Kathi Lipp (00:19.512)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am back. We are with our five daily habits for 2025 and it’s with Tonya Kubo. Hey Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (00:37.018)

Hey there, Kathi.

Kathi Lipp (00:38.638)

I know you have a very, very, very businessy podcast. How does it feel to do a very business podcast? And then we’re talking about how to clean toilets and how to organize your sock drawer. Like, do you feel like you get whiplash between your podcasts?

Tonya Kubo (00:56.859)

especially since the recording days are the same usually. But yeah, it’s kind of fun. It’s kind of fun to have such a difference.

Kathi Lipp (01:00.552)

no, I didn’t know that.

You get to use very, yeah, you get to use very different parts of your brain. Yeah. OK, well, we are back and we are talking about a subject that we don’t talk about very often, and that is cleaning. some people, people always tell me I have a cleaning podcast and I’m like, no, I do not have a cleaning podcast. That’s that’s not who I am. But I have a decluttering podcast and you have to get, you know.

Tonya Kubo (01:10.714)

That is true.

Tonya Kubo (01:27.683)

Ew.

Tonya Kubo (01:32.057)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (01:34.164)

It’s it’s great to declutter before you clean. So you actually have something to clean but I will be honest with you One i’m much better about cleaning than I used to be and two I do have somebody who comes twice a month that does like all the floors all the the you know, the big scrubs, you know, she’s the one who is Down on her hands and knees for the bathtub like that. That just is not my favorite thing. And so i’ve

Tonya Kubo (02:02.97)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (02:04.072)

I’ve decided to exchange a certain amount of money to not have to do that. And by the way, her name is Kelly and she is, she has become a wonderful friend and she loves to clean. Like she says, you know, every once in a while I just can’t sleep. So I get up and clean. I’m like, that has never ever happened to me. No, no. But here’s, here’s what I know. Two things. One.

Tonya Kubo (02:22.566)

Happened to me in my entire life, Kathi Lipp. Never.

Kathi Lipp (02:32.942)

Kelly is not here every day, which makes me very sad. I wish she was here every day. My life would be so much better if Kelly was here every day, but that is not our lives. Also, there are times when Kelly can’t come. We had a five month period this year where it was me and Roger, because she had some shoulder surgery, so it was up to us.

Tonya Kubo (02:37.904)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:00.972)

For most of my life, it’s been up to me. And so I’ve had to learn some things and I know that one of the things that really gets me, don’t, tell me if you play these mental games. First of all, one of my mental games when it comes to cleaning is, well, it’s not really dirty. I’m gonna wait till it’s really dirty, cause I’ll feel so much satisfaction when it’s clean. Has that, that, right? my goodness. my goodness. Then I also think,

Tonya Kubo (03:22.981)

Instant gratification!

Kathi Lipp (03:31.246)

it’s so dirty. It’s going to take so long. I don’t have enough time. And so I can’t do it. I swing wildly between those two things and have for years and am just now coming to terms with how to deal with it. And I feel like I had a massive breakthrough today that I I’m going to share with us on number two, but no, yes, number two. Yes. But let me do number one first.

Tonya Kubo (03:35.76)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (03:44.326)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (03:57.45)

I feel like this is the secret tip that we hear everybody talk about, but it really has made the biggest difference in my life. And that is making my bed. I know, okay, what’s your face, Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (04:12.518)

no, I’m sorry. Yes, making your bed is not something we do here in the Kubo household. It is not, yeah.

Kathi Lipp (04:19.712)

Okay, that’s okay. Maybe it has a different psychological effect on different people. Here’s how I think about making my bed. One, I have just made at least a quarter of my room, like decluttered and clean in two minutes. So that makes me super happy. Two, Roger loves getting into a made bed. I like it. He loves it. And he is, I will say,

Tonya Kubo (04:26.533)

Ha ha ha.

Tonya Kubo (04:44.282)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (04:49.646)

Probably 50 % of the time the bedmaker in our house and was not that way when we got married so and then Three it’s a surface that I can fold clothes on It is a surface that I can do projects on for some reason that helps me but that two-minute win Clicks off my day. Is there something like that? That is like, okay if I do this I feel better about the rest of my house

Tonya Kubo (04:52.909)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (05:02.714)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (05:18.632)

yeah, for me it’s cleaning off the kitchen table. Like, Brian will tell you hands down, the state of the kitchen table has a direct correlation to my mental health.

Kathi Lipp (05:21.29)

Okay, yeah.

Kathi Lipp (05:29.926)

Interesting. Okay. Okay. It is the opposite for me. Like it has no correlation to my mental health. So that is fascinating. That is fascinating. So you know, whatever that is for you, that cleaning habit that feels like it kicks off all the other things. Make that happen. Okay, number two, this is where I feel like I had my big aha moment today.

Tonya Kubo (05:37.845)

Yeah, no, for me it’s the kitchen table.

Tonya Kubo (05:54.85)

Okay, we want to hear it, Kathi. We want to hear it.

Kathi Lipp (05:58.146)

patch at a time and Let me explain what that means because it means nothing to you right now So you’ve been in my upstairs bathroom. We did a beautiful remodel on that bathroom It makes me so happy every time I go in there the one thing that maybe if I could change on that remodel Would be the floor. I don’t know if you remember the floor it is it’s like

Tonya Kubo (06:02.47)

Hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:20.571)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:24.76)

I just know it heats up and I love that about it.

Kathi Lipp (06:27.402)

Okay, yes, I’m sorry. I’m saying the wrong thing. That floor I love. It’s the shower floor that Yeah, so it is like a pebbly thing and it gets these spots on them and so I bought a tool that is basically a scrubber. It’s a it’s a scrubber that swirls around and it’s electric

Tonya Kubo (06:34.642)

okay.

Kathi Lipp (06:57.046)

So it’s almost like a mop, but it’s a scrubber. But I’m always telling myself I don’t have time to do the entire thing, right? So it just goes on with the spots and it just never looks exactly right. So this morning I’m like, I’m just gonna do six square inches. I’m just gonna do six square inches. And then tomorrow I can do another six square inches because I never seem to have a morning where it’s like,

Tonya Kubo (06:59.546)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (07:19.846)

you

Kathi Lipp (07:26.54)

wow, this is a morning where I have lots of time to clean. Like that morning has not materialized in my life. So I did the six square inches and I’m like, that was easier than I remember. So I did another six square inches and I did another and it took me about four whole minutes to clean the shower floor. But I was okay with just doing the six square inches today and then tomorrow doing another six square inches.

Tonya Kubo (07:40.693)

Mmm.

Tonya Kubo (07:55.183)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (07:55.82)

And we talked about this with decluttering on our last podcast that all or nothing feeling that all like I have to do the whole kitchen counter. Well, no, you don’t actually have to do the whole kitchen counter. You know, do you do you feel like you don’t clean because you feel like you have to do the kitchen sink, the kitchen counter, the stovetop? It all has to be done at once. And I have come more to a rotation theory like

Tonya Kubo (08:01.84)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (08:08.325)

No.

Tonya Kubo (08:18.896)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:26.146)

I can clean the sink after we do dishes at night and then that’ll be great. I can also do the counters after we do dishes, but maybe I’ll do the stovetop in the morning because I’ll have a little bit more time to do that. I think it’s okay. Not everything has to be clean all at the same time. You know, there are two days a year where that has to happen Christmas and Thanksgiving because you have people coming over. Everything else is optional.

Tonya Kubo (08:39.354)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (08:55.883)

Is there anything that you do by patches? know you do your kitchen counter decluttering by patches anything else like in the cleaning realm?

Tonya Kubo (09:01.584)

Mm-hmm.

Well, like my bathroom is always done in patches. Like I focus on one aspect of the bathroom every day. So, so like the bathroom sink only gets like cleaned once a week. You know, that’s like one example, like do I clear it off? Do I take a baby wipe and wipe it down sometimes? Sure. But there’s like one day a week where it’s like, okay, like yesterday was the day, which is why it’s fresh in my mind. I clean that.

Kathi Lipp (09:07.512)

Mmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:11.182)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:17.97)

Mmm, okay, yeah.

Kathi Lipp (09:26.562)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (09:32.3)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (09:33.734)

the bathtub about once a week, once every other week, because we don’t take a lot of baths. So over there, tends to be the dust. But it’s just every day I go, what needs to be done here?

Kathi Lipp (09:38.179)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (09:41.9)

Yes, absolutely.

Kathi Lipp (09:46.838)

Right and you know, I hear these people online who talk about I just have my routine every day and I do the exact same thing So that my kitchen is always in perfect order that will never be me. It will never ever be me That is not the life I live And so i’m okay with that

Tonya Kubo (09:53.318)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (10:03.62)

Yeah, I think it just, it just depends. Like it depends on a lot, right? Like I know people who genuinely cannot fall asleep at night if they know there’s a dirty dish in their sink. There are a lot of things, Kathi, that keep me up at night. Dirty dishes in my sink is just not one of them.

Kathi Lipp (10:13.591)

Great.

Kathi Lipp (10:17.878)

Yes. Yes.

Kathi Lipp (10:24.138)

It’s not one of them. It is not one of them. so, and it’s okay if you’re that person like Kelly who cleans my house, that’s her. And she has skills that I do not have. I wish that I had been born with some of those skills. I just don’t have them. But you know, the reason you want to be clean, one is because yeah, we want it to look nice. We want it to feel nice. But two, we’re trying to keep people alive, you know? So like things that keep people alive.

Tonya Kubo (10:29.53)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (10:48.944)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (10:52.014)

You know, disinfecting the counters, disinfecting the sink. Like those things are important to me, but having a spotless refrigerator every day of the year is not as important to me. I do it on a, you know, at least once a month I’m going in there kind of cleaning things out. If there’s a spill, I’m cleaning it up. But I’m just trying to be realistic with the life I actually live and keeping on top of it. Okay. Number three.

Tonya Kubo (10:58.0)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:09.733)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:19.754)

A nightly kitchen reset. you know, we’ve talked about this before. Roger does the dishes. I, I clean the kitchen. And so I am just doing a spritz and swipe, you know, spritz, spritz, swipe it down spritz. It’s not like a deep cleaning on TikTok all the time. There are these videos of people going in with steam cleaners. like, what are you doing? Are you butchering in your kitchen? Like, why do you need that deep of a clean?

Tonya Kubo (11:32.07)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:36.229)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (11:50.094)

The other thing that I like to do is I am going back to number two patch at a time if there’s something on the floor I’m getting out the Swiffer mop and I’m just doing that spot and You know, it’s I’m not doing a full kitchen mop all the time. I we just don’t live that kind of life We did at one point, especially when we had two small kids in the golden retriever There was a lot of mopping going on. But now it’s more getting that

Tonya Kubo (11:55.108)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (12:02.223)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (12:08.048)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:14.703)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (12:19.086)

But the nightly kitchen reset is just putting things away It’s wiping things down and then maybe one extra thing like yesterday I noticed that the inside of the microwave was not great So it was wiping that down or maybe the front of the refrigerator. I don’t know I don’t know how it happens, but it’s usually after I’ve been cooking for a while I go to Open up the refrigerator. I’m like, why does that handle?

Tonya Kubo (12:33.712)

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (12:48.61)

Feel crumbly like that’s not a good feeling so i’m just gonna do that But i’m not gonna do usually all of that at the same time So there is a bit of a reset, but it’s not a full reset every night So for you, it’s the kitchen table Do you have in your perfect world? Is the kitchen table completely cleared off or is there something on it? It’s it’s a flat surface that makes you

Tonya Kubo (12:50.406)

Hmm.

Tonya Kubo (13:00.846)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (13:05.007)

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (13:10.02)

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (13:13.59)

It is naked! I want a naked kitchen table.

Kathi Lipp (13:18.182)

I love it so much. Okay, we’re gonna take a quick break. We’re gonna come back with our last two things like, is one of these a habit that you could pull out for 2025? Because even if you can incorporate one of these things into your routine, it’s gonna make your life so much better. Okay, we’ll be right back.

Okay, we are back with our five habits for 2025. Okay, number four, a bathroom wipe down. So you said that you don’t like wipe down everything every night. I do tend to do that because we are dirty, filthy pigs, Tonya. I don’t know what it is, but the toothpaste, the grimy, I don’t know what it is. We’re just gross.

Tonya Kubo (13:51.974)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (14:03.47)

Yeah, so here’s my problem, right, with wiping things down is I’m the first person who goes to bed. I go to bed a good two hours before anybody else in my house. So I used to have a routine where I would wipe everything down. You know, I’d wipe down the kitchen, wipe down, because I don’t wash the dishes either. Let’s be very honest about this. Like that’s a Brian thing. But you know, I’d go in, wipe down the kitchen, wipe down the bathroom. But what would happen is I will wake up and there will be toothpaste

Kathi Lipp (14:13.527)

Wow.

Kathi Lipp (14:17.74)

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (14:32.376)

like hanging off the edges of the sink because three people brushed their teeth after I went to bed and I got very grumpy waking up in the morning to a sink that did not look like it did when I went to bed that night.

Kathi Lipp (14:34.888)

Hahaha!

Kathi Lipp (14:41.342)

Right, right.

Kathi Lipp (14:50.208)

Right, right, right, right. We also have another issue that you have experienced. If I don’t wipe down that sink on a regular basis, it turns blue. And that’s not the color I want for my sink. We have copper and yeah, we’ve got something, I don’t know. It’s.

Tonya Kubo (15:07.876)

I was like, I would describe it as a teal, but let’s not have the blush versus bashful argument on the show. But it is, yeah, it’s kind of a pretty blue-green, but not really what you’re looking for with the house.

Kathi Lipp (15:11.085)

Yes.

Kathi Lipp (15:14.9)

Right, yeah, it’s not the color.

It’s beautiful. Not what I’m looking for. Yes, absolutely. So I do tend to wipe those things down and yeah, I do like to wake up to a clean sink too. Now it’s harder for you because you have four people in your bathroom. I just have Roger and Roger’s neater than me. Let’s just be honest.

Tonya Kubo (15:25.861)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (15:34.882)

Yes, four people, one bathroom.

Tonya Kubo (15:39.662)

And I will say one thing I do twice a day, right? Before I go to bed and then when I wake up in the morning is I pick up all the things that have been left on the floor in the bathroom and I put those in the dirty laundry. Cause most of it it’s like towels. Why can nobody put their pants and their underpants in the hamper? I don’t know, but I’m picking up everybody’s pants, putting them where they go.

Kathi Lipp (15:49.056)

Mm-hmm. Mm, yeah, smart.

Kathi Lipp (16:07.027)

bless their hearts, we love them. We love them so much.

Tonya Kubo (16:08.677)

We do love them. But, you know, I don’t want to trip over stuff.

Kathi Lipp (16:14.063)

Yep, I totally get it. Okay. Number five Is a room by room rotation So I don’t do this perfectly but I do it pretty much every day where i’m just going to go spend Five to 15 minutes cleaning something up now one thing I do have and some people might consider this a luxury. I consider it a necessity I have a set of cleaning supplies on each floor so

Tonya Kubo (16:22.63)

Mmm.

Tonya Kubo (16:41.762)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (16:43.686)

In upstairs, have all the toilet cleaner. Well, let’s be honest, in each bathroom, I have toilet bowl cleaner. I have the wipe down stuff. I have the shower cleaner. I also have on each floor of the house, my handy vac and a vacuum. And that makes a huge difference because if I had to take a vacuum up and down the stairs, nothing would ever happen. It would never happen. It just would not happen.

Tonya Kubo (16:51.354)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (17:07.568)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:11.872)

And so I have those supplies on each floor and I have supplies like we have a set of supplies in our bathroom and then in our other bathroom. And that makes a difference. But I just spend five to 15 minutes in a different room. Now we have a couple of rooms that we don’t use pretty regularly and I’ve closed those off. So I don’t really count those, but we have the kitchen, the living room, the dining room, our bedroom, my office, Roger’s office and all the bathrooms.

Tonya Kubo (17:21.274)

Hmm.

Kathi Lipp (17:41.71)

You know every day I’ll just pick a room that’s like making me a little insane and just spend five to fifteen minutes like Roger’s Office bathroom I can clean that whole thing in about five minutes. It’s it’s the world’s smallest bathroom. It doesn’t have a shower or anything like that. But you know my bathroom that’s gonna take you know I’m not gonna spend a half hour 45 minutes on it

Tonya Kubo (17:47.236)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (17:56.238)

Right. Yes. Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (18:08.386)

I’m just gonna do 15 minutes to get it back into fighting order. Now, if you’re cleaning your whole house and you have a huge house, you’re gonna need to dedicate more time to that. But Roger is very invested in the happy marriage and me and him, by the way, like every minute I’m cleaning, he would be cleaning too, because that’s just how our marriage works. And he doesn’t wanna spend all that time cleaning on Saturdays either.

Tonya Kubo (18:12.367)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (18:18.926)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (18:28.368)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (18:34.394)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (18:34.478)

That’s not what he wants to be doing either. And so we’ve decided this investment for us. And by the way, it’s a lot less expensive here than it is other parts of the country. I’m not going to lie. We’re very grateful. And we forced her to take raises because we’re like, you’re actually worth more than you’re charging. So Tonya, any cleaning things that are a habit for you that I, I should have mentioned, but I didn’t because I don’t know the secret life of Tonya Kubo.

Tonya Kubo (18:44.218)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (18:48.162)

Yeah

Tonya Kubo (19:01.99)

Well, I think so for me a lot of it has to do with splitting up the labor, which I think we’ve covered but I would just like to Yeah Well because they’re splitting up the labor between people but also between sessions I think a lot of us claim the way that we were taught and some of us were never taught anything, right? So So it’s this hodgepodge of things, but you don’t actually

Kathi Lipp (19:10.166)

We can never talk about it enough. We can never talk about it enough.

Kathi Lipp (19:22.688)

Mmm. Right. Right.

Tonya Kubo (19:30.874)

have to mop right after you sweep. You could sweep before bed and mop first thing in the morning.

Kathi Lipp (19:33.89)

That’s true. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. You just want to do it before the grime builds up.

Tonya Kubo (19:42.902)

Right. But I mean, that’s a possibility. There have been asked there have been times in my life because there’s been times in my life, like when I was in grad school and working full time and Abby was too, we had a housekeeper. But there have been times in my life where I could I had time to fill the mop bucket and I had time to like mop. But if I had to sweep before I did it, it wasn’t going to happen. So I have mopped a gross, dirty floor that has not been swept and just said, you know what?

Kathi Lipp (19:44.696)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (20:07.138)

Right.

Yeah, right?

Tonya Kubo (20:12.41)

Whatever ends up in the mop water ends up in the mop water. I’ll dump it out. I’ll sweep afterward. Like, you know, you just have to decide what the priority is. There are days I would prefer personally that we clean the entire fridge, that we empty out the fridge, clean it, wipe down all the shelves prior to going grocery shopping. That would be my perfect scenario. Sometimes, however, all we have time to do is like clear out the leftover containers.

Kathi Lipp (20:17.56)

Yeah?

Kathi Lipp (20:31.214)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (20:34.904)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (20:42.316)

Yeah, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (20:43.398)

And I only have time to wipe down the fridge maybe once a week, once a month, once every other month, who knows? So I think those are some things that we need to give ourselves grace to do what works for us right now. I know a lot of our Clutter Free for Life members, because we talk a little bit more about cleaning there, not because it’s a cleaning program, but just we just go deeper in that program. And I know a lot of members, hear like

Kathi Lipp (21:06.979)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (21:10.97)

They hear a parent voice in their head scolding them for being lazy, for being a slob, know, all these ugly names. And so I just think we need to be kind to ourselves and understand that going back to the beginning, right, waiting until it gets super grimy and where we can feel that satisfaction, that actually isn’t kind to ourselves.

Kathi Lipp (21:14.412)

Right.

Kathi Lipp (21:22.179)

Yeah.

Kathi Lipp (21:28.43)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (21:33.834)

It’s not. And you know what? You should listen to those voices if they’re coming over to your house to clean. If they’re showing up with their mop and bucket, go off clean. You can clean however you want. But also, this is why I don’t micromanage how Roger cleans, which is different than how I clean, because different things are important to him. I’m just grateful it’s getting done. I’m grateful. And he’s grateful it’s getting done when I do it. And that’s a beautiful thing.

Tonya Kubo (21:40.006)

Amen.

Tonya Kubo (21:46.548)

Hahaha

Tonya Kubo (21:53.232)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (22:03.266)

The last thing I’m going to say is when you are feeling really stressed and really behind the two things I would really encourage you to stay on top of if at all possible, it’s laundry and dishes. Like those are the things that are harder. They’re harder if you let them go. And so I, I want you to be able to come downstairs if you live upstairs, you know, and there is room to put dishes in your sink.

Tonya Kubo (22:10.618)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:16.261)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (22:21.008)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:28.208)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi Lipp (22:32.184)

There is room to put dishes if you have a dishwasher. You don’t have to go hunting for clothes. So stay on top of those routines because a dirty floor takes kind of the same amount of time unless it’s really, really bad. But I just want you to be able to live in peace with the processes you have. Tonya, this has been so good. Thank you so much.

Tonya Kubo (22:39.735)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:56.934)

Thanks for having this conversation. This is a good one.

Kathi Lipp (23:00.074)

Yeah, I needed to hear it today too. And friends, thank you for being here. And if you’re feeling behind on cleaning, just know that you are going to be okay. Start to put some little routines into your life that are going to take care of your future self, because that’s what we’re about. You’ve been listening to Clutter-Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter-free life you’ve always wanted to live.