629 How to Incorporate Vintage Finds Without the Clutter

What are some creative ways you display vintage collections without overwhelming a space?

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Meet Our Guest

Hilary Prall

Hilary Prall is the creative mind behind Hilary Prall Blog, an online destination for vibrant, eclectic interior design. Hilary’s passion is creating unique, beautiful spaces that work for real-life budgets. Through her website and digital channels, she shares her colorful home design, DIY ideas, and a penchant for repurposing thrifted items with inspo-seekers all over.

Hilary’s design brightens the feeds of almost 40k fans on Instagram and Facebook. She has been featured regularly on Des Moines NBC affiliate WHO-TV, home retailer blogs, and several online magazines. She offers an array of affordable digital products that provide design help with the click of a mouse.

Before starting Hilary Prall Blog in 2015, Hilary spent years at a job that wasn’t her true calling. That experience, though, is what drives her enthusiasm for encouraging others to pursue their dreams and supporting other entrepreneurs.

A life that blends work, creative interests, and family provides ongoing inspiration as Hilary and husband Jason (with support from Cooper the corgi and Sheldon + Howard the cats) turn the transformation of their builder-grade ranch home into endless sources of design ideas. When she’s not tinkering at home, the next best bets are thrifting, road-tripping, trying a locally-owned restaurant, or enjoying the outdoors.

Visit her at www.hilaryprall.com.

Transcript

Kathi (00:01.381)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy, where our heart is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And we are back. If you didn’t get to hear last week’s episode with designer Hilary Prall,

and content creator, and she’s just fabulous, you guys. You just need to go check her out. Go take a listen to that, because I think that that was a really rich and interesting conversation. Hilary is the daughter of a hoarder and has had to walk through that journey. And as many of you know, both Tonya and I have walked through that journey as well. And to get a little bit of an idea of what you can and cannot do in that journey.

Hilary Prall (00:32.557)

You

Kathi (01:00.549)

But today I want to tap into the other side of Hilary’s life and that is about the design side and You know Hilary I’m sure you said that you’re still going through some of your mom’s things like you’re still working on that situation in your life and That’s been kind of exhausting and I thought it was such an interesting point when we are surrounded by so much clutter

whether it’s ours or somebody else’s, it really can deplete you artistically, creatively, emotionally. Is that what you’ve been going through the past couple of years?

Hilary Prall (01:44.907)

Yeah, I think I just, I mean, aside from just, you know, the suddenness of losing my mom, but then knowing that I was gonna have to deal with all of this stuff. And it feels very lonely. I mean, people will offer to help you, but they have no idea. And we have had very helpful people in it. The sort of…

part of this is that my mom had gotten remarried and we love him and are very thankful to have him in our lives. We’re his only family. He’s our only family at this point. But it’s his house. And so, you know, whereas most people we would have sorted through everything and then had an auction or an estate sale, we have had to work around him and schlepping it and, you know,

Kathi (02:26.853)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hilary Prall (02:38.794)

my husband likes to be very efficient and not touch things three times or four times. And it was, you know, and we’ve sort of had to deal with him saying, it’s totally fine. And he has been very patient, but then he would get a wild hair and like clear out a whole section of stuff and shove it in a closet. And so it’s like, so now I have to re go through that closet. So just kind of, you know, that part of, and then she lived an hour away. So just a lot of things that made.

Kathi (02:42.853)

Right.

Kathi (03:00.261)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:07.977)

made it all just a little bit harder. It’s like, you know, couldn’t something be a little easier? So we have the bulk of it done now. The other thing is we had to go through every box because it was just, she did try to get organized several times. And so there would be stuff mixed in that shouldn’t have been and whatever. So we have the bulk of it done to the point that the rest can easily be.

Kathi (03:13.797)

Right.

Kathi (03:20.933)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:33.161)

donated or taken to auction in just one of our vehicles. We had to rent a moving truck for the big auction. And then she just had a lot of jewelry. So I have taken, I think, three loads now to a local jewelry store to have to sell the metal. She had a lot of costume, but also, I mean, it’s worth money, the gold. So I probably have one.

Kathi (03:39.429)

Yeah.

Kathi (03:44.549)

Hmm.

Kathi (03:52.869)

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (04:00.392)

maybe one more, two more loads to take of that. So just the time that it takes. So it takes all your free time. And so, you know, I would do whatever work I could during the week that I felt like doing for myself, for my own business, keeping our house running. And then, you know, we really tried on the weekends to get down there and do some work. So.

Kathi (04:08.677)

Yeah.

Kathi (04:15.973)

Yeah.

Kathi (04:23.205)

Hilary, let me ask you a question before we dive into the design and decorating side of things. I was just listening to a great person on TikTok whose mother suddenly passed away. And she said she was giving advice for any parents out there about wills and estates and trusts and things like that. It was great, really terrific advice. I would love to hear from you as somebody who is going through the thick of it.

What would your top piece of advice be for somebody like your mom? Like, is there a list she could have left? What could she have done to make this a little bit easier? We know she wasn’t gonna get herself organized, but is there something she could have done? And then what would be your top piece of advice for somebody who’s in your situation, who’s going into a hoarder’s house? Who, what?

Hilary Prall (05:10.631)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:20.677)

I would love those two pieces of advice.

Hilary Prall (05:24.966)

So I think both pieces of advice can work for both parties. So number one, we’ve talked about this a whole bunch. Thankfully, my mom left us some money to work with. There was money in the estate, but no matter what you’re doing to get rid of stuff, it costs money. Dumpsters cost money. You can take stuff to the Goodwill or whatever, but when you’re talking about a hoarder’s house,

Kathi (05:29.029)

Okay.

Kathi (05:37.765)

Okay.

Hilary Prall (05:52.485)

And I know people think about hoarders as being dirty. My mom wasn’t like that. I think she could have gone down that road had she not gotten remarried. It was just such tremendous volumes of stuff. Some of it, you know, there was mold involved and things like that. But you have to somehow get it to wherever it’s going. And you can’t. It’s not just going to be a, you know, a few loads to goodwill. Number one, they don’t want all that stuff in one trip.

Kathi (05:52.581)

Yeah.

Kathi (05:57.893)

Yeah.

Kathi (06:20.357)

Right.

Hilary Prall (06:21.509)

but you have to somehow get rid of it. Thankfully we lived close enough that it was reasonable, but if you lived out of state, I don’t know what people would do if you’re not close. I mean, so have some money set aside, I guess. If you are not the parent and you’re the person who you know you’re gonna have to deal with this, I would start maybe talking to figure out.

Kathi (06:30.021)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (06:37.029)

Yes.

Hilary Prall (06:47.492)

Where’s my local auction? Who does the state sales? Now, again, other situations, you might be able to have someone come in and do the auction there or whatever. And a lot of times with hoarders, if it’s bad, the stuff’s not salvageable. So you could call, like you can hire 1 -800 -GOT -JUNK, but maybe just come up with a game plan of some sort of how you are gonna liquidate it because it is a lot and it’s a lot of work and it’s, you know,

Kathi (07:01.125)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (07:14.373)

Mmm.

Hilary Prall (07:17.156)

Again, you don’t want to, I don’t like to ask for help. That’s my personality, but at some point we just needed some bodies to help us get stuff upstairs and not completely break our bodies and burn out. So just how you’re gonna deal with it, the finances, what that looks like. We’ve spent a lot of money just trying to get rid of stuff, which seems crazy.

Kathi (07:21.893)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:30.629)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:42.949)

It does.

Hilary Prall (07:44.611)

The other thing that I think would be helpful, luckily, like I have said, I love old stuff. I have always loved old stuff. A lot of the stuff I have now acquired that was family, I looked at at my grandma’s house when she had it. And so I would just pour through stuff. So I knew what was a lot of family stuff. My sister would have had no idea, because she doesn’t care about that stuff. I wish I would have asked or,

Kathi (07:59.973)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (08:13.282)

enforced a little bit more with my mom, please write down the history of this or who did this belong to. Because at a certain point, not that it matters, you know, like 50 years from now, I’m not going to care if my nieces keep everything that was mine. And I don’t think that our ancestors think that you should. But it is important to you know, if something’s really important or has provenance, you should

Kathi (08:18.085)

Hmm, yeah.

Kathi (08:30.597)

Right.

Kathi (08:34.405)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (08:40.546)

want to know those stories. And I did know some of it, but I wish either my mom had done more or I had asked more about it because she held on to those things so tightly that we didn’t know a lot of the stories behind them. There are things that I remember from my childhood, even from our own house that I wanted to hold on to, but I just wish I knew a little bit more of the history behind some of the stuff.

Kathi (09:02.565)

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, my mom is putting Post -it notes under things. And just to say a little bit about where she got that milk glass or whatever the thing is. And like, she is, you know, for a long time when I would go visit her, she would say, don’t throw away the milk glass. You can sell it, or you can keep it, but don’t throw it away. And I’m like, okay, mom.

Hilary Prall (09:10.241)

Okay, yeah.

Hilary Prall (09:15.905)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (09:27.36)

Yep. Yep.

Kathi (09:28.869)

I’m learning about milk glass. I promise but you know, I just want to hear I want I want everybody who is in our clutter free Listening audience to hear what Hilary has said that Your mom who I’m sure was a lovely but complicated person Left you with a task that has left you feeling alone and

Hilary Prall (09:31.904)

Yes.

Kathi (09:58.341)

I don’t think any of us would wish that upon our children. And so to hear what Hilary is saying, if there are things that you can do right now, if there are things you can get rid of right now, if there are the stories that you can tell about those items so that your child or whomever is, your nieces, your nephews, your grandkids, whomever it is, they don’t.

End up feeling alone. I think that would be list. That would be a great service that you have provided here Hilary Okay, I want to talk about more fun things. Let’s talk about fun Okay So I want you love vintage. I think a lot of our cluttery people do I think one of the things and when I say cluttery people I count myself as as one of those people so i’m not pointing any finger. Well, if i’m pointing fingers i’m pointing them back at me but

Hilary Prall (10:29.211)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:56.517)

I think we, a lot of cluttery people have a real deep appreciation for vintage. And that’s why it is hard for us to get rid of things. So how do you incorporate your love for vintage into your designs in a way that promotes a healthy clutter -free living space? Because it can be really easy to do too much or keep things just because they were old. But how do you incorporate it into a way,

that it’s not just lovable, but livable.

Hilary Prall (11:30.014)

I will say we don’t have children, so it makes it a lot easier. I think if you have little kids running around, you’re not gonna have all of this stuff. That’s just how it is. We do have three active pets, so I have to be okay if things get broken or whatever. I have a few things even right now that…

Kathi (11:32.997)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (11:38.725)

Right.

Kathi (11:46.437)

Yes.

Hilary Prall (11:53.79)

I know I need to change out just because of how we live and I’m tired of messing with it. I think that’s part of it is if you if it’s constantly bringing you angst or whatever, then reevaluate it. You know, I really try to keep our bedroom very calm, very clutter free. And sometimes it’s just the addition of one extra thing that can just that’s it. I need to I need to clear the decks. So.

Kathi (12:21.957)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (12:23.101)

I think for me, I don’t ever want people to feel like they have to be overly careful. Last week, we have a cleaning lady that comes every couple of weeks and she does a great job considering how much nonsense I have. And so just very absentmindedly, she was here and I was out talking while she was working and I was just going through and fluffing my stuff because I’m also a little OCD.

Kathi (12:28.741)

Hmm.

Kathi (12:32.773)

Yeah.

Kathi (12:37.797)

Hahaha!

Hilary Prall (12:50.076)

And she said, I’m sorry. She said, I can’t ever remember how your stuff goes back. I said, do not worry about that. That’s on me. That is for me to go through and be fidgety about. So I think just manage your expectations. I mean, do you want people to feel comfortable in your house? Then, you know, they have to be able to live with your stuff. Plenty of people. I have an Instagram friend that has the most incredible home.

Kathi (13:10.917)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (13:18.587)

and I was lucky enough to go and visit it and it is museum worthy. But also I think it’d be really hard to add anybody else to that house. So I think it does have to depend on what your, and he would say that, so I think it’s okay. But you have to be okay with whatever your situation is and what it can accommodate, I guess.

Kathi (13:23.365)

Hmm.

Kathi (13:32.357)

Mm -hmm. Yes.

Kathi (13:42.117)

I love that it’s being realistic about how you live so you can be realistic about how you design, how you bring things in and living with what you love. Guys, we’re gonna take a quick break and then when we come back, I wanna talk to Hilary about what advice she would give to somebody that she was helping with designs who struggles with clutter. We’re gonna take a quick break and then we’ll come back with that.

Hilary Prall (13:47.098)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:12.293)

Okay friends, we are back and Hilary knows our cluttery hearts. She knows our cluttery spaces. And so if you were working with a client, what advice would you give to somebody who tends towards clutter? Do you have any really practical ideas or solutions or maybe some inspiration for them?

Hilary Prall (14:27.962)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (14:33.689)

I think honestly the first thing is clear the decks a little bit. Take everything out if you’re redoing a space. If you’re unsure about something, put it in a tub and if you don’t care about it a month from now, three months from now, it can move on. It can find somewhere else to live. I also think same with clothing. If you’re tired of wearing something but you hold on to it because, I might use that, well, when you’re ready to use it,

maybe just go buy something new. Say I over the last three years have lost over 70 pounds. So I don’t need to hold on to those old clothes because I’m gonna buy something new. Life is very, very short. So I don’t think that you need to hold on to every last detail of everything. Keep the sentimental pieces. Part of…

Kathi (15:04.869)

Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (15:11.173)

Wow.

Mm -hmm. Right.

Hilary Prall (15:29.369)

Part of going through my mom’s stuff was I’ve really sifted through. So I’ve, you’ve touched every single thing. And I have an entire closet downstairs plus some overflow of family things that I’ve brought home. My sister needs to come through and go through them. And then the rest of it, I’m gonna pick the things that I really care about and the rest I’m gonna try to reach out to the historical society of where my grandma’s from and, you know, kind of liquidate some stuff that way. But, cause I…

Kathi (15:35.685)

Mmm.

Kathi (15:54.181)

yeah.

Hilary Prall (15:57.816)

They’re important things, but also I don’t need to keep them. So not everything has to be kept. Not everything in my house should be important to my nieces and nephews down the road. You know, it’s just not everything is sentimental.

Kathi (16:03.109)

Right.

Kathi (16:15.845)

Yes, and so I love that thought that yes, this is important history, but my house is not a museum. And, you know, we can take pictures. You’ve given me two ideas that I’ve never really considered auction houses and your grandmother’s local historical society. You know, is this something? Yeah. Tell me more about that.

Hilary Prall (16:38.839)

Yeah, they’re actually, yeah. So they’re, well, and this is just because I grew up going to this. There are a couple of, I think, there are always historical societies. So, I mean, they’re always looking for things. They want to have curated, you know, whatever. There’s a big event that we would go to every year. And I can specifically remember there is a whole little room or house devoted to scary old dolls, which I don’t want.

Kathi (16:47.173)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:07.173)

Mm -hmm, right.

Hilary Prall (17:07.958)

But I have two of my grandmas and I have her little baby buggy and that would be a great thing to give them. And, you know, my grandpa was a farmer down there and I mean, they, they want that stuff. They want ephemera and you know, all the things that for all intents and purposes, I will never really look at again, but I have all of this stuff. So unless I want to display it or really feel like I’m going to look at it again, I just, I don’t need that heaviness. But.

Kathi (17:19.205)

Yes.

Kathi (17:27.557)

Right.

Hilary Prall (17:37.973)

I didn’t want to make a rash decision while I was going through things and just pitch it. Because I did get rid of a few things that I kind of am like, shoot. But also, I’m not gonna let that, yeah.

Kathi (17:40.293)

Yeah.

Kathi (17:47.909)

Mm hmm. Well, that’s gonna happen with the amount of stuff you had to deal with. You’re gonna get you’re gonna get rid of a few things that, you know, maybe but we can’t let that keep us from getting rid of the things that are going to stop us from living. And, you know, when we bought this house, and you don’t know anything about my story, but we bought a house in the middle of the woods, like, and the people we bought it from,

Hilary Prall (17:54.293)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (18:06.196)

No.

Hilary Prall (18:14.58)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (18:17.893)

they left a lot of their stuff here, including an antique water stand that we love and they loved it, but they had no place for it. Their kids had no place for it. And so the agreement we left with was if I ever decide to get rid of it, I call them. And if they don’t want it, then it’s up to me to get rid of it. And I was fine with that. And another thing that they…

Hilary Prall (18:29.236)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (18:36.148)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (18:45.221)

They had this giant list of all these things that they were leaving with us, but one thing they were not leaving was an IKEA table. And we’re like, well, that’s odd. You left all this other stuff. Why are you taking the IKEA table? Come to find out this IKEA table was from the original IKEA in… Yes, it was the IKEA in Europe. And it was bought, I think, either in the 40s or 50s and shipped to the United States.

Hilary Prall (18:54.099)

Hilary Prall (19:04.339)

IKEA.

Hilary Prall (19:11.795)

Okay.

Kathi (19:14.085)

And so that’s a part of their family history. And we love that story so much, and they still sell that brand of table at IKEA. We bought that, we bought the 2019 version of it. And you can still have the story without having the object. And to be able to carry that on is great. When do you know that your passion,

Hilary Prall (19:22.322)

Okay, yeah. that’s awesome.

Hilary Prall (19:29.778)

Yeah, yeah.

Hilary Prall (19:35.09)

Absolutely.

Kathi (19:42.757)

for board games or paint by numbers has gotten out of control. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, guys, she mentioned these in the last episode. But how do you know when it’s enough?

Hilary Prall (19:55.634)

Well, I have stipulations so for the the paint by numbers I don’t want although I just bought one that doesn’t doesn’t align with this but it’s it’s so different that it’s okay, but I Don’t really like people in them. I don’t like eyes So they have to sort of fit my colors and I want them to be pretty well done You know the board games I don’t

Kathi (20:05.577)

We won’t judge you.

Kathi (20:13.125)

Mmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (20:22.417)

I have shelves that I could stack them on, but part of the display is that I’ve hung a lot of them on the wall as display. So I don’t know, is there an end to something? I would say as long as it’s not stressing you out, you’re not putting yourself in financial distress, you can still walk in your house, I suppose it’s okay.

Kathi (20:28.261)

yes.

Kathi (20:41.253)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (20:44.625)

But if you can no longer enjoy your stuff, that is for me genuinely it. I wanna look at it. I wanna look at it. I wanna enjoy it. I love my stuff, but I don’t wanna have to put it in a tote and think about it randomly. So for me, I don’t wanna store stuff. I want it out and about. And as far as like my family stuff, one thing I did wanna say is just because my mom had it or my grandma had it,

Kathi (20:44.805)

Yeah.

Kathi (20:55.461)

Yeah.

Kathi (21:00.677)

Right, right.

Hilary Prall (21:14.096)

I want to collect my own stuff. I have a whole life ahead of me. I very easily from the loss that has happened in my life could easily think, gosh, I don’t have a life left. But I have a lot of years left hopefully and I have a lot of collecting to do. So I want to have room to collect my own things. I don’t want to have to just have my mom’s stuff.

Kathi (21:16.389)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (21:28.997)

Guess.

Kathi (21:38.021)

I love that. And you said you want to enjoy your stuff, but you also want to enjoy your space. And I think that’s the perfect balance for what we’re talking about. To be able to enjoy your stuff and be able to put your, enjoy your space and to have some guidelines. I love your guidelines for your paint by numbers. It can’t have people, it can’t have I, and you said, but that you said there was an exception to that that you just bought.

Hilary Prall (21:44.431)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (21:48.399)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:54.639)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:59.759)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (22:03.695)

Yeah.

Kathi (22:04.709)

but you must have loved it so much that you were willing to break your own rule. And I think that’s the reason we have rules and guidelines to keep us kind of contained. But then we know when something is outside of that and that’s really special. Hilary, you’ve given us so much to think about. Where would you like people most to seek you out? Is it through your website, through Instagram? Where should people go find you?

Hilary Prall (22:09.295)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:14.415)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (22:29.807)

Instagram first, I hang out there a lot. I’m in stories a lot there, that’s what I love. I love to be able to connect with people that way. So I would say definitely Instagram. From there you can find me anywhere, but also if they go to my website, I have a pop -up to join my email list. I email once a week. I really try to share something there that I’m not sharing anywhere else, so it’s definitely bonus material, bonus content. And…

Kathi (22:33.797)

Yeah. Okay.

Kathi (22:42.181)

Okay.

Kathi (22:51.973)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:58.766)

Yeah, I just really, as I have walked through this, the people who have reached out to me saying, I had to go through this, I’m going through this, I’m going to have to go through this, you know, and I think just the self -realization that we can all kind of struggle with it. I’ve had a few messages that were kind of rude, you know, saying this is a mental illness, you know, but I understand. I 100 % understand and I watched my mom struggle with it.

Kathi (23:10.757)

Yeah.

Kathi (23:23.589)

Yeah. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (23:27.629)

overtly for 20 years. You know, so I would be the last person to judge anybody about it, but it would be wonderful if people could seek the help that they, that I’m assuming is out there. I know people specialize in it, but also, you know, if you’re going through it with a family member, I know that, you know, it genuinely is like drugs or alcohol. I mean, I would try to explain that to my husband. It was really hard for him to understand it.

Kathi (23:29.893)

Yeah.

Kathi (23:40.133)

Right.

Kathi (23:50.149)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (23:54.349)

And you know, I know people sometimes do have to just walk away from a situation. Luckily, I didn’t have to do that with my mom, but you have to have some boundaries and anyway, so.

Kathi (24:01.445)

Yeah.

100 % yeah, you know, lots of times with hoarders, they want you to hold on to their stuff. They want you to be a part of it. And just because one person suffers from hoarding doesn’t mean there aren’t other sufferers surrounding them. And, you know, can we acknowledge both as victims? I think that that’s a really important thing that you’re saying here. There’s more than one victim.

Hilary Prall (24:22.123)

Yes, absolutely.

Hilary Prall (24:30.123)

Absolutely.

Kathi (24:33.701)

Hilary, I love the compassion you have for your mom while also speaking the truth. Guys, she’s got tears in her eyes and as the fellow daughter of a hoarder, I feel those tears. I’m further removed than she is. She’s in the thick of it right now. So I wanna say an extra thank you for being here and sharing your story with us. Thank you so much. Okay.

Hilary Prall (24:58.475)

Absolutely, yeah. Thanks.

Kathi (25:01.637)

Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutterfree Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#671 – Sentimental Clutter: Finding Freedom in Letting Go

Kathi Lipp returns with Tonya Kubo and Tenneil Register to address a common challenge faced by those on the clutter-free journey: sentimental items. In this insightful episode, the trio tackles the emotional weight of inherited belongings and the guilt that often...

#670 – Emotional Decluttering: A Journey Through Sentimental Keepsakes

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by clutter experts Tonya Kubo and Tenneil Register for the second part of their heartfelt discussion on sentimental items. Discover the emotions that often lead us to hold onto things we neither love nor...

#669 – From Macaroni Necklaces to Masterpieces: A Guide to Decluttering and Organizing Kid Memorabilia

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp teams up with decluttering experts Tonya Kubo and Tenille Register to tackle one of the toughest challenges for parents—letting go of kids' sentimental items. Whether it’s a macaroni necklace or a monumental art...

www.instagram.com/hilaryprall

#628 How to Curate Your Life: The Way to Love Things Without Drowning in Them

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 30, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

628 How to Curate Your Life:

The Way to Love Things Without Drowning in Them

Hey there, friends! Have you ever struggled with finding the balance between loving vintage and clutter?

In this enlightening episode of Clutter Free Academy, host Kathi Lipp welcomes designer and content creator Hilary Prall. Kathi and Hilary explore the challenges of breaking free from generational clutter habits and finding a balance between loving vintage items and maintaining an organized home. As the daughter of a hoarder, Hilary offers valuable insights on curating spaces, letting go of sentimental items, and developing strategies to resist hoarding tendencies.

Listeners will discover:

How to set clear goals
How to understand personal limits when it comes to collecting
The importance of displaying and enjoying items rather than storing them away

This episode offers a unique perspective on the intersection of design, organization, and personal growth, making it a must-listen for anyone struggling with clutter or seeking to create a more intentional living space.

Click here to be notified when Part 2 of this interview with Hilary Prall is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.hilaryprall.com

www.hilaryprall.com/blog

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

How do you balance your love for vintage items with maintaining a clutter-free space?

Share in the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

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Meet Our Guest

Hilary Prall

Hilary Prall is the creative mind behind Hilary Prall Blog, an online destination for vibrant, eclectic interior design. Hilary’s passion is creating unique, beautiful spaces that work for real-life budgets. Through her website and digital channels, she shares her colorful home design, DIY ideas, and a penchant for repurposing thrifted items with inspo-seekers all over.

Hilary’s design brightens the feeds of almost 40k fans on Instagram and Facebook. She has been featured regularly on Des Moines NBC affiliate WHO-TV, home retailer blogs, and several online magazines. She offers an array of affordable digital products that provide design help with the click of a mouse.

Before starting Hilary Prall Blog in 2015, Hilary spent years at a job that wasn’t her true calling. That experience, though, is what drives her enthusiasm for encouraging others to pursue their dreams and supporting other entrepreneurs.

A life that blends work, creative interests, and family provides ongoing inspiration as Hilary and husband Jason (with support from Cooper the corgi and Sheldon + Howard the cats) turn the transformation of their builder-grade ranch home into endless sources of design ideas. When she’s not tinkering at home, the next best bets are thrifting, road-tripping, trying a locally-owned restaurant, or enjoying the outdoors.

Visit her at www.hilaryprall.com.

Transcript

Kathi (00:01.669)

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our heart is to help you live with less clutter and more life. And today, I think this is gonna be a turning point episode for some of you. If you live with a hoarder,

If you grew up with a hoarder, if you have a hoarder in your extended family, today’s episode is for you. As many of you know, I grew up with a hoarder. Tanya, who is our most frequent co -host on here, also grew up with a hoarder. And I’ve got a new friend, guys. This is Hilary Prall. She is the creative mind behind Hilary Prall Vlog. It’s an online play. By the way, the website is gorgeous.

She had it’s it’s a vibrant like eclectic vibe I don’t even know how else to put it and if you guys are not seeing if you’re if you’re not watching this you’re just hearing this if You could just see Hillary’s background, you’d know what I was talking about, but we’re gonna put all the links in there She has featured regularly on the Des Moines NBC affiliate who TV She she’s all over the place on home retail block. So like I

Guys, she’s a designer. She’s got incredible style, but she has this part of her story that we’re going to dive deep into today. Hillary, welcome to the podcast.

Hilary Prall (01:38.988)

Hello, thank you for having me.

Kathi (01:41.125)

Well, I’m so excited because to Neil who is on my team introduced us and she she’s like you have to have Hillary on your podcast and I said say less and then I started to dig into what you’re all about. So tell us tell us what you’re about your day job. Let’s just start there. What’s your day job?

Hilary Prall (01:58.603)

Okay, yeah. My day job is basically content creation, digital content creation. And I feel like sort of part of where I am with my business ties into what we’ll talk about today with my mom, Justin. Things have sort of come to a little bit of a stall over the last couple of years working through things with my mom’s estate. But looking really forward to getting back on track of…

creating content and building a brand of business. I started out, I worked in retail for 20 years and I loved that, but it was nothing that I intended to do for so long. And I got started working with real estate agents and just local people doing some decorating and staging. Finally left my nine to five and pursued that full time.

Kathi (02:34.341)

you

Kathi (02:38.565)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (02:53.386)

as well as creating content online. And a couple of years ago, I thought, I can’t do both of these things to their fullest capacity. That’s not my personality. Like we talked about to Neil being able to do all the things. I am not able to do all the things. So I sort of pulled back from the decorating end and I could always go back to that. Not that I think that I will, but I wanted to see if I could harness what the internet had to offer for creating content, encouraging people.

Kathi (02:59.621)

Right?

Kathi (03:06.437)

Hehehe.

Kathi (03:19.589)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (03:22.569)

inspiring them. That’s truly what I enjoy doing. I think we all have so many shared experiences that it’s hard to connect sometimes with the right people and find people who are like us, who share our stories. And so that is a big part of what I do in my space. I am very real. I do share all the good things and all the bad things. So.

Kathi (03:36.164)

Yeah.

Kathi (03:46.757)

Yeah, I started following her on Instagram and she’s a good follow you guys. She really is very down to earth and realistic but also inspirational which is kind of a hard line to walk but this is why I really wanted to talk to you was because I think you have the life that many of us who feel like we’re drowning in clutter. Your life online, while it looks real, it also looks beautiful.

Hilary Prall (03:51.049)

Hehehe.

Kathi (04:16.549)

And I think that’s what we want, but so many of us have the story of either we were raised by a hoarder or maybe we have those tendencies ourselves and we just feel like there is no hope for us. And when I heard about your journey with your mom, I wanted to dig a little deeper. So your mom would be considered a hoarder?

Hilary Prall (04:41.256)

Yes, I think for all intents and purposes she would. I mean, it’s not, I don’t know the legal definition of what a hoarder is. So some, she, I would say she always had the tendency. She grew up in a family that she never felt like they had anything nice. You know, her parents were raised during the depression. So, you know, you definitely may do and there’s nothing wrong with that. But along with that came some really,

Kathi (04:46.053)

Right.

Kathi (04:54.437)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:02.629)

Yeah.

Right.

Hilary Prall (05:09.671)

tough things as well. And I know that even people from that generation took that and just ran with it to the nth degree. So I think, I think, you know, even early in my parents’ marriage, they didn’t have the finances probably that she would have wanted. And so she couldn’t buy everything that she wanted. And my dad helped her to keep that in check to some degree. But when he passed away in 2004, it was just like, it,

Kathi (05:30.245)

Right?

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (05:39.622)

I just felt like it just happened instantly, but it definitely had different waves of how it happened. It looked like her going to Target and shopping the clearance end caps and then, you know, whatever was on clearance, it was always, it wasn’t having something nice. It wasn’t like she went and bought one diamond ring. It was, you know, a hundred junky things.

Kathi (05:52.005)

Right.

Kathi (06:04.933)

Right.

Hilary Prall (06:05.829)

it was just to fill that void. She got really into home shopping network. I think just finding that connection with somebody. And then she got into thrifting, which we had grown up going to garage sales, but we didn’t really go to the thrift store. That wasn’t something that was like normal to us, but she really got into that Facebook marketplace, you know, whatever it was, wherever she could get a deal and she would drag stuff home. So,

Kathi (06:10.245)

Hmm.

Kathi (06:17.701)

wow.

Kathi (06:22.341)

Yeah.

Kathi (06:31.429)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (06:34.949)

The first sort of round of it was she ended up selling our childhood home to my sister and my brother -in -law on contract. So she had to clear out to move and then she moved into a townhouse and…

Part of, she filled it, obviously. But also during that time she was doing a lot of hiding. So she had a couple of relationships that she wasn’t totally honest with us about and was just really in hiding. I can count on two hands the number of times I was in that house. And every time I went there it was fuller and fuller and…

Kathi (06:55.493)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:05.637)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (07:12.261)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (07:18.34)

you know, there would be things like my wanted my childhood bedroom set and she couldn’t let go of that. That was hers. And just, I mean, she so I mean, it definitely was. I think that is a part of being a hoarder is everything is yours. You’re just gripping onto it so tightly. So she she quite filled that house and it was just a really big source of contention. From there, she did meet someone and.

Kathi (07:25.765)

Hmm.

Kathi (07:31.813)

Yeah. Right.

Hilary Prall (07:46.883)

was getting remarried in 2013 and we’re very happy and we were very honest with him. This is, you’re getting yourself into something here, but I don’t think you couldn’t, unless you’ve seen it or been involved in it, you can’t wrap your head around it. So we were able to get her moved from that house finally. She kept the house even after she got married for a couple of years, but then it was like, this is silly.

Kathi (07:55.557)

Right.

Kathi (08:00.261)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (08:13.125)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (08:13.155)

But that meant she filled two storage units. She filled his giant Morton building. She, you know, started filling his basement and then just continued. So it was a big issue within their marriage as well.

Kathi (08:27.877)

So first of all, it is just so heartbreaking because hoarders and it does, I mean, again, I’m not a clinical psychologist, but it does sound like she has the classic symptoms of hoarding. Mom, why are you keeping this? And there’s not really a good explanation, but to take it from her would be devastating.

Hilary Prall (08:41.953)

absolutely.

Hilary Prall (08:53.633)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (08:53.989)

and the buying things that they don’t need and the hiding and the anger at anybody trying to change anything or judge anything. And so it does sound like she has some of the classic hallmarks of hoarding. And there’s not a lot that family can do. There just isn’t. So part of my question is,

Hilary Prall (09:18.177)

No.

Kathi (09:23.877)

Why do you think that you did not go in the same direction? Why do you think or did you did you like part of my story is my dad was a hoarder and I started to hang on to too much stuff. And then I got to a point where it’s like, no, I can’t live like this. I can’t be, you know, for me, it was clutter. It wasn’t hoarding, but I could definitely see the tendencies in my life. So where did you fall on that scale?

Hilary Prall (09:28.992)

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (09:37.248)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (09:51.072)

Sure, I mean I definitely have the tendencies. I mean, you know, and I love vintage, I love old things. So it’s been difficult going through my mom’s stuff because she kept, my grandma came out of, you know, the Victorian era where you did literally keep everything, you know, and then she was in the depression. And so she kept not only like sentimental things but,

Kathi (09:54.565)

Yeah.

Kathi (09:58.245)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:09.829)

Right.

Hilary Prall (10:19.935)

useful things. And so when she passed away, my mom, her siblings came and they took, you know, the few things that they wanted. And then literally, I think she hauled everything else home. So in having to go through all of my mom’s stuff, you know, there’s also a lot of family stuff and it’s hard to, it’s hard to decide because I love old things. It’s not just that it was family stuff, but it’s old stuff. So I feel like it has meaning. Like I don’t want to just see it.

Kathi (10:21.143)

Right.

Kathi (10:45.765)

Right.

Hilary Prall (10:49.151)

go in a dumpster somewhere or whatever. I think the difference comes in that because I’ve had to deal with this, a lot of things have lost sentimentality. Definitely for my sister. She couldn’t care less about most things. I go through seasons. I’ve been taking things to auction myself. So part of how my business started was buying and reselling vintage. So it’s definitely in my

Kathi (10:59.045)

Mmm.

Kathi (11:03.781)

Yeah.

Kathi (11:16.325)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (11:18.974)

in my DNA and I would say anybody who buys and sells vintage, it’s a really hard thing to stop. So it just is and you have to, there’s nothing wrong with it, but when it starts to cause you stress is when, that’s when it bothers my husband. Okay, it’s stressing you out, you’re causing yourself stress.

Kathi (11:20.293)

Right.

Kathi (11:26.373)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kathi (11:37.125)

Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (11:42.558)

I have one room in our basement left that I’m working through, but I like to think that I don’t cling to things like she did. I’m willing to get rid of them. I try to give things to people who would enjoy them. I can see that it’s just stuff. So…

Kathi (11:50.949)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:00.681)

So we’re gonna take a quick break and when we come back I want to know how did you get to that point of knowing I love I really you know, I enjoy this I can appreciate it I may even love it, but I can’t keep everything so I would love to hear some of your thought process behind that and how you got to that point in your journey because as a designer as a decorator I

I bet you could imagine a use for almost anything and I would love to hear how you’re able to curate what you’re deciding to keep and what you’re giving away. So we will take a quick break and come right back.

Hey guys, we are back with Hilary Prall, who is a designer, a decorator, an online content creator, influencer, and daughter of a hoarder. And so we were just discussing, Hilary, how are you able to keep from keeping all the things?

Hilary Prall (13:06.587)

Number one, I try to keep what my goals are in mind. We have a goal of moving from our house eventually and moving to a town that we really love. And so the thought of having to move all of this stuff, we moved from a house that was half the size of our house now when we bought this house in 2018. And at that time I got rid of a lot of stuff. I collected…

Kathi (13:12.901)

Hmm.

Kathi (13:23.397)

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (13:35.355)

vintage Pyrex and I had so much you couldn’t imagine it. But I got rid of a lot because I thought I’m gonna have nowhere to put it and I don’t want to move it. So I do have that goal of eventually you know us downsizing. I don’t want to take care of a big house. It’s just the two of us and I just don’t want that to fill my mind and my space. I have gotten better in creating content. I do

Kathi (13:51.269)

Yeah.

Hilary Prall (14:04.346)

some DIYs and things like that. So I would accumulate things at the thrift store that I think, this would be a good project or whatever. I can go to the thrift store any day of the week and find a project to do. So I’ve tried to keep that in mind that I don’t need to keep a stash of, unless it’s something really unique and cool, I don’t need to have a stash of things like that. I’m constantly getting rid of. So I think that’s important. That is, it’s an ever evolving door here, whether I’m giving it to friends or,

Kathi (14:14.853)

Hmm.

Kathi (14:21.573)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Hilary Prall (14:34.298)

giving it to the thrift store, selling it, whatever that looks like. I do think you have to get over the part that you spent money on it. You can nickel and dime yourself to death. If it’s a really something that’s valuable, sell it. I have discovered it’s really easy to take stuff to our local auction house. So I can set up an appointment and just take the load and then they, whatever’s left, they liquidate. I don’t have to worry about it.

Kathi (14:42.245)

Yes, yes.

Hilary Prall (15:03.577)

So for me, that has become the best option for getting rid of a lot of stuff that to me has value. It’s not just garbage.

Kathi (15:10.949)

I think it’s great that you have found your path of least resistance and for you it’s the auction house and I think we all need to figure that out. Is it straight donation? Is it selling it on Facebook or Marketplace? What is it for you? And get really good at that and rinse and repeat, absolutely.

Hilary Prall (15:20.097)

Yeah. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (15:33.98)

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s, you know, I understand the guilt is there. So, okay, what does that do for you? You know, I mean, learn from it is all you can do. You know, maybe set a financial goal of something else that you would really enjoy and then, you know, sell your stuff or don’t buy new stuff.

Kathi (15:44.613)

Right, yes.

Hilary Prall (15:56.248)

Unfortunately, I probably would make a lot of environmentalists cry because I’m not doing a lot of recycling or you know, whatever. It just has to go. I think if you get that into your head, get rid of it. Just get rid of it. Don’t, you know, you’re not saving the planet in this one in this one moment. So I don’t, you know, one thing that my mom had was she would save. She had tons of medical.

Kathi (16:03.205)

Yeah.

Kathi (16:17.157)

Right.

Hilary Prall (16:24.599)

stuff that would come, whether it was a bill or insurance or whatever, and they always have that blank sheet of paper on the front of the back, and she would save it as scratch paper. She had more scratch paper than any one person could ever use, and so going through her stuff, I was like, gosh, I’m just gonna throw away all this scratch paper. It’s like, yes, just get rid of it, burn it, whatever.

Kathi (16:25.957)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (16:36.933)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (16:44.045)

Yeah. You know, I think, and I really do believe this is true, the best way for us to make an environmental impact is to choose who we’re buying from and what we’re buying. And instead of on the back end, once we already have the stuff and having to make those decisions. And we recycle, we bring out a big tub of recycling every single.

Hilary Prall (17:00.85)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:12.805)

But our community is set up for it and not all communities are. And so do what you can, but really if your biggest concern is the environment, it’s the not purchasing in the first place.

Hilary Prall (17:16.47)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (17:27.765)

Absolutely, and I would I would go a little bit further and say, you know, there’s even a new trend to like

I would say almost glamorize the reusable or the whatever. And so it’s almost like there’s an encouragement to like, okay, I have this bottle, but here’s this other bottle that’s really biodegradable and whatever. So you better throw away this bottle and go buy the other bottle. No, that’s no, you know, so then, but probably what would happen is you’d end up with like five of the bottles or whatever.

Kathi (17:42.501)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:52.197)

Right.

Kathi (17:56.549)

Yeah, it makes no sense.

Hilary Prall (18:05.396)

One thing my husband and I have done is just tried to focus on buying the best of whatever we’re buying. Buy at your top dollar. So hopefully it lasts and hopefully you’re just getting what you want. I think a big part of how hoarding can come about is that you feel like you’re never actually getting what you want. It’s the same with food addiction or whatever. You’re just not feeling fulfilled in it. So.

Kathi (18:11.045)

Mm. Right.

Yes.

Kathi (18:26.533)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, yeah. Right. Because that target clearance purchase fills a need in the moment, but it doesn’t fill a long -term need. It fills that high of buying something. And by the way, I totally resonate with that high of buying something. But for me, it could be the high of buying a Costco chicken. Like, there, I…

Hilary Prall (18:40.468)

Mm -hmm. nope.

Kathi (18:58.213)

To me, it’s the same thing. And it’s like, okay, but also I’m learning to say, you know what, there’s also a thrill in using what I have. There’s also a thrill in feeling like I’m being wise and clever and smart with what I actually have. So how do you, what’s the thing that you say to yourself when you are purchasing something or when you’re considering purchasing something?

How what you know from vintage items to maybe you know craft supply whatever that is Do you have like? This is why i’m buying it. Do you have questions you ask yourself? Do you have something? What’s that thought process so that you are not acquiring and by the way? I love what you said about keeping the end goal in mind If the end goal is to move if the end goal is to enjoy your house

Hilary Prall (19:50.994)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (19:57.17)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (19:57.477)

and not feel overstuffed. If your end goal is to save up for a vacation, those end goals do not align with buying the clearance stuff at Target 99 % of the time. So I love that. So I would love to know, how do you keep that end goal in mind? What do you say to yourself when you’re considering a purchase?

Hilary Prall (20:10.641)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (20:19.249)

Well, I need to do better about it. I feel like I go in shifts. So one thing that I try…

Kathi (20:22.021)

We all do.

Hilary Prall (20:30.129)

I’ll phrase it this way. One thing that I do try to do is I am a very out of sight, out of mind person. So that means if my stuff isn’t out on display for me to enjoy, I don’t even care about it. So I think that is a little bit different than hoarders because they can pinpoint exactly where everything is and they’re very still concerned with it.

Kathi (20:47.205)

Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Hilary Prall (20:54.192)

That doesn’t mean I don’t have stuff still in my house that I’m not using or enjoying, but that’s out of laziness or whatever. But I try to keep that in focus. If I’m not using certain things, they can go by the wayside. So as I bring things in, can I take something out that is similar or that I’m not loving anymore? You know, I have a basement that I love very different styles of vintage. So our basement is like,

Kathi (21:14.853)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (21:24.016)

bright and colorful and has vintage board games and things like that. I’ve reached my capacity of vintage board games, I think, unless there’s just something that’s outstanding. So I think knowing, I mean, where’s the end? What’s your end? What’s the limit? Because I know that I want to be able to display these things. It’s not that I want to put them in a room for a later date.

Kathi (21:32.773)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (21:40.389)

Right.

Hilary Prall (21:49.807)

I have an entire wall filled with vintage paint by numbers. I don’t have any more room for paint by numbers. So unless one is just fabulous, there’s no reason for me to bring that home. So curation, I have a lot of stuff, but I think for the most part, I know when things are getting out of hand because stuff starts to feel wonky or off kilter or too crowded.

Kathi (22:01.605)

Mmm. I love that. It’s curation. Yeah.

Hilary Prall (22:17.871)

I think for the most part I still have visual space around everything. A lot of stacks and things like that, but I also know that I really don’t hold tightly to anything. If someone came in and said, Hillary, you need to sell all this stuff, great, that’s totally fine. But I know that telling that to my mom, that wouldn’t have mattered. Yeah.

Kathi (22:17.925)

Mm.

Kathi (22:22.213)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (22:42.725)

No, it would have been a very different thing. I love where you have come from in your journey to this because I think that one of the things that us cluttery people know, I think this is a really good sign of health, that we can be extremists sometimes. Either I’m a hoarder or a minimalist. And I think that there is a happy place. As a cluttery person, I enjoy stuff.

Hilary Prall (23:06.094)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:12.709)

I really do, but I also know that too much stuff will really weigh me down. So there’s a sweet spot and it sounds like in your business, in your personal kind of thinking around stuff, you have found that sweet spot of I’m not a hoarder, I’m not a minimalist, I’m Hillary, I have found.

Hilary Prall (23:12.878)

Mm -hmm.

Hilary Prall (23:40.589)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:41.765)

what works for me and I can feel when I want something new in my house, I can also feel when there’s too much in my house and to let that guide you. I think that that’s really, really amazing. Hillary, this has been such a great conversation. I would love to bring you back and talk a little bit more about as somebody who understands clutter, as somebody who has lived with a hoarder and doesn’t want to be on that end of it,

but also somebody who makes their living by creating spaces that they really, really love and other people love. How do we find that intersection? So if you’d be willing to come back, I would love to have that discussion with you. Okay, guys, I’m gonna put all of Hillary’s links and where to find her. Guys, go follow her on Instagram. She, just looking at her board, you’re…

Hilary Prall (24:25.259)

Absolutely.

Kathi (24:40.741)

You’re gonna be inspired, you’re gonna be encouraged, and you’re gonna know she’s one of us, so it’s okay. That she is not judging you for not having all of it together because we’re all works in progress. You guys have been listening to Clutter -Free Academy, I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter -free life you’ve always wanted to.

#671 – Sentimental Clutter: Finding Freedom in Letting Go

Kathi Lipp returns with Tonya Kubo and Tenneil Register to address a common challenge faced by those on the clutter-free journey: sentimental items. In this insightful episode, the trio tackles the emotional weight of inherited belongings and the guilt that often...

#670 – Emotional Decluttering: A Journey Through Sentimental Keepsakes

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by clutter experts Tonya Kubo and Tenneil Register for the second part of their heartfelt discussion on sentimental items. Discover the emotions that often lead us to hold onto things we neither love nor...

#669 – From Macaroni Necklaces to Masterpieces: A Guide to Decluttering and Organizing Kid Memorabilia

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp teams up with decluttering experts Tonya Kubo and Tenille Register to tackle one of the toughest challenges for parents—letting go of kids' sentimental items. Whether it’s a macaroni necklace or a monumental art...

www.facebook.com/donnajonesspeak

#627 Creating a Win-Win Approach to Decluttering Conflicts in Your Home

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 23, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

627 Creating a Win-Win Approach to Decluttering Conflicts in Your Home

Are you tired of the constant battles over stuff in your home?

Well, buckle up, because in this episode, we’re diving deep into the world of decluttering conflicts. In this episode of Clutter-Free Academy, host Kathi Lipp welcomes guest Donna Jones, author of “Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life” and podcast host of “That’s Just What I Needed.” The discussion centers around the intersection of decluttering and conflict resolution within relationships. You’ll be encouraged to approach decluttering conflicts with empathy, clear communication, and a focus on mutual solutions.

Listeners will discover:

How possessions often become a source of conflict, especially between generations
How to start difficult conversations about possessions and space in a healthy way
The importance of finding win-win solutions in conflicts over clutter

Throughout the episode, Kathi and Donna emphasize that while conflict can’t be avoided, it can be handled in healthy ways that lead to more peaceful lives and homes.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.donnajones.org

Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life by Donna Jones

www.instagram.com/donnaajones

Find Donna Jones’s “That’s Just What I Needed Podcast” on Apple, Spotify, or here.

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

How does emotional attachment to possessions contribute to conflicts in your relationships?

Share in the comments!

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Meet Our Guest

Donna Jones

Donna is a national speaker, author, host of the “That’s Just What I Needed” podcast and self-described Bible explainer who loves her God, her family, a strong cup of coffee and really cute shoes. Her latest book is Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life. Visit her at www.donnajones.org.

Transcript

Well, hey, friends, welcome to Clutter -Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life.

And guys, I’ve got a new friend to introduce us to. I was just on her podcast. We had a blast and I knew when I heard the title of her new book, she needed to come be with our clutter free people. This is Donna Jones. She is a national speaker. She’s the podcast host of That’s Just What I Needed. And she is the author of Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life. Donna, welcome to the podcast.

Donna Jones (00:52.494)

thank you so much for having me, Kathi. This is fun.

Kathi (00:56.839)

Well, you know, it’s so interesting because I was just talking with my pastor the other day and we were talking about different stages in life and what I was telling him was for my listeners over 50, probably one of the most frequent questions I have is how do I pass this stuff on down to my kids?

And probably the most frequent question I get from people under the age of 40 is, how do I tell my parents I don’t want their stuff? And…

Donna Jones (01:30.318)

areas.

Kathi (01:31.335)

That is a situation that is ripe for conflict It’s so funny because I just had this conversation with my mom the other day We are going there and we’re sifting through some of her stuff and she said do you want to contact Kimberly? Who’s my daughter or do you want me to to ask her if she wants your wedding album and Let’s just be clear. This is the wedding album from me and her father not my current husband

because I am remarried. I’m like, mom, she doesn’t want it. And she goes, well, how do you know? And I said, because she doesn’t want anything. And she really doesn’t want the album. And by the way, I’ve asked her if she wanted any of the pictures. She’s like, no, I’m good. I would rather remember you guys separately than together. I’m like, fair enough. I agree with that. But there is so much drama over stuff. And.

Donna Jones (02:01.038)

No.

Donna Jones (02:27.502)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Kathi (02:30.343)

There are just, there’s so many scenarios where I believe you should want this stuff. And if you don’t want this stuff, what does that say about our relationship? Or you’re giving away the item that I gave you and what does that say about you and me? Or my kids thinking I should be able to hang on to their stuff for eternity. And there’s so much conflict.

over this stuff that is in our lives? And why do you think that possessions are such a hot topic? Or do you? Maybe you don’t agree with that.

Donna Jones (03:07.406)

no one. Yeah, no, no, no, I actually do. Well, to be honest with you, Kathi, almost anything can become a fair game for conflict. And so possessions fall into that category. And you know, it’s funny knowing I was going to come on your podcast, knowing that you’re clutter fleet, clutter free community here. I thought when we are embroiled in conflict, it clutters our mind.

Kathi (03:16.847)

Right.

Donna Jones (03:33.934)

It clutters our soul. I mean, the last thing we’re feeling is peaceful because we are replaying the conflict over and over and over. You know, we’re thinking about what he said, what she said, what we said, what we wish we said. You know, we’re going around, we’re talking about with our husband, with our girlfriend, with our mother. It’s just so consuming. Our brain is cluttered when we don’t know how to handle conflict well.

Kathi (03:34.311)

Yes. Yes.

Kathi (03:39.289)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (03:48.391)

Yes.

Kathi (03:55.815)

Yes.

Donna Jones (04:01.934)

So it’s just so, it’s so important.

Kathi (04:02.215)

100 % yes. I think of clutter as encumberment and conflict can often feel like encumberment but the commonality between stuff and conflict is both are necessary to a certain extent, aren’t they?

Donna Jones (04:08.192)

Yeah, I think perfect. Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (04:23.438)

Yes, yes. Okay, you’re exactly right because we have to have stuff, right, to live. And conflict is, if I could have written a book that was how to get rid of conflict from now into eternity, that’s time me up, right? But that’s not feasible. So thus, healthy conflict, peaceful life. We need to know how to deal with conflict in a healthy way, just like we need to know how to handle possessions.

Kathi (04:29.991)

Yes, right.

Kathi (04:37.671)

Girl, sign me up. Right.

Kathi (04:46.823)

Yes.

Donna Jones (04:52.782)

in a healthy way. And so we use our possessions, we don’t let our possessions use us. In the same way we use our conflict to work for us, we don’t let our conflict work against us, which is frankly what too many of us do. Because we just don’t know how, how do I handle this conflict? So to your point about the stuff and that people over 50,

Kathi (04:53.159)

Mmm, yes.

Kathi (05:13.959)

Yeah.

Donna Jones (05:19.342)

you know, how do I pass this down and the people under 50, how do I tell my parents I don’t want it? That goes to the way we view things. And Kathi, one of the things that I like to say that I really think is true is the way we view things determines the way we do things.

Kathi (05:28.551)

you

Kathi (05:38.823)

Okay, so unpack that for me.

Donna Jones (05:40.718)

Okay, so let me, I’m going to relate that to possessions first, then I’m going to relate that to conflict. So, because I know your audience is all about the possessions, the clutter. So the way you view a certain item, like let’s just go back to your mother and your wedding album. In her mind, she’s viewing it that way. That was a special moment. That was a milestone. So the way she viewed it is going to determine what she does with that. So how you view things determines how you do things.

Kathi (05:45.991)

Okay.

Kathi (05:51.207)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:57.671)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:02.055)

Right.

Kathi (06:09.271)

Yeah. Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (06:10.67)

right? Your daughter views that as like, that’s just a reminder of what I don’t want to remember. So then that determines what she does with it, right? So if we can understand in terms of conflict, that one of the reasons we have conflict is because we’re viewing things a little bit differently. And we tend to assume that people just view things the way we view things.

Kathi (06:16.711)

Right.

Yes. Mmm, yes.

Kathi (06:33.927)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (06:39.982)

that this particular possession is as important to me as it is to you. And that’s not always the case. Or the fact that the house is neat is as important to me as is important to you. Or the fact that there’s a lot of clutter that’s no big deal, it goes on and on and on and on and on, right? So, which is why we have conflict with our kids over a messy room. What we define as we view it is, we tell our teenager, clean up your room.

Kathi (06:40.071)

Right.

Kathi (06:46.279)

Yes.

Kathi (06:53.223)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:57.447)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (07:03.912)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (07:10.382)

And we walk in and we’re like, are you kidding me? Like, okay, yeah, they pulled up their duvet and it’s not on the floor anymore, but the trash is still overflowing in there. There’s water bottles sitting around on the counter or whatever. And we’re like, this is not clean to me. So because the way we view things is you determining the way we do things and they’re viewing it differently. So.

Kathi (07:14.247)

Right.

Kathi (07:20.359)

Mm -hmm Right

Kathi (07:34.567)

Right.

Donna Jones (07:39.982)

You gotta talk about the way you view things.

Kathi (07:42.535)

Yeah, so let’s talk about this in the area of people you actually live with. So for me, that’s my husband. And now part -time, we live with my mom because we’re helping her deal with some stuff. And so how do you deal with the fact that there’s an emotional attachment? Or in Clutterfree, we talk about fear, guilt, and shame. Fear.

but what if I need that item someday? Guilt, so -and -so gave it to me, so I need to keep it for the rest of my life, and shame, I spent so much money on it, and if I give it away or throw it away, it just means I’m a wasteful person. And so we have these hangups, but our roommate, whomever that is, a spouse, a child, a parent, an actual roommate that you’re,

Living in the same space with doesn’t have that same emotional attachment to it How do you come to a place where you can discuss that? Maybe there’s some conflict or you know, is there a way to avoid the conflict when you’re discussing it or how do you get to the other side?

Donna Jones (08:45.582)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (09:00.238)

Yeah, that’s such a good question. And first of all, your listeners are ahead of the game because they know the three root causes. So they can assess themselves, okay, why is this important to me? But because they know the three root causes, they also have insight into what’s going on in the brain of the other person. So they can go, you know, and you don’t even have to say this to the other person. I wonder if that’s fear. I wonder if that’s shame. I wonder, you know, you can kind of, which is helps you.

Kathi (09:05.927)

Mmm.

Yes.

Kathi (09:13.191)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (09:19.559)

Yes.

Kathi (09:25.607)

Mm, right.

Donna Jones (09:29.966)

understand and understanding is one of the biggest keys to being able to resolve conflict when you understand another person’s perspective. So your listeners are already, you know, three steps ahead of most people. You do, you do. So I would say as you know, as you are, let’s say, trying to declutter some things, really talk about it.

Kathi (09:33.959)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (09:41.191)

We’ve got some smarties. We really do. Yes.

Donna Jones (09:57.326)

and just talk about, hey, what do you think about this? One of the things that, it’s even on my website, actually, Kathi, because I get this question so often, how do you start a hard conversation in a healthy way? And so sometimes when you’re working through clutter, you’re working through stuff, you’re working through, you almost wanna avoid it because you think, I don’t want this to be a big blow up, right?

Kathi (10:10.695)

Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (10:26.215)

Right.

Donna Jones (10:27.118)

So you need to know, okay, how do I even start this so that this conversation goes well, so the other person doesn’t get defensive, I still feel heard, and it doesn’t become a big conflict. So one of the things that I like to say is so helpful is that you start with a question. So most of us tend to start with our perspective, right?

Kathi (10:37.959)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Kathi (10:56.199)

Right, okay?

Donna Jones (10:56.878)

However, if you start with a question and you let the other person go first, then you find information about the way the person is thinking, feeling, you know, processing that you wouldn’t know otherwise. And it helps you know what to say next. Because now you’ve got this piece of information about this person and their perspective that you didn’t have before. And then number two, when they go first,

Kathi (11:03.783)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:24.487)

Right.

Donna Jones (11:26.99)

they feel like you’re automatically on their side and the defenses go down. So it’s a win -win. So you might say some, you know, let’s just say you’re cleaning out the garage with your spouse and you hold up some item that you think, I cannot believe that my husband still has this ridiculous hobby thing that he hasn’t done in 15 years, right? And…

Kathi (11:30.439)

Hmm, okay.

Kathi (11:37.255)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (11:46.959)

Right.

Kathi (11:53.031)

Right. Hey, let’s just use, for example, a guitar, which is just coming off the top of my head that I’ve seen, not that I have any, yes, but if you were going to give somebody a script, what would that script be? Would you ask questions about like, why is this important to you? What are your future plans? Yeah.

Donna Jones (12:02.19)

you have any?

In association with them. What would that script look like?

Donna Jones (12:19.118)

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I would say, okay, here’s what you don’t do. And then here’s what you do do. So you don’t go, you don’t hold it up and go, are you kidding me? We still have this. I thought we got, you know, gave this away five years ago. You never use this. This is definitely going to goodwill, right? So you don’t say stuff like that. Because of course the other person is going to get defensive and honestly, Kathi, even if they didn’t really want it, just by the fact that we said it that way, now they’re going to want it.

Kathi (12:24.167)

Okay.

Kathi (12:28.295)

Right. Yeah.

Yes.

Kathi (12:44.455)

Yeah.

Kathi (12:48.743)

Right, dig their heels in. Yes.

Donna Jones (12:48.878)

So we shot ourselves in the foot, right? So instead you hold up the guitar and you go, I forgot we had this. What do you think about this item? Should we give this away? What do you think about this? And we let the other person say, and let’s just say they say, no, I want to keep that. Then the next question would be, okay, well, tell me why you want to keep that.

Well, you know, the sentimental value, you know, whatever. Okay. Well, where would, where do you think it would, we should keep that so that it doesn’t clutter up our garage. So we keep, you know, asking these questions and the other, you’ll either find a solution about where it goes or the other person may even come to the conclusion like, you know what? I don’t really need that after all. But it’s kind of.

Kathi (13:27.783)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (13:36.135)

Right.

Kathi (13:42.215)

Yeah.

Donna Jones (13:44.046)

become a win -win and you haven’t gotten to fight over your stuff.

Kathi (13:47.079)

Yeah, I also am a big believer in whatever space I’ve allotted to myself that I don’t have to explain this to you. I allot to my partner. And so, you know, whether it’s a gorilla rack or a shelf on a gorilla rack, there are just some things that are hard to get rid of. Like I have a dress in there that I’ve literally never worn and.

Donna Jones (14:00.878)

Okay, yeah.

Donna Jones (14:08.558)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:15.495)

Roger does not care about it by the way, but I feel stupid that I’m keeping it, because I keep on thinking there’s got to be a way, I love this dress, I love it, but it just is a funky dress, and I tried it on, and I tried it on, and I’m like, hey, that looks cute, and then I got home, and I’m like, what was I thinking? And I bought it out of state, and so if Roger’s not gonna give me,

You know push back on this ridiculous dress that I bought maybe I need to leave the guitar alone But I do think that we have to figure out. I like your your thought Where should we keep this so it does so we’re not tripping over it every time we’re going through the garage like there are other ways to Have a win -win without somebody getting rid of it. I want to talk further about this We do need to go take take a commercial break and when we come back

I want to go over those questions one more time to give us a little script. Like to say, if we’re looking at this guitar case and we’re like, are you kidding me? This is still here. Why does this thing haunt me in my dreams? And we want to have, the goal isn’t necessarily to get rid of it. The goal is to live with the mutual decision it sounds like. And.

Donna Jones (15:37.678)

Yeah. Well, if you’re living with someone, yeah, exactly. Because that’s part of it.

Kathi (15:41.447)

Yeah, okay. I wanna come back and come up with those questions so that we can have that script that we can enter and do. So we’re gonna take a quick break, get this podcast paid for, and we’ll be right back.

Okay, Donna, here’s my question. I would love to give our listeners a little script. So, you know, let’s go back to the guitar, because that’s not a big deal. It’s just something that, well, let’s just be clear, I’ve lived with for 18 years, but it’s okay. Yeah, do I sound okay? Maybe not. So the first…

I’m not gonna say, are you kidding? We still have this guitar. This guitar haunts my dreams. We’re not gonna say that. We’re gonna say something more along the lines of, tell me about why this guitar is important to you or has been. Is that something like that?

Donna Jones (20:20.206)

Yeah, well, actually, we’re going to start with, yeah, we’re going to start with, what do you think we should do with this? Okay. That and, and.

Kathi (20:27.079)

Okay, and I’m gonna say, go ahead, tell me more.

Donna Jones (20:31.566)

No, well, I think the person goes, give it away. You’re done. I mean, you’re golden, right? You’re golden. Yeah.

Kathi (20:35.143)

You’re done. And you’re like, this is amazing. But I’m going to come back and say, but I played this in youth group, and that was kind of an important part of my life. And who knows, maybe someday I’ll pick it up again. Like these are not things Roger has necessarily said, but things that I imagine he might say. And I’m like, OK, but we don’t have a lot of room in our house. So like, what’s my next question for him?

Donna Jones (20:54.67)

Okay.

Donna Jones (21:01.166)

Yeah, so start with like, what do you think we should do with this? Then if they want to keep it, okay, tell me why that this is important. You feel like this is important to you. And then if they give you a reason, then say, okay, well, where do you think we should keep it so that it’s not in our way? And then you put it on them and then you need one. Yeah, find that place.

Kathi (21:08.519)

Yeah.

Kathi (21:20.615)

Okay, okay, to find that place. Okay, great. Now, I’m gonna challenge you with something bigger, Donna. We have people in our group, especially our paid group, Clutter -Free for Life, that their husbands have had things like farm equipment that they haven’t used in a decade, or cars, or…

I don’t know, you know, whole rooms dedicated to a hobby. So big stuff. How do you go to the next place in the conversation in big stuff?

Donna Jones (21:51.342)

So big stuff, big stuff. Yeah.

Donna Jones (21:59.566)

Yeah, yes, such a great question. Well, there is a chapter in the book called big things, little things, and everything in between. So part of handling conflict well is discerning. And when I say big things, little things, we’re talking about physical big things or physical little things, right? But there are emotional big things and emotional little things. So, you know, this is broader than just possessions.

So we got to discern, is this a big deal or a big thing or is this just a little thing like the dress in your closet? That’s just a small thing. It’s not a big deal. It doesn’t really take up much space and Rogers not, it’s not causing angst in your marriage, right? Small thing, let it go. But there are big things, emotionally big things or things like cars on the driveway or cars on the front lawn.

Kathi (22:29.543)

Right.

Kathi (22:46.503)

Right. Right.

Kathi (22:55.655)

Mm -hmm. Yeah. It’s a big deal.

Donna Jones (22:56.846)

that that’s a big deal, right? So that’s got to be addressed. That’s got to be addressed. In the book, I actually talk very specifically about a couple who were vastly different in the way they viewed a big thing. And their big thing was finances. He was a spender, she was a saver. And they just, every single time they talked about finances, it was World War Three.

Kathi (23:14.535)

Mm -hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (23:26.503)

Donna Jones (23:26.798)

So it could be, you know, there’s somebody in your listening audience where their husband is kind of a hoarder, they’re trying to get it together and get clutter free, and it is just a constant conflict, right? So here’s what happens oftentimes is when we battle the same things over and over and over again, we tend to make the person the problem. Like if you weren’t such a hoarder, if you weren’t so invested in that darn car, you know, you see what I’m saying? So we make the person the…

Kathi (23:36.423)

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (23:49.031)

Mmm. Yeah.

Yeah, yes.

Donna Jones (23:56.397)

problem. But here’s why that doesn’t work. We can never solve a person. We can only solve a problem. So instead of making a person the problem, keep the problem the problem. So let’s just say you have, you know, you have a whole room that you can’t use because your husband’s taking it up.

Kathi (24:03.527)

Oof. Yes.

Kathi (24:12.967)

Okay.

Donna Jones (24:23.182)

And that’s, you need that room or you want that room or that bothers you for whatever reason. So what you’re gonna do is you’re gonna sit down and you’re gonna come up with, you’re gonna talk about something that could be like a win -win solution. So, and you’re gonna think about the other person’s interests, right? So this is called like,

Kathi (24:26.887)

Right.

Kathi (24:41.127)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (24:46.631)

Okay.

Donna Jones (24:50.318)

Well, I can’t even remember what it’s called. What else is going on? It’s going out of my brain. My brain is cluttered right now. Yeah, a little side note, Kathi. Yeah, you’re trying to get to a win -win. So you sit down and you write where you’re going with this. So let’s just say it’s both of us feel good about that extra room, right? That both of us feel good about that. The way that extra room is,

Kathi (24:53.095)

That’s okay.

But you’re trying to get to a win -win, is what you’re saying. Yeah.

Kathi (25:10.439)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (25:15.911)

Mm -hmm. Yes. Yes.

Donna Jones (25:20.27)

being used. Then that’s where you’re going. So you’re both going in the same direction on this problem. Then you start brainstorming and you make a commitment, we’re just going to brainstorm this as a brain dump. So no, this is not the point where you go, that’s not going to work. No, you just like throw it out. But if there’s something that it’s like, that’s just, that’s not going to work for either of us. You can dump that one.

Kathi (25:21.607)

Yes.

Kathi (25:28.775)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (25:33.543)

you

Right.

Kathi (25:48.103)

Yeah.

Donna Jones (25:48.11)

And then you just start kind of, you know, you start kind of winnowing them down, but you’re always keeping in mind, okay, what’s the end goal? So this works for you, this works for me. And, you know, you kind of work toward that. Now that might take several conversations.

Kathi (26:08.647)

Right, I think the problem we often have is we want to get to the solution in 15 minutes when the problem has taken a decade. And that’s painful. So, you know, if there is a, you know, when you’re brainstorming saying, you know, I’d really love for our kids to be able to stay in that room when they come to visit. And I know your hobby is really important to you.

Donna Jones (26:13.678)

Listen. Listen.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Kathi (26:36.519)

Could we divide the space? Could we think through, could we use, you know, you used to collect coins and stamps and now you’re just collecting stamps. Could we do something with the coin? Like, I love the idea of brainstorming together to a solution where a common win is. And that common win is we both love our kids and we’d love for them to be able to stay here. Or, yeah.

Donna Jones (26:52.846)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (26:57.038)

Yes.

Donna Jones (27:02.286)

Okay, you just, that I just want to point out what you said, that was really key. We both love our kids. So you’ve just now put yourself on the same side. You have the same interest. So at some point in all of this, you’re gonna have a common interest in some area. It might just be your kids or you might,

Kathi (27:08.199)

Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (27:15.079)

Mmm, yeah.

Kathi (27:23.047)

Right. Yeah.

Kathi (27:28.295)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (27:31.158)

If you always are thinking about just your interests, I want that room back because I want to use it as a guest bedroom. That’s never going to convince someone because you’re only looking at what’s important to you. You have to remember how you view things determines how you do things. So you have to always be thinking, what’s a win for you? What would be helpful for you? So when you do that, it’s easier to resolve your conflict.

Kathi (27:38.151)

Right, right.

Yeah.

Kathi (27:52.551)

Yeah.

Kathi (27:59.143)

Let me ask you this question because we have some people in some of our groups who are in really hard circumstances. And I’m thinking of one friend in particular who, you know, we talk about.

Donna Jones (28:08.846)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (28:16.167)

in our group saying, it’s really important to me that when we have people over, I’m not embarrassed by the house. That, you know, the house doesn’t have to be perfect, but I want people to feel comfortable coming into my house. And this friend said, but what if my family doesn’t care if I’m comfortable or not? And in my estimation, that’s not a clutter problem.

Donna Jones (28:25.006)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kathi (28:44.647)

That’s a relationship issue. What would you say to somebody who says, my family doesn’t care that I feel blank, blank, blank.

Donna Jones (28:44.846)

Yeah, that’s exactly right.

Donna Jones (28:56.782)

Yes. my goodness. It’s really interesting, Kathi, because in doing the interviews for the book and talking to people about the book, because the book is really a relational book, right? Because conflict is relational always. One of the biggest questions I get, it’s twofold really. One is what are the biggest mistakes that you can make in conflict? And

Kathi (29:08.551)

Yeah, yeah. Right, absolutely.

Kathi (29:22.439)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (29:24.686)

actually the biggest, well, I don’t know if this is the biggest, but one of the top three. I actually have a chapter in the book called the top 10 mistakes that people make in terms of conflict. But the top one of the top three would be being dismissive of another person’s concern, because that communicates disrespect, right? And it’s a very short walk from disrespect to the dissolution of a relationship.

Kathi (29:33.415)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:40.647)

Mmm, yeah. Yeah.

Right?

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:52.487)

Yeah, absolutely.

Donna Jones (29:52.59)

So that’s why being dismissive is a really big deal. So that your friend is feeling dismissed. That’s a big deal. That needs to be addressed on a deeper. Yeah, it is.

Kathi (30:00.231)

Yeah, it’s a huge deal. So is that something to take to a counselor at that point? Because that doesn’t feel like anything I can address about clutter. But I do feel like that’s not OK. Roger would never tell me, I don’t care how you feel. That would never come up. So.

Donna Jones (30:12.942)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Donna Jones (30:19.598)

Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Kathi (30:27.079)

Is that the next step or are there steps in between somebody saying that and going to a counselor?

Donna Jones (30:32.207)

Yeah, I think there are steps in between because sometimes we assume that, let’s just say your friend has communicated. See, that’s the other thing. Sometimes we assume that we’re communicating what’s important to us, but we’re actually not communicating it clearly. So one of the things that my husband would like to say is expectation without communication always leads to frustration.

Kathi (30:34.535)

Okay.

Kathi (30:58.279)

that is true, yes.

Donna Jones (31:00.334)

Yeah. So we have to make sure, wait, did I communicate this in a clear way? And if I didn’t, that’s maybe why I’m frustrated because the other person’s not clear on my expectation.

Kathi (31:04.743)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Okay. I’m expecting you to mind read and suddenly you’ve lost that power. Darn it. Okay.

Donna Jones (31:14.03)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So that’s the first step. Did I communicate this? My wants, my needs, my expectations, whatever. And then if, let’s just say you did, and the other person’s like, well, I don’t care. Why is that a big deal to you? Now that’s when you need to have a deeper conversation.

about and you need to really address some of these issues, right? Now, this may not be counseling level yet. This is where you make conflict work for you rather than against you. And one of the things that I talk about in the book is a conflict continuum that on either side of an unhealthy way of dealing with conflict is

Kathi (32:00.839)

Mm -hmm.

Donna Jones (32:07.086)

On one side is avoidance, we’re the avoiders, and on the other side are the attackers. And probably all of your listeners know where they are, either more toward avoidance or more toward attacking, and they also probably know what their family members are, right?

Kathi (32:12.775)

Mm -hmm.

You’re right.

Kathi (32:23.431)

We’re two avoiders married to each other, so you know, nothing ever gets done. Yes.

Donna Jones (32:27.502)

basically you know you know right so here’s the thing Kathi neither of those is healthy or biblical so instead of being an avoider or an attacker the sweet spot in the middle is are the addressers and these are the people who have learned to address the issues so that the conflict ends up

Kathi (32:35.175)

Right.

Donna Jones (32:54.222)

being able to be resolved or worked through or at least managed in a healthy way. Okay? So, and a lot of the book is, okay, how do you do that? Because that’s the golden ticket. That’s the golden question, right?

Kathi (32:56.967)

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Kathi (33:05.671)

Right.

Yeah, so yeah, and I will correct myself and say with Roger and myself we are addressers to each other, but we were born both avoiders. So we are growing, we are growing, we’re still avoiders with some other people because my goodness, yeah. Okay, so just a final question here. If somebody, you know, and I definitely, guys, I recommend the book and we’ll put a link in there for,

Donna Jones (33:18.126)

that’s good.

Donna Jones (33:22.702)

Hahaha!

Kathi (33:38.119)

for all of you to check that out. If somebody is saying, you know what, this has been something, I’m tired of avoiding the conversation, or I’m tired of the fight level in my household, because I know that this is a short trigger for me.

I get very angry when I talk about that. What is one major step we can do to address the conflict in a healthy way that we haven’t talked about yet in the podcast? You say, my end goal is for both myself and this person I live with to have a good outcome. I want to address this in a healthy way and I don’t want to go back to my old patterns of attack or avoidance. What’s one thing I can do?

Donna Jones (34:36.014)

Okay, when most people think of how to handle conflict, they think of what action do I need to take? But the most important component of handling conflict well is not an action. It’s an attitude. And that attitude is humility. And here’s why.

Humility allows us to both see our perspective and the other person’s perspective. And humility is not the same thing as humiliation, right? Humility simply makes us a doorway for conversation, not a doormat for exploitation. So they’re really different. So if we’re humble, then that opens the door for further conversation.

Kathi (35:28.647)

No.

Kathi (35:38.279)

Mmm, yes.

Donna Jones (35:47.118)

So we really have to go back to this is you and me, not you versus me. So let me tell you, let me just close with this story that this was such a powerful but yet simple thing that my husband taught me really just by the way he responded to me. We were having a conflict early in our marriage.

Kathi (35:56.007)

Right.

Donna Jones (36:11.694)

And I really wanted him to see my perspective and he really wanted me to see his perspective. And we were going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And you know how that goes. Nobody’s really listening to each other and you’re interrupting each other and the conflict is escalating, escalating, escalating. And then we got to the point where JP just looked at me and he goes, Donna, Donna, I’m on your team. And Cathy, that phrase, I’m on your team, literally.

de -escalated that conflict in a nanosecond. Because what that did is it reminded me that, okay, we’re not adversaries here. And let’s try to work this out. But sometimes we just have to say that out loud. We have to verbally express our humility. Hey, I’m on your team. And we can do this. That takes humility.

Kathi (36:45.127)

Yes.

Kathi (36:53.159)

Right.

Kathi (37:05.275)

Yes. When it comes to decluttering, when it comes to decluttering, I think one of the humility stances we have to take is I, even though I belong to this group, I listen to this podcast, like I’m up in the clutter all the time, I don’t necessarily have the best answer. Like,

Maybe my spouse or my roommate or my child or my parent has a better idea how to handle this thing that we perceive as clutter. Maybe they have a better idea or maybe brainstorming together. We can because I think most of us know, well, that should be thrown away or that should be donated or that should be stored in this way. And to say humility says I want to win for both of us.

So let’s brainstorm together and be on the same team. Because our common enemy is the chaos in our lives. And being on the same team says, we don’t defeat each other, we defeat the chaos. And that’s what we’re going to do here. Donna, this is such a great perspective. Friends, the book is called Healthy Conflict, Peaceful Life. And isn’t that?

Donna Jones (38:11.597)

Mmm, yes.

Kathi (38:30.887)

I know we all want to avoid the conflict. We can’t avoid the conflict. So let’s deal with it in a healthy way. We’re going to have notes and links in the podcast notes so that you can go find out more about Donna, more about the book, and more about her podcast. Donna, thanks so much for being on ClutterFree Academy.

Donna Jones (38:49.902)

thank you so much, Kathi. This was just a joy.

Kathi (38:52.807)

This is so much fun to talk about from all the different perspectives for me. I just love it and friends Thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to clutter free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp now go create the clutter free life You’ve always wanted to live

#671 – Sentimental Clutter: Finding Freedom in Letting Go

Kathi Lipp returns with Tonya Kubo and Tenneil Register to address a common challenge faced by those on the clutter-free journey: sentimental items. In this insightful episode, the trio tackles the emotional weight of inherited belongings and the guilt that often...

#670 – Emotional Decluttering: A Journey Through Sentimental Keepsakes

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by clutter experts Tonya Kubo and Tenneil Register for the second part of their heartfelt discussion on sentimental items. Discover the emotions that often lead us to hold onto things we neither love nor...

#669 – From Macaroni Necklaces to Masterpieces: A Guide to Decluttering and Organizing Kid Memorabilia

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp teams up with decluttering experts Tonya Kubo and Tenille Register to tackle one of the toughest challenges for parents—letting go of kids' sentimental items. Whether it’s a macaroni necklace or a monumental art...

#626 The Hidden Trauma Behind Clutter: How to Start Healing Your Relationship with Possessions

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 16, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free For Life, Clutter Free Heart, Clutter Free Home, Clutter Free Podcast, Fear, Freedom, Home, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

626 The Hidden Trauma Behind Clutter: How to Start Healing Your Relationship with Possessions

Have you ever struggled to give things away without feeling guilty, even when the items have only a slight chance of being useful in the future?

That very question came from our Clutter Free Academy listeners. In this CFA Mail Bag episode, Kathi Lipp and co-host Tonya Kubo answer that question and more. They dive deep into the emotional aspects of decluttering, focusing on the guilt that often accompanies getting rid of items.
Kathi and Tonya explore the roots of this guilt, discussing how childhood experiences and ingrained perfectionism can contribute to cluttering behaviors in adulthood. They share personal anecdotes and practical strategies for overcoming these emotional barriers to decluttering.

Listeners will discover:

Why it’s important to question why we’re not using certain items
How being intentional about what we bring into our homes is crucial
When considering environmental impact should happen

Throughout the episode, Kathi and Tonya offer encouragement and practical advice for breaking free from the cycle of clutter and creating a more peaceful, organized living space.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest

Kathi Lipp gives readers an easy-to-follow process for meal planning and prep, so that they can enjoy a full day each week of real rest and refreshment.

Could you use a break from cooking (and everything else) once a week? Not only is rest vital for your mind and body, it’s good for your soul too. God designed us to enter into Sabbath rest one day per week, but as you know, meals still need to be made. Your family still needs to be fed.

Sabbath Soup includes convenient, seasonal meal plans that take the guesswork out of shopping and cooking. More than just a collection of delicious recipes—including main dishes, breads, breakfasts, desserts, salads, sides, and yes, soups—this is your guide to establishing a weekly rhythm and routine of meal planning and prep that allows you to have a true day off.

Do something good for your soul and experience the peace that comes with a full day dedicated to spending time with God, family, and friends. Savor your Sabbath as you proudly proclaim, “Soup’s on!”

Preorder your copy of Sabbath Soup: Weekly Menus and Rhythms to Make Space for a Day of Rest here. Preorder offer ends October 8, 2024.

Links Mentioned:

www.Tonyakubo.com

Information from the National Recording Preservation Board on Fibber McGee and Molly

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

Have you taken the “Low Buy July” Challenge? How is that going?

Share in the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

Leave a note in the comment section below.
Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

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Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

Transcript

Well, hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy, where our goal is to help you take small, doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life. And I am here with…

the co -host with the most, it is Tonya Kubo. Although, here’s the thing. It’s so funny. Somehow, people got onto a discussion about who their favorite guests were on Clutter free Academy. It is a horse race between Tonya Kubo and Roger Lipp. If I could pick two people for it to be a horse race in, yes.

Tonya Kubo (00:40.974)

Tonya Kubo (00:45.454)

It is.

Kathi (00:55.489)

If I had to, we could do this entire podcast with just the two of you and be just fine. Because I feel like you bring the heart of a cluttery person who has done some healing to this. And Roger brings the, I live with a cluttery person. And, but I, I, I learned an interesting fact about our friend Roger Lipp. So we were, I learned we were driving away from my mom’s house and

Tonya Kubo (00:59.854)

Hahaha

Tonya Kubo (01:18.926)

What did you learn?

Kathi (01:25.281)

know, when we leave town, it’s kind of hilarious, Tonya, because we’ve got our Yeti cooler and we’ve got a pretty small car. We’ve got, we just bring the Jeep usually back and forth. So we had the Yeti cooler, we had our Sam’s order, we had, you know, I bring food back and forth from my mom’s. And then we had some dog food, like all this stuff. And my mom said, it looks like Fibber McGee is pulling out.

Tonya Kubo (01:28.398)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (01:44.142)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (01:54.625)

which I guess was a radio show in the 1940s. Right. Yeah, a little cultural context from 80 years ago. And so Roger says, I’ve been called that all my life. And I’m like, wait, what?

Tonya Kubo (01:57.966)

I’ve heard the name but I had no idea what it meant. So thank you for explaining for me. I appreciate this. Thanks.

Tonya Kubo (02:13.774)

Okay, now we need to know why.

Kathi (02:16.289)

Okay, so, you know, Roger’s mom got remarried in like the the 70s. And his new father, which is kind of funny. His name was Dr. Dobson. Now, not the Dr. Dobson. Yeah, yes, exactly. But this was Dr. Dobson who was a pastor. And he’s very interesting. He actually shook the hand of Einstein because they were both at college at the same time. Right? Right? So interesting.

Tonya Kubo (02:28.526)

Okay, not the Dr. Dobson.

Kathi (02:46.177)

But I know. Roger didn’t know that. I asked him. I asked him because I knew that they were at, I think it was Princeton at the same time. I had done a little research. Yeah, anywho. Yeah. And let’s just say Roger’s stepdad, much older than Roger’s stepmom. Little bit of a scandal, but you know, kind of anyway. That’s what keeps things interesting. Anyway, so Dr. Dean was his name.

Tonya Kubo (02:46.414)

Why isn’t Roger pulling that out at pub trivia?

Tonya Kubo (02:58.67)

Huh, okay.

Kathi (03:15.425)

Never raised his kids. They were always raised in like a missionary school things like that so Roger was the first kid he had ever really lived with and He thought Roger was this wild child and I’m like, my goodness. Tell me all the good stories He goes, yeah, he’d be up really late at night and I’m like tell me tell me more cuz I have no scandal on Roger He goes yeah working on that photography equipment. I’m like

Tonya Kubo (03:21.518)

Mmm.

Tonya Kubo (03:44.238)

he was in the dark room late at night alone with negatives.

Kathi (03:44.865)

Okay. Develop developing things for the yearbook and the newspaper. Yeah. So anywho, all this to say, Fibber McGee, so apparently Roger has been called cluttery his whole life. I have seen no evidence of this really in his life, but I just I, I, it felt good.

to know, you know, maybe we have a common core. This is way off topic. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (04:18.958)

off topic because today is my favorite episode. Okay, I do. I was like…

Kathi (04:24.641)

You love these episodes. I love them too, but you get a little bit of sick joy, I would just say.

Tonya Kubo (04:30.862)

Well, here’s what I love. So we’re doing a mailbag episode, which, and the mailbag episodes are my favorite. And the reason they are my favorite is twofold. Number one, I love, love, love, love, love that we can take the real life current experiences of our Clear Free Academy members and bring them onto the show to help other people who aren’t on Facebook.

Kathi (04:35.201)

Yep.

Kathi (04:54.945)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (04:58.766)

didn’t know we have a Facebook group or any of that. Like I love that. I also love the message that we send to our Clutterfree Academy members who ask these questions that they’re really not alone. Because if they were the only person on the planet who had this problem, who had this question, we would not be devoting an entire episode to it.

Kathi (05:12.289)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:20.161)

Right. And I love what you’re saying there, to feel less alone. Because we all sit in our houses, we only get invited over to perfect houses. And so we assume that we’re the only one without a perfect house. And just by our Facebook group statistics alone, which is over 15 ,000 people, I would challenge you to sit, I would challenge your thinking on that, that you’re the only one, because you’re not.

Tonya Kubo (05:31.214)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (05:41.262)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (05:47.726)

Yeah, exactly. So today’s question, I feel like speaks to the heart of where many people are when they join Clutterfree Academy. So I find that we have a few composite new members. There is the person who is like me, feeling suffocated by their stuff to the point that actually being unhoused sounds liberating.

Kathi (06:02.465)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:15.502)

Like the idea of having nothing but a backpack sounds like the ultimate liberation, which, go ahead.

Kathi (06:22.977)

My mom, Tonya, has a button that says potential bag lady. Like, yeah, she just, I think especially having two teenagers, she was like, just go and, you know, and by the way, we’re not making fun of unhoused people at all, friends, please, please, please. But I think everybody’s had, I think that’s why we like hotels so much.

Tonya Kubo (06:29.71)

Yeah!

Tonya Kubo (06:37.262)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:44.27)

No.

Tonya Kubo (06:49.966)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:51.201)

I think that’s why we like the thought of doing an RV or something like that. I think a lot of Cloré people have those same ideals.

Tonya Kubo (06:54.798)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (06:58.574)

Right. And so to the point, right, because what I’m really getting at is so overwhelmed that you just want to escape. We have that person and they want to escape their living circumstances. And then we have the person who comes who actually has a moral struggle. Like they’re not sure. They know that other people have a problem with the condition of their house or other people have a problem with their cluttery ways, but they’re not actually sure that other people are right. Because

Kathi (07:05.921)

bright.

Yes.

Kathi (07:27.713)

What do you mean by that?

Tonya Kubo (07:28.745)

Because in their heart of hearts, they think they’re doing good in the world by keeping hold of things. And so that’s where this question comes from. Because I know, like the outsiders who are not cluttery assume that, you know, our group is full of people who just can’t keep house, which you know how I feel about that. And that’s an episode for another day. But this is the person who says, okay, I hear what you’re saying that

Kathi (07:34.913)

Mmm, yes.

Yes.

Kathi (07:48.481)

Yeah, right.

Tonya Kubo (07:57.006)

I, you know, that it makes sense and it’s a good idea to have a house that’s tidy, that’s peace -filled, that my family enjoys. And yet, I genuinely cannot give anything away if it has even a modicum, even like a little itty bitty hair’s breadth chance of being useful at some point in time to someone, even if that someone’s not me.

What do I do when I can’t give anything away without feeling guilty? That’s the question. And it’s a doozy, right, Kathi? Because there is the decluttering aspect. There is the internal emotional aspect of the guilt. And I would even argue the shame of releasing stuff.

Kathi (08:25.985)

Right.

Kathi (08:35.329)

Hmm.

Tonya Kubo (08:48.686)

And we’ve worked a lot of times with members who the shame and the guilt comes from they spent money on that thing, right? That they’re not using. But this is different. This is I can see that somewhere, somehow somebody might need an extra cord from a slow cooker and therefore I cannot get rid of the cord. So that’s the question that I’m bringing to you, OYZ1. Hit me with your knowledge now.

Kathi (08:56.577)

Right.

Kathi (09:08.481)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Well, this is going to be a mutual knowledge thing. Okay. So can I tell you, I’m just gonna throw up confessions here. Okay. So, okay, I am a kid from the 80s, right? You know, Brat Pack, all that kind of stuff, like hardcore 80s. Yes, I know. I love them. And

Tonya Kubo (09:21.326)

Yeah

Tonya Kubo (09:30.734)

Sure, I’m all up for confessions.

Kathi (09:44.929)

But I grew up in a very black and white time. Like, excuse me. Like, if you were really hungry, you would eat those green peppers.

Tonya Kubo (09:54.094)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (10:05.397)

I was like, and we all could finish your sentence for you. If you were really hungry, you would eat what I put in front of you.

Kathi (10:08.481)

Yes. Right, right. And, you know, if you if you, you know, you shouldn’t have to buy clothes, because you should be happy with what you have. It very black and white thinking. And, you know, to be grateful for everything you have, which I agree with, Tonya, I don’t actually know a lot of people. I feel like

that express their gratitude for what they have more than I do. And I’m not saying that I don’t think I’m a big bragger on here, but I just know like my intense gratitude for what I have. And that can also be a trap. Like,

Tonya Kubo (10:42.734)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (10:52.718)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (10:58.318)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:01.249)

If you know, here’s a shirt and it has a bunch of stains on it. Okay, so I’m going to work really hard to get those stains out and I got those stains out, but now it’s a little frayed. But you know what? I’m going to, I’m going to, I’m going to do this, this, this, this. And then finally it gets to the place where that shirt can’t be used anymore. Well, I should be able to use that as a rag, even though it’s an ineffective way of cleaning my house. And I hate cleaning my house.

Tonya Kubo (11:08.494)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:23.662)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:30.657)

But I should, I should, I should. The person who is struggling to give things away without guilt, who I contend towards that, is we have got a brain full of shoulds. And maybe we grew up in a house where we were being corrected a lot. Like, okay, can I give a silly example without throwing my mom under the bus?

Tonya Kubo (11:32.942)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:38.03)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:45.902)

Mmm.

Kathi (12:00.769)

So yesterday, I was helping her clean her living room and there was just a plastic water bottle there. And I said, are you using this to water plants? And she goes, no, I think, you know, it just got left there by somebody. And I said, okay. So I go to the sink to dump it out. She goes, but water a plant with it, Kathi. And like, there’s…

Tonya Kubo (12:00.814)

Sure.

Tonya Kubo (12:18.862)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:31.809)

So it’s just funny, it’s a funny example, right? But you may have grown up in a house that was like that about everything. Like, okay, when that shirt’s no longer good, then we’re gonna give it to goodwill, even if it has stains on it, because somebody should be grateful for it, and somebody should wear it. And…

Tonya Kubo (12:34.606)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (12:41.806)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:57.185)

I have always been under the impression, or not always, but definitely in the last 20 years, if I wouldn’t want to wear it, why should I expect somebody else to want to wear it? If I wouldn’t eat it, why should I expect somebody else to want to eat it? I’ve had to change my thinking on that and say, it’s not a bet. We can be in such a poverty mindset that it’s impossible for us to give things away or to

Tonya Kubo (13:21.23)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (13:26.177)

throw things away. And, you know, like, okay, maybe that, you know, it’s that toaster oven, that if somebody spent $30 repairing it, that it could be useful. But most people don’t know how to repair a toaster oven, don’t know where to start with that. And yes, there are things you could do. And if you’re one of those naturally handy people, yay, but most of us aren’t.

Tonya Kubo (13:28.846)

Yeah…

Tonya Kubo (13:35.79)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (13:56.321)

And we have to figure out where we’re going to put our time, effort, and energy. And all of this is trade -offs. There is no… So many of us, I struggle with this mightily, are closet perfectionists. We don’t look like we’re perfectionists because if you came into our house, you know I’m not a perfectionist, but I am. I’m trapped in the way I should be doing things and I’m not doing things.

Tonya Kubo (13:57.038)

right?

Tonya Kubo (14:01.55)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:23.777)

and I live with that guilt all the time. And Tony, I want to hear your response to this. We’re going to take a quick break. We’re going to go get some bills paid. We’re going to come right back. And I want to hear your response to that perfectionistic mindset and maybe the people we grew up with contributing to that.

Tonya Kubo (14:34.062)

Yeah

Tonya Kubo (14:38.638)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (14:44.046)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (14:46.561)

Okay friends, we are back. Tonya is going to give us all her wisdom about how perfectionism really can be one of the main reasons why it’s hard to give away clutter, items, et cetera, without guilt. Go Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (15:04.59)

Alrighty. So it’s interesting this perfectionist idea, because I definitely agree with it. And I, there’s so much wrapped up in there. And I think your point is, you know, so much of our adult cluttery ways are steeped in some form of childhood trauma. And I’m not saying like capital T front page headline trauma.

Kathi (15:30.625)

Goodbye.

No.

Tonya Kubo (15:33.998)

I am saying I’m really talking about the trauma that just builds up. It’s like the thing that hurts your feelings but maybe didn’t hurt your brother’s feelings. That sort of stuff, right? Like you just, you carried it differently.

Kathi (15:45.185)

It’s, you can be, yeah, you can be traumatized just by imperfect parenting. And that, it’s something you still have to work out. It’s okay, you know, because we were all raised by imperfect parents. That’s what happened.

Tonya Kubo (15:52.558)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (16:01.71)

Exactly. So with that, I think that we also have to come to some point where we say, who do I really want to be? Right? What like what’s mine to carry? What do I want to carry? And I know for me, that cluttering journey has really been about going, huh, I don’t have to own this, right? Like this wasn’t even my junk to own in the first place.

Kathi (16:14.881)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (16:18.849)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (16:31.809)

That’s right.

Tonya Kubo (16:32.101)

And so, yes, there’s the perfectionistic part of wanting to do things right that our Clegary folks really, really struggle with. But I think the point you’re actually making is sometimes it’s not our own perfectionism, but it’s perfectionism that was projected onto us.

Kathi (16:51.041)

Mm -hmm. If you’re going to do it the right way, if you’re going to do, you know, there’s a moral attachment to being thrifty and reusing banks and a moral attachment to spending less money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And some of those are good things. You know, I believe in those things, but also they can be guilt traps.

Tonya Kubo (17:04.462)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (17:19.521)

They can be deep traps. And also, lots of times, Tonya, you may be done with something, but like we were talking about earlier, you still see the value in it. So you want to give it to me so that I can get the value out of it. I one time had somebody at church who said, Kathi,

Tonya Kubo (17:31.278)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (17:39.726)

Right.

Kathi (17:47.041)

I can’t use these hundred baskets anymore. And I’m not even joking, a hundred different baskets. 100 baskets. There were more than that, but it was at a minimum of a hundred. But I’ve left them here for you because I know you could do something with them. And in my brain is like, do you just want me to take them to the dump? Like, what do you want me to do? And it was, she was putting,

Tonya Kubo (17:50.734)

Mm -hmm. 100 baskets.

Tonya Kubo (18:06.414)

Like what?

Kathi (18:15.649)

a judgment on me to say, basically, if you’re a good person, you would figure out how to let these not go to waste. In my thinking, it was like, lady, you should not have collected 100 baskets. And yeah, and this was a lovely lady and she has since passed. And I think sometimes, like I’ve had some relatives where I’ve had to say, hey, I can take that from you, but you have to give me

full autonomy to deal with it in the way I want. You’re never going to ask me, where is this? Do you display it? And those relatives couldn’t do it. They needed, it’s a control issue, right? And I struggle with control issues as well. And I’ve had to learn that if I’m going to give something away, I have to be okay with whatever happens to it. And that is a hard place for people to be.

Tonya Kubo (19:10.574)

Mm -hmm. That’s true.

Kathi (19:15.649)

But also I need to make sure that I am controlling my own environment and not letting things seep in that or not refusing to give things away because of this mindset. You know, I am very quick to say, hey, I’m not using this. I’m going to give it away. I now I am. But I used

Tonya Kubo (19:32.206)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (19:42.318)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (19:45.185)

I used to have this guilt of like, I have to get the value out of it. I have to get the money out of it. Like I have to hold onto that shirt because I haven’t worn it enough. Well, why haven’t I worn it enough? Because it actually, you know, maybe it was itchy. And if it’s, so I think that’s the next step when you’re like, why am I not using this item? Is it because I’ve

Tonya Kubo (19:50.286)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (19:56.206)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (20:03.566)

Mmm.

Kathi (20:13.153)

outgrown it, either physically or emotionally or mentally, well then it’s okay to give to somebody else or if it’s not usable, it’s okay for it to go into the landfill. Every human gets a certain amount of landfill stuff and I would challenge you to look at your landfill consumption on the

acquiring end instead of the getting rid of it. That’s where you can do the most impact. So thinking about something before you purchase it, asking yourself, why am I no longer using this? You know, I had some, some pants that I was like, I’m just not wearing them. I’m just not wearing them. And so I’m like, okay, I’m going to pick them up. Why am I not wearing them? Well, when I picked them up, I realized, Tonya, what I kept doing.

Tonya Kubo (20:43.437)

Mm -hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi (21:10.209)

was I kept pulling them out of the closet, seeing they had this weird stain on them, and putting them back in the closet. This was not a good system for me, right?

Tonya Kubo (21:16.654)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (21:21.582)

Can I just tell you I have lived that exact same system, Kathi? It is okay. I feel you right now.

Kathi (21:24.161)

Right? Right? Yes! And so, but these are good fitting pants and I like how they look on me. I just don’t like a giant stain. So what am I doing? I’m dyeing those pants tomorrow.

Tonya Kubo (21:32.27)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (21:40.286)

I was just gonna ask if dying fixes that.

Kathi (21:42.849)

It does. It does. You have to go with darker color. So for me, it’s navy blue. For Tonya Kubo, it’s black. But you know, if you go that darker color.

Tonya Kubo (21:46.766)

Okay.

Tonya Kubo (21:52.238)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (22:04.641)

I’ll just be honest, sometimes we’re trying too hard to save things that don’t need to be saved. Maybe the taco casserole that I made the other day that I was trying a new recipe on and Roger said, he’s very appreciative of my cooking, but he goes, it tastes like there’s a piece of Wonder Bread in the middle of it. And he was not down with that texture. And I tried to save it a couple of times. Yeah, sometimes you just need to give up and it’s okay to give up, try to fix something. But if you can’t,

Tonya Kubo (22:08.75)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:19.214)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:24.878)

Got it.

Tonya Kubo (22:29.262)

Yeah.

Kathi (22:33.729)

fix it, don’t keep it. I want you to hear me clearly. I’m not screaming at Tonya. I’m screaming at all of my friends who are like, well, at some point there’s magically going to need to be a use for that. You know, I don’t know why I have 300 solo cups, but there’s going to be a day where somebody is going to need those 300 solo cups or, you know, maybe it’s today. Maybe your kid’s school needs them. I don’t know what the

Tonya Kubo (22:39.758)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (22:49.87)

and

Kathi (23:03.713)

The rules are about red solo cups like at a kids school. Is it too evocative of a college party? Okay.

Tonya Kubo (23:09.454)

No, nobody knows, they’re just disposable cups that everybody uses.

Kathi (23:12.353)

Okay, good, good, good, good. But if you cannot figure out a use for that item, if you can’t figure out somebody who would gleefully receive that item, and here’s the test, Tonya. If you put it up on a buy nothing group and you get no takers, it’s probably junk.

Tonya Kubo (23:31.118)

Yep, that makes sense.

Kathi (23:32.641)

It’s a really quick test. I want us to think about, it’s not about I’ve wasted the money. I’ve gotten my money’s worth, if I wore it one time or 100 times. And now it’s time for somebody else. Cluttery people are so generous. So it’s time for somebody else to get the use out of it. If you’ve only worn it one time,

Tonya Kubo (23:44.814)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (23:56.75)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (24:02.337)

then it probably still has a lot of life left in it and somebody else will use it. But if you’ve worn it a hundred times, it may be time for it to go into clothing recycling. It’s okay, I promise.

Tonya Kubo (24:13.102)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (24:16.782)

That makes sense. And I think, you know, part of me feels like, well, we say that all the time. And then the other part of me feels like, you know what? I know early in my journey, I couldn’t hear it enough. I needed the constant reminder that it is not my job to single -handedly save the environment by never putting another thing in a landfill. It is not my job to be the example of stewardship.

Kathi (24:29.281)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Kathi (24:40.737)

Right, right.

Tonya Kubo (24:46.83)

for the entire planet by retaining everything I ever bought or ever received. So thank you. Thank you for that because even now so many years later, it’s still a helpful reminder.

Kathi (24:53.057)

Yeah.

Kathi (25:01.281)

Well, and I really want to challenge us to think, for some reason, us Cluttery people think about the environment after the purchase. And so to think about before we purchase what, you know, you know my favorite motto from World War I, use it up, wear it out, make do, do without.

Tonya Kubo (25:14.157)

Yes.

Kathi (25:29.313)

That is so much about not bringing new things into our home. And it’s okay. We need to buy things sometimes. I bought a tank top yesterday because right now it is a 110 in Sacramento and I needed a tank top. I’m fine with that. I felt like that was a good purchase, something I’ll be able to use for years to come. But

Tonya Kubo (25:35.31)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (25:51.438)

Yeah.

Kathi (25:58.657)

I thought about it before I bought it. This has been the biggest change I really do like in my clutter free journey after seriously decluttering my house is being so intentional and thoughtful about what I bring into the house. So if you’re feeling guilty about getting rid of things, I always think about it like this. It’s kind of a reset. So if you have a bunch of clothes in your closet that you’re not using,

Tonya Kubo (26:22.222)

Mm.

Kathi (26:26.785)

but you go to your closet every day and you’re like, there should be something here, but there’s nothing I want to wear. It is time to get rid of some of those things in your closet. So you actually have an accurate picture of what you have and can say, you know what? I don’t have a cream tank top. And that would actually go with a lot of things I have. Look at that. I don’t have a pair of jeans that I feel amazing in.

Everybody needs a pair of jeans that they just feel like is a banger. And so, but you’ll never know that when you have 75 things in there that you never wear. And that’s what I want for you. So get that accurate inventory of what you actually have. This could be for food. This could be for gardening equipment. This could be for your closet. This could be for your linens. Because otherwise what we end up doing, Tonya, is we go to the store and you’re like,

Tonya Kubo (26:57.55)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (27:06.414)

so true.

Tonya Kubo (27:21.678)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (27:23.809)

Yeah, I remember that the last time I went to my closet, there was nothing to wear. So I think I just need to buy some new clothes, some new clothes, right? And then what we end up doing is buying things that we don’t need. And then we hold on to things because, well, I spent so much money on it’s this vicious cycle. And we’re going to break the cycle by being intentional about what we bring into our home.

Tonya Kubo (27:28.782)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (27:32.558)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (27:37.806)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (27:48.814)

I love that. I love that.

Kathi (27:50.209)

Yeah. Okay. Well, Tonya, I love these mailbag issues because I feel like we get to go deeper. We get to go to the heart of it. We get to go to our own histories and our own coming up and thinking about this. And guys, when we talked about that trauma, I want you to hear me that you…

Tonya Kubo (28:03.214)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (28:13.537)

I love what you said, Tonya. It’s the lowercase t. It’s the things that make us act in ways that we wouldn’t want to act and make us use decisions. And guys, here’s the thing. I know that I have done this for my kids. If my kids have kids, they’ll do it for their kids. This is part of the cycle of life. But we also know that we can break those cycles.

Tonya Kubo (28:17.486)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (28:24.814)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (28:41.966)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (28:42.497)

And when I break a cycle, even as the adult parent of adults, it does trickle down. They can see changes in our lives and I think that’s beautiful. Tonya, thank you so much for being with me today.

Tonya Kubo (28:49.102)

Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (28:56.462)

Thanks for having me, Kathi.

Kathi (28:58.337)

And guys, thank you for being with us. If you are struggling in this and you are not part of our Facebook group, can I really encourage you to go over there and check it out? And I’ve heard from a couple of people recently, well, I tried to join and I was not let in. Let me tell you, you probably didn’t answer some questions and that’s okay. But just know that there are questions to ask and answer, there are questions to answer. And if you’re not crazy,

Tonya Kubo (29:19.438)

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (29:24.718)

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:28.129)

We will let you in or if you’re all kind of crazy, we’ll let you in. It’s all good friends. Okay Yeah, so join us over at Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy where we talk about these kind of issues all the time and we can support each other because we love to hear what your answers to these questions are as well because we get more wisdom from everybody You’ve been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now go create the Clutter Free life. You were always designed to live

#671 – Sentimental Clutter: Finding Freedom in Letting Go

Kathi Lipp returns with Tonya Kubo and Tenneil Register to address a common challenge faced by those on the clutter-free journey: sentimental items. In this insightful episode, the trio tackles the emotional weight of inherited belongings and the guilt that often...

#670 – Emotional Decluttering: A Journey Through Sentimental Keepsakes

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by clutter experts Tonya Kubo and Tenneil Register for the second part of their heartfelt discussion on sentimental items. Discover the emotions that often lead us to hold onto things we neither love nor...

#669 – From Macaroni Necklaces to Masterpieces: A Guide to Decluttering and Organizing Kid Memorabilia

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp teams up with decluttering experts Tonya Kubo and Tenille Register to tackle one of the toughest challenges for parents—letting go of kids' sentimental items. Whether it’s a macaroni necklace or a monumental art...

#624 Decluttering Family Heirlooms: Navigating Emotional Attachments

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jul 2, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Kitchen, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

624 Decluttering Family Heirlooms: Navigating Emotional Attachments

Hey there, friend! Do you ever feel like your home has become a storage unit for everyone else’s stuff?

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, hosts Kathi Lipp and Tonya Kubo address a common struggle for many listeners: what to do when family members, both parents and adult children, want to leave their belongings at your house. They discuss the challenges of being part of the sandwich generation, caught between aging parents trying to pass down heirlooms and adult children who may not have the space or desire for these items. Join Kathi and Tonya as they tackle the tough questions and offer practical advice for decluttering with compassion and clarity.

Listeners will discover:

The changing attitudes toward possessions among younger generations
How to navigate the disconnect between parents’ expectations and their children’s needs.
The importance of finding solutions that work for everyone

Whether you’re a parent looking to pass down treasured items or an adult child grappling with the influx of stuff, you’ll come away with a fresh perspective and actionable steps for creating a more peaceful, clutter-free home.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

Also, stay up to date and sign up here to receive our newsletter.

The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home

Homesteading [hohm-sted-ing]
noun
1. an act or instance of establishing a homestead.
2. the act of loving where you live so much that you actively ignore the fact that your house is trying to kill you on a regular basis.

For Kathi Lipp and her husband, Roger, buying a house in one of the most remote parts of Northern California was never part of the plan; many of life’s biggest, most rewarding adventures rarely are.

Kathi shares the hard-won wisdom she’s gained on her homestead journey to help you accomplish more at home, gain fresh perspective, and give yourself grace in the process. Here’s a handful of the lessons Kathi shares:

Prepare before the need arises
Everything is always in process, including us
Your best household solution is time and patience
You don’t have to do everything the hard way
Be open to new and better ways of doing things
A lot of small changes make a huge difference.
Highly practical, humorous, and inspirational, The Accidental Homesteader will encourage you to live with more peace, joy, and contentment.

Order your copy of The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home here.

Links Mentioned:

www.Tonyakubo.com

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

What are some creative ways to preserve memories and honor family history without holding onto physical clutter?

Share them in the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

Leave a note in the comment section below.
Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

Transcript

Kathi (00:00)
hey friends, welcome to Clutter Free Academy where our heart is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life.

And I am here with Tonya Kubo, who is the leader over in our Clutter Free Academy Facebook group. And if you’re not a part of that, I don’t even know why not. It’s free, it’s amazing, she does such a great job there. But we are doing a new kind of episode here today. We’re calling it a mailbag episode. Tonya explain what we’re talking about here today.

Tonya Kubo (00:19)
Yeah.

Yeah, so what happens over in Clutter Free Academy, Clutter Free for Life, but it’s more pronounced over in Clutter Free Academy is, you know, folks join our community and they assume that they are the only person that struggles with clutter, or at least the only person who struggles with clutter like they do. And then they discover that there’s like, you know, we’ve got over 15 ,000 close friends in that group who have the exact same struggles as them, that they are not alone. At the same time, though, when they’re brand new, especially, they…

you know, they hesitate to ask certain questions because they don’t know what kind of response they’ll get. So oftentimes they will email me their question or they’ll send me a private message on Facebook with their question. And sometimes, you know, we’ll just have that private conversation. Other times I will generalize it and post it anonymously to the group and answer it that way. But what I realized is that our podcast listeners who aren’t in the Facebook group, they don’t get the benefit and they also don’t know.

that they can submit specific questions for us to answer here on the show. So what better way than to make all of that known is rather than is to have the mailbag episode.

Kathi (01:35)
Yes.

Okay, and I think we’re going to be doing this about once a month. So if you have a question, what’s the best way for them to ask it, Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (01:50)
Well, you know what I would love for them to do is if they are in the group, then they can just post it to the group and say, hey, Tonya, consider this for a mailbag episode and put their question there. The reason I would love that is it gives everybody in the community an opportunity to speak into it. And I think that will help us make an even better episode. So they don’t just get Tonya and Kathi’s perspective, but they get everybody’s perspective. However, if you’re not in the Facebook group and Facebook isn’t your thing, email me at Tonya at kathilipp.org.

Kathi (02:03)
Mmm, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (02:20)
and just put mailbag in the subject line and I will take care of you from there.

Kathi (02:25)
I love it. Okay, so what is today’s mailbag question?

Tonya Kubo (02:30)
Okay, so we’ve titled the this episode with you know what to do when everybody wants to leave their stuff at your house. That was not the specific question that was asked at the same time. I think that is most likely the most acute problem a lot of our listeners have. So I’m going to tell you the question and we’ll answer that specific question, but it also speaks to the title of the episode. So stick with us on this. So the question that came in,

Kathi (02:49)
Yes.

Okay.

Tonya Kubo (02:59)
was from a parent, right? So sandwich generation, right? So they’ve got, they have parents and then, you know, they’ve got adult children. And the issue that they were, well, actually it was the observation that they made was that kids these days, and I use the term kids lightly, because I think to them, I would be a kid, but live differently. Young adults live differently now than they did 30 years ago.

Kathi (03:03)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (03:29)
And so what this member was acknowledging was that, you know, when they were 19, they were married and in their first home. And that home, that very first home was furnished with things that their parents had been saving for them for when they moved out of the house, right? They brought in their hope chest. They had, you know,

Kathi (03:47)
Right.

Tonya Kubo (03:51)
the hand -me -down dining room table, so on, so forth. And they were very appreciative of those things because it gave them a great start in life. And by the time they were 21, they already had kids and they were still, they have this history of welcoming items from either their parents or from their in -laws as they were building this house out. Fast forward to today, they’ve got kids in their late 20s, early 30s.

They don’t own a home. They maybe don’t even want to own a home. They don’t have kids. So here our member has been storing all this stuff, saving it up for their kids to take to help get them that strong start as they build their new home or they live with their family and their kids don’t have that need. And so their question is like, what do I do? Right? Because it feels it.

Kathi (04:25)
Right.

Right.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (04:50)
It feels bad. It feels like being a bad parent to get rid of that stuff. Because what if the kids need So tell me your thoughts, Kathi.

Kathi (04:56)
Right. So I think it’s interesting and you know, we’re talking about that sandwich generation. I will tell you that also my mom wants to give me stuff and also my kids don’t want to take the stuff that they want. You know what I mean? Like we had, we had a

Tonya Kubo (05:11)
Mm -hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi (05:25)
a situation where all the kids had moved out of the house and they were expecting us to store all of their stuff. So there’s so many different situations to this. So I would say to our gentle listener or, you know, Clutter Free Academy member is to say, it’s time to have a heart to heart with your kids and say, do you want this stuff? Will it serve you? And if they’re saying,

Tonya Kubo (05:34)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (05:54)
Yes, we want that stuff, but not now. You need to make the decision. Do you have the room and the desire to keep it until they’re ready for it? Or do you need to say that’s not really going to work for us now? Because here’s what I would gently say to our Clutter Free Academy member, that having that stuff for your kids could actually be costing them money.

You know, do they need an apartment that could handle that dining room table, that hope chest, that China, whatever that is. And like you said, a lot of people don’t live that way. You know, there’s also so many articles right now about how people who are in the baby boomer generation are living in these giant houses because it makes no financial sense for them to downsize.

Tonya Kubo (06:50)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (06:54)
It would actually cost them money so a lot of people who are in who are Millennials who need the bigger houses can’t have the bigger houses because it doesn’t make sense for baby boomers to move out like there are so many factors here at work and It I Know this that we have some friends who are in their early 30s They don’t want the stuff they want

to be able to move their entire house in the two cars that they own. They want to be able to live in cheap apartments and live that way. So I think it’s worth having that conversation. But here’s the key, being okay with whatever your kids tell you. So if they say, we don’t want the China cabinet, we don’t want the formal dining room.

Tonya Kubo (07:32)
Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (07:53)
We don’t want those things to be okay to say, be okay with them saying that and you getting, you finding a new home for it. Now here is where I will push back on your kids having a say. If they say, I want all my stuff from my childhood, but I don’t have room for it.

Tonya Kubo (08:03)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (08:21)
then I think it’s up to the child to come back to the house and go through the stuff and say, you know, you can say, hey, I’m willing to keep two tubs of this or 10 tubs, whatever it is. You get to decide how much space you will allot to storing other people’s items. But it’s not, you have to keep it because I don’t want it. Does that make sense, Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (08:32)
Mm -hmm.

It does, it makes complete sense. Because what I’m hearing is, first of all, you as the parent have only so much responsibility in this situation. I think that’s the big thing is it’s hard for parents to realize that as children grow up, they…

eventually come to a place where they need to take responsibility for their stuff, right? It’s no longer on you to store things for me. It is on me to take possession of the things that are important to me or to find a solution to keeping those things if my lifestyle right now doesn’t fit them.

Kathi (09:12)
Mm -hmm.

Yes. Tonya, here’s what I, the other point I want to make, and then we’re going to take a break and we’ll come back and talk more about this. What I see as being a major point of contention is I, as the parent, feel you should want this stuff. And what do you do with those feelings? So we’re going to take a quick break and come right back. Okay, we’re back.

We’re talking about when everybody wants to leave their stuff at your house. So if your kids are saying, I don’t want that stuff, and you’re saying, but you will someday, can I tell you? For me, that was not true. I don’t need a thousand of my baby pictures. I don’t need my bronze shoes. I don’t need X, Y, and Z. Now,

There may be parents out there who say, but you’re going to want this and it’s not true. And we have to trust our adult children to say, no, that’s not important to me. And that’s okay. It’s okay to say, I think that we come from a long line of people who, you know, I spent so much money bronzing these shoes. And to say, well then as a…

Tonya Kubo (10:38)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (10:55)
as a parent, you can keep those, but as a child, I don’t have to receive those. So I think it’s okay, and we have to, as parents, say it’s okay for our kids to say, what is important to me as a parent is not necessarily important to my child, and I have to be okay with that. That the stuff does not always represent a life. And…

Tonya Kubo (11:00)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:23)
You know, when my grandmother passed away, there were a thousand things I could have taken. I think I took four and that was enough to represent my relationship with my grandmother and my mom was okay with that. And so to be okay with the amount of stuff and not put a burden on our children to say, but you’re going to regret it someday. You’re going to regret. I think we instinctually know what will be important to us even 10 to 20 years from now.

Tonya Kubo (11:31)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:53)
And there are ways of preserving those things, taking pictures of them or incorporating them into our decor. But I don’t want storage boxes of my stuff that I then have to burden my children with. And I don’t want them to have storage boxes of stuff that then have to be a burden to them.

Tonya Kubo (12:06)
Mm -hmm.

Exactly. Well, and I think, you know…

What some parents worry about, and I’m, I think some adult kids, honestly, are not willing to have the hard conversation. You know, hard conversations don’t have to be conflict conversations. But a lot of times, you know, when, when mom says, well, but you want this, right? It’s just easier to say yes than to actually take a pause and say, you know, actually, mom,

Kathi (12:35)
Right.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (12:51)
No, I don’t. You know, I’m in my fourth apartment of my adult life and I’ve never seen a need to have my baby shoes or to have this or to have that. And, you know, I had a friend one time who her mom kept storing up stuff for grandbabies and my friend was having a very difficult time conceiving. And at one point,

we were cleaning out a closet and my friend was getting rid of all these things that had been stockpiled for her future children. And she says, you know, Tonya, I am just tired of holding space for babies that refuse to make an appearance. Right. And that was her thing. She was like, you know, I haven’t given up hope, but I need to stop like taking up all this space because the baby is just not here.

Kathi (13:32)
Right, wow.

Tonya Kubo (13:44)
And I was like, you know what, you’ve got a great point. And we did, we did a ton of decluttering. And the funny story was, is a year later, she ended up pregnant and we’re talking like 12 years of trying, right? She ends up pregnant and I asked her, I said, do you have any regrets? And she was like, no, I don’t actually. She goes, do you know how depressing it would have been to go through all those boxes and how overwhelming? She’s like, now I’m just going, okay, I know exactly how much space I have. I don’t have the, I don’t need a baby to fit the things that have been stored.

Kathi (13:44)
Right.

Of course. wow.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (14:12)
I can just buy what fits the lifestyle we have.

Kathi (14:12)
Yeah.

Hmm. You know what? It’s it’s so true. You know, everybody has to right size their life. And I think that there are some of us parents who are like, if I give this to my child, I’m not going to feel guilty for not wanting it.

Tonya Kubo (14:21)
Mm -hmm.

I think ultimately that’s really what it is, right? We all want to be good parents until the day we die. And I think sometimes what we, like our definition of a good parent isn’t always the same as our kids. And I think it’s a great idea to just have that conversation like you suggest.

Kathi (14:34)
and yeah right yes

Yeah, and it’s okay. I do not feel less loved because my kids do not want my stuff. And that we have a good relationship is the ultimate legacy I want to pass down, not my things. I also think that there is a space that we have to get into where my kids are not China people or quilt people.

Tonya Kubo (15:02)
Right.

Kathi (15:23)
or whatever it is, but there are those people out there who would love and appreciate those things. And so to find those people, it doesn’t have to be my child, but there are people who appreciate those quilts. There are people who appreciate milk glass. So find the people who will actually appreciate the things and…

Tonya Kubo (15:23)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (15:51)
You know, for the children who are out there who are like, I don’t want to keep the stuff. I don’t want to keep this stuff. May I gently suggest take some of the photographs, you know, take the photographs of you as a child, take the photographs of you with your parents and display a couple of those things that will be a signal to your parents about how much you appreciate them without having to have all the stuff in your household.

Tonya, for the kids who are listening, I would gently suggest having those conversations in small doses early and often and to let your parents know how much you love them without having to have this stuff. Did your mom try to put a lot of stuff on you, Tonya?

Tonya Kubo (16:47)
My mother was a hoarder. Of course she did.

Kathi (16:49)
Of course she did. How did you, in a hoarding situation, this will be my last question for you, in a hoarding situation, how do you have that conversation? And I know hoarders don’t receive those things well, but what was, yeah.

Tonya Kubo (17:05)
I was like, you can’t have that conversation. You just can’t. So it’s the same advice I give members of our community all the time. It’s like, you have to make a decision. You can say yes to everything to keep the peace and get rid of it on your end, however you choose to. Knowing full well they’re going to ask where it is every time they come to visit you all the time. They’re going to expect to see it, to visit it, just like it’s a museum. So that’s one choice. The other choice is to say no.

and have that conflict over and over and over again because it very rarely will not let like will not end in a conflicted conversation. Or you can go to your parents’ house and say I will go through it here and throw those items, donate those items in front of them, which you have to recognize will cause them extreme grief and extreme anxiety.

Kathi (17:58)
You had to make a rule with your mom that she couldn’t leave stuff at your house, right?

Tonya Kubo (18:02)
Exactly. Everything that she came with, she had to leave with. And that was hard because from her perspective, we had all of this space. Why were we so selfish with our space? We had a garage. We didn’t need to park our cars in the garage. We could store stuff that she wanted to leave there. We had closets. I had a car trunk. Why couldn’t my stuff, why couldn’t her stuff stay in my car trunk?

Kathi (18:12)
Yeah.

It’s a heartbreak, it really is. Fortunately, most of us don’t have to deal with a true hoarder. Most of us just have to have an awkward conversation and you can do it. But if you’re a parent, know that them taking or not taking your stuff is not a sign of how much they love you. It’s a sign of how well you’ve raised them to live with less and that’s a good thing.

Tonya Kubo (18:36)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (18:55)
Friends, you’ve been listening to Clutter Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter free life you’ve always wanted to live.

#671 – Sentimental Clutter: Finding Freedom in Letting Go

Kathi Lipp returns with Tonya Kubo and Tenneil Register to address a common challenge faced by those on the clutter-free journey: sentimental items. In this insightful episode, the trio tackles the emotional weight of inherited belongings and the guilt that often...

#670 – Emotional Decluttering: A Journey Through Sentimental Keepsakes

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp is joined by clutter experts Tonya Kubo and Tenneil Register for the second part of their heartfelt discussion on sentimental items. Discover the emotions that often lead us to hold onto things we neither love nor...

#669 – From Macaroni Necklaces to Masterpieces: A Guide to Decluttering and Organizing Kid Memorabilia

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp teams up with decluttering experts Tonya Kubo and Tenille Register to tackle one of the toughest challenges for parents—letting go of kids' sentimental items. Whether it’s a macaroni necklace or a monumental art...

#622 The Frugal Foodie’s Playbook: Mastering Meal Planning and Smart Shopping

by Clutter Free Academy Team | Jun 18, 2024 | Clutter Free, Clutter Free Podcast, Home, Kitchen, Mental Load, Podcast | 0 comments

Listen Now

622 The Frugal Foodie’s Playbook: Mastering Meal Planning and Smart Shopping

Hey there, friends! Are you feeling the pinch of rising food costs?

In this episode of Clutter Free Academy, Kathi Lipp, and Tonya Kubo tackle the timely issue of rising food costs and share practical tips to help listeners save money on groceries without sacrificing quality or taste. With their signature humor and relatable examples, Kathi and Tonya dive into strategies like meal planning, inventive use of leftovers, and tapping into community resources.

Listeners will discover:

How to create a pantry and fridge inventory to reduce food waste
The power of “loop meals” and repurposing leftovers
Tips for buying in bulk wisely

Whether you’re taking part in the Low Buy July challenge or simply looking to trim your grocery budget, this episode is packed with actionable advice and encouragement. Don’t miss out on these frugal food hacks that will help you nourish your family without breaking the bank!

Here are the 50 Breakfast and 50 Dinner Ideas mentioned in the episode.

Click here to be notified when the next episode of Clutter Free Academy is released.

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The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home

Homesteading [hohm-sted-ing]
noun
1. an act or instance of establishing a homestead.
2. the act of loving where you live so much that you actively ignore the fact that your house is trying to kill you on a regular basis.

For Kathi Lipp and her husband, Roger, buying a house in one of the most remote parts of Northern California was never part of the plan; many of life’s biggest, most rewarding adventures rarely are.

Kathi shares the hard-won wisdom she’s gained on her homestead journey to help you accomplish more at home, gain fresh perspective, and give yourself grace in the process. Here’s a handful of the lessons Kathi shares:

Prepare before the need arises
Everything is always in process, including us
Your best household solution is time and patience
You don’t have to do everything the hard way
Be open to new and better ways of doing things
A lot of small changes make a huge difference.
Highly practical, humorous, and inspirational, The Accidental Homesteader will encourage you to live with more peace, joy, and contentment.

Order your copy of The Accidental Homesteader: What I’ve Learned About Chickens, Compost, and Creating Home here.

Links Mentioned:

USDA FoodKeeper app

Clutter Free Resources:

Learn more about Clutter Free for Life

How do you reduce food waste or save money?

Share them the comments!

Let’s stay connected

To share your thoughts:

Leave a note in the comment section below.
Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.

Subscribe on iTunes or subscribe to our newsletter now.

Meet Our Guest

Tonya Kubo

Tonya Kubo is the illustrious and fearless leader of Kathi Lipp’s Clutter Free Academy Facebook group and the Clutter Free for Life membership program. A speaker and writer, Tonya makes her home in the heart of California with her husband, Brian, their two spirited daughters, and one very tolerant cat. Visit her at www.tonyakubo.com.

Transcript

Kathi (00:00)
Hey friends, welcome to clutter free Academy where our goal is to help you take small doable steps to live every day with less clutter and more life and I am here with the fabulous but exhausted Tonya Kubo. She was partying all weekend. She saw people get married there have been graduations I is this is this podcast the most relaxing thing you’ve done all week?

Tonya Kubo (00:24)
It most certainly is.

Kathi (00:28)
Yeah, I remember I canceled something on you on Monday. I’m like, I’m so sorry. So you’re like, thank you.

Tonya Kubo (00:31)
Yes! I was like, my gosh! I just got a whole hour back in my life.

Kathi (00:39)
I am currently not experiencing those kind of weeks, but I know they are yet to come because I have a book coming out in October. And with the the couple months before and the couple months after, it’s like, somebody canceled an appointment. You are my hero. And yeah, I want to sing like Mariah Carey. And yeah, it’s it’s. But, you know,

Tonya Kubo (00:44)
Ha.

Yeah.

Right.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Kathi (01:08)
not that we’re talking about that book, but we’re talking about some of the the feelings behind that book. That book is called Sabbath Soup and we are talking about food and if you turn on if you’re on social media at all, if you turn on the news, everybody is talking about the cost of food. It’s it’s I think in some.

Tonya Kubo (01:15)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (01:34)
Areas, it’s pretty much the same. Other areas, it feels insane. We are not at the egg crisis we were several months ago. And we still had chickens at that point and we’re very, very grateful for them. But you are not the primary shopper in your house, is that correct?

Tonya Kubo (01:37)
Mm -hmm. Right.

No, unless we’re shopping online. I will do all the shopping online, but usually Brian is the one who really likes to go to the grocery store because he likes to buy stuff. He doesn’t care what he buys. He just wants to buy the stuff.

Kathi (01:58)
Mmm.

isn’t that the, it’s such, it’s so true, right? Like I was telling somebody recently, like I get the same hit if I’m buying a dress at Nordstrom or a Costco chicken. Like I just like buying stuff, which I understand is my cluttery person like aching to get out.

Tonya Kubo (02:24)
Hahaha

Kathi (02:33)
And I have to tell you, I was so proud of Roger the other day because Roger is definitely like, he loves to buy convenience. He loves it. And the other day he was bringing home sandwiches. There were some circumstances and he was bringing home sandwiches. And he said, but we’ve got drinks and chips at home. And I’m like, my thrifty buddy. He goes, I’m learning. Cause I mean, you add drinks and chips to…

Tonya Kubo (02:41)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Kathi (03:02)
a sandwich order, that can be five or six dollars.

Tonya Kubo (03:04)
yeah. Mm hmm. yeah. No, there used to be a time when, you know, like iced tea, for instance, would be like a dollar cheaper than sodas. And now everything is $4 .50 or $5. Like each beverage is $4 .50 or $5 at the restaurants where we go.

Kathi (03:12)
Right? Yeah, nope.

Yeah, we rarely go to McDonald’s. I mean, rarely. But when we do, our order is always the same. It’s two Diet Cokes, an ice water, and a hamburger, a small hamburger patty, no salt. So half that order is for Moose because she gets the patty and the ice water. Ice water is her favorite treat. And she’s such a weird dog. And then we get the Diet Cokes because it’s…

Tonya Kubo (03:36)
Mmm.

Right?

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (03:50)
It can be $30 for us. And we’re not even talking about fast food today. We’re just talking about grocery shopping. And how can we keep the costs of all things groceries down? And you have kids. So let me just say that was not a cheap choice, Tonya Yeah, you’re going to need to.

Tonya Kubo (03:52)
Mm -hmm.

Right.

Mm -hmm.

No, it really wasn’t. It wasn’t. But I don’t think anybody has kids to save money. I don’t think that’s why you go into it.

Kathi (04:20)
I would love We’re gonna we’re gonna put our ideas here Tonya But when we do and you’re the queen of all things clutter free in the Facebook group I would love to get our our members ideas about this because we’re gonna share Approximately ten ideas on how you can save on your grocery budget, but I know the the the people in that group are

They’re geniuses. There is something about cluttery people and just the ways that they think differently that I just, I love and adore I love it so much.

Tonya Kubo (04:54)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

I agree, I agree. Well, and should we talk about what we’ve got going on in the group? Yeah, because I mean, part of why we’re talking about ways to buy less food today is because we’re doing things a little differently this year, is we are going into a challenge that’s in our Clutterfree Academy free Facebook group. Anybody can join that and also our Clutterfree for Life paid membership program. It’s a little crossover. We’re calling it Low Buy July.

Kathi (05:06)
Yeah, go for it. Tell us everything.

Yeah.

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (05:31)
And let me tell you, so there’s two reasons we’re calling it Low Buy July. If you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while, you remember that we oftentimes do No Buy July. There’s two problems with No Buy July. Problem number one is people have graduations and weddings and they think spending five cents automatically fails the challenge and they get very, very sad and very ashamed. Or they think they can’t replace their refrigerator that broke.

Right? And that’s not the intent of the challenge. The intent is really to minimize impulse purchases. But this year, Kathi you were the one who really pointed out that with the cost of things going up so high, people are not able to stock up like they once did. And so it’s unlikely that a lot of people have a full month’s worth of food in a freezer or in a pantry.

Kathi (06:15)
Mm -mm.

Right, right.

Tonya Kubo (06:23)
And so really we’re calling it low Buy July and we’re looking at how can we reduce our spending on all the things throughout the month. And I think food, at least in my family, Kathi, food is the highest percentage of our income outside of the mortgage. Like that, or I should say our expenses outside of the mortgage. That’s where we spend the most.

Kathi (06:26)
Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Of course, it makes total sense because you guys have four members in your family. You want them to be healthy people. And so, you know, you’re not just buying ramen for every meal because that is the cheapest way. And I know plenty of college kids who live that way. But we’re looking for a little bit higher quality of life than that. So we’re going to give you 10 tips.

Tonya Kubo (06:57)
Right.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (07:11)
That will not only reduce your grocery budget, but just keep you you It’s buying less food. That’s maybe it’s not consuming less food, but it’s it’s buying less food and I’m gonna give you my number one and Because I am the queen of buying what we already have and there’s a so for me having a day each week to clean out the fridge and just kind of

Tonya Kubo (07:18)
Mm -hmm.

Mmm.

Kathi (07:40)
Laying eyes on and seeing what we have. There’s a great tick tocker. He has a whole song go to the store by Hoonans sauce come home. no, we had Hoonans sauce go to the store, but like he has Six and if I’m pronouncing that incorrectly, please forgive me, but he has six Hoonans sauces and it’s like it’s that thing that you don’t know if you have it for sure so I

Tonya Kubo (07:57)
Mm -hmm.

Mm.

Kathi (08:10)
You don’t want to run out. And Roger did this for years with baby food, even when his kids were like in school. Like he was so terrified of running out of something they needed. And so doing that inventory is so critical and helps you save from buying things you don’t need to. You know, like this week, I’ve got some baby potatoes that.

Tonya Kubo (08:29)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (08:38)
Need you know something needs to happen with them. I’ve got some mushrooms. I’ve got some chicken that needs to get cooked like that that inventory helps me plan the rest of my meals and keeps me from wasting food and so if you can kind of there are a couple of ways to do it you can pick meals and then see what you have and then go shopping or you can see what you have plan meals around that and then go shopping so

In Low Buy July, I’m really going to challenge people to see what they have and what can you make with that.

Tonya Kubo (09:15)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (09:17)
I think that that’s going to be the best way to do it. Okay, Tonya what is your next tip that? Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (09:24)
Well, I think if your first tip, I just have to jump in because I’m so excited. Because if the first tip is inventory, fridge, freezer, pantry, then, and you touched on this a little bit, then the second tip has to be meal planning. And I think you made a really good point is that some people like to see what’s on sale and meal plan based on sales and then see what they have and then make their grocery list.

Kathi (09:33)
Mm -hmm.

Right.

Tonya Kubo (09:54)
I actually like to see what I have, just like you do, and meal plan based on what I have, because regardless of what’s on sale, I want to spend as little at the grocery store as possible. So if I can get away with just buying four things at the grocery store, and yes, please, I’ll pause for a moment so everybody can laugh, because no family of four ever gets to buy four things at the grocery store. But if I can get away…

Kathi (09:57)
Yes?

Right.

Tonya Kubo (10:19)
this week with just buying four things and then turning around and buying my normal 25 items next week, awesome. I think I’m so much further ahead than if I am consistently telling myself I have to have a big long shopping list every time I go to the store.

Kathi (10:35)
It’s so true, you know, and we have to figure out there are times when there may be nothing in the fridge and that’s okay. We can still figure out exactly, we can take that inventory, we can say, okay, you know what, I need to restock. There is no point in trying to build on this.

You know, you can’t build on celery and turnips. Like, that’s going to be the saddest soup ever. But I want you to say, okay, is there something in the freezer? Is there something I can defrost? Is there something that I can do in order to make this work so I am not having to buy everything all the time? Because I know that we can, it’s so frustrating to go buy the chicken and see the chicken in your…

Tonya Kubo (11:00)
Mm -hmm.

Right.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (11:30)
in your fridge or to sit and I don’t want you to have this giant back stock of freezer food so that you are not able to buy stuff. You know, it’s so I’ve done this so many times. I’m sorry, I’m getting tongue tied here, but like I’ll come home with stuff for the freezer because I don’t know what I have. And then I’m adding things to the freezer that I don’t actually need.

Tonya Kubo (11:40)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (12:00)
I run out of room in the freezer. It’s just, it’s a vicious cycle that I want to end and I wanna be smarter about. And I will say, I am so much better than I used to be, but it’s still something that I need to be cognizant of because when I feel like I’m running out of time, that’s where I get into trouble. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:05)
Mm -hmm.

Right. Well, anytime we feel desperate, I think, is problematic.

Kathi (12:28)
Yes, and I think especially when we’re running out of time or energy, that’s when we feel like, okay, I just need to make something happen. Okay, so number three, we’re getting into the planning space again, because I think planning is a big part of this. And so some people meal plan, like one of the things that’s been very helpful,

We’ll get this resource together because I know people have begged us for it. It was, I can’t remember if it was 30 or 50, but it was Meal Time Ideas.

Tonya Kubo (13:07)
Yes, yes, we have a breakfast one and a dinner one.

Kathi (13:11)
And I don’t know why we don’t have a lunch one, but you know what, maybe that is to come. But here’s the thing, I know when I sit down to meal plan, I can’t remember anything I’ve ever made at any point in my life ever. And I can’t think of a meal, I can’t think of an idea. And this is, this isn’t, you should make these 50 meals, otherwise you’re not a good cook. This is, check out these meals.

Tonya Kubo (13:39)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (13:39)
maybe they’ll springboard some ideas for you. So Tonya I know we have a lot of, what are your go -to meal ideas?

Tonya Kubo (13:49)
yeah, so we’re pretty simple in this house. So go to Meal Ideas for us. You know, when in doubt, Brian will oftentimes just do like pasta and a meat sauce, like if that’s available. Personally, you know, I prefer just some kind of meat and rice. And the reason I prefer that is because I can take that whatever vegetable we decide to serve with it, that gets to be repurposed into fried rice. And my family will eat

Kathi (14:17)
Mmm.

Tonya Kubo (14:18)
just about anything in the form of fried rice. So you know that like overcooked steak or the overcooked chicken, the vegetables that everybody thought were too soggy, I just chopped those up really fine, throw them in, make some fried rice and everybody’s happy.

Kathi (14:23)
yes.

Mm -hmm.

I love that so much. Okay, number four, Tanya. This is one of my favorite. Tell us a little bit about loop meals in your house.

Tonya Kubo (14:47)
yes, well I didn’t know that they were called that until I picked up your book. Let me remember, I always call it Six Chicks Freeze and Fix, but that is not what it’s called. Thank you, thank you. Kathi you may know me for 10 more years and you will still have to remind me that that is the name of the book. Yeah, but the idea of, I mean it’s two things, right? It’s first of all, cooking.

Kathi (14:56)
Yeah, it’s called the What’s for Dinner solution.

I am here for it, don’t you worry.

Tonya Kubo (15:14)
with the intention of having leftovers that you can repurpose. But also what I have found is I’ve just gotten good at recognizing what I can make with leftovers, right? It’s like, you know, we use the classic example of the rotisserie chicken, but I mean, like I cook chicken, like a whole chicken in my Instant Pot all the time, is taking that and going, yeah, we can eat, you know, chicken and potatoes and veggies tonight for dinner, but that gets to be turned into…

chicken enchilada casserole or tacos or chicken quesadillas or like I mentioned before, fried rice, because everything gets turned into fried rice around here. But those sorts of ideas are so helpful and it’s even led me to just pre -cooking certain things, like always having, you know, maybe like a quart size freezer bag of chopped up cooked chicken or ground ground meat. Having that…

Kathi (15:49)
Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (16:09)
Because don’t you think thawing the raw meat and cooking it is one of the longest, most planning intensive aspects of cooking?

Kathi (16:16)
Yes, and you have to hit it just right. That’s how it feels like. Yeah. Okay, so you know how you plan for leftovers and your go -to is fried rice? Mine has become quiche.

Tonya Kubo (16:20)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

okay.

Kathi (16:34)
So just always having a store -bought pie crust in the freezer. And you just mix up some eggs, some milk, some seasoning. And I had some leftover spinach and some cheese and some bacon. And Roger says it is the best quiche he’s ever had. And.

Tonya Kubo (16:39)
Okay.

Mm -hmm.

So can I tell you Lily’s favorite thing on the quiche front that I recently did? So I had ground beef and I’d read something like Pinterest or whatever, right? So it was like ground beef. And then I took eggs, a little touch of cream, because we keep heavy cream in the house, and Parmesan cheese, mixed that all up, threw that in an eight by eight, baked it, like 350 for like 25 minutes. And Lily was like, this is the yummiest breakfast casserole ever.

Kathi (16:56)
Yes, do tell.

Nice.

There you go. We’re making miracles here for our family, Tonya Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (17:27)
I’m telling you Parmesan cheese, it’s like, it cures all the things.

Kathi (17:31)
Okay, we’re gonna come back. We’re gonna come to number five, which I’m really, really excited about. And when we do, we’re just gonna take a quick break. And then we’re gonna talk about something I’ve just started to do recently, that has been a game changer for us. So we’ll, I’ll tell you my secret when we come back. Okay, we are back. And we’re talking about how do you reduce the amount of food that you’re buying?

So number five for me is, I’m just gonna call it a vegetable chop. And in the summer, the vegetable chop for me is cucumbers, tomatoes, and red onions. And you may be like, okay, well how does that save money? It saves money because I use it all up. I use it all up, and I use it in a million different ways. I use it.

Tonya Kubo (18:06)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Kathi (18:26)
just as a salad just on its own like that. I’ll put some Italian dressing on it or balsamic dressing on it. Add in some salt and pepper, maybe a little bit of feta cheese. Delightful. The other day I took some of that that had been marinating already in that balsamic vinaigrette and I threw it on top of a salad and put some croutons, I put it on top of romaine lettuce and it was delightful.

I also use it as kind of a bruschetta. You know, you can can that on top of toasted bread. There are a million things you can do with it and it is delicious every time. Now in the winter, I do the same thing, but I do it with celery, carrots, and onions. And you know, that can go into a casserole after it’s been sauteed. There are a million things that can be done with it and it’s delicious.

Okay, Tanya, take us to number six.

Tonya Kubo (19:27)
All right, so I think number six, I believe it’s very important to own your privilege in things. And so number six probably works best if you have older kids in the house or if it’s all adults versus having littles. But my idea for spending less on food is having your on your own nights, right? So we call them like Y -O -Y -O, like yo -yo nights.

Kathi (19:56)
You’re on your own, baby.

Tonya Kubo (19:57)
Right. Because the thing is, is you get to decide what you want to have for dinner. Toddlers don’t always make great decisions that help to save money, but older kids do. And so I think this works out really well for those nights when you have like enough of something for one person or maybe like as a side to something else.

Kathi (20:19)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (20:22)
And so everybody gets to go through the fridge, look at the leftovers and just decide what they’re having and then fill in the gaps with whatever they want. Abbey loves to make her own lunchable, otherwise known as charcuterie, right? So she’ll do crackers, cheese and salami and some fruit and she’s super happy. Lily likes to have that too, but Lily’s also somebody who doesn’t mind eating leftover spaghetti and fried rice in the same plate.

Kathi (20:33)
Right?

Right, right. And you know, when my kids were younger, we did these with, they were plastic trays that looked like TV trays, like TV dinner trays. And yeah, you know, that’s tonight’s dinner for us is you’re on your own because we had a fig, fig jam and brie burgers last night that were delicious. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (20:54)
Okay. Yeah.

Yum. That’s the yummiest leftover ever.

Kathi (21:12)
Right. And so we still have one of the half of one of those burgers left. I’ve got some I made some macaroni salad. But my mom and I have leftovers from a restaurant we went to. So we’re just going to be we’re going to be you know, not every meal has to have, you know, a main a veg and a side like sometimes you can just say, Hey, I need a night off or it’s too hot to cook. Let’s

Let’s make some wise decisions here and use up what we have. And this has become very important to us since we don’t have chickens currently because we’re not throwing anything to them. So yes. OK, number seven. And here is a, there’s a big old asterisk next to this, but I just want to talk about buying in bulk. Now,

Tonya Kubo (21:44)
Mm -hmm. Exactly.

Kathi (22:06)
I will tell you, you know, Roger is to baby food as Kathi is to Costco. Why was I continuing to buy huge containers of things when it was just me and Roger? You know, so I’ve had to dial back on this, but there are still some things that we go through pretty regularly.

Tonya Kubo (22:12)
Okay.

Kathi (22:30)
One convenient, I’m just gonna call it a convenience food that we love, is these little bowls of rice that are pre -packaged. You just peel them off and you put them in the microwave, I think for 90 seconds and you’re good to go. Now, I could make a whole big batch of rice. I could, you know what? I’m gonna buy a little convenience and I’m okay with that.

Tonya Kubo (22:39)
Mmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (22:56)
We actually, you know, we go through a lot of flour at our house. We go through, I’m trying to think of the things we go through that we buy in large portions. And it’s okay. It’s okay that we do that. But don’t be buying things at Costco just because it’s a deal and then not use them.

Tonya Kubo (23:20)
Yes, I think that’s the important part. We do, I think we just get into these habits where we’re used to buying a certain amount of an item.

at a certain frequency and when something changes the frequency or even when we go on vacation for a week or two if we don’t manage the quantity in which we buy things start to back up really really fast.

Kathi (23:30)
Yes.

Yes.

Well, and let’s just also say the people in our family, you know, if only they would do the same thing this week that they did last week. Right? You know, last week they couldn’t eat enough bananas. This week, bananas are gross, mom.

Tonya Kubo (23:50)
truth.

Yes, yes, and we ruined their lives by buying bananas.

Kathi (24:02)
my goodness, isn’t that the truth? Okay, we’re closing in. Tonya number eight.

Tonya Kubo (24:10)
number eight is using an app to track your food expiration dates. And I know that this is something that you taught me about because I would never do this. I eat and cook things unless they smell funny or look funny.

Kathi (24:24)
Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (24:25)
because that’s the kind of house I grew up in. But of course, you know, Brian, he’s the king of the Serve Safe certificates. He does not want to eat anything if it’s like more than a day past its code and more than three days in the fridge. So the USDA, Kathi, and I don’t have it handy, so I’m hoping we can put this in the show notes, but the USDA has an app that will help you track expiration dates. And I think that prevents people from throwing food away.

Kathi (24:50)
It’s.

Tonya Kubo (24:56)
that they don’t need to throw away.

Kathi (24:58)
Yes, it’s so true. I, I, who’s the itchy trigger finger in your household? Is it? No, it’s Brian. Yeah, it’s totally Brian In my house. It’s Roger. Now, like, he wants to if the milk expires on June 10, he wants to throw it away on June 9, just to be sure. And I’m like, I will murder you in your sleep. Like,

Tonya Kubo (25:05)
Yeah, it’s totally bright.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah. Well, and the thing with milk is temperature affects milk so much. I mean, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve opened up a jug of milk five days before the expiration date and it is sour and curdled and makes me want to move houses. And then there’s other times where it’s like four days past the date and it’s perfectly fine.

Kathi (25:40)
Right.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. You know, you can smell milk. It will let you know when it’s time to go. It will let you know. Yeah, it’s no, no, no, they they let you know right up front. Exactly. Okay, number nine, which is not a solution for everybody. But I do think it’s a solution for many of us is grow. If you’re not going to grow fruits or vegetables, which I totally understand, at

Tonya Kubo (25:52)
Milk and eggs will not trick you at all.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (26:13)
try growing your own herbs. You know, and it’s, they make it so convenient. It’s less expensive oftentimes to go buy that basil plant at Home Depot than it is to buy that little sprig of basil at the grocery store. And if you just put it in the pot and you pay attention to it maybe once a week, you’re gonna be good to go. And so I love…

growing my own herbs for basil, oregano, chives, green onions. Now we also do tomatoes and things like that, but it is so easy to grow those herbs. And if you forget about it, don’t go to the store and buy more herbs, go to Home Depot. It’s often gonna be cheaper for you to do that. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (27:06)
Mmm.

Kathi (27:10)
and Tanya, bring us home with number 10.

Tonya Kubo (27:12)
All right, so number 10 is one of those things where I feel like people have a stigma, Kathi. So I would like for us to destigmatize the use of public resources for saving food costs. So for instance, obviously, like there’s a food bank, right? So and people have a lot of opinions about food banks, but you would be surprised at how

Kathi (27:18)
Mm -hmm.

Let’s do it.

Yeah.

Right.

Lots of big feelings.

Tonya Kubo (27:40)
lenient the standards are for who qualifies to go to a food bank and who doesn’t. But beyond a food bank, we have this really cool thing in my town. And I know you’ve got some similar programs near where you’re at. But we have a community garden. They call it the People’s Garden. And there’s what they call the People’s Pantry and the People’s Fridge. So what these were. So you’ve got the community garden, you know, you donate so many hours per week to tending the garden and then you get a share.

Kathi (27:56)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (28:10)
of what is produced in that garden. But anybody who has extra stuff in their home, extra rice, extra dried beans, you can then donate it to the people’s pantry or the people’s fridge if it’s perishable, say eggs for instance. And then anybody can go there and just grab, there’s no sign in, sign out or anything, you just open the fridge. If there’s some stuff in there that you would use, you get to just take that home with you, the same with the pantry. But it’s this amazing collaborative sort of cooperative environment.

Kathi (28:22)
Mm -hmm.

Tonya Kubo (28:38)
that really helps a lot of folks just make it to the end of the month or make it when there’s a little bit more month than money.

Kathi (28:45)
You know, and I want to talk about this from both sides because I have lived on both sides of this where we have donated a lot to food pantries. We do it through our church pretty regularly, especially they want canned tomatoes, you know, whether whatever kind of variation of canned tomatoes. I’m like, I can always give up some of my canned tomatoes. But I was on the other side of this where I was a single mom living below the poverty line.

Tonya Kubo (29:03)
Yeah.

Kathi (29:14)
Why did I not take advantage of this? I think it was embarrassment, it was shame. And today, if I needed to, I would 100 % take advantage of that. I feel it’s a lot like when I go to my mom’s house and they have extra figs Like, you know.

Tonya Kubo (29:33)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:34)
I’m going to take the figs because otherwise it’s going to go bad. Now we don’t currently participate in shopping at a food pantry, but it would be my first suggestion for anybody who’s struggling. And you are not, you are, the food pantry knows what they have. They know who they are able to help.

Tonya Kubo (29:55)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (29:59)
And you just have to ask, they all have websites, you can go and check it out. They have ways of doing it. I follow a couple of people on TikTok who go to food pantries. You can use AI to help you plan some meals then if you’re not sure what, because oftentimes you’ll get things in a food pantry that maybe you’ve never used before. And that’s okay, you know, this will expand what you’re able to do with your cooking and your repertoire. But I think it’s really important.

Tonya Kubo (30:19)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (30:28)
to take advantage of these kind of programs, especially if you are struggling financially right now. There are also gleaning programs where if you go and you help pick fruit or you help pick vegetables, you can take a portion of those home. Depending on your abilities, that’s a really great way. So I think a good place to find some of these things are in your local buy nothing group, your community groups.

Tonya Kubo (30:35)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kathi (30:56)
There are Reddit pages for different communities and what’s available. Tonya, how do you find out about things in your community?

Tonya Kubo (31:06)
Well, you know, I’m lucky enough to be pretty plugged in, but like you said, but I mean, really is like almost every community has their own like Facebook group or, you know, neighborhood community, like my own neighborhood, you know, we have a group me, but those sorts of resources and when in doubt, just ask someone. And I do want to go back to just this idea of stigma around.

Kathi (31:09)
I was just gonna say you’re the most community plugged in person I know.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (31:35)
any sort of food support system, whether it’s a food bank or sometimes farmers markets have special programs. Like if you come like at the farmers market when it closes, you know, a lot of the farmers will let you have what they have on hand is I think one thing that stops a lot of people isn’t necessarily shame, but an assumption that somebody else needs it more than they do, which I love because our cluttery people have the most generous hearts out there. But I just want to say,

Kathi (31:46)
Yeah. Right.

Yes.

Mm -hmm, yes.

Tonya Kubo (32:03)
It is perfectly okay for you to prioritize your own needs and get the help that you need and trust that the organizations that provide these sorts of support services, like you said, Kathi, they know their capacity.

Kathi (32:08)
Mm -hmm.

Yes, and two more things I want to mention that maybe you just need that support for a couple of months. Maybe you’re going through a tough time and you know funds are lean, you’ve got medical bills, you’ve got it’s the beginning of school. Take advantage. Another thought is there are lots of community programs.

for children and senior citizens. California just did a $40 a month thing for kids who are on lunch programs. And then in our community, Monday through Friday, except for on holidays, there’s a senior lunch.

Tonya Kubo (32:43)
Mm -hmm.

Kathi (33:00)
And Roger will proudly tell you that he is old enough to take advantage of that now. We have not availed ourselves of those services yet. But you know what? I think that there’s something really important there. Sometimes it’s not just about the food, it’s also about the community. And if you feel embarrassed to say, hey, is there a way I could help? Could I come and clean up? Could I come and serve food? If you’re able -bodied, those are things that you can do.

Tonya Kubo (33:05)
Nice.

Kathi (33:29)
Tonya, this is such a information packed thing. I’m sorry, we’ve had construction going on around our house and a barking dog. And I apologize if I seemed a little off my game, but the information is solid, I promise. So thanks for hanging with us. You’ve been listening to Clutter -Free Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go create the clutter -free life you’ve always wanted to live.

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