630 Plan Now, Relax Later: 5 August Tips for a Peaceful Christmas

What are some of your creative ways to approach gift exchanges with extended family?

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

Transcript

Kathi (00:01.084)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with the co -hostess with the mostest, it is Tonya Kubo. Hey Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (00:47.113)

Yay!

Tonya Kubo (01:08.736)

Hey, Kathy.

Kathi (01:10.444)

I’m excited about today’s episode. feel like as we’re planning ahead, nothing makes me feel like so smart as planning ahead, as pre -deciding, as getting decisions out of the way so that August Kathi is a hero in November Kathi’s eyes. And that’s what we’re gonna do for each of our listeners today. So I’m gonna turn it over to you because my excitement is gonna spill out so much. not even.

Let’s just admit it, I had trouble doing the intro today. I was so excited about this.

Tonya Kubo (01:43.165)

I was just saying, you’re so excited that you have 400 words trying to come out of your mouth at the same

Kathi (01:48.873)

All at the same time, but let’s let’s dive in. Let’s do

Tonya Kubo (01:52.954)

Okay, so what we’re actually talking about is Christmas. And if you are like me, I was gonna say, if you’re grinchy like I am, you’re like, seriously, what is this? But here is something that I know from several years of leading Clutterfree Academy and our Clutterfree for Life membership program, Kathy, and that is that we cluttery people have a true biological need

Kathi (01:58.737)

Yes! Yay! In August!

Tonya Kubo (02:22.22)

to plan to plan. See, Christmas planning in October is about two months too late for most of us.

Kathi (02:29.754)

It really is for us cluttering friends, yes.

Tonya Kubo (02:33.346)

So what we are going to do is this is a two part episode, I believe, and we are going to be it has to be because because I wrote out 10 tips and you wrote out 10 tips and that’s 20 and we’re only going to give you 10 folks. We’re only going to give you 10. So can we just get started, Kathi? I want you to jump right in with what is your first tip when it comes to making a decision in August to have a stress free

Kathi (02:37.892)

Yes, it has to

Kathi (02:42.49)

Yeah

Kathi (02:46.606)

Right.

Kathi (02:57.112)

Okay, so this may sound so basic and for some of you, this is just gonna be a check mark because you’re gonna say, I host Christmas every year on the 24th and 25th and how awesome to have a life that is that perfectly ordered. But for many of us, that is not our reality because we have in -laws, out -laws, blended families, divorced families, all of that kind of thing. So I would implore

to nail down what you’re celebrating, when you’re celebrating, and where you’re celebrating. So for us, we often don’t celebrate Thanksgiving just because we have four kids, some of them work retail, some of them, you know, they all have these schedules where it’s really hard for them to get away from work. And so we just say, you know what, stay with your families in the Bay Area and we’ll do something fun later

So we don’t really worry about Thanksgiving so much, but sometimes we’ll have friends or other family over and that’s great. But Christmas, Christmas needs to be decided. It’s great if it’s decided a year in advance. We often have everybody show up with their little phones and figure out dates. But if we can’t decide a year in advance, August is when you should be doing that. Because if you

If you have other adults coming to your house or you’re going to theirs, I think four months is a really good timeframe to start nailing all that down. makes a lot of sense. And we have one of our kids who’s like, I can’t plan that far in advance. I’m like, well, if you get a better offer, you go for it. But the rest of us, we need to know. So, you know, he’s never planned an adult family function in his life. So it’s okay.

Tonya Kubo (04:32.928)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (04:51.667)

Right, right well then

Kathi (04:52.452)

So what do you guys

Tonya Kubo (04:55.328)

Well, so we actually are the, how do I put this? Like we can’t, we have a core member of the family that will not be able to tell us when they can celebrate Christmas until sometime around December 15th and they are typically the host. So yeah, so we spent several years not spending Christmas or any holiday with family. We did friend.

Kathi (05:08.367)

Yes.

Kathi (05:13.596)

wow!

Tonya Kubo (05:22.486)

We had some friends and we would just spend holidays with them because they had a similar lifestyle to us. They needed to plan several months in advance. And so we would just book it out. But then as the kids get older, right, it’s harder to like explain why we’re not spending Christmas and Thanksgiving with aunts and uncles and grandparents and all of that stuff. So we try to be fluid, but to some degree there’s like, I can only be so fluid, right?

Kathi (05:49.742)

Right, right. Yeah, and I think that that’s okay to say this is what I’m able to do. So what I do in August, if I haven’t done it already, is say, here is the date range of when you can come hang out with us, and here’s the one day that if you can make it work great. If you can’t, let us know now. But if I don’t hear from you in the next few days, I’m going forward, no turning back.

to get that planted so other people can make their plans, so they can do their shop, so they can do all of that kind of stuff. They can figure out their New Year’s plans. Like we’re celebrating as a family the day after Christmas through the next couple of days. you’ve heard me give this advice a thousand times. You can have everybody celebrate together. You can celebrate on the actual date.

you can have people be happy about it. Pick two out of three. And my preference is to have us all together and people to be happy about it. I don’t care if it’s happening on the actual date, but if you can get that nailed down as soon as possible, I think that that is a really smart thing to

Tonya Kubo (06:58.892)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Tonya Kubo (07:09.082)

Awesome. Okay. So that is really good advice. You covered both the importance of ahead, but also how to handle it when it’s sticky, which is something I appreciate because of course, just because you have a need to plan ahead doesn’t mean everybody else has a need. What would be your second

Kathi (07:24.066)

Right. Okay, so while you’re getting together the date and the time and where, know, whose house it’s going to be at, I think it’s all really great to have that conversation about gift exchange. You know, maybe you guys already have a family or friends tradition that is, but also we had kids who were growing into adults and wanted to set the expectation

Tonya Kubo (07:50.348)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (07:53.852)

Early that hey, we don’t need 75 gifts from anybody, but also maybe as you guys get older We don’t need to give you 75 gifts So we’re pretty much at the place where we do three gifts for everybody except we have one teenager in our family And I’m like no we’re gonna buy her the things that she wants and so to just set that expectation also to set expectation with young adults about You know you do get your grandmother a gift

Come on, be a good human being. Like they, you know, they don’t know sometimes because they’ve always had mom and dad take care of it. And so is there, do you need to pull back on some of that? Maybe because somebody in the family is having some financial constraints. You know, what taking the temperature in August is better than announcing in December what you’re going to do. So do you have like

Tonya Kubo (08:23.82)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (08:48.609)

right.

Kathi (08:50.256)

family code when it comes to gift exchange or is it a free for

Tonya Kubo (08:54.723)

Well, so it’s been a free for all for years and this last year the extended family one of the cousins reached out and was just like it’s ridiculous. I do not want to carry all that stuff home ever again. And so they do a trellis. do a bowling day. In lieu of a gift. So everybody goes and bowls for half a day and then they go to somebody’s house and has dinner.

Kathi (09:07.567)

Yeah.

Kathi (09:11.92)

Mmm. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (09:19.49)

And that’s what they do. And the kids love it. It’s so much better than going home with 32 different bags that they can’t remember who gave them what. It’s just so much more

Kathi (09:30.106)

Yeah, you know, Tonya, you and I both have given birth to children who like to open gifts like that. That’s a big part of what they like. And I don’t want to take that away from them. But to be able to do an experience like that, I think that that is tremendous. And especially if that’s like a cool cousin or aunt or uncle, like, you know, then the kid that’s you’re forming core memories there. That is so, so, so

Tonya Kubo (09:36.096)

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (09:54.995)

Right. And of course, I mean, they still get Christmas gifts here. They still get presents at our house, right? It’s just not having that overwhelming

Kathi (09:59.364)

Yes. Yes.

Yes. I love it. I also think this is a good idea to start kind of putting in your mind when people ask you what you would like for Christmas to start coming up with that list, start making decisions and keeping track. If you’re the parent, maybe keeping track of some of the things that your kids have mentioned and to keep that as a curated list. So grandparents, know, aunts, uncles. And then also, I also like to just keep track of where

Tonya Kubo (10:12.098)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:32.74)

be a good gift card for that person. If I’m not coming up with anything specific, what can we do to make them feel just loved and appreciated? Tonya, I think we need to take a quick little break. We need to go pay some bills. We’re going to come back and we’re going to go with number three of our five decisions to make in August to have a less stressed holiday.

Tonya Kubo (10:45.73)

Okay.

Tonya Kubo (10:58.954)

All right, so we are back and Cathy, let’s just jump right into number

Kathi (11:04.718)

Yes. Okay. I think this is a great time for you to have a discussion with your spouse, your partner, your kids, your parents, whomever it is about the holiday budget. this money, money. People would rather talk about money than let’s just say for little ears who are listening, more intimate subjects that I consider more intimate subjects, but, they would rather talk about those more intimate subjects than money.

because money has so much dynamic that’s attached to it. But I think the further out you are from the holiday and gift buying, the easier it is to have those conversations. So have those conversations in August instead of October. And you will take a lot of stress off of people. I, you know, Roger and I will have a budget that includes

Tonya Kubo (11:47.33)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:03.66)

a couple of different categories like gifts, entertaining. Entertaining makes it sound fancy. Let’s just say food, okay? One of the core budget items you need to have if you’re married to Roger Lipp is lighting. We have to have a lighting budget each year. So creating those realistic budgets. And one of the things that I wanna talk to Roger about

Tonya Kubo (12:11.511)

Yeah.

Kathi (12:32.728)

August is to start doing kind of like a Christmas club thing Do you remember clip Christmas clubs from like the seven sixty seventies and they well you weren’t around for some of those decades, but Yeah, okay, so I grew up in a time where you could at your bank open a Christmas club account and Okay, okay you do okay, so tell me about that,

Tonya Kubo (12:43.754)

I was gonna say, no.

Tonya Kubo (12:52.885)

yeah, we have

Yeah, we do that. Yeah. So it’s just, it’s a direct deposit every month and it goes into an account and I have mine set up. the regular Christmas club, it dumps the money automatically into your account like Thanksgiving week. And then it’s everything that you’ve saved up for the last year gets dumped into your account Thanksgiving week. And then that’s your money to go Christmas shopping or do whatever. And ours has, you can do Christmas club and you can

vacation club, which your money gets dumped in the summertime. I don’t like the automatic dumping because sometimes I lose track of it, right? Or, you know, Brian goes, woo, windfall. And there went my Christmas budget. So I haven’t set up to where I manually move the money

Kathi (13:30.214)

Cool.

Kathi (13:36.56)

Mm -hmm.

Right

Kathi (13:47.106)

I like the manually moving because you can start to determine, you know, where are we going to put this? What categories are we going to put this into? I love that. Yeah. So I want to, that’s what I want to do next year is to this August say, okay, let’s start setting up, you know, let’s, let’s start in January of next year, start putting some money aside. I, know, Roger gets a bonus most years and that’s usually

Tonya Kubo (13:49.44)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:16.252)

Christmas comes out of. We don’t know that that’s happening this year. So we’re going to need to, you know, do some creative financing, but that’s okay. And I think it’s good to have a realistic budget. Not like I know that we spent $2 ,000 last year, but we need to keep it to 1000 this year. Like, is that really going to work for you? Or what major thing are you going to take out? Roger and I have decided this year not to do Christmas gifts for each other because

Tonya Kubo (14:29.036)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:43.962)

We want to take a trip next year, things like that. think that that is, you know, having those conversations now so you’re not disappointed when the time comes.

Tonya Kubo (14:53.876)

Right, and I’ll just add another one for families. I have several friends that they actually theme their Christmases, and so they alternate. So there’s an electronics Christmas, and then the next year is a reading Christmas. And they only do so many gifts per child, but so that they know they need a little bit more set aside for electronics Christmas, but they spend a lot less on reading Christmas. And so that helps them balance it

Kathi (14:56.302)

Yeah.

Kathi (15:04.467)

Kathi (15:08.562)

okay.

Kathi (15:12.582)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (15:23.55)

on a two year cycle. I love that idea. So I just feel the need to share that with everybody.

Kathi (15:25.24)

Mm, I love that. Yeah. I think that’s so great. Yes. We did, we, when my kids were growing up, we did more of like, okay, there was a reading gift, there were clothes gifts, and then there was that fun gift, which often had a plug. So yes, I think that that, I think having a theme helps you narrow your decisions and helps you pre -decide, which is what this, this whole episode is about. It’s pre

Tonya Kubo (15:37.782)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (15:52.566)

Right. Well, like you said earlier on, right? It’s about making sure that November you likes August version of you and isn’t like cursing the name of August version of you. So Kathi, we are at tip number four. Do you need me to recap? Cause you may have lost track. Okay.

Kathi (16:01.329)

Yes.

Right, absolutely.

Kathi (16:11.036)

No, I’m good. Number four is your Christmas card list. So here’s what I mean by that. Figure out how many Christmas cards you’re gonna send. So the first decision is, are you sending Christmas cards? And go for

Tonya Kubo (16:28.692)

And Kathy Lipp, can I say something right now? That is the best thing ever. That I read your Christmas project planner after my mom had died. And the year that my mom died, when I read that, that gave me permission not to send Christmas cards that year. And I needed that relief so much.

Kathi (16:46.62)

I’m so glad.

Kathi (16:51.45)

Yeah, you know what and here’s the Brilliant thing. It’s not a binary decision It’s not we are a christmas card family or we’re not a christmas card family We’re like an every other year christmas card family now We did send them last year and my plan is to send them this year because if you listen, you know a big thing that’s going on our life on in our lives

Moose has cancer and this is probably her last Christmas with us and I’m not crying and so I want to have a great picture with me and Roger and Moose for our Christmas card and so I’m probably gonna send them this year and even on the years I don’t send them I love receiving them so I’m honored if I’m on your Christmas card list but I also understand the years where I don’t hear from you for a couple of years because life got in the

Tonya Kubo (17:18.028)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:45.518)

So I think it’s really a great idea in August because can we just say in December trying to send Christmas cards out, like Christmas is a part -time job.

Tonya Kubo (17:57.983)

It is.

Kathi (17:59.469)

And do we really need administrative tasks in December? No, no. So if you can, just get the list together. We’re talk about the cards and everything like that. But just decide if you’re gonna send them and be okay with not sending them. The other thing you can do, okay, Tonya, I will also say this. If you have some people in your family or like aunts or uncles or grandparents,

Tonya Kubo (18:04.266)

No, no, we do

Kathi (18:29.244)

like they live for the Christmas card, you can also buy a pack of like 10 Christmas cards and just send five of them and it’ll be okay. So you sent Christmas cards to these five people who it really means something to and that’s okay. Yes. I do believe that you will not be arrested. Yes, I do believe.

Tonya Kubo (18:41.372)

What?

Tonya Kubo (18:48.047)

I don’t know. Are you sure? Are you

Tonya Kubo (18:54.3)

okay. That reminds me of Abby. Abby will say, is that legal? Yes, yes, there is no law against not sending Christmas cards or only sending part

Kathi (18:58.926)

Right? Right. Yes, it

Tonya Kubo (00:20.329)

All right, Kathy. So I think we are ready for tip number

Kathi (00:25.942)

Okay, so this is like we’re thinking ahead about the Christmas card list. I also want you to think about the Christmas gift list. Like who are you actually giving gifts to this year? And are there people that maybe it’s time to have a discussion, hey, you know, we keep exchanging Amazon gift cards every year. What if we just went to dinner?

Or what if, you know, like I would rather spend time with you than to feel that obligation. And because I love you, don’t need a gift from you to be, now there are people in our lives we wanna do gifts for, our kids, maybe our parents, brothers, whatever. But get realistic about your Christmas card list. Do you have teachers from your kid’s school that you need to give to? Are there, you know,

Tonya Kubo (01:03.873)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (01:24.)

I also, I’ll put in this and in the Christmas budget some big tips that I give. Like we have a house cleaner that comes, you know, a couple of times a month. That I want to give a big tip to them. We have somebody who comes and helps with chopping down trees and things like that here on the property. We’re going to give them a big tip. Maybe it’s your hairdresser, maybe it’s your nail person. Like I give a big tip to the people who are loyal to me all year and who fit me in.

Tonya Kubo (01:38.135)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (01:53.614)

when it’s inconvenient. Because I want to stay on the nice list, not the naughty list. So do you need to have some hard conversations or maybe not hard conversations? Maybe you’re giving some freedom to people, but there’s advantages to early gift planning. Could you stock up on some things early on? Like I think about this, we’re big believers in stockings. We

Tonya Kubo (01:55.52)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (01:59.515)

Right. Exactly.

Tonya Kubo (02:12.884)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (02:22.135)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (02:22.724)

We like to do stockings for everybody in the family and we do stockings for every animal in the family. And so if I can buy those things, and we’ve got bunnies, we didn’t do them for all the chickens, but we do them for the dogs. Yeah, the quad pets, those are the ones that we’re doing it for. So I wanna get those things not in December. Let’s get those things early and so it’s not impacting us quite so much.

Tonya Kubo (02:35.703)

can understand that.

Kathi (02:50.36)

and I can start wrapping early and things like that. this is also a good time to keep track, to keep a list because it’s easy to forget what you’ve bought when you have a lot of kids and maybe they have their partners and they have their kids and all that kind of stuff. So starting a list either in your phone or an Excel spreadsheet or however you do it. Do you have any ideas for a Christmas gift?

creating the list.

Tonya Kubo (03:18.761)

Yes. Yeah, we all have a Google Doc and we just use the Google Doc all year long. And then when holidays come up, we know what to lean into. And, you know, we’ll have the girls prioritize like a little bit before the holiday. So we have a sense. But it’s really, really nice, especially when they’re younger, to just let them have a place where they can dream and then bring them back down to reality when it comes closer to the day.

Kathi (03:23.114)

okay.

Kathi (03:43.694)

Yeah. She’s speaking from experience because as we’ve recorded this, Sunday was a grand birthday in the Kubo home and there was a lot of dreaming and a lot of bringing back down to earth. But you know what? That’s what we do as parents. We give them wings and then we help them land safely.

Tonya Kubo (03:54.077)

Yes, it was a grand birthday.

Tonya Kubo (03:59.755)

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (04:05.549)

Yes. Okay. So Kathy, we have our five tips. I just want to recap them really quick for everybody. So these are our five August decisions for stress -free holiday. And this is part one. We’ve got five more coming up, don’t we? So the first decision is when and where will you have your holiday gatherings? The second is planning those gift exchanges.

Kathi (04:13.583)

Yeah.

Kathi (04:20.248)

Yes. That’s right, baby.

Tonya Kubo (04:34.391)

Who are we buying gifts for? Who’s buying gifts for us? What do we want to do? A little bit of spoiler alert if you’re just catching us. You know what? Do an experience. It’s just easier on everybody. Number three is set your holiday budget early. The further away that you are from the holiday, the less emotional it is. And I loved your tip, Cathy, about the Christmas club, right? Having a savings account that just manages the Christmas budget for you so you don’t have to stress about it.

Kathi (04:44.803)

It is easier.

Tonya Kubo (05:03.853)

Tip number four was your Christmas card list. Start that now, get the addresses now. Don’t do admin tasks a couple of weeks before Christmas. And then finally, along with don’t do admin tasks two weeks before Christmas is let’s get your Christmas gift list going. Now, if you are like me, Kathy, if our listeners are like me, it is hard to keep track of these things. Right now in August, this sounds brilliant, but I’m probably listening to this show on the way to somewhere else. So I cannot write these tips down.

So here’s what I think we should do. I think we should gather together all tips after our next episode and we should have a download for folks that they can find inside Clutterfree Academy, which is our free Facebook group open to all of our listeners and a few of their friends so long as they’re nice. And we will just so that everybody knows what to look for. It’s gonna be called 10 decisions to make in August for a less stressed holiday.

and you’ll find that inside our Clutterfree Academy Facebook group. And the link of that is gonna be in the show notes. Anything you wanna add, Cathy?

Kathi (06:08.336)

Yeah, if you’re saying, I’m gonna go be a part of that group, just know you have to answer a couple of questions before we let you in there. Lots of people apply and they skip over the questions, but we wanna keep that the kindest corner of the internet, and so we’re gonna make you answer the questions. So you have to read the rules, but come in there, you’re gonna find 15 ,000 of your new best friends, and you’re gonna all get clutter free together. Tonya, thank you so much for hosting us today.

Tonya Kubo (06:24.375)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:37.675)

I am so happy to have been doing this. Thank you for having me, Kathy.

Kathi (06:41.84)

Friends join us next week for those other five tips because they really are going to make a difference You know we are going to take care of our future selves and the first way we’re going to do that is to get over the holiday hump with a lot of love a lot of fun and some cocoa, so I’m Kathy lip with Tonya Kubo.

Thank you for joining us. You’ve been listening to Clutterfree Academy. Now, go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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What are some creative ways you display vintage collections without overwhelming a space?

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Meet Our Guest

Hilary Prall

Hilary Prall is the creative mind behind Hilary Prall Blog, an online destination for vibrant, eclectic interior design. Hilary’s passion is creating unique, beautiful spaces that work for real-life budgets. Through her website and digital channels, she shares her colorful home design, DIY ideas, and a penchant for repurposing thrifted items with inspo-seekers all over.

Hilary’s design brightens the feeds of almost 40k fans on Instagram and Facebook. She has been featured regularly on Des Moines NBC affiliate WHO-TV, home retailer blogs, and several online magazines. She offers an array of affordable digital products that provide design help with the click of a mouse.

Before starting Hilary Prall Blog in 2015, Hilary spent years at a job that wasn’t her true calling. That experience, though, is what drives her enthusiasm for encouraging others to pursue their dreams and supporting other entrepreneurs.

A life that blends work, creative interests, and family provides ongoing inspiration as Hilary and husband Jason (with support from Cooper the corgi and Sheldon + Howard the cats) turn the transformation of their builder-grade ranch home into endless sources of design ideas. When she’s not tinkering at home, the next best bets are thrifting, road-tripping, trying a locally-owned restaurant, or enjoying the outdoors.

Visit her at www.hilaryprall.com.

Transcript

Kathi (00:01.381)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy, where our heart is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And we are back. If you didn’t get to hear last week’s episode with designer Hilary Prall,

and content creator, and she’s just fabulous, you guys. You just need to go check her out. Go take a listen to that, because I think that that was a really rich and interesting conversation. Hilary is the daughter of a hoarder and has had to walk through that journey. And as many of you know, both Tonya and I have walked through that journey as well. And to get a little bit of an idea of what you can and cannot do in that journey.

Hilary Prall (00:32.557)

You

Kathi (01:00.549)

But today I want to tap into the other side of Hilary’s life and that is about the design side and You know Hilary I’m sure you said that you’re still going through some of your mom’s things like you’re still working on that situation in your life and That’s been kind of exhausting and I thought it was such an interesting point when we are surrounded by so much clutter

whether it’s ours or somebody else’s, it really can deplete you artistically, creatively, emotionally. Is that what you’ve been going through the past couple of years?

Hilary Prall (01:44.907)

Yeah, I think I just, I mean, aside from just, you know, the suddenness of losing my mom, but then knowing that I was gonna have to deal with all of this stuff. And it feels very lonely. I mean, people will offer to help you, but they have no idea. And we have had very helpful people in it. The sort of…

part of this is that my mom had gotten remarried and we love him and are very thankful to have him in our lives. We’re his only family. He’s our only family at this point. But it’s his house. And so, you know, whereas most people we would have sorted through everything and then had an auction or an estate sale, we have had to work around him and schlepping it and, you know,

Kathi (02:26.853)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hilary Prall (02:38.794)

my husband likes to be very efficient and not touch things three times or four times. And it was, you know, and we’ve sort of had to deal with him saying, it’s totally fine. And he has been very patient, but then he would get a wild hair and like clear out a whole section of stuff and shove it in a closet. And so it’s like, so now I have to re go through that closet. So just kind of, you know, that part of, and then she lived an hour away. So just a lot of things that made.

Kathi (02:42.853)

Right.

Kathi (03:00.261)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:07.977)

made it all just a little bit harder. It’s like, you know, couldn’t something be a little easier? So we have the bulk of it done now. The other thing is we had to go through every box because it was just, she did try to get organized several times. And so there would be stuff mixed in that shouldn’t have been and whatever. So we have the bulk of it done to the point that the rest can easily be.

Kathi (03:13.797)

Right.

Kathi (03:20.933)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:33.161)

donated or taken to auction in just one of our vehicles. We had to rent a moving truck for the big auction. And then she just had a lot of jewelry. So I have taken, I think, three loads now to a local jewelry store to have to sell the metal. She had a lot of costume, but also, I mean, it’s worth money, the gold. So I probably have one.

Kathi (03:39.429)

Yeah.

Kathi (03:44.549)

Hmm.

Kathi (03:52.869)

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (04:00.392)

maybe one more, two more loads to take of that. So just the time that it takes. So it takes all your free time. And so, you know, I would do whatever work I could during the week that I felt like doing for myself, for my own business, keeping our house running. And then, you know, we really tried on the weekends to get down there and do some work. So.

Kathi (04:08.677)

Yeah.

Kathi (04:15.973)

Yeah.

Kathi (04:23.205)

Hilary, let me ask you a question before we dive into the design and decorating side of things. I was just listening to a great person on TikTok whose mother suddenly passed away. And she said she was giving advice for any parents out there about wills and estates and trusts and things like that. It was great, really terrific advice. I would love to hear from you as somebody who is going through the thick of it.

What would your top piece of advice be for somebody like your mom? Like, is there a list she could have left? What could she have done to make this a little bit easier? We know she wasn’t gonna get herself organized, but is there something she could have done? And then what would be your top piece of advice for somebody who’s in your situation, who’s going into a hoarder’s house? Who, what?

Hilary Prall (05:10.631)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:20.677)

I would love those two pieces of advice.

Hilary Prall (05:24.966)

So I think both pieces of advice can work for both parties. So number one, we’ve talked about this a whole bunch. Thankfully, my mom left us some money to work with. There was money in the estate, but no matter what you’re doing to get rid of stuff, it costs money. Dumpsters cost money. You can take stuff to the Goodwill or whatever, but when you’re talking about a hoarder’s house,

Kathi (05:29.029)

Okay.

Kathi (05:37.765)

Okay.

Hilary Prall (05:52.485)

And I know people think about hoarders as being dirty. My mom wasn’t like that. I think she could have gone down that road had she not gotten remarried. It was just such tremendous volumes of stuff. Some of it, you know, there was mold involved and things like that. But you have to somehow get it to wherever it’s going. And you can’t. It’s not just going to be a, you know, a few loads to goodwill. Number one, they don’t want all that stuff in one trip.

Kathi (05:52.581)

Yeah.

Kathi (05:57.893)

Yeah.

Kathi (06:20.357)

Right.

Hilary Prall (06:21.509)

but you have to somehow get rid of it. Thankfully we lived close enough that it was reasonable, but if you lived out of state, I don’t know what people would do if you’re not close. I mean, so have some money set aside, I guess. If you are not the parent and you’re the person who you know you’re gonna have to deal with this, I would start maybe talking to figure out.

Kathi (06:30.021)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (06:37.029)

Yes.

Hilary Prall (06:47.492)

Where’s my local auction? Who does the state sales? Now, again, other situations, you might be able to have someone come in and do the auction there or whatever. And a lot of times with hoarders, if it’s bad, the stuff’s not salvageable. So you could call, like you can hire 1 -800 -GOT -JUNK, but maybe just come up with a game plan of some sort of how you are gonna liquidate it because it is a lot and it’s a lot of work and it’s, you know,

Kathi (07:01.125)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (07:14.373)

Mmm.

Hilary Prall (07:17.156)

Again, you don’t want to, I don’t like to ask for help. That’s my personality, but at some point we just needed some bodies to help us get stuff upstairs and not completely break our bodies and burn out. So just how you’re gonna deal with it, the finances, what that looks like. We’ve spent a lot of money just trying to get rid of stuff, which seems crazy.

Kathi (07:21.893)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:30.629)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:42.949)

It does.

Hilary Prall (07:44.611)

The other thing that I think would be helpful, luckily, like I have said, I love old stuff. I have always loved old stuff. A lot of the stuff I have now acquired that was family, I looked at at my grandma’s house when she had it. And so I would just pour through stuff. So I knew what was a lot of family stuff. My sister would have had no idea, because she doesn’t care about that stuff. I wish I would have asked or,

Kathi (07:59.973)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (08:13.282)

enforced a little bit more with my mom, please write down the history of this or who did this belong to. Because at a certain point, not that it matters, you know, like 50 years from now, I’m not going to care if my nieces keep everything that was mine. And I don’t think that our ancestors think that you should. But it is important to you know, if something’s really important or has provenance, you should

Kathi (08:18.085)

Hmm, yeah.

Kathi (08:30.597)

Right.

Kathi (08:34.405)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (08:40.546)

want to know those stories. And I did know some of it, but I wish either my mom had done more or I had asked more about it because she held on to those things so tightly that we didn’t know a lot of the stories behind them. There are things that I remember from my childhood, even from our own house that I wanted to hold on to, but I just wish I knew a little bit more of the history behind some of the stuff.

Kathi (09:02.565)

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, my mom is putting Post -it notes under things. And just to say a little bit about where she got that milk glass or whatever the thing is. And like, she is, you know, for a long time when I would go visit her, she would say, don’t throw away the milk glass. You can sell it, or you can keep it, but don’t throw it away. And I’m like, okay, mom.

Hilary Prall (09:10.241)

Okay, yeah.

Hilary Prall (09:15.905)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (09:27.36)

Yep. Yep.

Kathi (09:28.869)

I’m learning about milk glass. I promise but you know, I just want to hear I want I want everybody who is in our clutter free Listening audience to hear what Hilary has said that Your mom who I’m sure was a lovely but complicated person Left you with a task that has left you feeling alone and

Hilary Prall (09:31.904)

Yes.

Kathi (09:58.341)

I don’t think any of us would wish that upon our children. And so to hear what Hilary is saying, if there are things that you can do right now, if there are things you can get rid of right now, if there are the stories that you can tell about those items so that your child or whomever is, your nieces, your nephews, your grandkids, whomever it is, they don’t.

End up feeling alone. I think that would be list. That would be a great service that you have provided here Hilary Okay, I want to talk about more fun things. Let’s talk about fun Okay So I want you love vintage. I think a lot of our cluttery people do I think one of the things and when I say cluttery people I count myself as as one of those people so i’m not pointing any finger. Well, if i’m pointing fingers i’m pointing them back at me but

Hilary Prall (10:29.211)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:56.517)

I think we, a lot of cluttery people have a real deep appreciation for vintage. And that’s why it is hard for us to get rid of things. So how do you incorporate your love for vintage into your designs in a way that promotes a healthy clutter -free living space? Because it can be really easy to do too much or keep things just because they were old. But how do you incorporate it into a way,

that it’s not just lovable, but livable.

Hilary Prall (11:30.014)

I will say we don’t have children, so it makes it a lot easier. I think if you have little kids running around, you’re not gonna have all of this stuff. That’s just how it is. We do have three active pets, so I have to be okay if things get broken or whatever. I have a few things even right now that…

Kathi (11:32.997)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (11:38.725)

Right.

Kathi (11:46.437)

Yes.

Hilary Prall (11:53.79)

I know I need to change out just because of how we live and I’m tired of messing with it. I think that’s part of it is if you if it’s constantly bringing you angst or whatever, then reevaluate it. You know, I really try to keep our bedroom very calm, very clutter free. And sometimes it’s just the addition of one extra thing that can just that’s it. I need to I need to clear the decks. So.

Kathi (12:21.957)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (12:23.101)

I think for me, I don’t ever want people to feel like they have to be overly careful. Last week, we have a cleaning lady that comes every couple of weeks and she does a great job considering how much nonsense I have. And so just very absentmindedly, she was here and I was out talking while she was working and I was just going through and fluffing my stuff because I’m also a little OCD.

Kathi (12:28.741)

Hmm.

Kathi (12:32.773)

Yeah.

Kathi (12:37.797)

Hahaha!

Hilary Prall (12:50.076)

And she said, I’m sorry. She said, I can’t ever remember how your stuff goes back. I said, do not worry about that. That’s on me. That is for me to go through and be fidgety about. So I think just manage your expectations. I mean, do you want people to feel comfortable in your house? Then, you know, they have to be able to live with your stuff. Plenty of people. I have an Instagram friend that has the most incredible home.

Kathi (13:10.917)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (13:18.587)

and I was lucky enough to go and visit it and it is museum worthy. But also I think it’d be really hard to add anybody else to that house. So I think it does have to depend on what your, and he would say that, so I think it’s okay. But you have to be okay with whatever your situation is and what it can accommodate, I guess.

Kathi (13:23.365)

Hmm.

Kathi (13:32.357)

Mm -hmm. Yes.

Kathi (13:42.117)

I love that it’s being realistic about how you live so you can be realistic about how you design, how you bring things in and living with what you love. Guys, we’re gonna take a quick break and then when we come back, I wanna talk to Hilary about what advice she would give to somebody that she was helping with designs who struggles with clutter. We’re gonna take a quick break and then we’ll come back with that.

Hilary Prall (13:47.098)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:12.293)

Okay friends, we are back and Hilary knows our cluttery hearts. She knows our cluttery spaces. And so if you were working with a client, what advice would you give to somebody who tends towards clutter? Do you have any really practical ideas or solutions or maybe some inspiration for them?

Hilary Prall (14:27.962)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (14:33.689)

I think honestly the first thing is clear the decks a little bit. Take everything out if you’re redoing a space. If you’re unsure about something, put it in a tub and if you don’t care about it a month from now, three months from now, it can move on. It can find somewhere else to live. I also think same with clothing. If you’re tired of wearing something but you hold on to it because, I might use that, well, when you’re ready to use it,

maybe just go buy something new. Say I over the last three years have lost over 70 pounds. So I don’t need to hold on to those old clothes because I’m gonna buy something new. Life is very, very short. So I don’t think that you need to hold on to every last detail of everything. Keep the sentimental pieces. Part of…

Kathi (15:04.869)

Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (15:11.173)

Wow.

Mm -hmm. Right.

Hilary Prall (15:29.369)

Part of going through my mom’s stuff was I’ve really sifted through. So I’ve, you’ve touched every single thing. And I have an entire closet downstairs plus some overflow of family things that I’ve brought home. My sister needs to come through and go through them. And then the rest of it, I’m gonna pick the things that I really care about and the rest I’m gonna try to reach out to the historical society of where my grandma’s from and, you know, kind of liquidate some stuff that way. But, cause I…

Kathi (15:35.685)

Mmm.

Kathi (15:54.181)

yeah.

Hilary Prall (15:57.816)

They’re important things, but also I don’t need to keep them. So not everything has to be kept. Not everything in my house should be important to my nieces and nephews down the road. You know, it’s just not everything is sentimental.

Kathi (16:03.109)

Right.

Kathi (16:15.845)

Yes, and so I love that thought that yes, this is important history, but my house is not a museum. And, you know, we can take pictures. You’ve given me two ideas that I’ve never really considered auction houses and your grandmother’s local historical society. You know, is this something? Yeah. Tell me more about that.

Hilary Prall (16:38.839)

Yeah, they’re actually, yeah. So they’re, well, and this is just because I grew up going to this. There are a couple of, I think, there are always historical societies. So, I mean, they’re always looking for things. They want to have curated, you know, whatever. There’s a big event that we would go to every year. And I can specifically remember there is a whole little room or house devoted to scary old dolls, which I don’t want.

Kathi (16:47.173)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:07.173)

Mm -hmm, right.

Hilary Prall (17:07.958)

But I have two of my grandmas and I have her little baby buggy and that would be a great thing to give them. And, you know, my grandpa was a farmer down there and I mean, they, they want that stuff. They want ephemera and you know, all the things that for all intents and purposes, I will never really look at again, but I have all of this stuff. So unless I want to display it or really feel like I’m going to look at it again, I just, I don’t need that heaviness. But.

Kathi (17:19.205)

Yes.

Kathi (17:27.557)

Right.

Hilary Prall (17:37.973)

I didn’t want to make a rash decision while I was going through things and just pitch it. Because I did get rid of a few things that I kind of am like, shoot. But also, I’m not gonna let that, yeah.

Kathi (17:40.293)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:47.909)

Mm hmm. Well, that’s gonna happen with the amount of stuff you had to deal with. You’re gonna get you’re gonna get rid of a few things that, you know, maybe but we can’t let that keep us from getting rid of the things that are going to stop us from living. And, you know, when we bought this house, and you don’t know anything about my story, but we bought a house in the middle of the woods, like, and the people we bought it from,

Hilary Prall (17:54.293)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (18:06.196)

No.

Hilary Prall (18:14.58)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (18:17.893)

they left a lot of their stuff here, including an antique water stand that we love and they loved it, but they had no place for it. Their kids had no place for it. And so the agreement we left with was if I ever decide to get rid of it, I call them. And if they don’t want it, then it’s up to me to get rid of it. And I was fine with that. And another thing that they…

Hilary Prall (18:29.236)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (18:36.148)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (18:45.221)

They had this giant list of all these things that they were leaving with us, but one thing they were not leaving was an IKEA table. And we’re like, well, that’s odd. You left all this other stuff. Why are you taking the IKEA table? Come to find out this IKEA table was from the original IKEA in… Yes, it was the IKEA in Europe. And it was bought, I think, either in the 40s or 50s and shipped to the United States.

Hilary Prall (18:54.099)

Hilary Prall (19:04.339)

IKEA.

Hilary Prall (19:11.795)

Okay.

Kathi (19:14.085)

And so that’s a part of their family history. And we love that story so much, and they still sell that brand of table at IKEA. We bought that, we bought the 2019 version of it. And you can still have the story without having the object. And to be able to carry that on is great. When do you know that your passion,

Hilary Prall (19:22.322)

Okay, yeah. that’s awesome.

Hilary Prall (19:29.778)

Yeah, yeah.

Hilary Prall (19:35.09)

Absolutely.

Kathi (19:42.757)

for board games or paint by numbers has gotten out of control. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, guys, she mentioned these in the last episode. But how do you know when it’s enough?

Hilary Prall (19:55.634)

Well, I have stipulations so for the the paint by numbers I don’t want although I just bought one that doesn’t doesn’t align with this but it’s it’s so different that it’s okay, but I Don’t really like people in them. I don’t like eyes So they have to sort of fit my colors and I want them to be pretty well done You know the board games I don’t

Kathi (20:05.577)

We won’t judge you.

Kathi (20:13.125)

Mmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (20:22.417)

I have shelves that I could stack them on, but part of the display is that I’ve hung a lot of them on the wall as display. So I don’t know, is there an end to something? I would say as long as it’s not stressing you out, you’re not putting yourself in financial distress, you can still walk in your house, I suppose it’s okay.

Kathi (20:28.261)

yes.

Kathi (20:41.253)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (20:44.625)

But if you can no longer enjoy your stuff, that is for me genuinely it. I wanna look at it. I wanna look at it. I wanna enjoy it. I love my stuff, but I don’t wanna have to put it in a tote and think about it randomly. So for me, I don’t wanna store stuff. I want it out and about. And as far as like my family stuff, one thing I did wanna say is just because my mom had it or my grandma had it,

Kathi (20:44.805)

Yeah.

Kathi (20:55.461)

Yeah.

Kathi (21:00.677)

Right, right.

Hilary Prall (21:14.096)

I want to collect my own stuff. I have a whole life ahead of me. I very easily from the loss that has happened in my life could easily think, gosh, I don’t have a life left. But I have a lot of years left hopefully and I have a lot of collecting to do. So I want to have room to collect my own things. I don’t want to have to just have my mom’s stuff.

Kathi (21:16.389)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (21:28.997)

Guess.

Kathi (21:38.021)

I love that. And you said you want to enjoy your stuff, but you also want to enjoy your space. And I think that’s the perfect balance for what we’re talking about. To be able to enjoy your stuff and be able to put your, enjoy your space and to have some guidelines. I love your guidelines for your paint by numbers. It can’t have people, it can’t have I, and you said, but that you said there was an exception to that that you just bought.

Hilary Prall (21:44.431)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (21:48.399)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:54.639)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:59.759)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (22:03.695)

Yeah.

Kathi (22:04.709)

but you must have loved it so much that you were willing to break your own rule. And I think that’s the reason we have rules and guidelines to keep us kind of contained. But then we know when something is outside of that and that’s really special. Hilary, you’ve given us so much to think about. Where would you like people most to seek you out? Is it through your website, through Instagram? Where should people go find you?

Hilary Prall (22:09.295)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:14.415)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (22:29.807)

Instagram first, I hang out there a lot. I’m in stories a lot there, that’s what I love. I love to be able to connect with people that way. So I would say definitely Instagram. From there you can find me anywhere, but also if they go to my website, I have a pop -up to join my email list. I email once a week. I really try to share something there that I’m not sharing anywhere else, so it’s definitely bonus material, bonus content. And…

Kathi (22:33.797)

Yeah. Okay.

Kathi (22:42.181)

Okay.

Kathi (22:51.973)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:58.766)

Yeah, I just really, as I have walked through this, the people who have reached out to me saying, I had to go through this, I’m going through this, I’m going to have to go through this, you know, and I think just the self -realization that we can all kind of struggle with it. I’ve had a few messages that were kind of rude, you know, saying this is a mental illness, you know, but I understand. I 100 % understand and I watched my mom struggle with it.

Kathi (23:10.757)

Yeah.

Kathi (23:23.589)

Yeah. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (23:27.629)

overtly for 20 years. You know, so I would be the last person to judge anybody about it, but it would be wonderful if people could seek the help that they, that I’m assuming is out there. I know people specialize in it, but also, you know, if you’re going through it with a family member, I know that, you know, it genuinely is like drugs or alcohol. I mean, I would try to explain that to my husband. It was really hard for him to understand it.

Kathi (23:29.893)

Yeah.

Kathi (23:40.133)

Right.

Kathi (23:50.149)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (23:54.349)

And you know, I know people sometimes do have to just walk away from a situation. Luckily, I didn’t have to do that with my mom, but you have to have some boundaries and anyway, so.

Kathi (24:01.445)

Yeah.

100 % yeah, you know, lots of times with hoarders, they want you to hold on to their stuff. They want you to be a part of it. And just because one person suffers from hoarding doesn’t mean there aren’t other sufferers surrounding them. And, you know, can we acknowledge both as victims? I think that that’s a really important thing that you’re saying here. There’s more than one victim.

Hilary Prall (24:22.123)

Yes, absolutely.

Hilary Prall (24:30.123)

Absolutely.

Kathi (24:33.701)

Hilary, I love the compassion you have for your mom while also speaking the truth. Guys, she’s got tears in her eyes and as the fellow daughter of a hoarder, I feel those tears. I’m further removed than she is. She’s in the thick of it right now. So I wanna say an extra thank you for being here and sharing your story with us. Thank you so much. Okay.

Hilary Prall (24:58.475)

Absolutely, yeah. Thanks.

Kathi (25:01.637)

Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutterfree Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#653 Say Goodbye to Insomnia: How Decluttering Can Reboot Your Rest

Hey there, friend! In this eye opening episode of Clutter-Free Academy, join Kathi Lipp as she speaks with Dr. Vicki Kasper to explore the powerful and surprising link between clutter and sleep. They discuss the science behind rest, how a clutter-free environment...

#652 The Clutter Free Lifestyle: 10 Habits That Actually Work

Hey there, friend! In this encouraging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo reveal the top 10 habits they've developed since embracing a clutter-free lifestyle. This candid conversation offers listeners practical insights into how living...

#651 10 Surprising Things I No Longer Do as a Clutter-Free Mom

Hey there, friend! In this compelling episode of Clutter-Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo explore the significant and often surprising habits they've relinquished to maintain a clutter-free lifestyle. Listeners will discover insights and practical advice...

www.instagram.com/hilaryprall

#628 How to Curate Your Life: The Way to Love Things Without Drowning in Them

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 30, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

628 How to Curate Your Life:

The Way to Love Things Without Drowning in Them

Hey there, friends! Have you ever struggled with finding the balance between loving vintage and clutter?

In this enlightening episode of Clutter Free Academy, host Kathi Lipp welcomes designer and content creator Hilary Prall. Kathi and Hilary explore the challenges of breaking free from generational clutter habits and finding a balance between loving vintage items and maintaining an organized home. As the daughter of a hoarder, Hilary offers valuable insights on curating spaces, letting go of sentimental items, and developing strategies to resist hoarding tendencies.

Listeners will discover:

How to set clear goals
How to understand personal limits when it comes to collecting
The importance of displaying and enjoying items rather than storing them away

This episode offers a unique perspective on the intersection of design, organization, and personal growth, making it a must-listen for anyone struggling with clutter or seeking to create a more intentional living space.

Click here to be notified when Part 2 of this interview with Hilary Prall is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.hilaryprall.com

www.hilaryprall.com/blog

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

How do you balance your love for vintage items with maintaining a clutter-free space?

Share in the comments!

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Meet Our Guest

Hilary Prall

Hilary Prall is the creative mind behind Hilary Prall Blog, an online destination for vibrant, eclectic interior design. Hilary’s passion is creating unique, beautiful spaces that work for real-life budgets. Through her website and digital channels, she shares her colorful home design, DIY ideas, and a penchant for repurposing thrifted items with inspo-seekers all over.

Hilary’s design brightens the feeds of almost 40k fans on Instagram and Facebook. She has been featured regularly on Des Moines NBC affiliate WHO-TV, home retailer blogs, and several online magazines. She offers an array of affordable digital products that provide design help with the click of a mouse.

Before starting Hilary Prall Blog in 2015, Hilary spent years at a job that wasn’t her true calling. That experience, though, is what drives her enthusiasm for encouraging others to pursue their dreams and supporting other entrepreneurs.

A life that blends work, creative interests, and family provides ongoing inspiration as Hilary and husband Jason (with support from Cooper the corgi and Sheldon + Howard the cats) turn the transformation of their builder-grade ranch home into endless sources of design ideas. When she’s not tinkering at home, the next best bets are thrifting, road-tripping, trying a locally-owned restaurant, or enjoying the outdoors.

Visit her at www.hilaryprall.com.

Transcript

Kathi (00:01.669)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our heart is to help you live with less clutter and more life. And today, I think this is gonna be a turning point episode for some of you. If you live with a hoarder,

If you grew up with a hoarder, if you have a hoarder in your extended family, today’s episode is for you. As many of you know, I grew up with a hoarder. Tanya, who is our most frequent co -host on here, also grew up with a hoarder. And I’ve got a new friend, guys. This is Hilary Prall. She is the creative mind behind Hilary Prall Vlog. It’s an online play. By the way, the website is gorgeous.

She had it’s it’s a vibrant like eclectic vibe I don’t even know how else to put it and if you guys are not seeing if you’re if you’re not watching this you’re just hearing this if You could just see Hillary’s background, you’d know what I was talking about, but we’re gonna put all the links in there She has featured regularly on the Des Moines NBC affiliate who TV She she’s all over the place on home retail block. So like I

Guys, she’s a designer. She’s got incredible style, but she has this part of her story that we’re going to dive deep into today. Hillary, welcome to the podcast.

Hilary Prall (01:38.988)

Hello, thank you for having me.

Kathi (01:41.125)

Well, I’m so excited because to Neil who is on my team introduced us and she she’s like you have to have Hillary on your podcast and I said say less and then I started to dig into what you’re all about. So tell us tell us what you’re about your day job. Let’s just start there. What’s your day job?

Hilary Prall (01:58.603)

Okay, yeah. My day job is basically content creation, digital content creation. And I feel like sort of part of where I am with my business ties into what we’ll talk about today with my mom, Justin. Things have sort of come to a little bit of a stall over the last couple of years working through things with my mom’s estate. But looking really forward to getting back on track of…

creating content and building a brand of business. I started out, I worked in retail for 20 years and I loved that, but it was nothing that I intended to do for so long. And I got started working with real estate agents and just local people doing some decorating and staging. Finally left my nine to five and pursued that full time.

Kathi (02:34.341)

you

Kathi (02:38.565)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (02:53.386)

as well as creating content online. And a couple of years ago, I thought, I can’t do both of these things to their fullest capacity. That’s not my personality. Like we talked about to Neil being able to do all the things. I am not able to do all the things. So I sort of pulled back from the decorating end and I could always go back to that. Not that I think that I will, but I wanted to see if I could harness what the internet had to offer for creating content, encouraging people.

Kathi (02:59.621)

Right?

Kathi (03:06.437)

Hehehe.

Kathi (03:19.589)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:22.569)

inspiring them. That’s truly what I enjoy doing. I think we all have so many shared experiences that it’s hard to connect sometimes with the right people and find people who are like us, who share our stories. And so that is a big part of what I do in my space. I am very real. I do share all the good things and all the bad things. So.

Kathi (03:36.164)

Yeah.

Kathi (03:46.757)

Yeah, I started following her on Instagram and she’s a good follow you guys. She really is very down to earth and realistic but also inspirational which is kind of a hard line to walk but this is why I really wanted to talk to you was because I think you have the life that many of us who feel like we’re drowning in clutter. Your life online, while it looks real, it also looks beautiful.

Hilary Prall (03:51.049)

Hehehe.

Kathi (04:16.549)

And I think that’s what we want, but so many of us have the story of either we were raised by a hoarder or maybe we have those tendencies ourselves and we just feel like there is no hope for us. And when I heard about your journey with your mom, I wanted to dig a little deeper. So your mom would be considered a hoarder?

Hilary Prall (04:41.256)

Yes, I think for all intents and purposes she would. I mean, it’s not, I don’t know the legal definition of what a hoarder is. So some, she, I would say she always had the tendency. She grew up in a family that she never felt like they had anything nice. You know, her parents were raised during the depression. So, you know, you definitely may do and there’s nothing wrong with that. But along with that came some really,

Kathi (04:46.053)

Right.

Kathi (04:54.437)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:02.629)

Yeah.

Right.

Hilary Prall (05:09.671)

tough things as well. And I know that even people from that generation took that and just ran with it to the nth degree. So I think, I think, you know, even early in my parents’ marriage, they didn’t have the finances probably that she would have wanted. And so she couldn’t buy everything that she wanted. And my dad helped her to keep that in check to some degree. But when he passed away in 2004, it was just like, it,

Kathi (05:30.245)

Right?

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (05:39.622)

I just felt like it just happened instantly, but it definitely had different waves of how it happened. It looked like her going to Target and shopping the clearance end caps and then, you know, whatever was on clearance, it was always, it wasn’t having something nice. It wasn’t like she went and bought one diamond ring. It was, you know, a hundred junky things.

Kathi (05:52.005)

Right.

Kathi (06:04.933)

Right.

Hilary Prall (06:05.829)

it was just to fill that void. She got really into home shopping network. I think just finding that connection with somebody. And then she got into thrifting, which we had grown up going to garage sales, but we didn’t really go to the thrift store. That wasn’t something that was like normal to us, but she really got into that Facebook marketplace, you know, whatever it was, wherever she could get a deal and she would drag stuff home. So,

Kathi (06:10.245)

Hmm.

Kathi (06:17.701)

wow.

Kathi (06:22.341)

Yeah.

Kathi (06:31.429)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (06:34.949)

The first sort of round of it was she ended up selling our childhood home to my sister and my brother -in -law on contract. So she had to clear out to move and then she moved into a townhouse and…

Part of, she filled it, obviously. But also during that time she was doing a lot of hiding. So she had a couple of relationships that she wasn’t totally honest with us about and was just really in hiding. I can count on two hands the number of times I was in that house. And every time I went there it was fuller and fuller and…

Kathi (06:55.493)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:05.637)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (07:12.261)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (07:18.34)

you know, there would be things like my wanted my childhood bedroom set and she couldn’t let go of that. That was hers. And just, I mean, she so I mean, it definitely was. I think that is a part of being a hoarder is everything is yours. You’re just gripping onto it so tightly. So she she quite filled that house and it was just a really big source of contention. From there, she did meet someone and.

Kathi (07:25.765)

Hmm.

Kathi (07:31.813)

Yeah. Right.

Hilary Prall (07:46.883)

was getting remarried in 2013 and we’re very happy and we were very honest with him. This is, you’re getting yourself into something here, but I don’t think you couldn’t, unless you’ve seen it or been involved in it, you can’t wrap your head around it. So we were able to get her moved from that house finally. She kept the house even after she got married for a couple of years, but then it was like, this is silly.

Kathi (07:55.557)

Right.

Kathi (08:00.261)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (08:13.125)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (08:13.155)

But that meant she filled two storage units. She filled his giant Morton building. She, you know, started filling his basement and then just continued. So it was a big issue within their marriage as well.

Kathi (08:27.877)

So first of all, it is just so heartbreaking because hoarders and it does, I mean, again, I’m not a clinical psychologist, but it does sound like she has the classic symptoms of hoarding. Mom, why are you keeping this? And there’s not really a good explanation, but to take it from her would be devastating.

Hilary Prall (08:41.953)

absolutely.

Hilary Prall (08:53.633)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (08:53.989)

and the buying things that they don’t need and the hiding and the anger at anybody trying to change anything or judge anything. And so it does sound like she has some of the classic hallmarks of hoarding. And there’s not a lot that family can do. There just isn’t. So part of my question is,

Hilary Prall (09:18.177)

No.

Kathi (09:23.877)

Why do you think that you did not go in the same direction? Why do you think or did you did you like part of my story is my dad was a hoarder and I started to hang on to too much stuff. And then I got to a point where it’s like, no, I can’t live like this. I can’t be, you know, for me, it was clutter. It wasn’t hoarding, but I could definitely see the tendencies in my life. So where did you fall on that scale?

Hilary Prall (09:28.992)

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (09:37.248)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (09:51.072)

Sure, I mean I definitely have the tendencies. I mean, you know, and I love vintage, I love old things. So it’s been difficult going through my mom’s stuff because she kept, my grandma came out of, you know, the Victorian era where you did literally keep everything, you know, and then she was in the depression. And so she kept not only like sentimental things but,

Kathi (09:54.565)

Yeah.

Kathi (09:58.245)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:09.829)

Right.

Hilary Prall (10:19.935)

useful things. And so when she passed away, my mom, her siblings came and they took, you know, the few things that they wanted. And then literally, I think she hauled everything else home. So in having to go through all of my mom’s stuff, you know, there’s also a lot of family stuff and it’s hard to, it’s hard to decide because I love old things. It’s not just that it was family stuff, but it’s old stuff. So I feel like it has meaning. Like I don’t want to just see it.

Kathi (10:21.143)

Right.

Kathi (10:45.765)

Right.

Hilary Prall (10:49.151)

go in a dumpster somewhere or whatever. I think the difference comes in that because I’ve had to deal with this, a lot of things have lost sentimentality. Definitely for my sister. She couldn’t care less about most things. I go through seasons. I’ve been taking things to auction myself. So part of how my business started was buying and reselling vintage. So it’s definitely in my

Kathi (10:59.045)

Mmm.

Kathi (11:03.781)

Yeah.

Kathi (11:16.325)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (11:18.974)

in my DNA and I would say anybody who buys and sells vintage, it’s a really hard thing to stop. So it just is and you have to, there’s nothing wrong with it, but when it starts to cause you stress is when, that’s when it bothers my husband. Okay, it’s stressing you out, you’re causing yourself stress.

Kathi (11:20.293)

Right.

Kathi (11:26.373)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi (11:37.125)

Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (11:42.558)

I have one room in our basement left that I’m working through, but I like to think that I don’t cling to things like she did. I’m willing to get rid of them. I try to give things to people who would enjoy them. I can see that it’s just stuff. So…

Kathi (11:50.949)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:00.681)

So we’re gonna take a quick break and when we come back I want to know how did you get to that point of knowing I love I really you know, I enjoy this I can appreciate it I may even love it, but I can’t keep everything so I would love to hear some of your thought process behind that and how you got to that point in your journey because as a designer as a decorator I

I bet you could imagine a use for almost anything and I would love to hear how you’re able to curate what you’re deciding to keep and what you’re giving away. So we will take a quick break and come right back.

Hey guys, we are back with Hilary Prall, who is a designer, a decorator, an online content creator, influencer, and daughter of a hoarder. And so we were just discussing, Hilary, how are you able to keep from keeping all the things?

Hilary Prall (13:06.587)

Number one, I try to keep what my goals are in mind. We have a goal of moving from our house eventually and moving to a town that we really love. And so the thought of having to move all of this stuff, we moved from a house that was half the size of our house now when we bought this house in 2018. And at that time I got rid of a lot of stuff. I collected…

Kathi (13:12.901)

Hmm.

Kathi (13:23.397)

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (13:35.355)

vintage Pyrex and I had so much you couldn’t imagine it. But I got rid of a lot because I thought I’m gonna have nowhere to put it and I don’t want to move it. So I do have that goal of eventually you know us downsizing. I don’t want to take care of a big house. It’s just the two of us and I just don’t want that to fill my mind and my space. I have gotten better in creating content. I do

Kathi (13:51.269)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (14:04.346)

some DIYs and things like that. So I would accumulate things at the thrift store that I think, this would be a good project or whatever. I can go to the thrift store any day of the week and find a project to do. So I’ve tried to keep that in mind that I don’t need to keep a stash of, unless it’s something really unique and cool, I don’t need to have a stash of things like that. I’m constantly getting rid of. So I think that’s important. That is, it’s an ever evolving door here, whether I’m giving it to friends or,

Kathi (14:14.853)

Hmm.

Kathi (14:21.573)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (14:34.298)

giving it to the thrift store, selling it, whatever that looks like. I do think you have to get over the part that you spent money on it. You can nickel and dime yourself to death. If it’s a really something that’s valuable, sell it. I have discovered it’s really easy to take stuff to our local auction house. So I can set up an appointment and just take the load and then they, whatever’s left, they liquidate. I don’t have to worry about it.

Kathi (14:42.245)

Yes, yes.

Hilary Prall (15:03.577)

So for me, that has become the best option for getting rid of a lot of stuff that to me has value. It’s not just garbage.

Kathi (15:10.949)

I think it’s great that you have found your path of least resistance and for you it’s the auction house and I think we all need to figure that out. Is it straight donation? Is it selling it on Facebook or Marketplace? What is it for you? And get really good at that and rinse and repeat, absolutely.

Hilary Prall (15:20.097)

Yeah. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (15:33.98)

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s, you know, I understand the guilt is there. So, okay, what does that do for you? You know, I mean, learn from it is all you can do. You know, maybe set a financial goal of something else that you would really enjoy and then, you know, sell your stuff or don’t buy new stuff.

Kathi (15:44.613)

Right, yes.

Hilary Prall (15:56.248)

Unfortunately, I probably would make a lot of environmentalists cry because I’m not doing a lot of recycling or you know, whatever. It just has to go. I think if you get that into your head, get rid of it. Just get rid of it. Don’t, you know, you’re not saving the planet in this one in this one moment. So I don’t, you know, one thing that my mom had was she would save. She had tons of medical.

Kathi (16:03.205)

Yeah.

Kathi (16:17.157)

Right.

Hilary Prall (16:24.599)

stuff that would come, whether it was a bill or insurance or whatever, and they always have that blank sheet of paper on the front of the back, and she would save it as scratch paper. She had more scratch paper than any one person could ever use, and so going through her stuff, I was like, gosh, I’m just gonna throw away all this scratch paper. It’s like, yes, just get rid of it, burn it, whatever.

Kathi (16:25.957)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (16:36.933)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (16:44.045)

Yeah. You know, I think, and I really do believe this is true, the best way for us to make an environmental impact is to choose who we’re buying from and what we’re buying. And instead of on the back end, once we already have the stuff and having to make those decisions. And we recycle, we bring out a big tub of recycling every single.

Hilary Prall (17:00.85)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:12.805)

But our community is set up for it and not all communities are. And so do what you can, but really if your biggest concern is the environment, it’s the not purchasing in the first place.

Hilary Prall (17:16.47)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (17:27.765)

Absolutely, and I would I would go a little bit further and say, you know, there’s even a new trend to like

I would say almost glamorize the reusable or the whatever. And so it’s almost like there’s an encouragement to like, okay, I have this bottle, but here’s this other bottle that’s really biodegradable and whatever. So you better throw away this bottle and go buy the other bottle. No, that’s no, you know, so then, but probably what would happen is you’d end up with like five of the bottles or whatever.

Kathi (17:42.501)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:52.197)

Right.

Kathi (17:56.549)

Yeah, it makes no sense.

Hilary Prall (18:05.396)

One thing my husband and I have done is just tried to focus on buying the best of whatever we’re buying. Buy at your top dollar. So hopefully it lasts and hopefully you’re just getting what you want. I think a big part of how hoarding can come about is that you feel like you’re never actually getting what you want. It’s the same with food addiction or whatever. You’re just not feeling fulfilled in it. So.

Kathi (18:11.045)

Mm. Right.

Yes.

Kathi (18:26.533)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, yeah. Right. Because that target clearance purchase fills a need in the moment, but it doesn’t fill a long -term need. It fills that high of buying something. And by the way, I totally resonate with that high of buying something. But for me, it could be the high of buying a Costco chicken. Like, there, I…

Hilary Prall (18:40.468)

Mm -hmm. nope.

Kathi (18:58.213)

To me, it’s the same thing. And it’s like, okay, but also I’m learning to say, you know what, there’s also a thrill in using what I have. There’s also a thrill in feeling like I’m being wise and clever and smart with what I actually have. So how do you, what’s the thing that you say to yourself when you are purchasing something or when you’re considering purchasing something?

How what you know from vintage items to maybe you know craft supply whatever that is Do you have like? This is why i’m buying it. Do you have questions you ask yourself? Do you have something? What’s that thought process so that you are not acquiring and by the way? I love what you said about keeping the end goal in mind If the end goal is to move if the end goal is to enjoy your house

Hilary Prall (19:50.994)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (19:57.17)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (19:57.477)

and not feel overstuffed. If your end goal is to save up for a vacation, those end goals do not align with buying the clearance stuff at Target 99 % of the time. So I love that. So I would love to know, how do you keep that end goal in mind? What do you say to yourself when you’re considering a purchase?

Hilary Prall (20:10.641)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (20:19.249)

Well, I need to do better about it. I feel like I go in shifts. So one thing that I try…

Kathi (20:22.021)

We all do.

Hilary Prall (20:30.129)

I’ll phrase it this way. One thing that I do try to do is I am a very out of sight, out of mind person. So that means if my stuff isn’t out on display for me to enjoy, I don’t even care about it. So I think that is a little bit different than hoarders because they can pinpoint exactly where everything is and they’re very still concerned with it.

Kathi (20:47.205)

Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Hilary Prall (20:54.192)

That doesn’t mean I don’t have stuff still in my house that I’m not using or enjoying, but that’s out of laziness or whatever. But I try to keep that in focus. If I’m not using certain things, they can go by the wayside. So as I bring things in, can I take something out that is similar or that I’m not loving anymore? You know, I have a basement that I love very different styles of vintage. So our basement is like,

Kathi (21:14.853)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:24.016)

bright and colorful and has vintage board games and things like that. I’ve reached my capacity of vintage board games, I think, unless there’s just something that’s outstanding. So I think knowing, I mean, where’s the end? What’s your end? What’s the limit? Because I know that I want to be able to display these things. It’s not that I want to put them in a room for a later date.

Kathi (21:32.773)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (21:40.389)

Right.

Hilary Prall (21:49.807)

I have an entire wall filled with vintage paint by numbers. I don’t have any more room for paint by numbers. So unless one is just fabulous, there’s no reason for me to bring that home. So curation, I have a lot of stuff, but I think for the most part, I know when things are getting out of hand because stuff starts to feel wonky or off kilter or too crowded.

Kathi (22:01.605)

Mmm. I love that. It’s curation. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:17.871)

I think for the most part I still have visual space around everything. A lot of stacks and things like that, but I also know that I really don’t hold tightly to anything. If someone came in and said, Hillary, you need to sell all this stuff, great, that’s totally fine. But I know that telling that to my mom, that wouldn’t have mattered. Yeah.

Kathi (22:17.925)

Mm.

Kathi (22:22.213)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (22:42.725)

No, it would have been a very different thing. I love where you have come from in your journey to this because I think that one of the things that us cluttery people know, I think this is a really good sign of health, that we can be extremists sometimes. Either I’m a hoarder or a minimalist. And I think that there is a happy place. As a cluttery person, I enjoy stuff.

Hilary Prall (23:06.094)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:12.709)

I really do, but I also know that too much stuff will really weigh me down. So there’s a sweet spot and it sounds like in your business, in your personal kind of thinking around stuff, you have found that sweet spot of I’m not a hoarder, I’m not a minimalist, I’m Hillary, I have found.

Hilary Prall (23:12.878)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (23:40.589)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:41.765)

what works for me and I can feel when I want something new in my house, I can also feel when there’s too much in my house and to let that guide you. I think that that’s really, really amazing. Hillary, this has been such a great conversation. I would love to bring you back and talk a little bit more about as somebody who understands clutter, as somebody who has lived with a hoarder and doesn’t want to be on that end of it,

but also somebody who makes their living by creating spaces that they really, really love and other people love. How do we find that intersection? So if you’d be willing to come back, I would love to have that discussion with you. Okay, guys, I’m gonna put all of Hillary’s links and where to find her. Guys, go follow her on Instagram. She, just looking at her board, you’re…

Hilary Prall (24:25.259)

Absolutely.

Kathi (24:40.741)

You’re gonna be inspired, you’re gonna be encouraged, and you’re gonna know she’s one of us, so it’s okay. That she is not judging you for not having all of it together because we’re all works in progress. You guys have been listening to Clutter -Free Academy, I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter -free life you’ve always wanted to.

#653 Say Goodbye to Insomnia: How Decluttering Can Reboot Your Rest

Hey there, friend! In this eye opening episode of Clutter-Free Academy, join Kathi Lipp as she speaks with Dr. Vicki Kasper to explore the powerful and surprising link between clutter and sleep. They discuss the science behind rest, how a clutter-free environment...

#652 The Clutter Free Lifestyle: 10 Habits That Actually Work

Hey there, friend! In this encouraging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo reveal the top 10 habits they've developed since embracing a clutter-free lifestyle. This candid conversation offers listeners practical insights into how living...

#651 10 Surprising Things I No Longer Do as a Clutter-Free Mom

Hey there, friend! In this compelling episode of Clutter-Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo explore the significant and often surprising habits they've relinquished to maintain a clutter-free lifestyle. Listeners will discover insights and practical advice...

www.facebook.com/donnajonesspeak

#627 Creating a Win-Win Approach to Decluttering Conflicts in Your Home

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 23, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

627 Creating a Win-Win Approach to Decluttering Conflicts in Your Home

Are you tired of the constant battles over stuff in your home?

Well, buckle up, because in this episode, we’re diving deep into the world of decluttering conflicts. In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, host Kathi Lipp welcomes guest Donna Jones, author of “Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life” and podcast host of “That’s Just What I Needed.” The discussion centers around the intersection of decluttering and conflict resolution within relationships. You’ll be encouraged to approach decluttering conflicts with empathy, clear communication, and a focus on mutual solutions.

Listeners will discover:

How possessions often become a source of conflict, especially between generations
How to start difficult conversations about possessions and space in a healthy way
The importance of finding win-win solutions in conflicts over clutter

Throughout the episode, Kathi and Donna emphasize that while conflict can’t be avoided, it can be handled in healthy ways that lead to more peaceful lives and homes.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.donnajones.org

Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life by Donna Jones

www.instagram.com/donnaajones

Find Donna Jones’s “That’s Just What I Needed Podcast” on Apple, Spotify, or here.

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

How does emotional attachment to possessions contribute to conflicts in your relationships?

Share in the comments!

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Meet Our Guest

Donna Jones

Donna is a national speaker, author, host of the “That’s Just What I Needed” podcast and self-described Bible explainer who loves her God, her family, a strong cup of coffee and really cute shoes. Her latest book is Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life. Visit her at www.donnajones.org.

Transcript

Well, hey, friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life.

And guys, I’ve got a new friend to introduce us to. I was just on her podcast. We had a blast and I knew when I heard the title of her new book, she needed to come be with our clutter free people. This is Donna Jones. She is a national speaker. She’s the podcast host of That’s Just What I Needed. And she is the author of Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life. Donna, welcome to the podcast.

Donna Jones (00:52.494)

thank you so much for having me, Kathi. This is fun.

Kathi (00:56.839)

Well, you know, it’s so interesting because I was just talking with my pastor the other day and we were talking about different stages in life and what I was telling him was for my listeners over 50, probably one of the most frequent questions I have is how do I pass this stuff on down to my kids?

And probably the most frequent question I get from people under the age of 40 is, how do I tell my parents I don’t want their stuff? And…

Donna Jones (01:30.318)

areas.

Kathi (01:31.335)

That is a situation that is ripe for conflict It’s so funny because I just had this conversation with my mom the other day We are going there and we’re sifting through some of her stuff and she said do you want to contact Kimberly? Who’s my daughter or do you want me to to ask her if she wants your wedding album and Let’s just be clear. This is the wedding album from me and her father not my current husband

because I am remarried. I’m like, mom, she doesn’t want it. And she goes, well, how do you know? And I said, because she doesn’t want anything. And she really doesn’t want the album. And by the way, I’ve asked her if she wanted any of the pictures. She’s like, no, I’m good. I would rather remember you guys separately than together. I’m like, fair enough. I agree with that. But there is so much drama over stuff. And.

Donna Jones (02:01.038)

No.

Donna Jones (02:27.502)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Kathi (02:30.343)

There are just, there’s so many scenarios where I believe you should want this stuff. And if you don’t want this stuff, what does that say about our relationship? Or you’re giving away the item that I gave you and what does that say about you and me? Or my kids thinking I should be able to hang on to their stuff for eternity. And there’s so much conflict.

over this stuff that is in our lives? And why do you think that possessions are such a hot topic? Or do you? Maybe you don’t agree with that.

Donna Jones (03:07.406)

no one. Yeah, no, no, no, I actually do. Well, to be honest with you, Kathi, almost anything can become a fair game for conflict. And so possessions fall into that category. And you know, it’s funny knowing I was going to come on your podcast, knowing that you’re clutter fleet, clutter free community here. I thought when we are embroiled in conflict, it clutters our mind.

Kathi (03:16.847)

Right.

Donna Jones (03:33.934)

It clutters our soul. I mean, the last thing we’re feeling is peaceful because we are replaying the conflict over and over and over. You know, we’re thinking about what he said, what she said, what we said, what we wish we said. You know, we’re going around, we’re talking about with our husband, with our girlfriend, with our mother. It’s just so consuming. Our brain is cluttered when we don’t know how to handle conflict well.

Kathi (03:34.311)

Yes. Yes.

Kathi (03:39.289)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (03:48.391)

Yes.

Kathi (03:55.815)

Yes.

Donna Jones (04:01.934)

So it’s just so, it’s so important.

Kathi (04:02.215)

100 % yes. I think of clutter as encumberment and conflict can often feel like encumberment but the commonality between stuff and conflict is both are necessary to a certain extent, aren’t they?

Donna Jones (04:08.192)

Yeah, I think perfect. Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (04:23.438)

Yes, yes. Okay, you’re exactly right because we have to have stuff, right, to live. And conflict is, if I could have written a book that was how to get rid of conflict from now into eternity, that’s time me up, right? But that’s not feasible. So thus, healthy conflict, peaceful life. We need to know how to deal with conflict in a healthy way, just like we need to know how to handle possessions.

Kathi (04:29.991)

Yes, right.

Kathi (04:37.671)

Girl, sign me up. Right.

Kathi (04:46.823)

Yes.

Donna Jones (04:52.782)

in a healthy way. And so we use our possessions, we don’t let our possessions use us. In the same way we use our conflict to work for us, we don’t let our conflict work against us, which is frankly what too many of us do. Because we just don’t know how, how do I handle this conflict? So to your point about the stuff and that people over 50,

Kathi (04:53.159)

Mmm, yes.

Kathi (05:13.959)

Yeah.

Donna Jones (05:19.342)

you know, how do I pass this down and the people under 50, how do I tell my parents I don’t want it? That goes to the way we view things. And Kathi, one of the things that I like to say that I really think is true is the way we view things determines the way we do things.

Kathi (05:28.551)

you

Kathi (05:38.823)

Okay, so unpack that for me.

Donna Jones (05:40.718)

Okay, so let me, I’m going to relate that to possessions first, then I’m going to relate that to conflict. So, because I know your audience is all about the possessions, the clutter. So the way you view a certain item, like let’s just go back to your mother and your wedding album. In her mind, she’s viewing it that way. That was a special moment. That was a milestone. So the way she viewed it is going to determine what she does with that. So how you view things determines how you do things.

Kathi (05:45.991)

Okay.

Kathi (05:51.207)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:57.671)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:02.055)

Right.

Kathi (06:09.271)

Yeah. Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (06:10.67)

right? Your daughter views that as like, that’s just a reminder of what I don’t want to remember. So then that determines what she does with it, right? So if we can understand in terms of conflict, that one of the reasons we have conflict is because we’re viewing things a little bit differently. And we tend to assume that people just view things the way we view things.

Kathi (06:16.711)

Right.

Yes. Mmm, yes.

Kathi (06:33.927)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (06:39.982)

that this particular possession is as important to me as it is to you. And that’s not always the case. Or the fact that the house is neat is as important to me as is important to you. Or the fact that there’s a lot of clutter that’s no big deal, it goes on and on and on and on and on, right? So, which is why we have conflict with our kids over a messy room. What we define as we view it is, we tell our teenager, clean up your room.

Kathi (06:40.071)

Right.

Kathi (06:46.279)

Yes.

Kathi (06:53.223)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:57.447)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (07:03.912)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (07:10.382)

And we walk in and we’re like, are you kidding me? Like, okay, yeah, they pulled up their duvet and it’s not on the floor anymore, but the trash is still overflowing in there. There’s water bottles sitting around on the counter or whatever. And we’re like, this is not clean to me. So because the way we view things is you determining the way we do things and they’re viewing it differently. So.

Kathi (07:14.247)

Right.

Kathi (07:20.359)

Mm -hmm Right

Kathi (07:34.567)

Right.

Donna Jones (07:39.982)

You gotta talk about the way you view things.

Kathi (07:42.535)

Yeah, so let’s talk about this in the area of people you actually live with. So for me, that’s my husband. And now part -time, we live with my mom because we’re helping her deal with some stuff. And so how do you deal with the fact that there’s an emotional attachment? Or in Clutterfree, we talk about fear, guilt, and shame. Fear.

but what if I need that item someday? Guilt, so -and -so gave it to me, so I need to keep it for the rest of my life, and shame, I spent so much money on it, and if I give it away or throw it away, it just means I’m a wasteful person. And so we have these hangups, but our roommate, whomever that is, a spouse, a child, a parent, an actual roommate that you’re,

Living in the same space with doesn’t have that same emotional attachment to it How do you come to a place where you can discuss that? Maybe there’s some conflict or you know, is there a way to avoid the conflict when you’re discussing it or how do you get to the other side?

Donna Jones (08:45.582)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (09:00.238)

Yeah, that’s such a good question. And first of all, your listeners are ahead of the game because they know the three root causes. So they can assess themselves, okay, why is this important to me? But because they know the three root causes, they also have insight into what’s going on in the brain of the other person. So they can go, you know, and you don’t even have to say this to the other person. I wonder if that’s fear. I wonder if that’s shame. I wonder, you know, you can kind of, which is helps you.

Kathi (09:05.927)

Mmm.

Yes.

Kathi (09:13.191)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (09:19.559)

Yes.

Kathi (09:25.607)

Mm, right.

Donna Jones (09:29.966)

understand and understanding is one of the biggest keys to being able to resolve conflict when you understand another person’s perspective. So your listeners are already, you know, three steps ahead of most people. You do, you do. So I would say as you know, as you are, let’s say, trying to declutter some things, really talk about it.

Kathi (09:33.959)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (09:41.191)

We’ve got some smarties. We really do. Yes.

Donna Jones (09:57.326)

and just talk about, hey, what do you think about this? One of the things that, it’s even on my website, actually, Kathi, because I get this question so often, how do you start a hard conversation in a healthy way? And so sometimes when you’re working through clutter, you’re working through stuff, you’re working through, you almost wanna avoid it because you think, I don’t want this to be a big blow up, right?

Kathi (10:10.695)

Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (10:26.215)

Right.

Donna Jones (10:27.118)

So you need to know, okay, how do I even start this so that this conversation goes well, so the other person doesn’t get defensive, I still feel heard, and it doesn’t become a big conflict. So one of the things that I like to say is so helpful is that you start with a question. So most of us tend to start with our perspective, right?

Kathi (10:37.959)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Kathi (10:56.199)

Right, okay?

Donna Jones (10:56.878)

However, if you start with a question and you let the other person go first, then you find information about the way the person is thinking, feeling, you know, processing that you wouldn’t know otherwise. And it helps you know what to say next. Because now you’ve got this piece of information about this person and their perspective that you didn’t have before. And then number two, when they go first,

Kathi (11:03.783)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:24.487)

Right.

Donna Jones (11:26.99)

they feel like you’re automatically on their side and the defenses go down. So it’s a win -win. So you might say some, you know, let’s just say you’re cleaning out the garage with your spouse and you hold up some item that you think, I cannot believe that my husband still has this ridiculous hobby thing that he hasn’t done in 15 years, right? And…

Kathi (11:30.439)

Hmm, okay.

Kathi (11:37.255)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (11:46.959)

Right.

Kathi (11:53.031)

Right. Hey, let’s just use, for example, a guitar, which is just coming off the top of my head that I’ve seen, not that I have any, yes, but if you were going to give somebody a script, what would that script be? Would you ask questions about like, why is this important to you? What are your future plans? Yeah.

Donna Jones (12:02.19)

you have any?

In association with them. What would that script look like?

Donna Jones (12:19.118)

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I would say, okay, here’s what you don’t do. And then here’s what you do do. So you don’t go, you don’t hold it up and go, are you kidding me? We still have this. I thought we got, you know, gave this away five years ago. You never use this. This is definitely going to goodwill, right? So you don’t say stuff like that. Because of course the other person is going to get defensive and honestly, Kathi, even if they didn’t really want it, just by the fact that we said it that way, now they’re going to want it.

Kathi (12:24.167)

Okay.

Kathi (12:28.295)

Right. Yeah.

Yes.

Kathi (12:44.455)

Yeah.

Kathi (12:48.743)

Right, dig their heels in. Yes.

Donna Jones (12:48.878)

So we shot ourselves in the foot, right? So instead you hold up the guitar and you go, I forgot we had this. What do you think about this item? Should we give this away? What do you think about this? And we let the other person say, and let’s just say they say, no, I want to keep that. Then the next question would be, okay, well, tell me why you want to keep that.

Well, you know, the sentimental value, you know, whatever. Okay. Well, where would, where do you think it would, we should keep that so that it doesn’t clutter up our garage. So we keep, you know, asking these questions and the other, you’ll either find a solution about where it goes or the other person may even come to the conclusion like, you know what? I don’t really need that after all. But it’s kind of.

Kathi (13:27.783)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (13:36.135)

Right.

Kathi (13:42.215)

Yeah.

Donna Jones (13:44.046)

become a win -win and you haven’t gotten to fight over your stuff.

Kathi (13:47.079)

Yeah, I also am a big believer in whatever space I’ve allotted to myself that I don’t have to explain this to you. I allot to my partner. And so, you know, whether it’s a gorilla rack or a shelf on a gorilla rack, there are just some things that are hard to get rid of. Like I have a dress in there that I’ve literally never worn and.

Donna Jones (14:00.878)

Okay, yeah.

Donna Jones (14:08.558)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:15.495)

Roger does not care about it by the way, but I feel stupid that I’m keeping it, because I keep on thinking there’s got to be a way, I love this dress, I love it, but it just is a funky dress, and I tried it on, and I tried it on, and I’m like, hey, that looks cute, and then I got home, and I’m like, what was I thinking? And I bought it out of state, and so if Roger’s not gonna give me,

You know push back on this ridiculous dress that I bought maybe I need to leave the guitar alone But I do think that we have to figure out. I like your your thought Where should we keep this so it does so we’re not tripping over it every time we’re going through the garage like there are other ways to Have a win -win without somebody getting rid of it. I want to talk further about this We do need to go take take a commercial break and when we come back

I want to go over those questions one more time to give us a little script. Like to say, if we’re looking at this guitar case and we’re like, are you kidding me? This is still here. Why does this thing haunt me in my dreams? And we want to have, the goal isn’t necessarily to get rid of it. The goal is to live with the mutual decision it sounds like. And.

Donna Jones (15:37.678)

Yeah. Well, if you’re living with someone, yeah, exactly. Because that’s part of it.

Kathi (15:41.447)

Yeah, okay. I wanna come back and come up with those questions so that we can have that script that we can enter and do. So we’re gonna take a quick break, get this podcast paid for, and we’ll be right back.

Okay, Donna, here’s my question. I would love to give our listeners a little script. So, you know, let’s go back to the guitar, because that’s not a big deal. It’s just something that, well, let’s just be clear, I’ve lived with for 18 years, but it’s okay. Yeah, do I sound okay? Maybe not. So the first…

I’m not gonna say, are you kidding? We still have this guitar. This guitar haunts my dreams. We’re not gonna say that. We’re gonna say something more along the lines of, tell me about why this guitar is important to you or has been. Is that something like that?

Donna Jones (20:20.206)

Yeah, well, actually, we’re going to start with, yeah, we’re going to start with, what do you think we should do with this? Okay. That and, and.

Kathi (20:27.079)

Okay, and I’m gonna say, go ahead, tell me more.

Donna Jones (20:31.566)

No, well, I think the person goes, give it away. You’re done. I mean, you’re golden, right? You’re golden. Yeah.

Kathi (20:35.143)

You’re done. And you’re like, this is amazing. But I’m going to come back and say, but I played this in youth group, and that was kind of an important part of my life. And who knows, maybe someday I’ll pick it up again. Like these are not things Roger has necessarily said, but things that I imagine he might say. And I’m like, OK, but we don’t have a lot of room in our house. So like, what’s my next question for him?

Donna Jones (20:54.67)

Okay.

Donna Jones (21:01.166)

Yeah, so start with like, what do you think we should do with this? Then if they want to keep it, okay, tell me why that this is important. You feel like this is important to you. And then if they give you a reason, then say, okay, well, where do you think we should keep it so that it’s not in our way? And then you put it on them and then you need one. Yeah, find that place.

Kathi (21:08.519)

Yeah.

Kathi (21:20.615)

Okay, okay, to find that place. Okay, great. Now, I’m gonna challenge you with something bigger, Donna. We have people in our group, especially our paid group, Clutter -Free for Life, that their husbands have had things like farm equipment that they haven’t used in a decade, or cars, or…

I don’t know, you know, whole rooms dedicated to a hobby. So big stuff. How do you go to the next place in the conversation in big stuff?

Donna Jones (21:51.342)

So big stuff, big stuff. Yeah.

Donna Jones (21:59.566)

Yeah, yes, such a great question. Well, there is a chapter in the book called big things, little things, and everything in between. So part of handling conflict well is discerning. And when I say big things, little things, we’re talking about physical big things or physical little things, right? But there are emotional big things and emotional little things. So, you know, this is broader than just possessions.

So we got to discern, is this a big deal or a big thing or is this just a little thing like the dress in your closet? That’s just a small thing. It’s not a big deal. It doesn’t really take up much space and Rogers not, it’s not causing angst in your marriage, right? Small thing, let it go. But there are big things, emotionally big things or things like cars on the driveway or cars on the front lawn.

Kathi (22:29.543)

Right.

Kathi (22:46.503)

Right. Right.

Kathi (22:55.655)

Mm -hmm. Yeah. It’s a big deal.

Donna Jones (22:56.846)

that that’s a big deal, right? So that’s got to be addressed. That’s got to be addressed. In the book, I actually talk very specifically about a couple who were vastly different in the way they viewed a big thing. And their big thing was finances. He was a spender, she was a saver. And they just, every single time they talked about finances, it was World War Three.

Kathi (23:14.535)

Mm -hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (23:26.503)

Donna Jones (23:26.798)

So it could be, you know, there’s somebody in your listening audience where their husband is kind of a hoarder, they’re trying to get it together and get clutter free, and it is just a constant conflict, right? So here’s what happens oftentimes is when we battle the same things over and over and over again, we tend to make the person the problem. Like if you weren’t such a hoarder, if you weren’t so invested in that darn car, you know, you see what I’m saying? So we make the person the…

Kathi (23:36.423)

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:49.031)

Mmm. Yeah.

Yeah, yes.

Donna Jones (23:56.397)

problem. But here’s why that doesn’t work. We can never solve a person. We can only solve a problem. So instead of making a person the problem, keep the problem the problem. So let’s just say you have, you know, you have a whole room that you can’t use because your husband’s taking it up.

Kathi (24:03.527)

Oof. Yes.

Kathi (24:12.967)

Okay.

Donna Jones (24:23.182)

And that’s, you need that room or you want that room or that bothers you for whatever reason. So what you’re gonna do is you’re gonna sit down and you’re gonna come up with, you’re gonna talk about something that could be like a win -win solution. So, and you’re gonna think about the other person’s interests, right? So this is called like,

Kathi (24:26.887)

Right.

Kathi (24:41.127)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (24:46.631)

Okay.

Donna Jones (24:50.318)

Well, I can’t even remember what it’s called. What else is going on? It’s going out of my brain. My brain is cluttered right now. Yeah, a little side note, Kathi. Yeah, you’re trying to get to a win -win. So you sit down and you write where you’re going with this. So let’s just say it’s both of us feel good about that extra room, right? That both of us feel good about that. The way that extra room is,

Kathi (24:53.095)

That’s okay.

But you’re trying to get to a win -win, is what you’re saying. Yeah.

Kathi (25:10.439)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (25:15.911)

Mm -hmm. Yes. Yes.

Donna Jones (25:20.27)

being used. Then that’s where you’re going. So you’re both going in the same direction on this problem. Then you start brainstorming and you make a commitment, we’re just going to brainstorm this as a brain dump. So no, this is not the point where you go, that’s not going to work. No, you just like throw it out. But if there’s something that it’s like, that’s just, that’s not going to work for either of us. You can dump that one.

Kathi (25:21.607)

Yes.

Kathi (25:28.775)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (25:33.543)

you

Right.

Kathi (25:48.103)

Yeah.

Donna Jones (25:48.11)

And then you just start kind of, you know, you start kind of winnowing them down, but you’re always keeping in mind, okay, what’s the end goal? So this works for you, this works for me. And, you know, you kind of work toward that. Now that might take several conversations.

Kathi (26:08.647)

Right, I think the problem we often have is we want to get to the solution in 15 minutes when the problem has taken a decade. And that’s painful. So, you know, if there is a, you know, when you’re brainstorming saying, you know, I’d really love for our kids to be able to stay in that room when they come to visit. And I know your hobby is really important to you.

Donna Jones (26:13.678)

Listen. Listen.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Kathi (26:36.519)

Could we divide the space? Could we think through, could we use, you know, you used to collect coins and stamps and now you’re just collecting stamps. Could we do something with the coin? Like, I love the idea of brainstorming together to a solution where a common win is. And that common win is we both love our kids and we’d love for them to be able to stay here. Or, yeah.

Donna Jones (26:52.846)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (26:57.038)

Yes.

Donna Jones (27:02.286)

Okay, you just, that I just want to point out what you said, that was really key. We both love our kids. So you’ve just now put yourself on the same side. You have the same interest. So at some point in all of this, you’re gonna have a common interest in some area. It might just be your kids or you might,

Kathi (27:08.199)

Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (27:15.079)

Mmm, yeah.

Kathi (27:23.047)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (27:28.295)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (27:31.158)

If you always are thinking about just your interests, I want that room back because I want to use it as a guest bedroom. That’s never going to convince someone because you’re only looking at what’s important to you. You have to remember how you view things determines how you do things. So you have to always be thinking, what’s a win for you? What would be helpful for you? So when you do that, it’s easier to resolve your conflict.

Kathi (27:38.151)

Right, right.

Yeah.

Kathi (27:52.551)

Yeah.

Kathi (27:59.143)

Let me ask you this question because we have some people in some of our groups who are in really hard circumstances. And I’m thinking of one friend in particular who, you know, we talk about.

Donna Jones (28:08.846)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (28:16.167)

in our group saying, it’s really important to me that when we have people over, I’m not embarrassed by the house. That, you know, the house doesn’t have to be perfect, but I want people to feel comfortable coming into my house. And this friend said, but what if my family doesn’t care if I’m comfortable or not? And in my estimation, that’s not a clutter problem.

Donna Jones (28:25.006)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (28:44.647)

That’s a relationship issue. What would you say to somebody who says, my family doesn’t care that I feel blank, blank, blank.

Donna Jones (28:44.846)

Yeah, that’s exactly right.

Donna Jones (28:56.782)

Yes. my goodness. It’s really interesting, Kathi, because in doing the interviews for the book and talking to people about the book, because the book is really a relational book, right? Because conflict is relational always. One of the biggest questions I get, it’s twofold really. One is what are the biggest mistakes that you can make in conflict? And

Kathi (29:08.551)

Yeah, yeah. Right, absolutely.

Kathi (29:22.439)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (29:24.686)

actually the biggest, well, I don’t know if this is the biggest, but one of the top three. I actually have a chapter in the book called the top 10 mistakes that people make in terms of conflict. But the top one of the top three would be being dismissive of another person’s concern, because that communicates disrespect, right? And it’s a very short walk from disrespect to the dissolution of a relationship.

Kathi (29:33.415)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:40.647)

Mmm, yeah. Yeah.

Right?

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:52.487)

Yeah, absolutely.

Donna Jones (29:52.59)

So that’s why being dismissive is a really big deal. So that your friend is feeling dismissed. That’s a big deal. That needs to be addressed on a deeper. Yeah, it is.

Kathi (30:00.231)

Yeah, it’s a huge deal. So is that something to take to a counselor at that point? Because that doesn’t feel like anything I can address about clutter. But I do feel like that’s not OK. Roger would never tell me, I don’t care how you feel. That would never come up. So.

Donna Jones (30:12.942)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Donna Jones (30:19.598)

Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (30:27.079)

Is that the next step or are there steps in between somebody saying that and going to a counselor?

Donna Jones (30:32.207)

Yeah, I think there are steps in between because sometimes we assume that, let’s just say your friend has communicated. See, that’s the other thing. Sometimes we assume that we’re communicating what’s important to us, but we’re actually not communicating it clearly. So one of the things that my husband would like to say is expectation without communication always leads to frustration.

Kathi (30:34.535)

Okay.

Kathi (30:58.279)

that is true, yes.

Donna Jones (31:00.334)

Yeah. So we have to make sure, wait, did I communicate this in a clear way? And if I didn’t, that’s maybe why I’m frustrated because the other person’s not clear on my expectation.

Kathi (31:04.743)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Okay. I’m expecting you to mind read and suddenly you’ve lost that power. Darn it. Okay.

Donna Jones (31:14.03)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So that’s the first step. Did I communicate this? My wants, my needs, my expectations, whatever. And then if, let’s just say you did, and the other person’s like, well, I don’t care. Why is that a big deal to you? Now that’s when you need to have a deeper conversation.

about and you need to really address some of these issues, right? Now, this may not be counseling level yet. This is where you make conflict work for you rather than against you. And one of the things that I talk about in the book is a conflict continuum that on either side of an unhealthy way of dealing with conflict is

Kathi (32:00.839)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (32:07.086)

On one side is avoidance, we’re the avoiders, and on the other side are the attackers. And probably all of your listeners know where they are, either more toward avoidance or more toward attacking, and they also probably know what their family members are, right?

Kathi (32:12.775)

Mm -hmm.

You’re right.

Kathi (32:23.431)

We’re two avoiders married to each other, so you know, nothing ever gets done. Yes.

Donna Jones (32:27.502)

basically you know you know right so here’s the thing Kathi neither of those is healthy or biblical so instead of being an avoider or an attacker the sweet spot in the middle is are the addressers and these are the people who have learned to address the issues so that the conflict ends up

Kathi (32:35.175)

Right.

Donna Jones (32:54.222)

being able to be resolved or worked through or at least managed in a healthy way. Okay? So, and a lot of the book is, okay, how do you do that? Because that’s the golden ticket. That’s the golden question, right?

Kathi (32:56.967)

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Kathi (33:05.671)

Right.

Yeah, so yeah, and I will correct myself and say with Roger and myself we are addressers to each other, but we were born both avoiders. So we are growing, we are growing, we’re still avoiders with some other people because my goodness, yeah. Okay, so just a final question here. If somebody, you know, and I definitely, guys, I recommend the book and we’ll put a link in there for,

Donna Jones (33:18.126)

that’s good.

Donna Jones (33:22.702)

Hahaha!

Kathi (33:38.119)

for all of you to check that out. If somebody is saying, you know what, this has been something, I’m tired of avoiding the conversation, or I’m tired of the fight level in my household, because I know that this is a short trigger for me.

I get very angry when I talk about that. What is one major step we can do to address the conflict in a healthy way that we haven’t talked about yet in the podcast? You say, my end goal is for both myself and this person I live with to have a good outcome. I want to address this in a healthy way and I don’t want to go back to my old patterns of attack or avoidance. What’s one thing I can do?

Donna Jones (34:36.014)

Okay, when most people think of how to handle conflict, they think of what action do I need to take? But the most important component of handling conflict well is not an action. It’s an attitude. And that attitude is humility. And here’s why.

Humility allows us to both see our perspective and the other person’s perspective. And humility is not the same thing as humiliation, right? Humility simply makes us a doorway for conversation, not a doormat for exploitation. So they’re really different. So if we’re humble, then that opens the door for further conversation.

Kathi (35:28.647)

No.

Kathi (35:38.279)

Mmm, yes.

Donna Jones (35:47.118)

So we really have to go back to this is you and me, not you versus me. So let me tell you, let me just close with this story that this was such a powerful but yet simple thing that my husband taught me really just by the way he responded to me. We were having a conflict early in our marriage.

Kathi (35:56.007)

Right.

Donna Jones (36:11.694)

And I really wanted him to see my perspective and he really wanted me to see his perspective. And we were going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And you know how that goes. Nobody’s really listening to each other and you’re interrupting each other and the conflict is escalating, escalating, escalating. And then we got to the point where JP just looked at me and he goes, Donna, Donna, I’m on your team. And Cathy, that phrase, I’m on your team, literally.

de -escalated that conflict in a nanosecond. Because what that did is it reminded me that, okay, we’re not adversaries here. And let’s try to work this out. But sometimes we just have to say that out loud. We have to verbally express our humility. Hey, I’m on your team. And we can do this. That takes humility.

Kathi (36:45.127)

Yes.

Kathi (36:53.159)

Right.

Kathi (37:05.275)

Yes. When it comes to decluttering, when it comes to decluttering, I think one of the humility stances we have to take is I, even though I belong to this group, I listen to this podcast, like I’m up in the clutter all the time, I don’t necessarily have the best answer. Like,

Maybe my spouse or my roommate or my child or my parent has a better idea how to handle this thing that we perceive as clutter. Maybe they have a better idea or maybe brainstorming together. We can because I think most of us know, well, that should be thrown away or that should be donated or that should be stored in this way. And to say humility says I want to win for both of us.

So let’s brainstorm together and be on the same team. Because our common enemy is the chaos in our lives. And being on the same team says, we don’t defeat each other, we defeat the chaos. And that’s what we’re going to do here. Donna, this is such a great perspective. Friends, the book is called Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life. And isn’t that?

Donna Jones (38:11.597)

Mmm, yes.

Kathi (38:30.887)

I know we all want to avoid the conflict. We can’t avoid the conflict. So let’s deal with it in a healthy way. We’re going to have notes and links in the podcast notes so that you can go find out more about Donna, more about the book, and more about her podcast. Donna, thanks so much for being on ClutterFree Academy.

Donna Jones (38:49.902)

thank you so much, Kathi. This was just a joy.

Kathi (38:52.807)

This is so much fun to talk about from all the different perspectives for me. I just love it and friends Thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to clutter free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp now go create the clutter free life You’ve always wanted to live

#653 Say Goodbye to Insomnia: How Decluttering Can Reboot Your Rest

Hey there, friend! In this eye opening episode of Clutter-Free Academy, join Kathi Lipp as she speaks with Dr. Vicki Kasper to explore the powerful and surprising link between clutter and sleep. They discuss the science behind rest, how a clutter-free environment...

#652 The Clutter Free Lifestyle: 10 Habits That Actually Work

Hey there, friend! In this encouraging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo reveal the top 10 habits they've developed since embracing a clutter-free lifestyle. This candid conversation offers listeners practical insights into how living...

#651 10 Surprising Things I No Longer Do as a Clutter-Free Mom

Hey there, friend! In this compelling episode of Clutter-Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo explore the significant and often surprising habits they've relinquished to maintain a clutter-free lifestyle. Listeners will discover insights and practical advice...

#626 The Hidden Trauma Behind Clutter: How to Start Healing Your Relationship with Possessions

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 16, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

626 The Hidden Trauma Behind Clutter: How to Start Healing Your Relationship with Possessions

Have you ever struggled to give things away without feeling guilty, even when the items have only a slight chance of being useful in the future?

That very question came from our Clutter Free Academy listeners. In this CFA Mail Bag episode, Kathi Lipp and co-host Tonya Kubo answer that question and more. They dive deep into the emotional aspects of decluttering, focusing on the guilt that often accompanies getting rid of items.
Kathi and Tonya explore the roots of this guilt, discussing how childhood experiences and ingrained perfectionism can contribute to cluttering behaviors in adulthood. They share personal anecdotes and practical strategies for overcoming these emotional barriers to decluttering.

Listeners will discover:

Why it’s important to question why we’re not using certain items
How being intentional about what we bring into our homes is crucial
When considering environmental impact should happen

Throughout the episode, Kathi and Tonya offer encouragement and practical advice for breaking free from the cycle of clutter and creating a more peaceful, organized living space.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.Tonyakubo.com

Information from the National Recording Preservation Board on Fibber McGee and Molly

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

Have you taken the “Low Buy July” Challenge? How is that going?

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

Transcript

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with…

the co -host with the most, it is Tonya Kubo. Although, here’s the thing. It’s so funny. Somehow, people got onto a discussion about who their favorite guests were on Clutter free Academy. It is a horse race between Tonya Kubo and Roger Lipp. If I could pick two people for it to be a horse race in, yes.

Tonya Kubo (00:40.974)

Tonya Kubo (00:45.454)

It is.

Kathi (00:55.489)

If I had to, we could do this entire podcast with just the two of you and be just fine. Because I feel like you bring the heart of a cluttery person who has done some healing to this. And Roger brings the, I live with a cluttery person. And, but I, I, I learned an interesting fact about our friend Roger Lipp. So we were, I learned we were driving away from my mom’s house and

Tonya Kubo (00:59.854)

Hahaha

Tonya Kubo (01:18.926)

What did you learn?

Kathi (01:25.281)

know, when we leave town, it’s kind of hilarious, Tonya, because we’ve got our Yeti cooler and we’ve got a pretty small car. We’ve got, we just bring the Jeep usually back and forth. So we had the Yeti cooler, we had our Sam’s order, we had, you know, I bring food back and forth from my mom’s. And then we had some dog food, like all this stuff. And my mom said, it looks like Fibber McGee is pulling out.

Tonya Kubo (01:28.398)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (01:44.142)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (01:54.625)

which I guess was a radio show in the 1940s. Right. Yeah, a little cultural context from 80 years ago. And so Roger says, I’ve been called that all my life. And I’m like, wait, what?

Tonya Kubo (01:57.966)

I’ve heard the name but I had no idea what it meant. So thank you for explaining for me. I appreciate this. Thanks.

Tonya Kubo (02:13.774)

Okay, now we need to know why.

Kathi (02:16.289)

Okay, so, you know, Roger’s mom got remarried in like the the 70s. And his new father, which is kind of funny. His name was Dr. Dobson. Now, not the Dr. Dobson. Yeah, yes, exactly. But this was Dr. Dobson who was a pastor. And he’s very interesting. He actually shook the hand of Einstein because they were both at college at the same time. Right? Right? So interesting.

Tonya Kubo (02:28.526)

Okay, not the Dr. Dobson.

Kathi (02:46.177)

But I know. Roger didn’t know that. I asked him. I asked him because I knew that they were at, I think it was Princeton at the same time. I had done a little research. Yeah, anywho. Yeah. And let’s just say Roger’s stepdad, much older than Roger’s stepmom. Little bit of a scandal, but you know, kind of anyway. That’s what keeps things interesting. Anyway, so Dr. Dean was his name.

Tonya Kubo (02:46.414)

Why isn’t Roger pulling that out at pub trivia?

Tonya Kubo (02:58.67)

Huh, okay.

Kathi (03:15.425)

Never raised his kids. They were always raised in like a missionary school things like that so Roger was the first kid he had ever really lived with and He thought Roger was this wild child and I’m like, my goodness. Tell me all the good stories He goes, yeah, he’d be up really late at night and I’m like tell me tell me more cuz I have no scandal on Roger He goes yeah working on that photography equipment. I’m like

Tonya Kubo (03:21.518)

Mmm.

Tonya Kubo (03:44.238)

he was in the dark room late at night alone with negatives.

Kathi (03:44.865)

Okay. Develop developing things for the yearbook and the newspaper. Yeah. So anywho, all this to say, Fibber McGee, so apparently Roger has been called cluttery his whole life. I have seen no evidence of this really in his life, but I just I, I, it felt good.

to know, you know, maybe we have a common core. This is way off topic. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (04:18.958)

off topic because today is my favorite episode. Okay, I do. I was like…

Kathi (04:24.641)

You love these episodes. I love them too, but you get a little bit of sick joy, I would just say.

Tonya Kubo (04:30.862)

Well, here’s what I love. So we’re doing a mailbag episode, which, and the mailbag episodes are my favorite. And the reason they are my favorite is twofold. Number one, I love, love, love, love, love that we can take the real life current experiences of our Clear Free Academy members and bring them onto the show to help other people who aren’t on Facebook.

Kathi (04:35.201)

Yep.

Kathi (04:54.945)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (04:58.766)

didn’t know we have a Facebook group or any of that. Like I love that. I also love the message that we send to our Clutterfree Academy members who ask these questions that they’re really not alone. Because if they were the only person on the planet who had this problem, who had this question, we would not be devoting an entire episode to it.

Kathi (05:12.289)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:20.161)

Right. And I love what you’re saying there, to feel less alone. Because we all sit in our houses, we only get invited over to perfect houses. And so we assume that we’re the only one without a perfect house. And just by our Facebook group statistics alone, which is over 15 ,000 people, I would challenge you to sit, I would challenge your thinking on that, that you’re the only one, because you’re not.

Tonya Kubo (05:31.214)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (05:41.262)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (05:47.726)

Yeah, exactly. So today’s question, I feel like speaks to the heart of where many people are when they join Clutterfree Academy. So I find that we have a few composite new members. There is the person who is like me, feeling suffocated by their stuff to the point that actually being unhoused sounds liberating.

Kathi (06:02.465)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:15.502)

Like the idea of having nothing but a backpack sounds like the ultimate liberation, which, go ahead.

Kathi (06:22.977)

My mom, Tonya, has a button that says potential bag lady. Like, yeah, she just, I think especially having two teenagers, she was like, just go and, you know, and by the way, we’re not making fun of unhoused people at all, friends, please, please, please. But I think everybody’s had, I think that’s why we like hotels so much.

Tonya Kubo (06:29.71)

Yeah!

Tonya Kubo (06:37.262)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:44.27)

No.

Tonya Kubo (06:49.966)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:51.201)

I think that’s why we like the thought of doing an RV or something like that. I think a lot of Cloré people have those same ideals.

Tonya Kubo (06:54.798)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:58.574)

Right. And so to the point, right, because what I’m really getting at is so overwhelmed that you just want to escape. We have that person and they want to escape their living circumstances. And then we have the person who comes who actually has a moral struggle. Like they’re not sure. They know that other people have a problem with the condition of their house or other people have a problem with their cluttery ways, but they’re not actually sure that other people are right. Because

Kathi (07:05.921)

bright.

Yes.

Kathi (07:27.713)

What do you mean by that?

Tonya Kubo (07:28.745)

Because in their heart of hearts, they think they’re doing good in the world by keeping hold of things. And so that’s where this question comes from. Because I know, like the outsiders who are not cluttery assume that, you know, our group is full of people who just can’t keep house, which you know how I feel about that. And that’s an episode for another day. But this is the person who says, okay, I hear what you’re saying that

Kathi (07:34.913)

Mmm, yes.

Yes.

Kathi (07:48.481)

Yeah, right.

Tonya Kubo (07:57.006)

I, you know, that it makes sense and it’s a good idea to have a house that’s tidy, that’s peace -filled, that my family enjoys. And yet, I genuinely cannot give anything away if it has even a modicum, even like a little itty bitty hair’s breadth chance of being useful at some point in time to someone, even if that someone’s not me.

What do I do when I can’t give anything away without feeling guilty? That’s the question. And it’s a doozy, right, Kathi? Because there is the decluttering aspect. There is the internal emotional aspect of the guilt. And I would even argue the shame of releasing stuff.

Kathi (08:25.985)

Right.

Kathi (08:35.329)

Hmm.

Tonya Kubo (08:48.686)

And we’ve worked a lot of times with members who the shame and the guilt comes from they spent money on that thing, right? That they’re not using. But this is different. This is I can see that somewhere, somehow somebody might need an extra cord from a slow cooker and therefore I cannot get rid of the cord. So that’s the question that I’m bringing to you, OYZ1. Hit me with your knowledge now.

Kathi (08:56.577)

Right.

Kathi (09:08.481)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Well, this is going to be a mutual knowledge thing. Okay. So can I tell you, I’m just gonna throw up confessions here. Okay. So, okay, I am a kid from the 80s, right? You know, Brat Pack, all that kind of stuff, like hardcore 80s. Yes, I know. I love them. And

Tonya Kubo (09:21.326)

Yeah

Tonya Kubo (09:30.734)

Sure, I’m all up for confessions.

Kathi (09:44.929)

But I grew up in a very black and white time. Like, excuse me. Like, if you were really hungry, you would eat those green peppers.

Tonya Kubo (09:54.094)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (10:05.397)

I was like, and we all could finish your sentence for you. If you were really hungry, you would eat what I put in front of you.

Kathi (10:08.481)

Yes. Right, right. And, you know, if you if you, you know, you shouldn’t have to buy clothes, because you should be happy with what you have. It very black and white thinking. And, you know, to be grateful for everything you have, which I agree with, Tonya, I don’t actually know a lot of people. I feel like

that express their gratitude for what they have more than I do. And I’m not saying that I don’t think I’m a big bragger on here, but I just know like my intense gratitude for what I have. And that can also be a trap. Like,

Tonya Kubo (10:42.734)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (10:52.718)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (10:58.318)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:01.249)

If you know, here’s a shirt and it has a bunch of stains on it. Okay, so I’m going to work really hard to get those stains out and I got those stains out, but now it’s a little frayed. But you know what? I’m going to, I’m going to, I’m going to do this, this, this, this. And then finally it gets to the place where that shirt can’t be used anymore. Well, I should be able to use that as a rag, even though it’s an ineffective way of cleaning my house. And I hate cleaning my house.

Tonya Kubo (11:08.494)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:23.662)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:30.657)

But I should, I should, I should. The person who is struggling to give things away without guilt, who I contend towards that, is we have got a brain full of shoulds. And maybe we grew up in a house where we were being corrected a lot. Like, okay, can I give a silly example without throwing my mom under the bus?

Tonya Kubo (11:32.942)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:38.03)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:45.902)

Mmm.

Kathi (12:00.769)

So yesterday, I was helping her clean her living room and there was just a plastic water bottle there. And I said, are you using this to water plants? And she goes, no, I think, you know, it just got left there by somebody. And I said, okay. So I go to the sink to dump it out. She goes, but water a plant with it, Kathi. And like, there’s…

Tonya Kubo (12:00.814)

Sure.

Tonya Kubo (12:18.862)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:31.809)

So it’s just funny, it’s a funny example, right? But you may have grown up in a house that was like that about everything. Like, okay, when that shirt’s no longer good, then we’re gonna give it to goodwill, even if it has stains on it, because somebody should be grateful for it, and somebody should wear it. And…

Tonya Kubo (12:34.606)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (12:41.806)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:57.185)

I have always been under the impression, or not always, but definitely in the last 20 years, if I wouldn’t want to wear it, why should I expect somebody else to want to wear it? If I wouldn’t eat it, why should I expect somebody else to want to eat it? I’ve had to change my thinking on that and say, it’s not a bet. We can be in such a poverty mindset that it’s impossible for us to give things away or to

Tonya Kubo (13:21.23)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (13:26.177)

throw things away. And, you know, like, okay, maybe that, you know, it’s that toaster oven, that if somebody spent $30 repairing it, that it could be useful. But most people don’t know how to repair a toaster oven, don’t know where to start with that. And yes, there are things you could do. And if you’re one of those naturally handy people, yay, but most of us aren’t.

Tonya Kubo (13:28.846)

Yeah…

Tonya Kubo (13:35.79)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (13:56.321)

And we have to figure out where we’re going to put our time, effort, and energy. And all of this is trade -offs. There is no… So many of us, I struggle with this mightily, are closet perfectionists. We don’t look like we’re perfectionists because if you came into our house, you know I’m not a perfectionist, but I am. I’m trapped in the way I should be doing things and I’m not doing things.

Tonya Kubo (13:57.038)

right?

Tonya Kubo (14:01.55)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:23.777)

and I live with that guilt all the time. And Tony, I want to hear your response to this. We’re going to take a quick break. We’re going to go get some bills paid. We’re going to come right back. And I want to hear your response to that perfectionistic mindset and maybe the people we grew up with contributing to that.

Tonya Kubo (14:34.062)

Yeah

Tonya Kubo (14:38.638)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (14:44.046)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:46.561)

Okay friends, we are back. Tonya is going to give us all her wisdom about how perfectionism really can be one of the main reasons why it’s hard to give away clutter, items, et cetera, without guilt. Go Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (15:04.59)

Alrighty. So it’s interesting this perfectionist idea, because I definitely agree with it. And I, there’s so much wrapped up in there. And I think your point is, you know, so much of our adult cluttery ways are steeped in some form of childhood trauma. And I’m not saying like capital T front page headline trauma.

Kathi (15:30.625)

Goodbye.

No.

Tonya Kubo (15:33.998)

I am saying I’m really talking about the trauma that just builds up. It’s like the thing that hurts your feelings but maybe didn’t hurt your brother’s feelings. That sort of stuff, right? Like you just, you carried it differently.

Kathi (15:45.185)

It’s, you can be, yeah, you can be traumatized just by imperfect parenting. And that, it’s something you still have to work out. It’s okay, you know, because we were all raised by imperfect parents. That’s what happened.

Tonya Kubo (15:52.558)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (16:01.71)

Exactly. So with that, I think that we also have to come to some point where we say, who do I really want to be? Right? What like what’s mine to carry? What do I want to carry? And I know for me, that cluttering journey has really been about going, huh, I don’t have to own this, right? Like this wasn’t even my junk to own in the first place.

Kathi (16:14.881)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (16:18.849)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (16:31.809)

That’s right.

Tonya Kubo (16:32.101)

And so, yes, there’s the perfectionistic part of wanting to do things right that our Clegary folks really, really struggle with. But I think the point you’re actually making is sometimes it’s not our own perfectionism, but it’s perfectionism that was projected onto us.

Kathi (16:51.041)

Mm -hmm. If you’re going to do it the right way, if you’re going to do, you know, there’s a moral attachment to being thrifty and reusing banks and a moral attachment to spending less money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And some of those are good things. You know, I believe in those things, but also they can be guilt traps.

Tonya Kubo (17:04.462)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:19.521)

They can be deep traps. And also, lots of times, Tonya, you may be done with something, but like we were talking about earlier, you still see the value in it. So you want to give it to me so that I can get the value out of it. I one time had somebody at church who said, Kathi,

Tonya Kubo (17:31.278)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (17:39.726)

Right.

Kathi (17:47.041)

I can’t use these hundred baskets anymore. And I’m not even joking, a hundred different baskets. 100 baskets. There were more than that, but it was at a minimum of a hundred. But I’ve left them here for you because I know you could do something with them. And in my brain is like, do you just want me to take them to the dump? Like, what do you want me to do? And it was, she was putting,

Tonya Kubo (17:50.734)

Mm -hmm. 100 baskets.

Tonya Kubo (18:06.414)

Like what?

Kathi (18:15.649)

a judgment on me to say, basically, if you’re a good person, you would figure out how to let these not go to waste. In my thinking, it was like, lady, you should not have collected 100 baskets. And yeah, and this was a lovely lady and she has since passed. And I think sometimes, like I’ve had some relatives where I’ve had to say, hey, I can take that from you, but you have to give me

full autonomy to deal with it in the way I want. You’re never going to ask me, where is this? Do you display it? And those relatives couldn’t do it. They needed, it’s a control issue, right? And I struggle with control issues as well. And I’ve had to learn that if I’m going to give something away, I have to be okay with whatever happens to it. And that is a hard place for people to be.

Tonya Kubo (19:10.574)

Mm -hmm. That’s true.

Kathi (19:15.649)

But also I need to make sure that I am controlling my own environment and not letting things seep in that or not refusing to give things away because of this mindset. You know, I am very quick to say, hey, I’m not using this. I’m going to give it away. I now I am. But I used

Tonya Kubo (19:32.206)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (19:42.318)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (19:45.185)

I used to have this guilt of like, I have to get the value out of it. I have to get the money out of it. Like I have to hold onto that shirt because I haven’t worn it enough. Well, why haven’t I worn it enough? Because it actually, you know, maybe it was itchy. And if it’s, so I think that’s the next step when you’re like, why am I not using this item? Is it because I’ve

Tonya Kubo (19:50.286)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (19:56.206)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (20:03.566)

Mmm.

Kathi (20:13.153)

outgrown it, either physically or emotionally or mentally, well then it’s okay to give to somebody else or if it’s not usable, it’s okay for it to go into the landfill. Every human gets a certain amount of landfill stuff and I would challenge you to look at your landfill consumption on the

acquiring end instead of the getting rid of it. That’s where you can do the most impact. So thinking about something before you purchase it, asking yourself, why am I no longer using this? You know, I had some, some pants that I was like, I’m just not wearing them. I’m just not wearing them. And so I’m like, okay, I’m going to pick them up. Why am I not wearing them? Well, when I picked them up, I realized, Tonya, what I kept doing.

Tonya Kubo (20:43.437)

Mm -hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi (21:10.209)

was I kept pulling them out of the closet, seeing they had this weird stain on them, and putting them back in the closet. This was not a good system for me, right?

Tonya Kubo (21:16.654)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (21:21.582)

Can I just tell you I have lived that exact same system, Kathi? It is okay. I feel you right now.

Kathi (21:24.161)

Right? Right? Yes! And so, but these are good fitting pants and I like how they look on me. I just don’t like a giant stain. So what am I doing? I’m dyeing those pants tomorrow.

Tonya Kubo (21:32.27)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (21:40.286)

I was just gonna ask if dying fixes that.

Kathi (21:42.849)

It does. It does. You have to go with darker color. So for me, it’s navy blue. For Tonya Kubo, it’s black. But you know, if you go that darker color.

Tonya Kubo (21:46.766)

Okay.

Tonya Kubo (21:52.238)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (22:04.641)

I’ll just be honest, sometimes we’re trying too hard to save things that don’t need to be saved. Maybe the taco casserole that I made the other day that I was trying a new recipe on and Roger said, he’s very appreciative of my cooking, but he goes, it tastes like there’s a piece of Wonder Bread in the middle of it. And he was not down with that texture. And I tried to save it a couple of times. Yeah, sometimes you just need to give up and it’s okay to give up, try to fix something. But if you can’t,

Tonya Kubo (22:08.75)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:19.214)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:24.878)

Got it.

Tonya Kubo (22:29.262)

Yeah.

Kathi (22:33.729)

fix it, don’t keep it. I want you to hear me clearly. I’m not screaming at Tonya. I’m screaming at all of my friends who are like, well, at some point there’s magically going to need to be a use for that. You know, I don’t know why I have 300 solo cups, but there’s going to be a day where somebody is going to need those 300 solo cups or, you know, maybe it’s today. Maybe your kid’s school needs them. I don’t know what the

Tonya Kubo (22:39.758)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:49.87)

and

Kathi (23:03.713)

The rules are about red solo cups like at a kids school. Is it too evocative of a college party? Okay.

Tonya Kubo (23:09.454)

No, nobody knows, they’re just disposable cups that everybody uses.

Kathi (23:12.353)

Okay, good, good, good, good. But if you cannot figure out a use for that item, if you can’t figure out somebody who would gleefully receive that item, and here’s the test, Tonya. If you put it up on a buy nothing group and you get no takers, it’s probably junk.

Tonya Kubo (23:31.118)

Yep, that makes sense.

Kathi (23:32.641)

It’s a really quick test. I want us to think about, it’s not about I’ve wasted the money. I’ve gotten my money’s worth, if I wore it one time or 100 times. And now it’s time for somebody else. Cluttery people are so generous. So it’s time for somebody else to get the use out of it. If you’ve only worn it one time,

Tonya Kubo (23:44.814)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (23:56.75)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (24:02.337)

then it probably still has a lot of life left in it and somebody else will use it. But if you’ve worn it a hundred times, it may be time for it to go into clothing recycling. It’s okay, I promise.

Tonya Kubo (24:13.102)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (24:16.782)

That makes sense. And I think, you know, part of me feels like, well, we say that all the time. And then the other part of me feels like, you know what? I know early in my journey, I couldn’t hear it enough. I needed the constant reminder that it is not my job to single -handedly save the environment by never putting another thing in a landfill. It is not my job to be the example of stewardship.

Kathi (24:29.281)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Kathi (24:40.737)

Right, right.

Tonya Kubo (24:46.83)

for the entire planet by retaining everything I ever bought or ever received. So thank you. Thank you for that because even now so many years later, it’s still a helpful reminder.

Kathi (24:53.057)

Yeah.

Kathi (25:01.281)

Well, and I really want to challenge us to think, for some reason, us Cluttery people think about the environment after the purchase. And so to think about before we purchase what, you know, you know my favorite motto from World War I, use it up, wear it out, make do, do without.

Tonya Kubo (25:14.157)

Yes.

Kathi (25:29.313)

That is so much about not bringing new things into our home. And it’s okay. We need to buy things sometimes. I bought a tank top yesterday because right now it is a 110 in Sacramento and I needed a tank top. I’m fine with that. I felt like that was a good purchase, something I’ll be able to use for years to come. But

Tonya Kubo (25:35.31)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (25:51.438)

Yeah.

Kathi (25:58.657)

I thought about it before I bought it. This has been the biggest change I really do like in my clutter free journey after seriously decluttering my house is being so intentional and thoughtful about what I bring into the house. So if you’re feeling guilty about getting rid of things, I always think about it like this. It’s kind of a reset. So if you have a bunch of clothes in your closet that you’re not using,

Tonya Kubo (26:22.222)

Mm.

Kathi (26:26.785)

but you go to your closet every day and you’re like, there should be something here, but there’s nothing I want to wear. It is time to get rid of some of those things in your closet. So you actually have an accurate picture of what you have and can say, you know what? I don’t have a cream tank top. And that would actually go with a lot of things I have. Look at that. I don’t have a pair of jeans that I feel amazing in.

Everybody needs a pair of jeans that they just feel like is a banger. And so, but you’ll never know that when you have 75 things in there that you never wear. And that’s what I want for you. So get that accurate inventory of what you actually have. This could be for food. This could be for gardening equipment. This could be for your closet. This could be for your linens. Because otherwise what we end up doing, Tonya, is we go to the store and you’re like,

Tonya Kubo (26:57.55)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (27:06.414)

so true.

Tonya Kubo (27:21.678)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (27:23.809)

Yeah, I remember that the last time I went to my closet, there was nothing to wear. So I think I just need to buy some new clothes, some new clothes, right? And then what we end up doing is buying things that we don’t need. And then we hold on to things because, well, I spent so much money on it’s this vicious cycle. And we’re going to break the cycle by being intentional about what we bring into our home.

Tonya Kubo (27:28.782)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (27:32.558)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (27:37.806)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (27:48.814)

I love that. I love that.

Kathi (27:50.209)

Yeah. Okay. Well, Tonya, I love these mailbag issues because I feel like we get to go deeper. We get to go to the heart of it. We get to go to our own histories and our own coming up and thinking about this. And guys, when we talked about that trauma, I want you to hear me that you…

Tonya Kubo (28:03.214)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (28:13.537)

I love what you said, Tonya. It’s the lowercase t. It’s the things that make us act in ways that we wouldn’t want to act and make us use decisions. And guys, here’s the thing. I know that I have done this for my kids. If my kids have kids, they’ll do it for their kids. This is part of the cycle of life. But we also know that we can break those cycles.

Tonya Kubo (28:17.486)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (28:24.814)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (28:41.966)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (28:42.497)

And when I break a cycle, even as the adult parent of adults, it does trickle down. They can see changes in our lives and I think that’s beautiful. Tonya, thank you so much for being with me today.

Tonya Kubo (28:49.102)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (28:56.462)

Thanks for having me, Kathi.

Kathi (28:58.337)

And guys, thank you for being with us. If you are struggling in this and you are not part of our Facebook group, can I really encourage you to go over there and check it out? And I’ve heard from a couple of people recently, well, I tried to join and I was not let in. Let me tell you, you probably didn’t answer some questions and that’s okay. But just know that there are questions to ask and answer, there are questions to answer. And if you’re not crazy,

Tonya Kubo (29:19.438)

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (29:24.718)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:28.129)

We will let you in or if you’re all kind of crazy, we’ll let you in. It’s all good friends. Okay Yeah, so join us over at Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy where we talk about these kind of issues all the time and we can support each other because we love to hear what your answers to these questions are as well because we get more wisdom from everybody You’ve been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now go create the Clutter Free life. You were always designed to live

#653 Say Goodbye to Insomnia: How Decluttering Can Reboot Your Rest

Hey there, friend! In this eye opening episode of Clutter-Free Academy, join Kathi Lipp as she speaks with Dr. Vicki Kasper to explore the powerful and surprising link between clutter and sleep. They discuss the science behind rest, how a clutter-free environment...

#652 The Clutter Free Lifestyle: 10 Habits That Actually Work

Hey there, friend! In this encouraging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo reveal the top 10 habits they've developed since embracing a clutter-free lifestyle. This candid conversation offers listeners practical insights into how living...

#651 10 Surprising Things I No Longer Do as a Clutter-Free Mom

Hey there, friend! In this compelling episode of Clutter-Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo explore the significant and often surprising habits they've relinquished to maintain a clutter-free lifestyle. Listeners will discover insights and practical advice...

#625 Meal Planning Made Easy with AI: Kathi’s Insider Tips

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 9, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, DIY, Getting Started, How to, Organizing, Podcast, Recipe, Recipes, tips and ideas | 0 comments

Listen Now

625 – Meal Planning Made Easy with AI: Kathi’s Insider Tips

Have you ever struggled with this age-old question?
“What’s for dinner?”

In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, Kathi and Roger Lipp take you on a journey through the incredible world of AI-driven meal planning. Say goodbye to dinner stress and discover how ethical, efficient AI tools can change your kitchen routine for the better. Join Kathi and Roger as they share their experiences with AI, making home management simpler and more effective than ever. with tips and ideas such as:

How to use AI to generate delicious, healthy, and budget-friendly recipes.
Tips for making AI your ultimate meal-planning assistant, especially for families with dietary restrictions.
The game-changing method to create categorized shopping lists through AI

As promised, here are the Meal Planning prompts that Kathi and Roger use to direct AI to plan their meals:

“Create a 7-day meal plan for a family of four, focusing on balanced nutrition and variety.”

“Suggest five quick and healthy weeknight dinner recipes using chicken breast.”

“Plan a vegetarian meal prep for the week, including breakfast, lunch, and dinner options.”

“Generate a grocery list for a week’s worth of Mediterranean-style meals.”

“Recommend three easy breakfast ideas for someone trying to increase their protein intake.”

“Design a meal plan for someone with diabetes, emphasizing low glycemic index foods.”

“Suggest ways to incorporate more leafy greens into my daily meals.”

“Create a budget-friendly meal plan for a college student, using simple ingredients.”

“Plan a week of meals that can be prepared in 30 minutes or less that my kids would like.”

“Suggest creative ways to use leftover chicken, carrots, onions and French bread to reduce food waste in my meal planning.”

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

Claude AI

ChatGPT

Dollar Tree Dinner ideas

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

What is holding you back from trying AI in meal planning?

Share them in the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

Leave a note in the comment section below.
Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

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Meet Our Guest

Roger Lipp

Roger is a productivity and quality engineer for a Fortune 50 company.

Roger helps teams reach their full productivity potential by teaching them the practical and simple steps to reach their goals. Roger and his wife, author Kathi Lipp, teach communicators how to share their message through social media and email marketing.

He and Kathi coauthored Happy Habits for Every Couple with Harvest House Publishers.

Transcript

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy, where our goal is to help you live with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my AI expert. Okay, so he would not consider himself an AI expert. He is an AI practitioner, but in this household, he is the AI expert. It’s Roger Lipp. Hey, Rog. We do a lot.

Roger (00:33.652)

Hello.

Kathi (00:37.955)

We spend a lot of time thinking about AI in this house.

Roger (00:42.004)

Yeah, I’m thinking about getting business cards made up with AI expert or AI practitioner, yes.

Kathi (00:46.787)

AI practitioner. Yes, yes. Now, I know that there are going to be some people who are listening to this who are like freaked out that we’re talking about AI. I’m just going to give a quick disclaimer. If you are living in the modern world, you are already interacting with AI probably every single day, probably in a bunch of different ways. We just, we spend a lot of time, especially on the writing side of what we do.

talking about how to ethically use AI in our business, in our creativity, but that has leaked over into our personal life. Hasn’t it, Roger? I mean, we’re using it. Yeah. So.

Roger (01:26.964)

100 % we yeah, yeah, we use it all. I I used AI the other night to identify an animal that I wasn’t able to get a picture of, but I described it to the AI and told it where I lived and it identified it. It’s probably a marmot. OK. A marmot.

Kathi (01:39.235)

Right?

Kathi (01:47.651)

a marmot, which I knew that that was an animal or a Vegemite spread in, you know, something. But yeah, it’s fascinating, right? Where, where I, as I, you know, two years ago, when something came up, I would Google and I’d be like, you know, I describing it in Google, and then you kind of have to go read the stuff and everything. And what AI is doing is kind of gathering all of that for you. And with all the conditions you’ve put into that and said, here’s what it most likely is. Did it give you any second tertiary animals? Yeah, right. Yeah. It was pretty, it was pretty convinced that.

Roger (02:26.996)

I could have asked for some backup just in case. It was pretty convinced, but I may go back and see, all right, if it’s not a marmot, what might it be? Could it be a fox? Could it be this or that? I don’t know. It was pretty big.

Kathi (02:40.995)

Yeah.

So, you know, some of the ways that we’ve used AI have been in banking, in planning our garden, in household projects, Aaron’s List. I mean, the list goes on and on. But today I want to talk about meal planning. Because I just want to say, the longer I meal plan, the more I recognize that this is probably the most complex household chore that I have. And, you know, I don’t think we give meal planning and cooking the props that it deserves. I know that almost every woman I know struggles with it and some guys, but let’s just be honest, in the Lipp household, this pretty much falls to me. But you also have to capture the mice and take them out to the… nether regions of our property. So, you know, right, right. Yeah, the two do not cross over. So I’m, I’m fine with this, you know, we kind of said when we started this whole adventure, you’re kind of responsible for the outside, I’m kind of responsible for the inside, but we cross over all the time on this. But meal planning mostly falls to me. And the more I do it, the the more I realize what a complex set of

Roger (03:41.076)

Not to be confused with meal planning.

Kathi (04:08.259)

Actions this is and so I have used AI to really help in the meal planning So I wanted to give some examples, but I also wanted you to kind of describe how people can do this for themselves Now we use Claude for our meal for everything now Yeah, well almost everything it doesn’t matter Claude Claude. Let’s talk about Claude during this podcast

And do you want to give a reason why here in the year of our Lord, you know, the middle of 2024, why we’re using Claude as our AI buddy?

Roger (04:46.004)

Yeah, it may change. It may change in six months. It may change in three weeks. I don’t know. It’s a bit of a horse race. Who’s in the front and who is providing the best service for us? We use a paid version of Claude, Claude .ai. That’s C -L -A -U -D -E .ai. You’ve probably heard of ChatGPT. That’s awesome as well. You can go to Chat .OpenAI .com, I think.

Kathi (04:50.307)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:14.019)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Roger (05:14.836)

for ChatGPT, that’s great as well. We have switched over to Claude because it has more privacy, more security features, more features that are especially important for authors in the context of keeping their work private. But it’s also very good in terms of being able to go back and forth with a conversation for a long time. Chat GPT starts losing its way after a while, but Claude can keep in the conversation and keep going. So that’s two of the reasons why I think Claude is a good choice for folks.

Kathi (05:44.195)

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi (05:50.371)

Yeah.

Kathi (05:58.915)

It has the wisdom of an 80 year old and the sharp mind of a 35 year old. And so that’s the intersection we’re trying to work within. So I wanted to describe some of the ways that I am currently using Claude for meal planning and some of my favorite features. So let me talk about this and you can help us as we go along. Go ahead, Raj. Yeah. Yeah.

Roger (06:03.796)

Ha ha ha ha!

I’m sorry.

Roger (06:22.1)

Kathi, I wonder before we get into that, we could talk a little bit about some of the early stuff that happened with AI and cooking. We watched a YouTube channel for a while where there was an AI cooking challenge and they would take recipes straight off of AI and cook with them literally, you know, following to the T. And the results were not that impressive.

Kathi (06:47.491)

It was not good.

Roger (06:52.244)

So two things in that. One, AI has come a long way since then. And the second, since then, that was what, four months ago. But AI has come a long way since then. And then the other thing is to always take what you get from AI with a little bit of a grain of, a little bit of skepticism. And.

Kathi (06:57.251)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (07:02.851)

Mm. Right? Yeah.

Kathi (07:09.443)

Right.

Kathi (07:19.203)

No, you should have said grain of salt because this is a cooking episode.

Roger (07:22.324)

Yes, grain of salt. Yes. Exactly.

Kathi (07:27.331)

Yeah, so I would say if you get a recipe and it looks crazy, maybe go back, you know, try again. But I will say, so let’s talk about one of my first uses for this. Sometimes I have a mishmash of leftovers, ingredients, things in my refrigerator. And I’m like, I am all out of creativity. My job is a creative job. And it’s like sometimes I’m just tapped out when it’s five o ‘clock and it’s time to cook something for dinner. So explain what a prompt is, Roger.

Roger (08:04.404)

Yeah, a prompt is basically how we talk to the AI. You can think of a prompt as the thing that you type in to the Google search box when you’re looking for something, right? That’s you’re prompting Google to go out and find something on the Internet for you. That’s the same kind of thing that we’re talking about with Claude, except that the prompt can be much much more detailed. You can give it all kinds of parameters. You know, when you’re searching for Google, in Google if you get too wordy with your prompt, the results actually start getting worse. You know, you have to be careful to put the right word at the front and the back, you know, it becomes a whole thing. But with Claude and the AIs, the more you give it, the better the answer is.

Kathi (08:46.627)

Mm -hmm.

Roger (09:00.884)

So you can be as detailed as you want. So you could, when I was talking about, could you help me identify this animal? I was literally typing, hey, I live at 3 ,600 feet in the Sierra mountains and I just saw an animal that’s the shape of a jumbo size squirrel, but about three feet long and maybe 18 inches high. Any idea what this could be? And you know, that.

Kathi (09:27.875)

Mm -hmm.

Roger (09:30.26)

That’s the nature of a prompt.

Kathi (09:33.571)

Yeah, okay. So guys, what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna go listen to some of our fabulous sponsors who keep this podcast free for all. And when we come back, I’m gonna share some of my favorite prompts with you for getting the results I want to help me with all the things cooking. So we’ll be right back.

Kathi (10:05.315)

Okay friends, we are back and I just wanna share some of my favorite prompts that help me get my meal planning done. So if it’s five o ‘clock and I need to get something on the table and I have not planned, which happens sometimes, you know, we had leftovers, whatever. So I can go to Claude and say, hey, I’ve got chicken, spinach and sweet potatoes and a full pantry. Like so a full pantry, you know with spices and oils and things like that. Can you suggest a healthy dinner recipe and Or I could even say can you suggest three? delicious healthy dinner recipes now, why did I add the word delicious Roger?

Roger (10:54.74)

Claude and all the AI seem to do better when you give it some adjectives. It just puts it in the right frame of mind. I don’t know that I can even describe why it works, but it does. It also works if you sometimes stroke its ego. You know, if you are an expert chef, can you help me plan a recipe because, you know, I have chicken, spinach, and sweet potatoes.

Kathi (11:18.147)

Mm -hmm.

Roger (11:24.34)

Sometimes it gets better answers.

Kathi (11:24.451)

Yeah, so yes, so you know, our first category for prompts is recipe recommendations. So I have chicken, spinach, and sweet potatoes. Can you suggest a tasty, healthy dinner recipe? It would be a great prompt. I’m looking for a delicious vegetarian appetizer to bring to a party. Any ideas? And so both of those will give you some ideas.

With the vegetarian one, I would definitely say here are some ingredients I want to use you know Cabbage or you know cheese whatever it is. So that’s one way I would love to use it number two meal planning Can you create a balanced five -day dinner menu for a family of four? My son won’t eat green peppers or mushrooms and I’m allergic to dairy. Claude can handle all of that, which is amazing. I find this to be such a great gift for somebody who has dietary restrictions. If you’re vegan, vegetarian, lactose intolerant, gluten intolerant, this would be, now,

Again, check all your ingredients to make sure that they line up with what your diet actually is. I just learned the other day that Worcestershire sauce is not vegetarian. That it has, I think it’s fish in it? Yeah, I had no idea. Yeah.

Roger (13:04.98)

Like fish, yeah, I think it has fish, yeah. Yeah, so many things have fish. Hey, have you had a chance to use this for like party planning or retreat planning for meals?

Kathi (13:18.339)

I have not done, I have done party planning. So I’ll tell you one thing that I’ve done this week. We are, Roger doesn’t even know this. Our bake sale was just canceled like two minutes ago during, well, this podcast. Yeah. Breaking news. If you were planning to come to the Omo Ranch bake sale, it’s not this weekend. Yeah. Because it’s, it’s going to be the middle of May. And of course we’re, we’re predicted with snow. So, you know, that’s just where we live.

Roger (13:32.148)

okay. Good to know.

Kathi (13:47.875)

Anyway, but it helped me plan out the entire bake sale like here are all the things you need to bring with you here Like it can help with those kind of things which I think is fascinating But also when we have retreats here, we have people who are vegetarian. We have people who can’t eat gluten so I can start What I probably would do is say, here is what we normally would eat at a retreat. Can you give me some suggestions because of these modifications to the diet? And it would be a genius for that. So.

Roger (14:28.724)

Yeah, it’s part of our intake form for a retreat. Do you have any food allergies or other food restrictions? So we can just give those to Claude to create a plan for us. Or at least to start a plan for us. Yeah, we’re not just going to blindly trust. OK, rip it off the printer and give it to somebody. Here’s our shopping list. No, we don’t do that.

Kathi (14:33.347)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi (14:39.843)

It’s amazing. Right. No, no, no, we’re gonna verify, absolutely.

No, we don’t do that. But here’s what I love about it. It gets over the blank page. Because when I sit down to meal plan, Roger, I can’t remember anything I’ve ever cooked in my entire life. I cannot remember anything that you’ve ever liked to eat. Like I feel like I’m starting, go ahead.

Roger (15:10.676)

You sometimes ask me, what’s your favorite thing that I cook? And I always stare at you with a blank stare. It’s like, huh, I like it all. I know.

Kathi (15:21.923)

Yeah.

Which sounds fake, by the way. Okay, so here’s another way that I love to meal plan. I need to plan five days worth of packable work lunches. What do you suggest? So, you know, some of my favorite things are chicken salad, or you don’t like to give it some of your favorite things, but just, and here’s the beautiful thing. If it comes up with five days and the middle day is, well, Kathi, you could have a stuffed green pepper with, now, Roger, what would be my response to eating a stuffed green pepper for lunch?

Roger (16:04.82)

no.

Kathi (16:06.083)

No. I hate green peppers. I hate them so – Yes. So what what could I then do with Claude who’s suggesting green peppers on Wednesday and Friday?

Roger (16:09.012)

You loved me.

Roger (16:20.532)

So this is the beautiful thing about these AIs is that the chat inside of these means you can go back and forth. Thank you for that menu suggestion. I don’t really like green peppers. Can you suggest some alternatives? So it doesn’t lose track of what it’s already the conversation so far, but it can kind of pick up from there and modify things. Well, you know, you can omit the green pepper. You could substitute in a zucchini or whatever is appropriate. So it really does have that chat aspect. You’re going back and forth with the AI. That wasn’t quite right, and here’s a suggestion. It’s OK to tell it that it got it wrong. It will apologize. It’ll trip over its own feet to apologize for getting it wrong for you. And we tend to end with thank you.

Kathi (16:58.979)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:14.883)

It’s amazing.

Yes, we do because we’re people pleasers and polite. Yes But you know if the robots do rise up, I want them to think of me favorably. I’m just kidding you guys. Okay Okay, let’s talk about my absolute favorite way to use AI This this is the game changer you guys. This is the this is the everything so my prompt would be

Roger (17:19.7)

Wait.

Yes.

Roger (17:28.596)

Ha ha ha!

Kathi (17:45.219)

Here are the seven recipes I’m going to cook this week. And I would put those recipes in if I’m getting them from, you know, if I’m retyping them from a book, if I’m getting them off the internet, whatever it is. Now.

Roger (18:00.468)

So you would cut and paste the whole recipe, all seven of the recipes. OK.

Kathi (18:02.627)

I would cut and paste the whole recipe, all seven of the recipes. AI, Claude, please make me a shopping list categorized by the aisles in a grocery store. And so I’ve got my dairy, I’ve got my bakery, I’ve got my canned goods, I’ve got my produce, I’ve got my meat and seafood. Guys?

Roger (18:31.156)

and it’s all laid out for you to just pick it up while you’re shopping.

Kathi (18:35.395)

Yes, so I take that shopping list and I go through my kitchen and I’m like, okay, well, I’ve already got onions. I’ve already got canned broth. I’ve already got garlic. I’ve already got frozen chicken. And so here’s what’s left to purchase. And then I just go onto my little Sam’s Club app or I go on to Target or to Rayleigh’s, which is a local grocery store. I type it all in, I place my order and I just drive there on Wednesdays and pick up all my groceries and my life is the best it’s ever been. It makes me so happy, so, so, so happy. I can’t even stand it. Yeah.

Roger (19:11.86)

Wonder.

Roger (19:19.156)

Hey, Kathi, for folks on a super tight budget, I know you’ve also played with adding prices to that. How did that work out?

Kathi (19:23.267)

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Well, it added out really, really well. So if you want to keep like, so I would say if you’re on a super tight budget, here’s what I would say is don’t plan the recipes, plan the ingredients. So what do you already have? Maybe what’s on sale at your local grocery store or? You know, what’s in season right now if you have a garden and plant. So reverse engineer it. So this would be more like the recipe recommendations that we talked at top. And I would say, hey Claude, I’m on a super tight budget. I only have $25 for groceries this week. This is what I have in my freezer, my fridge and my pantry. Please suggest the most budget friendly but delicious recipes that I can come up with. And I also believe it’s a great idea to keep track of prices. Some people are able to keep track of prices in their head. I’m just not one of those people. But I do like to say, you know, here at Sam’s, you know, I can put my Sam’s receipt into Claude and say, can you give me the prices here for everything. So it’ll say chicken breasts are this much or garlic is this much. And I can start to keep track of those in one clod conversation. And I can say, hey, chicken at Safeway is 9 .99 for this frozen pack of breasts. Is that a better price than at Sam’s? And it will tell me.

It’s just genius. I love it so much. But figure out, tell Claude what your problem is. Is it that you don’t have enough time? You don’t have enough energy? You don’t have enough money? What is the resource that’s the most struggling for you? Here’s another thing. What if you’re in a situation where you’re living in a camper right now? Claude, I need meals that…

Kathi (21:44.003)

can be prepared in the microwave. Or, you know, like tell Claude your circumstance and Claude will help you figure it out. Claude, I live in a food desert and the only store I have near me is Dollar General. Here’s, you know, and there, you could go and either Claude will know what’s typically at Dollar General or there’s an article online that says here are the foods that are typically at Dollar General. And you can figure out what it is that you could prepare. And by the way, if you, I think it’s Dollar Tree Meals. Okay, so there’s a Instagram or Dollar Tree Meals. If you’re on a super tight budget, I would go follow her. Yeah.

Roger (22:21.78)

Thanks.

Roger (22:36.34)

It’s almost like you’re playing a guy’s grocery game with Claude, right?

Kathi (22:39.651)

It’s it’s so true because on guys grocery tape game. You’ve got a limitation of money time Energy and you know what’s available or and you’ve got this specific challenge. I mean women are okay I know some guys cook but guys it’s mostly falling to us. We are playing guys grocery game every single day We’re trying to stay in budget. We’re trying to get something on the table quickly all of that Okay, other things that you can do cooking questions. This recipe calls for buttermilk, but I don’t have any. What can I use instead? How long can I safely store cooked chicken legs in the fridge? Those are great things. So cooking questions. Nutritional analysts. If you’re trying to up your fiber or trying to lower your macros or up your macros, like whatever it is, Claude can help with that and makes meal suggestions. Batch cooking and freezer meals.

What are some good recipes for making a big batch and freezing portions for later? Or how should I prep and freeze the components for this casserole recipe so I can assemble and cook it later? I love these things. I love these things. And by the way, we’re going to put all these prompts into the into the show notes so that you can just go grab them and see what we’re working with. And finally, number seven, utilizing leftovers. I have leftover grilled vegetables and quinoa.

How can I turn them into a new meal? I think that’s such a great question. What’s a creative way to use up extra roast chicken from last night’s dinner? We’re gonna be using this a lot as our zucchinis come in. Like, we’re gonna have a million, Claude’s gonna be helping us with the zucchini and tomato question all summer long, and it’s gonna be great. Roger, did I miss anything?

Roger (24:31.956)

You know, I love the idea of using this for things like food allergies and food preferences and those kinds of things. If it’s super important to you, like it’s important for your health, Claude can certainly help, but always double check the results. Don’t ever trust it blindly. Yeah, exactly.

Kathi (24:52.099)

Trust but verify. Yeah, yeah. If you’re like, Claude said I could use Worcestershire sauce and I’m a vegetarian, that’s something new I didn’t know I could use. No, if you’re surprised by an answer, and I don’t see a lot of mistakes with Claude, but I’m always going to verify. Just like, you know, Roger, if you told me, Worcestershire sauce is vegetarian and being a vegetarian is important to me.

I love you, but I’m not gonna trust you all the time. I’m going to verify. And so we, yes. Absolutely, absolutely. Roger, this has been super fun. And I really think that this is gonna be life -changing for a lot of people who feel stressed by cooking dinner every night, because it is every night. And I think that it’s gonna be really, really important.

Roger (25:23.828)

The more important it is to you, the more important it is to check the output.

Kathi (25:45.763)

And it’s not just dinner, it’s three meals a day. And so if Claude can help, I know wanting to eat three times a day, it’s ridiculous. Thanks for hanging out with me, Raj. Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutter -Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go live the clutter -free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#653 Say Goodbye to Insomnia: How Decluttering Can Reboot Your Rest

Hey there, friend! In this eye opening episode of Clutter-Free Academy, join Kathi Lipp as she speaks with Dr. Vicki Kasper to explore the powerful and surprising link between clutter and sleep. They discuss the science behind rest, how a clutter-free environment...

#652 The Clutter Free Lifestyle: 10 Habits That Actually Work

Hey there, friend! In this encouraging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo reveal the top 10 habits they've developed since embracing a clutter-free lifestyle. This candid conversation offers listeners practical insights into how living...

#651 10 Surprising Things I No Longer Do as a Clutter-Free Mom

Hey there, friend! In this compelling episode of Clutter-Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo explore the significant and often surprising habits they've relinquished to maintain a clutter-free lifestyle. Listeners will discover insights and practical advice...

#624 Decluttering Family Heirlooms: Navigating Emotional Attachments

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 2, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Kitchen, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

624 Decluttering Family Heirlooms: Navigating Emotional Attachments

Hey there, friend! Do you ever feel like your home has become a storage unit for everyone else’s stuff?

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo address a common struggle for many listeners: what to do when family members, both parents and adult children, want to leave their belongings at your house. They discuss the challenges of being part of the sandwich generation, caught between aging parents trying to pass down heirlooms and adult children who may not have the space or desire for these items. Join Kathi and Tonya as they tackle the tough questions and offer practical advice for decluttering with compassion and clarity.

Listeners will discover:

The changing attitudes toward possessions among younger generations
How to navigate the disconnect between parents’ expectations and their children’s needs.
The importance of finding solutions that work for everyone

Whether you’re a parent looking to pass down treasured items or an adult child grappling with the influx of stuff, you’ll come away with a fresh perspective and actionable steps for creating a more peaceful, clutter-free home.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

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The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home

Homesteading [hohm-sted-ing]
noun
1. an act or instance of establishing a homestead.
2. the act of loving where you live so much that you actively ignore the fact that your house is trying to kill you on a regular basis.

For Kathi Lipp and her husband, Roger, buying a house in one of the most remote parts of Northern California was never part of the plan; many of life’s biggest, most rewarding adventures rarely are.

Kathi shares the hard-won wisdom she’s gained on her homestead journey to help you accomplish more at home, gain fresh perspective, and give yourself grace in the process. Here’s a handful of the lessons Kathi shares:

Prepare before the need arises
Everything is always in process, including us
Your best household solution is time and patience
You don’t have to do everything the hard way
Be open to new and better ways of doing things
A lot of small changes make a huge difference.
Highly practical, humorous, and inspirational, The Accidental Homesteader will encourage you to live with more peace, joy, and contentment.

Order your copy of The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home here.

Links Mentioned:

www.Tonyakubo.com

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

What are some creative ways to preserve memories and honor family history without holding onto physical clutter?

Share them in the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

Leave a note in the comment section below.
Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

Transcript

Kathi (00:00)
hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our heart is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life.

And I am here with Tonya Kubo, who is the leader over in our Clutter Free Academy Facebook group. And if you’re not a part of that, I don’t even know why not. It’s free, it’s amazing, she does such a great job there. But we are doing a new kind of episode here today. We’re calling it a mailbag episode. Tonya explain what we’re talking about here today.

Tonya Kubo (00:19)
Yeah.

Yeah, so what happens over in Clutter Free Academy, Clutter Free for Life, but it’s more pronounced over in Clutter Free Academy is, you know, folks join our community and they assume that they are the only person that struggles with clutter, or at least the only person who struggles with clutter like they do. And then they discover that there’s like, you know, we’ve got over 15 ,000 close friends in that group who have the exact same struggles as them, that they are not alone. At the same time, though, when they’re brand new, especially, they…

you know, they hesitate to ask certain questions because they don’t know what kind of response they’ll get. So oftentimes they will email me their question or they’ll send me a private message on Facebook with their question. And sometimes, you know, we’ll just have that private conversation. Other times I will generalize it and post it anonymously to the group and answer it that way. But what I realized is that our podcast listeners who aren’t in the Facebook group, they don’t get the benefit and they also don’t know.

that they can submit specific questions for us to answer here on the show. So what better way than to make all of that known is rather than is to have the mailbag episode.

Kathi (01:35)
Yes.

Okay, and I think we’re going to be doing this about once a month. So if you have a question, what’s the best way for them to ask it, Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (01:50)
Well, you know what I would love for them to do is if they are in the group, then they can just post it to the group and say, hey, Tonya, consider this for a mailbag episode and put their question there. The reason I would love that is it gives everybody in the community an opportunity to speak into it. And I think that will help us make an even better episode. So they don’t just get Tonya and Kathi’s perspective, but they get everybody’s perspective. However, if you’re not in the Facebook group and Facebook isn’t your thing, email me at Tonya at kathilipp.org.

Kathi (02:03)
Mmm, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (02:20)
and just put mailbag in the subject line and I will take care of you from there.

Kathi (02:25)
I love it. Okay, so what is today’s mailbag question?

Tonya Kubo (02:30)
Okay, so we’ve titled the this episode with you know what to do when everybody wants to leave their stuff at your house. That was not the specific question that was asked at the same time. I think that is most likely the most acute problem a lot of our listeners have. So I’m going to tell you the question and we’ll answer that specific question, but it also speaks to the title of the episode. So stick with us on this. So the question that came in,

Kathi (02:49)
Yes.

Okay.

Tonya Kubo (02:59)
was from a parent, right? So sandwich generation, right? So they’ve got, they have parents and then, you know, they’ve got adult children. And the issue that they were, well, actually it was the observation that they made was that kids these days, and I use the term kids lightly, because I think to them, I would be a kid, but live differently. Young adults live differently now than they did 30 years ago.

Kathi (03:03)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (03:29)
And so what this member was acknowledging was that, you know, when they were 19, they were married and in their first home. And that home, that very first home was furnished with things that their parents had been saving for them for when they moved out of the house, right? They brought in their hope chest. They had, you know,

Kathi (03:47)
Right.

Tonya Kubo (03:51)
the hand -me -down dining room table, so on, so forth. And they were very appreciative of those things because it gave them a great start in life. And by the time they were 21, they already had kids and they were still, they have this history of welcoming items from either their parents or from their in -laws as they were building this house out. Fast forward to today, they’ve got kids in their late 20s, early 30s.

They don’t own a home. They maybe don’t even want to own a home. They don’t have kids. So here our member has been storing all this stuff, saving it up for their kids to take to help get them that strong start as they build their new home or they live with their family and their kids don’t have that need. And so their question is like, what do I do? Right? Because it feels it.

Kathi (04:25)
Right.

Right.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (04:50)
It feels bad. It feels like being a bad parent to get rid of that stuff. Because what if the kids need So tell me your thoughts, Kathi.

Kathi (04:56)
Right. So I think it’s interesting and you know, we’re talking about that sandwich generation. I will tell you that also my mom wants to give me stuff and also my kids don’t want to take the stuff that they want. You know what I mean? Like we had, we had a

Tonya Kubo (05:11)
Mm -hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi (05:25)
a situation where all the kids had moved out of the house and they were expecting us to store all of their stuff. So there’s so many different situations to this. So I would say to our gentle listener or, you know, Clutter Free Academy member is to say, it’s time to have a heart to heart with your kids and say, do you want this stuff? Will it serve you? And if they’re saying,

Tonya Kubo (05:34)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:54)
Yes, we want that stuff, but not now. You need to make the decision. Do you have the room and the desire to keep it until they’re ready for it? Or do you need to say that’s not really going to work for us now? Because here’s what I would gently say to our Clutter Free Academy member, that having that stuff for your kids could actually be costing them money.

You know, do they need an apartment that could handle that dining room table, that hope chest, that China, whatever that is. And like you said, a lot of people don’t live that way. You know, there’s also so many articles right now about how people who are in the baby boomer generation are living in these giant houses because it makes no financial sense for them to downsize.

Tonya Kubo (06:50)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:54)
It would actually cost them money so a lot of people who are in who are Millennials who need the bigger houses can’t have the bigger houses because it doesn’t make sense for baby boomers to move out like there are so many factors here at work and It I Know this that we have some friends who are in their early 30s They don’t want the stuff they want

to be able to move their entire house in the two cars that they own. They want to be able to live in cheap apartments and live that way. So I think it’s worth having that conversation. But here’s the key, being okay with whatever your kids tell you. So if they say, we don’t want the China cabinet, we don’t want the formal dining room.

Tonya Kubo (07:32)
Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (07:53)
We don’t want those things to be okay to say, be okay with them saying that and you getting, you finding a new home for it. Now here is where I will push back on your kids having a say. If they say, I want all my stuff from my childhood, but I don’t have room for it.

Tonya Kubo (08:03)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (08:21)
then I think it’s up to the child to come back to the house and go through the stuff and say, you know, you can say, hey, I’m willing to keep two tubs of this or 10 tubs, whatever it is. You get to decide how much space you will allot to storing other people’s items. But it’s not, you have to keep it because I don’t want it. Does that make sense, Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (08:32)
Mm -hmm.

It does, it makes complete sense. Because what I’m hearing is, first of all, you as the parent have only so much responsibility in this situation. I think that’s the big thing is it’s hard for parents to realize that as children grow up, they…

eventually come to a place where they need to take responsibility for their stuff, right? It’s no longer on you to store things for me. It is on me to take possession of the things that are important to me or to find a solution to keeping those things if my lifestyle right now doesn’t fit them.

Kathi (09:12)
Mm -hmm.

Yes. Tonya, here’s what I, the other point I want to make, and then we’re going to take a break and we’ll come back and talk more about this. What I see as being a major point of contention is I, as the parent, feel you should want this stuff. And what do you do with those feelings? So we’re going to take a quick break and come right back. Okay, we’re back.

We’re talking about when everybody wants to leave their stuff at your house. So if your kids are saying, I don’t want that stuff, and you’re saying, but you will someday, can I tell you? For me, that was not true. I don’t need a thousand of my baby pictures. I don’t need my bronze shoes. I don’t need X, Y, and Z. Now,

There may be parents out there who say, but you’re going to want this and it’s not true. And we have to trust our adult children to say, no, that’s not important to me. And that’s okay. It’s okay to say, I think that we come from a long line of people who, you know, I spent so much money bronzing these shoes. And to say, well then as a…

Tonya Kubo (10:38)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:55)
as a parent, you can keep those, but as a child, I don’t have to receive those. So I think it’s okay, and we have to, as parents, say it’s okay for our kids to say, what is important to me as a parent is not necessarily important to my child, and I have to be okay with that. That the stuff does not always represent a life. And…

Tonya Kubo (11:00)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:23)
You know, when my grandmother passed away, there were a thousand things I could have taken. I think I took four and that was enough to represent my relationship with my grandmother and my mom was okay with that. And so to be okay with the amount of stuff and not put a burden on our children to say, but you’re going to regret it someday. You’re going to regret. I think we instinctually know what will be important to us even 10 to 20 years from now.

Tonya Kubo (11:31)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:53)
And there are ways of preserving those things, taking pictures of them or incorporating them into our decor. But I don’t want storage boxes of my stuff that I then have to burden my children with. And I don’t want them to have storage boxes of stuff that then have to be a burden to them.

Tonya Kubo (12:06)
Mm -hmm.

Exactly. Well, and I think, you know…

What some parents worry about, and I’m, I think some adult kids, honestly, are not willing to have the hard conversation. You know, hard conversations don’t have to be conflict conversations. But a lot of times, you know, when, when mom says, well, but you want this, right? It’s just easier to say yes than to actually take a pause and say, you know, actually, mom,

Kathi (12:35)
Right.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (12:51)
No, I don’t. You know, I’m in my fourth apartment of my adult life and I’ve never seen a need to have my baby shoes or to have this or to have that. And, you know, I had a friend one time who her mom kept storing up stuff for grandbabies and my friend was having a very difficult time conceiving. And at one point,

we were cleaning out a closet and my friend was getting rid of all these things that had been stockpiled for her future children. And she says, you know, Tonya, I am just tired of holding space for babies that refuse to make an appearance. Right. And that was her thing. She was like, you know, I haven’t given up hope, but I need to stop like taking up all this space because the baby is just not here.

Kathi (13:32)
Right, wow.

Tonya Kubo (13:44)
And I was like, you know what, you’ve got a great point. And we did, we did a ton of decluttering. And the funny story was, is a year later, she ended up pregnant and we’re talking like 12 years of trying, right? She ends up pregnant and I asked her, I said, do you have any regrets? And she was like, no, I don’t actually. She goes, do you know how depressing it would have been to go through all those boxes and how overwhelming? She’s like, now I’m just going, okay, I know exactly how much space I have. I don’t have the, I don’t need a baby to fit the things that have been stored.

Kathi (13:44)
Right.

Of course. wow.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (14:12)
I can just buy what fits the lifestyle we have.

Kathi (14:12)
Yeah.

Hmm. You know what? It’s it’s so true. You know, everybody has to right size their life. And I think that there are some of us parents who are like, if I give this to my child, I’m not going to feel guilty for not wanting it.

Tonya Kubo (14:21)
Mm -hmm.

I think ultimately that’s really what it is, right? We all want to be good parents until the day we die. And I think sometimes what we, like our definition of a good parent isn’t always the same as our kids. And I think it’s a great idea to just have that conversation like you suggest.

Kathi (14:34)
and yeah right yes

Yeah, and it’s okay. I do not feel less loved because my kids do not want my stuff. And that we have a good relationship is the ultimate legacy I want to pass down, not my things. I also think that there is a space that we have to get into where my kids are not China people or quilt people.

Tonya Kubo (15:02)
Right.

Kathi (15:23)
or whatever it is, but there are those people out there who would love and appreciate those things. And so to find those people, it doesn’t have to be my child, but there are people who appreciate those quilts. There are people who appreciate milk glass. So find the people who will actually appreciate the things and…

Tonya Kubo (15:23)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (15:51)
You know, for the children who are out there who are like, I don’t want to keep the stuff. I don’t want to keep this stuff. May I gently suggest take some of the photographs, you know, take the photographs of you as a child, take the photographs of you with your parents and display a couple of those things that will be a signal to your parents about how much you appreciate them without having to have all the stuff in your household.

Tonya, for the kids who are listening, I would gently suggest having those conversations in small doses early and often and to let your parents know how much you love them without having to have this stuff. Did your mom try to put a lot of stuff on you, Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (16:47)
My mother was a hoarder. Of course she did.

Kathi (16:49)
Of course she did. How did you, in a hoarding situation, this will be my last question for you, in a hoarding situation, how do you have that conversation? And I know hoarders don’t receive those things well, but what was, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (17:05)
I was like, you can’t have that conversation. You just can’t. So it’s the same advice I give members of our community all the time. It’s like, you have to make a decision. You can say yes to everything to keep the peace and get rid of it on your end, however you choose to. Knowing full well they’re going to ask where it is every time they come to visit you all the time. They’re going to expect to see it, to visit it, just like it’s a museum. So that’s one choice. The other choice is to say no.

and have that conflict over and over and over again because it very rarely will not let like will not end in a conflicted conversation. Or you can go to your parents’ house and say I will go through it here and throw those items, donate those items in front of them, which you have to recognize will cause them extreme grief and extreme anxiety.

Kathi (17:58)
You had to make a rule with your mom that she couldn’t leave stuff at your house, right?

Tonya Kubo (18:02)
Exactly. Everything that she came with, she had to leave with. And that was hard because from her perspective, we had all of this space. Why were we so selfish with our space? We had a garage. We didn’t need to park our cars in the garage. We could store stuff that she wanted to leave there. We had closets. I had a car trunk. Why couldn’t my stuff, why couldn’t her stuff stay in my car trunk?

Kathi (18:12)
Yeah.

It’s a heartbreak, it really is. Fortunately, most of us don’t have to deal with a true hoarder. Most of us just have to have an awkward conversation and you can do it. But if you’re a parent, know that them taking or not taking your stuff is not a sign of how much they love you. It’s a sign of how well you’ve raised them to live with less and that’s a good thing.

Tonya Kubo (18:36)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (18:55)
Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#653 Say Goodbye to Insomnia: How Decluttering Can Reboot Your Rest

Hey there, friend! In this eye opening episode of Clutter-Free Academy, join Kathi Lipp as she speaks with Dr. Vicki Kasper to explore the powerful and surprising link between clutter and sleep. They discuss the science behind rest, how a clutter-free environment...

#652 The Clutter Free Lifestyle: 10 Habits That Actually Work

Hey there, friend! In this encouraging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo reveal the top 10 habits they've developed since embracing a clutter-free lifestyle. This candid conversation offers listeners practical insights into how living...

#651 10 Surprising Things I No Longer Do as a Clutter-Free Mom

Hey there, friend! In this compelling episode of Clutter-Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo explore the significant and often surprising habits they've relinquished to maintain a clutter-free lifestyle. Listeners will discover insights and practical advice...

#623 – 10 Ways to Buy Less Clothing

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jun 25, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Podcast, DIY, Home, Kitchen, No Buy July, Podcast, tips and ideas | 1 comment

Listen Now

623 10 Ways to Buy Less Clothing

Feeling overwhelmed with your clothing budget and need some help?

In this episode, Kathi Lipp and her co-host Tonya Kubo provide busy women with practical strategies to curb clothing purchases while still loving your wardrobe. With 10 doable tips, listen how they:

Use Pinterest for clothes you already own
Create a capsule wardrobe
Take advantage of a personal uniform

Whether you’re a mom managing ever-changing clothing needs for kids or a woman who wants to balance style and space, this episode provides the encouragement and tactics you need. Join Kathi and Tonya as they discuss real-life ways to shop smarter and use what you own.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home

Homesteading [hohm-sted-ing]
noun
1. an act or instance of establishing a homestead.
2. the act of loving where you live so much that you actively ignore the fact that your house is trying to kill you on a regular basis.

For Kathi Lipp and her husband, Roger, buying a house in one of the most remote parts of Northern California was never part of the plan; many of life’s biggest, most rewarding adventures rarely are.

Kathi shares the hard-won wisdom she’s gained on her homestead journey to help you accomplish more at home, gain fresh perspective, and give yourself grace in the process. Here’s a handful of the lessons Kathi shares:

Prepare before the need arises
Everything is always in process, including us
Your best household solution is time and patience
You don’t have to do everything the hard way
Be open to new and better ways of doing things
A lot of small changes make a huge difference.
Highly practical, humorous, and inspirational, The Accidental Homesteader will encourage you to live with more peace, joy, and contentment.

Order your copy of The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home here.

Links Mentioned:

Rit Dye

Shout Color Catchers

Hate Stains (Kathi’s favorite stain remove)

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

What things can you do to help you save during “No Buy July?”

Share them the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

Leave a note in the comment section below.
Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

Transcript

Kathi (00:00)
Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps every day to have less clutter and more life. And I am back with Tonya Kubo, and I’m not even joking, guys, this is our fourth time trying to record this episode. We really want you to have this information but apparently there are forces that do not want you to. And this isn’t about shame or guilt or fear. This is about buying less clothing. So I think it’s big clothing that is really messing with this podcast, Tonya Well, welcome back for the fourth time.

Tonya Kubo (00:33)
Ha ha!

Thanks for having me yet again!

Kathi (00:43)
Yet again, so guys, it’s so interesting. So we’re diving into this this coming month. We want you to have normally we’re talking about how to get stuff out of your house. But this a lot of our episodes a lot of our content this month is about bringing less stuff into your home. And so we’ve talked about that with food. I feel like clothing for us cluttery friends is one of those things where it’s very easy to Buy more than maybe we even love use or would buy again and Tanya you and I have talked about this before I would not consider you necessarily a clothes horse You always look cute. You just went to a wedding where you looked adorable You you you’ve had so many celebrations this month and you always look great

Tonya Kubo (01:35)
haha

Kathi (01:41)
I want to approach this from somebody who does probably, I like to buy clothes. Like that’s my thing. And since my body size has changed a lot over the past year, I’ve been buying more clothes. But you have two girls who are very into clothes for very different reasons. You’ve got Lily.

Tonya Kubo (01:49)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (02:08)
the the recycler, the upcycler, the she likes to buy from what am I trying to say there’s a word for she’s a thrifter that’s the word I’m looking for

Tonya Kubo (02:20)
Yes, Lily enjoys thrifting.

Kathi (02:24)
And then we have Abby who likes bright shiny things. Is this an accurate description of our two girls here?

Tonya Kubo (02:30)
Yes, yes, I would say so Lily wants nothing that is brand new or comes from a traditional store. Like she only wants thrift stuff and she will not set foot in a store unless she specifically needs an item.

Kathi (02:38)
Mm -hmm.

that’s really interesting. And then Abby, if she could have a brand new piece of clothing every single day, I’m sure that that would not be a problem for her.

Tonya Kubo (02:54)
That would actually not be enough. If she could have five new outfits a day, that might come close to meeting her needs.

Kathi (02:57)
Yeah.

I’ll never forget the first time she was really here at the Red House with us. And there were costume changes at least five times the first day she was here. There was an eating outfit. There was an outdoor outfit. There was a pre -bath outfit. There was an after bath outfit. So, but.

Tonya Kubo (03:14)
Yeah, we’re down to about three now. Three a day.

Hahaha

Kathi (03:28)
I do love clothes. I love them as an expression of who I am. And I do think that because I work full time and I’m on camera a lot, that there are, you know, I would like to have certain clothes and I would like to have those clothes be a reflection of who I am. So I also know though, that I can buy clothes mindlessly if I’m not intentional. And I’m really working on being intentional this year. So we have 10 ideas for about bringing less clothing into your life, but still getting to be the expressive person you are. So I’m going to start. And this is something that I’ve been doing that I feel like is really helping with my creative expression. And that is using Pinterest and other programs to put together outfits with clothes I already own. So.

Tonya Kubo (04:24)
Mmm.

Kathi (04:26)
I have clothes that work for me and I like to research. I would say that I’m probably a little bit more on the, well, I want to be on the boho artistic side of clothing. And so I don’t like things that are super fitted. I would like the clothing to be away from my body.

Tonya Kubo (04:42)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Kathi (04:51)
I also like to have things that are a little weird a little funky not always you know I’ve got my go -to stuff, but I like more of like buckle or Eileen Fisher those kind of things then You know I am definitely not preppy or anything like that and so I like to go on to Pinterest and Also, I am now considered midsize. Which means from probably like a 12 to an 18 size which Sometimes can fit into traditional clothing sizes, but sometimes fits in the plus size. It’s no man’s land it is hard out here for the midsize and Because things feel too small or too big it’s very hard to find exactly what I need So I like using Pinterest to kind of figure out how to put together things that I already have because it’s easier to

Tonya Kubo (05:20)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (05:50)
to put together outfits from things I already have than to go try to find something that fits, that doesn’t need to be altered. I would rather just stick to the clothes that I have and make sure that those work. And I already know I feel comfortable in them. I have certain pieces of clothing that I wanna wear till Jesus comes back. They just make me feel good. So I would rather find new ways to put those together with the jewelry I have, with…

Tonya Kubo (06:11)
Yeah

Kathi (06:18)
You know, and yes, I will buy something new every once in a while, but I want to use what I have instead of bringing new things into my life. Okay, number two, Tanya.

Tonya Kubo (06:31)
Yeah. So for number two, you know, I love how you’re talking about using more of what you have for me with two girls whose body sizes are constantly changing because they are not yet grown up. And then with me, what I have found is it is very easy to lose track of who has what, right? And so I think it’s really important to go through your closet and

Kathi (06:42)
Yeah.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (06:59)
take a really good inventory. I mean, if this is for yourself, you can take a very specific inventory. For kids, it’s a little hard because you actually never know where all their clothes are. Some might be in the car, some might be in the wash, but really looking for what are the true gaps? Because it’s one thing to be like, gosh, I wish I had a white sweater. And it’s a whole other thing to actually need a white sweater. So I think it’s important to go through,

Kathi (07:10)
Yeah.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (07:27)
everything at least twice a year and check everything from socks to underwear to outerwear and anything in between. And then make a list of the specific items you feel like you need to buy. And then I think prioritize that list according to season and need. So for us, you just mentioned we had a bunch of special occasions. Our girls don’t have dressy attire, right? They’re just kind of heading toward the end of the year. We knew they needed outfits for graduation. We also knew that I, as a mom, did not need a special outfit for graduation, but we all needed different outfits for the weddings that we’ve recently attended because one wedding was super formal, the other weddings were very casual. And it’s so nice when you can go in with an inventory and actually specifically decide, these are the gaps to fill. These are how many items I need to fill each gap.

Kathi (08:13)
Hmm.

Yeah, and I think being thoughtful about those things in advance, so you’re not panic buying, you’re not ordering a bunch of stuff online and praying that something works. I know I had an event that I needed something altered for, and it took me forever to find what I was looking for.

Tonya Kubo (08:38)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (08:50)
and I had to have a panic alteration and now I have found the alteration person. I’m so grateful. it makes a huge, right? My person is, she works out of her house. She’s very professional. She has a studio in her house, but like right now I’m kind of saving up things to take her all at once and God bless her. God bless her because now I have,

Tonya Kubo (08:55)
Same! I’ve been searching for years and finally found someone.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (09:20)
the pants that will work and the shirt. I don’t wanna panic buy anymore. And what you just talked about, identifying gaps in your wardrobe and saying, hey, do we have special occasions coming up or do we have special needs? I do an annual trip to Mexico with Encourage. And I know about that trip long in advance, but it’s hard to find things in March that…

Tonya Kubo (09:23)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (09:46)
are good for Mexico in April. So like, I just have to think about those things in advance. Okay, number three, give yourself a yearly limit on new clothes purchases. Now for some people, this might be a hundred items. I do not live in that reality, but one year I did, okay, I’m only buying 12 things this year. Now I could not have done that last year because of my changing body, but I am highly considering this for the coming year.

Tonya Kubo (09:49)
true.

Kathi (10:16)
Because the things that when I did this it was like two or three years ago that I did this and I was in a different size body I still have all those pieces. I’ve had them altered. I Because I love them so much. There was no panic buying there was no You know like this will be fine or maybe this would be good. No like those 12 items. It was once a month

Tonya Kubo (10:27)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:45)
Those are things that I love, continue to use and I would buy again. So I bought really long lasting pieces, things that I invested in. Now I will say these were more expensive pieces. These were things that it was like, yes, I wanna have this. But I know me, I am a compromiser. Like I want that hit, I wanna.

Tonya Kubo (11:04)
Mm.

Kathi (11:14)
buy something and I want to feel good in it. And when I buy those kind of compromised pieces, they don’t last. And so giving yourself a limit of what you can buy makes it so you’re more thoughtful, you’re probably saving up for those things and you’ll probably wear them longer and love them more. So I don’t know, you know, something to consider. You can’t really do that with kids

Tonya Kubo (11:41)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (11:44)
I get that because when their bodies change, you have to change with them. But.

Tonya Kubo (11:49)
Yes. And well, and I think it’s one of those things is everybody can come up with their own variation. So something we did that’s similar, if I can just jump in here, is I grew up in an environment where you went clothing shopping twice a year, right? Beginning of the fall semester, beginning of the spring semester. And what we found is that actually makes zero logical sense for us because our girls go through growth spurts at odd times.

Kathi (11:56)
Yeah.

Please.

Yes.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (12:18)
You know, we had a situation where we did the school shopping thing in August and in October, Abby’s shoes were too tight. And when we took her to the store, we left with shoes that were three sizes bigger than the shoes we walked into the store with. Now, if I had bought her, you know, two pairs of shoes or three pairs of shoes in August, that would have been barely worn shoes that were in the donate pile. So what we do is we’re like, OK, how would.

Kathi (12:31)
Wow.

Yeah. Right.

Tonya Kubo (12:46)
exactly do we need right now to fill this gap? And then we just know that we may be back at the store buying a couple more shirts, a couple more pairs of pants, who knows what, in a couple of months. So I think that’s the other piece is maybe just limiting how much you buy at any one visit, especially if you’re shopping for people who are on growth spurts or have a growth spurt coming.

Kathi (13:00)
Yes, I think so.

I love it. Yep, exactly. You know, you have to work for what, you know, and when we were growing up, you would go to the big city to buy those clothes. And that’s not really how people live anymore. I mean, some of us do, but for the most part. Okay, number four, Tanya.

Tonya Kubo (13:19)
Mm -hmm.

So this is another great one for kids, but it’s also a great one if you are someone whose wardrobe is nearing the capacity of the space you have to store your clothing. So whether that’s dressers or closets or whatever, which is implementing a one in one out policy, right? For every new item you buy, donate or sell an existing item. You know, only like when you’re at the store, be thinking what item do I have at home that this item replaces?

Kathi (13:50)
Yes.

Tonya Kubo (13:57)
if it’s not filling a gap that you’ve already identified. And I feel like this has done a great job of teaching my girls how to manage the ebb and flow of stuff into their own spaces. So that’s sort of my thought. Like, I don’t know, maybe I’m overly romantic, but I just feel like it’s a great way without shame or judgment to teach clutter -free principles to younger people.

Kathi (14:14)
Yes, I, I, I.

Tonya, can I tell you how I have implemented this in two very practical ways? One, I have a clothes hamper for things I’m gonna donate. So those go into the clothes hamper, once they’ve been washed, they go into that clothes hamper, and when that’s full, I take it to our local donation center. Also, I have a set number of hangers, and everybody can determine their number of hangers. But if my drawers are not closing,

Tonya Kubo (14:41)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:56)
Or I don’t, I’ve run out of hangers, it means I have too many clothes. And that I need to go and curate that wardrobe. Okay, number five. Wait before you buy. So you might, if you are an impulse shopper, and I would say I lean towards that. I know a lot of people struggle with it way more than I do, but I do lean towards it. I would say,

Tonya Kubo (15:01)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (15:24)
Can you give yourself a seven day waiting period? If it’s not on sale, consider ordering that item to try on at home. Maybe to say, hey, I’m gonna try this on at home. I have a hard time trying things on like in dressing rooms. I don’t know why. If you do.

Tonya Kubo (15:35)
Mm -hmm.

Because you get sweaty and gross as somebody who spent some time in the dressing room last week, I will just tell you, ew.

Kathi (15:51)
Yes, yes, I don’t like it and especially with buying jeans. Can I just say buying jeans? I found some jeans at Target that worked for me and I ordered two more pairs because I’m like if I don’t have to try on jeans for another year, year and a half, that’s a good thing. It’s a really good thing. Keep the tags on until you actually wear it. In case you want to return it if you’re just not feeling it.

Tonya Kubo (16:08)
It’s a good life.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (16:19)
Then it’s okay to return that and be a good returner. That’s the thing I think that’s the most important thing. I only buy from places that are really good about returns Nordstrom is really good about returns Old Navy is really good about returns Target is really good about returns Macy’s I have found is not so I don’t buy from them anymore I have to know that it’s I need to not be shamed during a return

Tonya Kubo (16:23)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Mmm.

You

Kathi (16:48)
And I have never had an ounce of shame from Nordstrom Target or Old Navy. They’ve been like, yeah, bring it back, it’s fine. And now I have bought things on clearance that I could no longer return. And I’m like, you know, somebody is going to love this. Okay, Tonya, we’re gonna take a break. We’re gonna go get this podcast paid for. And then we come back, you’re gonna talk about a capsule wardrobe. And I cannot wait to hear your thoughts on that. So.

Tonya Kubo (17:00)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:17)
We’re gonna go and come right back. Okay, we are back. Number six, Tonya, of how to buy less clothing.

Tonya Kubo (17:24)
Yay! Bring in the tip from the person who’s probably like the least proactive in handing out wardrobe advice. But I have to say that as somebody who doesn’t do a lot of clothes shopping, as somebody who just doesn’t enjoy like this whole experience of dressing myself, having items that easily mix and match.

Kathi (17:32)
No!

Tonya Kubo (17:49)
has been a game changer for me. And there’s two reasons. I live in a tiny house, right? Okay, not the official tiny home, but I live in a smaller home. We have two closets in this house. And so I need my clothes to take up as little space as possible. So I love having just a few pieces that work together, whether that is, you know, I know some people really like tank, like shells, right? So like little dressy tanks that you can pair with a bunch of different cardigans or a couple of cardigans for different looks. Same thing with short sleeve shirts or long sleeve shirts. I know some people like to dress things up with a vest, but for me, it’s really about finding fewer pieces. And this goes back to what you were saying earlier. They do, I find, need to be well -made. If you want to embrace the capsule wardrobe, these need to be pieces that can stand up to being worn three to five times in a week which in fast fashion, a lot of times those clothes are made thinking you’re gonna wear them maybe once a month. So you wanna be able to have clothes that can actually stand up to regular wear, which means they’re also standing up to regular washing and drying or hanging to dry and really looking at what are the pieces that just feel like you, that you’re okay wearing frequently. I’m a fan of color schemes, so I wear a lot of black and white with a little bit, like my favorite color is purple.

Kathi (18:46)
Yeah. Right.

Tonya Kubo (19:12)
I like to wear purples in varying tones. I don’t enjoy lavender, but like bright deep tones. I like magenta’s, any shade in the purple family, any shade in the pink family. I don’t do a lot of green. I don’t do a lot of blue, but I find that I get enough variety in just having black, white, a little bit of gray, some purple, some pink, and I’m happy.

Kathi (19:32)
Yeah, you know, and I think that that’s a really good point. You can go onto Pinterest and you can find color schemes that you can use and you can say, no, these are Kathi colors. And I was just at Moose’s oncologist and you know, I hate going there because of why we have to go there, but it is the most warm and loving.

Tonya Kubo (19:46)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (20:00)
Human being collection you will ever find and we just love those people and Ashley who is the receptionist every time I go in there she’s like I I love Your colors. I love what you wear. And so I I dress up for Ashley now I really do because she just makes me feel so good. What’d you say Tonya? Right and

Tonya Kubo (20:18)
dress up for somebody. I said you gotta dress up for somebody why not Ashley?

Kathi (20:26)
You know she goes you always wear these warm tones And it just makes me feel like you are so loving and approachable and she goes and I know you are loving it approach and I’m like, okay colors Can make us feel a certain way and so find the colors that make you feel that certain way I think that’s really really important. Okay number seven We’ve already talked a little bit about this but repair or alter clothing you already own. I have a pair of Jag pants

Tonya Kubo (20:39)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (20:55)
These are they’re like cargo pants. I’ve had them I’m not exaggerating for at least 15 years and If you turn them inside out there you can see the history of these clothing They’ve been taken in a couple of times my mom offered to take them in one more time and then they have patches on the inside of them where I was developing whole

Tonya Kubo (21:03)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (21:19)
I love these pants so much. I love them. Like if I could have one piece of clothing that’s like these are the most Kathi clothing, these are my favorite. But like Tanya and I find that alterations person that you’re just like, okay, they can perform miracles and they can do it when you need them to do it. I’ve got my person, she’s in Roseville. So it’s a bit of a hike. But we have to go to Roseville anyway because that’s where Moose has her oncology appointments. And I can take my things there and she has a room for me to change in and she pins it and she will have it done the next day. Now I don’t come back at least for a week, but it’s done. It’s done. And alterations are not cheap, but factor that into the purchase of the clothing, especially if you’re short. I’m not

Tonya Kubo (21:50)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (22:13)
short but I’m 5 ‘6 which is an inch taller than the average woman in the United States and I still have to have all my pants altered so I just factor that in now but you have found your person I have found my person it’s like finding that hairstylist isn’t it Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (22:20)
Mm -hmm.

Right, well and to your point, it’s if you can find your person who does alterations and have them be your person, then you will over time learn how much certain repairs cost to factor those into the purchase. Right, like we just took Lily’s graduation dress in, we just needed the straps to be shortened a little bit, that was $10. I found out during that same visit that having your pants hemmed,

Kathi (22:44)
Yes. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (22:58)
is $10. Having a seam repair is $8. So now I know if something happens to a shirt of mine or whatever, it’s like, okay, do I want to pay $8 to have the seam repaired or not? Right? And I think that can be so helpful versus going, my gosh, my favorite shirt just tore. It is irreplaceable. It is irreparable. Now I have to go buy a new shirt because I don’t know about you, Kathi but before I under like before I had,

Kathi (22:59)
Wow.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (23:28)
tailors to work with, I would just assume, well, it’s cheaper to buy a new shirt.

Kathi (23:33)
Right. And we don’t want to be wasteful like that. Yes, absolutely.

Tonya Kubo (23:36)
And sometimes, don’t get me wrong, it is cheaper to buy a new thing. But not always.

Kathi (23:41)
Yes, but is it better? That’s the question. Is it better to buy a new thing? Okay, number eight, Tanya. We’re gonna blow through these.

Tonya Kubo (23:45)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, so this is a big one, right? Which is unsubscribe from the emails that tempt you to do more shopping. Right? Like I, some people have better self -control than others, right? You can get hit every single day with a Kohl’s ad and never open that ad. Yay for you. Other people need to open it each time because there might be something here that I can’t live without that wasn’t in yesterday’s email.

Kathi (24:00)
Hmm, it’s so true.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (24:20)
So if you are that person who really just can’t not open them, then unsubscribe and trust that when you’re ready to go to that store again, you can subscribe again and usually you will get the first time customer deal, whatever that deal is. So you don’t have to worry about, there’s some great deal that I’m going to miss. The other thing that you can do if you really do feel like you want to stay on that email list because of something that may happen down the line and you want to know what they’re offering, use your email filters. Every email service provider has a filter. I just actually, I’ve been doing this, Kathi, you would be so proud of me, 20 minutes a day. I’ve been spending 20 minutes a day. I just go through the emails I’m getting and I just set up filters. And so now I have filters set up in my inbox, as of today, by the way. I have a whole shopping folder.

Kathi (25:02)
What?

Wow.

Tonya Kubo (25:16)
And then I have one that’s for under shopping. I’ve got one for groceries, one for restaurants, and one for like miscellaneous stuff, which was really the clothing shops. And I have it set now. It bypasses my inbox. So it instantly archives the email and it puts it in this folder. I never see it.

Kathi (25:35)
That is amazing. That is amazing. I do it a little differently. I have a totally different email for all those things. And so if I’m looking for it, I can go get it. Like this, we’re recording this the week of my birthday and there are all these like discounts and free little offers and things like that. Like, you know, I’m going to be jamming through all that stuff. And I, but it doesn’t tempt me in my regular email. And that’s a beautiful thing. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (25:42)
Mm -hmm.

Right.

Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (26:05)
Number nine, this is the question I ask myself. Will I wear this 30 times? I don’t know why I came up with the number 30, but will I wear this 30 times? And if the answer is no, then why am I buying it? Or if I’m trying to justify when I could wear this 30 times. Now, there are certain exceptions. Some dress clothes, I probably will not wear 30 times, but if it’s something that it’s like it’s for a special occasion that kind of thing I’m okay if it’s less but could I wear this to a wedding on a cruise? To church could I have it altered to wear a different way? I think it’s just an interesting question and number 10 Tonya

Tonya Kubo (26:56)
Yeah, so number 10, I feel like is how I live my life, which is create a personal uniform with a few key pieces you love. So I already talked about this a little bit in that, you know, I like black, white with a splash of purple or pink in it. And that makes a lot of sense for me. It works for my lifestyle. What it also does is it ensures that almost anything I pull out of the closet will go with whatever I’m wearing.

Kathi (27:05)
Yes. Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (27:26)
I discovered recently that, you know, I had a couple of things that were printed. I don’t usually wear a lot of prints. I’ll wear usually solid colors, but I had a couple of things that were printed and it was like, you know, trying to put a cardigan over it, but the cardigan hit like the wrong part of the print. And I was just like, I do not need printed things. Right. And most of these were just because of the way that the graphic was, but I would just say a personal uniform. Like for me,

Kathi (27:26)
Yes.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (27:54)
I know Monday through Friday, I am going to be wearing jeans because I almost never leave the house except if I’m taking kids to school or from, but I’m going to wear jeans. And if I’m recording, I’m going to wear a nicer top. And if I’m not recording, I’m going to wear a t -shirt. And it takes me like six minutes to get ready in the morning because I have that personal uniform, but it also,

Kathi (28:10)
Yep, there you go.

Tonya Kubo (28:19)
And Kathi, I want you to talk a little bit about this, because I feel like you are somebody who has actually taught on this more than I ever have, is I’m actually more productive because I haven’t wasted valuable energy making those decisions first thing in the morning.

Kathi (28:33)
Yeah, you know, I have to decide the night before what I’m wearing or the week before. You know, I put that all out because in the morning I need to hit the ground running like you do. I need to know what I’m wearing because I need to know what my day is going to consist of. So, you know, almost every day I’m recording something like we are today. And so I’ve got a cute top on. I’ve got some pants on.

Tonya Kubo (28:36)
Yeah.

Kathi (29:02)
Now, there are days where I’m going to be cooking all day because, you know, I’ve got a cookbook coming out and that’s probably going to be more of a yoga pant jean kind of, you know, situation. And so knowing what my day is going to be and I love the concept. Somebody told me this like 20 years ago and I love this. Getting dressed to the shoes. So looking what your day is going to be like.

Tonya Kubo (29:28)
Hmm.

Kathi (29:31)
not flopping around in slippers and then having to figure it out all day. Like I’ve got indoor shoes. I’ve got indoor shoes that I wear to keep my, you know, to not track the outside in. I learned that deeply when we had chickens and it just makes a lot of sense. Tonya, I’m gonna give a bonus. This is 11, but we didn’t really do 11.

Tonya Kubo (29:50)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:58)
This is gonna be a weird one, but I think it’s really it’s been something I’ve been doing a lot lately dying my clothes Some okay

Tonya Kubo (30:07)
I need to hear more. No, no, we did not talk about this, so you’re gonna have to dig a little deeper and hear from me.

Kathi (30:12)
Yes, so I have some clothing that I love, but maybe it’s gotten a stain on it. Or we have a friend of the podcast who sent me a lovely shirt for that chicken themed shirt. It’s a bright pink. Now, I realized I was not wearing it. Redheads and pink don’t always go great together. Just not going to lie.

Tonya Kubo (30:39)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (30:41)
So what I have done is I bought some Rit fabric dye and I have some bonder. It’s like a bonding agent that you do with the Rit dye. And you have to, when you’re dyeing, ask me how I know this, you need a big pot so that the clothes are not like on top of each other. You want them to be kind of loose in the pot.

Tonya Kubo (30:46)
Mm -hmm.

Hmm.

Kathi (31:10)
And I tend to dye things a navy blue, because that’s a color I like to wear. But any rich color, like a forest green or a navy blue or a deep purple could probably work for this. I don’t tend to go lighter in my dyeing. I’m not that skilled. But like I said, a forest green, a dark purple, a red would be really good.

Tonya Kubo (31:19)
Mm -hmm.

Got it.

Kathi (31:39)
any of those darker or deeper colors and then I I dye the clothes and then I wash the clothes and When I wash the clothes again just the first time Shout has these things called color catchers that Yes, and so my mom’s a quilts artist. She uses those quite often and so those color catchers catch the color you know the first time you wash them

Tonya Kubo (31:58)
Yes, I’ve seen those.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (32:09)
But I have saved a lot of clothing that I really, really love by dyeing it a navy. And I’m not re -buying the clothes, I’m buying the dye, which I usually buy at Joann’s and I wait till I have a coupon and things like that. But I’ve saved a lot of sweatshirts, a lot of t -shirts, pants, because I have dyed them a navy blue.

Tonya Kubo (32:17)
Mmm.

Mm -hmm.

Okay, so now I have to ask a question. This is of course on behalf of the listeners. I have no personal stake in the answer to this question. But how, right, how does that work with like stained clothing? Like if you have grease stains on something, would dyeing fix that or no?

Kathi (32:40)
Of course, you’re in service to them.

Yeah. So I try to get out as much of the stain as possible. I use, now I can’t remember the name of the stain remover I use, but I will find it and I will post it. And it’s a special formulation that really gets a lot of stains out. As long as this can be as light as possible, I feel, and here’s the thing. I dye dangerously. Like if I dye something and it doesn’t come out how I would like it to, I’m okay with that because I was probably gonna pitch that piece of clothing anyway. So I get as much of the stain out as I possibly can and then I die dangerously and I would say 19 times out of 20 I have saved that piece of clothing. And yeah, so I’m glad you like that. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (33:18)
Hahaha.

Mm -hmm. Got it.

Nice.

Kathi (33:46)
Tanya, we are doing something interesting in the month of July in Clutter Free Academy. Can you talk a little bit about this?

Tonya Kubo (33:52)
We are.

Yeah, so each July we typically do this challenge in Clutter Free Academy, which is our free Facebook group. We also do it in our paid membership program, Clutter Free for Life, which is a no buy July, right? Where our goal is to not have any discretionary spending. However, this year we’re doing things a little bit differently in that we are having a low buy July challenge. And the reason we’re doing a low buy July challenge is for a couple of reasons. First of all. We love our cluttery people. Our cluttery people want so desperately to be A++ students in everything that we host, because they are such super fans of all things clutter free and clutter free for life. And the problem is, is our members would get really upset if they had something unexpected happen. For instance, the refrigerator would die, the washing machine died, and they’d say, I failed the challenge because I had to go buy a new washer. And what you realize, Kathi, so credit goes to Kathi, send all your kudos and compliments via email to her.

Kathi (35:01)
complaints, we’re fine with that too.

Tonya Kubo (35:03)
Yeah, usually I take the complaints. You can have the compliments, but Kathi’s, you know, pointed out that it kind of shifted the focus away from where it really needs to be. The goal here is to minimize the amount of clutter coming into your home by minimizing impulse buying and reducing the amount of discretionary spending we do because we know that costs are going up all the time. So a low buy July isn’t so much about

Kathi (35:05)
Yeah

Tonya Kubo (35:30)
what you do or don’t buy. It’s really about the intention that goes into each buying decision in the month of July. And I think Kathi, you are the one who said, like, this is the kind of principle that can get carried on throughout the year. It doesn’t live and die in the month of July each year.

Kathi (35:50)
I will tell you, Tanya, we’ve done this no buy July a couple of times, now we’re doing low buy July, and I am amazed how starting in July, we buy almost nothing from Amazon. It’s amazing. And August, September, October, we buy almost nothing from Amazon. And then starting in, you know, January, February, we start to buy more from, well, December really, because of Christmas and stuff like that. But it really does change our habits. Now it changes our habits for about six months and then we start to fall back into old habits. But we’re getting better and better every year. And let me give you an idea of how I think low buy versus no buy can really set us free.

Tonya Kubo (36:29)
Right.

Kathi (36:43)
You know, we just talked about dyeing our clothes, right? by the way, also black. If you like to wear black, black is a great color to dye your clothes. Yeah, there you go, there you go. But in a low buy July, one of the activities I would love to see you do is buy the dye so that you could save the clothes.

Tonya Kubo (36:46)
Mm -hmm.

I was thinking I’m just gonna dye everything black.

oooo

Kathi (37:11)
Do you see what I’m saying? Like that small purchase, you know, you’re not buying clothes in July, I’m hoping, you know, or you’re buying just a couple of things. But what’s a great activity to save some of those clothes or to keep you from buying new black cargo pants, new black t -shirts, you dye the stuff you already have. You know, if you have a bunch of eggs at your house and instead of,

Tonya Kubo (37:29)
Mm.

Kathi (37:41)
buying the angel food cake, you say, I’m gonna make it, but you don’t have the cake flour? I’d love for you to go buy the cake flour so that you can learn this new skill and you can make your own angel food cake. Those are the kind of things that I would love for you to see you incorporate into a low buy July. So you have these new skills that will carry you forward.

into not wasting food, into not buying clothes. That’s the kind of ingenuity and coolness I want to see in a low buy July

Tonya Kubo (38:18)
Right, and what I’m really looking forward to, and I hope if you are listening and you’re not in the Clutter Free Academy Facebook group, I really hope you’ll join us this month because what I’m looking forward to is the creativity. We have some of the most creative, generous members you can possibly imagine. And I just know that this year with this difference in focus, they are going to knock our socks off with some of the ways that they choose to implement these principles.

Kathi (38:30)
Yes.

Guys, this was a super -sized episode, but I think we had some great conversations, and I hope you will join us over in the Clutter Free Academy Facebook group. We’ll put the link here in the notes, but if you just search for Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy, it’s free to join, and you’re gonna love the encouragement you’re gonna get this year. Tanya, thanks so much for being here.

Tonya Kubo (39:12)
Thanks for having me.

Kathi (39:13)
And friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp Now, go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#653 Say Goodbye to Insomnia: How Decluttering Can Reboot Your Rest

Hey there, friend! In this eye opening episode of Clutter-Free Academy, join Kathi Lipp as she speaks with Dr. Vicki Kasper to explore the powerful and surprising link between clutter and sleep. They discuss the science behind rest, how a clutter-free environment...

#652 The Clutter Free Lifestyle: 10 Habits That Actually Work

Hey there, friend! In this encouraging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo reveal the top 10 habits they've developed since embracing a clutter-free lifestyle. This candid conversation offers listeners practical insights into how living...

#651 10 Surprising Things I No Longer Do as a Clutter-Free Mom

Hey there, friend! In this compelling episode of Clutter-Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo explore the significant and often surprising habits they've relinquished to maintain a clutter-free lifestyle. Listeners will discover insights and practical advice...

#622 The Frugal Foodie’s Playbook: Mastering Meal Planning and Smart Shopping

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jun 18, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Kitchen, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

622 The Frugal Foodie’s Playbook: Mastering Meal Planning and Smart Shopping

Hey there, friends! Are you feeling the pinch of rising food costs?

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp, and Tonya Kubo tackle the timely issue of rising food costs and share practical tips to help listeners save money on groceries without sacrificing quality or taste. With their signature humor and relatable examples, Kathi and Tonya dive into strategies like meal planning, inventive use of leftovers, and tapping into community resources.

Listeners will discover:

How to create a pantry and fridge inventory to reduce food waste
The power of “loop meals” and repurposing leftovers
Tips for buying in bulk wisely

Whether you’re taking part in the Low Buy July challenge or simply looking to trim your grocery budget, this episode is packed with actionable advice and encouragement. Don’t miss out on these frugal food hacks that will help you nourish your family without breaking the bank!

Here are the 50 Breakfast and 50 Dinner Ideas mentioned in the episode.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

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The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home

Homesteading [hohm-sted-ing]
noun
1. an act or instance of establishing a homestead.
2. the act of loving where you live so much that you actively ignore the fact that your house is trying to kill you on a regular basis.

For Kathi Lipp and her husband, Roger, buying a house in one of the most remote parts of Northern California was never part of the plan; many of life’s biggest, most rewarding adventures rarely are.

Kathi shares the hard-won wisdom she’s gained on her homestead journey to help you accomplish more at home, gain fresh perspective, and give yourself grace in the process. Here’s a handful of the lessons Kathi shares:

Prepare before the need arises
Everything is always in process, including us
Your best household solution is time and patience
You don’t have to do everything the hard way
Be open to new and better ways of doing things
A lot of small changes make a huge difference.
Highly practical, humorous, and inspirational, The Accidental Homesteader will encourage you to live with more peace, joy, and contentment.

Order your copy of The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home here.

Links Mentioned:

USDA FoodKeeper app

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

How do you reduce food waste or save money?

Share them the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

Leave a note in the comment section below.
Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

Transcript

Kathi (00:00)
Hey friends, welcome to clutter free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life and I am here with the fabulous but exhausted Tonya Kubo. She was partying all weekend. She saw people get married there have been graduations I is this is this podcast the most relaxing thing you’ve done all week?

Tonya Kubo (00:24)
It most certainly is.

Kathi (00:28)
Yeah, I remember I canceled something on you on Monday. I’m like, I’m so sorry. So you’re like, thank you.

Tonya Kubo (00:31)
Yes! I was like, my gosh! I just got a whole hour back in my life.

Kathi (00:39)
I am currently not experiencing those kind of weeks, but I know they are yet to come because I have a book coming out in October. And with the the couple months before and the couple months after, it’s like, somebody canceled an appointment. You are my hero. And yeah, I want to sing like Mariah Carey. And yeah, it’s it’s. But, you know,

Tonya Kubo (00:44)
Ha.

Yeah.

Right.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Kathi (01:08)
not that we’re talking about that book, but we’re talking about some of the the feelings behind that book. That book is called Sabbath Soup and we are talking about food and if you turn on if you’re on social media at all, if you turn on the news, everybody is talking about the cost of food. It’s it’s I think in some.

Tonya Kubo (01:15)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (01:34)
Areas, it’s pretty much the same. Other areas, it feels insane. We are not at the egg crisis we were several months ago. And we still had chickens at that point and we’re very, very grateful for them. But you are not the primary shopper in your house, is that correct?

Tonya Kubo (01:37)
Mm -hmm. Right.

No, unless we’re shopping online. I will do all the shopping online, but usually Brian is the one who really likes to go to the grocery store because he likes to buy stuff. He doesn’t care what he buys. He just wants to buy the stuff.

Kathi (01:58)
Mmm.

isn’t that the, it’s such, it’s so true, right? Like I was telling somebody recently, like I get the same hit if I’m buying a dress at Nordstrom or a Costco chicken. Like I just like buying stuff, which I understand is my cluttery person like aching to get out.

Tonya Kubo (02:24)
Hahaha

Kathi (02:33)
And I have to tell you, I was so proud of Roger the other day because Roger is definitely like, he loves to buy convenience. He loves it. And the other day he was bringing home sandwiches. There were some circumstances and he was bringing home sandwiches. And he said, but we’ve got drinks and chips at home. And I’m like, my thrifty buddy. He goes, I’m learning. Cause I mean, you add drinks and chips to…

Tonya Kubo (02:41)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (03:02)
a sandwich order, that can be five or six dollars.

Tonya Kubo (03:04)
yeah. Mm hmm. yeah. No, there used to be a time when, you know, like iced tea, for instance, would be like a dollar cheaper than sodas. And now everything is $4 .50 or $5. Like each beverage is $4 .50 or $5 at the restaurants where we go.

Kathi (03:12)
Right? Yeah, nope.

Yeah, we rarely go to McDonald’s. I mean, rarely. But when we do, our order is always the same. It’s two Diet Cokes, an ice water, and a hamburger, a small hamburger patty, no salt. So half that order is for Moose because she gets the patty and the ice water. Ice water is her favorite treat. And she’s such a weird dog. And then we get the Diet Cokes because it’s…

Tonya Kubo (03:36)
Mmm.

Right?

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (03:50)
It can be $30 for us. And we’re not even talking about fast food today. We’re just talking about grocery shopping. And how can we keep the costs of all things groceries down? And you have kids. So let me just say that was not a cheap choice, Tonya Yeah, you’re going to need to.

Tonya Kubo (03:52)
Mm -hmm.

Right.

Mm -hmm.

No, it really wasn’t. It wasn’t. But I don’t think anybody has kids to save money. I don’t think that’s why you go into it.

Kathi (04:20)
I would love We’re gonna we’re gonna put our ideas here Tonya But when we do and you’re the queen of all things clutter free in the Facebook group I would love to get our our members ideas about this because we’re gonna share Approximately ten ideas on how you can save on your grocery budget, but I know the the the people in that group are

They’re geniuses. There is something about cluttery people and just the ways that they think differently that I just, I love and adore I love it so much.

Tonya Kubo (04:54)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

I agree, I agree. Well, and should we talk about what we’ve got going on in the group? Yeah, because I mean, part of why we’re talking about ways to buy less food today is because we’re doing things a little differently this year, is we are going into a challenge that’s in our Clutterfree Academy free Facebook group. Anybody can join that and also our Clutterfree for Life paid membership program. It’s a little crossover. We’re calling it Low Buy July.

Kathi (05:06)
Yeah, go for it. Tell us everything.

Yeah.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (05:31)
And let me tell you, so there’s two reasons we’re calling it Low Buy July. If you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while, you remember that we oftentimes do No Buy July. There’s two problems with No Buy July. Problem number one is people have graduations and weddings and they think spending five cents automatically fails the challenge and they get very, very sad and very ashamed. Or they think they can’t replace their refrigerator that broke.

Right? And that’s not the intent of the challenge. The intent is really to minimize impulse purchases. But this year, Kathi you were the one who really pointed out that with the cost of things going up so high, people are not able to stock up like they once did. And so it’s unlikely that a lot of people have a full month’s worth of food in a freezer or in a pantry.

Kathi (06:15)
Mm -mm.

Right, right.

Tonya Kubo (06:23)
And so really we’re calling it low Buy July and we’re looking at how can we reduce our spending on all the things throughout the month. And I think food, at least in my family, Kathi, food is the highest percentage of our income outside of the mortgage. Like that, or I should say our expenses outside of the mortgage. That’s where we spend the most.

Kathi (06:26)
Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Of course, it makes total sense because you guys have four members in your family. You want them to be healthy people. And so, you know, you’re not just buying ramen for every meal because that is the cheapest way. And I know plenty of college kids who live that way. But we’re looking for a little bit higher quality of life than that. So we’re going to give you 10 tips.

Tonya Kubo (06:57)
Right.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (07:11)
That will not only reduce your grocery budget, but just keep you you It’s buying less food. That’s maybe it’s not consuming less food, but it’s it’s buying less food and I’m gonna give you my number one and Because I am the queen of buying what we already have and there’s a so for me having a day each week to clean out the fridge and just kind of

Tonya Kubo (07:18)
Mm -hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi (07:40)
Laying eyes on and seeing what we have. There’s a great tick tocker. He has a whole song go to the store by Hoonans sauce come home. no, we had Hoonans sauce go to the store, but like he has Six and if I’m pronouncing that incorrectly, please forgive me, but he has six Hoonans sauces and it’s like it’s that thing that you don’t know if you have it for sure so I

Tonya Kubo (07:57)
Mm -hmm.

Mm.

Kathi (08:10)
You don’t want to run out. And Roger did this for years with baby food, even when his kids were like in school. Like he was so terrified of running out of something they needed. And so doing that inventory is so critical and helps you save from buying things you don’t need to. You know, like this week, I’ve got some baby potatoes that.

Tonya Kubo (08:29)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (08:38)
Need you know something needs to happen with them. I’ve got some mushrooms. I’ve got some chicken that needs to get cooked like that that inventory helps me plan the rest of my meals and keeps me from wasting food and so if you can kind of there are a couple of ways to do it you can pick meals and then see what you have and then go shopping or you can see what you have plan meals around that and then go shopping so

In Low Buy July, I’m really going to challenge people to see what they have and what can you make with that.

Tonya Kubo (09:15)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (09:17)
I think that that’s going to be the best way to do it. Okay, Tonya what is your next tip that? Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (09:24)
Well, I think if your first tip, I just have to jump in because I’m so excited. Because if the first tip is inventory, fridge, freezer, pantry, then, and you touched on this a little bit, then the second tip has to be meal planning. And I think you made a really good point is that some people like to see what’s on sale and meal plan based on sales and then see what they have and then make their grocery list.

Kathi (09:33)
Mm -hmm.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (09:54)
I actually like to see what I have, just like you do, and meal plan based on what I have, because regardless of what’s on sale, I want to spend as little at the grocery store as possible. So if I can get away with just buying four things at the grocery store, and yes, please, I’ll pause for a moment so everybody can laugh, because no family of four ever gets to buy four things at the grocery store. But if I can get away…

Kathi (09:57)
Yes?

Right.

Tonya Kubo (10:19)
this week with just buying four things and then turning around and buying my normal 25 items next week, awesome. I think I’m so much further ahead than if I am consistently telling myself I have to have a big long shopping list every time I go to the store.

Kathi (10:35)
It’s so true, you know, and we have to figure out there are times when there may be nothing in the fridge and that’s okay. We can still figure out exactly, we can take that inventory, we can say, okay, you know what, I need to restock. There is no point in trying to build on this.

You know, you can’t build on celery and turnips. Like, that’s going to be the saddest soup ever. But I want you to say, okay, is there something in the freezer? Is there something I can defrost? Is there something that I can do in order to make this work so I am not having to buy everything all the time? Because I know that we can, it’s so frustrating to go buy the chicken and see the chicken in your…

Tonya Kubo (11:00)
Mm -hmm.

Right.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:30)
in your fridge or to sit and I don’t want you to have this giant back stock of freezer food so that you are not able to buy stuff. You know, it’s so I’ve done this so many times. I’m sorry, I’m getting tongue tied here, but like I’ll come home with stuff for the freezer because I don’t know what I have. And then I’m adding things to the freezer that I don’t actually need.

Tonya Kubo (11:40)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:00)
I run out of room in the freezer. It’s just, it’s a vicious cycle that I want to end and I wanna be smarter about. And I will say, I am so much better than I used to be, but it’s still something that I need to be cognizant of because when I feel like I’m running out of time, that’s where I get into trouble. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:05)
Mm -hmm.

Right. Well, anytime we feel desperate, I think, is problematic.

Kathi (12:28)
Yes, and I think especially when we’re running out of time or energy, that’s when we feel like, okay, I just need to make something happen. Okay, so number three, we’re getting into the planning space again, because I think planning is a big part of this. And so some people meal plan, like one of the things that’s been very helpful,

We’ll get this resource together because I know people have begged us for it. It was, I can’t remember if it was 30 or 50, but it was Meal Time Ideas.

Tonya Kubo (13:07)
Yes, yes, we have a breakfast one and a dinner one.

Kathi (13:11)
And I don’t know why we don’t have a lunch one, but you know what, maybe that is to come. But here’s the thing, I know when I sit down to meal plan, I can’t remember anything I’ve ever made at any point in my life ever. And I can’t think of a meal, I can’t think of an idea. And this is, this isn’t, you should make these 50 meals, otherwise you’re not a good cook. This is, check out these meals.

Tonya Kubo (13:39)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (13:39)
maybe they’ll springboard some ideas for you. So Tonya I know we have a lot of, what are your go -to meal ideas?

Tonya Kubo (13:49)
yeah, so we’re pretty simple in this house. So go to Meal Ideas for us. You know, when in doubt, Brian will oftentimes just do like pasta and a meat sauce, like if that’s available. Personally, you know, I prefer just some kind of meat and rice. And the reason I prefer that is because I can take that whatever vegetable we decide to serve with it, that gets to be repurposed into fried rice. And my family will eat

Kathi (14:17)
Mmm.

Tonya Kubo (14:18)
just about anything in the form of fried rice. So you know that like overcooked steak or the overcooked chicken, the vegetables that everybody thought were too soggy, I just chopped those up really fine, throw them in, make some fried rice and everybody’s happy.

Kathi (14:23)
yes.

Mm -hmm.

I love that so much. Okay, number four, Tanya. This is one of my favorite. Tell us a little bit about loop meals in your house.

Tonya Kubo (14:47)
yes, well I didn’t know that they were called that until I picked up your book. Let me remember, I always call it Six Chicks Freeze and Fix, but that is not what it’s called. Thank you, thank you. Kathi you may know me for 10 more years and you will still have to remind me that that is the name of the book. Yeah, but the idea of, I mean it’s two things, right? It’s first of all, cooking.

Kathi (14:56)
Yeah, it’s called the What’s for Dinner solution.

I am here for it, don’t you worry.

Tonya Kubo (15:14)
with the intention of having leftovers that you can repurpose. But also what I have found is I’ve just gotten good at recognizing what I can make with leftovers, right? It’s like, you know, we use the classic example of the rotisserie chicken, but I mean, like I cook chicken, like a whole chicken in my Instant Pot all the time, is taking that and going, yeah, we can eat, you know, chicken and potatoes and veggies tonight for dinner, but that gets to be turned into…

chicken enchilada casserole or tacos or chicken quesadillas or like I mentioned before, fried rice, because everything gets turned into fried rice around here. But those sorts of ideas are so helpful and it’s even led me to just pre -cooking certain things, like always having, you know, maybe like a quart size freezer bag of chopped up cooked chicken or ground ground meat. Having that…

Kathi (15:49)
Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (16:09)
Because don’t you think thawing the raw meat and cooking it is one of the longest, most planning intensive aspects of cooking?

Kathi (16:16)
Yes, and you have to hit it just right. That’s how it feels like. Yeah. Okay, so you know how you plan for leftovers and your go -to is fried rice? Mine has become quiche.

Tonya Kubo (16:20)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

okay.

Kathi (16:34)
So just always having a store -bought pie crust in the freezer. And you just mix up some eggs, some milk, some seasoning. And I had some leftover spinach and some cheese and some bacon. And Roger says it is the best quiche he’s ever had. And.

Tonya Kubo (16:39)
Okay.

Mm -hmm.

So can I tell you Lily’s favorite thing on the quiche front that I recently did? So I had ground beef and I’d read something like Pinterest or whatever, right? So it was like ground beef. And then I took eggs, a little touch of cream, because we keep heavy cream in the house, and Parmesan cheese, mixed that all up, threw that in an eight by eight, baked it, like 350 for like 25 minutes. And Lily was like, this is the yummiest breakfast casserole ever.

Kathi (16:56)
Yes, do tell.

Nice.

There you go. We’re making miracles here for our family, Tonya Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (17:27)
I’m telling you Parmesan cheese, it’s like, it cures all the things.

Kathi (17:31)
Okay, we’re gonna come back. We’re gonna come to number five, which I’m really, really excited about. And when we do, we’re just gonna take a quick break. And then we’re gonna talk about something I’ve just started to do recently, that has been a game changer for us. So we’ll, I’ll tell you my secret when we come back. Okay, we are back. And we’re talking about how do you reduce the amount of food that you’re buying?

So number five for me is, I’m just gonna call it a vegetable chop. And in the summer, the vegetable chop for me is cucumbers, tomatoes, and red onions. And you may be like, okay, well how does that save money? It saves money because I use it all up. I use it all up, and I use it in a million different ways. I use it.

Tonya Kubo (18:06)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Kathi (18:26)
just as a salad just on its own like that. I’ll put some Italian dressing on it or balsamic dressing on it. Add in some salt and pepper, maybe a little bit of feta cheese. Delightful. The other day I took some of that that had been marinating already in that balsamic vinaigrette and I threw it on top of a salad and put some croutons, I put it on top of romaine lettuce and it was delightful.

I also use it as kind of a bruschetta. You know, you can can that on top of toasted bread. There are a million things you can do with it and it is delicious every time. Now in the winter, I do the same thing, but I do it with celery, carrots, and onions. And you know, that can go into a casserole after it’s been sauteed. There are a million things that can be done with it and it’s delicious.

Okay, Tanya, take us to number six.

Tonya Kubo (19:27)
All right, so I think number six, I believe it’s very important to own your privilege in things. And so number six probably works best if you have older kids in the house or if it’s all adults versus having littles. But my idea for spending less on food is having your on your own nights, right? So we call them like Y -O -Y -O, like yo -yo nights.

Kathi (19:56)
You’re on your own, baby.

Tonya Kubo (19:57)
Right. Because the thing is, is you get to decide what you want to have for dinner. Toddlers don’t always make great decisions that help to save money, but older kids do. And so I think this works out really well for those nights when you have like enough of something for one person or maybe like as a side to something else.

Kathi (20:19)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (20:22)
And so everybody gets to go through the fridge, look at the leftovers and just decide what they’re having and then fill in the gaps with whatever they want. Abbey loves to make her own lunchable, otherwise known as charcuterie, right? So she’ll do crackers, cheese and salami and some fruit and she’s super happy. Lily likes to have that too, but Lily’s also somebody who doesn’t mind eating leftover spaghetti and fried rice in the same plate.

Kathi (20:33)
Right?

Right, right. And you know, when my kids were younger, we did these with, they were plastic trays that looked like TV trays, like TV dinner trays. And yeah, you know, that’s tonight’s dinner for us is you’re on your own because we had a fig, fig jam and brie burgers last night that were delicious. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (20:54)
Okay. Yeah.

Yum. That’s the yummiest leftover ever.

Kathi (21:12)
Right. And so we still have one of the half of one of those burgers left. I’ve got some I made some macaroni salad. But my mom and I have leftovers from a restaurant we went to. So we’re just going to be we’re going to be you know, not every meal has to have, you know, a main a veg and a side like sometimes you can just say, Hey, I need a night off or it’s too hot to cook. Let’s

Let’s make some wise decisions here and use up what we have. And this has become very important to us since we don’t have chickens currently because we’re not throwing anything to them. So yes. OK, number seven. And here is a, there’s a big old asterisk next to this, but I just want to talk about buying in bulk. Now,

Tonya Kubo (21:44)
Mm -hmm. Exactly.

Kathi (22:06)
I will tell you, you know, Roger is to baby food as Kathi is to Costco. Why was I continuing to buy huge containers of things when it was just me and Roger? You know, so I’ve had to dial back on this, but there are still some things that we go through pretty regularly.

Tonya Kubo (22:12)
Okay.

Kathi (22:30)
One convenient, I’m just gonna call it a convenience food that we love, is these little bowls of rice that are pre -packaged. You just peel them off and you put them in the microwave, I think for 90 seconds and you’re good to go. Now, I could make a whole big batch of rice. I could, you know what? I’m gonna buy a little convenience and I’m okay with that.

Tonya Kubo (22:39)
Mmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (22:56)
We actually, you know, we go through a lot of flour at our house. We go through, I’m trying to think of the things we go through that we buy in large portions. And it’s okay. It’s okay that we do that. But don’t be buying things at Costco just because it’s a deal and then not use them.

Tonya Kubo (23:20)
Yes, I think that’s the important part. We do, I think we just get into these habits where we’re used to buying a certain amount of an item.

at a certain frequency and when something changes the frequency or even when we go on vacation for a week or two if we don’t manage the quantity in which we buy things start to back up really really fast.

Kathi (23:30)
Yes.

Yes.

Well, and let’s just also say the people in our family, you know, if only they would do the same thing this week that they did last week. Right? You know, last week they couldn’t eat enough bananas. This week, bananas are gross, mom.

Tonya Kubo (23:50)
truth.

Yes, yes, and we ruined their lives by buying bananas.

Kathi (24:02)
my goodness, isn’t that the truth? Okay, we’re closing in. Tonya number eight.

Tonya Kubo (24:10)
number eight is using an app to track your food expiration dates. And I know that this is something that you taught me about because I would never do this. I eat and cook things unless they smell funny or look funny.

Kathi (24:24)
Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (24:25)
because that’s the kind of house I grew up in. But of course, you know, Brian, he’s the king of the Serve Safe certificates. He does not want to eat anything if it’s like more than a day past its code and more than three days in the fridge. So the USDA, Kathi, and I don’t have it handy, so I’m hoping we can put this in the show notes, but the USDA has an app that will help you track expiration dates. And I think that prevents people from throwing food away.

Kathi (24:50)
It’s.

Tonya Kubo (24:56)
that they don’t need to throw away.

Kathi (24:58)
Yes, it’s so true. I, I, who’s the itchy trigger finger in your household? Is it? No, it’s Brian. Yeah, it’s totally Brian In my house. It’s Roger. Now, like, he wants to if the milk expires on June 10, he wants to throw it away on June 9, just to be sure. And I’m like, I will murder you in your sleep. Like,

Tonya Kubo (25:05)
Yeah, it’s totally bright.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah. Well, and the thing with milk is temperature affects milk so much. I mean, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve opened up a jug of milk five days before the expiration date and it is sour and curdled and makes me want to move houses. And then there’s other times where it’s like four days past the date and it’s perfectly fine.

Kathi (25:40)
Right.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. You know, you can smell milk. It will let you know when it’s time to go. It will let you know. Yeah, it’s no, no, no, they they let you know right up front. Exactly. Okay, number nine, which is not a solution for everybody. But I do think it’s a solution for many of us is grow. If you’re not going to grow fruits or vegetables, which I totally understand, at

Tonya Kubo (25:52)
Milk and eggs will not trick you at all.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (26:13)
try growing your own herbs. You know, and it’s, they make it so convenient. It’s less expensive oftentimes to go buy that basil plant at Home Depot than it is to buy that little sprig of basil at the grocery store. And if you just put it in the pot and you pay attention to it maybe once a week, you’re gonna be good to go. And so I love…

growing my own herbs for basil, oregano, chives, green onions. Now we also do tomatoes and things like that, but it is so easy to grow those herbs. And if you forget about it, don’t go to the store and buy more herbs, go to Home Depot. It’s often gonna be cheaper for you to do that. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (27:06)
Mmm.

Kathi (27:10)
and Tanya, bring us home with number 10.

Tonya Kubo (27:12)
All right, so number 10 is one of those things where I feel like people have a stigma, Kathi. So I would like for us to destigmatize the use of public resources for saving food costs. So for instance, obviously, like there’s a food bank, right? So and people have a lot of opinions about food banks, but you would be surprised at how

Kathi (27:18)
Mm -hmm.

Let’s do it.

Yeah.

Right.

Lots of big feelings.

Tonya Kubo (27:40)
lenient the standards are for who qualifies to go to a food bank and who doesn’t. But beyond a food bank, we have this really cool thing in my town. And I know you’ve got some similar programs near where you’re at. But we have a community garden. They call it the People’s Garden. And there’s what they call the People’s Pantry and the People’s Fridge. So what these were. So you’ve got the community garden, you know, you donate so many hours per week to tending the garden and then you get a share.

Kathi (27:56)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (28:10)
of what is produced in that garden. But anybody who has extra stuff in their home, extra rice, extra dried beans, you can then donate it to the people’s pantry or the people’s fridge if it’s perishable, say eggs for instance. And then anybody can go there and just grab, there’s no sign in, sign out or anything, you just open the fridge. If there’s some stuff in there that you would use, you get to just take that home with you, the same with the pantry. But it’s this amazing collaborative sort of cooperative environment.

Kathi (28:22)
Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (28:38)
that really helps a lot of folks just make it to the end of the month or make it when there’s a little bit more month than money.

Kathi (28:45)
You know, and I want to talk about this from both sides because I have lived on both sides of this where we have donated a lot to food pantries. We do it through our church pretty regularly, especially they want canned tomatoes, you know, whether whatever kind of variation of canned tomatoes. I’m like, I can always give up some of my canned tomatoes. But I was on the other side of this where I was a single mom living below the poverty line.

Tonya Kubo (29:03)
Yeah.

Kathi (29:14)
Why did I not take advantage of this? I think it was embarrassment, it was shame. And today, if I needed to, I would 100 % take advantage of that. I feel it’s a lot like when I go to my mom’s house and they have extra figs Like, you know.

Tonya Kubo (29:33)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:34)
I’m going to take the figs because otherwise it’s going to go bad. Now we don’t currently participate in shopping at a food pantry, but it would be my first suggestion for anybody who’s struggling. And you are not, you are, the food pantry knows what they have. They know who they are able to help.

Tonya Kubo (29:55)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:59)
And you just have to ask, they all have websites, you can go and check it out. They have ways of doing it. I follow a couple of people on TikTok who go to food pantries. You can use AI to help you plan some meals then if you’re not sure what, because oftentimes you’ll get things in a food pantry that maybe you’ve never used before. And that’s okay, you know, this will expand what you’re able to do with your cooking and your repertoire. But I think it’s really important.

Tonya Kubo (30:19)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (30:28)
to take advantage of these kind of programs, especially if you are struggling financially right now. There are also gleaning programs where if you go and you help pick fruit or you help pick vegetables, you can take a portion of those home. Depending on your abilities, that’s a really great way. So I think a good place to find some of these things are in your local buy nothing group, your community groups.

Tonya Kubo (30:35)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (30:56)
There are Reddit pages for different communities and what’s available. Tonya, how do you find out about things in your community?

Tonya Kubo (31:06)
Well, you know, I’m lucky enough to be pretty plugged in, but like you said, but I mean, really is like almost every community has their own like Facebook group or, you know, neighborhood community, like my own neighborhood, you know, we have a group me, but those sorts of resources and when in doubt, just ask someone. And I do want to go back to just this idea of stigma around.

Kathi (31:09)
I was just gonna say you’re the most community plugged in person I know.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (31:35)
any sort of food support system, whether it’s a food bank or sometimes farmers markets have special programs. Like if you come like at the farmers market when it closes, you know, a lot of the farmers will let you have what they have on hand is I think one thing that stops a lot of people isn’t necessarily shame, but an assumption that somebody else needs it more than they do, which I love because our cluttery people have the most generous hearts out there. But I just want to say,

Kathi (31:46)
Yeah. Right.

Yes.

Mm -hmm, yes.

Tonya Kubo (32:03)
It is perfectly okay for you to prioritize your own needs and get the help that you need and trust that the organizations that provide these sorts of support services, like you said, Kathi, they know their capacity.

Kathi (32:08)
Mm -hmm.

Yes, and two more things I want to mention that maybe you just need that support for a couple of months. Maybe you’re going through a tough time and you know funds are lean, you’ve got medical bills, you’ve got it’s the beginning of school. Take advantage. Another thought is there are lots of community programs.

for children and senior citizens. California just did a $40 a month thing for kids who are on lunch programs. And then in our community, Monday through Friday, except for on holidays, there’s a senior lunch.

Tonya Kubo (32:43)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (33:00)
And Roger will proudly tell you that he is old enough to take advantage of that now. We have not availed ourselves of those services yet. But you know what? I think that there’s something really important there. Sometimes it’s not just about the food, it’s also about the community. And if you feel embarrassed to say, hey, is there a way I could help? Could I come and clean up? Could I come and serve food? If you’re able -bodied, those are things that you can do.

Tonya Kubo (33:05)
Nice.

Kathi (33:29)
Tonya, this is such a information packed thing. I’m sorry, we’ve had construction going on around our house and a barking dog. And I apologize if I seemed a little off my game, but the information is solid, I promise. So thanks for hanging with us. You’ve been listening to Clutter -Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter -free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#653 Say Goodbye to Insomnia: How Decluttering Can Reboot Your Rest

Hey there, friend! In this eye opening episode of Clutter-Free Academy, join Kathi Lipp as she speaks with Dr. Vicki Kasper to explore the powerful and surprising link between clutter and sleep. They discuss the science behind rest, how a clutter-free environment...

#652 The Clutter Free Lifestyle: 10 Habits That Actually Work

Hey there, friend! In this encouraging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo reveal the top 10 habits they've developed since embracing a clutter-free lifestyle. This candid conversation offers listeners practical insights into how living...

#651 10 Surprising Things I No Longer Do as a Clutter-Free Mom

Hey there, friend! In this compelling episode of Clutter-Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo explore the significant and often surprising habits they've relinquished to maintain a clutter-free lifestyle. Listeners will discover insights and practical advice...

#621 Unlocking the Secrets of Successful Gardening with AI

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jun 11, 2024 | Accidental Homesteader, Clutter Free, Clutter Free Podcast, DIY, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

621 – Unlocking the Secrets of Successful Gardening with AI

Have ever struggled to turn your dream garden into a reality? What if we told you that there’s a new secret weapon that can help you achieve gardening success like never before? That’s right, we’re talking about the incredible power of AI!

Join Kathi and her partner in life and gardening Roger Lipp on this episode as they dive into the world of AI-assisted gardening. They’ll share all the prompts and tips that transformed their gardening game, and you’ll walk away feeling empowered and inspired to create your own oasis of abundance. Listen in as Kathi and Roger guide you through using AI to:

Plan the spacing and layout of your garden
Determine what plants are best for your growing zone
Research companion plants for a healthy garden ecosystem

As promised, here’s the Garden Prompt that Kathi and Roger use to direct AI to plan their dream garden:

“I’m trying to create a planting/gardening activity calendar for our home in the 7b zone of 95684 for our 16×48 foot harden and our 8×8 greenhouse and various potted plants on our patios. Can you create a monthly calendar and make some suggestions about the best fruits and vegetables to grow – along with planting instructions?”

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The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home

Homesteading [hohm-sted-ing]
noun
1. an act or instance of establishing a homestead.
2. the act of loving where you live so much that you actively ignore the fact that your house is trying to kill you on a regular basis.

For Kathi Lipp and her husband, Roger, buying a house in one of the most remote parts of Northern California was never part of the plan; many of life’s biggest, most rewarding adventures rarely are.

Kathi shares the hard-won wisdom she’s gained on her homestead journey to help you accomplish more at home, gain fresh perspective, and give yourself grace in the process. Here’s a handful of the lessons Kathi shares:

Prepare before the need arises
Everything is always in process, including us
Your best household solution is time and patience
You don’t have to do everything the hard way
Be open to new and better ways of doing things
A lot of small changes make a huge difference.
Highly practical, humorous, and inspirational, The Accidental Homesteader will encourage you to live with more peace, joy, and contentment.

Order your copy of The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home here.

Links Mentioned:

Claude AI

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

What is something you struggle with when it comes to plants in general? What questions could you ask AI about those plant problems?

Share them in the comments!

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Meet Our Guest

Roger Lipp

Roger is a productivity and quality engineer for a Fortune 50 company.

Roger helps teams reach their full productivity potential by teaching them the practical and simple steps to reach their goals. Roger and his wife, author Kathi Lipp, teach communicators how to share their message through social media and email marketing.

He and Kathi coauthored Happy Habits for Every Couple with Harvest House Publishers.

Transcript

Kathi (00:00.198)
Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy where our goal is to help you live every day with less clutter and more life. And let’s talk about more life because if there was ever a metaphor for life, it would be the garden. And we’re gonna talk about.

Gardening an AI and you may think how do those two things to go together? Well Roger and I are gonna rock your world Roger. Welcome back to the podcast So we got into playing around with AI It at the beginning of 2023 you may have been doing things before that but you and I as a couple that’s when we started and I started doing little things and I got so excited and then I’m like

Roger (00:32.879)
Thank you, good to be here.

Roger (00:55.151)
We actually, we challenged ourselves to do something with AI every day when it first came out. And we didn’t even know what that meant. We just said, hey, we’re just going to use this every day. Yeah.

Kathi (00:55.238)
We were planning a… Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah.

We want to learn. We want to be smart. And boy howdy. And so what I would say, one of our most successful AI endeavors early on for sure was planning our greenhouse and our garden with AI. And so you measured the greenhouse, you measured the garden.

Roger (01:10.639)
I’m sorry.

Roger (01:26.447)
Yeah. Yes.

Kathi (01:33.542)
We came up with a list of things we wanted to grow in the garden and in the greenhouse and we fed all that information into AI and we doggy. So I want to talk, go ahead.

Roger (01:51.887)
It, yeah, yeah, I think it was, you know, the first time out we understood our growing zone and we knew how much square footage we had and we knew whether it was outside or in a greenhouse and we wanted to know spacing and just some basic things that we had some questions on.

Kathi (02:21.542)
Mm -hmm, yeah. And we were novice gardeners before we moved up here. You had never really gardened before. I had done some gardening, but not super successfully because squirrels.

Roger (02:38.031)
Well, yes, that’s our example, right? We had a beautiful tomato plant in our back patio in San Jose. It was gorgeous. And then nature took over. And yeah, the one beautiful tomato that we grew ended up with a squirrel on the side of the fence. Yeah.

Kathi (02:51.782)
Yeah.

and

Kathi (03:01.926)
and the squirrel did it right in front of me and took a bite and threw it away. And I am not a yeller. I yelled at that squirrel. I yelled at that squirrel. But we have since learned how to use AI to help us be better, smarter gardeners, right? And so let me just talk about some of the things that…

Roger (03:05.839)
Yeah.

Roger (03:21.519)
Absolutely.

Kathi (03:26.47)
We figured out and how we kind of put this all together now roger how big is our greenhouse? How big is our garden? and we now have orchard too. So like we’ve got it all going on

Roger (03:37.807)
Yeah, we do have it all going on. I’m sorry. I don’t have the exact numbers. Our greenhouse is, you know, about eight by eight. And the garden, the outside garden is 20 by 60. 20 feet by 60 feet. We got some space. Yeah.

Kathi (03:43.846)
Give us a rest.

Kathi (03:54.246)
Yeah, so we’ve got some space and we needed some plans. So here are, so let’s talk about, if you haven’t listened to our discussion of meal planning and AI, that’s gonna give you a lot of background to help you with this. But we’re gonna talk about some prompts. And can you just give us the one minute explanation of what a prompt is when it comes to AI? And why do we use cloth?

Roger (04:19.919)
Sure. So let me start with Claude. Claude, that’s C -L -A -U -D -E dot A -I. We’ve switched over to that. You may have heard of ChatGPT. Claude isn’t quite so well known out in the wild. You may have heard of ChatGPT. That’s a great one as well. That’s at chat .openai .com. And both of these are free. They both also have a paid account. We use a paid account.

Kathi (04:23.398)
Okay.

Roger (04:49.551)
because it gives us better access and access to all the latest stuff. A prompt for any of these tools, you can think of it as just a way of initiating a conversation with the AI. So you can think of it similarly as you would with doing a Google search. So if you type into Google, you know, whatever you’re looking for,

In a way, you’re prompting Google now to go out and do that internet search for you. Similarly with Claude, except in Claude’s case, you’re going to give it more of a sentence or a paragraph. You’re going to have a conversation with it. We like to think of Claude as an assistant. So however you might talk with an assistant, you could type that in as if you were interacting over text message with an assistant and

Claude can look up that stuff and pull it all together for you. And just like with an assistant, you can go back and say, well, OK, that wasn’t quite what I was looking for. I need something a little more like this. And Claude will update things and respond accordingly.

Kathi (05:51.174)
Yeah, it’s

Kathi (06:03.622)
Beautiful. I love it so much. And so we will share some of these prompts with you to help you as you’re thinking through your garden and all of that and get you to the next spot. But also, look at this as a blueprint for other things you want to do. Maybe it’s a woodworking project. Maybe it’s a craft project or something like that. AI can help you with those things as well. So.

One of the most important things to know is your climate and hardiness zones. So if you give it, Claude, your zip code, it can tell you what your USDA hardiness zone is. Now we live in a very weird place. So I gave it longitude and latitude because, yes, because our zone is not really our zone. It’s.

Roger (06:49.903)
I was wondering how you got around that. Yeah.

Roger (07:01.807)
Our zip code, yes, we have very dramatic microclimate change just from a couple of hundred feet, you know, because we’re on the side of a mountain. So as you go up the mountain, the zones change rapidly.

Kathi (07:02.15)
We live in microclimates.

Kathi (07:12.71)
Yeah.

Kathi (07:16.966)
Yeah, and another really important question is what are the average first and last frost dates in your location? So yeah, so super, super important. So that’s climate and hardiness. Two, space and layout. I have a good, yeah.

Roger (07:26.127)
Super important. Yeah.

Roger (07:34.832)
So we should probably give, okay, so what is that prompt? We’ll include them in the show notes, right? But you’re actually typing in what is the USDA hardiness zone for zip code XYZ, yep.

Kathi (07:41.382)
Right.

Kathi (07:48.582)
Your zip code, yeah. Yes, you’re asking as if you were asking an expert that question. I think that’s the best way to do it or an assistant, depending on what you’re doing. So number two, space and layout. This is where we started with our AI gardening adventure. I have a garden plot that is 20 by 60. Can you suggest a layout? Now, what we said was, and here are the plants we would…

what first we started off with what plants grow best in this in our area, can you suggest how many plants of each and so we were able to do seed starters and things like that. Here’s another prompt you okay yeah.

Roger (08:33.871)
Now that was, I mean, that’s no small feat right there because that involves some math and knowing the spacing of the plants. So that is super valuable because each plant has its own spacing requirements. Some things can be really close together and other things have to be very far apart. So being able to ask, okay, how many cucumber plants should I have if I also have tomatoes and zucchini and pumpkins? Because.

Kathi (08:37.702)
Right.

Kathi (08:43.302)
Mm -hmm. my goodness. Yes.

Kathi (08:53.67)
Yeah.

Kathi (08:58.214)
Yes.

Kathi (09:02.15)
Right. Yeah, we’re gonna try again this year, yes. Here’s another beautiful thing about space and layout. My garden gets full sun in the morning and partial shade in the afternoon. What plants would work well in this situation? What incredibly valuable information to have. Yeah, so go ahead.

Roger (09:02.831)
we’re gonna have pumpkins.

Roger (09:24.431)
And if you’re doing along those same lines, if you’re doing an outdoor in -ground garden like we’re trying, you also can give it soil conditions. We have very acidic soil. Now we try to combat that, but the soil out here is naturally acidic because of all the pine trees.

Kathi (09:41.254)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (09:53.334)
is it the pine trees? Yeah. Okay, okay, that makes a lot of sense. We’re going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we’re going to give you a few more we’re going to rapid fire some prompts for you. So we we will take a quick break, listen to our wonderful sponsors and come right back.

Roger (09:54.575)
Yeah, they add a lot of acid to the soil.

Kathi (10:23.654)
Okay, guys, we are back and we’re gonna give you a few more prompts that have been especially helpful for us in this whole gardening situation. Okay, so plant selection, I love this. I wanna grow tomato, basil, and lettuce. What are the growing requirements? So it’s gonna tell you, you know, what kind of soil does it need? Is it a container plant? Is it the…

it’s going to give you everything you need. Or it may say it’s not going to work in your space. So you know, buy your lettuce at the store. These are all good. This is all good information to have. What are some easy to grow vegetables for beginner gardeners? So it’s going to give you a list and you say, okay, would these work in my conditions? And you know, this is great. If especially if you don’t have gardeners around you, you know,

It’s always best to get that information from somebody who’s been gardening for 40 years. But if you don’t have that person in your life, and we kind of don’t up here, this has been a great substitution. Wouldn’t you say, Raj? Yeah.

Roger (11:31.639)
yeah. Yeah, and getting back to the chat concept, you know, if you started your conversation with Claude about trying to figure out your growing zone, and then you went in, in that same conversation, you said, great, here’s the size of my garden. And now in that same conversation, you ask, what are some good starter plants? It…

Kathi (11:36.294)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Roger (11:56.943)
will remember that entire conversation and give you starter plants for your zone that would work well in that garden space. So this is one of the beautiful things about this kind of conversation. It really is like talking with an assistant or an expert. And it’s just sort of keeping track of everything that you’ve said in that conversation and pulling it all together for you.

Kathi (12:21.766)
Brilliant, brilliant. Okay, couple of other interesting categories, companion planting. What are some good companion plants for tomatoes? So that is, you know, you wanna grow tomatoes, but you wanna have other things near it that are going to, that are good to grow together. Plants like friends.

Roger (12:42.799)
A lot of it is, yeah, yeah, and a lot of it has to do with pest control as well. So, you know, this plant repels the pest that would be a problem for this other plant, therefore they should grow kind of close together. So a lot of subtleties in planting a garden that we have no idea about as we’re starting, or even intermediate.

Kathi (12:48.134)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (13:05.222)
Yeah. Well, and you know, you could even say, hey, when planning the layout of my garden, keep in mind companion planting, my zone, these are the things I’d like to grow. Like put all those conditions in and then this genius brain is going to take all that information and give you to optimize all your conditions and what you want to accomplish.

Succession planting. How can I plan for successes, hard harvests of lettuce throughout the season? Like it may say in spring, you’re going to start with this kind and then you know, fall, you’re going to transition to this. What are some vegetables with different maturity dates that I can plan for a longer harvest? And we do this as well. We know which ones we’re going to plant in February, you know, start in February in the house. Go ahead, Roger.

Roger (14:00.879)
Yeah, I think this year we’re we’re paying attention. This is kind of the growing edge for us this year is to get this down because otherwise your garden is kind of one and done and when you know that that tomato plant is is done, it’s it’s kind of done. But if you can think about things from a longer. Period of time, well OK, what does work in the fall and how can I get that little plant started?

at the right time. Maybe it’s in a in the greenhouse or we even turned our upstairs, my office upstairs, one of our spare bedrooms into a growing nursery for the for the plants. We had light stretched across between two beds that we have in the room and it was pretty interesting. But you know that that’s just a way of trying to figure out how to have.

Kathi (14:46.278)
Room. Yeah.

Roger (15:00.911)
plants for longer period of time, how to have more vegetables for a longer period of time. So AI can definitely help lay that out and create a plan for you.

Kathi (15:06.438)
Yeah.

Kathi (15:13.734)
I love it. Roger, as we finish up here, and we’ve got more prompts, we’re going to put those all in the show notes, so you’re definitely going to want to check those out. Why would you encourage somebody to try gardening with AI?

Roger (15:31.151)
So we’ve used some of the specific tools for this as well that are purpose built for gardening. And you can draw your garden space and gardening apps. Yeah. And they’re good. They’re good. So there may be an instance where that is the preferred thing that you would want to do. But here,

Kathi (15:43.046)
Gardening apps those kind of thing. Yeah

Roger (15:56.495)
With AI, it’s a general purpose tool. We’re recording sessions about cooking with AI. We’ll have others going on as well. It’s a general purpose tool that can help you in so many different areas of your life as an assistant, as an expert, as just something to bounce ideas off of, to enhance your own creativity. It helps in so many ways. And it’s available.

Kathi (16:05.19)
Yeah.

Roger (16:25.775)
for free if you want, or as we’ve done, you can pay 20 bucks a month. It’s such an amazing tool to help in so many different areas. So I think that’s why I would encourage folks to give this a try. If gardening is something that you’re interested in and you’ve had trouble getting started, or you have specific problems that you’re trying to overcome in your garden, maybe you’re an intermediate or even an advanced gardener, AI has a place there as well. So I think it can help.

Kathi (16:56.07)
Yeah, guys, I would really encourage you, you know, to use this in every aspect of your life, because when you get better with AI cooking, you’re going to get better with AI gardening and AI, you know, chores, you know, meal planning, all the there’s so many aspects of this can help with. Roger, thanks for being here.

Roger (16:57.135)
Because it’s helped us.

Roger (17:16.911)
my pleasure.

Kathi (17:18.342)
Friends, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to Clutterfree Academy. I’m Cathy Lip. Now, go create the Clutterfree life you’ve always wanted to live.

#653 Say Goodbye to Insomnia: How Decluttering Can Reboot Your Rest

Hey there, friend! In this eye opening episode of Clutter-Free Academy, join Kathi Lipp as she speaks with Dr. Vicki Kasper to explore the powerful and surprising link between clutter and sleep. They discuss the science behind rest, how a clutter-free environment...

#652 The Clutter Free Lifestyle: 10 Habits That Actually Work

Hey there, friend! In this encouraging episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo reveal the top 10 habits they've developed since embracing a clutter-free lifestyle. This candid conversation offers listeners practical insights into how living...

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