Kathi Lipp (00:09) 

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter-Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps every day to live with less clutter and more life. And I am here with my favorite Clutter co-conspirator. It is Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya. okay. It’s time for us to come out of the closet on this one. Do you have a coat closet? Okay, see, easy. Your solution is here. 

  

Tonya Kubo (00:23) 

Hey, Kathi. 

  

No. 

  

My whole house 

  

has two closets. That’s it. 

  

Kathi Lipp (00:40) 

I Tonya I don’t even know I can’t oh my goodness you know what you 

  

Tonya Kubo (00:45) 

It’s okay. It’s okay. 

  

I wish I had a coat closet. Not gonna lie. 

  

Kathi Lipp (00:51) 

You’ve made your house work without a coat closet. Okay, so let’s talk about this in some generalities. We have a coat closet. I don’t know if you remember what that coat closet looks like, but it did not come with the house. It’s a built-in. So it’s very different kind of situation that doesn’t work for everybody, but it’s really helped us. 

  

Tonya Kubo (00:59) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mmm. Yes! 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (01:20) 

Can I just say our coat closet can become a catchall? And yeah, it’s not great. And so I want to talk coat closets today. I think a lot of listeners will identify this, that I have spent many years avoiding opening my coat closet, afraid that random stuff is going to fall out. But today we are going to share a game plan to fix that. 

  

Tonya Kubo (01:49) 

Oooooh! I like a good game plan even if it doesn’t apply to my specific situation. 

  

Kathi Lipp (01:50) 

Yes. 

  

It’s a big promise, I’m not gonna lie. You know what, and if you don’t have a coat closet like Tonya, think of this maybe as what is your launch pad? What is the launch pad for getting out of the house? Because we all have to have that. So this is not going to directly impact you, but this may give you some ideas. 

  

Tonya Kubo (02:05) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yeah, so you mentioned that your coat closet got a little scary. So why don’t you start us off with like, were the biggest challenges that you were facing before you got on top of it? 

  

Kathi Lipp (02:29) 

Okay, so can we, is there a word that’s multi-seasonality? okay, I just made, yeah, I get to make up words. I love that so much. So what the problem was is there were too many things living in that closet at the same time. You know, we had not only, granted, where we live, we need to keep some different things in our coat closet. 

  

Tonya Kubo (02:36) 

You just made it up, Kathi. That’s okay. You are an author. You are allowed to make up words as much as you want. 

  

Hmm. Okay. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (02:59) 

Like a lot of our listeners do live in snow country, so they may need to keep a snow scraper in that coat closet. Most of our listeners don’t need to keep bear spray in there. But you know. 

  

Tonya Kubo (03:08) 

I was just gonna 

  

say, but in your coat closet you have to keep bear spray and pain reliever. 

  

Kathi Lipp (03:13) 

We do. 

  

And pain reliever, have some different drawers that we’ll talk about in a different episode. But the major coat area, you know, we were keeping our spring coats in there and, you know, that little summer jacket and the big heavy winter coat. There was just, there was a lot going on and it was just a great place to stash stuff. And yeah, it got a little… 

  

Tonya Kubo (03:19) 

Yeah. 

  

Kathi Lipp (03:41) 

It was out of control, we couldn’t find things. Things were not there when they needed to be and their coats sometimes got jammed in because we ran out of hangers. Random items on the base of it. Just, I mean, no real system, no real system. 

  

Tonya Kubo (04:00) 

Yeah, well, it sounds like it had quite the impact on just the day to day life, right? Like just it takes more time to do things when you have to like devote time to digging through. 

  

Kathi Lipp (04:05) 

Yeah. 

  

Why do we own seven hats if we can’t find one when we need to leave the house? Like these are, yeah. Or why do we need six dog leashes if there’s never anywhere they’re supposed to be? And it wasn’t that it made me late for stuff, you know, because anywhere I’m going, it’s gonna take an hour and a half. So I left plenty of times. But we would forget stuff all the time because, you know, what was hidden was forgotten. 

  

Tonya Kubo (04:15) 

Or the right one. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Right. So can you walk us through sort of what was the first move there? 

  

Kathi Lipp (04:47) 

Okay, so I’m not normally a big fan of this, especially for large areas, but for this coat closet, I will recommend pulling at least categories out at all at once. So things like pulling out all the coats, or maybe pulling out all the scarves, or hats, or things like that. 

  

Tonya Kubo (04:56) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. Okay. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (05:15) 

And then really deciding what did we actually need? Do I actually wear this coat? If not, it got donated. Donating good things, things in good condition. We didn’t have a lot of stuff that was in bad condition, but if it was rarely worn, one question was, okay, maybe I only wear this once a year. I have a fancy coat, okay? I have a. 

  

Tonya Kubo (05:21) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (05:43) 

It’s not fancy, but it’s a nice coat. got it for a business trip in Chicago. I rarely wear it. Does that need to be in the front hall closet? I consider that prime real estate. So I just decided to keep that in my bedroom closet and I could pull it out when I needed it. So it’s really curating what we needed in each category. Why do I have seven beanies? 

  

Tonya Kubo (05:50) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Okay. 

  

Hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (06:13) 

I don’t know, because they were, I don’t know. Yeah, maybe somebody gave me one. Let’s be honest, they were on sale at Costco. Let’s just be honest. So there were things like that, but I don’t need all of those. So the first thing really was removing those extra coats. You asked me what the first step was, it was removing extra coats and things that just didn’t need to be there. 

  

Tonya Kubo (06:14) 

I was gonna say, why did you have seven meetings? mean, no judgment, just curious. 

  

Right. 

  

Okay and then what came after that do you think? 

  

Kathi Lipp (06:45) 

So that’s when we, I don’t know about you, Tonya, but there was just so much nonsense, so much nonsense. Like why were tools in there? Explain to, why? I don’t know. I think, just for now, it’s so true, it’s so true. And then why was there mail in there? Like that’s not where the mail goes. 

  

Tonya Kubo (06:58) 

Well, cause you put it there just for now until you decide where you really want it, right? 

  

no, no, I understand. I will explain why there was mail there. Because you came inside the house and you had the mail in your hand and you had your coat on. And so you put the mail down so that you can take off your coat. But while you’re taking off your coat, another idea entered your brain. And so you pivoted around and you went to go take action on that other idea, completely forgetting. 

  

Kathi Lipp (07:13) 

Okay, please tell me. 

  

Yes, yes, yeah. 

  

Yes. 

  

Go. 

  

Tonya Kubo (07:36) 

that your mail is inside the coat closet. The same thing is also what happens to your remote control. Mine’s usually in the fridge. 

  

Kathi Lipp (07:42) 

my goodness. my goodness. Okay, I’ve never done that. That’s impressive. I have to say. Ours gets lost in the bed sheets all the time. And then in the middle of the night, we’re like, why? Why did friends just pop on? Because Moose was walking across the bed. Yes. Okay, we each house has its own problems, right? Yeah. So to really decide, like each space in your house has to have its own purpose. And so I need 

  

Tonya Kubo (07:47) 

all the time. 

  

You 

  

No. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (08:10) 

It’s okay for me to put the mail on the front table as long as I’m putting the mail the same place each time and the coat closet is probably not it. 

  

Tonya Kubo (08:15) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yeah, the coat closet’s not it because a coat closet has a door. You will never see the mail again. That’s just what happens. Okay, so, you know, I hesitate to ask this question because I think some people are gonna roll their eyes and go, gee whiz, Tonya, it’s a coat closet. You can’t have emotional connections to your coats. But I happen to know that our listeners and our community members who are over in Clutterfree Academy and Clutterfree for Life struggle with emotional connections. 

  

Kathi Lipp (08:25) 

Yes, exactly. Yes. 

  

Tonya Kubo (08:51) 

to items that other people don’t understand. So I’m curious, was there any of that as you were going through your coat closet, anything where you felt emotionally connected to having it there or where you really felt strongly about needing it to be there just in case something were to happen? 

  

Kathi Lipp (09:08) 

Okay, so not this version of the coat closet, but I will talk about the version we had at our house in San Jose and That was the army green jacket that I had in Japan and You know what? Okay, so Some of the best memories I had in my life before I married Roger Happened in that army green jacket now. I will also say 

  

Tonya Kubo (09:15) 

Hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (09:37) 

I did not wear that same size army green jacket for a very long, pretty much my whole first marriage and much of my second marriage, but I couldn’t get rid of it. And so what finally made me get rid of it, this is so embarrassing. I had some dog treats in it apparently, and we had a little bit of an infestation at our house. And yeah. 

  

Tonya Kubo (09:46) 

Yeah. 

  

Hmm. 

  

yeah, that happens. 

  

Kathi Lipp (10:05) 

And so we had to get rid of the jacket. yeah, it hung in my house without being used for years and years and years. And what I wish I would have done was give it to somebody. Because there’s some kid, some emo kid would have loved that jacket. I could have given it to Lily at some point, right? Yes, yes. 

  

Tonya Kubo (10:16) 

Yeah. 

  

Yes, yes! 

  

You totally could have given it to Lilly. You totally could have. 

  

Because she was definitely in an army green phase before she was in her black on black phase, which is where we’re at right now. 

  

Kathi Lipp (10:33) 

Yes, and 

  

we all have some of those things that it’s like, okay, I’ll get back into it. Or you know what, maybe somebody will come visit me at the house and they need an army green jacket. know, like, these are all things. And when you have chaos like that, you don’t use the stuff that you have. It’s really, we stash things in there because we’re thinking we’ll deal with it later. Like you said earlier, 

  

Tonya Kubo (10:46) 

Right. 

  

Kathi Lipp (11:01) 

But today, let’s all handle that. Let’s handle our business, Tonya. Let’s, yeah, yes. 

  

Tonya Kubo (11:05) 

Yeah, let’s handle the business for the here and now as 

  

it comes. So, okay, we’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, you are gonna talk to us about matching hangers. I’m very curious about hearing more of this. Hanging bins and more. All right, so we’ll see you after the break. 

  

Kathi Lipp (11:18) 

Yes, okay. Yes, yes. 

  

Tonya Kubo (11:26) 

All right, well, welcome back. So Kathi, I can’t remember if I heard this on a Facebook live you did or if it was something you did in our membership community, but I have heard you in the past say that matching hangers can transform the look of any space that has hangers instantly. I need you to tell me more about 

  

Kathi Lipp (11:34) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Okay, so you said in our last podcast episode that you think every space in our house could potentially be one that brings us joy when we go there. And can I tell you one of the cheat codes to joy is matching hangers. And here’s what I love about that. And it doesn’t have to be expensive hangers. I will tell you for my personal closet upstairs, I have those thin black. 

  

Tonya Kubo (11:57) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

I believe that. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (12:16) 

Velvet hangers the joy hangers Roger hates those with a fiery passion Okay, is it because they are Superman and they feel like they have to get dressed very quickly and the velvet slows them down Is it a textural issue? What is it for these guys? Okay, I Like them like that. Yes. Yes in our one of our guest rooms. We have matching 

  

Tonya Kubo (12:17) 

Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

  

Brian feels the same way. I love mine. 

  

Brian says they’re too thin. That’s why I like them. I like them because they’re so thin. 

  

Kathi Lipp (12:43) 

red plastic hangers. They’re not fancy, but they get the job done. But in my coat closet, we have, and I’ve got a link to them. They’re just wood hangers. They’re not crazy expensive, but they look so nice. And here’s a couple of reasons why I like them. One, the hangers go back to the closet they’re supposed to go to. Can I say that again? The hangers go back to the closet they’re supposed to. 

  

Tonya Kubo (12:44) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

you 

  

Kathi Lipp (13:12) 

So Roger doesn’t have wood hangers hanging out in his closet. I don’t have white plastic hangers from his closet hanging out in mine. And it curates your closet. If you have 12 hangers in your closet, maybe that’s eight for your coats and then four for guests. That’s plenty. That’s what we need. And there are only two people living in my house. Your house, but it also makes it look put together. It’s a very simple way. 

  

Tonya Kubo (13:31) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Right. 

  

Kathi Lipp (13:41) 

for it to visually come together very, very quickly. I love them. And it prevents coat pileups, know, those hangers that, you know, they just make me want to keep the space looking good. 

  

Tonya Kubo (13:54) 

Yeah, yeah, I could see that. Well, and especially, like I can even see an application just household wide if everybody had their own like designated hanger, then you’re putting laundry away. It’s very easy to pick out whose stuff is whose. So I really like that idea. So, okay. So, but there’s some things I think that go in coat closets. I say I think because I currently don’t have one, but I used to have one. 

  

Kathi Lipp (14:03) 

Yeah. Right. 

  

Yes. 

  

Mm-hmm. Right. 

  

Yes. Yeah. 

  

Tonya Kubo (14:18) 

that don’t go on hangers, hats, 

  

gloves, grocery bags. I mean, it depends on what you do, right? What do you do about that stuff? 

  

Kathi Lipp (14:23) 

Yeah. 

  

Yes. Okay, 

  

I’m gonna give you the best solution. I got these hanging baskets. They’re three tiers of hanging baskets. They hook on just like a hanger. So it’s got two hooks and it takes up a little bit of space, but we have one for gloves. We have one for scarves. We’ve got one for those grocery bags. I want you to think about it like this. 

  

Tonya Kubo (14:37) 

Okay? 

  

Kathi Lipp (14:51) 

What do I need to launch when I go out of the house? And if I open that coat closet, mine has two doors. That’s why if you’re watching the video here on YouTube, you will see me opening with two doors. But if you have those spaces, you can just open up and say, here’s everything I need to leave the house. And so having those hanging bins, 

  

Tonya Kubo (14:57) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Okay. 

  

Kathi Lipp (15:17) 

gives you things like, we have one for all of our moose supplies, know, so those, you know, poop bags and leashes and collars and things like that, reusable bags, bear spray, like there’s a space for everything. So nothing is on the bottom floor of that coat closet that you don’t want to be there. 

  

Tonya Kubo (15:21) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Great, okay, so you are always so good. This is the problem when we reverse roles is Kathi, you are always so good at counting us out and I have not been counting us out. So when it comes to decluttering the coat closet, so step one was you got rid of the coats you no longer wear. Step two was you don’t advocate this normally, but in the case of a small space like a coat closet, pulling everything out that doesn’t belong and then going through it and only putting the stuff back that makes sense. And then. 

  

Kathi Lipp (15:50) 

Yeah, that’s okay. 

  

Yes. 

  

Right. Right. 

  

Tonya Kubo (16:09) 

For step three, we talked about the matching hangers and just how that just feels good to look at. And then step four is hanging bins for the small items, the hats, the gloves, the grocery bags, bear spray in your case. All right, take me to step five. 

  

Kathi Lipp (16:13) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

It feels great. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yeah, so we like to have in our coat closet our car keys wallets purses and Yeah, we’re putting a lot in that coat closet so I want to be able to see what I have and we we introduced the USB rechargeable light that you can put in by a magnet This is another great place for it if your coat closet doesn’t already have a light 

  

Tonya Kubo (16:44) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (16:58) 

Or maybe your coat closet is in a hall where there’s a light outside the hall, but there’s not one inside. May I highly suggest, and we’ll put it again in the show notes, this USB light that is just installed with a magnet. You don’t need to rewire anything. It will give you, you can see into every nook and cranny. But the other magical thing in here, the thing I cannot live without, command hooks. I love. 

  

Tonya Kubo (17:24) 

yes, we like those at our house 

  

too. 

  

Kathi Lipp (17:26) 

Yes, 

  

I love a good command hook. So I use a command hook. I personally, I do have a bunch of different purses for different activities. I like a good handbag, but my wallet is on a loop. And so I can just hang my wallet on a command hook. We can hang all of our keys on a command hook. You can also put, if you want to do, 

  

Tonya Kubo (17:36) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (17:54) 

like your grocery shopping bags. If you don’t wanna put them into one of those hanging bins, you could put those on a command hook. You can use those for a million different things and they just make your life so, so much better. Dog leash, other small items, you use accordingly. 

  

Tonya Kubo (18:02) 

Mmm. 

  

Yeah, and so with the command hooks, you and we’ll link to those in the show notes as well. Those are nice because they attach with adhesive in most cases. And so you don’t have to worry about making holes anywhere or like, I don’t know, but if I have to put a screw or a nail in something suddenly that feels like home improvement and I’m not all about that life. 

  

Kathi Lipp (18:23) 

Yes. 

  

Yes. 

  

Yes, right. 

  

It’s a different level. What we’re talking about here, everything that we’ve shared about is A level. Or is it D, you know, is it F level? Let’s say it’s F level and A level is redoing your bathroom. No, we’re talking about stickers and hooks. That’s what we’re talking about here. Magnets, yes. 

  

Tonya Kubo (18:37) 

Yeah. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Right. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yeah, and so Kathi, you are the person who taught me about seasonal stuff, right? Because I grew up in a studio apartment with my mom, I’m used to everything being in one space all at the same time. But the last episode, we were talking a little bit about seasonal stuff, and we’re talking about seasonal stuff now with the coat closet especially. How do you rotate things or do you? 

  

Kathi Lipp (19:05) 

Right. 

  

Right. Right. 

  

Yeah. 

  

And, Tonya, let’s also say you grew up in central California, where the seasons are not quite as different as they are in Minnesota. Right, exactly. And broiling hot, yes. So, yes, but living up here, I have definitely learned about seasonality. And so we just have a little space in our garage for out of season. So the same bin is either 

  

Tonya Kubo (19:28) 

Cold, not cold. That’s all we got. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (19:49) 

summer or winter right now because we’re recording this in February, it’s going out in March. We have all of our bug spray, our sunscreen, all of that kind of stuff out in our garage in a bin and inside we have our scarves, our gloves, our ice scraper, that kind of thing. So think of your coat closet or your launch pad, whatever it is. 

  

Tonya Kubo (20:11) 

Mmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (20:16) 

as one of the most valuable pieces of real estate in your house. And when you redo this, keep everything out of there that you are not potentially going to use in the next week or so. So like right now, I don’t have my summer jacket hanging in there. Yeah, and so just what I could open up and say, you know what? I have a purpose for almost everything in here in the next couple of weeks. 

  

Tonya Kubo (20:30) 

Okay. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Okay, one more question, Kathi. What about the floor? Because I know some people have a strict, like, nothing goes on the floor rule in a closet. I know that you happen to be a space maximizer, so I have a feeling that you’ve got some solutions there. 

  

Kathi Lipp (20:47) 

Yes. Yeah. 

  

Right. 

  

Guess. 

  

So here’s what I would say with that is that, you know, if I leave room for things like when my kids had backpacks for school, or if you have a folding grocery cart, if you live in a really urban area, you probably have a folding grocery cart that needs to go somewhere. Or do you have a bag of library books that need to be returned? You know, what? 

  

Tonya Kubo (21:12) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (21:30) 

whatever I grab on my way out, I also, if I was going to work every day, I might have my computer backpack there. Right now, those things are probably existing in your living space because on the floor of your coat closet is nonsense because that’s what was on the floor of my coat closet. So, you know, 

  

Tonya Kubo (21:39) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (21:59) 

So what I personally have on the floor of my coat closet, and my coat closet isn’t like a full length thing, it’s a half length thing, but I have cooler bags because when we go to town, I’m going to use a Costco cooler, at least in the winter, to put in my fresh meat and stuff. In the summer, we’re bringing our Yeti. Like that’s a different thing. But… 

  

Tonya Kubo (22:19) 

Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

  

Kathi Lipp (22:23) 

What do you actually use and need to be there? It should not be long-term storage for things you don’t touch all year. It’s things that you actually use. And if your kids could put their backpacks there, if you could put your work backpack there, I think that’s a great use of space. 

  

Tonya Kubo (22:30) 

Yeah. 

  

Okay, and so now we get to the part where we’ve got to talk about the nemesis of all of our cluttery peeps. We’ve got the coat closet all beautifully decluttered, organized. How do we keep it from getting junked up again? 

  

Kathi Lipp (22:45) 

Yes. 

  

Mm-hmm. Right. 

  

Yeah, so when you bring new items in, remove something old. You know, the one in, one out. You know, when you think about coats, we probably don’t need 40, okay? Roger and I both need a nice coat. Think church or going out to dinner. An everyday winter coat, an everyday lighter coat, and a raincoat. If I get a new coat, I get rid of an old one. 

  

Tonya Kubo (23:11) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

Mm-hmm. 

  

Kathi Lipp (23:23) 

Now, you may have more coat needs, that’s okay. But do you have 20 coat needs? And do they all need to be in that coat closet space? What if you picked the three or four coats that you use most of the time and use that? And then also, as you’re changing things over from winter to summer, just clear it out. 

  

Tonya Kubo (23:24) 

Okay. 

  

Kathi Lipp (23:52) 

Do I need to get rid of more coats? Do I need to get rid of some of these scarves? The other thing is, do you need seven scarves? Do you need 12 beanies? Do you need all of those mittens and gloves? Think about what do you actually use and what do you actually need? That’s the maintenance you need to do. And can I tell you, once you get this set up, your maintenance is gonna be so minimal. It’s gonna take five minutes. 

  

Tonya Kubo (24:18) 

Well, I was gonna say like maximum would be about 20 minutes a week, right? Like five minutes a day. If you can just do a quick swipe through, especially during the times of year where your coat closet is in more heavy use. 

  

Kathi Lipp (24:22) 

Yes. Yes. 

  

Yeah. 

  

Right, absolutely. 

  

Tonya Kubo (24:33) 

my goodness, Kathi, thank you so much. These have been great tips. I especially appreciate all the resources that we’re going to have available in the show notes, mainly because that’s how I access them after the episodes as well. Like I probably use our website more often than anybody else around here. Any final thoughts, encouragement, tips that you would give to our listeners? 

  

Kathi Lipp (24:40) 

Mm-hmm. Yes. 

  

I love it. 

  

How do you want to start your day? If your coat closet could be your launch pad to say, this is where my keys are. This is where, maybe you keep your lunch bag there after work or something like that. But how do I want to approach my day each day? Do I want to be able to find things in there easily? Do I want to be able to know where my coat is? 

  

I think the reason that we don’t use our coat closets so much is because they’re filled with nonsense. At least that’s why I wasn’t using it. Instead of thinking, you know what, this is a tucked away space for things that I use every single day. Your space should be stuff that you use at least five out of seven days a week. So if you think about it that way, it’s really going to curate what belongs in that space and what doesn’t. 

  

Tonya Kubo (25:28) 

Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

  

beautiful tips. So we’re gonna curate what belongs in the space and what doesn’t. And we’re doing that by, just to summarize the steps, removing the unwanted coats, unwanted stuff that’s extra in that space. We’re gonna pull out the items that don’t belong, get matching hangers. You’ll thank us later, cause they’re beautiful. Hanging bins are ideal for those things that don’t hang. And then of course, command hooks, get that rechargeable light. I don’t know about you, but I’m running out to get one today. 

  

Kathi Lipp (26:05) 

Mm-hmm. 

  

They’re so great. 

  

Tonya Kubo (26:16) 

and 

  

rotate things seasonally. Not everything needs to live in the same space, same time all year long. Now, I believe we’re going to have a download available with all these tips in our show notes, right? You’re so excited. This was all Kathi’s idea, guys. I would never think of this, so just know that. Kathi thought of this because she knows you well. And we want to hear, so we want you to download that resource from our show notes, but then we want to hear from you over in the free Facebook group and you can find 

  

Kathi Lipp (26:22) 

Mm. 

  

We are! Yes! 

  

Tonya Kubo (26:44) 

all the links, all the information in the show notes. Kathi, thank you for letting me interview you. This has been so much fun. 

  

Kathi Lipp (26:51) 

my goodness. 

  

You know what? And I love doing this because it inspires me in these spaces and I need the inspiration just like everybody else. 

  

Tonya Kubo (27:00) 

Oh, I feel the same way. listeners, I just want to say thank you for hanging out with us for this 25 minutes or so. You have been listening to Clutterfree Academy. I’m Tonya Kubo with Kathi Lipp. Now go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.