Kathi Lipp (00:10) 

Hey friends, welcome to clutter free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life and We are back with our series. We’re just taking it one space at a time Sometimes we just need a deep dive and that’s what we’re here to do how to declutter certain areas of your home And I am here with my fellow clutter girl 

? We have gone through our houses together and we live to tell the tale. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. 

Tonya Kubo (00:43) 

Hey Kathi 

Kathi Lipp (00:44) 

Okay, so I need to know how does your clothes closet make you feel? Do you approach it with love and joy? Is it overwhelming? Like what’s the deal for you? 

Tonya Kubo (00:57) 

I am pretty ambivalent about my clothes closet, but I don’t have a walk-in closet. ? so, you know, I just have like a stereotypical 1950s sort of row of clothes across and Brian gets about two thirds of it and I have a third of it. 

Kathi Lipp (01:14) 

That is not the normal breakdown for a couple. 

Tonya Kubo (01:18) 

No, but it’s a normal breakdown for us. When we lived in a bigger house, he had two closets and I had one closet, but my closet wasn’t full. 

Kathi Lipp (01:21) 

Okay. 

? Brian Kubo, 

you live an extravagant life. I love it so much. Yeah, I also do not have a walk-in closet. This house was built more as a summer retreat than it was like. People are very impressed we live here year-round. When we moved here, it wasn’t supposed to be a year-round place. And then we decided to move here year-round and the people who ? 

Tonya Kubo (01:39) 

Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (01:54) 

Sold us the house. There’s like, we’re very impressed. You’re living there year round and our neighbors were like we did not think you were going to make it the first two years. So i’m like, yeah, we didn’t either because the house kept trying to kill us but ? It was yes. Yes, but ? we have come to a peaceful living arrangement with the house We we’ve stopped trying to burn it down and it’s stopped trying to kill us. So it’s a beautiful thing 

Tonya Kubo (02:02) 

hahahaha 

I was going to say that was a rough two years. I was there for it. 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (02:21) 

but the closets have not gotten any bigger. And I wanna talk about how do we get to be more in love with our closet? And today I wanna talk about making that a reality. So we’re gonna talk about how do you declutter, clean and organize your closet? Because that’s going to get us a fur piece to really loving it. So number one, I want us to think about 

Tonya Kubo (02:30) 

Hmm. 

Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (02:50) 

How do we set a vision for our closet which sounds very woo-woo, but do you want a decluttered closet? Do you want because you want less? Decision fatigue more space feeling good about your wardrobe ? I do but I also want I also don’t want to go there and say I have nothing to wear because I don’t like the clothes in the closet So I I don’t want to over declutter, but I also don’t want it under declutter and so ? 

I thought this was really interesting. I heard about somebody who talked about a visualization exercise. Imagine your ideal closet and how it makes you feel. So for me right now, we talked about this on a previous episode. One, I love, and I do mean love, some matching hangers Like that gets me 30 % of the way to feeling good about my closet. 

Tonya Kubo (03:42) 

you 

Kathi Lipp (03:46) 

So I’ve got you’ve got matching hangers tonya. I’ve got matching hangers ? what I wish my closet had right now that it doesn’t is a little bit more space before between the clothes ? right now it’s a little too packed for my I haven’t done a deep declutter on that In a while, so that’s something I want to do. The other thing is ? And my closet doesn’t cause me stress right now 

Tonya Kubo (03:58) 

Hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (04:13) 

but one improvement that I’d like to make in the next month or so is hanging all the pants together, hanging all the jeans together so I can really see what I have. Is there anything that you’ve done in your closet that makes you feel better about it? 

Tonya Kubo (04:21) 

Mm-hmm. 

Yeah, so it’s funny, I don’t do this consistently, but I have, because I typically organize my closet, you I have a coat and then anything that’s long and then business attire. And then I kind of go to more casual toward the center of the closet. But ? one time I color coded everything like I had everything done by color. And I have to tell you, it was so much easier to find 

my favorite top, my favorite this, my favorite that, when I had it arranged that way. Now I will tell you week to week, I did not have the energy to be that thoughtful about how I put things away. But when I do, it’s special, Kathi It really is. Yeah. 

Kathi Lipp (04:59) 

you 

It feels good, right? 

Yeah, you know, when I know I’m having a busy week and I really want to, you know, launch well, I’ll put together outfits for that week. And that’s a beautiful thing. I’m not going to lie that really, really, because you already know that shirt hits you at the right spot for those pants, etc, etc. It makes me it makes me very, happy. So 

Tonya Kubo (05:22) 

Mmm. 

Kathi Lipp (05:37) 

Yeah, that’s set what step one is like, how do I set my vision for this closet? ? Again, sounds a little woo woo, but it actually makes it makes a big difference. And step two, the purge. ? If you are able to maintain that one in one out rule, that’s really, really helpful. But also, ? maybe setting aside like 45 minutes and trying on questionable pieces. Now, Tonya, I’m going to admit. 

I’ve had something in my closet for three years now that I have never worn. ? And it’s something I spent a lot of money on and I tried it on in the store. ? It’s from the Sundance store, which they don’t have any near me. I bought this in Colorado. I cannot return it. And every time I go to try it on, feels a little, it’s a dress. It feels a little too short. And 

Tonya Kubo (06:10) 

Mmm. 

Mm-hmm. 

Mmm. 

Kathi Lipp (06:36) 

I but I can’t get rid of it and I think we all have something like that in our closet if you don’t you are a stronger human being than I am but There’s been a lot of other things that I’ve bought and it’s like I’ve worn it a couple times I’m like, you know what this just doesn’t feel like me So if you take 45 minutes and just try on some questionable pieces and say, okay Will I ever wear this is this something that I should keep in my closet? 

And if it doesn’t make you feel great, get it out of there. You probably already have enough that makes you feel good. And when I get rid of enough questionable pieces, I’m like, okay, if I get rid of 10 things, I’m gonna allow myself to buy one thing that’s gonna replace that. Because I have, and so it is time for me to do that. What is your purge system? 

Tonya Kubo (07:23) 

Mm-hmm. 

Yeah, so for me, ? I don’t do a lot of shopping. So I’m not one of those reasonable people who buys like a couple of pieces every season. So typically what I’ll do is as I’m putting away my clothes, there’s this one shirt or something that gets in my way. And I realize, it’s because I haven’t worn it in a long time and now I’m starting to get really grumpy about having to move it to put my clothes in. And so that always tells me, okay, it’s time to go through the closet. 

And so I’ll get rid of everything. And then what I do is I inventory what I need to replace because I dislike shopping so much that I do not want to go and buy four shirts if I actually only need two, because there’s a lot more trying on if I have to go home with four versus two. and then I also will take a look through I’ll look at Brian’s clothes because Brian wears a lot of printed t-shirts. 

Kathi Lipp (08:17) 

Right. 

Tonya Kubo (08:26) 

And if there shirts that like the designs are coming off, I know he won’t get rid of those shirts, but I’ll make a note like for gifts and stuff for him for later. 

Kathi Lipp (08:35) 

Mmm. that’s nice. I love that you’re you’re planning on a replacement. I love that so much ? Another strategy for maintaining how much is in your closet ? We had on the abundant home conference my friend Lauren who has a tik-tok channel about how every season she pulls out her clothes turns the the hangers back we’ve all heard this trick and she only flips them when she wears them and ? 

And then at the end of the season, what she does is she works at a college and so she donates a lot of those clothes to girls she works with at the college. And so she knows they’re going to somebody who will give them a good home. She does the same thing with her shoes. She’s trying on everything every year. And I love that for her. ? And you guys have all heard our quiz, do I love it, do I use it, would I buy it again? So I’m going to… ? 

Tonya Kubo (09:13) 

you 

Kathi Lipp (09:34) 

give you a couple of different questions you could ask about clothes. Do you love it? If you love it, you get to keep it as long as you also wear it. This dress I got at Sundance, I love it, but I don’t wear it because I don’t necessarily love it on me. And then the third question, know, when I was coming up with this, I’m like, does it fit and does it flatter? And I’ve decided I don’t like the word flatter. 

Because I think that that for many of us doesn’t make me look thinner and I care a lot less about whether something makes me look five pounds less Here’s what I care more about. Does it fit and does it feel like me? Does it feel like what I would want the world to see me in and so if flatter is a very important thing to you then go ahead and keep it but 

Tonya Kubo (10:04) 

Hmm. 

Hmm. 

Mmm. 

Kathi Lipp (10:34) 

I would love for us to think about does it fit and does it feel like me? ? Do you have any sentimental clothes that you hold on to even though you don’t wear them? 

Tonya Kubo (10:47) 

I mean, I still have my engagement dress. I have that. You know, I have my wedding dress. But beyond that, I have a t-shirt. It’s so old right now. But Brian brought it back from Disneyland. had a chaperoned grad night. And it so he brought that back for me the day that we found out we were expecting Lily. So I keep that and it’s orange. It’s orange and it says bad girls rule. 

Kathi Lipp (10:50) 

Aww. 

Aww. 

Tonya Kubo (11:17) 

and it has the evil queen on it and all sorts of sequins and stuff and I love it. In fact, think like Lily wears it every now and then now, which is funny because she never wears orange, but yeah, it’s a fun shirt and I still have it, but it’s very memorable. 

Kathi Lipp (11:30) 

? I love that so much. Yeah, I have a couple of things, like things that people have given me that are sentimental that I don’t necessarily wear, but I can’t really get rid of them. You know, it’s just, ? you know, so I think it’s okay to have a couple of things, a couple of things that you’re like, I’m not ready to get rid of that. And it’s like, that’s okay. You know what? If you’re still functioning, if you still have enough clothes to wear, it’s okay. 

? Okay, so now if you’ve decided I’m getting rid of this I I want to give you a couple of different piles So there’s the keep pile obviously that can all go back in donate. So if it’s still in good condition ? You can donate that trash and then I think there’s also a reasonable pile That is I’m going to try it on again. Maybe closer to fall or maybe you 

You don’t have to make your decisions in one fell swoop. You can say, you know what, I’m not ready to make this decision. Now, I want you to make hard decisions as much as you can, but if you can’t, that’s okay. We can do this in steps because we are compassionate with ourselves and with others. Okay, we’re gonna take a quick break and when we come back, I wanna talk about cleaning out and organizing your closet. So we’re gonna come right back. 

Okay, friends, so if you’ve pulled a lot of your clothes out, now you don’t have to pull everything out at once. I don’t need you to do this. This is not Marie Kondo. We don’t need to pile everything in the middle of our bed and make it work. And even Marie Kondo has said recently, that’s too much. It’s too much. Don’t do that. So. 

Tonya Kubo (13:13) 

It’s 

amazing what having children will do to change your perspective on keeping your house tidy. 

Kathi Lipp (13:19) 

It really is. can I just say, I love that she said that. Because when I read her book, I was like, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, that’s not going to work for me. And now she’s saying, you know what? I’ve had a little bit more life experience. That doesn’t work for me either. So maybe if you’re 20s, Marie Kondo can totally work for you. Otherwise, maybe be gentle with yourself. So ? as much as you can, as you’re pulling things out, 

Tonya Kubo (13:24) 

Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (13:45) 

This is the time to grab a vacuum. Grab that feather duster. You know, it’s the fuzzy duster. Let’s call it that. Get in there and clean. ? I just recently redid Roger’s closet. ? you know, I don’t consider that an especially dirty place. We do not put his clothes away dirty in there. But pulling all that out felt really good to be able to swiffer in there, wet swiffer, and just get it looking really, really good. ? Also, ? 

Well, we’ll talk about organization in a second, but ? get in there and just deep clean, get a handy vac, do all that. Now I also want you to go in there and let’s talk about organization. ? You can categorize by type and function. So maybe there’s work clothes, casual clothes. If you have anything formal, Roger has a couple of shirts. I mean, ? suits. I have a couple of more dressy dresses. ? maybe there’s some seasonal. We are. 

Where we live in the mountains, it’s very seasonal. I have probably a quarter of my wardrobe crosses over all year round. Things like sweat bottoms, things like that. But all of my winter clothes are up in the attic right now and I’ve just got summer clothes out. Now that’s probably not the same for you, right Tonya? 

Tonya Kubo (15:08) 

No, mean, our house is so much smaller, but we do have like our winter clothes. I put that underneath my bed. I have organizers and because, you know, again, small closets, those bulky winter clothes take up so much space. 

Kathi Lipp (15:17) 

Okay. that’s right. 

They really do. You probably have a lot more clothes that you can wear year round. ? Yeah. So, you know, also think about, and I’m going to put up a picture of what I’ve done with Roger’s closet. Now my closet has a lot of, I’m not going to say nonsense, but things you might not expect in a closet. Like we keep all of our medications up on the top shelf of my closet. 

We keep a lot of my hair products, those kind of things. So that’s not what the typical closet is going to be for, but I’ll show you Roger’s because we’ve been able to really ? put some great systems in there that has really helped. ? So I wanna talk about some of the storage solutions we’ve done. So ? again, I use slim velvet hangers to maximize space. Roger hates those. He hates the texture of them. 

So he has just white plastic hanger. ? You might wanna consider clear storage bins. ? That’s what I use for all that, ? like the back stock of our bathroom stuff that we use in there. ? I also, something I’ve just discovered recently that has been super helpful is shelf dividers. So ? Roger has like four categories of clothes that he has on the top. 

portion of the shelf. Now I used to just throw them up there. Like there was no rhyme or reason, but he has sweats. He has long sleeve shirts. He has short sleeve shirts and jeans. And we got some shelf dividers and these things are a miracle. I love them so much. They just slide onto the shelf and they have like a wire separator and it has made his closet 40 % more organized. I love it. 

Tonya Kubo (17:02) 

Want to pick? 

Mmm. 

Kathi Lipp (17:19) 

? Yeah, I love these things. ? Also, you might want to consider hanging organizers for shoes or accessories, especially like my mom has the largest closet I have ever personally been in. It is huge. Like when they showed the house, they had a gym inside the closet. It’s huge. It’s huge. So, ? you know, my mom has shoe rack organized, hanging shoe rack organizer. 

Tonya Kubo (17:20) 

Nice. 

my gosh. 

Kathi Lipp (17:49) 

because she has so much hanging closet space. That is not my personal dilemma. ? And then if you have drawers in your closet, well, we live an entirely different life. We just do. But ? if you do, we’ll link to the episode about ? the sock and underwear drawer organizers that might be able to help you. ? 

You know, there are some people like they repaint their closets. That’s not really my jam. I just want my clothes to be at I wanted to feel like I’m going into a really well run consignment store. Does that sound weird? 

Tonya Kubo (18:32) 

No, not at all. I mean, you want it to feel cozy and exciting and you want everything to make sense. 

Kathi Lipp (18:41) 

Yes, yes. I think and something that has been really important for me is at the end of the day, I am very careful like the shirt I’m wearing right now. I’m wearing this for work. I’m not wearing this to make dinner. I’m not wearing this to go out into the garden. So this has not been worn. So I have not spilled anything on it yet. I mean, the day is still young, but I’m going to hang this up again. 

So that has been a real saver for me. Okay, we’re about to get controversial again, Tonya. So here we are, right? Okay, so we live far from everything. So pretty much after work is done, I’m gonna take my work clothes off and I’m gonna get into my night clothes. I’m gonna get into some sweat bottoms. I’m gonna put on a sports bra, which I sleep in, which freaks people out apparently. I don’t care, I live my life. Nothing bad has ever. 

Tonya Kubo (19:18) 

Mm-hmm. 

Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (19:38) 

has ever happened because I’ve been in a sports bra while I’ve been asleep. In fact, I would like to suggest if I had to leave here in the middle of the night, which I’ve had to do to take Roger to the ER, I was very glad I slept in a sports bra. That’s a good thing for me. I’ve never had to, I just hang my clothes up again. And every once in a while, I’ll wash them again. 

Tonya Kubo (20:03) 

Mm-hmm. 

Kathi Lipp (20:05) 

putting those away, having room in my closet, not having to fight with that is huge for me and I really, really love it. And then one of the things I’m going to commit to from this podcast out, I have shoe storage in my closet. I’ve got some shelves in there. This is my lazy habit. I just throw my shoes in there. I don’t put them back on the shelves. 

Tonya Kubo (20:31) 

you 

Kathi Lipp (20:32) 

So about once a week, I’d love to say I’m gonna be the person who just, that’s never gonna happen. I am 58 years old this week. It’s never gonna happen for me to just put those right back in there. So I’m going to once a week commit to putting all those things back in there. Any closet confessionals you wanna give us, anything you wanna change. 

Tonya Kubo (20:54) 

Yeah, I would, I feel like I say this every time we talk about closets on here. It’s like, I want to make better space of the floor of the closet. Cause I have a floor and then there’s ? drawers below it. And so I can’t put anything too heavy because then the drawers will collapse. But I always feel like it’s such a waste of space. This open space down here. 

Kathi Lipp (21:02) 

Yeah. 

Mm-hmm. 

Right? Yeah. 

Okay, okay, we’re both committing to making our closets more functional. I love it ? guys it will have a little download here so that you can follow along with some of these suggestions because We want your closet. Like I said, I think that that is my new vision is to have the best curated consignment shop That of all things that I would want to buy that makes me super happy.