts and you can celebrate Easter with your family and the miracle that comes with that. The Bible study, if you don’t already own it, because if you own it, you own it for life. And so I would just say email us if you don’t know whether you own it and we’ll let you know because we can look that up. But it’s just twenty five dollars. It’s it’s a series of videos and then there’s a printable workbook that comes with it. So you’ve got the online videos, the workbook.

Kathi Lipp (22:44)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Tonya Kubo (22:59)
We have group discussions in our Clutterfree Academy Facebook group. If Facebook isn’t your thing, that’s totally fine. You can do the videos and the workbook and you can email us some of your reflections. I always love to answer people’s emails, so that doesn’t bother me one bit. The group discussions though are really fun because everybody gets something different out of the study every single year.

Kathi Lipp (23:14)
Yeah.

And we all learn from each other. That’s really cool. And then when somebody is talking about why they do the things they do, somebody else has an aha moment. It’s just, it’s really special. It’s really special in there. Okay, so if they want to join, what do they do?

Tonya Kubo (23:33)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so if you need to buy the study because you don’t already own it, it’s kathy.link slash study. We’ll put that in the show notes too, but it’s Kathi. Just make sure it’s Kathi with an I, not with a Y. Dot link slash study. And then our Facebook group is easy to find on Facebook. You can search Cholera Free Academy or just go to kathy.link slash CFA. And that’ll take you directly to the Facebook group where you can join. If you already own the study, you don’t have to make any other purchases.

Kathi Lipp (23:52)
Mm-hmm, for sure.

Hahaha

Tonya Kubo (24:15)
The, you can, some people do like to read the book Clutter Free alongside the study. I always say that that’s like for the A plus plus people. Cause you’re committing to reading a book plus doing the video series and the discussions for six weeks. That’s a lot. But I know some people love that. They want to really go in deep, but most folks will just watch the videos and participate in the discussions and we have a great time.

Kathi Lipp (24:28)
Yes. Yes.

I love it guys. We all again all of this is in the show notes. We’ll also be talking about it in Kathi lips Clutter Free Academy on Facebook but that if you are looking for something a linten study and you would like something that is hits you exactly where you’re at if you’re listening to this podcast This is the study for you and it’s nice that it can be done from home Sometimes when it’s really busy. This is a good thing to be able to do

Tonya Kubo (25:07)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (25:08)
Tonya,

thank you so much for all this great insight. Come back next week. We are going to be talking about some of the practical transformation that can come from this Bible study. You’re gonna love it. Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lip. Now, go live the clutter-free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#682 – Back-to-School Prep: Tips for a Smooth Transition

Aug 12, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Organizing, Parenting, Podcast

In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by Tonya Kubo to tackle the often chaotic back-to-school season. They explore practical strategies to help families organize their homes and lives for a smoother transition into the school year such as ...

#681 – Embracing Empty Spaces: A New Approach to Clutter

Aug 5, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Join Kathi Lipp and the creative genius, Tenille Register, as they explore the journey of embracing space over stuff to live a clutter-free life. In this episode, you'll discover Practical strategies for decluttering with purpose. How choosing space can lead to a...

#680 -From Overwhelmed to Organized: Transform Your Closet in 45 Minutes

Jul 29, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast

Is your closet causing you stress instead of bringing you joy? In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo share their proven system for creating a closet you'll actually love opening every day. What You'll Discover: How to set a clear vision...

#655 Finding Grace in Your Imperfect Space: A Conversation with Hilary Bernstein

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Feb 4, 2025 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Finances, Freedom, Mental Load, Organizing, Overwhelmed, Podcast | 0 comments

#655 Finding Grace in Your Imperfect Space: A Conversation with Hilary Bernstein

Listen Now

Hey there, friend!

Are you caught in the tension between wanting a perfect home and feeling overwhelmed by the impossibility of achieving it? In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp sits down with Hilary Bernstein, author of “The Tension of Tidy,” to explore the connection between perfectionism and our struggle with clutter.

Learn why perfectionists often have the hardest time maintaining an organized home and discover practical strategies for breaking free from the paralysis of perfectionism. Hilary shares insights about finding God’s grace in our imperfect spaces and offers hope for those caught between Pinterest-perfect expectations and real-life limitations.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

– Why perfectionism often leads to cluttered spaces

– How to celebrate small wins in home management

– Practical first steps for overwhelmed perfectionists

– Biblical perspective on imperfect spaces

– Permission to invite people into your imperfect home

Click here to be notified when the next podcast episode is released!

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Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Order your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here.

Links Mentioned:

Hilary Bernstein’s book “The Tension of Tidy“
Hilary Bernstein’s website

Clutter Free Resources:

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Meet Our Guest

Hilary Bernstein

Hilary Bernstein is the women’s ministry director at The Chapel in Green, Ohio, where she brings a wealth of experience from her roles as a blogger, newspaper editor, and columnist. A prolific author, Bernstein, has recently published Prayerful Living and twelve other impactful devotional books. More information can be found at hilarybernstein.com.

Transcript

Kathi Lipp (00:10)
Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with the Clutter-Free queen. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. Okay, we don’t often do top 10 lists, but we’re doing a top 10 list today. I, so this is a two-parter. The first part is 10 things I don’t do now that I live clutter-free.

Tonya Kubo (00:24)
Hey Kathi

Kathi Lipp (00:40)
And next week, we’re going to talk about 10 things I do now that I live clutter free. And so I want to talk to you about how your life has changed, the things that you have stopped. And I just realized I told you we were going to do exactly the opposite podcast, but you know what? We’re we’re just fine. We’re just rolling with it. You know, we’re going to live in the moment here. And so I’m going to get us kicked off because I I think

Tonya Kubo (00:53)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:10)
People would not recognize my life From before clutter free now clutter free has not always I did not say hey I’m gonna start something called clutter free and now I’m gonna change my life like I changed my life and Then I thought I’m not the only one like this I wrote a book called clutter free and then I met my friend Tonya Kubo who seemed like the most put-together human being on the planet, but told me no

Tonya Kubo (01:21)
No.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:39)
her life was a mess too, and we started to figure all this stuff out together. And what a gift that was because as much as the book helped people, I know that our Clutter-Free Academy, Clutter-Free for Life and this podcast have helped just exponentially more people. I really, people don’t believe that I was cluttery at one point. And I’m like, no, I’m still cluttery at some points, but.

Tonya Kubo (01:57)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

still cluttering. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (02:09)
I’m not afraid

to invite you into my house. So I wanted to talk about what are some key things that look different now than they did when I was clutter free. number one, I don’t save up decluttering for the weekends. And this has been a huge shift for me because I would always think as I’ve…

Tonya Kubo (02:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (02:32)
pretty much always been a Monday through Friday, nine to five kind of person and who actually works nine to five. Let’s be clear, it’s eight to six. But I’ve pretty much been that person my whole life and I was just so busy during the week that I’m like, I’m just gonna save all this up for the weekends. And I don’t live like that anymore. Like as I am leaving a room, I’m like, are there things I can grab to throw away, to put away, to declutter?

Tonya Kubo (02:39)
Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (03:00)
Is that similar for you?

Tonya Kubo (03:03)
Yeah, I mean, I still think, you know, because my kids are younger, right? Like our house is always in some state of shambles, but you know, little things that I used to on Fridays clean off my desk, for instance. And now it’s just at the end of the day, right? It just is so much easier to take like a handful of stuff at the end of each day than to have to make multiple trips every Friday.

Kathi Lipp (03:06)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

It makes such a difference, right? Because I don’t know, there’s just something about like, I’ve saved this up for an entire week. You know, instead of just saying, okay, a little bit of time, a little bit of time, my brain has shifted into small amounts of decluttering instead of huge mountains of decluttering. Okay, so that’s number one. Tonya, we’re going back and forth. Tonya, what’s number two?

Tonya Kubo (03:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Kathi Lipp (03:54)
something that you don’t do now that you live clutter-free.

Tonya Kubo (03:57)
Okay, so this might seem silly, but I genuinely used to think unloading the dishwasher took 30 minutes and now I realize it takes about three and a half. So I don’t put off unloading the dishwasher till the weekend. Like seriously, I made it into such a big job in my head and I don’t need more.

Kathi Lipp (04:11)
Right?

Yeah, yes,

I feel like doing the dishes could take a half hour if you’ve got a lot of dishes piled up if you have things that need to be soaked like, you know, deep, deep scrub. Right.

Tonya Kubo (04:24)
Right, but I didn’t say doing the dishes, Kathi. I just

said unload the dishwasher.

Kathi Lipp (04:30)
just thinking maybe that’s why your brain was playing tricks on you and here’s what I know is when you when you unload the dishes here’s the magical thing it’s easier to load the dishes I know that seems like it should be obvious but our cluttery people will get that

Tonya Kubo (04:42)
Right.

Yeah, no, exactly, exactly.

Kathi Lipp (04:49)
Yeah, okay. Number three, I don’t stand next to the gas pump while it’s filling up. I, okay, so I think a lot of our cluttering friends will get this. I went, those small moments, like just like you were talking about with the microwave, I unload the dishwasher in the two and a half minutes that my, or I at least get it started in the two and a half minutes that my oatmeal is cooking.

Tonya Kubo (05:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (05:18)
And

so now I am married to somebody who does quiet contemplation while his coffee is warming up. And I’m like, you know what, we just live different lives. while I’m pumping my gas, I clean out the car. I just grab a few things. I throw them into the garbage. I feel like that’s free garbage. Garbage is such a big deal up here.

Tonya Kubo (05:24)
Hahaha

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yes,

it is free garbage. I am right there with you.

Kathi Lipp (05:45)
It makes me so happy. I can’t even stand it. Yeah, I’m never somebody who would bring garbage from my house to throw away. I’ve heard of people doing that. I know. But if I’ve got a McDonald’s cup, that that’s going in the garbage while I’m pumping. It is I’m doing all the things and even like our truck takes a long time to fill up. I have been known to we have a like a hand vac in the truck.

Tonya Kubo (05:53)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yup.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:14)
and I’ve been known to like vacuum things out while I’m doing, yeah, it makes me so happy I can’t even stand it. Okay, but I’m doing, what the core concept behind that is it just takes a moment to make a small difference. And like you just said with the unloading dishwasher and even with the, I don’t save up decluttering for the weekends. If I can do a little bit each day, man, the weekends can be for.

Tonya Kubo (06:17)
Nice.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (06:42)
fun or bigger projects or things like that. Okay, number four, Tonya, what’s something that you don’t do now that you’re living clutter free?

Tonya Kubo (06:44)
Mm-hmm.

I don’t go shopping when I’m tired, hungry, or frustrated.

Kathi Lipp (06:56)
That’s my favorite time to go shopping. Okay, tell me more. Right.

Tonya Kubo (06:58)
It’s everybody’s favorite time to go shopping.

Right. But I mean, something that I learned early on in my clutter free journey is that when I’m tired, I’m hungry or I’m frustrated, my tolerance, like my my impulse control is lower and my desire to soothe is higher. And so I feel like everything I see at the store is going to make me feel better. And it is not.

Kathi Lipp (07:16)
Yeah.

Mmm, good.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (07:26)
to make me feel better. I am still going to leave the store tired, hungry, and frustrated so I may as well just solve those problems before I go.

Kathi Lipp (07:33)
Okay, can I tell you how I’m even worse at this and it’s something I need to correct in my own life. So I go to the store, which is a chore, right? That is an errand. Right. And I feel like because I have done that, even when I was living in San Jose and things were like five minutes, like, look at me checking things off of my list. I deserve a little treat, a little treaty treat. Can we just say that shopping and Target

Tonya Kubo (07:42)
Yeah, it’s a jaunt for you. It’s a jaunt.

Hahaha

Kathi Lipp (08:02)
It’s so much better when you have Starbucks. And so like this is the thinking I have to unpack all the time in my cluttery journey. it just, makes a difference. It makes a difference when you say, and I just, but I try not to go, I pack snacks now in our car so that we are not so tempted.

Tonya Kubo (08:05)
I’m sure it is, I’m sure it is.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:32)
Like it’s okay every once in a while to go to Starbucks, but you don’t get Starbucks every time you leave the house. Yes, okay. And so tired, hungry, frustrated will lead you to, and here’s the other part of that that I think is you’re so wise because I’ll just throw things in my cart and I’ll say I’ll return them later if I’m frustrated. Like, you know, don’t go shopping for jeans when you’re tired, frustrated or hungry. That’s just the meanest thing you could do to yourself.

Tonya Kubo (08:32)
Yeah.

Mmm.

No.

Kathi Lipp (09:00)
but then I’ll buy all the jeans and then I’m like, now I have to take them back. And then like, I already have a return right now of a shirt and it’s, we’re recording this around Christmas time. And I’m like, the last thing I want to do on earth is go into a store and return a shirt. Like I can’t think of anything I want to do less. Okay. Number five, I don’t leave a room without scanning the room. So.

Tonya Kubo (09:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm

Kathi Lipp (09:27)
What that means is I don’t, I don’t just walk into another room. I will walk into another room, but I will grab the dish that’s on my desk. I will grab the shirt that needs to be returned. Can you tell I’m going through stuff? I will grab the jacket that needs to be hung downstairs. And here’s why I think that this matters. Even if I’m just going into Roger’s office, which is still on the top of the floor.

I’ll move those things to the top of the stairs so that I used to think if I’m gonna do something, I need to do it all the way. And no, I just need to push it forward. I need to push that chore forward. And that makes a huge difference. It’s like, even if I can’t unload the entire dishwasher while my oatmeal is cooking, I’m pushing it forward enough and I’m yelling up to Roger,

Tonya Kubo (10:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:26)
The dishes are clean, I’m just not done yet. And so he knows not to put dirty dishes in there. But if you can push it forward, then the next time you’re reheating your coffee, you can push it forward another minute and you might get it done. And so scanning a room, seeing what can I push into place? Because here’s what I know, if I leave it all until I have time, then I’m gonna spend half a day going up and down the stairs. And that sounds like my worst nightmare, I hate that stuff.

Tonya Kubo (10:29)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (10:56)
Yeah, okay. So we have gone through our top five. We’re gonna take a quick break, pay some bills. We’re gonna come back and Tonya is gonna talk about how she doesn’t apologize. I can’t wait to hear about how you do this. Teach me, Obi-Wan. We’ll be right back. Okay, guys, we are back with 10 things I don’t do now that I live clutter free. So Tonya, you say you don’t apologize. For what?

Tonya Kubo (11:23)
I

apologize for the condition of my house.

Kathi Lipp (11:26)
So tell me more. Tell me how I can get brave and be really like, just come on in.

Tonya Kubo (11:33)
well, just stop doing it. I mean, that’s how I did it, right? It was like a cold turkey. Like, I think there was a bit of a transition of where I would say, I probably should apologize for the state of my house, but I won’t. But I just don’t. And, you know, some people come in and say stuff and some people don’t, and I don’t really care. Because what I realize is we all have a different standard. You know, I used to apologize. And I realized that a lot of people

Kathi Lipp (11:37)
wow.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:03)
Like, first of all, I would apologize after spending hours doing a crisis clean because I knew other people would come in and like, and feel like my house was in complete disarray. And I was like, why am I acting like I didn’t just kill myself to make this house look nicer? And then I got to where, you know what? What do I care? mean, people come in, sometimes people are like, wow, you must be really busy. I am. That’s not untrue. I am really busy.

Kathi Lipp (12:13)
Mmm.

Right, right.

It’s a great friend test, right? Can we hang? Can we hang? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:33)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I’m just

like, there’s nothing they could say that’s probably not true to some degree. And I’ve had like repair guys come in, it’s funny, is because the repair guys will come in and our front room doesn’t have flooring. We tore up the flooring and then building costs went up so we have not replaced the flooring. And they’ll go to put the booties on them like, yeah, that’s cute. You don’t have to do that here. And they’ll look around and they’re like, okay.

Kathi Lipp (12:49)
All right. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:01)
Every now and then they’ll say, are you sure? Like, yeah, no, we’re good here.

Kathi Lipp (13:06)
Yeah.

Well, it’s so true. Our lives are all in transition, right? And when you have kids, the amount of day-to-day clutter goes up exponentially. Or maybe you’re in the midst of a big project. You know, I’ll never forget during the launch of Clutter Free, book, the state my house was in. It was like, we can’t take any pictures. And just recently,

Tonya Kubo (13:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (13:35)
Tenneil who manages our social media said, Kathi, can we get a video of you pushing in a chair? And right now we’re in Christmas crazies. I’m like, it would take me 45 minutes to get to a place to push in a chair. Right, it’s, yeah, because there’s all the fudge making supplies right there, yeah. So are you really, are you using marshmallow fluff in it?

Tonya Kubo (13:45)
No. To push in the chair. You’re like, “‘Cause I can’t get to the chair to push it in.”

Yes, I’m making fudge this weekend too. Anyway, I am.

I am using marshmallow fluff in it. I took a whole class on how to make fudge using marshmallow fluff. It was fun.

Kathi Lipp (14:05)
I saw that I saw that well,

I saw the fudge class. I didn’t know that there was the marshmallow fluff. Yeah, I’m very excited I’m just using a recipe off the internet But as you know, we live next to not next to you know half I don’t know 20 minutes away from a gourmet chocolate shop, which is the only Yeah, they’re a whiner They ship they’re so good but also let’s just say their fudge has gourmet prices and I’m like

Tonya Kubo (14:16)
Mm-hmm.

Little John’s, they ship. Little John’s, you should order from Little John’s.

Yes

Kathi Lipp (14:35)
How much would it cost for me to do this? And Roger’s like, we can buy their other stuff. We never have to buy fudge again. And I was like, I’m an indentured fudge servant now. Got it. Okay. Okay. You know what? It’s good. Hey, speaking of fudge, number seven, I don’t buy all the gear for hobbies unless I have a pattern of doing the hobby. Because here’s what I’ve discovered, Tonya. You know what my hobby is? Buying the stuff for hobbies.

Tonya Kubo (14:44)
Yes, I am too.

Mmm.

I

was gonna say preparing to have a hobby.

Kathi Lipp (15:07)
So here’s what I said, know, like one of the recipes that I am preparing right now called for a candy thermometer. And I’m like, ugh.

Tonya Kubo (15:17)
I need that for the fudge recipe with the marshmallow fluff. You need a candy thermometer.

Kathi Lipp (15:20)
Okay, so here’s what I told

myself if I prepare three recipes right now that don’t require the the thermometer if I if I prepare these three Christmas gift II things then I am allowed to buy a Candy thermometer and I got one by the way Michaels has 30 % off coupons for a while now. So go check that out I got the I think it’s the Wilson one but

Tonya Kubo (15:34)
Mm-hmm.

Ew.

Kathi Lipp (15:49)
I cannot tell you how many hobbies I’ve invested in and had to keep that stuff because I invest I told myself I’ve invested so heavily I need to keep all this stuff. It just it doesn’t make sense and it’s not the right thing. So I no longer I need to have a pattern of Can I start this hobby with stuff I have or can I start this hobby for less than ten dollars? And if I find that I really enjoy it

Tonya Kubo (15:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (16:19)
Then I will keep going but I am NOT going to go I’ll just say my history is buying at a professional level and performing at an amateur level like it’s not good

Tonya Kubo (16:30)
I

know that feeling though. If I have the same paints and brushes that Bob Ross has, I will make the same pictures that Bob Ross made.

Kathi Lipp (16:37)
Right.

Right, right.

And you know, our friend Cheri Gregory, friend of the podcast, Cheri Gregory calls it buying to become and I have done that for years and years. Okay, Tonya, number eight.

Tonya Kubo (16:49)
Yeah.

Okay, I kind of stole from you because you said that you scan a room before you leave. Before I go to bed, I make a round through the house specifically for dirty dishes. And here’s my, if I made a round through my house for decluttering, I would never make it to bed. But I can make a pass through my teeny tiny house just for dirty dishes in about 25 minutes. And it makes my life so much easier that

Kathi Lipp (16:58)
Yeah. Yeah.

so smart.

No, of course not.

Hmm

Tonya Kubo (17:24)
Like, know, because all run into bulls, where are all the bulls? The bulls are in the kids’ room underneath the bed. Why are they underneath the bed? I actually can’t answer that question, but that is where I find them.

Kathi Lipp (17:33)
Okay, Tonya, we are missing a bowl right now. There are just two of us. There are just two of us. This giant glass bowl, we cannot find. Is it under Lily’s bed? That’s my question now.

Tonya Kubo (17:36)
Maybe it’s under my bed!

It’s probably under Lily’s bed, and this is the worst of it, right? Is the way that Abby’s bed works, it sits lower to the ground. So Abby shoves stuff underneath Lily’s bed too. It’s not even all Lily’s fault.

Kathi Lipp (17:52)
Ugh.

Poor Lily. I’m sorry Lily. I did not mean to throw you under the bus bus or the bed Okay, so you do so what 25 minutes that seems like a long time so break that down for me Really okay

Tonya Kubo (18:13)
It’s a lot of dishes in my kid’s room and a lot of

dishes by Mr. Kubo’s desk. So it’s two trips. Two to three trips from the girl’s room, two trips from Brian’s desk and then

Kathi Lipp (18:20)
Got it. So you’re having to make multiple trips. Got it. Okay. And then

And and you’re

loading you’re soaking all that. Okay, that makes more sense. Okay Okay, that makes total sense. And I think doing doing a round of dishes I really feel like when everything else in your life falls apart the two things that you need to stay on top of are dishes and laundry because Mm-hmm. Yeah

Tonya Kubo (18:49)
Yes and I will say just really quickly that 25 minutes

does include a good five minute temper tantrum of my gosh what is growing in this thing.

Kathi Lipp (19:00)
I love it. Yeah, the the the Dishes and laundry if you stay on top of those like I don’t care how crunchy your kitchen floor gets I don’t care, you know at the I would say the third thing but this doesn’t have to be done as Much is staying on top of bills. Those are the important things that if you fall behind on them It’s going to be super painful to recover from them

Tonya Kubo (19:01)
That’s in there too.

No.

Mm-hmm. yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:25)
But if you can stay on top of those three things, it takes almost the same amount of energy to mop the floor when it’s been a week or five weeks. Like, I don’t want you to have to go five weeks, but if you need to in a crisis, you can. And yeah, and also stay on top of your garbage and recycling. number nine. This is my last thing of things I don’t do now that I live clutter free.

Tonya Kubo (19:37)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (19:55)
Okay, I try not to I’m still working through this but I’m much better than I used to be I don’t compare my stuff to my friends stuff so Or stuff on social media. There is always a new thing That would make my life two percent easier or two percent better Not not my entire life if something made my entire life two percent better you bet I’m going to invest in that but like

Tonya Kubo (20:04)
Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:25)
Let’s say, know, my, my robot vacuum, there are now robot vacuums that you can control remotely. Like I could be at my mom’s house and now I could get that doesn’t make my life better enough to upgrade my robot. Like my robots fine. We get along. We, she does what she needs to do. I’m sorry. It’s normally a he. I don’t know why I said she, cause I like for all my domestic labor to be he’s.

Tonya Kubo (20:34)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:55)
Because I just think that’s fair But I Just because somebody else has something that has made their life Infamates Lee better. It doesn’t mean that I need to upgrade it. I I try when I see you wearing a cute sweater I’m not going to say you know what? need that cute sweater. I’m gonna I’m one of things I’m trying to do is go into my own closet

Tonya Kubo (21:09)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:22)
and see

my own cute sweaters and the things that make me happy. So I’m trying really hard to reframe what my friends have. And also that can be a form of jealousy. I can just say, you know what? I’m really happy that Tonya has that sweater. I think she looks great in it. She’s having fun with it. And it makes me happy to see her in it. And it doesn’t have to be, I don’t have to own it for it to bring me happiness. So trying to stay out of that comparison trap.

Tonya Kubo (21:33)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (21:52)
And I’m sure when you go into people’s houses that have floors, that can be hard.

Tonya Kubo (21:57)
I do have floor envy right now, I’m not gonna lie. If you’ve got luxury vinyl plank, I’m eyeballing your floors, let me tell ya.

Kathi Lipp (21:59)
I you do.

And I do have that upstairs and I wrestled over that decision for about two years And I’m so glad we pulled the trigger It’s so painful to get flooring done just because of all the moving and shifting and all that kind of stuff Okay, Tonya round out our list. Give us number ten. All right

Tonya Kubo (22:09)
Yeah, no.

It is.

My cluttery peeps will get this. I no longer gain comfort or security from having full shelves, full drawers, etc.

Kathi Lipp (22:33)
yeah, space scares us, doesn’t it? Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (22:37)
Space is scary because space is scarcity and lack and my gosh what

if I don’t have enough. But if things are full even if they’re full of stuff that you haven’t worn in 22 years you believe you have enough clothes if for some reason they stopped making all clothing.

Kathi Lipp (22:48)
Right?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so Tonya, this is so interesting. A number of people on TikTok and other apps are doing a no buy 2025, right? And the conventional wisdom is declutter your closet so you can see what you have. And then, so you know what you have, because it is, it’s easier to see what you have when you have less stuff in your closet.

Tonya Kubo (23:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (23:22)
But I heard one woman, I thought this was so interesting. And I’m just gonna throw this out there for your reaction. She goes, I am not decluttering before my 2025. Because when I declutter, I feel like there is empty space. And I feel this urge to fill that space with shopping, with thrifting, with all these other things. So what she is doing is she is.

Tonya Kubo (23:39)
Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (23:50)
putting some of her clothes into another closet, including clothes she likes, so that she will, she remember, I’ve got more stuff. I don’t know, how does that hit you? I thought it was really interesting. Really.

Tonya Kubo (23:53)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I have a friend who does that actually. she has,

yeah, so she boxes up all of her extra stuff, even if it’s in the current season. And she has it all in like the rafters of her garage. But whenever she’s like, I wanna go shopping, she just goes and she takes a box down and she trades out pieces.

Kathi Lipp (24:10)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You know, I think it’s really interesting. And so I’m not saying one way is better than the other. I’m going to try the other closet boxing because yeah, when I pull out all my winter stuff, I’m so happy. I’m like, I never need to go shopping again. And then after about two weeks, I’m like, you know, people are really into these green grandpa sweaters and like, okay, Kathi, stop, stop, stop, stop.

Tonya Kubo (24:50)
Yeah,

see, and I’m the person, I want all of my clothing to be able to fit in this much of my closet. Like, I don’t wanna ever change anything out. I don’t wanna work that hard. I’m just so, like, I don’t wanna say lazy, but really it’s just like, that is just something that takes such a high level of perceived energy for me that I’m like, I’m good.

Kathi Lipp (24:56)
Yes, you.

Yeah.

Okay, see, even within our Cluttery community, we all have our own little quirks. And that’s why it’s okay for you to forge your own path, but think about the wisdom that will get you to the next space in your Clutter-free journey. I hope one of these has inspired you today. Tonya, thanks so much for hanging out with me.

Tonya Kubo (25:18)
We do.

Thanks for having me.

Kathi Lipp (25:37)
And friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter-free life you always wanted to live.

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